June 2015 - openSUSE Project - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse-project] Quick SLES question...
by Mathias Homann 22 Jun '15

22 Jun '15

Hi, Does SLES use systemd, and if so since which release? Cheers MH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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AW: [opensuse-project] Quick SLES question...
by Michael Kromer 22 Jun '15

22 Jun '15

Yes, since SLES 12. Everything before (Any SP-Level) does not use systemd, instead SysV-based init. - mike -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von:Mathias Homann <Mathias.Homann(a)opensuse.org> > Gesendet: Mon 22 Juni 2015 11:56 > An: opensuse-project(a)opensuse.org > Betreff: [opensuse-project] Quick SLES question... > > Hi, > > Does SLES use systemd, and if so since which release? > > Cheers > MH > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org > To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [opensuse-factory] How to name the baby
by Carlos E. R. 18 Jun '15

18 Jun '15

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-06-18 10:21, Jan Engelhardt wrote: > > On Thursday 2015-06-18 02:05, Carlos E. R. wrote: >>> >>> What do you mean by "it will not be"? >> >> That we are not going to have back the original openSUSE, >> understood as more or less what we have had for many years... The >> people that do it decided that they are going to do it >> differently, deriving from SLES instead of from factory. > > SLES is based off Factory, essentially. > Yes, and :42 on SLES. Thus :42 is based indirectly on factory, not directly. The difference is very significant, many implications. (Sending PM copy too, list seems to be down. Posts get rejected) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlWCj78ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VpygCbBximM+BwAVWaY2YyoS52M28W EXkAmwX7q+ui4OUXyDxykvFbz0d2jB/E =8yOz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [opensuse-factory] How to name the baby
by Carlos E. R. 18 Jun '15

18 Jun '15

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-18 01:07, Robert Schweikert wrote: > On 06/17/2015 06:40 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote: >> On 2015-06-18 00:00, Jan Engelhardt wrote: >>> On Wednesday 2015-06-17 20:55, Carlos E. R. wrote: > >>>> Because it is a variant of openSUSE... > >>> This is hardly a usable justficiation. > >>> I don't want any variants, I want _the original_. > >> Me too, but it will not be. > > > Well that will depend on the definition of what _the original_ > means. This may be better debated in yet another thread. However, > lets just get into this here. To me the original is, more or less, what we had for many years. Yes, with modifications on how it was done, but based on factory. I'm not judging. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWCDSoACgkQja8UbcUWM1z+1gD/ZyvkGiVVhamLFvhqMdJNnGol dTu/7Tk6ewN3mt3+dtQA/RBIN39h3vQs2rglu4Jip8FtxRztcbTyCI8CbCuuJxAZ =wgmd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Re: [RFC] / for TSP + 3 others («return of the geekos plushes»)
by Richard Brown 17 Jun '15

17 Jun '15

On 16 June 2015 at 18:26, Françoise Wybrecht <fwybrecht(a)ioda-net.ch> wrote: > > III) "Request for Change" > > From A to G + 3 - openSUSE contributors can agree, desagree or don't mind. > > A) As a change, I would appreciate to see Ancor - If he is OK AND SUSE is OK > - becoming the "TSP team leader" (with a monthly paid hours to assure the > quality of the TSP - timing & communication) : > > agree > desagree > don't mind > > B) As a change, I suggest to "add" two "optional resources supervisors" (for > example 1 SUSE and 1 openSUSE, as Sarah and Sleepwalker, or any other, per, > Frédéric, Christopher ...) - who could be asked to give their opinion in > case the team is not sure to take the fair decision. > > C ) As a change, I request TSP up to 100 % for openSUSE volonteers (*) > working 100 % of the "event time" > (as the video team, as OSC organizers, as mini-summits, as booths (in any > open event), as any openSUSE talk done (in an open event) > > (*) I do not know if SUSE employees can be concerned by TSP or not - but as > far as they do 100 % work on their holliday time - of course the are > (logically) integrated in this change request. > > D ) As a change, I request TSP up to 80 % for openSUSE volonteers working > minimum 50 % of the "event time" > (as helping for booth, taking pictures, writing articles, welcoming ppl > etc.) > > E) As a change, I request TSP maximum 30 % for openSUSE volonteers who are > coming just to see conferences, to share fun and to see friends and do not > have ministers salary - meaning : helping them (when without the TSP, they > cannot come) > (as helping for booth, taking pictures, writing articles, welcoming ppl > etc.) > > F ) As a change, I request at least one "brainstorming and decisions meeting > " (or more) with the concerned people (the board and/or TSP team + SUSE > "financial decision makers - manager) to : > > * find solutions on "HOW can we reduce (+++) the "reimbursement delay" ? or > even give the money to ppl who cannot advance it (what about having a annual > budget for openSUSE TSP ?) > > * as any financial budget has a limit - would it be possible to know the > annual budget for TSP and "which events and actions are mostly appreciated > by the sponsor SUSE & openSUSE teams - seen as having a good impact (can be > suggested as priorities for 2015 or 2016) = give as much informations as > possible to volonteers wishing to help and act. > > Annexe (for the mostly appreciated actions) : > > - mini-summit Asia or Scale were OK (from what I saw, read or heard) > > - are booth still encouraged ? (in openSource events) - are openSUSE talks > encouraged? > > - are hackweek or hack-week-ends encouraged (for example one team wishing to > work 4 days on packaging ... / would the TSP pay travel and hotel ? Would it > be possible in such cases to avoid the TSP and pay directly the hotel + > travel for example.) > > Comment : if you give ideas and money to do that kind of things, I am sure > that more and more contributors will DO and DO more (giving hours and hours > to produce with FUN). Question: Have you discussed any of this with the existing TSP team? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Re: [RFC] / for TSP + 3 others («return of the geekos plushes»)
by Robert Schweikert 17 Jun '15

17 Jun '15

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/16/2015 12:26 PM, Françoise Wybrecht wrote: > PS (@Robert : I just read your "request for ideas for marketing" - > thanks) /_ _//_Request for change mail > > Sommaire_ / > > Introduction I) II) One example III) Request for change (7) IV) > Three more off-topic "Request for Change" V) openSUSE > Guiding_principles conclusion > > /__/_/Introduction/_/:/ > > I) If you (members and contributors) wish to be sure that *I do not > that for myself*, I'm OK to renounce asking for TSP : > > * forever * until december 2015 * until december 2016 * not > necessary > > _/II) OSC15 virtual /__/story/_ : > > Let's take an openSUSE geek working in an middle size enterprise > (he is not very rich, he has a job, a family ..). As he wants very > much to go to OSC this year and *be one of the video team*, he asks > his boss *to take hollidays* (which has to be done/asked in advance > in many enterprises) and family too... Answer is *yes* ... So in > january, he reserves his flight for The Haag (and of course pay it) > - and he finds an hotel around 50 euros (which for him was not > that expensive for a big town). > > So he did fill the TSP form in january. I'll not tell you much > more details ... blabla ... then he *(she ?)* was told that he can > sleep in a dormitory (OK intention was great ... result was less > great ... ok but had to be reminded here) or of course, he was free > to pay his hotel ;-) ... so time passed ... he went back home, send > all documents to the TSP, and ... have to wait a few weeks (from 8 > to much more) to get his "support". > > In the best case, he has to *find* the "TSP amount" from january to > june for the flight (he found 20 to 50 %) > > Nevermind, he is happy with it (thanks to TSP) ... he just wonders > *how a student could come to OSC conference ?** * *end of the > **story - */"Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is > purely coincidental." / > > /_III) "Request for Change" _/ > > From A to G + 3 - openSUSE contributors can agree, desagree or > don't mind. > > A) As a change, I would appreciate to see Ancor -***If he is OK AND > SUSE is OK -* becoming the "TSP team leader" (with a monthly paid > hours*to assure the quality of the TSP* - timing & communication) > : > > * agree * desagree * don't mind > > B) As a change, I suggest to "add" two "optional resources > supervisors" (for example 1 SUSE and 1 openSUSE, as Sarah and > Sleepwalker, or any other, per, Frédéric, Christopher ...) - who > could be asked to *give th**eir opinion in case the team is not > sure *to take *the fair decision**.** * C ) As a change, I request > TSP up to *100 % for **openSUSE volonteers**(*) working 100 % of > the "event time" * (as the video team, as OSC organizers, as > mini-summits, as booths (in any open event), as any openSUSE talk > done (in an open event) > > (*) I do not know if*SUSE employees *can be concerned by TSP or not > - but as far as they do 100 % work on their holliday time - of > course the are (logically) *integrated in this change request.* > > D ) As a change, I request TSP up to *80 % for **openSUSE > volonteers**working minimum 50 % of the "event time" * (as helping > for booth, taking pictures, writing articles, welcoming ppl etc.) > > E) As a change, I request TSP maximum *30 % for **openSUSE > volonteers**who are coming just to see conferences, to share fun > and to see friends* and do not have ministers salary - meaning : > helping them (when without the TSP, they cannot come) (as helping > for booth, taking pictures, writing articles, welcoming ppl etc.) > > F ) As a change, I request**at least *one "brainstorming > and**decisions meeting* " (or more) with the *concerned people (the > board and/or TSP team + SUSE "financial de**cision makers - > manager) *to : > > * find solutions on "HOW can we *reduce* (+++) *the "reimbursement > delay"* ? or evengive the money to ppl who cannot advance it (what > about having a annual budget for openSUSE TSP ?) > > * as any financial budget has a limit - would it be possible to > *know the annual budget for TSP* and *"which events and actions > are mostly appreciated by the sponsor SUSE & openSUSE teams* - seen > as having a good impact (can be suggested as priorities for 2015 > or 2016) = give as much informations as possible to volonteers > wishing to help and act. > > /_Annexe_ (for the mostly appreciated actions) : > > - mini-summit Asia or Scale were OK (from what I saw, read or > heard) > > - are booth still encouraged ? (in openSource events) - are > openSUSE talks encouraged? > > - are hackweek or hack-week-ends encouraged (for example one team > wishing to work 4 days on packaging ... / would the TSP pay travel > and hotel ? Would it be possible in such cases to avoid the TSP > and pay directly the hotel + travel for example.) _ __Comment _: if > you give ideas and money to do that kind of things, I am sure that > more and more contributors will DO and DO more (giving hours and > hours to produce with FUN)./ > > G) As a change, I request to be a bit *more openMind *(Nobody is > perfect, we are all different)*to listen to "project > communication-organisation-suggestions*" on the project list - > > IV) _Three more off-topic "Request for Change"_ > > 1. As a change, I request the *«return of the geekos plushes» *in > the boothboxes - as it was *a strong openSUSE community symbol of > FUN - * > > 2. As a change, I request the *«return of openSUSE t-shirts»* in > the boothboxes (*) > > 3. As a change, I request to be a bit more *informed on the project > list about : what's happening with boothboxes, what is the «new-now > process» , what is clear ? *(sorry if**I did not check all wiki > pages to understand how it works now or why ...) * * > > (*) OK it costs again money, for example for the tshirts, BUT : > t-shirts are part of geeks «culture» (you can get Fosdem tshirts, > Scale, Postgre & all other events ...) and they can be sold too => > the money can be given to sponsor the "openSource global event > organization" (FOSDEM, KDE, Gnome, Capitole du libre etc etc) > > so it would be nice to see «2015 openSUSE tshirts» (OK I am not > designer - not able to DO it - but able to tell that the marketing > start with each of us when wearing an openSUSE t-shirt with a big > SMILE) instead of seeing all the time the "openSUSE 4 years old > t-shirts". > > _/V) one openSUSE Guiding_principles/_ > > We value... ... respect for other persons and their contributions, > for other opinions and beliefs. We listen to arguments and address > problems in a constructive and open way. We believe that a diverse > community based on mutual respect is the base for a creative and > productive environment enabling the project to be truly successful. > We don't tolerate social discrimination ... > > We value... ... transparency of the decision making processes, > transparency of communication and transparency of work and > collaboration processes. That includes openly answering questions, > providing all relevant information, and actively keeping all > involved parties informed. > > > /_Conclusion_/ : > > it had to be done to close my 5 questions mails (11.06.2015) > > (= to do all I CAN DO to suggest TSP ameliorations for all openSUSE > volonteers + ask for a bit more transparence/informations and a bit > more tolerance). > > I feel sorry if you don't understand my point of view > > which is : technic is great, openSUSE distribution is great, > > AND "human, organisation & communication" is great too. > > Thanks if you contribuate to this request mail ;-) and sorry in > advance for my english or possible other mistakes I can have done > > have fun ... /Françoise/ > > It is fair enough to ask question and make proposals, but why now? Why throw yet another subject into the pile? Why could this not have waited for a month until some of the other topics that generate long mail threads have settled down? Considering that many people are consumed by long e-mail threads with many different important topics, why make it more difficult for those by starting yet another thread? Given the current state do you think there is sufficient bandwidth to have a reasonable detailed discussions about this topic at this point? I don't get it. Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei(a)suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgF/fAAoJEE4FgL32d2Uk9QMH/RlHhka4g+uQakruEzGbv6Pu jaXdDphogUZWl3RNHhZ5BjQOPB38CEAU6TGtvfZ0MGBvGO6TkNAIOdL7p+1dEeH/ vFr9sD0lFWOJ7kJd7YxEY74A6VLI9MeI8MSnZcf1GbA1CdbmLURhw1zK3vU5LLzN IPkWreEjb+6bgukCQFvKqBorsVScf/B+W2AVsetReeebtrgl5cCmizPI27oP3fF6 NcjlzynbXBmpfYe3Cfez/6Cw7LQMI/bAg3pnpPbgm7jq8kdr8DGEu+k+24S7hxKJ Ct7SJS+HpufARBpc6q5e448WAJ4wz9jC+aeoldZYXT0s+e8VR1s2hmUAFznRTfM= =aqCT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Isn't it possible to change the "just do it"
by Françoise Wybrecht 16 Jun '15

16 Jun '15

Isn't it possible to change the "just do it" ? (@Henné, of course) to find a new boosting sentence ? longer mail ... couldn't be avoid ;) OK a geek is used to work a lot alone ... but for sure most f us are here to share, collaborate, pair-program or brainstorm a new sorftware. But "Co is King". Coworking, coproduction, cocréation... (I read that a few weeks ago) and a community project (in theory for sure we all agree) depend on marketing and design too ... Marketing IS NOT just writing a blog or an article ... (!!) Sharing a new on linkedin can be part of marketing, but marketing is not just a "shit" todo boring list ... I deeply believe that any "shit todo" can become FUN as soon as we are a group having fun - co-acting ! So on this project mailing list ... we should be able to share ideas too, as : I have an idea of ... without being sure to get a : go and do it ... ALONE ! oh that's the fun ! this is a great way to bring all members/contributors to the silence. (kinda : do it or shut up) great meritocracy ;-) I'm sure it's not what you were wishing ... in 2011, an openSUSE team went for a marketing week in LA (travel and hotel paid) - and they did produce a lot (as well as articles, design, ideas and fun) - and each of them were very tired at the end but they (quite sure) all keep a great memory of that. Marketing & design IS not saying "just do it". It's a group work, team, fun ... or it's not, and nothing. We (as a community) have to change first our way of seing things before things will change ... or not. Isn't it possible to change the "just do it" ? and (by the way) "we never find contributors to do the shit ?" PS - Message to the elder (wise) members : In all group and community, a few people influence the community (and openSUSE is not an exception). You can easily do the list (= the 5 to 10 members/contributors that you decide to read when they talk on the mailing list like Henné, Kulow, Cornelius etc......). You, the "(wise) elder influenced openSUSE guys", even if you have very less time for that, have a responsability in the "project future", you (conscious or not) give the global mood on this mailing list ... we love to believe that we are an open community, but concretely, we just use very traditional human habits. When one wish to evolve (and we can prefer to regress) ... the "just do it" ... is like "leave us work" - "we have no time for abstract ideas with no future" - "do what you want, as long as we can go on our job" etc ... I say it ... I just do it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE available on Scaleway ARM Cloud servers
by Paul Gonin 16 Jun '15

16 Jun '15

Hi ! openSUSE is now available on Scaleway ARM based cloud servers (armv7 arch) Have a look and give it a try : https://hub.scaleway.com/opensuse.html Rgds Paul -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] 6 : less than 40 different ppl did send a mail on this list ...
by PatrickD Garvey 15 Jun '15

15 Jun '15

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Robert Schweikert <rjschwei(a)suse.com> wrote: > On 06/15/2015 04:44 PM, PatrickD Garvey wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 11:54 AM, Robert Schweikert >> <rjschwei(a)suse.com> wrote: >>> The process is open and Stephan tried to start the name >>> discussion [1]. However it quickly drifted away and focused on >>> something else. >>> >>> [1] >>> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-06/msg00203.html >> >> The process may be open, but I find it very difficult to locate >> and follow discussions like the one you reference. lists.o.o >> displays 79 separate lists. Even if I narrow that to -announce, >> -features, -security-announce, -factory, -kernel, -packaging, and >> -project, that's a lot of reading to do to make the effort to know >> where the critical discussions are happening. Does no one else see >> this as lack of quality communication? > > Yes and no. We have made an effort over the last couple of years to > reduce the number of lists and we have had some successes. Just this > Spring we closed and/or combined about 10 lists :) That's the "yes > people do agree part of the answer ;) > Thank you for the effort and congratulations on the partial success. That's as good as it gets in a large community, per my experience. > The "no" part is that "one just has to know what's important to once > interest. For example if you are a packager subscribe to -factory, > - -packaging, -project and -announce. > > Announce is a very low volume list. Everything that surrounds the > distro will be discussed on -factory and/or -packaging. Everyone > involved with the project should be subscribed to -project. Although > as currently the case -project produces a lot of mail that can be > difficult to deal with. At other times it is really quiet. > > In short, yes there is an issue and we have made an effort to reduce > the number of lists, but we will never get down to a sufficiently > small list that one can subscribe to all of them in the hopes to keep > track of all the outreaches of the project. > > >> >> Because I haven't been following -factory, >> https://youtu.be/BH99TSrfvq0 "OSC15 - Richard Brown - The Future >> is unwritten" appeared to be a totally arbitrary decision by a >> closed clique and I didn't fully understand what Richard was trying >> to announce. His presentation looked like I was supposed to know >> some history that I had not heard was being created. >> >> How has the openSUSE community worked this problem before? Or has >> it ever tried? >> > > Well, this is a new twist on an existing problem. The problem is > really "how do we deal with big changes?" To that effect I, as part of > my role on the openSUSE Board have drafted some change guidelines > which we as the board had planned to post to the wiki for discussion > after oSC. However, given that, unfortunately, the project is in > turmoil and everything is being questioned, from membership to the way > we build the distribution I decided to hold off on the change > guidelines until things calm down a bit. May I suggest the turmoil is the result of the isolated communication that occurred. I'm fairly certain the Board knew nothing of the merger with MicroFocus any more than a day before Richard Brown published https://news.opensuse.org/2014/09/17/statement-on-the-recent-merger-announc… But from that time forward, anyone discussing something as tumultuous as the release of the SLE sources to the Factory should have been cross-posting broadly. The habit of the sub-community to talk among themselves about everything without examining whether the larger community might be interested misses the opportunity to lead the discussion. Please don't be afraid to publish your rough drafts of a wiki article as an effort to lead. Many folks in FLOSS have advocated Radical Transparency. I think such is ofttimes the appropriate bias. > In any case from the project perspective the principles are always the > same. Those that do the work get to decide, no matter what. Meaning no > one in the community is in a position to tell another contributor what > to do. My perception here is that some of the doers are working in an isolated communication environment and leaving out some other doers that are equally qualified to discuss the effects of any decisions that need be made. Besides, the work the excluded doers are doing is directly enabled/disabled by the decisions to take a certain path. Awareness of the needs of the FULL community is hard to maintain, but must be fostered. > The openSUSE board is only there to guide and facilitate > conversation and compromise if necessary. I think you understand I think the facilitation part of that responsibility came up short this time. I don't envy the complexity the Board faces, I thank them for their effort to face it. > Only if all other attempts > fail is the board in a position to make a decision. It has never, as > far as I can remember, come to this. If there are people that do not > like the decision they are free to continue what is being done rather > than following the change. > > This, what could be considered extreme, approach to the project is > also difficult to deal with and I claim is overwhelming for many new > people. > > Anyway, I am glad you are interested to help, just stick with it, at > some point things will fir together. If you have questions feel free > to ask me directly or on the mailing list. For the most part questions > do not spark very long discussions. Although this last question > probably would have, especially at the moment. > > Thanks for asking, > Robert Thank you for bringing growing enlightenment. I intend to make the effort worthwhile. PatrickD -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Fwd: [opensuse-project] 6 : less than 40 different ppl did send a mail on this list ...
by PatrickD Garvey 15 Jun '15

15 Jun '15

I'm sorry, I meant to send this to the list. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: PatrickD Garvey <patrickdgarveyt(a)gmail.com> Date: Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [opensuse-project] 6 : less than 40 different ppl did send a mail on this list ... To: Robert Schweikert <rjschwei(a)suse.com> On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 11:54 AM, Robert Schweikert <rjschwei(a)suse.com> wrote: > On 06/15/2015 02:35 PM, Angelos Tzotsos wrote: >> On 06/15/2015 08:03 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote: >>> I am not certain I would call it an "invitation" but in principal >>> that is the way its is. The release manager that we have and that >>> happens to get paid by SUSE is now going to build a distribution >>> around SLES sources. As a contributor he has every right, just >>> like everyone else, to work on what ever is interesting to him or >>> whatever his employer feels like he should be working on. >>> >>> Why is it that we in the openSUSE community would expect this >>> stuff should work differently for us than it does in any other >>> open source project? How many contributions are there in the >>> kernel from @intel.com e-mail addresses that fix issues on ARM? I >>> bet very few if any. SUSE thinks that there is benefit to have a >>> release based around the SLES sources. Lengthy and reasonable >>> arguments have been made that this also happens to be a benefit >>> to the openSUSE project. I agree there is benefit. Yes, you can >>> look up every response I wrote in those threads and in case it is >>> not obvious I think this is not a good idea. Well, the concept of >>> :42 has it's target audience, and in and of itself is a good >>> idea. But from my perspective we are vacating the middle of the >>> spectrum by not having the current release model continue and I >>> do not like it! However, I stated my case, the decision has been >>> made and I cannot and do not expect that anyone else will do my >>> bidding. It is now time to put up or shut up. If a yearly >>> Factory snapshot based release is so important to me, and others, >>> I/we can learn what it takes to build a release in OBS and do the >>> work, or I can decide to get over it and use :42, or I can choose >>> to use something else entirely. No one is being forced to do >>> anything they don't want to just because the release manager >>> decided that he would rather spend his time building something >>> new. >> What if there was a team of people from the community wanting to >> continue the previous release model? We would have openSUSE 42.1 >> and openSUSE 13.3? My point is: who gives the power to one group of >> people to use the openSUSE name for their new distribution without >> a vote from the members or at least a board decision through an >> open process? > > The process is open and Stephan tried to start the name discussion > [1]. However it quickly drifted away and focused on something else. > > > [1] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-06/msg00203.html The process may be open, but I find it very difficult to locate and follow discussions like the one you reference. lists.o.o displays 79 separate lists. Even if I narrow that to -announce, -features, -security-announce, -factory, -kernel, -packaging, and -project, that's a lot of reading to do to make the effort to know where the critical discussions are happening. Does no one else see this as lack of quality communication? Because I haven't been following -factory, https://youtu.be/BH99TSrfvq0 "OSC15 - Richard Brown - The Future is unwritten" appeared to be a totally arbitrary decision by a closed clique and I didn't fully understand what Richard was trying to announce. His presentation looked like I was supposed to know some history that I had not heard was being created. How has the openSUSE community worked this problem before? Or has it ever tried? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner(a)opensuse.org

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