December 2011 - openSUSE Project - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse-project] talk at or visit Linux Open Administration Days
by Jos Poortvliet 12 Apr '12

12 Apr '12

Hi all, April 16-17 in Antwerp, Belgium, the Linux Open Administration Days will take place. This free event offers a chance for LPI certification as well as meeting and talking to linux sysadmins. There is a call for presentations here: http://www.loadays.org/content/call-presentations If you want to go and give a talk there about openSUSE tech - that's be awesome. If you can't afford to go there due to travel or hotel costs, let me know, we might be able to work something out ;-) cheers, Jos

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Re: [opensuse-gnome] Re: [opensuse-project] stupid 12.1
by Albert 18 Jan '12

18 Jan '12

Let's pay attention to other daily people comments from https://features.opensuse.org/312946 > "It is like Gnome Desktop Environment developers are now working against Linux... > Pure Gnome3 is just a BIG & major regress on Linux desktop, it makes Linux desktop productivity more difficult and bring useless features. Even the bars are frozen, you cannot interact, neither visual customize or configure anything. > The only Linux Mint & Mate bring some hope... I have installed open SUSE just because Linux Mint 12 have some installation bugs on HP d530 desktop, if no Mate repo I will leave open SUSE." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] RFC - opensuse steering committee ?
by Per Jessen 16 Jan '12

16 Jan '12

Apologies for the continued abuse of a much abused acronym, but a recent long-winded debate on opensuse-factory made me think that perhaps the opensuse project could do with a steering committee? I have not thought much about it, I would appreciate any and all opinions. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Taking care of #opensuse-es
by Javier Llorente 11 Jan '12

11 Jan '12

Hello everyone! Unfortunately, nobody has been taking care of the #opensuse-es IRC channel in Freenode for a long time. Ask ChanServ for info ;-) I propose giving the appropriate OP rights to an openSUSE channel maintainer in general (perhaps darix?) so that this kind of situation doesn't happen again, plus three or four long time contributors/active #opensuse-es users, such as: karlggest (long time contributor, he isn't always online, already forum moderator) SkavenXXI (long time contributor, always online in #opensuse-es) davmont (long time contributor, already forum moderator) javier (me, long time contributor, always online in #opensuse-es) Greetings, -- Javier Llorente

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[opensuse-project] Signing repos
by Administrator 07 Jan '12

07 Jan '12

Hi openSUSE people, I'm not an openSUSE member (I don't do software development any more) but would like to get fixed a serious security flaw: there is no way to check the validity of a repository / build signing key. [You are welcome to correct me if I'm wrong - I'd love to know how to check this] I would suggest that, as a minimum, signing / build keys for main repos associated with openSUSE are signed by a main openSUSE key after (in some fashion) the requester's identity is verified. We can then (individually) decide to trust that signing process (and hence the signatures) or not. There would have to be a clear statement of both the identity verification process and also the full extent of the assurance this signature gives. I would suggest there should also be some kind of quality threshold (e.g. bug fix statistics) as well as a method to revoke the key / signature. Or, does one of the openSUSE security experts have a better simple suggestion? What would I need to do to effect this change? Any advice or comment is very welcome, Yours David Hodgson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-gnome] Re: [opensuse-project] stupid 12.1
by Albert 02 Jan '12

02 Jan '12

>>>> 2. When I switch to gnome2-like environment, I am getting very angry. >>>> How can SUSE become as stupid as Ubuntu? The gnome2-like environment is >>>> almost the same as Ubuntu..... The menu, the task bar color and so on. >>>> Why can't SUSE keep its own uniques? The SUSE menu in 10.0 till 11.4 is >>>> quit nice and creative. Why did this 12.1 switch to stupid Ubuntu like >>>> style? >>> This has nothing to do with Ubuntu: the default look and feel of the >>> fallback mode has been created so that it is close to GNOME Shell. >>> >>> We discussed if, for openSUSE, we wanted to keep that upstream decision, >>> or choose to offer something closer to what we had before. And because >>> we want to encourage people to use GNOME Shell, we decided to keep >>> things this way. > > Why do you encourage people to use GNOME SHELL? Is it more convenient or more beautiful to use it? At present, I found no reasons to switch to it. It is far behind GNOME2.X. As a Linux user and a professional design purpose user, I care more about the STABILITY and friendly interface. To me, the GNOME SHELL is much more suitable for tablet and entertainment, but not for ordinary daily work such as: office or computational work. >> >> > > >>>> 3. What's worse. The workspace switcher in gnome2-like environment is >>>> the same as 10.0 version: when we use "only show current workspace", it >>>> can only show ONE workspace, and others are all gone...... >>> I just started the livecd to check, and things are fine here. Can you >>> open the preferences of the workspace switcher, and tell us if you see >>> this because there's only one workspace, or because the "only show >>> current workspace" setting is set? Is this on a brand new install, on >>> first login? > > I update 12.1 to the latest version by command: zypper update after installation. And the problem is always there. >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Vincent >>> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: RFC - opensuse steering committee ?
by Kim Leyendecker 30 Dec '11

30 Dec '11

Sorry, my Mail was just sent to jdd, damn k9 Mail again.... Kim Leyendecker <leyendecker(a)opensuse.org> schrieb: > > > > >jdd <jdd(a)dodin.org> wrote: > >>Le 30/12/2011 23:52, Greg Freemyer a écrit : >> >>> On the technical side, vetos definitely exist, and they exist now. >>> >>> The Release Manager (Coolo) ultimately decides what goes into >>> openSUSE. ie. The Release Manager has veto power. >> >>I challenge this. yet Coolo have some power on paid suse people. >> >>> >>> eg. If I decided I wanted to submit a patch to change grub to grub2, >>> it has to be accepted. And in the current setup that basically >means >>> Coolo has to accept it. (or veto it). >> >>if you where the only maintainer of grub and decided to stop it, I >>don't see what coolo could do. >> >>> >>> I have no issue with that reality. Coolo does a great job from what >>I >>> can tell. But to claim he doesn't have that power is to be blind to >>> reality. >> >>your overestimate his power. I'm pretty sure one of his higher quality > >>is diplomacy :-). I'm very admirative about him :-! Of course His >>advice have weight. >> > >Yes, he's a great diplomate, but a sc is also important when there >occurs a "fight" between progressives and clnservatives. These >discussions are often very offending and sometimes more subjective then >anything other. Here a sc has to intervene and negioate as a fair >Balance between both parties > >I guess that's the reason why per (and also i) wants to have such a sc. > > > >>> I see this a maturing of the community. For now I am very happy >with >>> the way things work, but what if one of the other sponsors wanted to >>> have more say so at the steering committee level. How would that be >>> addressed? >> >>hiring developpers. Even users can do that if they are enough >> >>The release manager have power when he have a real choice, yes, and >>it's important. But real choice is not that often in the opensource >>world >> >>jdd >> >> >>-- >>http://www.dodin.net >>-- >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >>To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org > >-- >Kim Leyendecker >sent from smartphone >sorry for my briefity -- Kim Leyendecker sent from smartphone sorry for my briefity -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE in 2011
by Kim Leyendecker 30 Dec '11

30 Dec '11

Howdy all, Since major TV stations are broadcasting there crappy annual reviews, we might should also release one. 2011 was a great year for openSUSE! Two totally awesome releases, a new owner, osc11, 20 years of Linux, first distro to ship LibreOffice many new ambassadors and contributors etc. *How it should look like?* I actually think about an article on news.o.o, I don´t know how far our schedule is rebuild, since ietherpad crashed down and lost all data. So, the annual review might would have the whole road. *What the community have to do?* Well, speak up and give your comments. The more voices, the better! The best way is to create a wiki page where everyone can put down her or his opinion of the last year from an openSUSE point of view. *When should it be published?* I would suggest to do it still in 2011. So, we have to do it quickly. happy holidays, -- Kim Leyendecker, openSUSE Wiki Team GPG Key: 664265369547B825 | leyendecker(a)opensuse.org http://www.opensuse.org - Linux for open minds -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Re: openSUSE currently has a 3-tier system officially
by Per Jessen 29 Dec '11

29 Dec '11

Greg Freemyer wrote: > openSUSE currently has a 3-tier system officially; > > Board > members > users > > Unofficially it has: > > project management (Coolo, etc.) > developers > other contributors > non-contributors > > The board seems to stay out of technical decisions, and the members > only vote on the very occasional item. (ie. The members voted on the > overall strategy recently.) I have recently begun to think this is was only a clever ploy to occupy the project members with something largely inconsequential. Those of us who occupied ourselves with debating/proposing/refining the strategy neglected to consider the one key thing - to implement a strategy one needs ownership and leadership, something we do not have. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] [reminder] openSUSE Project Meeting tomorrow at 18:00 UTC
by openSUSE Meeting Reminder 27 Dec '11

27 Dec '11

Hello all, The biweekly project meeting will be held tomorrow at 18:00 UTC in #opensuse-project on freenode. Everybody is invited to join and participate! Find out what time the meeting will be in your timezone: http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=28&month=12&year=2011&… Agenda of the meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Project_meeting#Agenda_for_the_next_meeting If you cannot participate and want a specific question to be answered during the meeting, please add your question to: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Project_meeting#Questions_Section Minutes and logs of previous meetings can be found at: http://community.opensuse.org/meetings/opensuse-project/ Thanks, -- openSUSE Meeting Reminder -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] [boosters] Work Report - Max Lin - Week 51
by Max Lin 26 Dec '11

26 Dec '11

[Red] [Amber] [Green] * openSUSE/KDE Bug triaging * Upstream code tracing * Misc - 1 day off -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Use of mail message Subject
by Rajko M. 26 Dec '11

26 Dec '11

It seems that reading a Subject line in a email message is not the virtue of openSUSE mail lists users. Gentleman comes and tells in a subject line: "******** openSUSE" Replace ******** with your favorite curse, and openSUSE with 12.1, KDE, GNOME etc, and we have huge discussions, that are all archived and searched by search engines, spiders, info harvesters and supplied to unsuspected users. Nice is that we are trying to persuade apparently angry user (or just smart troll - you never know), wich is noble act from openSUSE perspective. Not so nice is that no one comes on idea to change subject, so we multiply that subject for 50, 100 times, shooting ourselves in the foot. Look from Google perspective and you will understand why I think that it is a bad practice not to change provocative subjects as soon as ******** is not valid, and that would be the next post, or at most the one after. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [opensuse-gnome] Re: stupid 12.1
by Adam Tauno Williams 24 Dec '11

24 Dec '11

"Carlos E. R." <carlos.e.r(a)opensuse.org> wrote: >On 2011-12-23 19:44, Jim Henderson wrote: >> On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 02:44:21 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote: >> Well, like I said, it's a good thing there are options, then, isn't >it? >It doesn't speak well of gnome if people that have been using it for a >more >than a decade have to migrate. Been using GNOME for ages, and still using it. There will always be people migrating from one thing to another thing so long as there qre multiple things in ("the cloud" will probably do its best to eliminate that "problem") >Some programs I don't know the calling name. You rarely need to know the actual name of an application to find it; just enter something related like "music" > And others I have to use >long >lines with options. Here (G2) I have an applet that shows a list of the >previously used commands. The exists in shell, Alt-F2. The integrated command line supports history. >>> I also like an applet with the hour and the temperature, of several >>> cities. Now I can't. >> I would like that, yes. But it's not a necessity for me to do my >work. >> In fact, I find that without that, I spend less time wondering about >> stuff like that and tend to be more focused on what I'm actually >working >> on. I'm more productive. +1 +1 +1 +1 I've seen this same complaint on the shell list sooooo many times. If that rises to the level of a significant complaint than I take it as proof the software is *AWESOME*. >> In G3, workspaces are dynamic. Drag a window to an empty workspace, >and >> a new one opens up. I *really* like that. +1 >Yes, that's a good feature. But I can not order them in a matrix with >rows >and columns, as I do in G2. I haven't seen anyone explain WHY the layout of the workspaces matters. So a strip vs. a list; why does it matter? [this setting aside the idea that a human can effectively multitask 12 tasks; which is not possible] -- Adam Tauno Williams -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-gnome] Re: [opensuse-project] stupid 12.1
by Richard Brown 23 Dec '11

23 Dec '11

Carlos, Have you seen the (rather extensive) help library that is installed by default in our gnome 3 installation? You can find it in the applications list It's called Help Covers a lot of the information on the websites Adam has suggested, and more, and should be translated for whichever language you have on your install Hope this helps >>> "Carlos E. R." 12/22/11 10:33 PM >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-12-22 22:59, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > On Thu, 2011-12-22 at 22:44 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote: >> On 2011-12-22 22:23, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: >> Gnome 3 should put and advert on first use on how/where to find help for >> use of the new interface, not expect me to find everything by trial and >> errors or asking in mail lists or forums. > > Seriously? Seriously?! I think you're trolling. Absolutely. And you insulting. > How hard is that to find - and one of the links > is "Discover GNOME3" You can kick back > and watch the videos! My laptop (the only machine that has G3 now) has no internet all the time. Why should I? Help should be local. I never browsed the Microsoft site to know how to use Windows, there is a local help system. I never needed to go to the gnome site to learn how to use G2, it was intuitive. On G3 F1 does nothing. Videos are in English. What if I don't speak fluent English? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7zsDgACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XzYwCgixk/gKpWQ3T5MKGH6nUMdpQr 2fcAnjKqFiwidXfs6rRMpaQDQoRGTkBl =pmDQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org This Christmas, why not provide a loved one with the perfect opportunity to learn a new skill, make new friends, earn a qualification that could lead to a change in career or impress their current employers? City College Gift Vouchers, redeemable against any of our exciting range of Part-time and Adult Community Learning courses, are available at the Finance Department, 2nd Floor, Central Campus, Pelham Street, Brighton. www.ccb.ac.uk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] stupid 12.1
by Richard Brown 23 Dec '11

23 Dec '11

Hi Albert, As your email focuses very much on gnome, I'm CC'ing this reply to the opensuse-gnome mailinglist so my fellow gnomers can read your feedback. 1. Differences: In my opinion, the responsibility of a project like ours, producing Linux distributions, is to provide a solid, stable, integrated collection of current/cutting edge FOSS software, tweaked and tuned for our users. We shouldn't be changing things just for the sake of changing things. I believe, our implementation of GNOME 3 improves on the current status of the upstream project. It's good to start with, but we made a number of improvements that you don't find in other GNOME3's - For example the Shutdown menu was changed to make Power Off/Restarting and Hibernation easier to access. We install the gnome-tweak-tool by default, and YaST is smoothly integrated into the System Settings Yes, we could do more, we on the openSUSE gnome team are always looking for new ideas and new people to help out implementing them. It's easy, and if you're interested in helping out, please join the opensuse-gnome mailing list and/or #opensuse-gnome IRC channel and say hello 2. gnome2-like environment This is actually called 'fallback mode' It's intended to provide a basic, working environment for when 3D acceleration is not available. As you've noticed, it currently looks like 'vanilla' gnome2, but it is not really intended as an alternative to the gnome-shell mode for those who don't like it - there are efforts to get gnome-shell working without 3D acceleration, and I would not be surprised if fallback mode disappears if these efforts bear fruit. Again, offering my opinion - I personally believe it would be stupid for SUSE/openSUSE to throw good development time behind an effort to enhance fallback mode when it is clearly not the direction of upstream GNOME That said, I do know there was someone working on porting the SLAB menu to gtk3 so it could work in fallback mode And you might be interested in http://extensions.gnome.org - a recently launched service from upstream GNOME that provides a large collection of gnome shell extensions that let you customise the gnome3 environment (not fallback mode). Several of the extensions provide features and functionality which used to be in gnome2. 3. Progress GNOME 3 is progress. gnome-shell is a very different desktop environment, and your certainly not the first to express their dislike for it - but if you want a traditional taskbar/start menu orientated environment, there are great alternatives out there (KDE, xfce, lxde) all supported by openSUSE - we're a distro of choice for precisely this kind of scenario. But please keep in mind that there are also many keen users and keen developers spending a lot of time on GNOME 3. I don't think calling our chosen desktop environment and efforts to improve it 'stupid' is a very productive way forward. Helping out in our gnome team with constructive ideas (you don't need to be a developer for that) or packaging and code would be a much bigger help. So if you truly are a SUSE lover and want our gnome installation to better suit your tastes, I look forward to seeing your contributions soon :) Regards A fellow SUSE lover >>> Albert 12/21/11 10:00 AM >>> I've used SUSE for more than six years and each new version coming out always give me surprising more or less. However, I found the most recent 12.1 is really disappointed, especially the gnome desktop: 1. I don't find any difference and surprise with this gnome3 while comparing with other linux distribution. 2. When I switch to gnome2-like environment, I am getting very angry. How can SUSE become as stupid as Ubuntu? The gnome2-like environment is almost the same as Ubuntu..... The menu, the task bar color and so on. Why can't SUSE keep its own uniques? The SUSE menu in 10.0 till 11.4 is quit nice and creative. Why did this 12.1 switch to stupid Ubuntu like style? 3. What's worse. The workspace switcher in gnome2-like environment is the same as 10.0 version: when we use "only show current workspace", it can only show ONE workspace, and others are all gone...... 12.1, Progress or backwards? To be honest as a Linux user, the stupid gnome3 don't have even a little tinny tiny attraction to me. I do hope the SUSE developer can design SUSE from the aspects of users. If I were a SUSE developer, I will pay more attention to the stability and general interface of SUSE. May SUSE a bright future. A SUSE Lover -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org This Christmas, why not provide a loved one with the perfect opportunity to learn a new skill, make new friends, earn a qualification that could lead to a change in career or impress their current employers? City College Gift Vouchers, redeemable against any of our exciting range of Part-time and Adult Community Learning courses, are available at the Finance Department, 2nd Floor, Central Campus, Pelham Street, Brighton. www.ccb.ac.uk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-gnome] Re: [opensuse-project] stupid 12.1
by Adam Tauno Williams 22 Dec '11

22 Dec '11

On Thu, 2011-12-22 at 12:28 +0100, Albert wrote: > Let's pay attention to other daily people comments from > https://features.opensuse.org/312946 > "It is like Gnome Desktop Environment developers are now working > against Linux... > Pure Gnome3 is just a BIG & major regress on Linux desktop, it makes > Linux desktop productivity more difficult and bring useless features. Hmmm, I read that as "GNOM3 is a big & major step forward for the Linux desktop, it makes desktop productivity more efficient and adds compelling new features". Wierd. > Even the bars are frozen, you cannot interact, neither visual > customize or configure anything. Seems extremely customizable to me. And I don't see any 'frozen' bars; there is just one clean bar at the top which provides lots of functionality. Fire up gnome-tweak-tool and extensions.gnome.org and off I go... > The only Linux Mint & Mate bring some hope... Sure, they can "hope" to be more awesome than openSUSE. Just keep trying guys. :) > I have installed open SUSE just because Linux Mint 12 have some > installation bugs on HP d530 desktop, openSUSE works great on both by HP laptop and HP workstation. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] stupid 12.1
by Richard Brown 22 Dec '11

22 Dec '11

>>> Albert 12/22/11 11:52 AM >>> > I really don't understand when something is already good >enough, why not try to keep it or make it perfect. Traditional taskbar+start menu desktop environments are well catered for in the Linux ecosystem. KDE is great, xfce and lxde also. If you only interest is in 'good enough', and you find that GNOME3 isn't good enough for your use case, then please, feel free to experiment with those other environments - openSUSE is a distro that likes its users to pick and choose (and if it's contributors decide to add something like MATE into the mix, and put the work behind it to make it a viable option, good for them and good for the distro) Or alternatively, quit your belly-aching and actually provide the gnome team with some constructive critique and we might actually be able to help make gnome3 better for you and anyone else who feels like you. > To me, the GNOME SHELL is just the rubbish derivate of iOS . Why did >people always follow a dead body and admire him as the God of world? Why >CANN'T us be another Steve Jobs and create something new or make good >things better. Gnome 3 is not derivative of iOS, nor is it rubbish, nor stupid, nor any of the other disparaging terms you continue to use despite my request you be nice In fact, it IS exactly what you are asking for, and attempt by the GNOME project to "create something new" - a desktop environment that removes as many distractions as possible from the user while still retaining full desktop capabilities. Have you actually used gnome-shell for any serious period of time? I'm getting a growing impression you have a number of very serious misconceptions about the interface, it's intended goals, and the realities of using it. Regards Richard On 12/22/2011 11:50 AM, C wrote: > On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 11:32, Carlos E. R. wrote: >> On 2011-12-22 10:54, C wrote: >>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 10:38, Albert wrote: >>>> For the interface itself, why not provide an option during installtion for >>>> user to choose GNOME2.X or GNOME3.X? >>> The simple answer to this is... Gnome2.x is no longer developed, no >>> longer supported, and deprecated. It's no longer an option. openSUSE >> https://features.opensuse.org/312946 >> Mate repo for openSUSE > The description of MATE (from their own readme) makes me laugh.... > > "MATE Desktop Environment, a non-intuitive and unattractive desktop > for users, using traditional computing desktop metaphor." > > MATE is not Gnome2... so my comment still stands Gnome2 is museum > fodder now. > > I hope that MATE is a successful project. > > C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org This Christmas, why not provide a loved one with the perfect opportunity to learn a new skill, make new friends, earn a qualification that could lead to a change in career or impress their current employers? City College Gift Vouchers, redeemable against any of our exciting range of Part-time and Adult Community Learning courses, are available at the Finance Department, 2nd Floor, Central Campus, Pelham Street, Brighton. www.ccb.ac.uk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-gnome] Re: [opensuse-project] stupid 12.1
by Richard Brown 22 Dec '11

22 Dec '11

>>> Albert 12/22/11 11:53 AM >>> >>I am afraid that, honey, this is just your own feeling. Not it is not - there are a large number of gnome developers and users who greatly appreciate and enjoy using gnome-shell. We might not be as vocal about it as those unhappy with the direction of travel, but that's probably because we're too busy enjoying our 'distraction-free computing' environment and getting work done :) Are you going to provide us with some constructive criticism with reasoned explanation so we can move forward and take this conversation beyond your opinion of "I don't like gnome3" and maybe towards "I can help make gnome3 better for me"? Regards Richard This Christmas, why not provide a loved one with the perfect opportunity to learn a new skill, make new friends, earn a qualification that could lead to a change in career or impress their current employers? City College Gift Vouchers, redeemable against any of our exciting range of Part-time and Adult Community Learning courses, are available at the Finance Department, 2nd Floor, Central Campus, Pelham Street, Brighton. www.ccb.ac.uk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-gnome] Re: [opensuse-project] stupid 12.1
by Albert 22 Dec '11

22 Dec '11

I am afraid that, honey, this is just your own feeling. But please don't feel so good. Almost everybody around with using this 3.X feel it is a regress of Linux. Please remember, the full name of "LINUX" is "Linux is not Unix" neither "Windows" or "iOS" On 12/22/2011 11:40 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > On Thu, 2011-12-22 at 10:03 +0100, Albert wrote: >> Why do you encourage people to use GNOME SHELL? Is it more convenient or >> more beautiful to use it? At present, I found no reasons to switch to >> it. It is far behind GNOME2.X. As a Linux user and a professional design >> purpose user, I care more about the STABILITY and friendly interface. To >> me, the GNOME SHELL is much more suitable for tablet and entertainment, >> but not for ordinary daily work such as: office or computational work. > I couldn't disagree more. GNOME3 shell is far ahead of GNOME2 [which > I've been using every day all day to do *work* since the Ximian days]. > Shell is faster and cleaner and provides functionality GNOME2 never did > [dynamic workspaces, overview mode, screencast recording, extensions, > etc...]. Who can possibly miss the taskbar menu? I can't even imagine > why. > > <http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/2011/05/fortnight-with-gnome3.html> > <http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/2011/11/gaj-zeitgeist-opensuse-121.html> > <http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/2011/12/gnome3-journal-extension_12.html> > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] stupid 12.1
by Albert 22 Dec '11

22 Dec '11

THX. Now I feel that the person who just call "we" is completely a joke..... Obviously there is no "We" or "team" at this point. Everyone just cares about himself/herself or stands for its small part of world (GS3.X, KDE4, XFC....). I really don't understand when something is already good enough, why not try to keep it or make it perfect. But what I saw is someone stupid abandon something good and try to make something completely stupid. To me, the GNOME SHELL is just the rubbish derivate of iOS . Why did people always follow a dead body and admire him as the God of world? Why CANN'T us be another Steve Jobs and create something new or make good things better. On 12/22/2011 11:50 AM, C wrote: > On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 11:32, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r(a)opensuse.org> wrote: >> On 2011-12-22 10:54, C wrote: >>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 10:38, Albert <mailmd2011(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> For the interface itself, why not provide an option during installtion for >>>> user to choose GNOME2.X or GNOME3.X? >>> The simple answer to this is... Gnome2.x is no longer developed, no >>> longer supported, and deprecated. It's no longer an option. openSUSE >> https://features.opensuse.org/312946 >> Mate repo for openSUSE > The description of MATE (from their own readme) makes me laugh.... > > "MATE Desktop Environment, a non-intuitive and unattractive desktop > for users, using traditional computing desktop metaphor." > > MATE is not Gnome2... so my comment still stands Gnome2 is museum > fodder now. > > I hope that MATE is a successful project. > > C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] stupid 12.1
by Albert 21 Dec '11

21 Dec '11

I've used SUSE for more than six years and each new version coming out always give me surprising more or less. However, I found the most recent 12.1 is really disappointed, especially the gnome desktop: 1. I don't find any difference and surprise with this gnome3 while comparing with other linux distribution. 2. When I switch to gnome2-like environment, I am getting very angry. How can SUSE become as stupid as Ubuntu? The gnome2-like environment is almost the same as Ubuntu..... The menu, the task bar color and so on. Why can't SUSE keep its own uniques? The SUSE menu in 10.0 till 11.4 is quit nice and creative. Why did this 12.1 switch to stupid Ubuntu like style? 3. What's worse. The workspace switcher in gnome2-like environment is the same as 10.0 version: when we use "only show current workspace", it can only show ONE workspace, and others are all gone...... 12.1, Progress or backwards? To be honest as a Linux user, the stupid gnome3 don't have even a little tinny tiny attraction to me. I do hope the SUSE developer can design SUSE from the aspects of users. If I were a SUSE developer, I will pay more attention to the stability and general interface of SUSE. May SUSE a bright future. A SUSE Lover -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] FOSDEM cross-distro devroom
by Vincent Untz 19 Dec '11

19 Dec '11

Hi all, Like in the previous years, there will be a cross-distro devroom at FOSDEM. I guess many are not aware that the call for participation closes next week, on the 22nd... but now everyone is aware of that :-) I've pasted the CfP from [1] below. The short summary is that you just need to send a mail to distributions(a)lists.fosdem.org [2]. Moreover, it'd be great to have a few people step up with the organization of the devroom; if you're interested, just head to the mailing list and say so! Cheers, Vincent [1] https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/distributions/2011-November/000010.html [2] https://lists.fosdem.org/listinfo/distributions ====================== Hi, Now that the word is out on the list of accepted devrooms, we can sure expect many calls for participation from the many devrooms on this list. Let me be the first (I hope): There will again be a cross-distribution miniconference at FOSDEM this year. People or distribution projects who are interested in joining it are hereby invited to communicate that desire. For practical purposes, I would like to request that one person steps forward from each involved distributions devroom, so that we can list the participating projects on our website (as during previous years), but also so that I have some contact within each project in case it's needed. People interested in holding a session should let that intention be known on the distributions at lists.fosdem.org mailinglist, with the following information: - Their name - A (short) bio, to be put on the website along with their speaker name - (optionally) a picture of themselves - The title of their session (which will go on the website and in the booklet) - A (short) abstract describing the session in further detail. - The desired approximate duration for the session. Sessions can be talks, round tables, BoFs, or any number of other things that could generally benefit from an audience of distributions developers. In the case of BoF or round table sessions, note that I will still consider the submitter to be the 'speaker', though their role will probably be more something of a moderator. The deadline for submissions is December 22nd. -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] osc12 call for location by January 6th
by Alan Clark 19 Dec '11

19 Dec '11

It's time to start planning for the 2012 openSUSE conference (osc12). In some ways it may feel early, but in others it feels like we are already behind. One of the first steps is determining the place and time. We need to resolve this very soon. Some community members have voiced interest in holding osc12 at their city; prompting this email. We invite those interested in hosting the event to place a preliminary proposal on the openSUSE conference planning wiki: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Conference_Call_For_Location by January 6th. We will then use that information to investigate the feasibility of each proposal and to determine the place and date for osc12. So two actions requested by this email: 1) If you are interested in hosting osc12, please place a proposal on the wiki. 2) If you would like to add comments or questions/concerns to the individual proposals, I invite you to do so on the wiki so that they can be considered, investigated and addressed. Happy Holidays everyone. Alan Clark -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] [boosters] Standup Meeting 2011-12-19
by Klaas Freitag 19 Dec '11

19 Dec '11

General ======= openSUSE Board Election: * results are there, congrats to William Stephenson who got elected. Thanks to Pavol Rusnak for serving until now. * Thanks Tom for your work on the election committee * The chair question: It was asked when and how Novell (now SUSE probably) is going to appoint a chair person again. AJ says: The election rules say nothing about the when, so nothing changes with the current chair person Alan Clark at the moment. Next team meeting: * due to XMas the next Boosters stand up with take place on January 9th, 2012 Standup: ======== Current project: openStack on openSUSE Trello Board: https://trello.com/board/openstack-on-opensuse/ How the stars are used: * last week: ... * this week: ... * blocking: ... Coolo * nothing for the sprint * cleaning up Factory: legal team, harmonize licenses * closing year. cwh: * sick, meeting with Scot Bahling etc. * packaging for debian * - cartman: * package fixes for Factory, submit requests for factory python packages, maintenance updates. * python packages, legal reviews * waiting for legal digitltom: * openstack packages, fixed nova packages and deps macbrain installation checked, install manual in wiki * investigate installation and why it works on mcbrain * - Nanuk: * whiteboard plugin for connect, working. * picture upload plugin * no opensuse mail address Michal: * polishing the OpenStack appliance, GCI * finish the appliance polishing * - Klaas: * investingating McBrain installation in terms of network setup discussion with Henne and Tom * year wrap up, FTO * - Vincent: * pushed git packages branches in virtualization proj * no milestone, GNOME packages for Factory * Vacation from thursday. Max. * submitted openstack-keystone to V:C:OS:D; bug triaging * bug triaging; code tracing * - Klaas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE Board Election 2011
by Izabel Valverde 17 Dec '11

17 Dec '11

The openSUSE Election Officials is pleased to announce the 5th openSUSE Board elected by openSUSE community. The new board members are Pascal Bleser, Will Stephenson and Andrew Wafaa. We would like to congratulate all Board Members and wish them all the best. We would also like to thank all candidates for their interested to run for openSUSE board. We’re really proud to have so many good candidates. The official results can be found at http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election Thank all voters for taking time to vote. Best Regards, The openSUSE Election Officials -- Izabel Valverde openSUSE Marketing http://news.opensuse.org/ http://www.opensuse.org/pt-br/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] forum down?
by Kostas Koudaras 15 Dec '11

15 Dec '11

Hi The forum seems to be down, does anyone knows why and when it will be available again? Kostas -- http://opensuse.gr http://amb.opensuse.gr http://own.opensuse.gr http://warlordfff.tk me I am not me ------- Time travel is possible, you just need to know the right aliens -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Calling for help for medical project. How do I create a live cd as I want it?
by Stathis Iosifidis (aka diamond_gr) 15 Dec '11

15 Dec '11

Hello, Next week I'm planing to have the first medical project meeting. I'll inform you about. Following what mentioned: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-medical/2011-11/msg00007.html I was searching a way how to create a live cd fully functional. PROBLEM: We need a live cd that will have an SQL program installed (with user-pass) and this database will be imported to the EMR program. Imagine to setup a live cd with Joomla or Drupal fully functional. SUSE studio can add the medical repository and the EMR programs but without the SQL programs. Even if the SQL is set, then the EMR program must be installed-setup. If someone know how to do that, let us know. I was told that I can do that with KIWI. I was reading documentation to do that but I understood that KIWI adds repository and the program with the use of config.xml file. Someone told me that there might be a script but it's out of his zone. Since I'm veterinarian and I don't know about scripting etc (and tell you the truth I don't want to learn since there are a lot about animal pathology so far), I don't know how to proceed. Can someone tell me or even better help me? As far as I see it, I can say: 1. We pack as many programs as we can to our repository. 2. Create an appliance with the repository and maybe with some programs that don't require SQL. 3. Make our wiki the PORTAL that everyone can use with the LiveCD. I mean how to install the EMR program (how to setup SQL and then the program). I'll be waiting for proposals, so I'll set the meeting for next week. Have a lot of fun, Stathis -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE server
by Jörg Stephan 14 Dec '11

14 Dec '11

Hi there, i tried to ask some people if there is any movement of creating a own set of openSUSE-Server repos, wikipages, guidlines etc. but i haven't a clear answer. I just found several pages in openFATE and the wiki which talk about this idea, but no general reaction. So i will ask here :-) Are their people interested in creating openSUSE Server? I had a conversation on that topic. Of course the normal installation does work on servers, but there are some "issues" which doesn't fit. - Repos are to wide splitted: For running an webserver you definitely need some community-repos. Providing them on the wiki would help, and of course talk about that. - server-kernel is needed of course, i know, i know, the -desktop kernel works on an server. And to be honest i just mention it here cause i talkes with a friend and he just said, having a -server kernel would feel better, and he is right :-) - a install should be created i use this "minimal-system" to install my servers. but the first time i added some software i was surprised that the pattern must be removed. That's strange. - long term support if needed, should be placed. I guess there should be no need, but maybe a point to talk about. I would like to work on this topics. But i guess it will not work if i am alone on this. So any ideas? Regards Jörg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Google Code-in - Reminder to add more tasks
by Manu Gupta 13 Dec '11

13 Dec '11

Hi All, During this code-in, we have done quite a bit of marketing jobs. Below there I am posting what has been done till now thanks to all the students and the mentors ( who may or may not be here ) but certainly we can make use of it. Now here are some lists of tasks that we have done but some bit. Its time for to either become a mentor or propose newer tasks. This is an awesome list and without you awesome guys it would not have been possible. Also, if you can forward it to relevant mailing lists from where we can get more ideas or tasks like that will be extra awesome. So lets gear up, brainstorm and add more lists. There are 2 ways 1. Become a mentor and add the tasks yourself 2. Just mail it here or mail me personally and I will add it. Examples of tasks can be Translation related, bug reporting, web related, documentation related, wiki related any article for news etc related. Please visit http://www.google-melange.com/ to look at the task list of openSUSE so that there is as less duplication as possible. last date of adding the tasks is 15th December. Thanks a lot. -- Regards Manu Gupta -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Draft of openSUSEServer Ideas
by Jörg Stephan 13 Dec '11

13 Dec '11

Hi again, maybe we can share all the ideas on the topic http://openetherpad.org/IAsA9nhP2l these are mine Regards Jörg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] [reminder] openSUSE Project Meeting tomorrow at 18:00 UTC
by openSUSE Meeting Reminder 13 Dec '11

13 Dec '11

Hello all, The biweekly project meeting will be held tomorrow at 18:00 UTC in #opensuse-project on freenode. Everybody is invited to join and participate! Find out what time the meeting will be in your timezone: http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=14&month=12&year=2011&… Agenda of the meeting: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Project_meeting#Agenda_for_the_next_meeting If you cannot participate and want a specific question to be answered during the meeting, please add your question to: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Project_meeting#Questions_Section Minutes and logs of previous meetings can be found at: http://community.opensuse.org/meetings/opensuse-project/ Thanks, -- openSUSE Meeting Reminder -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Contact for trademark questions
by Schnizer, Monika 13 Dec '11

13 Dec '11

Hello, please could you tell me the email contact address for questions on trademark guidelines. The address given in the trademark guidelines (http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Trademark_guidelines) permission(a)novell.com<mailto:permission@novell.com> did not work. --- With best regards Monika Schnizer Software Development FTS PDG SV E SW 4 FUJITSU Fujitsu Technology Solutions GmbH Domagk-Str. 28, 80807 Munich, Germany Tel.: +49 (89) 3222 2287 Fax: +49 (89) 3222 329 2287 E-mail: Monika.Schnizer(a)ts.fujitsu.com Web: ts.fujitsu.com Company details: ts.fujitsu.com/imprint This communication contains information that is confidential, proprietary in nature and/or privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient(s), please note that any form of dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete the original communication. Thank you for your cooperation. Please be advised that neither Fujitsu, its affiliates, its employees or agents accept liability for any errors, omissions or damages caused by delays of receipt or by any virus infection in this message or its attachments, or which may otherwise arise as a result of this e-mail transmission. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] [boosters] Standup 2011-12-12
by Henne Vogelsang 12 Dec '11

12 Dec '11

General ------- * FOSDEM Henne organizes travel and talk submission. Deadline for lightning talks is tomorrow. Deadline for the distro-mini-conf is the 22nd. Standup ------- Michal * nothing * Polishing the openstack appliance in studio. * Package updates, work on mysql bugs. Pavol * nothing * nothing * Maintenance updates. Factory updates. Vacation. Vuntz * nothing * Continue with packaging. Package the dashboard. Enable other distributions. * Security bugs. Factory changes for GNOME. Nanuk * nothing * nothing * school. connect whiteboard for the artwork team. Ismail * Pushing python packages to Factory (80% done). * Finish pushing python packages * Maintenance updates. Sick leave. Klaas * Setting up the test cloud. Got help from Bernhard about the configuration. Nova is setup up on mcbrain now. Recorded what extra steps have to be taken so we can get them packaged. * Get the extra changes needed for the nova setup packaged. * nothing Tom * nothing * Catch up with Klaas on what he learned from Bernhard. * Sick leave. Work on the board elections. Work on the connect->mail setup. Implemented some GCI results. Will * nothing * nothing * SLE security updates. Board election. Holidays. Max * work on keystone. python packaging. * more packaging. * maintenance updates. training. Henne * Watching Klaas and Bernhard setting up the test cloud. * Get the extra changes needed for the nova setup packaged. * Board issues. Work on our team page. Implement some GCI results. Retire some mailinglists. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] [boosters] Standup 2011-12-05
by Henne Vogelsang 12 Dec '11

12 Dec '11

General ----------- N/A Standup ------------ Klaas * Setup the rabbitmq and swift services on the test cloud. Tracked files and settings that we might want to packages * Get the test cloud going * Vacation Vincent * Packaging the openstack packages from git (nova, swift etc.). Documented how to do that. * Continue with packaging. Package the dashboard. Enable other distributions * Get a testing repo going Christopher * Packaging the openstack packages from git (glance). * Continue with the packaging. Enable other distributions * nothing Ismail * Push the python packages to Factory. * Finish pushing the python packages. * Maintenance for openSUSE. SLE bugs. Max * nothing * Enable other distributions for the git packages * Bug fixing, Bug triaging Will * nothing * nothing * Holiday, Leave. Work on KDE PIM. Board candidacy work. SLE bug for knetworkmanager. Bug triaging. Michal * nothing * nothing * Release party. Code-In mentoring. 12.1 mysql bugreports Pavol * Cleanup openstack packages. Talked to eucatools/radis maintainers to push to factory. * More cleanup. Work on the dashboard package. * Release party. OSC12 people gathering in the office, looks good for 8-12 people :) Henne * Install the test cloud. Hanging at the verification of the setup because of some eucatools bug. Digging into the nova client as replacement. * Verify the setup. Get the remaining parts setup. Document what we can`t package (like config changes etc.) * mediawiki update. Reviving the SDB together with snbarth. -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE "Everybody has a plan, until they get hit." -- Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE board election reminder
by openSUSE Election Officials 09 Dec '11

09 Dec '11

The openSUSE board election[1] started last week and already ~25% of all openSUSE members casted their vote! If you didn't vote yet, we ask you to do so now at: https://connect.opensuse.org//pg/polls/read/digitaltomm/15228/opensuse-boar… All openSUSE members[2] are eligible to vote. The election period ends at December the 16th, 23:00 UTC. All candidates have put their agenda on the wiki[1], linked as "Platform" after the candidates' name. If you have any questions, please contact the election officials (election-officials(a)opensuse.org). Greetings [1] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_2011 [2] http://en.opensuse.org/Members -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Google Code in - task complete
by Robert Schweikert 07 Dec '11

07 Dec '11

Hi, As part of the Google Code-in effort Subhashish signed up to take a look at a task that originated from our "What to improve session" at oSc11. Subhashish concentrated on Wiki navigation and search. His proposal can be found here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:What_to_improve_osc11_session_-_Problem_Det… This page is also linked from the session notes found here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:What_to_improve_osc11_session Subhashish thanks for taking this on, for your proposal, and a job well done. Wiki team members, It would be great if changes based on this proposal could be implemented to improve navigation and search. Later, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU SUSE-IBM Software Integration Center LINUX Tech Lead rjschwei(a)suse.com rschweik(a)ca.ibm.com 781-464-8147 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE board election started
by openSUSE Election Officials 07 Dec '11

07 Dec '11

The openSUSE board election just started! Please go to: https://connect.opensuse.org/pg/polls/read/digitaltomm/15228/opensuse-board… and cast your vote for this election. All openSUSE members[1] are eligible to vote. The board consists of 6 members and one chairperson. As the election period of Bryen Yunashko, Pavol Rusnak and Rupert Horstkotter ends, this election will appoint 3 new board members. The election period ends at December the 16th. All candidates have put their agenda on the wiki[2], linked as "Platform" after the candidates' name. If you have any questions, please contact the election officials (election-officials(a)opensuse.org). Greetings [1] http://en.opensuse.org/Members [2] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_2011 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] about the foundation
by jdd 06 Dec '11

06 Dec '11

Hello, Reading the Pascal platform, I was concerned by his declaration about foundation. Not to say he's not right :-) I simply think that some ideas have to be discussed and may be the moment is there because it have impact on the vote for the board. * initially, the foundation was seen as a fund raiser. May be this is the error. * the other openSOURCE project (Fedora, for example) have a structure, why should it be impossible for us (I mean why should it be so difficult to find people to manage it) * one of the problem I see now in our work is that volunteers can see they work as a work for free in the benefit of the sponsor. Don't read me bad. I like the way our sponsor help us, but the truth is we have absolutely no control on the ressource and this is not good. People who work should have some control. Of course we have to work in sinergy: make the sponsor happy is a good thing, but we should have an independent voice also. * That's why I would like to see a "friends of openSUSE" non profit group as, for example, there are several for my ISP. These/this group could share free comments and make the basis for a may be future foundation. Of course this group would in no way receive massive amount of money nor hold the openSUSE name ownership, but could share and collect non official information (in both direction, to and from SUSE). I still want to say I'm really glad to see this much good candidates. Choosing will be hard :-) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Questions for the leaving board members
by Per Jessen 05 Dec '11

05 Dec '11

Perhaps a little early, but this way people will have time to think about it. For the leaving board-members: how about a report-upon-departure? Nothing too elaborate, but the people who voted for you might be interested to hear if you have achieved something (or not). Some possible questions: did being a board member meet/clash with your expectations, was it a lot of work, were there any memorable moments, would you do it again? Apart from election time, the board is a mostly invisible entity, so perhaps this could be an opportunity for everyone, including the new candidates, to learn. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (8.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] My questions for the board candidates
by Henne Vogelsang 05 Dec '11

05 Dec '11

Hey, I too have a couple of questions that I would like to see answered before I vote. 1. What do you think the board is really doing? We all know the boards duties and goals as stated in the guiding principles but what do the board members do to fulfill and reach those? Please name as many tasks as you can and what they involve specifically. Example: * The Board cleans the loo. Every week another board member (rotated alphabetically) organizes cleaner, a cloth and a mop from someone in the community. He/she then cleans the porcelain and wipes the floor. 2. What do you think is the most important thing that you personally as a Board member have to do? I'm not so much interested in goals you want to reach in the future but more in what you think is the most important part in your "job description". 3. Please describe your view of openSUSE as a project. Which people/groups/functions are there and how do they work together? I'm looking for a structured list, a short text or an org-chart :) 4. How would you describe openSUSE's relationship to its sponsors? What do we get from our sponsors and how? What do the sponsors get from us and how? Thanks in advance for answering those and helping me to decide between so many fine candidates :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE http://www.hennevogel.de Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Question for Board Candidates
by Sankar P 04 Dec '11

04 Dec '11

Hi board candidates, All the very best to everyone competing in the board election. Personally, this election has a lot of candidates who are too close to me. I have a few very simple questions for the candidates. Please answer them with a soft-limit of 750 characters, per answer. Thanks. 0) Board and Foundation: Will board members be controlling the foundation too ? What roles do you see board members performing in the foundation ? will there be dedicated personnel [from/outside] the board for specific roles in the foundation ? I know that these have been asked in the foundation-list earlier but I am interested in knowing what your idea on this. Will you be interested in nominating yourself for any specific position, say Treasurer, Lawyer, Firefighter ? 1) Financial Transparency: Assuming that the foundation will be setup soon, what aspects do you think that the financial processes of the foundation should have ? What level of openness do you propose ? Should everything be in black and white or there can be costs which are not shared public ? How often should a reporting be made in terms of the financial status ? Should we follow some other open source projects here ? Say GNOME/KDE ? 2) Software Freedom in the era of cloud: Earlier people were locked into proprietary data formats (like doc, ppt) (before OOXML) but now people voluntarily lock their data (mails, photos) into cloud storage. Some feel paranoid about this. Some feel that this fear is much similar to the fear that people had when Banks were introduced to store people's money. Do you think that it is okay to trade a little freedom for a little free online storage, for some home users at least ? 3) openSUSE Hosted Solutions: Do you think openSUSE should enter into hosting things and providing online services for users (like ubuntuone, gmail, dropbox etc.) ? We can charge users a small fee and promise to not spy/sell their data. 4) Hypothetical Scenario: If Microsoft offers us a few thousand dollars as part of Bing marketing for making Bing the default search engine and homepage on openSUSE, will you accept it ? If no, Why not ? 5) vim or emacs ? (Just trolling here. You can avoid. You'll get +10 points if you answer both) Listmates, Please avoid arguing over any of the responses. These are just personal opinions and we should respect all of them. We can disagree with them when they are proposed as a board item. Now it is just a campaign response. Thanks a lot and All the best :-) -- Sankar P http://psankar.blogspot.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] My questions for the board candidates
by Richard Brown 04 Dec '11

04 Dec '11

>I too have a couple of questions that I would like to see answered >before I vote. > >1. What do you think the board is really doing? We all know the boards > duties and goals as stated in the guiding principles but what do > the board members do to fulfill and reach those? Please name as many > tasks as you can and what they involve specifically. What is the board really doing? I think they're having meetings regularly in IRC and the occasional face to face. They seem to be fielding issues as they're brought to their attention, discussing them, then deciding a course of action which usually results in a board member following up the issue with the people involved or leading the initative to solve the issue. Board members are also often the ones to identify and raise those issues for the board to discuss and work on as above. I think they're doing more behind the scenes, listening directly to feedback from users and community members. This 'soft' feedback probably (and should) inform their own opinions which come out when they regularly interact with contributors. A quiet word or gentle suggestion can often be more effective and productive than a dictitorial edict, which of course would go against the duties and goals of the board. >2. What do you think is the most important thing that you personally as > a Board member have to do? I'm not so much interested in goals you > want to reach in the future but more in what you think is the most > important part in your "job description". If I'm elected, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be listening to problems, issues, and new ideas for the board to deal with and discuss. I'm going to have to share my opinions and ideas with the board, and I expect I'll often be stuck either finding other people in the community to help out with the issues, finding compromises, or 'just do it' and get my hands dirty trying to fix it myself. In a word, I expect to act as a 'troubleshooter', helping answer the questions no one else wants to answer, and helping to fix the problems no one else wants to fix. >3. Please describe your view of openSUSE as a project. Which > people/groups/functions are there and how do they work together? I'm > looking for a structured list, a short text or an org-chart :) Speaking very generally (so there are many individuals who don't fit into any of the descriptions below, sorry) Starting with our contributors, we have folks contributing code, packages, and ideas They're loosely organised in teams working on specific areas (eg Artwork, GNOME, OBS). These teams largely organise themselves, working on improving their specific part of the project. They have their own wiki pages, mailinglists and IRC channels to help them along and to make it easier for others to get in touch with the teams (Mailing-list crossposting isn't always bad :)) This approach and our tools do seem to leave much information 'siloed' in the teams, but luckily individuals often involve themselves in more than one team and this can lead to very healthy cross-pollination and should be encoraged. In addition to contributors we have a community of 'supporters' who, while not contributors in the "code, packages, ideas" sense, help out in the forums and IRC to sort out users with day to day problems. In my opinion there is often less interaction between 'supporters' and contributors than there could be, which can lead to end user problems remaining hidden and unresolved for longer than ideal. I'd like to see these IRC and Forum supporters more able/willing to file bugs and engage with contributors, and visa versa. We have our Users. They use openSUSE. When they hit problems they normally turn to the forums and IRC and end up speakign to either supporters or contributors. When we're able to help, I think we help them very well, but I dont think we give these end users a very consistent experience which can make our project seem rather indimidating to a beginner. When users have ideas or want to give back to the project, I don't think many realise just how easy and open we are to them pitching in. We are an incredibly open distribution we just need to make more people realise that. And then there are the 'outsiders', other FOSS projects, other organisations, journalists and bloggers. Without an obvious point of contact with the project all this miscellaneous lot bump into the other groups outlined above and often base their opinion of our project on their feedback. It's means we often don't give a consistent image of ourselves to these 'outsiders', but arguably it is at least very honest. I think we could do some work making it easier for these outsiders to work with us, establish better links, make it easier for them to get in touch with us. >4. How would you describe openSUSE's relationship to its sponsors? What > do we get from our sponsors and how? What do the sponsors get from > us and how? I only know of currently two sponsors who seem to have a relationship with us - SUSE and B1 SUSE's relationship as our primary sponsor is obviously the most important one. Many of our most important & active contributors are SUSE employees, and SUSE provide much of the infrastructure we need for the project. Previously, I believe there was a strong feeling of unease and distrust between a large part of 'the community' and SUSE/Novell. I don't think those feelings were warranted, but with the changes at the top as part of the Attachmate buyout SUSE seems very keen to emphesies the importance of openSUSE to them, while simultaniously stressing our independance and supporting the idea of the foundation. If this message continues to get out I think a lot of those old feelings will drift away. So from SUSE, we get the core resources we need to build openSUSE, the project and the distrubtion, which in return give SUSE the platform and ideas they need to build their commercial products and services from. I heard someone suggest to Nils Brauckmann that SUSE need to support openSUSE because the things we're 'playing with' today are the things SUSE will need as products when the market 'catches up'. Looking at our work with ARM, KDE, GNOME3, etc I can't think of a better way to put it. B1's interactions with us I know much less about, but from what I've seen, they seem to be a very close partner, speaking authorativly about advanced technical aspects of openSUSE/SUSE and contributing to the project. As a consultancy firm who probably make their money supporting SUSE/openSUSE in the field, I assume the biggest thing they in return is constant up to date knowledge about the products they work heavily with, and very close ties to potential customers who might need their services I think we're treated well by our sponsors, and in return give a good deal back - I'd just like to see more of them, which goes back to my earlier point of making better links with those outside the project. >Thanks in advance for answering those and helping me to decide between >so many fine candidates :) It was a pleasure, now please vote for me! :) This Christmas, why not provide a loved one with the perfect opportunity to learn a new skill, make new friends, earn a qualification that could lead to a change in career or impress their current employers? City College Gift Vouchers, redeemable against any of our exciting range of Part-time and Adult Community Learning courses, are available at the Finance Department, 2nd Floor, Central Campus, Pelham Street, Brighton. www.ccb.ac.uk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Question for Board Candidates
by Richard Brown 03 Dec '11

03 Dec '11

>>> Sankar P 12/01/11 8:01 PM >>> > Hi board candidates, Hi! >0) Board and Foundation: Will board members be controlling the >foundation too ? What roles do you see board members performing in the >foundation ? will there be dedicated personnel [from/outside] the >board for specific roles in the foundation ? I know that these have >been asked in the foundation-list earlier but I am interested in >knowing what your idea on this. Will you be interested in nominating >yourself for any specific position, say Treasurer, Lawyer, Firefighter >? As I covered in my platform page, I'm not opposed to the idea of a foundation but I question the need for one. I feel our project needs to be seen to be independant, and I really think we need to strengthen that, forming a foundation is one way, but is it the best? Assuming a foundation is formed, I would think a logical option would be to have the board transferring from being 'the project board' to being 'the foundation board', serving a similar role under the new structure. Just as we already have volenteers who step up and take roles in the project, I expect that will be needed in the foundation. Given the importance of some of those roles (eg Treasurer) I think the board should be involved in the selection in some way, but I do not think it should be entirely controlled by the board nor necessarily a board member. >1) Financial Transparency: Assuming that the foundation will be setup >soon, what aspects do you think that the financial processes of the >foundation should have ? What level of openness do you propose ? >Should everything be in black and white or there can be costs which >are not shared public ? How often should a reporting be made in terms >of the financial status ? Should we follow some other open source >projects here ? Say GNOME/KDE ? As open and as transparent as humanly possible. I feel reporting should be at least quarterly if continunous 'live' reporting isn't a possibility. As a foundation we'd be a non-for-profit independant organisation so I struggle to see the benefit of keeping anything hidden. Looking into how other projects do it would go without saying, no point making the same mistakes as those who have done this before us. >2) Software Freedom in the era of cloud: Earlier people were locked >into proprietary data formats (like doc, ppt) (before OOXML) but now >people voluntarily lock their data (mails, photos) into cloud storage. >Some feel paranoid about this. Some feel that this fear is much >similar to the fear that people had when Banks were introduced to >store people's money. Do you think that it is okay to trade a little >freedom for a little free online storage, for some home users at least >? I believe people should be in control of their information. To me this means control of their devices, their operating system, as well as the data contained within. I think it is okay for people to use 'cloud' services, such as online storage, but I think people need to be made more aware of the risks and large amounts of trust they're putting into these companies. Personally I use cloud services as a backup and convinenece, never as a primary system or the only place for my data. >3) openSUSE Hosted Solutions: Do you think openSUSE should enter into >hosting things and providing online services for users (like >ubuntuone, gmail, dropbox etc.) ? We can charge users a small fee and >promise to not spy/sell their data. I feel we already have some 'hosted' solutions - OBS for individuals package repositories, our own pastebin, stuff like that. I like the idea of openSUSE expanding the range of ancillary services we can offer our community, when they compliment our core project and products. I'm not sure I see the benefit of having an openSUSE specific cloud storage option, the Dropbox's and Spideroak's are already out there, what unique benefits would our own bring to our users? >4) Hypothetical Scenario: If Microsoft offers us a few thousand >dollars as part of Bing marketing for making Bing the default search >engine and homepage on openSUSE, will you accept it ? If no, Why not ? Philisophiscally speaking - I would accept it, assuming the money was worthwhile. If software companies with a primarily proprietary portfolio want to help an open source project like ours I think we should accept it and use it as an opportunity to bring them more into the fold and work with us in other more practical ways (like code!) Practically/technically speaking - Hell no, Bing is a terrible search engine and I think we need to give the best as our default to our users. so ultimately, on the practical grounds, I'd vote no, even though philisophiscally I'm not opposed to the hypothethical example. >5) vim or emacs ? (Just trolling here. You can avoid. You'll get +10 >points if you answer both) v im, but only because I can't look emacs in the eye after watching this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1sXuHnf_lo >Thanks a lot and All the best :-) Thank you, great questions! This Christmas, why not provide a loved one with the perfect opportunity to learn a new skill, make new friends, earn a qualification that could lead to a change in career or impress their current employers? City College Gift Vouchers, redeemable against any of our exciting range of Part-time and Adult Community Learning courses, are available at the Finance Department, 2nd Floor, Central Campus, Pelham Street, Brighton. www.ccb.ac.uk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] My Platform
by Chuck Payne 02 Dec '11

02 Dec '11

Guys, This is a quick note. I could not complete my platform. I am on the way to the hospital with my wife. Our little girl is coming, by tonight or this time I will have new litte Payne in my life. I like to wish all good luck. A real quick, why am I runing. I want to run because I love openSUSE. I know that not good enough for a lot of people. But I want to give back. I have always been a worker. My real life job is as a System Admin. I take care of two data center. I wish I could say more. If I don't make, I just want to wish everyone good luck. I am not running for power, but to give back. openSUSE is a major part of my life and always will be. A vote for me is vote outside, out of box, black sheep thinking. I promise if I do get on the board I will give 120%. Chuck "PUP" Payne a.k.a Terrorpup -- (678) 636-9678 ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- en.opensuse.org/User:Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Register Linux Userid: 155363 Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] My Board Platform
by Manu Gupta 02 Dec '11

02 Dec '11

Hi All, This is my platform for the upcoming elections http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_2011_platform_template_manug… If you have anything to ask, please feel free to do so. Thanks -- Regards Manu Gupta -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Re: [opensuse-marketing] openSUSE @ FOSDEM
by Pascal Bleser 02 Dec '11

02 Dec '11

On 2011-12-01 12:19:09 (+0100), Henne Vogelsang <hvogel(a)opensuse.org> wrote: > On 01.12.2011 00:07, Richard Brown wrote: > > I'm volunteering to co-ordinate an openSUSE stand at FOSDEM this February > Cool :) > > > Even if you're not coming this year, I especially welcome advice and > > guidance from FOSDEM veterans. What worked in previous years? > * Bring the Touchsmarts, people like to grope things. > * Bring 12.1 DVDs, stickers and folders, people like to snatch things. > * Bring Beer and T-Shirts, sell them for 1€ and give the proceeds to > the university. They will love you. (Pascal knows whom to give it to) > * Have 2 guys, you can rely on at any time, to be on the booth. People > like to wander off into the awesome program. One minute it might seem > that you have a gazillion people on the booth and the next one it's > deserted because RMS speaks. True, but I'd even plan a bit more than 2 people if possible. Thing is, there will probably be around 400 sessions during the weekend, with more than 20 in parallel at all times and, hence, it's very likely that people will want to see a few talks as well. Ideally, have people check the schedule once it's available, find their "must see" talks, and make a schedule. Only gotcha: the schedule will be published really late (that's inherent to the way FOSDEM works, projects arrange their own schedule for the devrooms). Henne, as you won't be able to be there (*sad* :(), will someone else take care of travelling with the openSUSE stand and touchsmarts and stuff from Nürnberg to Brussels, as usual ? Are you coordinating on the Nürnberg side of things, or is someone else ? If so, whom ? :) > * Try as hard as possible to avoid that people leave their shit on > the booth. The corridors are narrow, the boths are small, there are > more and more people each year. If they all leave their Jackets, > laptops and bags on your booth there is no room to operate anymore. Well actually, we (FOSDEM) will move the stands to a different location, into a new building, which means that the corridors won't be narrow :) It won't be a lonely spot either, as there are several interesting devrooms in that building, as well as one of the main track rooms. > > what do I need to know? > > * You get two tables and a couple of chairs in a windy corridor No windy corridor :) > * It's friggn cold and drafty Not any more :) > * Don't try to plan anything, it's chaotic. Yeah, it's definitely a *very* busy place, with insane amounts of people going around, and most of them will be people who already contribute to FOSS projects, so they're more likely to ask what's specific about openSUSE as compared to others, how the community is working/like, about OBS, openQA, etc... -- rather than "oh, what's this Linux thing ?" ;) > * Have Pascals number on speed dial. He's the man. I'll broadcast it around to a few people who will go to FOSDEM in due time. Generally speaking, exchange phone numbers before going there, because you don't just randomly run into the people you want to see, it's too much crowd for that :) > * Get drunk as early as possible :-) Be *very* careful at the beer event on Friday, or with belgian beer in general, and I'm not kidding, it's really strong stuff. Actually, I rather had in mind that we (openSUSE people going to FOSDEM) will coordinate to go some place for food on Friday evening, before going to the beer event and then possibly some quieter place too. I can take care of arranging things, but I will need to know how many people will show up. And we'll prolly do the same for Saturday evening too. (No one is forced to, just a proposal :)) I'll send an email to the project list in due time (mid January). > > what do I need to avoid? > * Belgian "Beer". At any cost. Well, definitely consume with great care, it's not the kind of coloured water they sell in Germany ;) I recommend Tripel Karmeliet, Delirium Tremens, Kwak, ... :D Oh, and if you haven't booked a hotel yet, definitely do that ASAP. Due to the large amount of people, and Brussels being a tourist and business hot spot anyway, several hotels are already booked out. For low budgets, one option that works surprisingly well is couch surfing: http://couchsurfing.org As of which hotel to pick, it's not that important as the venue is a little bit off the historic center and you'll have to travel by public transport or cab anyway (not an issue, explained at http://fosdem.org/2012/transportation) If there are any questions, don't hesitate to get in touch with me, by email or on IRC (I'm "yaloki" there). cheers -- -o) Pascal Bleser /\\ http://opensuse.org -- we haz green _\_v http://fosdem.org -- we haz conf

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[opensuse-project] Election platform page
by Pascal Bleser 02 Dec '11

02 Dec '11

Finally got to fill out the missing bits on my election platform page: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_2011_platform_template_yaloki (yes, it's long, but that way, at least, rest assured you're not buying a cat in a bag ;))) Would be cool if the other candidates would also announce here when they're done with their respective platform page :) Good luck to each of the candidates, it's already a win because we have so many candidates, and great people too :) cheers -- -o) Pascal Bleser /\\ http://opensuse.org -- we haz green _\_v http://fosdem.org -- we haz conf

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[opensuse-project] Candidate company affiliations.
by James Mason 01 Dec '11

01 Dec '11

Each candidate's company affiliation has been added to the wiki list at http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election#Candidates as well as a note that only one SUSE employee may be elected. -- James Mason SUSE Studio Developer openSUSE Ambassador 2925 Roeder Ave Ste 300 Bellingham, WA 98225-2065 +1 360 752 6707 james.mason(a)suse.com -------------------- SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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