April 2024 - openSUSE Project - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse-project] How we will use the GSoC money
by Vincent Untz 18 Jul '24

18 Jul '24

Hi, (let's see how a public discussion about money goes :-)) The Google Summer of Code brings us great students, but also means that the openSUSE project will get $8000 (if I'm not mistaken) at the end of the summer. That's $500 per student. A while ago, I requested comments on my blog about what to do with the money, but didn't get any feedback. So I take this as "do what you feel is best", and this mail is about the plan. As a reminder, the main issue is that we will likely not have the openSUSE Foundation created in time for this. For instance, Google would like us to get some form filled before the end of June; this is not a mandatory timeline, but I think it shows that we won't be ready with the Foundation for that. The current plan is to give that money to another organization we feel close to, and I have two candidates in mind: - the Software Freedom Conservancy (http://sfconservancy.org/) it's a really nice org that provides a home for various cool projects (see http://sfconservancy.org/members/current/) and those projects help make openSUSE a great project. - the Desktop Summit (https://www.desktopsummit.org/) it's one of the biggest event this year, and this would help us have some more visibility (since we'd be sponsors, I guess). I'm sure they would welcome this to secure their budget. Note that an alternative solution would be to leave the money to Google for a future GSoC or similar program, but I feel it's better to use the money where it can make a difference today. Now, it's not too late to change the plan. If you have a better suggestion, please tell us. There's no need to argue forever about it, just explain why you think it's good. Keep in mind that if we cannot receive the money ourselves, this also means that we cannot use it to buy stuff for openSUSE. Pavol and I will take the final decision since we are the GSoC admins for openSUSE. Thanks, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Resigning my membership
by Jan Ritzerfeld 25 Jun '24

25 Jun '24

To the openSUSE community, Almost 20 years ago, I subscribed to the project's German mailing list. Unfortunately, in recent years, I've witnessed numerous discussions here ending poorly. While each incident could be attributed to misunderstandings or assumptions, the repeated assumption of bad faith and the subsequent aggressive enforcement of the Code of Conduct, including personal attacks, harassment, or violent language, contradicts the guiding principle of "working together in an open, transparent and friendly manner". So I've decided to resign my membership today, fondly recalling all the positive moments shared within the community. I've already unsubscribed from all of the project's mailing lists, with the obvious exception of this one. Have a lot of fun... Jan

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Ask your openSUSE Board candidates questions
by ddemaio 17 Jun '24

17 Jun '24

Hi all, Per a conversation some of us had at the community meeting last Thursday, we wanted to get discussions for the project started regarding this year's openSUSE Board elections. We listed a few questions in the minutes at https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/weeklymeeting20221103 You can find some of those questions in the 1103 meeting minutes between lines 48 and line 54. Please ask your questions (Ask us Anything) in this thread so we can keep the conversations focused and centralized for all the candidates and members who want to ask questions of the candidates. All the candidates are in cc and you can find their profiles at the board election wiki. https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election v/r Doug

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openSUSE Membership Officials - looking for volunteers
by Gerald Pfeifer 21 May '24

21 May '24

Hi folks, as you may know, at openSUSE we have three bodies helping with the governance of the project: · the board, · the election officals (who run board elections and the occasional other membership vote), and · the membership officials (who vet and approve membership applications). After conversations between membership officials and the board, we now plan to expand the group of membership officials and are looking for some volunteers. If you are intestered to serve in that capacity and an openSUSE member yourself already, please reach out to me or board(a)opensuse.org. Don't be shy, effort is moderate (though it can come in bursts); no hacking skills required! Gerald -- Dr. Gerald Pfeifer <gp(a)suse.com>, CTO @SUSE + chair @openSUSE

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Board statement on the Code of Conduct.
by Simon Lees 30 Apr '24

30 Apr '24

Let me confirm that all board members unanimously agree that the Code of Conduct applies uniformly across all openSUSE community spaces and platforms including mailing lists, forums, IRC and others. Additionally we believe it applies to all individuals contributing to or representing the community, including any instances where a member is choosing to use an @opensuse.org email address, IRC Cloak or any other mention of a relationship to openSUSE in there communication. Simon Lees (on behalf of the board) -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

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Tomorrow's openSUSE Release call is cancelled
by Lubos Kocman 30 Apr '24

30 Apr '24

Hello openSUSE Tomorrow's openSUSE Release call is cancelled as most countries have a public holiday. Everyone is welcome to provide an update for the past week in the etherpad https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/ReleaseEngineering-20240501 Many thanks and enjoy the sunny weather! ps. I noticed that all release call sessions in calendar-o-o were cancelled, so that should be fixed now. -- Best regards Luboš Kocman openSUSE Leap Release Manager

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On the efficacy of the openSUSE Board
by Richard Brown 19 Apr '24

19 Apr '24

Dear Project, The latest incident on this list has me questioning the efficacy of the openSUSE Board While I am not yet at the point of joining the calls for their full re-election, I do feel the Board as a whole and as individuals need to do more to justify the trust we put in them as a Project. The entire operation of the Board can only ever work if the Project trusts its Board. I do not see how Project members with integrity can do so at the moment. This fact undermines any decision, guidance or conflict resolution action of the Board and leads to a perverse situation where the morally & ethically “right” action could well be to ignore the Board and its decisions. Before I highlight concerns regarding individual Board members, I think the biggest issue is one they need to address as a whole - how the Board communicate and defend their decisions as a Board. I strongly believe that the Board should defend its decisions as a group. Once a decision is made, I feel the Board should all, collectively, own it and defend it. I do not think Board decisions can be defended individually. The whole point of the Board is to decide on topics (eg. conflict resolution) where individual empowerment has failed and an independent body is needed to step in and chart a course, often a controversial one. Easy decisions shouldn't need the Board. It is an imperfect model - In my time on the Board I certainly hated repeatedly defending decisions I disagreed with, but it is the role the Project requires. If the Board does not wish to operate under this model, then I think the only way forward is for each individual Board member to be far more active and visible than most of them currently are. Taking this recent incident as an example. I've been able to clearly take away the following from the recent incident: Simon has continued his mindset of "tolerating intolerance" and advocating for the support and inclusion of people who breach our community standards. This is consistent with his views during the "Rainbow flag" discussions of 9 months ago. His views do not appear to have evolved over those 9 months and I feel should disqualify them from being a Board member. I expressed this view both in my vote and in my campaigning for any-other-candidate in the last election, and intend to continue to do so. Neal and Gerald have been quietly supportive of the concept of consistent moderation, but I'd characterise their engagement with the thread as 'diplomatically attempting to avoid conflict', sometimes at the expense of addressing what needs to be addressed. I cannot say that I am wholly confident that I know where either of them stand or whether they believe very strongly on this topic. Gertjan was obviously strongly supportive of the concept of consistent moderation, to the point where he has clearly resigned over his perceived lack of support from his Board colleagues on the topic. Absolutely nothing has been heard from Douglas (besides wishing Gertjan well) or Patrick. The most generous assessment of their involvement in the Board is that they are currently empty chairs. If I was to speculate, based on Gertjan's decision to resign, it would be reasonable to assume that they lean more towards the Simon-side of the debate, making Gertjan's position for strong moderation clearly untenable as a minority opinion. But we just cannot be sure, because they are effectively absent. If the Board is not going to defend its decisions collectively (and this whole debate was triggered by a Board decision, it was even minuted), then the Board must all be active as individuals. If the Board fails to step up, either as a collective or as individuals, I do not see how they can effectively serve the Project. In its current form, I do not see how Project members are expected to respect, honour, or even consider their views more seriously than any other random person in the Project. Regards, Richard -- Richard Brown Distributions Architect SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH, Frankenstraße 146, D-90461 Nuremberg, Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Directors/Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew McDonald, Werner Knoblich

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Next openSUSE Board Meeting
by ddemaio openSUSE 17 Apr '24

17 Apr '24

The openSUSE board meeting next week is scheduled at a different time than normal. This is planned for April 25 at 15:00 UTC or 17:00 CET. Should you want to join, visit calendar.opensuse.org for more details. v/r Doug

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Gmail and opensuse.org and suse.com mails
by Gerald Pfeifer 17 Apr '24

17 Apr '24

These last days several of us "lost" mails to opensuse.org and suse.com addresses which we ended up finding in Gmail's spam folder. I recommend you have a look there. Gerald

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RE: On the efficacy of the openSUSE Board
by Patrick Fitzgerald 17 Apr '24

17 Apr '24

Richard, Instead of speculating, it would wise to attend the board meetings to take part in the debate, or at least listen to what is going on. Calling 2 members of the board "empty chairs" is insulting and counter productive. If you were to attend you would be party to the decisions and how they came to be made. Oh and the dissent as well. More below though: -----Original message----- From: Richard Brown <rbrown(a)suse.de> Sent: Tuesday 16th April 2024 10:04 To: project(a)lists.opensuse.org Subject: On the efficacy of the openSUSE Board Dear Project, The latest incident on this list has me questioning the efficacy of the openSUSE Board While I am not yet at the point of joining the calls for their full re-election, I do feel the Board as a whole and as individuals need to do more to justify the trust we put in them as a Project. The entire operation of the Board can only ever work if the Project trusts its Board. I do not see how Project members with integrity can do so at the moment. This fact undermines any decision, guidance or conflict resolution action of the Board and leads to a perverse situation where the morally & ethically “right” action could well be to ignore the Board and its decisions. Before I highlight concerns regarding individual Board members, I think the biggest issue is one they need to address as a whole - how the Board communicate and defend their decisions as a Board. Wow. There is so much packed into those paragraphs. I strongly believe that the Board should defend its decisions as a group. Well I agree with that. Once a decision is made, I feel the Board should all, collectively, own it and defend it. Now I'm confused. So you want the whole board to come out, and individually defend the decisions made as a group? Or? I do not think Board decisions can be defended individually. The whole point of the Board is to decide on topics (eg. conflict resolution) where individual empowerment has failed and an independent body is needed to step in and chart a course, often a controversial one. Easy decisions shouldn't need the Board. It is an imperfect model - In my time on the Board I certainly hated repeatedly defending decisions I disagreed with, but it is the role the Project requires. I agree. If the Board does not wish to operate under this model, then I think the only way forward is for each individual Board member to be far more active and visible than most of them currently are. The assumption you make, without any proof, is that board doesn't work the way you think it should. Taking this recent incident as an example. I've been able to clearly take away the following from the recent incident: Simon has continued his mindset of "tolerating intolerance" and advocating for the support and inclusion of people who breach our community standards. This is consistent with his views during the "Rainbow flag" discussions of 9 months ago. His views do not appear to have evolved over those 9 months and I feel should disqualify them from being a Board member. Wow! Sounds like censorship to me. Just saying. I expressed this view both in my vote and in my campaigning for any-other-candidate in the last election, and intend to continue to do so. Noted. And yet Simon still won a seat. Neal and Gerald have been quietly supportive of the concept of consistent moderation, but I'd characterise their engagement with the thread as 'diplomatically attempting to avoid conflict', sometimes at the expense of addressing what needs to be addressed. I cannot say that I am wholly confident that I know where either of them stand or whether they believe very strongly on this topic. Gertjan was obviously strongly supportive of the concept of consistent moderation, to the point where he has clearly resigned over his perceived lack of support from his Board colleagues on the topic. Absolutely nothing has been heard from Douglas (besides wishing Gertjan well) or Patrick. The most generous assessment of their involvement in the Board is that they are currently empty chairs. If I was to speculate, based on Gertjan's decision to resign, it would be reasonable to assume that they lean more towards the Simon-side of the debate, making Gertjan's position for strong moderation clearly untenable as a minority opinion. I wouldn't speculate if I were you. Why don't you participate and attend a board meeting instead? But we just cannot be sure, because they are effectively absent. If the Board is not going to defend its decisions collectively (and this whole debate was triggered by a Board decision, it was even minuted), then the Board must all be active as individuals. If the Board fails to step up, either as a collective or as individuals, I do not see how they can effectively serve the Project. There you go again. Individual or collective? In its current form, I do not see how Project members are expected to respect, honour, or even consider their views more seriously than any other random person in the Project. You have every right to say all of this, however agitating for change without a single formal complaint is... weird. And don't forget, the community have voted, not just you. Personally speaking, I am proud of what I have done whilst initially advising, and later becoming, a board member. Most of that of course has revolved around the Geeko Foundation, which is now administering the TSP and attracting donations from individuals and corporates alike. That is a first for the project, and there will be a lot more news on this in the coming months. So, I really don't think I am an empty chair. Nor is any other member of the board. Best regards! Patrick Regards, Richard -- Richard Brown Distributions Architect SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH, Frankenstraße 146, D-90461 Nuremberg, Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Directors/Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew McDonald, Werner Knoblich

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