End of 2020 openSUSE community poll
Hello, I've just stitched together ideas for an "end of the year survey" to probe satisfaction & use cases. The first draft is visible at https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/oS-2020-poll Reasoning: - it's fun to fill end-of-of the years surveys: it gives a sense of closure and know doesn't like to express themselves?? - surveys are useful for the community: it builds self-knowledge - surveys are useful for the current and future Board, especially in election times, as it may translate into better governance since a Boards' decision can build on what people want, expect, and feel like. y/n ? when would be the best time window for sending? Cheers, Adrien
On 05/12/2020 18.34, Adrien Glauser wrote:
Hello,
I've just stitched together ideas for an "end of the year survey" to probe satisfaction & use cases. The first draft is visible at https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/oS-2020-poll
Caveats I see. 8. As a continuation of SuSE. I did not learn of oS in any of those places listed. What I learnt about was SuSE much before oS existed. 9. What was the last operating system you've been using the most on your main desktop machine before getting to use an oS distro? MsDOS. I started earlier than you assume, as many other people. I would not include it under "Windows". In fact, we could be using more than one system, because at the time one first booted MsDOS, then one started Windows, which some considered "an application" on top of MsDOS. Similar to XWindows. You could perhaps ask "MsDOS and/or Windows" to be inclusive. And then, the question #10 can't be answered properly, being an obsolete os. 12. I have several GPU of different kinds. Can't answer. Need multiple choice. 21. You forget translators. 32. one can be several things. Or changed over time. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Hi Carlos, thanks very much for taking the time to read through.
8. As a continuation of SuSE. I did not learn of oS in any of those places listed. What I learnt about was SuSE much before oS existed.
There is an <other __> field, with an '__' for the user to fill in. I think it takes care of cases like yours.
9. MS-DOS
Okay why not. Added another <other __> field under 9. Did the same for 16 for consistency.
12. Multiple GPU/CPU combinations.
Okay, turned option to multi-selectable.
21. Missing translators.
Good catch. Added translators.
32
Someone else added 32-35, I just noticed. Added multi-selectable where relevant. @Person-who-added-32-35: Thank you. Thanks again Carlos!
On 05/12/2020 23.37, Adrien Glauser wrote:
Hi Carlos, thanks very much for taking the time to read through.
8. As a continuation of SuSE. I did not learn of oS in any of those places listed. What I learnt about was SuSE much before oS existed.
There is an <other __> field, with an '__' for the user to fill in. I think it takes care of cases like yours.
Ah, I didn't know.
9. MS-DOS
Okay why not. Added another <other __> field under 9. Did the same for 16 for consistency.
12. Multiple GPU/CPU combinations.
Okay, turned option to multi-selectable.
21. Missing translators.
Good catch. Added translators.
32
Someone else added 32-35, I just noticed. Added multi-selectable where relevant.
@Person-who-added-32-35: Thank you.
Thanks again Carlos!
Welcome :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Hello, Am Samstag, 5. Dezember 2020, 18:34:35 CET schrieb Adrien Glauser:
I've just stitched together ideas for an "end of the year survey" to probe satisfaction & use cases. The first draft is visible at https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/oS-2020-poll
I took the liberty to add a "VM" option to question 10. (Maybe that would also make sense for question 17?) For question 12 - did you mean GPU instead of CPU? For questions 9 and 16, maybe offer an option "none, I started with openSUSE"? On a more general note: Having many questions makes sense to gather information, but OTOH I have a feeling that filling this survey will take > 20 minutes, and that might scare people away ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz -- It's hard to learn how to ride a bike on the road while watching someone else do it from the sidewalk sitting on your trike :) [David C. Rankin in opensuse-factory]
Christian Boltz wrote:
Hello,
Am Samstag, 5. Dezember 2020, 18:34:35 CET schrieb Adrien Glauser:
I've just stitched together ideas for an "end of the year survey" to probe satisfaction & use cases. The first draft is visible at https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/oS-2020-poll
I took the liberty to add a "VM" option to question 10. (Maybe that would also make sense for question 17?)
For question 12 - did you mean GPU instead of CPU?
For questions 9 and 16, maybe offer an option "none, I started with openSUSE"?
How about "SuSE Linux" ? I picked up my first copy at Hugendubel in Munich in 1996, first using it as a server/gateway, then by around 2001 I tossed out OS/2 and Windows and went full KDE. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.4°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
Adrien Glauser wrote:
Hi Per,
Where does SUSE Linux fit?
It's another Linux distrbution. The option is there for both desktop (9) and server (16) use cases.
Yup, I did see it, I just thought maybe "SuSE Linux" deserved a more prominent place :-) After all, the first switch to "openSUSE" was mostly in name only. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.0°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On 07/12/2020 11.02, Per Jessen wrote:
Adrien Glauser wrote:
Hi Per,
Where does SUSE Linux fit?
It's another Linux distrbution. The option is there for both desktop (9) and server (16) use cases.
Yup, I did see it, I just thought maybe "SuSE Linux" deserved a more prominent place :-) After all, the first switch to "openSUSE" was mostly in name only.
Yes, "SuSE Linux" doesn't refer to the enterprise version, but the plain user version that was the direct predecessor of openSUSE, either downloaded gratis or boxed. Thus SUSE desktop or server are not it. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 07.12.20 11:57, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Yes, "SuSE Linux" doesn't refer to the enterprise version, but the plain user version that was the direct predecessor of openSUSE, either downloaded gratis or boxed. [...]
Just a nit: That one was still called SUSE Linux ;) We changed capitalization twenty years ago and the last SUSE Linux box were spelled with all caps in the company name. So, no need to change case here ;) But SUSE Linux as predecessor of openSUSE is so ancient, I would not mention it anymore, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@suse.com Twitter: jaegerandi SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D 90409 Nürnberg (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) GF: Felix Imendörffer GPG fingerprint = EF18 1673 38C4 A372 86B1 E699 5294 24A3 FF91 2ACB
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On 07.12.20 11:57, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Yes, "SuSE Linux" doesn't refer to the enterprise version, but the plain user version that was the direct predecessor of openSUSE, either downloaded gratis or boxed. [...]
Just a nit: That one was still called SUSE Linux ;)
Amazing how that lowercase 'u' sticks in one's mind ...
But SUSE Linux as predecessor of openSUSE is so ancient, I would not mention it anymore,
Some of the other options are even older, but yeah, I guess it's not so important. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.7°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On 07/12/2020 12.30, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On 07.12.20 11:57, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Yes, "SuSE Linux" doesn't refer to the enterprise version, but the plain user version that was the direct predecessor of openSUSE, either downloaded gratis or boxed. [...]
Just a nit: That one was still called SUSE Linux ;) We changed capitalization twenty years ago and the last SUSE Linux box were spelled with all caps in the company name. So, no need to change case here ;)
But SUSE Linux as predecessor of openSUSE is so ancient, I would not mention it anymore,
Then I can not answer what I was using before openSUSE... For instance: 8. Where did you learn about openSUSE in a way that -- you think -- was instrumental in motivating you to use an openSUSE distribution as a desktop workstation? I did not learn about openSUSE, I learnt about SuSE. I can not answer question 8 as formulated. Similarly, I can't answer question 9 properly. 9. What was the last operating system you've been using the most on your main desktop machine before getting to use an openSUSE distribution? - another Linux distribution, please specify: __ - Windows - macOS - chromeOS - some BSD flavour - MS-DOS - OS/2 - none, never used another operating system before using an openSUSE distribution - something else __ Because before openSUSE I used SUSE, and before SUSE I used SuSE, and before that I uses MsDOS, which is the intended reply - but the question asks about openSUSE and does not include the predecessors. Similarly question 10. Yes, I'm being nitpicky. But I have been using *SUSE for more than 20 years and I'm proud of it, and I want the poll to consider us oldies. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Mon 2020-12-07, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Because before openSUSE I used SUSE, and before SUSE I used SuSE, and before that I uses MsDOS, which is the intended reply
Yes, I'm being nitpicky. But I have been using *SUSE for more than 20 years and I'm proud of it, and I want the poll to consider us oldies.
I assume the purpose of the poll is not to appease those taking it, but to gain valuable intelligence on how to improve and drive openSUSE forward. And I'll point out there are "another Linux distribution" and "something else" options, so those of us who insist can specify CP/M and Ultrix. (Me, I won't; see above.) I *strongly* second Doug's point: Let's keep this poll sufficiently short and simple. Wider input over teeny details. Gerald
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2020-12-07 at 18:52 +0100, Gerald Pfeifer wrote:
On Mon 2020-12-07, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Because before openSUSE I used SUSE, and before SUSE I used SuSE, and before that I uses MsDOS, which is the intended reply
Yes, I'm being nitpicky. But I have been using *SUSE for more than 20 years and I'm proud of it, and I want the poll to consider us oldies.
I assume the purpose of the poll is not to appease those taking it, but to gain valuable intelligence on how to improve and drive openSUSE forward.
And I'll point out there are "another Linux distribution" and "something else" options, so those of us who insist can specify CP/M and Ultrix. (Me, I won't; see above.)
I *strongly* second Doug's point: Let's keep this poll sufficiently short and simple. Wider input over teeny details.
Then I will have to leave some questions blank. If that is not possible, I will not answer the poll at all, because it is not inclusive :-( - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHYEARECADYWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCX85tPhgcY2FybG9zLmUu ckBvcGVuc3VzZS5vcmcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VtdgCfX8xcxCNWLciZ1xxPlCA3tZdY lZgAmwb2NkbfB8epb+nRUTIes5syuxff =rqLG -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Mon, 2020-12-07 at 18:58 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Then I will have to leave some questions blank. If that is not possible, I will not answer the poll at all, because it is not inclusive :-(
Considering on the Factory, Support, and Users mailinglists you post over 2x more than anyone else on those lists, I don't think the Project is exactly going to mourn the absence of your feedback in this case.
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:11 am, Richard Brown
On Mon, 2020-12-07 at 18:58 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Then I will have to leave some questions blank. If that is not possible, I will not answer the poll at all, because it is not inclusive :-(
I tend to agree with Carlos here. Making all responses required may contribute to response bias, since it increases the chances of certain people abandoning the pool.
Considering on the Factory, Support, and Users mailinglists you post over 2x more than anyone else on those lists, I don't think the Project is exactly going to mourn the absence of your feedback in this case.
The more the merrier Richard! Frequent contributions indicate a healthy community. Carlos, if you really do contribute 2x more than everyone else, then way to go! :) Everyone's opinion matters. David Mulder Labs Software Engineer, Samba SUSE 1800 Novell Place Provo, UT 84606 (P)+1 801.861.6571 dmulder@suse.com http://www.suse.com
Heya Christian, thanks for reading and raising these points. > VM option under questions 10, 17. I don't think we need that. See, the point of 10, 17 is to measure the "distance" that separates the user from a full conversion to an oS tech stack. Now the distance diffence between "I still have to use non-oS the stack on another physical machine" and "I still have to use non-oS tech stack on some virtual machine" is negligible, as far as improving adoption and quality of life for users of an oS tech stack -- the two biggest goals which this survey has its eyes set upon. So much so that I'd prefer lumping the two scenarios together, as in: - I still needs it and using it on another machine (physical or virtual) I've amended 10, 17 according to this counter-proposal. I hope it's OK for you. > How to answer 9, 10 if one started with oS? OK. I think this will be statistically insignificant but for the sake of covering the entire logical space, I've added an option to fix that. > Many questions is a bother. It is. If the folks from survey.opensuse.org allow me to move on I'll be able to see exactly how the web thing operates, and to come up with a leaner version, for example by conditionalizing certain questions to certain answers as already hinted in the list. Also some questions can be packed together depending on how the UI works. Have a nice evening, Adrien
Hi Adrien, On 12/5/20 6:34 PM, Adrien Glauser wrote:
Hello,
I've just stitched together ideas for an "end of the year survey" to probe satisfaction & use cases. The first draft is visible at https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/oS-2020-poll
Reasoning: - it's fun to fill end-of-of the years surveys: it gives a sense of closure and know doesn't like to express themselves?? - surveys are useful for the community: it builds self-knowledge - surveys are useful for the current and future Board, especially in election times, as it may translate into better governance since a Boards' decision can build on what people want, expect, and feel like.
y/n ? when would be the best time window for sending?
How long did you want to keep the survey open for? Is the plan to do it on survey.opensuse.org? I can write up a post about it on news.o.o. and the marketing team can help with social media. I would just need the link and dates of when it opens and closes. It would be good to also put the results on news.o.o. Most of the surveys we've been doing recently have run for about 14 days. Maybe Dec. 14 - Dec. 28? v/r Doug
Hello Adrien, looks like a good idea. You might want to send request to admin@opensuse.org to set up an account on survey.opensuse.org for you. We've had problem to log-in the last time when I tried to do that for Guillaume. I recall that Lars had same issue with my first account. So admin@ is a safer bet than me :-) I'll be happy to show you how to add survey. Lubos On Mon, 2020-12-07 at 13:28 +0100, ddemaio wrote:
Hi Adrien,
On 12/5/20 6:34 PM, Adrien Glauser wrote:
Hello,
I've just stitched together ideas for an "end of the year survey" to probe satisfaction & use cases. The first draft is visible at https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/oS-2020-poll
Reasoning: - it's fun to fill end-of-of the years surveys: it gives a sense of closure and know doesn't like to express themselves?? - surveys are useful for the community: it builds self-knowledge - surveys are useful for the current and future Board, especially in election times, as it may translate into better governance since a Boards' decision can build on what people want, expect, and feel like.
y/n ? when would be the best time window for sending?
How long did you want to keep the survey open for? Is the plan to do it on survey.opensuse.org? I can write up a post about it on news.o.o. and the marketing team can help with social media. I would just need the link and dates of when it opens and closes. It would be good to also put the results on news.o.o.
Most of the surveys we've been doing recently have run for about 14 days. Maybe Dec. 14 - Dec. 28? v/r Doug _______________________________________________ openSUSE Project mailing list -- project@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email project-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/project@lists.opensuse.org
-- Lubos Kocman, Release Manager openSUSE Leap SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg - Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer
Hi Doug, Thanks very much for your reply! I was dying to have someone from the infra get onboard. > survey.opensuse.org? Yes, that would be ideal. As said in an previous reply the survey in its current state might use some polishing, especially as far as: a) *conditionalizing* certain questions on others (patterns are already hinted at) b) *applying nice UI tricks* to bring down the number of questions c) *rephrasing here and there* to bring forth and then exploit certain logical relations Thing is, I don't have access to survey.opensuse.org so I can only speculate how it displays questions and, more importantly, I cannot really work further on (a, b) without it. Also seeing how it displays questions would help me do (c). > news-o-o I'd be delighted if you posted something indeed. If we want to cover all bases we need to sync up with: - #chat:opensuse.org on the oS IRC - the "announcement" ML - r/opensuse on Reddit - "announcements" channel on the openSUSE Discord server - the Telegram group chat at https://t.me/openSUSE_group One generic post copy-pastable across these platforms would be awesome. For the details of the text we could perhaps wait till I get my draft onto survey.opensuse.org? > Dec 14-28 as time window Superb! Thanks again and see you soon, Adrien
Hi Adrien, On 12/7/20 1:54 PM, Adrien Glauser wrote: > Hi Doug, > > Thanks very much for your reply! I was dying to have someone from the infra get onboard. > >> survey.opensuse.org? > Yes, that would be ideal. As said in an previous reply the survey in its current state might use some polishing, especially as far as: > a) *conditionalizing* certain questions on others (patterns are already hinted at) > b) *applying nice UI tricks* to bring down the number of questions > c) *rephrasing here and there* to bring forth and then exploit certain logical relations > Thing is, I don't have access to survey.opensuse.org so I can only speculate how it displays questions and, more importantly, I cannot really work further on (a, b) without it. Also seeing how it displays questions would help me do (c). I don't have access to it, but recently submitted a ticket to get access like yourself. I know there can be some difficulties with how the question can be presented. I'm not sure if there are options for visuals, etc. > >> news-o-o > I'd be delighted if you posted something indeed. If we want to cover all bases we need to sync up with: > - #chat:opensuse.org on the oS IRC > - the "announcement" ML > - r/opensuse on Reddit > - "announcements" channel on the openSUSE Discord server > - the Telegram group chat at https://t.me/openSUSE_group > One generic post copy-pastable across these platforms would be awesome. For the details of the text we could perhaps wait till I get my draft onto survey.opensuse.org? I think it would be a good idea to connect. Or maybe we schedule something on meet.o.o and go over each question as we put them in the system. I can see how the demographics questions can be consolidated and some that could probably be rearranged. Do we want to got with a limitation on the amount of questions? 35 is a lot and not all the demographics questions are numbered, so it appears to be more than 35 questions. I also see there is a couple dual questions like 7a and 7b. I'll comment inside parentheses on the questions about these on the etherpad. v/r Doug
Hi again!
Meet? Sure, have 30-60 minutes to spare tomorrow between 07:15 pm UTC and 10:00 pm UTC? I have no preference about which thing we use to meet on.
Consolidating questions If you finish editing the etherpad before tomorrow I can use them to produce an improved draft #2, which we can then talk about in the meeting.
See you soon! Adrien
BTW anyone would like access to
https://www.linkedin.com/company/opensuse-project/? I am somehow the
owner... 🤣
--
Best regards / S pozdravem,
BSc. Mark Stopka, BBA
Managing Partner (at) PERLUR Group
mobile: +420 704 373 561
website: www.perlur.cloud
On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 5:11 PM Adrien Glauser
Hi again!
Meet? Sure, have 30-60 minutes to spare tomorrow between 07:15 pm UTC and 10:00 pm UTC? I have no preference about which thing we use to meet on.
Consolidating questions If you finish editing the etherpad before tomorrow I can use them to produce an improved draft #2, which we can then talk about in the meeting.
See you soon!
Adrien _______________________________________________ openSUSE Project mailing list -- project@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email project-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/project@lists.opensuse.org
Dne pondělí 7. prosince 2020 17:13:12 CET, Mark Stopka napsal(a):
BTW anyone would like access to https://www.linkedin.com/company/opensuse-project/? I am somehow the owner... 🤣
Might be contact marketing team https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Marketing ? -- Vojtěch Zeisek https://trapa.cz/ Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux https://www.opensuse.org/
On 12/7/20 5:13 PM, Mark Stopka wrote:
BTW anyone would like access to https://www.linkedin.com/company/opensuse-project/? I am somehow the owner... 🤣 I'm admin for one linkedin, but not this one it looks like. I just requested it.
On 12/7/20 5:11 PM, Adrien Glauser wrote:
Hi again!
Meet? Sure, have 30-60 minutes to spare tomorrow between 07:15 pm UTC and 10:00 pm UTC? I have no preference about which thing we use to meet on. I would be more than happy to go over it tomorrow at 07:15 pm (19:15) UTC on https://meet.opensuse.org/2020survey
Does that sound good? v/r Doug
On 07/12/2020 13.28, ddemaio wrote:
Hi Adrien, On 12/5/20 6:34 PM, Adrien Glauser wrote:
Hello,
I've just stitched together ideas for an "end of the year survey" to probe satisfaction & use cases. The first draft is visible at https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/oS-2020-poll
Reasoning: - it's fun to fill end-of-of the years surveys: it gives a sense of closure and know doesn't like to express themselves?? - surveys are useful for the community: it builds self-knowledge - surveys are useful for the current and future Board, especially in election times, as it may translate into better governance since a Boards' decision can build on what people want, expect, and feel like.
y/n ? when would be the best time window for sending?
How long did you want to keep the survey open for? Is the plan to do it on survey.opensuse.org? I can write up a post about it on news.o.o. and the marketing team can help with social media. I would just need the link and dates of when it opens and closes. It would be good to also put the results on news.o.o.
Most of the surveys we've been doing recently have run for about 14 days. Maybe Dec. 14 - Dec. 28?
Just when the people go out on vacation? Huh, perhaps this year we don't travel, there is a bad critter out there :-P -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
participants (13)
-
Adrien Glauser -
Andreas Jaeger -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Christian Boltz -
David Mulder -
ddemaio -
Gerald Pfeifer -
Lubos Kocman -
Mark Stopka -
Per Jessen -
Richard Brown -
Vojtěch Zeisek