Hi there,
i tried to ask some people if there is any movement of creating a own set of openSUSE-Server repos, wikipages, guidlines etc. but i haven't a clear answer. I just found several pages in openFATE and the wiki which talk about this idea, but no general reaction. So i will ask here :-)
Are their people interested in creating openSUSE Server?
I had a conversation on that topic. Of course the normal installation does work on servers, but there are some "issues" which doesn't fit.
- Repos are to wide splitted: For running an webserver you definitely need some community-repos. Providing them on the wiki would help, and of course talk about that.
- server-kernel is needed of course, i know, i know, the -desktop kernel works on an server. And to be honest i just mention it here cause i talkes with a friend and he just said, having a -server kernel would feel better, and he is right :-)
- a install should be created i use this "minimal-system" to install my servers. but the first time i added some software i was surprised that the pattern must be removed. That's strange.
- long term support if needed, should be placed. I guess there should be no need, but maybe a point to talk about.
I would like to work on this topics. But i guess it will not work if i am alone on this. So any ideas?
Regards
Jörg
On 12/13/2011 03:23 PM, Jörg Stephan wrote:
Hi there,
i tried to ask some people if there is any movement of creating a own set of openSUSE-Server repos, wikipages, guidlines etc. but i haven't a clear answer. I just found several pages in openFATE and the wiki which talk about this idea, but no general reaction. So i will ask here :-)
Are their people interested in creating openSUSE Server?
I had a conversation on that topic. Of course the normal installation does work on servers, but there are some "issues" which doesn't fit.
- Repos are to wide splitted:
For running an webserver you definitely need some community-repos. Providing them on the wiki would help, and of course talk about that.
- server-kernel is needed
of course, i know, i know, the -desktop kernel works on an server. And to be honest i just mention it here cause i talkes with a friend and he just said, having a -server kernel would feel better, and he is right :-)
No, the default kernel is the server kernel. That's why we created a special desktop kernel.
- a install should be created
i use this "minimal-system" to install my servers. but the first time i added some software i was surprised that the pattern must be removed. That's strange.
Might be a bug. Did you file it?
Andreas
On 13 December 2011 09:40, Andreas Jaeger aj@suse.com wrote: On 12/13/2011 03:23 PM, Jörg Stephan wrote:
Hi there,
i tried to ask some people if there is any movement of creating a own set of openSUSE-Server repos, wikipages, guidlines etc. but i haven't a clear answer. I just found several pages in openFATE and the wiki which talk about this idea, but no general reaction. So i will ask here :-)
Are their people interested in creating openSUSE Server?
I had a conversation on that topic. Of course the normal installation does work on servers, but there are some "issues" which doesn't fit.
- Repos are to wide splitted:
For running an webserver you definitely need some community-repos. Providing them on the wiki would help, and of course talk about that.
- server-kernel is needed
of course, i know, i know, the -desktop kernel works on an server. And to be honest i just mention it here cause i talkes with a friend and he just said, having a -server kernel would feel better, and he is right :-)
No, the default kernel is the server kernel. That's why we created a special desktop kernel.
Just a question: why is it not labelled at the server kernel?
- a install should be created
i use this "minimal-system" to install my servers. but the first time i added some software i was surprised that the pattern must be removed. That's strange.
Might be a bug. Did you file it?
Andreas
Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn,Jennifer Guild,Felix Imendörffer,HRB16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
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On 13.12.2011 15:40, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
- server-kernel is needed
of course, i know, i know, the -desktop kernel works on an server. And to be honest i just mention it here cause i talkes with a friend and he just said, having a -server kernel would feel better, and he is right :-)
No, the default kernel is the server kernel. That's why we created a special desktop kernel.
Careful with the wording. The default kernel is the desktop flavor, the default flavor is only default kernel on i586 if no pae is supported and on live cds.
This confusion is the reason, the default flavor should die :)
Greetings, Stephan
Might be a bug. Did you file it?
No, its not. There is software which stands against the minimal pattern, therefor this pattern must be removed. I understand that, a postgresql (for example) database is not a minimal system.
Greets
Am 13.12.2011 16:20, schrieb Jörg Stephan:
Might be a bug. Did you file it?
No, its not. There is software which stands against the minimal pattern, therefor this pattern must be removed. I understand that, a postgresql (for example) database is not a minimal system.
Patterns are inclusive not exclusive. You should be able to stack them. Patterns should only be offered for removal if you remove a component from them. So it still sounds like a bug.
Wolfgang
Hello,
Am Dienstag, 13. Dezember 2011 schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:
Am 13.12.2011 16:20, schrieb Jörg Stephan:
Might be a bug. Did you file it?
No, its not. There is software which stands against the minimal pattern, therefor this pattern must be removed. I understand that, a postgresql (for example) database is not a minimal system.
Patterns are inclusive not exclusive. You should be able to stack them. Patterns should only be offered for removal if you remove a component from them. So it still sounds like a bug.
The "minimal system" pattern is somewhat special. One of its goals is to keep the size of the installed system small. Therefore it has some "Conflicts" to keep some recommended packages (IIRC about 100 MB) out.
To be exact, the pattern is split to "minimal system" and "minimal system conflicts", where the "...conflicts" pattern contains the "Conflicts". So you can keep the main pattern and only have to remove the part containing the "Conflicts".
The better solution would be to have a "Discourages:" tag in RPM (in other words: a negative "Recommends"), but until someone[tm] implements this, we'll have to live with the current solution.
All this is a known issue, see for example https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=732811 and https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=669498
Gruß
Christian Boltz
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
- a install should be created
i use this "minimal-system" to install my servers. but the first time i added some software i was surprised that the pattern must be removed. That's strange.
Might be a bug. Did you file it?
There is a report open on it, but I don't know the number atm - we had a similar one in 11.4.
Hello,
Am Dienstag, 13. Dezember 2011 schrieb Jörg Stephan:
Are their people interested in creating openSUSE Server?
Yes and no ;-)
Yes, because I'm using openSUSE (also) on servers.
No, because I think doing it in the distribution itsself (= submit packages to Factory) instead of starting a separate project would be better and avoids some additional work.
- Repos are to wide splitted:
For running an webserver you definitely need some community-repos. Providing them on the wiki would help, and of course talk about that.
Submit the packages you need to Factory.
- server-kernel is needed
of course, i know, i know, the -desktop kernel works on an server. And to be honest i just mention it here cause i talkes with a friend and he just said, having a -server kernel would feel better, and he is right :-)
Do you have some numbers for that feeling? I'm quite sure the kernel developers/packagers will be very happy if you can provide a configuration for a server kernel that makes a webserver, fileserver etc. 20% faster ;-)
If it is really just a feeling, I can prepare a kernel-feel-better package containing (only) symlinks to /boot/vmlinuz and /boot/initrd and a dependency on the default kernel *g,d&r*
- a install should be created
i use this "minimal-system" to install my servers. but the first time i added some software i was surprised that the pattern must be removed. That's strange.
The "minimal system" pattern is somewhat special, see my other mail deeper in the thread about this.
Besides that, feel free to enhance the existing server-related patterns or create new ones as needed.
- long term support
if needed, should be placed. I guess there should be no need, but maybe a point to talk about.
You mean http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Evergreen ? People who help to keep old releases maintained are more than welcome ;-)
And: yes, long term support is an important point, especially for servers IMHO.
I would like to work on this topics. But i guess it will not work if i am alone on this. So any ideas?
See above ;-)
Regards,
Christian Boltz
Hi there,
2011/12/13 Christian Boltz opensuse@cboltz.de:
No, because I think doing it in the distribution itsself (= submit packages to Factory) instead of starting a separate project would be better and avoids some additional work.
So, maybe we have a little misunderstanding on my side. I really dont know who makes the decision on which paket can be found in the distribution. I know for example that there is a really good community repo which gives mod_chroot http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Apache:/Modules/Apache_openSUSE_12... i guess most of this modules could be needed in the distribution, to fit a server (better).
I think it would really be better if the distribution itself could fit this, it would make everything much easier. So what can I (we) do to improve this?
Submit the packages you need to Factory.
Thats all?
If it is really just a feeling, I can prepare a kernel-feel-better package containing (only) symlinks to /boot/vmlinuz and /boot/initrd and a dependency on the default kernel *g,d&r*
Well, i will take a look what i can do :-) By the way, what system runs the openSUSE infrastruktur?
The "minimal system" pattern is somewhat special, see my other mail deeper in the thread about this.
Besides that, feel free to enhance the existing server-related patterns or create new ones as needed.
Okay, sounds easy, but i think it wont be easy. I take a closer look.
- long term support
if needed, should be placed. I guess there should be no need, but maybe a point to talk about.
You mean http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Evergreen ? People who help to keep old releases maintained are more than welcome ;-)
Okay :-)
Wenn mir jemand im Klartext (deutsch oder schwäbisch) schreiben könnte
Om's scsi_mod musch di et kimmra, des kå modprobe en dr /lib/modules/`uname -r`/modules.dep, die vom depmod gschriba wird, selbr rausfenda. [> Ute Ferlein und David Haller in suse-linux]
Um das SCSI Module musst du dich nicht kümmern, das kann modprobe in der /lib/modules/`uname -r`/modules.dep, die von depmod geschriben wird, selbst rausfinden
Würde ich mal sagen.
Grüsse
Jörg
Hello,
Am Dienstag, 13. Dezember 2011 schrieb Jörg Stephan:
2011/12/13 Christian Boltz opensuse@cboltz.de:
No, because I think doing it in the distribution itsself (= submit packages to Factory) instead of starting a separate project would be better and avoids some additional work.
So, maybe we have a little misunderstanding on my side. I really dont know who makes the decision on which paket can be found in the distribution.
The person who maintains the package and submits it to Factory ;-) There are some people (Coolo, Sascha, ...) that have to accept the package. They usually accept most packages, rejects only happen if they have a very good reason.
I know for example that there is a really good community repo which gives mod_chroot http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Apache:/Modules/Apache_openS USE_12.1/ i guess most of this modules could be needed in the distribution, to fit a server (better).
I think it would really be better if the distribution itself could fit this, it would make everything much easier. So what can I (we) do to improve this?
There are two options: a) ask the maintainers if they want to push their package(s) to Factory (it can happen that a maintainer asks you to help in maintaining the package or even hands over maintenance to you completely) b) push the package to Factory yourself (which means _you_ will have to maintain it in Factory)
Submit the packages you need to Factory.
Thats all?
Basically yes ;-) You should of course also maintain the package (update for new openSUSE releases, provide fixed packages for released versions if a security problem comes up etc.)
You can find more details on http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Factory - have a look at the "Contribute to Factory" section.
By the way, what system runs the openSUSE infrastruktur?
AFAIK the servers run with SLES.
Besides that, feel free to enhance the existing server-related patterns or create new ones as needed.
Okay, sounds easy, but i think it wont be easy. I take a closer look.
The technical part is quite easy - a pattern is a list of packages that belong together (for example a "LAMP" pattern for a typical webserver with PHP and MySQL).
The more interesting[tm] thing is to make a good selection of packages for a pattern and to decide which of them should be installed automatically and which are optional. To stay with our example, should MySQL or MariaDB be installed?
Extreme example: create a "best desktop" pattern *eg*
Regards,
Christian Boltz
Hey,
On 13.12.2011 18:59, Jörg Stephan wrote:
I think it would really be better if the distribution itself could fit this, it would make everything much easier. So what can I (we) do to improve this?
Learn everything you need to know about the Factory distribution and how to contribute to it on the Factory portal.
http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Factory
Henne
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Andreas Jaeger -
Christian Boltz -
Henne Vogelsang -
Jörg Stephan -
Jörg Stephan -
Per Jessen -
Stephan Kulow -
Steven Sroka -
Wolfgang Rosenauer