February 2010 - openSUSE Project - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse-project] Wiki translations: Do we need them?
by Rajko M. 09 Mar '10

09 Mar '10

Do we need them? If yes then we have to organize wiki translations in a different way then it is now. Recently when we started with en.opensuse.org (en.o.o) reorganization there was few questions to decide what to do. One of them is what we are going to do with few translations of some wiki pages, but not enough to grant own wiki. I asked what we going to do with those articles. The question is coming up for a long time: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-wiki/2006-01/msg00018.html http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-wiki/2007-05/msg00082.html and the most recent: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-wiki/2010-01/msg00070.html and also in related discussions as one of the questions. Currently translations are organized in a simple way of: - translate few mandatory pages - request own wiki - continue translations there Main page for translations is: http://en.opensuse.org/Translations Such wiki translation concept is set by instructions how to translate: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wiki_Translation_Guidelines It assumes implicitly: 1) there is enough people behind translation to keep language project running 2) there is enough skills in every single person that wants to translate (translator) to understand structure of our en.o.o articles and translate articles appropriately 3) en.o.o is source and language wiki is only translation and contributors there will not add valuable content that should be translated the other way around 4) every translator will use en.o.o as temporary storage for translations until there is enough articles to grant own wiki 6) every translator is friendly guy that will not misuse translation for his own purposes Current wiki translation concept does not cover people willing to contribute: 1) but don't have time to translate all mandatory pages 2) but don't have skills to dive in our wiki article structure which is now quite complex 3) want to translate only download and install sections, or any other random article that they find interesting (for instance they translated article for themselves) 4) translations from another language to native language 5) translations from random language to English, or any other language (original content in language wiki) 6) translator and translation check to keep content acceptable The wiki translation concept failed on few language wikis. Wiki servers are listed on http://en.opensuse.org/Translations . Discussion about and listings of inactive servers can be found in opensuse- wiki archives. One article is here: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-wiki/2009-06/msg00007.html Here is incomplete list of translations that live in en.o.o: http://en.opensuse.org/Category:Translations To make it complete, I would have to go trough all pages starting with language codes. usually 2 capital letters and dash. Although, after some rework of translation instructions, it is much easier to translate, as there is no more guesswork what extra pages, that are included in required ones, one has to translate, there is still need to rethink whole process and make it multilingual friendly. The Bulgarian is good example why we need to rewrite rules, first guy that translated few pages to BG used his knowledge of Russian. How do I know, because guy asked me can he do that. The vlinux1 is currently active, but as I can see he doesn't understand either wiki tools, or current instructions how to translate. If there would be language independent, multilingual, server I bet that there will be more people that will translate from English, or some other language that they know to their native, but then we would have to translate translation instructions and keep them on currently active language wikis. About the server name: babel.opensuse.org is fancy name, but fancy names tend to be hard to guess, so multilingual.opensuse.org should be better choice. If nothing, because word is based on Latin language and needs no translation for many languages. None of those that I can use with various levels of understanding (hr, rs, en, de, ru, mk, sl, bg, etc) will have problem with word multilingual as they use multi as a prefix to other words and word lingua is either part of the language or well known from other instance of its use. -- Regards Rajko, -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Maemo and Moblin merging into MeeGo
by Silviu Marin-Caea 08 Mar '10

08 Mar '10

Yesterday Nokia and Intel announced they are merging their two mobile distributions Maemo and Moblin into MeeGo. Novell has an instance of Moblin called SUSE Moblin, a result of cooperation with Intel. What will be the involvement of Novell in the MeeGo project? Will Novell make SUSE MeeGo? BTW MeeGo will be a .rpm distribution. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Gsoc 2010
by Sanyam goyal 02 Mar '10

02 Mar '10

Hi, my name is Sanyam, I am final year Student of Computer Science department , IIT Bombay, india. I want to participate in Gsoc 2010. I saw last year's project of openSUSE in gsoc, and I quite liked them. I want to know whether openSUSE is participating in gsoc 2010, and if yes ,May I know where is the ideas page. I want to get started on it. I got this link from #open-SUSE http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2010-02/msg00094.html, It talks about gsoc 2010. Any leads on this ?? Any comments , any help is appreciated Thanks -- Sanyam Goyal Btech4,Senior UnderGraduate IIT Bombay -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Can we support for-profit organizations to make money? (Was: Ubuntu One Music Store)
by Basil Chupin 01 Mar '10

01 Mar '10

On 23/02/10 21:56, Henne Vogelsang wrote: > Hi Jeff, > > On 02/20/2010 03:12 AM, Jeff Mitchell wrote: > > >> I'm Jeff Mitchell, one of the Amarok authors. Nice to meet all of you. >> > Likewise :) > > >> Canonical however is a for-profit company. Other distributions >> shipping this plugin means that you're helping Canonical make their >> money for them, and I haven't heard of any method of Canonical >> sharing profit with other distributions. >> >> Why is this a problem? It isn't, necessarily -- but I do worry about the >> implications of for-profit distributions or projects or companies >> getting in a habit of pushing code upstream -- or on other distributions >> -- with the sole purpose of earning money (as opposed to earning money >> by improving FOSS and creating a more salable product). It seems like a >> fairly slippery slope. I'm not sure that Canonical will try to get this >> in Rhythmbox trunk, but I'm interested in knowing how openSUSE would >> respond in this case, if openSUSE might voluntarily ship this plugin, >> and the thoughts of the openSUSE community in general. >> > Since quite some time we follow a simple approach here and mostly ask > two rather practical questions: "Is this legal?" and "Whats in it for > our userbase?". If the answer to the first one is "yes" we decide based > on the answer to the second one. For instance we provide in our non-oss > repository some commercial applications that clearly bring advantages > for our users. But we don't provide binary only drivers because they > clearly violate the kernels license. These are the decisions we make. > > Now what you ask is a morale question: "Can we support for-profit > organizations to make a buck?" The answer from us so far, although > implicit through our actions explained above, is "Yes we can.". > > But this is the first time this question has come up explicitly and i > completely understand why you ask it. I think we're at a point in the > evolution of the free and open source software world were these > questions of morale come up more often because, frankly, money comes > into play. And as we all know money tends to bring chaos into the life > of society. > > I welcome this discussion, and think its a necessary one, but i would > like to discuss it uncoupled from this example. I am not really sure that you can uncouple from this or any other example. > So what is our answer to: > > Can we support for-profit organizations to make money? > This question which you just posed was implied, but not spelt out as such, in my response to a post by Zhang Weiwu in opensuse a couple of days ago in the thread, "what networking file system to use for our home office?". What you are asking above is really an answer to be answered by the Novell management, surely. Novell provides commercial SUSE package for which it charges, as I understand it, support fees. On the other hand, we also have openSUSE which is (now) provided free because its users are acting as guinea-pigs to test what will be released as a SUSE package. Nevertheless, both openSUSE and SUSE, and whatever goes into them, are OSS - which means that they can be used/installed/altered by anyone (with some conditions) - but they may be FREELY copied and distributed. My question posed to Zhang Weiwu in opensuse was not directly questioning the commercial purpose for his use of a linux distro but was actually asking why someone who claims not to be an IT person fooling around with trying to install a network in a commercial environment (and he had already asked someone for advice on the subject) - but the way I expressed myself was possibly too subtle. *But *I did also have at the back of mind the question of why should someone doing commercial work ask for help when SUSE has help support - which comes with paying for the SUSE package. However, this fleeting thought of mine was really not of any consequence - except to ask myself what Novell's management is all about - because there are many people who regularly - daily even - ask questions and comment about problems with openSUSE while they also state they are using openSUSE to install it on the computers of their "clients" as part of their professional services - ie, "making a buck". >From the perspective of the question asked above re Canonical's Rhythmbox, the software is FOSS, released under the GNU license therefore would not be a need to consider any special "conditions" for its use in any other distribution outside Canonical. Even considering that there could be some "moral" aspect attached to this question is unthinkable because this would imply that FOSS software is subject to 'deals' between distros for share of - profits was mentioned above - "benefits" of a financial nature which is not what FOSS and GNU are all about. You want to make money from it put a patent on it and do not release it under a GNU license. *Ask *for a contribution from a user if s/he likes the software - why not? BC -- She was only a whisky maker but I loved her still. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE & Google Summer of Code 2010
by Vincent Untz 26 Feb '10

26 Feb '10

Hey, As some of you might know, Google is organizing a Summer of Code in 2010 again: http://socghop.appspot.com/ It'd be quite amazing to have openSUSE be a mentoring organization again! For reference, we have a wiki page for our past participations: http://en.opensuse.org/Summer_of_Code What do you think? I'll assume for a bit that you think "yes, let's do it" :-) Now, how can you help? Here are some hints: + you can be one of the admin for openSUSE in GSoC 2010. This is mainly about making sure that we do everything we need to participate in GSoC, and make students feel comfortable in the project, and push a bit our contributors to publish ideas and mentor students :-) + you can create the wiki page for GSoC 2010. I guess the 2009 is a good basis, and starting with copy/paste is a good first step: http://en.opensuse.org/Summer_of_Code_2009 + start thinking about ideas that students would work on. Any volunteers? Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Ubuntu One Music Store -- what will openSUSE be doing?
by Jeff Mitchell 25 Feb '10

25 Feb '10

Hello, I'm Jeff Mitchell, one of the Amarok authors. Nice to meet all of you. As you may know, Amarok has supported multiple music stores for some time. We have had one explicit music store -- Magnatune -- and the framework for more. We've been in talks with some other independent stores and so far no other store plugins have been created, but generally only for lack of investment by these stores (many of them tend to go out of business before they really get off the ground...such is the industry). Amarok gets a small cut of sales to Magnatune, which are reinvested in the project -- which is a non-profit entity incorporated under the SFC. I posed a question to Will Stephenson during Camp KDE, and I'd like to bring it up here today, in light of the Ubuntu One Music Store plugin finally being pushed in Rhythmbox (see http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Nzk5Ng ). The concept had been public before, but not much information has been available. Currently, the implementation is a plugin to Rhythmbox. It's unknown if they're going to try to push it into Rhythmbox trunk. Certainly there is a precedent for them to try: after all, we have the Magnatune music store, which as far as I know is included on all distributions of Amarok. There is of course a very large difference between the two -- the cut of track sales that Magnatune gives to Amarok goes to a non-profit entity and is used to fund developer sprints, pay our hosting costs and the like. As a result of this, no distribution seems to have a problem shipping the Magnatune code. Canonical however is a for-profit company. Other distributions shipping this plugin means that you're helping Canonical make their money for them, and I haven't heard of any method of Canonical sharing profit with other distributions. Why is this a problem? It isn't, necessarily -- but I do worry about the implications of for-profit distributions or projects or companies getting in a habit of pushing code upstream -- or on other distributions -- with the sole purpose of earning money (as opposed to earning money by improving FOSS and creating a more salable product). It seems like a fairly slippery slope. I'm not sure that Canonical will try to get this in Rhythmbox trunk, but I'm interested in knowing how openSUSE would respond in this case, if openSUSE might voluntarily ship this plugin, and the thoughts of the openSUSE community in general. Thanks, Jeff

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R: Re: [opensuse-project] R: PPC team
by barravince＠gmail.com 20 Feb '10

20 Feb '10

SGksDQpBcmUgeW91IHNlcmlv+XMgPw0KVGhvdWdodCB5b3UgYXJlIGpva2luZy4uDQotLS0tLS1NZXNzYWdnaW8gb3JpZ2luYWxlLS0tLS0tDQpEYTogUmFqa28gTS4NCkE6IG9wZW5zdXNlLXByb2plY3RAb3BlbnN1c2Uub3JnDQpPZ2dldHRvOiBSZTogW29wZW5zdXNlLXByb2plY3RdIFI6IFBQQyB0ZWFtDQpJbnZpYXRvOiAyMCBGZWIgMjAxMCAzOjUxIHBtDQoNCk9uIEZyaWRheSAxOSBGZWJydWFyeSAyMDEwIDA0OjEwOjU5IGJhcnJhdmluY2VAZ21haWwuY29tIHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+IEkndmUgd3JpdGVkIHBvcm5zdXNlISBJJ20gdXNpbmcgYSBibGFrY2JlcnJ5IHBlYXJsIGFuZCBzb21ldGltZXMgaGUgbWFrZQ0KPiAgdGhpcyBqb2NrZXMgOi0pDQoNCk9idmlvdXNseSBibGFja2JlcnJ5IHVzZXIocykgbW9yZSBvZnRlbiBhc2sgZm9yIHByb24gdGhlbiBmb3IgcHBjLiANCg0KWW91IG1heSBhc2sgY3JlYXRvcnMgb2YgYmxhY2tiZXJyeSB0byBpbXByb3ZlIHNvZnR3YXJlOg0KLSBub3QgdG8gdXNlIGNlcnRhaW4gd29yZHMsIG9yIA0KLSB0byBtYXJrIHRoZW0sIHNvIGl0IGlzIGVhc3kgdG8gc3BvdCB0aGVtLCBvcg0KLSB0byBhbGxvdyB1c2VyIHRvIGRlZmluZS9lZGl0IGxpc3Qgb2YgZm9yYmlkZGVuIHdvcmRzIA0KDQotLSANClJlZ2FyZHMgUmFqa28sDQotLSANClRvIHVuc3Vic2NyaWJlLCBlLW1haWw6IG9wZW5zdXNlLXByb2plY3QrdW5zdWJzY3JpYmVAb3BlbnN1c2Uub3JnDQpGb3IgYWRkaXRpb25hbCBjb21tYW5kcywgZS1tYWlsOiBvcGVuc3VzZS1wcm9qZWN0K2hlbHBAb3BlbnN1c2Uub3JnDQoNCg0KDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgQmxhY2tCZXJyea4gd2lyZWxlc3MgZGV2aWNl-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.orgFor additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] R: PPC team
by barravince＠gmail.com 20 Feb '10

20 Feb '10

Exscuse me! I've writed pornsuse! I'm using a blakcberry pearl and sometimes he make this jockes :-)! I'm sorry Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -----Original Message----- From: barravince(a)gmail.com Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:06:00 To: <opensuse-project(a)opensuse.org> Subject: PPC team Hi, I've readed some time ago about the opensuse- project intection of non supporting anyway the ppc version. Circa 2 months ago I've sended a post on the bugzila where was writed if anyone were interested about the ppc deploy of pornsuse, I had some responses, but nothing was done. So is possibile to make a community team of the ppc distribution? Is possibile to build it via the buildservice? I think that the old ppc computers are a lot, and most of owners are unsatisfied about osx on them, and having a powerfull distribution on those can be very important, and a lot of potential new users can be attracted to opensuse. What about? Let me know please. Vincenzo Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

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[opensuse-project] How does an upstream website offer a link to the openSUSE build of their package?
by Dave Plater 19 Feb '10

19 Feb '10

Hi, I maintain rosegarden4 and upstream has a new version which ATM is submitted to factory, this is a very popular package and the new version is a complete rewrite from the ground up. I noticed the openSUSE link at :- http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/getting/ site was very out of date and even said the package was available from packman whereas it's been an openSUSE package since 2003. This lead me to request an updated link from the developers. I will paste the reply before I go further :- These are generated automatically by scraping the web interface to the distro package databases... I see that several distros appear to have changed their interfaces in such a way as to need an update. Can you provide a single URL that can reliably be retrieved in order to discover an up-to-date record of which version of Rosegarden is current in openSUSE? It can return either HTML or some parsable machine format. The link you just gave includes rather a lot of different entries, and it isn't directly obvious how I would extract the most widely available current version (or "a stable version" and "a bleeding-edge version") from it. I last used SuSE before they capitalised the U, and I have no idea how repositories are organised for it these days. If anyone reading this can provide similar things for Ubuntu, Arch, Gentoo, and your other favourite distribution, that would also be splendid. (Although automatically scraping web databases is messy and unreliable, it's still easier than trying to keep up to date manually. The broken distros on that page have only relatively recently become broken; mostly it's worked "well enough" for the last couple of years.) Chris The "Can you provide a single URL" part prompted this mail. I originally, when requesting the link update, sent this link :- http://software.opensuse.org/search?baseproject=openSUSE%3A11.2&p=1&q=roseg… but this link has the old version at the top which is over a year old, unfortunately 10.02 the version they have just released was too unstable when 11.2 was frozen. I have explained to Chris Cannam the openSUSE repo structure and why but not knowing how the URL retrieval stated in the above message works my question is, is there a way that could point directly to a "one click install" of their latest version in openSUSE. That link would have to point to the build service multimedia:apps rosegarden4 package due to the fact that 10.02 will only be available in factory, in fact rosegarden-10.04 will most probably make the 11.3 release. The current 1.7.3 version in 11.2 is in fact a) a kde3 application and b) two bugs were filed against it when 11.2 was released which upstream refused to fix due to them concentrating on 10.02 which is a qt4 app far better suited to kde4. Incidentally a fedora user was complaining, on rosegardens user list, about the performance of jack server which rosegarden needs and asking about how these things work in other distros and that he was thinking of trying one. I was able to tell him, with confidence, about how well jack performed, with the minimum of set up, with the kernel-desktop kernel. Thanks Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] FrOSCamp Call for Participation
by S.Kemter 19 Feb '10

19 Feb '10

Hello, a few days ago I send a short message about that event. Here is now the official call for participation > Dear friends of freedom, > > The time has come to announce yet another event focusing on free and > open source and on free contents. As you might be aware of the > OpenExpo used to take place twice a year, once during spring time in > Bern and once in autumn in Zurich/Winterthur but the latter was now > cancelled. To fill this gap we started to organize a new (even better) > event, the FrOSCamp. While this is the first time it's being organized > we hope for your support to quickly make this the #1 event in > Switzerland and southern Germany and one of the biggest and most > important events in all of Europe in the future. > > So here's the important facts and you'll quickly noticed we try to > combine the best parts of many existing event (while trying to leave > away the not-so-good parts). The first annual FrOSCamp will happen on > Friday and Saturday, 17/18 September 2010 in the city of Zurich on the > premises of the ETH Zurich. There will be an exhibition similar to > past OpenExpo events, talks for developers and administrators similar > to FOSDEM, talks for end-users and work-shops for varios audiences > similar to LinuxTag and hackfests similar to any of these > project-specific developer conferences. We'd also like to enable > projects to hold their annual users/developers/whatever meetings as > some sort of side-event. What we won't allow is commercial exhibitors > of any kind (no worries, projects are allowed to sell their shirts and > stuff). So instead of '.org meets .com' it's more some sort of 'MIT > meets ASL meetings GPL meets CC...and so on'. > > Of course there will also be a social event but instead of geeks > sitting (or standing) around with a beer in their hand we will have > party with live music from creative commons friendly bands. And the > beer won't be just any random brand but locally brewed Free Beer with > its recipe available under CC-BY-SA. We're also trying to get a > sponsor to make the beer free (as in beer) and not "only" free (as in > freedom). > > So if you're interested in actively participating at this event make > sure to answer the calls for projects/papers on our website [1]. We're > also looking forward to local people to answer the call for volunteers > as volunteers are important to any non-commercial event to become a > huge success. We also have some mailing lists for further > communication and discussion and you're free to subscribe yourself to > any of them [2]. If you have anything to tell or ask us that you can't > find on the website and that doesn't fit onto any of the mailing lists > feel free to drop us a line [3], particularly potential sponsors are > very welcome to do so! > > Don't forget to tell people around you about our event! Forward them > this message, point them to our website or join our events and groups > on those well-known social networking platforms [4]. > > Last but not least let me mention #FrOSCamp on Freenode > (irc.freenode.net) which is open for your questions, remarks or if you > simply need another channel to idle in. > > Free Regards, > > The FrOSCamp Organizational Team > > PS. This is the first and last time we send you a message directly. In > the future we'll only communicate through the mentioned channels. > > [1] http://froscamp.org/ > [2] http://lists.froscamp.org/ > [3] mailto:contact@froscamp.org > [4] http://wiki.froscamp.org/Social_Networking > > br gnokii > -- more http://karl-tux-stadt.de/ktuxs http://www.xing.com/go/invita/11208336 http://twitter.com/karltuxstadt http://identi.ca/karltuxstadt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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