- openSUSE Project

Re: [opensuse-project] Re: Some "noble silence" please (was: Invitation to OpenSUSE developers)
by Rajat Upadhyaya 25 Nov '06

25 Nov '06

>>> Darryl Gregorash <raven(a)accesscomm.ca> 11/25/06 12:15 PM >>> So what's the SABDFL (presumably a reference to Shuttleworth) in Burgundavia's blog mean, "self-appointed, benign and divine, fearless leader"? Self-appointed benign dictator for life, AFAICT. Rajat --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

1 0

[opensuse-project] Upgrade from one suse to the next
by Jay Smith 25 Nov '06

25 Nov '06

Hey, with the upcoming arrival of OpenSuse 10.2, I was wondering, can anyone tell me how to upgrade from one suse to a higher version w/o having to use a CD/DVD? I am imagining that there must be some way to upgrade from OpenSuSe 10.1 itself or online or something. Let me know if anyone has any idea. Thanks --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

3 2

Re: [opensuse-project] Invitation to OpenSUSE developers
by Jay Smith 24 Nov '06

24 Nov '06

I have no problem with you expressing an opinion, we are open after all. I do have a problem with you showing disrespect to OpenSuSE. Sure Novell might be making a pact with Microsoft which in some ways are benefitting us because there is a gap between windows and Linux and on a business perspective, that gap NEEDS to be closed, but we are our own programmers. We are as open source as Ubuntu is. We may have a corporation behind us but so does UBuntu, Canonical if I am not mistaken. I am sure that Ubuntu will be in the same shoes as Novell one day since Canonical seems to want to make Enterprise Level Linux and in reality, the only way to do so is to figure interoperability with Windows and possibly Mac. I do IT consulting for Open source and while I am crusading for open source, I also realize that due to the gap between OS Platforms, it is difficult to make someone want to move. Some people have a very special software that only works for Windows. Software like Encompass and there are very few, if any alternatives that will work on Linux. I think interoperability is a great idea as long as Microsoft doesn't attempt to take over Linux, which they can't thanks to the GPL, and I doubt that this community will allow it to. We may have a corporation backing us, but moving to Ubuntu won't solve it since Ubuntu is part of Canonical. I am not saying that no one should go join Ubuntu, I am part of Ubuntu myself, what I am saying is that your reason shouldn't be because Novell is a huge corporation or this whole Microsoft pact. Your reason should be more noble and as for you Mark, please do not enter are mailing lists and bad mouth our projects and suggest we move to yours. That is very tactless, especially for those reasons. On Fri Nov 24 10:16 , Mark Shuttleworth sent: >Novellâs decision to go to great lengths to circumvent the patent >framework clearly articulated in the GPL has sent shockwaves through the >community. If you are an OpenSUSE developer who is concerned about the >long term consequences of this pact, you may be interested in some of >the events happening next week as part of the Ubuntu Open Week: > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek > >We are hosting a series of introductory sessions for people who want to >join the Ubuntu community - in any capacity, including developers and >package maintainers. If you want to find out how Ubuntu works, how to >contribute or participate, or how to get specific items addressed, there >will be something for you. Iâll also be on IRC on Tuesday 28th to answer >any questions you may have of me specifically, such as Luisâ questions >about our position on software patents at >http://tieguy.org/blog/2006/11/22/and-ubuntus-patent-stand/ > >There are a couple of sessions that would be particularly interesting >for folks familiar with OpenSUSE. The Kubuntu team is hosting some >events during the week to look at KDE and Ubuntu and to discuss the >roadmap of their project. There are also a few events being hosted by >the Ubuntu Desktop teamâs, which I think should include some discussion >of the ideas that came from the recent Ubuntu Developer Summit in >Mountain View. There are a couple of Packaging 101 and Package >Maintenance sessions too, specifically for developers. > >Ubuntu is structured to empower our community to get things done, and to >maximise the opportunity for collaboration between teams that share a >common vision (even if itâs not 100% of their vision, such as between >the Gnome, KDE and XFCE desktop teams). While weâre always open to new >members, we thought it would be a good idea to identify a dedicated week >where new members would be the focus for our whole project. > >If you have an interest in being part of a vibrant community that cares >about keeping free software widely available and protecting the rights >of people to get it free of charge, free to modify, free of murky >encumbrances and âundisclosed balance sheet liabilitiesâ, then please do >join us. > >I know that posting this message to an OpenSUSE list will be >controversial. I'm greatly respectful of the long tradition of >excellence in the SuSE product and community and have no desire to >undermine that with this post. That said, I think the position taken by >Novell leadership in their contract with Microsoft is hugely >disrespectful of the contributions of thousands of GPL programmers and >contributors to SuSE, and I know that many are looking for a new place >to get involved that is not subject to the same arbitrary executive >intervention. Ubuntu is one option, as are Gentoo, Debian and other >communities. Please accept this mail in that spirit. > >Mark > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

1 0

[opensuse-project] MD5SUMS of Development DVD's
by Freek de Kruijf 24 Nov '06

24 Nov '06

I have been looking for the MD5SUMS of the DVD's of the Development version openSUSE 10.2 Beta2. However I have not found these. One can only download these DVD's via Bittorrent and this may be enough to ensure that there are no errors, but I an not sure about this. So my suggestion to put these SUMS also in the page behind MDS5SUMS. -- fr.gr. Freek --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

2 3

[opensuse-project] Update on the Microsoft deal - Letter to the Community by Novell
by Andreas Jaeger 22 Nov '06

22 Nov '06

We've updated the material at: http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/ There's now an letter from our CEO Ron Hovsepian, I quote it in full below, Andreas ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On November 2, Novell and Microsoft announced a significant, multi-part agreement to work together to improve the interoperability between Linux and Windows and for Microsoft to redistribute more than 350,000 subscriptions for SUSE Linux Enterprise to the Windows customer base over a five-year period. This agreement is at the heart of what IT users demand - to deploy both Linux and Windows, and to have them work well together - and many companies have spoken out in support of this new cooperation. Customers told us that they wanted Linux and Windows to work together in their data centers, and so we agreed to develop new technologies and standards in server management, virtualization and document file format compatibility. CIOs want to focus on their business, and they want their suppliers to focus on improving operating system interoperability. The Linux community will benefit from the creation and release of the open source code to improve Linux's interoperability with Windows that will result from this agreement. Our interest in signing this agreement was to secure interoperability and joint sales agreements, but Microsoft asked that we cooperate on patents as well, and so a patent cooperation agreement was included as a part of the deal. In this agreement, Novell and Microsoft each promise not to sue the other's customers for patent infringement. The intended effect of this agreement was to give our joint customers peace of mind that they have the full support of the other company for their IT activities. Novell has a significant patent portfolio, and in reflection of this fact, the agreement we signed shows the overwhelming balance of payments being from Microsoft to Novell. Since our announcement, some parties have spoken about this patent agreement in a damaging way, and with a perspective that we do not share. We strongly challenge those statements here. We disagree with the recent statements made by Microsoft on the topic of Linux and patents. Importantly, our agreement with Microsoft is in no way an acknowledgment that Linux infringes upon any Microsoft intellectual property. When we entered the patent cooperation agreement with Microsoft, Novell did not agree or admit that Linux or any other Novell offering violates Microsoft patents. Our stance on software patents is unchanged by the agreement with Microsoft. We want to remind the community of Novell's commitment to, and prior actions in support of, furthering the interests of Linux and open source, and creating an environment of free and open innovation. We have a strong patent portfolio and we have leveraged that portfolio for the benefit of the open source community. Specifically, we have taken the following actions: * We have stated our commitment to use our own software patents to protect open source technologies. http://www.novell.com/company/policies/patent/ * We have spoken out against EU legislation that would liberalize the standards for granting software patents. http://www.novell.com/company/policies/patent/european.html * We offer indemnification to our Linux customers accused of intellectual property infringement. http://www.novell.com/licensing/indemnity/ * We have teamed with the United States Patent and Trademark Office and other industry leaders to reduce the issuance of "bad patents" in the software area. http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1911979,00.asp * In 2005, we co-founded Open Invention Network (´OIN¡), ´an intellectual property company that was formed to promote Linux by using patents to create a collaborative environment.¡ Novell's substantial contributions to OIN were made to benefit not only ourselves, but also other Linux vendors, distributors and developers, and anyone else willing to commit not to assert their patents against Linux. http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/ In closing, we wish to be extremely clear that Novell is committed to protecting, preserving and promoting freedom for free and open source software. We recognize that the community of open source developers is essential to all our activities in Linux, and we welcome dialog with the community as to how we can continue to work together toward these common goals. Ron Hovsepian Chief Executive Officer Novell, Inc. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj(a)suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

5 8

Re: [opensuse-project] Update on the Microsoft deal - Letter to the Community by Novell
by Dominique Leuenberger 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

>>> Reply on 21-11-2006 13:43:41 <<< > On Tuesday 21 November 2006 12:29, Kevin Donnelly wrote: > > On Tuesday 21 November 2006 09:52, Andreas Jaeger wrote: > > > There's now an letter from our CEO Ron Hovsepian, I quote it in > full > > > below, > > > > This is a very useful development. Paragraphs 3: > > > Our interest in signing this agreement ... > > > > and 5: > > > We disagree with the recent statements made by Microsoft > > > > are particularly helpful. > > What is this? Doesn't smell right. > > http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/nov06/11-20Statement.mspx > > "We at Microsoft respect Novell's point of view on the patent issue, > even > while we respectfully take a different view. Novell is absolutely right > in > stating that it did not admit or acknowledge any patent problems as part > of > entering into the patent collaboration agreement. At Microsoft we > undertook > our own analysis of our patent portfolio and concluded that it was > necessary > and important to create a patent covenant for customers of these > products. We > are gratified that such a solution is now in place." > I would say that Microsoft checked their software and found out that they were infringing Novell Patents. For this reason they pushed to this agreement and are now happy they have their customers save. Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

4 3

[opensuse-project] Date change:IRC meeting about Novell/Microsoft deal - 2006-11-27 18:00 CET (17:00 GMT)
by Martin Lasarsch 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

Hi We got a lot of response from our American friends that Thursday is not a good date because of Thanksgiving. We apologize for the inconvenience and moved the meeting to Monday 2006-11-27. Below the changed invitation, this time also with IRC server information :-) --- as promised in the last IRC meeting we will have a dedicated IRC meeting about the Novell/Microsoft deal. We already had questions in the regular IRC meeting last time, but there might be some questions which are not answered because of the short time we had, or new questions came up ... The meeting will take place at the official #opensuse-project IRC channel on freenode (irc://irc.freenode.net/openSUSE-project) Monday 2006-11-27 at 18:00 CET (17:00 GMT) Nat Friedman, Holger Dyroff and AJ are happy to answer all your questions in the chat. Please check out the information we have so far, many questions should be answered there: new: http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/community_open_letter.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/openletter.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq_opensource.html http://www.novell.com/news/press/item.jsp?id=1196 If you can't participate and have a question, please enter it on the meeting page at: http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Special_Meeting_2006-11-27 The network we use for the meeting is freenode - for more information on this, including how to find a server, visit http://freenode.net/ (not affiliated with openSUSE). -- with kind regards, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg martin.lasarsch(a)suse.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- simply change to www.suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

1 0

Re: [opensuse-project] Re:[opensuse-project]Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

Let's break this down, or attempt to. With many open source projects, there are developers whom want to contribute to the open source with their code, like many people in this community. Essential, what I am gathering, is that Microsoft won't force their patents on anyone whom wants to contribute to OpenSuSE. Microsoft naturally has patents, and people are concerned that they are going to bring their patents into open source. They will not force their patents onto anyone whom is contributing their developments onto OpenSuSE. We know that with the GPL, microsoft can't assert patents on OpenSuSE the OS, the Patent Pledge is to let us know that they won't attack the individuals whom make OpenSuSE.org possible. It's more to protect MS than us it seems. Since Microsoft is going to be contributing, they will have "patents" on the software they contribute but they are letting us know that they won't impose the same patents on anyone else developing. In the end, we can all do what we've been doing. Microsoft isn't going to make us follow their patents when we do our development. Nothing has changed too much for us. onto that other thing with Novell owning what we say, taht's not it at all. What it is, what is said here, no one owns. So if Novell, or anyone else, decides to take what is said in say a forum and put it in their marketing material, they can. If I decide to write a magazine article containing information from this mailing list, I can. It's like, Open Source for words. I am not into fighting either. Part of me is content with the pact, part of me is not. I am not a fan of MS at all, I've used solely Linux for 2 years now and I am glad I haven't looked back. One thing I wish we had though was the ability to use certain Microsoft software like iTunes or TaxCut on Linux. That's why I am happy about this because of the inter operability issue. I am upset because it's Microsoft. I don't want an OS with a bunch of Microsoft's applications on it. A few, maybe, but not a lot. To a degree, Novell needed to do this in order to help make SuSE more appealing to businesses. That's what SLED and SLES are for, business. OpenSuSE is meant to be like a consumer Linux. Just for the average person. We'll see what happens. Microsoft is also trying to make their own sort of community. On Sat Nov 18 18:22 , Saill White sent: >On 11/18/2006 04:06 PM, Peter Flodin wrote: >> So I would say, yes Novell can enter in to agreements in regard to >> openSUSE.org > >Got it. I guess. So this is not true then: >On 11/18/2006 10:02 AM, susedevel(a)torchlighttech.com wrote: >> OpenSuSE has no such third party software nor does it have corporate support. If >> you have problems you have to check out the forums. It'd be REALLY hard for >> Microsoft to force their patents on OpenSuse mainly because it's open source. > >The preamble to "Microsoftâs Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org" states: >> From time to time, individual developers wish to contribute their authored code to openSUSE.org projects. It is Microsoftâs intent that this pledge be legally binding and enforceable as to such individual contributors according to the terms below. >I agree that "openSUSE.org" doesn't sound like a legal entity. Is Microsoft talking about people who send electronically transmit code to the IP address that hosts openSUSE.org? What about people who instead submit code to the slightly different Novell IP address that hosts forge.novell.com. Geez, you'd think with all those lawyers they'd be a little more thorough. > >Finally the only legal agreement I can find between Novell and independent contributors to OpenSUSE and NovellForge is as follows: > >> >> User Submissions >> >> Any material, information or other communication You transmit or post to this web site (including, but not limited to, ideas, suggestions, feedback, bug identification, content, code, copyrighted materials or materials protected by other intellectual property laws) will be considered non-confidential and non-proprietary communications. Novell will have no obligations with respect to the communications. Novell and its designees will be free to copy, disclose, distribute, incorporate and otherwise use the communications and all data, images, sounds, text and other things embodied therein for any and all commercial or non-commercial purposes. > >So anything that anyone sends to OpenSUSE or NovellForge immediately becomes the property of Novell. Novell itself has no special legal relationship with it's contributors. Therefore, I don't understand how Microsoft can purport to have such a relationship through an agreement reached with Novell. Seems like Novell's giving away something that doesn't belong to them. > >By the way, I'm not interested in fighting, quite the opposite. The way I see it, Novell has left Suse in a dark dead-end alley with a mean bully. I'm looking for unlocked doors to escape through. > >> Pflodo >> Peter Flodin >> > >Saill >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

6 7

Re: [opensuse-project] Update on the Microsoft deal - Letter to the Community by Novell
by Dominique Leuenberger 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

>>> Reply on 21-11-2006 14:03:21 <<< > On Tuesday 21 November 2006 13:44, Dominique Leuenberger wrote: > > > I would say that Microsoft checked their software and found out that > > they were infringing Novell Patents. For this reason they pushed to > this > > agreement and are now happy they have their customers save. > > Then shouldn't it have to read "At Microsoft we undertook our own > analysis of > __Novell's__ patent portfolio and concluded that it was necessary and > important to create a patent covenant for customers of these products. > We are > gratified that such a solution is now in place." > > ? This would probably have been a better way to express themself. But have you ever seen a text by Microsoft which really revealed what they wanted to say? OT: I just remember a KB entry about a bluescreen with a lot of bla bla and by the end the conclusion was: 'works as designed'. Since then I know I have to interpret all Microsoft texts. O zi buna! Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

1 0

[opensuse-project] IRC meeting about Novell/Microsoft deal - 2006-11-23 18:00 CET (17:00 GMT)
by Martin Lasarsch 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

Hi as promised in the last IRC meeting we will have a dedicated IRC meeting about the Novell/Microsoft deal. We already had questions in the regular IRC meeting last time, but there might be some questions which are not answered because of the short time we had, or new questions came up ... Nat Friedman, Holger Dyroff and AJ are happy to answer all your questions in the chat this Thursday at 18:00 CET (17:00 GMT). Please check out the information we have so far, many questions should be answered there: http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/openletter.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq_opensource.html http://www.novell.com/news/press/item.jsp?id=1196 If you can't participate and have a question, please enter it on the meeting page at: http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Special_Meeting_2006-11-23 btw: we will have a regular meeting as usual on Wednesday, announcement coming soon. -- with kind regards, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg martin.lasarsch(a)suse.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- simply change to www.suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

2 1