November 2006 - openSUSE Project - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse-project] Changes in Bugzilla
by Andreas Jaeger 24 Mar '07

24 Mar '07

I'd like to inform you about the following two changes to bugzilla: openSUSE 10.3 ============= We have created a new product and opened it. Some of the bugs that will not be fixed for 10.2 are moved over to that product. SUSE Linux 10.0 =============== Our policy is to only fix security bugs for released products and we fix the occasional critical bugs. Security bugs are reported by the security team and with 10.1 out and 10.2 nearly finished, we're not fixing critical bugs anymore so we do not really need a public bugzilla here. We do see some misuse especially with 10.0 where people report bugs against different products or ask for general help and have therefore decided to make it non-public tomorrow. SUSE Linux 10.1 will stay open for now - and openSUSE 10.2 is the product we're working on, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj(a)suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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[opensuse-project] NIC
by Jay Smith 06 Jan '07

06 Jan '07

So, I figure you guys developing Opensuse may know what's going on. I am running an MSI computer with Microstar International motherboard, Intel 915 chipset, etc. The driver is Realtek for my wired NIC and when I installed 10.1, during the hardware scan, it found it. After install, it couldn't recognize it as wired NIC so I can't get wired internet. When I look at Hardware details, it is listed. I am using the SMP version of the kernel. Can you tell me how to get my wired NIC working? My wireless is working (ipw3945ABG) minus the fact that it has a 5 ft range. It is listed as eth1 and requires that I push a button to turn on the wireless NIC. Any ideas? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Invitation to OpenSUSE developers
by Mark Shuttleworth 04 Dec '06

04 Dec '06

Novell’s decision to go to great lengths to circumvent the patent framework clearly articulated in the GPL has sent shockwaves through the community. If you are an OpenSUSE developer who is concerned about the long term consequences of this pact, you may be interested in some of the events happening next week as part of the Ubuntu Open Week: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek We are hosting a series of introductory sessions for people who want to join the Ubuntu community - in any capacity, including developers and package maintainers. If you want to find out how Ubuntu works, how to contribute or participate, or how to get specific items addressed, there will be something for you. I’ll also be on IRC on Tuesday 28th to answer any questions you may have of me specifically, such as Luis’ questions about our position on software patents at http://tieguy.org/blog/2006/11/22/and-ubuntus-patent-stand/ There are a couple of sessions that would be particularly interesting for folks familiar with OpenSUSE. The Kubuntu team is hosting some events during the week to look at KDE and Ubuntu and to discuss the roadmap of their project. There are also a few events being hosted by the Ubuntu Desktop team’s, which I think should include some discussion of the ideas that came from the recent Ubuntu Developer Summit in Mountain View. There are a couple of Packaging 101 and Package Maintenance sessions too, specifically for developers. Ubuntu is structured to empower our community to get things done, and to maximise the opportunity for collaboration between teams that share a common vision (even if it’s not 100% of their vision, such as between the Gnome, KDE and XFCE desktop teams). While we’re always open to new members, we thought it would be a good idea to identify a dedicated week where new members would be the focus for our whole project. If you have an interest in being part of a vibrant community that cares about keeping free software widely available and protecting the rights of people to get it free of charge, free to modify, free of murky encumbrances and “undisclosed balance sheet liabilities”, then please do join us. I know that posting this message to an OpenSUSE list will be controversial. I'm greatly respectful of the long tradition of excellence in the SuSE product and community and have no desire to undermine that with this post. That said, I think the position taken by Novell leadership in their contract with Microsoft is hugely disrespectful of the contributions of thousands of GPL programmers and contributors to SuSE, and I know that many are looking for a new place to get involved that is not subject to the same arbitrary executive intervention. Ubuntu is one option, as are Gentoo, Debian and other communities. Please accept this mail in that spirit. Mark --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Introduction
by James Ruffer 29 Nov '06

29 Nov '06

Thank you for allowing to join the community. I would love to help by offering my project management skills. I am currently working with a computer forensics company and would like to donate more time to the SUSE OS. Please feel free to contact me directly. Also I have a collocation center in NY that I would be more than happy to mirror SUSE as well as run some open project management software for all to use. -- Thank you for your time. James F. Ruffer III MSCE, CNA, CCNA, & BSDI Administrator Albany, Manhattan, Chicago, Memphis and Dallas 1.518.271.1844 Mobile --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Invitation to OpenSUSE developers
by Jay Smith 27 Nov '06

27 Nov '06

As a linux developer, I think you are aware of the GPL. Microsoft CANNOT have their way, they are entering into our territory. Also, they have issued their agreement towards individual developers which is also holding them at bay. Microsoft simply cannot sue GPL developers. They are also being forced to document their source code which is probably why they are entering this pact in the first place. I seriously doubt, with their history in regards to Microsoft, that Novell approached MS about this deal. Microsoft has to comply to OUR rules cause they are entering OUR territory. They cannot take over GPL software, there are too many strikes against them to do so even if they wanted to. They've also released their own agreement which makes it hard if not impossible for Microsoft to impose their patents. Let's face it, in regards to Linux, it's more than making a better Linux, it's about making a better IT environment. Great, we can have an awesome Linux that can only function in a Linux environment. I don't know that I'd want to be a mortgage company trying to run encompass on Wine with little support other than a mailing list and forum. If this pact works out, Linux and MS will be more interoperable than ever before. That's what we want, an IT environment where you can have Windows and/or Linux and be able to function just fine. And what makes you think you can protect any of us if "Microsoft has their way"? You're GPL too, there's more to SuSE than the SuSE code. There is also other GPL software like KDE, GNOME, etc. IF "Microsoft had their way", it's game over for all GPL developers, not just the SuSE ones because GPL extends into Ubuntu and other distros. I seriously doubt Microsoft can attempt to take over since Linux and Open Source is a community, not a corporation, the GPL stands, other MS and Novell agreements stand to keep them at bay, and Microsoft has strikes against them with the EU and people all over the globe. Let people develop with whom they want to. Don't disrespect any of us. I guarantee you, with you trying to enter the Enterprise arena, you're going to wish that you had some sort of interoperability setup. Because most proprietary solutions are in place and have been for years. It'd be really hard to replace that so it's easier to try to make it work on Linux. Let all of us developers be Mark. On Mon Nov 27 1:57 , Mark Shuttleworth sent: >Andreas Jaeger wrote: >> There's been a lot of confusion and misrepresentation - and maybe not >> the best reaction from Novell to all the concerns and fears that the >> contract raised - but I do see us on the same side: as part of the >> open source community. >> >> Mark, I'd like to invite you to discuss what possibilities we have to >> work together against the domination of Microsoft on the desktops - >> instead of fighting against each other. >> >> I would prefer to see more users switching from Windows to Linux than >> just Linux users switching distributions. >> >Agreed, and I'm very happy to look for ways in which we can improve >collaboration between Ubuntu and SuSE. We all want to see Linux >distributions get stronger, and the proprietary platform forced to >compete on a more open and healthy basis, and collaboration between >distributions improves our chances of achieving that goal. > >There is room for many Linux distributions, and SuSE has obviously >earned its place at the table through its long history of technical >excellence. My mail was in no way denigrating SuSE, it was only pointing >out the existence of the Ubuntu Open Week to those developers who happen >to be looking around now because of the Novell stance on patents and the >related Microsoft deal. And these concerned developers do exist - I've >fielded several personal emails from SuSE developers shocked at the deal >and looking to find out what Ubuntu's position on these matters is, with >a view to switching if their questions are satisfactorily answered. > >I don't in any way blame the SuSE community for the Novell deal. It's >not your fault that Novell accepted the terms of Microsoft's offer, >perhaps without thinking of the consequences. But make no mistake that >the consequences will be severe if Microsoft is allowed to maintain >their view that the deal entitles them to claim that any Linux >deployment must pay them a patent licence. Samba, the kernel, X, and >many other pieces of the Linux desktop would be severely compromised if >that pans out the way Microsoft would like. This is a serious, serious >threat. I'm working hard to make sure that anybody, anywhere in the >world can use a computer free of charge and study how it works - and >this deal is a major offensive by the other side. Bruce Parens, the >Samba Team, the Open Invention Network and others have all spoken out in >protest because they can see what a devastating effect it will have if >Microsoft carries the day on this one. > >I know many SuSE developers share the same goals as the Ubuntu project, >so collaboration should be our primary goal. And I'm happy to work with >you to figure out how we do so. Perhaps we can devote some time during >the Open Week to discussing collaboration between distros, too? You'd be >welcome to join us. Also, I would be happy to visit your next meeting, >or online forum, to talk about this further, just let me know when and >where. > >Mark >(gpg-signed to avoid further speculation on authenticity :-)). > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Proposal for opensuse-advocacy mail list.
by Rajko M 27 Nov '06

27 Nov '06

I would like to propose a new mailing list opensuse-advocacy The topic of the list would be as any other advocacy newsgroup or mail list. The reason is that recent discussions about the deal between Microsoft and Novell clogged opensuse(a)opensuse.org with a lot of threads that IMHO are not off topic for catch-it-all list, but for sure dimminished our ability to see a lot of postings from people that need help on other issues. Please, give your opinion. -- Regards, Rajko M. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Upgrade from one suse to the next
by Jay Smith 25 Nov '06

25 Nov '06

THanks. I think I'll try it just for the sake of pure curiousity. LOL, I'll also download 10.2 when the final stable release is done. On Sat Nov 25 0:59 , Darryl Gregorash sent: >On 2006-11-23 01:04, jdd sur free wrote: >> Jay Smith a Ã©crit : >>> Hey, with the upcoming arrival of OpenSuse 10.2, I was wondering, can >>> anyone tell >>> me how to upgrade from one suse to a higher version w/o having to use >>> a CD/DVD? I >>> am imagining that there must be some way to upgrade from OpenSuSe >>> 10.1 itself or >>> online or something. Let me know if anyone has any idea. Thanks >> >> this is explained on the wiki >> jdd >> >> >Which you have to dig a lot in to find :-) > >Since the OP doesn't appear to subscribe to opensuse (at least he >doesn't post there), here's my reply from there (with caveat spelled >properly this time): > >http://en.opensuse.org/Updating_SUSE_Linux > >Essentially you are just adding the new version's installation >repository as an installation source, and updating everything for which >a newer version is available (which of course will be everything you >have installed already). If you have installed anything from an external >repository, eg. from Packman or the opensuse "additional" repositories, >you will also have to amend those entries to point to the new version's >packages. Anything which cannot be upgraded must be removed. > >Caveat emptor -- there is a strong warning at the top of the page that >this procedure is not supported, and I suspect the overwhelming majority >of the list's members would strongly recommend against it. > >-- >The best way to accelerate a computer running Windows is at 9.81 m/sÂ² > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: Some "noble silence" please (was: Invitation to OpenSUSE developers)
by Rajat Upadhyaya 25 Nov '06

25 Nov '06

>>> Darryl Gregorash <raven(a)accesscomm.ca> 11/25/06 12:15 PM >>> So what's the SABDFL (presumably a reference to Shuttleworth) in Burgundavia's blog mean, "self-appointed, benign and divine, fearless leader"? Self-appointed benign dictator for life, AFAICT. Rajat --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Upgrade from one suse to the next
by Jay Smith 25 Nov '06

25 Nov '06

Hey, with the upcoming arrival of OpenSuse 10.2, I was wondering, can anyone tell me how to upgrade from one suse to a higher version w/o having to use a CD/DVD? I am imagining that there must be some way to upgrade from OpenSuSe 10.1 itself or online or something. Let me know if anyone has any idea. Thanks --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Invitation to OpenSUSE developers
by Jay Smith 24 Nov '06

24 Nov '06

I have no problem with you expressing an opinion, we are open after all. I do have a problem with you showing disrespect to OpenSuSE. Sure Novell might be making a pact with Microsoft which in some ways are benefitting us because there is a gap between windows and Linux and on a business perspective, that gap NEEDS to be closed, but we are our own programmers. We are as open source as Ubuntu is. We may have a corporation behind us but so does UBuntu, Canonical if I am not mistaken. I am sure that Ubuntu will be in the same shoes as Novell one day since Canonical seems to want to make Enterprise Level Linux and in reality, the only way to do so is to figure interoperability with Windows and possibly Mac. I do IT consulting for Open source and while I am crusading for open source, I also realize that due to the gap between OS Platforms, it is difficult to make someone want to move. Some people have a very special software that only works for Windows. Software like Encompass and there are very few, if any alternatives that will work on Linux. I think interoperability is a great idea as long as Microsoft doesn't attempt to take over Linux, which they can't thanks to the GPL, and I doubt that this community will allow it to. We may have a corporation backing us, but moving to Ubuntu won't solve it since Ubuntu is part of Canonical. I am not saying that no one should go join Ubuntu, I am part of Ubuntu myself, what I am saying is that your reason shouldn't be because Novell is a huge corporation or this whole Microsoft pact. Your reason should be more noble and as for you Mark, please do not enter are mailing lists and bad mouth our projects and suggest we move to yours. That is very tactless, especially for those reasons. On Fri Nov 24 10:16 , Mark Shuttleworth sent: >Novellâs decision to go to great lengths to circumvent the patent >framework clearly articulated in the GPL has sent shockwaves through the >community. If you are an OpenSUSE developer who is concerned about the >long term consequences of this pact, you may be interested in some of >the events happening next week as part of the Ubuntu Open Week: > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek > >We are hosting a series of introductory sessions for people who want to >join the Ubuntu community - in any capacity, including developers and >package maintainers. If you want to find out how Ubuntu works, how to >contribute or participate, or how to get specific items addressed, there >will be something for you. Iâll also be on IRC on Tuesday 28th to answer >any questions you may have of me specifically, such as Luisâ questions >about our position on software patents at >http://tieguy.org/blog/2006/11/22/and-ubuntus-patent-stand/ > >There are a couple of sessions that would be particularly interesting >for folks familiar with OpenSUSE. The Kubuntu team is hosting some >events during the week to look at KDE and Ubuntu and to discuss the >roadmap of their project. There are also a few events being hosted by >the Ubuntu Desktop teamâs, which I think should include some discussion >of the ideas that came from the recent Ubuntu Developer Summit in >Mountain View. There are a couple of Packaging 101 and Package >Maintenance sessions too, specifically for developers. > >Ubuntu is structured to empower our community to get things done, and to >maximise the opportunity for collaboration between teams that share a >common vision (even if itâs not 100% of their vision, such as between >the Gnome, KDE and XFCE desktop teams). While weâre always open to new >members, we thought it would be a good idea to identify a dedicated week >where new members would be the focus for our whole project. > >If you have an interest in being part of a vibrant community that cares >about keeping free software widely available and protecting the rights >of people to get it free of charge, free to modify, free of murky >encumbrances and âundisclosed balance sheet liabilitiesâ, then please do >join us. > >I know that posting this message to an OpenSUSE list will be >controversial. I'm greatly respectful of the long tradition of >excellence in the SuSE product and community and have no desire to >undermine that with this post. That said, I think the position taken by >Novell leadership in their contract with Microsoft is hugely >disrespectful of the contributions of thousands of GPL programmers and >contributors to SuSE, and I know that many are looking for a new place >to get involved that is not subject to the same arbitrary executive >intervention. Ubuntu is one option, as are Gentoo, Debian and other >communities. Please accept this mail in that spirit. > >Mark > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] MD5SUMS of Development DVD's
by Freek de Kruijf 24 Nov '06

24 Nov '06

I have been looking for the MD5SUMS of the DVD's of the Development version openSUSE 10.2 Beta2. However I have not found these. One can only download these DVD's via Bittorrent and this may be enough to ensure that there are no errors, but I an not sure about this. So my suggestion to put these SUMS also in the page behind MDS5SUMS. -- fr.gr. Freek --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Update on the Microsoft deal - Letter to the Community by Novell
by Andreas Jaeger 22 Nov '06

22 Nov '06

We've updated the material at: http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/ There's now an letter from our CEO Ron Hovsepian, I quote it in full below, Andreas ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On November 2, Novell and Microsoft announced a significant, multi-part agreement to work together to improve the interoperability between Linux and Windows and for Microsoft to redistribute more than 350,000 subscriptions for SUSE Linux Enterprise to the Windows customer base over a five-year period. This agreement is at the heart of what IT users demand - to deploy both Linux and Windows, and to have them work well together - and many companies have spoken out in support of this new cooperation. Customers told us that they wanted Linux and Windows to work together in their data centers, and so we agreed to develop new technologies and standards in server management, virtualization and document file format compatibility. CIOs want to focus on their business, and they want their suppliers to focus on improving operating system interoperability. The Linux community will benefit from the creation and release of the open source code to improve Linux's interoperability with Windows that will result from this agreement. Our interest in signing this agreement was to secure interoperability and joint sales agreements, but Microsoft asked that we cooperate on patents as well, and so a patent cooperation agreement was included as a part of the deal. In this agreement, Novell and Microsoft each promise not to sue the other's customers for patent infringement. The intended effect of this agreement was to give our joint customers peace of mind that they have the full support of the other company for their IT activities. Novell has a significant patent portfolio, and in reflection of this fact, the agreement we signed shows the overwhelming balance of payments being from Microsoft to Novell. Since our announcement, some parties have spoken about this patent agreement in a damaging way, and with a perspective that we do not share. We strongly challenge those statements here. We disagree with the recent statements made by Microsoft on the topic of Linux and patents. Importantly, our agreement with Microsoft is in no way an acknowledgment that Linux infringes upon any Microsoft intellectual property. When we entered the patent cooperation agreement with Microsoft, Novell did not agree or admit that Linux or any other Novell offering violates Microsoft patents. Our stance on software patents is unchanged by the agreement with Microsoft. We want to remind the community of Novell's commitment to, and prior actions in support of, furthering the interests of Linux and open source, and creating an environment of free and open innovation. We have a strong patent portfolio and we have leveraged that portfolio for the benefit of the open source community. Specifically, we have taken the following actions: * We have stated our commitment to use our own software patents to protect open source technologies. http://www.novell.com/company/policies/patent/ * We have spoken out against EU legislation that would liberalize the standards for granting software patents. http://www.novell.com/company/policies/patent/european.html * We offer indemnification to our Linux customers accused of intellectual property infringement. http://www.novell.com/licensing/indemnity/ * We have teamed with the United States Patent and Trademark Office and other industry leaders to reduce the issuance of "bad patents" in the software area. http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1911979,00.asp * In 2005, we co-founded Open Invention Network (´OIN¡), ´an intellectual property company that was formed to promote Linux by using patents to create a collaborative environment.¡ Novell's substantial contributions to OIN were made to benefit not only ourselves, but also other Linux vendors, distributors and developers, and anyone else willing to commit not to assert their patents against Linux. http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/ In closing, we wish to be extremely clear that Novell is committed to protecting, preserving and promoting freedom for free and open source software. We recognize that the community of open source developers is essential to all our activities in Linux, and we welcome dialog with the community as to how we can continue to work together toward these common goals. Ron Hovsepian Chief Executive Officer Novell, Inc. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj(a)suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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Re: [opensuse-project] Update on the Microsoft deal - Letter to the Community by Novell
by Dominique Leuenberger 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

>>> Reply on 21-11-2006 13:43:41 <<< > On Tuesday 21 November 2006 12:29, Kevin Donnelly wrote: > > On Tuesday 21 November 2006 09:52, Andreas Jaeger wrote: > > > There's now an letter from our CEO Ron Hovsepian, I quote it in > full > > > below, > > > > This is a very useful development. Paragraphs 3: > > > Our interest in signing this agreement ... > > > > and 5: > > > We disagree with the recent statements made by Microsoft > > > > are particularly helpful. > > What is this? Doesn't smell right. > > http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/nov06/11-20Statement.mspx > > "We at Microsoft respect Novell's point of view on the patent issue, > even > while we respectfully take a different view. Novell is absolutely right > in > stating that it did not admit or acknowledge any patent problems as part > of > entering into the patent collaboration agreement. At Microsoft we > undertook > our own analysis of our patent portfolio and concluded that it was > necessary > and important to create a patent covenant for customers of these > products. We > are gratified that such a solution is now in place." > I would say that Microsoft checked their software and found out that they were infringing Novell Patents. For this reason they pushed to this agreement and are now happy they have their customers save. Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Date change:IRC meeting about Novell/Microsoft deal - 2006-11-27 18:00 CET (17:00 GMT)
by Martin Lasarsch 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

Hi We got a lot of response from our American friends that Thursday is not a good date because of Thanksgiving. We apologize for the inconvenience and moved the meeting to Monday 2006-11-27. Below the changed invitation, this time also with IRC server information :-) --- as promised in the last IRC meeting we will have a dedicated IRC meeting about the Novell/Microsoft deal. We already had questions in the regular IRC meeting last time, but there might be some questions which are not answered because of the short time we had, or new questions came up ... The meeting will take place at the official #opensuse-project IRC channel on freenode (irc://irc.freenode.net/openSUSE-project) Monday 2006-11-27 at 18:00 CET (17:00 GMT) Nat Friedman, Holger Dyroff and AJ are happy to answer all your questions in the chat. Please check out the information we have so far, many questions should be answered there: new: http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/community_open_letter.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/openletter.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq_opensource.html http://www.novell.com/news/press/item.jsp?id=1196 If you can't participate and have a question, please enter it on the meeting page at: http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Special_Meeting_2006-11-27 The network we use for the meeting is freenode - for more information on this, including how to find a server, visit http://freenode.net/ (not affiliated with openSUSE). -- with kind regards, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg martin.lasarsch(a)suse.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- simply change to www.suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re:[opensuse-project]Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

Let's break this down, or attempt to. With many open source projects, there are developers whom want to contribute to the open source with their code, like many people in this community. Essential, what I am gathering, is that Microsoft won't force their patents on anyone whom wants to contribute to OpenSuSE. Microsoft naturally has patents, and people are concerned that they are going to bring their patents into open source. They will not force their patents onto anyone whom is contributing their developments onto OpenSuSE. We know that with the GPL, microsoft can't assert patents on OpenSuSE the OS, the Patent Pledge is to let us know that they won't attack the individuals whom make OpenSuSE.org possible. It's more to protect MS than us it seems. Since Microsoft is going to be contributing, they will have "patents" on the software they contribute but they are letting us know that they won't impose the same patents on anyone else developing. In the end, we can all do what we've been doing. Microsoft isn't going to make us follow their patents when we do our development. Nothing has changed too much for us. onto that other thing with Novell owning what we say, taht's not it at all. What it is, what is said here, no one owns. So if Novell, or anyone else, decides to take what is said in say a forum and put it in their marketing material, they can. If I decide to write a magazine article containing information from this mailing list, I can. It's like, Open Source for words. I am not into fighting either. Part of me is content with the pact, part of me is not. I am not a fan of MS at all, I've used solely Linux for 2 years now and I am glad I haven't looked back. One thing I wish we had though was the ability to use certain Microsoft software like iTunes or TaxCut on Linux. That's why I am happy about this because of the inter operability issue. I am upset because it's Microsoft. I don't want an OS with a bunch of Microsoft's applications on it. A few, maybe, but not a lot. To a degree, Novell needed to do this in order to help make SuSE more appealing to businesses. That's what SLED and SLES are for, business. OpenSuSE is meant to be like a consumer Linux. Just for the average person. We'll see what happens. Microsoft is also trying to make their own sort of community. On Sat Nov 18 18:22 , Saill White sent: >On 11/18/2006 04:06 PM, Peter Flodin wrote: >> So I would say, yes Novell can enter in to agreements in regard to >> openSUSE.org > >Got it. I guess. So this is not true then: >On 11/18/2006 10:02 AM, susedevel(a)torchlighttech.com wrote: >> OpenSuSE has no such third party software nor does it have corporate support. If >> you have problems you have to check out the forums. It'd be REALLY hard for >> Microsoft to force their patents on OpenSuse mainly because it's open source. > >The preamble to "Microsoftâs Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org" states: >> From time to time, individual developers wish to contribute their authored code to openSUSE.org projects. It is Microsoftâs intent that this pledge be legally binding and enforceable as to such individual contributors according to the terms below. >I agree that "openSUSE.org" doesn't sound like a legal entity. Is Microsoft talking about people who send electronically transmit code to the IP address that hosts openSUSE.org? What about people who instead submit code to the slightly different Novell IP address that hosts forge.novell.com. Geez, you'd think with all those lawyers they'd be a little more thorough. > >Finally the only legal agreement I can find between Novell and independent contributors to OpenSUSE and NovellForge is as follows: > >> >> User Submissions >> >> Any material, information or other communication You transmit or post to this web site (including, but not limited to, ideas, suggestions, feedback, bug identification, content, code, copyrighted materials or materials protected by other intellectual property laws) will be considered non-confidential and non-proprietary communications. Novell will have no obligations with respect to the communications. Novell and its designees will be free to copy, disclose, distribute, incorporate and otherwise use the communications and all data, images, sounds, text and other things embodied therein for any and all commercial or non-commercial purposes. > >So anything that anyone sends to OpenSUSE or NovellForge immediately becomes the property of Novell. Novell itself has no special legal relationship with it's contributors. Therefore, I don't understand how Microsoft can purport to have such a relationship through an agreement reached with Novell. Seems like Novell's giving away something that doesn't belong to them. > >By the way, I'm not interested in fighting, quite the opposite. The way I see it, Novell has left Suse in a dark dead-end alley with a mean bully. I'm looking for unlocked doors to escape through. > >> Pflodo >> Peter Flodin >> > >Saill >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Update on the Microsoft deal - Letter to the Community by Novell
by Dominique Leuenberger 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

>>> Reply on 21-11-2006 14:03:21 <<< > On Tuesday 21 November 2006 13:44, Dominique Leuenberger wrote: > > > I would say that Microsoft checked their software and found out that > > they were infringing Novell Patents. For this reason they pushed to > this > > agreement and are now happy they have their customers save. > > Then shouldn't it have to read "At Microsoft we undertook our own > analysis of > __Novell's__ patent portfolio and concluded that it was necessary and > important to create a patent covenant for customers of these products. > We are > gratified that such a solution is now in place." > > ? This would probably have been a better way to express themself. But have you ever seen a text by Microsoft which really revealed what they wanted to say? OT: I just remember a KB entry about a bluescreen with a lot of bla bla and by the end the conclusion was: 'works as designed'. Since then I know I have to interpret all Microsoft texts. O zi buna! Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] IRC meeting about Novell/Microsoft deal - 2006-11-23 18:00 CET (17:00 GMT)
by Martin Lasarsch 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

Hi as promised in the last IRC meeting we will have a dedicated IRC meeting about the Novell/Microsoft deal. We already had questions in the regular IRC meeting last time, but there might be some questions which are not answered because of the short time we had, or new questions came up ... Nat Friedman, Holger Dyroff and AJ are happy to answer all your questions in the chat this Thursday at 18:00 CET (17:00 GMT). Please check out the information we have so far, many questions should be answered there: http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/openletter.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq_opensource.html http://www.novell.com/news/press/item.jsp?id=1196 If you can't participate and have a question, please enter it on the meeting page at: http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Special_Meeting_2006-11-23 btw: we will have a regular meeting as usual on Wednesday, announcement coming soon. -- with kind regards, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg martin.lasarsch(a)suse.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- simply change to www.suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project]Re:Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by Jay Smith 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

In a legal sense, MS cannot violate the GPL. Simple as that. That license thing is just to reassure us, or better yet, let us know that they know that they can't break the GPL. That's why they wrote that. Just look at the forums and mailing lists. We Linux developers are showing a genuine concern over whether Microsoft will take over or not. Really that agreement isn't for us as a contract, it's really just stating that they understand that they can't attack the GPL. I mean it's nothing new to us. Anyone whom has used Linux, they can then understand that Linux is under the GPL. So open source isn't news to us but we are showing a fear of Microsoft. They are letting us know that they can't break it. On Mon Nov 20 13:59 , "Paul C. Leopardi" sent: >On Tuesday 21 November 2006 01:05, Martin Schlander wrote: >> Mandag 20 november 2006 00:36 skrev Saill White: >> > Here is the question, more clearly this time: If Novell neither protects >> > its contributors from legal action nor requires that its contributors >> > refrain from taking legal action, how can Novell reach an agreement with >> > Microsoft that allows Microsoft to protect/restrict Novell's contributors >> > in these ways? >> >> That whole part of the deal really is smoke and imho it's pretty >> unimportant. It only has two effects.. >> >> 1) It gives an impression that MS are nice guys that don't sue innocent >> hobbyist developers (PR for the Redmond devils). >> >> 2) A purely psychological effect on people who might have been hesitant to >> contribute to openSUSE for fear of MS patent litigation - assuming any such >> person exisists. I personally doubt it. >... >> The whole deal changes just about nothing for openSUSE. >... >> Everything will be business as usual for the free software community. Stop >> worrying about all the FUD and smoke. > >Martin, >What you have said sounds nice, but it does not address any of my concerns. To >me, it sounds like, "stop worrying and sign the contract on the dotted line >here..." Well, unfortunately, I'm still at the stage of trying to understand >what the contract obliges me as a developer to do, obliges Microsoft to do, >obliges Novell to do. In this case, the contract I am talking about is not >the Novell/Microsoft deal, but the openSUSE "binding contribution agreement" >with its provision on "any licenses, covenants or any other rights under any >Microsoft intellectual property". So far I don't understand what Novell has >decided to do about this binding contribution agreement, nor do I understand >what alternative Novell would use to satisfy Microsoft that condition (ii) >has been met and at the same time satisfy free software developers that the >GPL has not been violated. > >Also, if you actually read "Microsoftâs Patent Pledge for Individual >Contributors to openSUSE.org" you will find that it is not addressed >to "innocent hobbyist developers" but to individual developers, with no >distinction between "compensated" and "uncompensated" developers. As for your >point 2) the psychological effect on me is to replace a non-existent fear >about violating Microsoft patents with a real fear about violating the GPL. > >Now, again, explain to me why "the whole deal changes just about nothing" >and "everything will be business as usual for the free software community". >Best, Paul > > >Best, Paul >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project]Re:Microsoft�s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 20 Nov '06

20 Nov '06

Thank you, someone said it. I am glad. Nothing is changing. I think we may see some MS engineers in these forums and helping develop. I don't know how much they can do though without putting patents in but I am sure they'll give us stuff that they don't care about nor want like MS Solitaire or something. That or they may release a new breed of MS open Source Software, who knows. Ultimately, it doesn't effect us in the community. I am glad that someone was able to explain cause I think I only made situations worse, LOL. I am Jay by the way for anyone whom wanted to know. On Mon Nov 20 6:05 , Martin Schlander sent: >Mandag 20 november 2006 00:36 skrev Saill White: >> Here is the question, more clearly this time: If Novell neither protects >> its contributors from legal action nor requires that its contributors >> refrain from taking legal action, how can Novell reach an agreement with >> Microsoft that allows Microsoft to protect/restrict Novell's contributors >> in these ways? > >That whole part of the deal really is smoke and imho it's pretty unimportant. >It only has two effects.. > >1) It gives an impression that MS are nice guys that don't sue innocent >hobbyist developers (PR for the Redmond devils). > >2) A purely psychological effect on people who might have been hesitant to >contribute to openSUSE for fear of MS patent litigation - assuming any such >person exisists. I personally doubt it. > >The deal does not mean that any openSUSE contributor can infringe MS patents >as he pleases.. well, he could.. but only he himself could use that software. > >Novell have clearly stated that no patented stuff will be included in neither >openSUSE nor SLE. Besides the covenant doesn't cover Novell, if MS patents >are infringed Novell would still get their asses sued. > >The whole deal changes just about nothing for openSUSE. > >- We'll have support for Office "Open" XML in OOo (but I personally expect the >patches will be accepted upstream and will be available on other distros too, >I actually think it's likely at OOo would have implemented the support >anyway.. after all they've worked their asses off reverse engineering .doc, >why wouldn't they support office "open" xml too?, after all it's less evil >than .doc). > >- MS won't sue openSUSE boxset customers and code contributors.. well, did >anybody even consider the possibility that it could happen 4 weeks ago? .. >certainly not me, nothing changed here really. > >- Stuff that's patented by MS will _not_ be implemented in openSUSE. At least >not in a way that infringes on those patents. So nothing's changed here. > >- I guess virtualization will work better, but that's not crucial to most >openSUSE users I guess, and patches to Xen etc. will be free software of >course and available for other vendors. And it will _not_ infringe MS >patents. > >Everything will be business as usual for the free software community. Stop >worrying about all the FUD and smoke. > >Martin >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Closing the Candor Gap at Novell
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 19 Nov '06

19 Nov '06

I agree. This might be what we needed. Perhaps soon, we'll be able to run windows apps without Wine or Cedega or CrossOver but on Linux itself. This also shows that Microsoft is falling. They are now making "open" software. Hmmmm, I read not but a month ago that Ballmer thinks that Vista may be their last Windows. Maybe this is part of that prediction coming true, or at least a start. On Sun Nov 19 9:07 , jdd sur free sent: >Ricardo Cruz a écrit : > >> being fined next week. They must comply; no deal will change a thing. > >this can help them to comply (there is a part on technology >exchange), and this is a very good thing for us... > >jdd > >-- >http://www.dodin.net >http://dodin.org/mediawiki/index.php/GPS_Lowrance_GO >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project]Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 19 Nov '06

19 Nov '06

I agree, they can in terms of the legality of OpenSuse. As for the actual operating system, Even Novell has to yield to the GPL so Microsoft is going to have to as well. Plus, look at how many other distros there are. If Novell does screw this up, people will just flock to Ubuntu or Fedora Core and I think Novell knows this so they will have to ensure that MS keeps in line. On Sat Nov 18 16:06 , "Peter Flodin" sent: >On 11/19/06, Saill White saill.white(a)openlina.com> wrote: >> How can this be legally binding? Did openSUSE.org sign some kind of agreement with Microsoft? Is Novell allowed to enter into legal agreements on openSUSE.org's behalf? > > >openSUSE.org is a _project_ run by Novell. There is no separate legal >identity called openSUSE.org (at least not publicly known). There is >no openSUSE foundation that owns anything. All project copyrights, >trademarks and other IP are held by Novell directly, including the >domain name. Even the community wiki contributions are copyright by >Novell (albeit licensed back using GFDL). > >So I would say, yes Novell can enter in to agreements in regard to openSUSE.org > >Pflodo >Peter Flodin >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re:[opensuse-project]Microsoft�s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 19 Nov '06

19 Nov '06

Probably just smoke and hot air. As an open source community, we all have to be on board, not just Novell in order for us to work with MS. What I Think will happen, MS will have some of their engineers join the community, not to take over but to assist. That's all I can think of. Microsoft has contributed to other Open SOurce companies and communities but I think this is their first linux distribution to contribute to. I think they are going to help us but legally they can't force their patents into OpenSuSE. They can't decide, we're going to make OpenSuSE our OS. It's the communities, I think they are going to contribute to our development. Of course, they can't take complete control. The patent thing probably has something to do with them letting us know that they won't do anything to use their patents to destroy us. I don't know for sure, but I doubt MS is so dumb that they wouldn't realize that since OpenSuSE is GPL'd, they can't do anything to take it over. On Sat Nov 18 15:17 , Saill White sent: >On 11/18/2006 11:32 AM, Chris Bonner wrote: > >> susedevel(a)torchlighttech.com','','','')">susedevel(a)torchlighttech.com>> wrote: >> >> >> OpenSuSE has no such third party software nor does it have corporate >> support. If >> you have problems you have to check out the forums. It'd be REALLY >> hard for >> Microsoft to force their patents on OpenSuse mainly because it's >> open source. >> Also, do you think the community will allow that. None of us are >> going to give MS >> the money for patents. As long as we remain open source, microsoft >> will be really >> limited. We are a community and can do what we want w or w/o >> microsoft. Even if >> Novell wanted them to, as a maintainer, they must heed to the GPL. >> Being such a >> large company, if they don't, everyone will know. >> >> >> I completely agree. > >That's why it's so creepy that Microsoft mentioned OpenSuse so specifically in "Microsofts Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org" > >How can this be legally binding? Did openSUSE.org sign some kind of agreement with Microsoft? Is Novell allowed to enter into legal agreements on openSUSE.org's behalf? Or is this all just smoke and hot air? > >Saill > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Closing the Candor Gap at Novell
by Andreas Jaeger 19 Nov '06

19 Nov '06

Saill White <saill(a)dloo.com> writes: > [...] > If Dr. Jaffe's speaking style is anything like his writing style > it's no wonder that you were all still deeply confused after several > hours of "very open discussion". What a nightmare that must have > been. Jeff Jaffe's discussion style was very open and he answered our question clearly. It was not a nightmare, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj(a)suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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[opensuse-project] Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by Paul C. Leopardi 19 Nov '06

19 Nov '06

Hi all, Apologies for the cross-post, but after I posted my reply on opensuse-amd64 I realized that it would be more appropriate to post to this list. Essentially, I am concerned that "Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org" is incompatible with the GPL and that it may therefore slow down or halt contributions to openSUSE.org. I am especially concerned about Microsoft's suggested "provision" and want to know whether openSUSE.org will use Microsoft's language when accepting contributions. See http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse-amd64/2006-11/msg00016.html Best regards --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project]Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 19 Nov '06

19 Nov '06

I am not sure what's going on there. Though Novell may be the maintainer of Opensuse, they really can't impose. Microsoft can do whatever they want with Novell when it comes to SLES and SLED since they are considered "proprietary Linux". They can't sell the Linux operating system in and of itself but if they add additional support or third part software, it's then legitimate to sell a Linux distro. OpenSuSE has no such third party software nor does it have corporate support. If you have problems you have to check out the forums. It'd be REALLY hard for Microsoft to force their patents on OpenSuse mainly because it's open source. Also, do you think the community will allow that. None of us are going to give MS the money for patents. As long as we remain open source, microsoft will be really limited. We are a community and can do what we want w or w/o microsoft. Even if Novell wanted them to, as a maintainer, they must heed to the GPL. Being such a large company, if they don't, everyone will know. On Fri Nov 17 18:44 , "Paul C. Leopardi" sent: >Hi all, >Apologies for the cross-post, but after I posted my reply on opensuse-amd64 I >realized that it would be more appropriate to post to this list. Essentially, >I am concerned that "Microsoftâs Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to >openSUSE.org" is incompatible with the GPL and that it may therefore slow >down or halt contributions to openSUSE.org. I am especially concerned about >Microsoft's suggested "provision" and want to know whether openSUSE.org will >use Microsoft's language when accepting contributions. > >See http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse-amd64/2006-11/msg00016.html >Best regards >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Closing the Candor Gap at Novell
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 17 Nov '06

17 Nov '06

lol, well it's not unusual at all for a company to give that huge of an ammount. Not only was Novell suing Microsoft but they were also assisting Europe in their lawsuit against Microsoft so that was a double attack on Microsoft. I don't know that all of the money went to that but I am guessing that some of it did. On Thu Nov 16 20:19 , Saill White sent: >On 11/16/2006 05:46 PM, susedevel(a)torchlighttech.com wrote: >> Microsoft has had a history with Novell. Novell has entered suits and helped with >> Lawsuits against microsoft. Part of that payment might have been a sort of >> settlement or apology. > >Wow, 350 million is a nice apology. > >Wait, Microsoft owes ME an apology, for subjecting me to VB6 and Access. And for that week when I spent all my spare time trying to recover a friend's corrupted Outlook data. > >I'm going to call Steve Ballmer first thing in the morning! > >Saill > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Closing the Candor Gap at Novell
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 17 Nov '06

17 Nov '06

Microsoft has had a history with Novell. Novell has entered suits and helped with Lawsuits against microsoft. Part of that payment might have been a sort of settlement or apology. On Thu Nov 16 10:22 , Saill White sent: >On 11/16/2006 06:47 AM, Martin Schlander wrote: >> >> 2) There's truth to rumours that Novell extorted MS with some patent dirt. >> (Rumour supported by Simon Phipps from Sun among others). > >I was thinking about that possibility a bit more. > >If they had uncovered Novell-patented ideas in MS code, then the obvious sweet move would be to sue the pants off everyone in Redmond. It wouldn't be such quick cash, but meanwhile they could reap the benefits of mass FUD amongst Microsoft customers who might turn to Suse out of fear that Novell would pull a reverse-SCO against them. THAT would have made them super-stars in Linux land. > >Of course if it was someone else's patented ideas they uncovered... Hmm. > >Still they should have come up with a better story to explain the cash exchange. > >> Martin > >Saill >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Closing the Candor Gap at Novell
by Saill White 16 Nov '06

16 Nov '06

I'm posting this here because I want to reach Novell/Suse developers without throwing it to the wolves on the opensuse user lists. I've been reading all there is to read about the Novell/MS deal since it happened. My company had been considering doing business with Novell, so I'd already been doing diligence. For us the deal changed everything. Definitely made us take a step back from Novell. Novell had been our favorite company because of its developers. I've had Suse on my desktop for more than two years now, and I tend to be more of a dilettante than a loyalist when it comes to OS's. Just haven't had an urge to change. And I can easily find whatever help I need in the mailing list archives. The connection between Novell/Suse engineers and users is unparalleled. There is a feeling of real openness in this community. Watching the fallout from the Deal has magnified my faith in Novell/Suse developers. I am very impressed with how publicly you are struggling with this, questioning it, and expressing opinions about on mailing lists and in on-the-record meetings. I understand that most of you are guardedly optimistic about the whole thing. The contrast between the openness in the developer community and the corporate-style disinformation coming from the Novell execs is glaring. It is much more this lack of candor at the executive level than the deal itself that makes us nervous about going forward with Novell. There is a lot of speculation about the REAL reasons Novell went into this - slipping revenues, sudden need for cash, massive internal FUD due to musical-chairs style executive turnovers... Any or all of these reasons are understandable. I would be greatly relieved to hear these reasons from Mr. Hovsepian or Mr. Jaffe, or anyone at the top level. No matter how sordid the real reasons are, I'm sure they are perfectly sensible and human and reasonable in the context of running a major corporation that has been floundering for quite a while. If the executives started behaving with the candor of the engineers, I believe that they would have a chance of regaining some of the trust of the Open Source community. Some of you guys actually sit down with the execs from time to time, right? What are the chances that you could convince them that if they started to adopt public openness into their corporate culture they would be a lot more credible as supporters of Open Source and Open Standards? I think right at this moment Novell is at a tipping point between closed-door oligarchy and real freedom and creativity. You guys are smart. I have faith you'll figure out a way to give the company a nudge. Saill White saill.white(a)openlina.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] IRC discussion on Agreement? When?
by Boyd Lynn Gerber 14 Nov '06

14 Nov '06

Hello. Last Week in the IRC meeting it was agreed to have an other meeting this week with notice to have all who wanted there to ask/answer questions. What is happening? When is it? Thanks, -- Boyd Gerber <gerberb(a)zenez.com> ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Question on openSUSE and Novell-MS collaboration
by noniko 09 Nov '06

09 Nov '06

Hi, Recently I have read about many post about Novell-MS collaboration in opensuse(a)opensuse.org ML (Though it is an ML for general support....). I'd like to how openSUSE should think about this topic. I don't think it a weird question, because the "Microsoft/Novell Collaboration" news is at the top page of opensuse.org site. For example: 1.It is a very important news to openSUSE, so the users should keep watching on this topic. 2.It is just a matter of Novell and has nothing or very little to do with openSUSE. 3.openSUSE only report the news and do not think it should make any comments. 4.Now discussing. Later there'll be some announcement from openSUSE. Either of the 4 would be all right for me. I just like to know. noniko noniko(a)netbeans.jp --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Reminder: openSUSE status meeting 2006/11/08 18:00 CET
by Martin Lasarsch 06 Nov '06

06 Nov '06

Hi The next openSUSE status meeting will take place at the official #opensuse-project IRC channel on freenode (irc://irc.freenode.net/openSUSE-project) this Wednesday at 2006/11/08 18:00 CET (16:00 GMT) This meeting is meant to discuss the latest developments in and around openSUSE. Please add your topics to the meeting wiki page at: http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Status_Meeting_2006-11-08 as soon as possible. Also, if you cannot attend the meeting, but have questions you want to see discussed, please add them to the meeting wiki page as well. For general info about our IRC meetings read: http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/About For a general technical introduction to IRC (Internet Relay Chat) see http://www.irchelp.org/ (not affiliated with openSUSE) or enter "IRC help" into your preferred search engine. The network we use is freenode - for more information on this, including how to find a server, visit http://freenode.net/ (not affiliated with openSUSE either). -- with kind regards, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg martin.lasarsch(a)suse.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- simply change to www.suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] SPAM: Novell MS Deal
by Tony Pott 04 Nov '06

04 Nov '06

To all the people at SuSE, I know this isn't your fault, and I'm sorry I have to stop using your excellent work. I'm sad to have to change to another distro, I've been a fanboy since SuSE 8.0, but this deal is just disgusting. Best of luck Tony Pott --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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