December 2020 - openSUSE Project - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Board Meeting Minutes 10-11-2020
by Simon Lees 09 Dec '20

09 Dec '20

Present: Axel, Gerald, Simon, Stasiek, Vinz, Doug DeMaio (first part) Excused: Marina == Merch discussions == * Discussions around adding an additional merch provider as we were approached by them. == Statistics == * metrics.opensuse.org shows wrong figures due to no 15.2 * Doug will Email Heroes to see if someone can fix it. (Doug left the meeting) == Missing Minutes == * Will remind people == Meeting time == * Create a fallback slot? * Keep the slot - Have 21:00 CET tues as a backup. * Probably only a couple of meetings left this year == Board Elections == * Gerald will follow up with the committee

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Questions for Board candidates
by Vojtěch Zeisek 08 Dec '20

08 Dec '20

Hello, dear candidates, I'd have few questions. :-) First of all, it's pleasure to see platforms of such a good candidates. Regardless results, I'm sure the updated Board will be excellent. I'd like to ask all of You (platforms [1-6]) for which of Your activities (read ways You help to improve the Project) do You need (or is highly helpful) to be Board member? I mean for which of Your targets, aims, goals, thoughts, agendas or objectives You need to be in Board, why is it necessary or helpful? Or asking from the opposite side, what of Your aims You can't do as any other community member? Second, how do You understand the sentence "The purpose of the openSUSE Board is to lead the overall project." ([7], bit longer version at [8]) regarding the "main tasks" listed there and lack of any sort of executive power? Which kind of leadership (or governance), if any, do You have in mind in association with our Board? Current members of the Board who would like to be re-elected (AFAIK simotek and DocB) I'd like to ask what are their major successes in the ending tenure. Regarding Your 2018 platforms [9-10], are there any aims, goals or thoughts You were planning, but for whatever reason rethink or failed? How did Your point of view developed in past 2 years? (BTW: Simotek's 2020 platform links to category "Board election 2018" while category "Board election 2020" linked from other platforms doesn't exist. I know it's wiki, but I'm not sure if only election committee is allowed to manage these things or so.:) When reading plans of DocB [11], Knurpht [12], Mark [13] and bit also Neal [14] I have obsessive feeling that You all are touching, from Your personal perspective and experience, similar problem/group of problems regarding communication among (sub)groups of members etc., coordination, and even possible some leadership/governance. If my impression is correct, I wonder what are Your intersections, shared points, and what are discrepancies among You? It looks to me that You use different words to say very similar things. Is my impression correct? DocB, Mark, simotek and Neal mention creation of some sort of foundation, while Knurpht and m4u9 don't mention it. Knurpht and m4u9, do You think there should be no foundation at all? Or You just don't have strong opinion on that topic? DocB, Mark, simotek and Neal, do You have any particular idea how that foundation should look like? What are main advantages and risks of this transition? All of You, what do You think are main threats and challenges for our dear Project in near future? How to be prepared? I'm looking forward fruitful discussion, V. [1] <https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_2020_platform_DocB> [2] <https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_2020_platform_Knurpht> [3] <https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_2020_platform_m4u9> [4] <https://en.opensuse.org/ openSUSE:Board_election_2020_platform_Mark_Stopka> [5] <https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_2020_platform_simotek> [6] <https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_2020_platform_-_Neal_Gompa> [7] <https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board> [8] <https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Guiding_principles#Governance> [9] <https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_2018_platform_Knurpht> [10] <https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_2018_platform_simotek> [11] <https://en.opensuse.org/ openSUSE:Board_election_2020_platform_DocB#Targets_for_the_next_season> [12] <https://en.opensuse.org/ openSUSE:Board_election_2020_platform_Knurpht#Aims.2C_Goals.2C_Thoughts> [13] <https://en.opensuse.org/ openSUSE:Board_election_2020_platform_Mark_Stopka#Agenda_for_the_current_board_member_term> [14] <https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_2020_platform_-_Neal_Gompa#…> -- Vojtěch Zeisek https://trapa.cz/ Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux https://www.opensuse.org/

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End of 2020 openSUSE community poll
by Adrien Glauser 08 Dec '20

08 Dec '20

Hello, I've just stitched together ideas for an "end of the year survey" to probe satisfaction & use cases. The first draft is visible at https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/oS-2020-poll Reasoning: - it's fun to fill end-of-of the years surveys: it gives a sense of closure and know doesn't like to express themselves?? - surveys are useful for the community: it builds self-knowledge - surveys are useful for the current and future Board, especially in election times, as it may translate into better governance since a Boards' decision can build on what people want, expect, and feel like. y/n ? when would be the best time window for sending? Cheers, Adrien

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[opensuse-project] About shaming people on the list
by Neal Gompa 07 Dec '20

07 Dec '20

Hey all, We seem to have a problem on the openSUSE mailing list of shaming people and assuming ill intent. This is exemplified by the following thread excerpt: On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 11:35 PM Felix Miata <mrmazda(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > > Vojtěch Zeisek composed on 2020-11-27 10:20 (UTC+0100): > > > Bottom-posting is the standard here. Let's keep it so. > > > A: Yes. > >> Q: Are you sure? > >> > A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. > >> > > Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? > > +++ The problem with this is threefold: 1. You are deliberately shaming someone publicly 2. You are piling on the shame by reinforcing it 3. You are assuming that people cannot learn any other way (or ill intent) None of this is actually *helpful*. And I would wager to say that the majority of folks just flat out don't really care if it's top posted or bottom posted. I personally don't. My email client collapses the quotes the same regardless. I realize that to some extent, I'm doing this too by posting this message. But I have been seeing this to various degrees for *years* and it's not only unhelpful, it literally scares people away from our community. And I cannot stomach it anymore. The openSUSE community is intended to be a welcoming place that allows a variety of people from all over the world to work together to make great things. And our Netiquette (which is now linked at the bottom of *every single email from the list*) declares this kind of behavior as undesirable. It does occur to me that a large majority of the people on all openSUSE lists do not know we have rules for the mailing lists. This is why Stasiek and I decided that they would be added to the footer of all emails that travel through the list server. I would like to reiterate that there are much kinder ways of helping people change their behaviors, and that you should always attempt to privately help the person who may be inadvertently doing the wrong thing. Shaming them publicly is a great way to scare people away and even potentially make existing folks leave. Please reconsider the next time you think about doing it. And consider how *you* would feel if someone did it to you. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!

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2020 Board Elections: my platform
by Mark Stopka 07 Dec '20

07 Dec '20

Hi all, my election platform is now finished, I would appreciate any feedback from your side.... https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_2020_platform_Mark_Stopka -- Best regards / S pozdravem, BSc. Mark Stopka, BBA Managing Partner (at) PERLUR Group mobile: +420 704 373 561 website: www.perlur.cloud

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Netiquette on openSUSE MLs
by Thorsten Bro 05 Dec '20

05 Dec '20

Hi list, sorry to bring this up on the project level and I'm sorry for the 'mostly reading' users like me - to have one mail more in our inboxes, but the behaviour shown by several users over the last days and even before is just annoying me a lot and it might annoy others as well. We have a netiquette on all of our lists. You can find it here. https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette There is clearly stated, that a discussion is perfectly fine, but it shouldn't go completely off topic. Over the past month we had several cases of personal one-vs-one fights on this mailinglist or even one-vs-many. Which does not only show a very unprofessional view of our project to the outside world, but also is clearly off-topic. It's cool to discuss questions with candidates here and it's cool to discuss general aspects like this one here, which affects the whole project, on this list. What is not so nice is, if two members end up in a 1-on-1 discussion about nit picking in 10+ mails of each of them. How about a direct conversation and just remove the list from CC then. Remember that with every mail you drop here, you might use someones most valuable thing - time. If we all just work a little bit on our own attitude how we live this Netiquette and our own rules - it might become a better public forum here and in the end - way less mails to read for everyone. How cool would that one to be achieved? And without further lines, I'd just like to remember everybody that proper quoting, proper threading and proper formatting is part of the Netiquette. If you see yourself with a bad format or threading on the list, maybe even splitting up a thread unwanted, please check your mail client settings - that would be great. With all the best wishes. Stay healthy. -- Thorsten Bro <tbro(a)opensuse.org> - Member of openSUSE Heroes - https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Heroes - Member of openSUSE VideoTeam - https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Video

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Netiquette on openSUSE MLs
by Thorsten Bro 05 Dec '20

05 Dec '20

Hi list, sorry to bring this up on the project level and I'm sorry for the 'mostly reading' users like me - to have one mail more in our inboxes, but the behaviour shown by several users over the last days and even before is just annoying me a lot and it might annoy others as well. We have a netiquette on all of our lists. You can find it here. https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette There is clearly stated, that a discussion is perfectly fine, but it shouldn't go completely off topic. Over the past month we had several cases of personal one-vs-one fights on this mailinglist or even one-vs-many. Which does not only show a very unprofessional view of our project to the outside world, but also is clearly off-topic. It's cool to discuss questions with candidates here and it's cool to discuss general aspects like this one here, which affects the whole project, on this list. What is not so nice is, if two members end up in a 1-on-1 discussion about nit picking in 10+ mails of each of them. How about a direct conversation and just remove the list from CC then. Remember that with every mail you drop here, you might use someones most valuable thing - time. If we all just work a little bit on our own attitude how we live this Netiquette and our own rules - it might become a better public forum here and in the end - way less mails to read for everyone. How cool would that one to be achieved? And without further lines, I'd just like to remember everybody that proper quoting, proper threading and proper formatting is part of the Netiquette. If you see yourself with a bad format or threading on the list, maybe even splitting up a thread unwanted, please check your mail client settings - that would be great. With all the best wishes. Stay healthy. -- Thorsten Bro <tbro(a)opensuse.org> - Member of openSUSE Heroes - https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Heroes - Member of openSUSE VideoTeam - https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Video

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Meet your Candidates: Building Trust and Friendliness through Engagement with Voters
by Adrien Glauser 04 Dec '20

04 Dec '20

Hello, I've said it all in the subject of this message. Thanks for your attention and have a nice day. Just kidding. How about we set up some Ask Me Anything Session / round-table / dialogue between Candidates and the openSUSE community? Perhaps pulling this out for the ongoing election is a tall order, but what about the next one? You hit four birds with one stone: 1) Motivate and help the candidate to share and express their ideas. 2) Get the community interested in Board things. 3) Get the individuals in the community feel part of the community by gathering them around one common objective. 4) Get the individuals in the community to better know the community and each other because it's always interested to meet people over politics. y/n ? Assuming yes the 2 next questions that naturally come up are: a) sync or async? By which I mean: Should participants exchange get & answer questions live or offline? Sync would be a Jitsi Meeting, async would be a forum or ML. b) on one or distinct "channels"? By which I mean: Should participants talk within a single context (i.e. one single ML) or via separate channels, one for each candidate (i.e. distinct wiki pages or discord rooms). Please don't reply by expressing aversion or love for communication tech stack A or B. If you like the idea and keep in mind a) and b), it won't be difficult to infer the communication tech stack you'd favour. Cheers, Adrien

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Heads up: Removal of openSUSE:Jump:15.2 project in OBS
by Lubos Kocman 03 Dec '20

03 Dec '20

Ahoy openSUSE! We'd like to remove openSUSE:Jump:15.2 project which will be no longer developed as all the developmed is now happening directly in Leap 15.3 Alpha. Removal of the project to free resources was previously dicussed as part of Release Engineering meeting and will be initiated today by Adrian. We're removing it mainly to free resources. In case you've missed the previous annoucement: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2020-11/msg00001.html Enrollment of Jump concept to 15.3 received blessing from openSUSE Board shortly after the No-go decision for Leap 15.2.1 https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Jump/Leap15.2.1:GoNogo Thank you very much for your understanding -- Lubos Kocman, Release Manager openSUSE Leap SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg - Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer

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openSUSE Conference 2020 Videos
by Jason Evans 03 Dec '20

03 Dec '20

Hi all, I was going to post this to the openSUSE Conference mailing list, but that appears to be defunct. I would like to know whether there will be any more videos from the conference uploaded to YouTube or if that is all that were recorded. Thanks. Best Regards, Jason

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