June 2008 - openSUSE Project - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse-project] openSUSE GNOME meeting (2008/06/26)
by Rodrigo Moya 26 Jun '08

26 Jun '08

* 11.1 features + GNOME 2.23.x mostly submitted to Factory + 2.24.1 will be for 11.1 + Better multihead support (more automatic / less manual, less buggy) + Lots of PulseAudio complains in #suse, need a wiki page for PulseAudio common problems and solutions + 11.1 ideas should be announced more widely AI: rodrigo to write PulseAudio wiki page AI: suseROCKS to spread the word about 11.1 ideas page AI: rodrigo to forward suseROCKS announcement mail to opensuse(a)opensuse.org * Helping Hands + 1st presentation tomorrow (14:30 UTC) + Next 3 will be evolution, openoffice and multiscreen + Helping Hands will cover all sections of openSUSE, not only GNOME * Multiscreen + Nothing is changed yet from what we have in 11.0 + Code has been merged into GNOME 2.23 mainline + Many things missing still: - many problems in X drivers, hard to fix - missing functionality in g-s-d and g-c-c - app bugs (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=374148) * Agenda for next meeting + Benchmark/Performance testing + Issues users are having with latest 11.0 + AI: everyone should troll through a few channels and mailing lists and come up with issues users are having -- Rodrigo Moya <rodrigo(a)novell.com> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Build Service downtime 2nd July
by Adrian Schröter 25 Jun '08

25 Jun '08

As announced earlier, we will do our maintenance day on Wednesday next week, the 2nd July A server room will get an upgrade and at the same time we may upgrade also our backend server. This might take the whole day and maybe even some hours on thursday. This will affect all package building, the access to build status and sources and also the package search behind http://software.opensuse.org/search. The current state of our backend server is that it is very loaded, the filesystem is nearly full which makes the system also slow. Please do NOT create large new repositories atm, we would need to remove them to keep the service running. thank you for your patience. adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) email: adrian(a)suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Re: [opensuse] Protecting the openSUSE Project from "poisonous people"
by Andreas Jaeger 25 Jun '08

25 Jun '08

Clayton <smaug42(a)gmail.com> writes: > I attended a conference in California last year and Josh Berkus was a > presenter. He talked for an hour on this very subject.... his > presentation is here: > > http://www.powerpostgresql.com/download/TFCKUpload/25.pdf I'm aware of the google presentation: http://www.slideshare.net/oscon2007/os-fitzpatrick-sussman Where they say that at one point you need to make a stand against them. Thanks for that link. > > He makes a clear point about "Poisonous People" that all open source > communities should pay attention to.... To effectively _destroy_ your > community.... quoting.... > ======= > Maximize the damage they can do! > 1. Argue with them at length > 2. Denounce them venomously > 3. Ban them > 4. Argue with them in other projects > 5. Allow them back into your project > 6. GOTO 1 > ======= > It seems that we as the openSUSE community are following these steps > exactly. That is _not_ a good thing. We're at number 3 and did not allow him back in the project. He come back under disguise - took a shortcute ;-) Read again what I wrote: In the meantime, we would like to remind others on the mailing lists to stop responding to his emails. I agree, we have to stop at number 1 and discourage him instead of encouraging. > Something to think about. Do we take steps to eliminate dissenting > opinions? Or do we allow it? Do we label someone as poisonous to the > community and ban them? What if the point they are making, although > maybe poorly stated, is a valid one? We're not speaking about his points about KDE4, we're speaking about his violation of our rules in the past. > This is a critical point in this community's evolution... and whatever > action that is taken, it MUST be taken with full knowledge of the long > term effects. Let's followup on the project mailing list, reply-to is set, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj(a)suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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[opensuse-project] Re: LSB Package API
by Denis Washington 24 Jun '08

24 Jun '08

On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 12:03 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote: > On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 20:02 +0200, Denis Washington wrote: > > We shouldn't resignate just because nothing came out of the previous > > attempts. Also, the LSB Package API is designed to require as little > > adjustments as possible to installers - it's just to calls and a single > > file, after all. > > Uses a DBUS service: check > Uses pluggable backends: check > Use PolicyKit: check > Use an XML parser: check > System activation: check > Define own linked list implementation: check I don't know where you a heading. The D-Bus service, pluggable backends, the XML parser, and system activation are all things that installers don't have to deal with. They just use the few functions from liblsb_package. > > As already mentioned before in this thread, the focus of PackageKit and the > > LSB Package API are quite different, so there is no big reason for them to > > not exist side-by-side. > > Err, http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/LSB_Package_API suggests > otherwise. > > You've got calls to PolicyKit, a system activated daemon, pluggable > backends - you might as well call the project LSBPackageKit. You don't > appear to have any defined scope for the project and it seems to be just > be technology-bingo at the moment. Just because it does use the same technologies, that doesn't mean the APIs' scope is the same. You should know enough about your project to realize that the LSB Package API is focused on entirely different needs (providing an interface for third-party app installers) than PackageKit (provide an API for the packaging system, based on distro repositories). > > I don't think this is a corner case at all. For one thing, propietary > > applications might just don't play a role _because_ there is no really > > good distribution method for them - the typical chicken-and-egg problem. > > (I'm not saying this is the only reason, but an important one.) We're > > just not giving them an easy method of cross-distro integration. I think > > providing this is important. > > Have you talked to customers? I have. Lots of them. Customers don't want > DBUS services or PolicyKit, they want one of two things: > > 1. A tested (supported) binary package for something like RHEL and SLED. > 2. An installer that uses something like /bin/sh for the other distros. Again, ISVs don't have to deal with D-BUS etc. Those are _implementation details_. They can just use a simple C API which could also be easily wrapped into simple command-line tools. > If you want them to use a library to install stuff, you better make it > static (else they have to depend on really new versions of distros) and > also make it very lightweight, libc type stuff. Most of this closed > source stuff has to install on distros 5 years old, and continue to work > on distros 2 years in the future. The LSB Package API would only be in newer versions of the LSB, so support of legacy distros is not that high on the list. (On any older distro, no one could rely on the API even being there.) > > Second, this way of distribution will help open-source projects as well. > > It would make it really easy for them to distribute bleeding-edge > > versions of there apps that integrate well into the packaging system > > without having to package for each and every package manager. > > Talk to the distro maintainers. They really don't want random projects > replacing supported packages. Packages are not normally just the > upstream tarball with a spec file - normally the packager includes spec > files to make the package compile, or integrate well with the distro. > Then there's the world of pain that comes from security errata. No packages are going to be replaced. LSB applications are required to install to /opt, so nothing is overridden. Even the package naming won't clash (it's "lsb-<provider>-<package name>" in the implemented RPM and DPKG backends). > I really think you should talk to distro maintainers as well as closed > source vendors before coming up with any more API. A number of ISVs have already been talked to; see the comments from Jeff Licquia. Regards, Denis --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Protecting the openSUSE Project from "poisonous people"
by Andreas Jaeger 23 Jun '08

23 Jun '08

While the vast majority of participants on the openSUSE mailing lists are good citizens of those lists, we have from time to time had problems with a few individuals who seek to use the lists to derail conversations and abuse other members of the project. Last October, we banned a user going by the name of Aaron Kulkis from the lists. He has rejoined the mailing lists under several new identities, (including "Matt Archer," "Raskolnivkov Tkachuk," "Evans Garde," and "Washington Irving"). This has been brought to the board's attention, and we are investigating options to enforce the decision we made last October. In the meantime, we would like to remind others on the mailing lists to stop responding to his emails. If you see him using another alias, just send a note to opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org. Thanks, Andreas Jaeger Chairman openSUSE Board -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj(a)suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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[opensuse-project] Re: LSB Package API
by Denis Washington 22 Jun '08

22 Jun '08

On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 14:15 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote: > On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 11:51 +0200, Denis Washington wrote: > > Some time ago, it was discussed on an LSB face-to-face meeting that an > > API should be developed that allows ISVs to install sotware packages > > which integrate into the package manager - the "Berlin Packaging API". > > While the idea seemed to be well received, there didn't seem much > > progress since then, except for a wiki page with a rundimentary proposal > > [1]. Considering that third-party software installation is an undeniably > > important weak spot of the Linux infrastructure, I found this was a > > shame. > > Sure, it's been tried before a few times before and fallen on it's face > each time. There's a reason that PackageKit uses the distro supplied > packages, rather than trying to spin it's own thing. We shouldn't resignate just because nothing came out of the previous attempts. Also, the LSB Package API is designed to require as little adjustments as possible to installers - it's just to calls and a single file, after all. > > To reignite the the initiative, I decided to design and develop a > > prototype implementation of the Berlin API, most creatively named the > > "LSB Package API". It is designed as a simple D-Bus interface > > accompanied with an XML-based package description format. A detailed > > description and the source code can be found on this page: > > > > http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/LSB_Package_API > > Sounds quite like PackageKit, which has been developed for the last year > or so with buy-in from most of the big distros. PackageKit doesn't try > to replace the entire stack, only make some sort of abstraction for GUI > tools where such an abstraction makes sense. > As already mentioned before in this thread, the focus of PackageKit and the LSB Package API are quite different, so there is no big reason for them to not exist side-by-side. > Being blunt, no distro is going to support a LSB package API. To me, a > distro is basically: > > community+trust+infrastructure > > If you take away the trust (letting other people create and sign > packages), the infrastructure (letting other people host packages and > manage security errata) and the community (basically reduced to PR) > you've got nothing left. > > The cost of a distro rolling it's own packages is trivial considering > the advantages of the vendor trust model, with a single infrastructure > and support. The distro model is nice (and arguably better than the LSB Package API) if the packages you like to have are in the repos in sufficiently new versions. But if you need to go past that (bleeding edge versions, not widely spread apps), things get more difficult currently. Especially propietary applications just cannot be distributed by the distros directly. > > The implementation currently supports integration into RPM and dpkg; due > > to its modular nature, support for more package managers could be added > > later on. > > Looks like you've not considered localisation, multi-lib, multiple > versions of packages, or any of the problems solved with solutions like > NEVRAs. I would suggest to read the rpm(+yum), dpkg and conary sources > before you even start to propose APIs. Naturally some things are not considered yet. That's why I called the spec and implementation I released a "starting point", not the completely finished thing ready for production. There are quite a few points that will have to be thought through and added, but I don't think it's impossible to do so on top of the current basic design. > > I hope this implementation will act as a starting point for resurrecting > > the Berlin API process. Let us overcome the "Third-party software > > installation on Linux sucks" problem and strive to a brave new world of > > easily distributable Linux software! ;) > > I think you are looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. > For the corner cases of where this does apply (proprietary software) > this is not enough of a use case to justify all the work required. I don't think this is a corner case at all. For one thing, propietary applications might just don't play a role _because_ there is no really good distribution method for them - the typical chicken-and-egg problem. (I'm not saying this is the only reason, but an important one.) We're just not giving them an easy method of cross-distro integration. I think providing this is important. Second, this way of distribution will help open-source projects as well. It would make it really easy for them to distribute bleeding-edge versions of there apps that integrate well into the packaging system without having to package for each and every package manager. It will also help those projects which are not widely used enough to be in distro repos, as they can more easily release binary distributions without having to depend on getting packaged by the distros. I really believe this decentralism would be very nice to have, especially in something as naturally decentralized as the open source community. Regards, Denis --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] LSB Package API
by Denis Washington 22 Jun '08

22 Jun '08

Hi, Some time ago, it was discussed on an LSB face-to-face meeting that an API should be developed that allows ISVs to install sotware packages which integrate into the package manager - the "Berlin Packaging API". While the idea seemed to be well received, there didn't seem much progress since then, except for a wiki page with a rundimentary proposal [1]. Considering that third-party software installation is an undeniably important weak spot of the Linux infrastructure, I found this was a shame. To reignite the the initiative, I decided to design and develop a prototype implementation of the Berlin API, most creatively named the "LSB Package API". It is designed as a simple D-Bus interface accompanied with an XML-based package description format. A detailed description and the source code can be found on this page: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/LSB_Package_API The implementation currently supports integration into RPM and dpkg; due to its modular nature, support for more package managers could be added later on. I hope this implementation will act as a starting point for resurrecting the Berlin API process. Let us overcome the "Third-party software installation on Linux sucks" problem and strive to a brave new world of easily distributable Linux software! ;) Best regards, Denis Washington [1] http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Berlin_Packaging_API --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Re: [packaging] LSB Package API
by Denis Washington 21 Jun '08

21 Jun '08

On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 06:59 -0700, Dan Kegel wrote: > On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 1:32 AM, Denis Washington <dwashington(a)gmx.net> wrote: > > Some time ago, it was discussed on an LSB face-to-face meeting that an > > API should be developed that allows ISVs to install sotware packages > > which integrate into the package manager - the "Berlin Packaging API". > > While the idea seemed to be well received, there didn't seem much > > progress since then > > I dislike that route intensely. Why, I'm not sure. Perhaps > because it encourages ISVs to manage package updates themselves, > perhaps because it smacks of the complexity of Microsoft's MSI. > > I'm more interested in the single-click install idea Suse's > working on, since it's much less of an end run around > normal Linux packaging practices. And I have a summer intern > to throw at the problem, so perhaps I'll make some headway on > it. The problem I currently see with single-click install is that it still relies on a single package format (.rpm), so there would have to be several packages of the same application again. Another particular problem I see is security: RPM runs as root, so post-install routines will do so too. That's why I tried to do an architecture that works without root privileges (in many cases at least). But maybe there are are already plans how to address this? I must admit I'm not all that well-informed about SuSE's one-click install. > Can we move followups to packaging(a)lists.linux-foundation.org rather > than cc'ing all those lists? OK. I wanted to get as many parties as possible on board, but now let's say: whoever likes to follow this discussion is encouraged to to join packaging(a)lists.linux-foundation.org [1]. Follow-ups should only be sent there. Regards, Denis [1] https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/packaging --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Restricted Formats: freetype2 with subpixel hinting
by Rafał Miłecki 21 Jun '08

21 Jun '08

Hi, I've created my first .ymp file which is supposed to install freetype2 package with subpixel hinting enabled (M17N repository). Can you review if this file is correct and if so, put this on http://opensuse-community.org/ and link on pages: http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats/11.0 http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats/10.3 This file should work fine with 10.3 and 11.0. -- Rafał Miłecki

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[opensuse-project] Re: LSB Package API
by Denis Washington 21 Jun '08

21 Jun '08

On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 13:20 +0200, Yaakov Nemoy wrote: > How is this different than PackageKit? PackageKit seems to cover the > use case of presenting a comprehensive API and userspace tools to > manage packages consistently across distros. What can the Berlin API > do that PackageKit doesn't do, and doesn't make sense for PackageKit > to do? > > -Yaakov While the use cases of PackageKit are related to the Berlin API, they are pretty different. PackageKit is focused on providing a frontend for managing repository-based package systems, like apt and and yum. It is mainly thought to abstract installation and upgrades from package repositories, like when an application likes to install a package with a particular name from the distro's repos. However, it does not address the problem of software distribution itself - the repositories and package files are still specific to the packagaing system. The Berlin API, on the other side, does exlclusively deal with providing a package-manager-neutral software distribution method. So the Berlin API is not a replacement for PackageKit, but a complement. In fact, as the software installed with the Berlin API is added to the package system's database, it can be managed (e.g. uninstalled) with PackageKit afterwards - a dream team! ;) Regards, Denis Washington --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Updating WikiPedia
by Administrator 21 Jun '08

21 Jun '08

Hi, can I suggest that the openSuSE project add to their major release launch instructions updating wikipedia to reflect the new release. AS an example of an old page I'd give http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions David --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE GNOME meeting (2008/06/19)
by Rodrigo Moya 19 Jun '08

19 Jun '08

Helping hands update: * Some experts already engaged: - Lakhil and Abharath will do Evolution - Thorsten and Rodo will do openOffice - hpj will do GDM - First session about basic setup (bluetooth, 3g cards, ...) - Next Friday, 2 hour Helping Hands Grand Opening, covering misc getting started topics (14:30 UTC) Wiki cleanup: * suseROCKs started some cleanup on the wiki * Need volunteers to review pages, there are a lot, bad organized AI: suseROCKS to announce and prepare wiki day 11.1 features * A few ideas have been added to http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Ideas/11.1 * July 4th deadline to add features there * Then, we'll start organizing to get interested people to test / develop / document Bug triage: * http://en.opensuse.org/User:Jproseve/TriageProposal * Priorities assigned to bugs, this will drive the bug fixing order AI master update: * Build service repo: * New repo organization (KDE will use similar setup) * G:STABLE is now empty, but will be populated with GNOME packages from 11.0 * G:Factory for ongoing development/packaging How to set up a process of performance measurement: * Interest in developing coprehensive wiki pages for benchmarking / debugging / performance steps we can give our users so they can offer up more sound information on issues * bootchart / debugging tools * A script to collect information for good bug submission -- Rodrigo Moya <rodrigo(a)novell.com> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE Count Down, T-14 ?
by Masim "Vavai" Sugianto 19 Jun '08

19 Jun '08

Hi all, We are here in Jakarta Indonesia (GMT+7) now on June 19, 2008. This morning I've checked out the countdown counter on http://www.opensuse.or.id and find out the counter display T-14. What is T-14 stand for ? Is this related with Pascal Bleser noticed last day about the words for "openSUSE 11.0 is now available, download now !" or something like that ? I've checked http://en.opensuse.org/Countdown also and found similar display (yes, of course, because the first link are taken content from the second :-D ) I don't mention about download link. I just curious about the words displayed on the count down. T-14 = Thanks in Advance ? -- Best Regards, Masim "Vavai" Sugianto /************************************************************/ Blog (ID) : http://www.vavai.com/blog/index.php Blog (EN) : http://www.vavai.net Community : http://www.opensuse.or.id /************************************************************/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE counter -1 on release day?
by Michael Loeffler 17 Jun '08

17 Jun '08

Hi, do I count wrong or the counter? The counter will count down today to 1 and tomorrow to 0. When it will be down to zero the world still needs to wait another day till openSUSE 11.0 release. Assuming I count correctly we should add one day to be down to zero on release day and not one day erlier, shouldn't we? Best Michael -- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] discontinued distributions
by Adrian Schröter 16 Jun '08

16 Jun '08

Hi, After the discussion from last month around the discontinued distribution handling, here's a proposal how to handle them in future. "Discontinued distributions" are the distributions, which receive no regular security updates anymore. These distributions stay accessible below DISCONTINUED name space. This means SUSE:SL-10.0 is accessible as DISCONTINUED:SUSE:SL-10.0 for example. We have currently the following distributions below DISCONTINUED names space: SUSE Linux 10.0 SUSE Linux 10.1 Fedora 6 Mandriva 2006 We will remove the official projects and all repositories building against them in two weeks (if we are not forced to do it earlier due to disc storage problems). The official 10.1 ftp tree from ftp.opensuse.org will get removed end of the year. If you want to keep building against these, you need to modify your project configuration replacing the project name of the path tag. Please keep in mind that the quota system will disable your whole project in case you reach quota setting. Also important, using discontinued distro means that: * Installing a package might not be possible because dependencies can not get solved (due to the fact that distro installation repo disappeared from the servers as well) * Using the repositories should not be done from a system connected to the internet. thanks adrian PS: we are again at > 95% disk usage, we will increase the disk space again, but we should remove all not necessary repositories to keep our resource for the really often downloaded stuff. Thanks a lot for your help. -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) email: adrian(a)suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] IRC etiquette
by Francis Earl 14 Jun '08

14 Jun '08

I have been in the IRC channel on freenode now for a few days, and I am utterly appalled. By FreeNode naming conventions #opensuse (which forwards to #suse) is an official project channel. I am starting to see why OpenSUSE is lacking users, the surrounding community is outright rude. The project needs to understand that such places are exactly where people first encounter Novell and OpenSUSE on a personal basis. While I understand statements made do not represent Novell, or OpenSUSE at all, the general mood in the channel has turned me away repeatedly in the past, and it will do again if nothing is done. I have used Linux for almost 10 years, people all over IRC talk bad about #debian, but they are not even half as bad as #opensuse. I would suggest contacting FreeNode and having #opensuse and #suse separated and started again, it's really appalling. OpenSUSE is technically very good, but the personal interactions with the community is what people judge a Linux distro on, look at Ubuntu, it's buggy as anything, nothing at all special about the distro, yet their channel regularly has 1500 people. Ask yourself why... it's because of the community. If nothing changes, OpenSUSE will never be a popular project, and I seem to recall that being a stated goal? If you don't know what this is about, I challenge anyone reading to just hang out in #opensuse for a few days, look at the way the project is represented there. I'm not sure if OpenSUSE has a community board or anything that is intended to mediate this sort of thing, but I think it's a serious mistake to overlook this. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] 1-click's name
by Stephen Shaw 14 Jun '08

14 Jun '08

So, I'm constantly hearing complaints about 1-click. Am I the only one? Should the 1 click process be shortened? Stephen --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] 1-click's name
by Joe Harmon 13 Jun '08

13 Jun '08

On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 11:17 -0300, Druid wrote: > I'm sorry, Vincent, but how does it help to come here in this list and > tell people to change a thing, like the previous people who did it > were completely idiots with no understanding of nothing? Isn't that > someway offensive? That wasn't his point. He didn't say anything about you comment with regards to the "1 click" name change. His point was you didn't need to make the gnome comment. And quite frankly I agree. You could have very well come in and stated that you felt that this was something that you felt didn't need to be changed and express you reasons why. You didn't need to come in and and make the generalization about gnome users. Joe Harmon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Sneak Peeks Needs You!
by Francis Giannaros 13 Jun '08

13 Jun '08

Hi, As posted on opensuse-marketing (see http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-marketing/2008-06/msg00026.html for all the details), I'm currently traveling and unable to spend any significant time on the computer (with no access to 11.0), so I'm unable to write any more sneak peeks for 11.0. So....if you wanna help get involved with marketing just in time before the openSUSE 11.0 release, this is a really great way to get started! The articles are quite widely read and are a great way of promoting the distribution release, hyping it up, and getting to know features and developers a little better. If you think that you'd be able to write one of the articles (and of course you will get a lot of help here from the news.opensuse.org editors), then just drop a note on the -marketing mailing list! Note that we are very close to the release now so time is of the essence. Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE GNOME meeting (2008/06/12)
by Rodrigo Moya 12 Jun '08

12 Jun '08

* Promoting 11.0 (vuntz / hobbsc) - hobbsc and vuntz started promotion blog entries, we should do all the same - A series of articles about user-friendly specific 11.0 stuff + new features (pulseaudio, randr1.2, zypper, packagekit + more high-level stuff, like 'how to use os as media center', 'business desktop (word processing, etc)', etc + stuff for developers to grow the developers base + what about looking for help with other distros for linux-generic stuff (mostly everything is just linux, not specific to a distro) - Boxed set delivery is free - Someone wants to write a sneak peeks article for 11.0? AI: suseROCKs to create http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/TopicstoWrite * Helping Hands Launch (suseROCKs) - http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/HowTos created, please review - We need people to submit topics and volunteer to be a Helping Hands expert - Suggest ideas & enlist at http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/HowTos/HelpingHandsTopics * Nominating Bug-X for Maintenance Updates (jpr) - Tag potential updates with gnome-update keyword - Developers, ask Anja for a SWAMP-ID * Use bugzilla instead of wiki for AI's (rodrigo / vuntz) - People forget too easily their AIs on the wiki, so why not use bugzilla? - Used for tracking things, so makes sense, would just need a new AI component, eg - We need some AI master to nag constantly people about their AIs, or some automatic application that reminds people before the AIs reach their timeline AI: rodrigo to mail henne for creating products/components AI: captain_magnus to become the AI master * Bug Triage Policy (jpr) - Bug tagging was quite successful for 11.0, helped us focus on user impact rather than technical severity - More aspects to bug handling inconsistent, proposal to fix them: + http://en.opensuse.org/User:Jproseve/TriageProposal + Attempts to better define severities + It moves to priority rather than severity as the first order driver of what gets fixed + It pushes for being better citizens upstream with bug filing in bugzilla.gnome.org and other upstream bugzilla + it attempts to clearly define a triage process some that technical but not necessarily developers can easily perform it in a repeatable manner - Proposal sent to the KDE team also * Start discussing 11.1 features (vuntz) - http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Ideas/11.1 <- please review, still has items already done for 11.0 - We need people to think hard about what they want for 11.1 * Agenda for upcoming meeting (casualprogrammer) - Helping hands update (suseROCKs) - 11.1 features - Bug triage - AI master update -- Rodrigo Moya <rodrigo(a)novell.com> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE GNOME meeting (2008/06/05)
by Rodrigo Moya 12 Jun '08

12 Jun '08

* Promoting 11.0 (vuntz / hobbsc) - hobbsc and vuntz started promotion blog entries, we should do all the same - A series of articles about user-friendly specific 11.0 stuff + new features (pulseaudio, randr1.2, zypper, packagekit + more high-level stuff, like 'how to use os as media center', 'business desktop (word processing, etc)', etc + stuff for developers to grow the developers base + what about looking for help with other distros for linux-generic stuff (mostly everything is just linux, not specific to a distro) - Boxed set delivery is free - Someone wants to write a sneak peeks article for 11.0? AI: suseROCKs to create http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/TopicstoWrite * Helping Hands Launch (suseROCKs) - http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/HowTos created, please review - We need people to submit topics and volunteer to be a Helping Hands expert - Suggest ideas & enlist at http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/HowTos/HelpingHandsTopics * Nominating Bug-X for Maintenance Updates (jpr) - Tag potential updates with gnome-update keyword - Developers, ask Anja for a SWAMP-ID * Use bugzilla instead of wiki for AI's (rodrigo / vuntz) - People forget too easily their AIs on the wiki, so why not use bugzilla? - Used for tracking things, so makes sense, would just need a new AI component, eg - We need some AI master to nag constantly people about their AIs, or some automatic application that reminds people before the AIs reach their timeline AI: rodrigo to mail henne for creating products/components AI: captain_magnus to become the AI master * Bug Triage Policy (jpr) - Bug tagging was quite successful for 11.0, helped us focus on user impact rather than technical severity - More aspects to bug handling inconsistent, proposal to fix them: + http://en.opensuse.org/User:Jproseve/TriageProposal + Attempts to better define severities + It moves to priority rather than severity as the first order driver of what gets fixed + It pushes for being better citizens upstream with bug filing in bugzilla.gnome.org and other upstream bugzilla + it attempts to clearly define a triage process some that technical but not necessarily developers can easily perform it in a repeatable manner - Proposal sent to the KDE team also * Start discussing 11.1 features (vuntz) - http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Ideas/11.1 <- please review, still has items already done for 11.0 - We need people to think hard about what they want for 11.1 * Agenda for upcoming meeting (casualprogrammer) - Helping hands update (suseROCKs) - 11.1 features - Bug triage - AI master update -- Rodrigo Moya <rodrigo(a)novell.com> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE user survey ideas
by Rajko M. 11 Jun '08

11 Jun '08

In one unrelated thread on opensuse mail list was mentioned package usage survey, which reminded me that installing latest Ubuntu in VirtualBox to see what they offer, I noted this to think about: + popularity contest: package usage survey + short explanation on Synaptic start that software is organized in packages etc. which for old Linux guys is the way they live, but for majority of new users is discovery + bug-buddy + hwdb-client hardware devices, logs, QA data collection -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE Launches Merged Forums
by Michael Loeffler 10 Jun '08

10 Jun '08

Hi all, we proudly announce the launch of forums.opensuse.org, a merger of the openSUSE Novell support forums, suseforums.net, and suselinuxsupport.de - the three largest English-language dedicated support forums for openSUSE. The merged forums at forums.opensuse.org will provide a single forum for the openSUSE community to find support and discuss openSUSE. The forums hosted at forums.opensuse.org are available immediately. Users with an openSUSE account for the wiki, bugzilla, and other services wil be able to use their existing username for the forums. Users of suseforums.net and suselinuxsupport.de will be able to create new accounts on forums.opensuse.org. Read more at: http://news.opensuse.org/2008/06/10/opensuse-launches-merged-forums/ Best Michael -- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE GNOME meeting (2008/06/05)
by Rodrigo Moya 06 Jun '08

06 Jun '08

3 tries today for doing the meeting, because of time shift confusion Nominating Bug-X for maintainance updates Vote for bugs you want to be maintainance updates, or use the gnome-update tag https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=396775 Issues with smaller displays Google calendar hangs the panel https://bugzilla.novell.com/375153 Next bug day Roughly 100 bugs left Next one for 11 June 2008 at 0800 CDT, 10 hour marathon Will try with gobby for a better bug assignment / progress control 11.1 features http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Ideas/11.1 Start brainstorming AI: (suseROCKS) move 11.0 ideas not done to 11.1 page Marketing ideas to promote 11.0 The goal is to gather ideas on how to promote 11.0 Let's blog more about what's new Screenshots in feature list page of the wiki (http://en.opensuse.org/Testing:Features_11.0) Some GNOME reps joining the marketing list Tips page: http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_11.0_Tips SuSE Studio: http://studio.suse.com/ GNOME HOWTOs project under way -> http://opensuse.org/GNOME/HowTos -- Rodrigo Moya <rodrigo(a)novell.com> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] STATUS:Communication/Wiki/Events
by Martin Lasarsch 03 Jun '08

03 Jun '08

* Events - Linuxtag is over and it was very good. Wait for my final posting on project. Slides (some German, some English) and Videos will be on the German wiki http://de.opensuse.org/LinuxTag (maybe end of week, Tom needs to cut the videos first) - Presstour this week with Michael - openaudio is visiting us next week, if you have topics to cover let me know. * Communication - Project meeting on wednesday, 14:00 CEST! http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Project_Meeting_2008-06-04 * wiki - started to look at the wiki update. We first updated the staging server to SLES10, looks fine so far only one plugin is not working (guess what, the most important one, rss feed integration). -- with kind regards, Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) martin.lasarsch(a)suse.de - http://www.opensuse.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Volunteers for openSUSE board election committee wanted
by Andreas Jaeger 02 Jun '08

02 Jun '08

The board has approved the openSUSE board election proposal as written up on this list http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2008-03/msg00252.html with the change that for now the board will do the membership approval, the details are now in the wiki at http://en.opensuse.org/Board/Election. We discussed the membership approval and consider that right now a task for the board - and not a burden - and also do not want to give the election committee too much work. We're now asking for volunteers for the openSUSE election team to drive the election process. The members of the election team have the following duty: * Drive the openSUSE board elections - this means the complete process starting by collecting volunteers, deciding on how to do the voting, driving the setup of any tools for the voting, announcing the election and results. Note: Members of the election team will not be able to stand up for the openSUSE board election themselves. If you're interested, please mail the openSUSE board at board(a)opensuse.org, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj(a)suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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