November 2006 - openSUSE Project - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [opensuse-project]Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 19 Nov '06

19 Nov '06

I agree, they can in terms of the legality of OpenSuse. As for the actual operating system, Even Novell has to yield to the GPL so Microsoft is going to have to as well. Plus, look at how many other distros there are. If Novell does screw this up, people will just flock to Ubuntu or Fedora Core and I think Novell knows this so they will have to ensure that MS keeps in line. On Sat Nov 18 16:06 , "Peter Flodin" sent: >On 11/19/06, Saill White saill.white(a)openlina.com> wrote: >> How can this be legally binding? Did openSUSE.org sign some kind of agreement with Microsoft? Is Novell allowed to enter into legal agreements on openSUSE.org's behalf? > > >openSUSE.org is a _project_ run by Novell. There is no separate legal >identity called openSUSE.org (at least not publicly known). There is >no openSUSE foundation that owns anything. All project copyrights, >trademarks and other IP are held by Novell directly, including the >domain name. Even the community wiki contributions are copyright by >Novell (albeit licensed back using GFDL). > >So I would say, yes Novell can enter in to agreements in regard to openSUSE.org > >Pflodo >Peter Flodin >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re:[opensuse-project]Microsoft�s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 19 Nov '06

19 Nov '06

Probably just smoke and hot air. As an open source community, we all have to be on board, not just Novell in order for us to work with MS. What I Think will happen, MS will have some of their engineers join the community, not to take over but to assist. That's all I can think of. Microsoft has contributed to other Open SOurce companies and communities but I think this is their first linux distribution to contribute to. I think they are going to help us but legally they can't force their patents into OpenSuSE. They can't decide, we're going to make OpenSuSE our OS. It's the communities, I think they are going to contribute to our development. Of course, they can't take complete control. The patent thing probably has something to do with them letting us know that they won't do anything to use their patents to destroy us. I don't know for sure, but I doubt MS is so dumb that they wouldn't realize that since OpenSuSE is GPL'd, they can't do anything to take it over. On Sat Nov 18 15:17 , Saill White sent: >On 11/18/2006 11:32 AM, Chris Bonner wrote: > >> susedevel(a)torchlighttech.com','','','')">susedevel(a)torchlighttech.com>> wrote: >> >> >> OpenSuSE has no such third party software nor does it have corporate >> support. If >> you have problems you have to check out the forums. It'd be REALLY >> hard for >> Microsoft to force their patents on OpenSuse mainly because it's >> open source. >> Also, do you think the community will allow that. None of us are >> going to give MS >> the money for patents. As long as we remain open source, microsoft >> will be really >> limited. We are a community and can do what we want w or w/o >> microsoft. Even if >> Novell wanted them to, as a maintainer, they must heed to the GPL. >> Being such a >> large company, if they don't, everyone will know. >> >> >> I completely agree. > >That's why it's so creepy that Microsoft mentioned OpenSuse so specifically in "Microsofts Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org" > >How can this be legally binding? Did openSUSE.org sign some kind of agreement with Microsoft? Is Novell allowed to enter into legal agreements on openSUSE.org's behalf? Or is this all just smoke and hot air? > >Saill > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Closing the Candor Gap at Novell
by Andreas Jaeger 19 Nov '06

19 Nov '06

Saill White <saill(a)dloo.com> writes: > [...] > If Dr. Jaffe's speaking style is anything like his writing style > it's no wonder that you were all still deeply confused after several > hours of "very open discussion". What a nightmare that must have > been. Jeff Jaffe's discussion style was very open and he answered our question clearly. It was not a nightmare, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj(a)suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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[opensuse-project] Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by Paul C. Leopardi 19 Nov '06

19 Nov '06

Hi all, Apologies for the cross-post, but after I posted my reply on opensuse-amd64 I realized that it would be more appropriate to post to this list. Essentially, I am concerned that "Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org" is incompatible with the GPL and that it may therefore slow down or halt contributions to openSUSE.org. I am especially concerned about Microsoft's suggested "provision" and want to know whether openSUSE.org will use Microsoft's language when accepting contributions. See http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse-amd64/2006-11/msg00016.html Best regards --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project]Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 19 Nov '06

19 Nov '06

I am not sure what's going on there. Though Novell may be the maintainer of Opensuse, they really can't impose. Microsoft can do whatever they want with Novell when it comes to SLES and SLED since they are considered "proprietary Linux". They can't sell the Linux operating system in and of itself but if they add additional support or third part software, it's then legitimate to sell a Linux distro. OpenSuSE has no such third party software nor does it have corporate support. If you have problems you have to check out the forums. It'd be REALLY hard for Microsoft to force their patents on OpenSuse mainly because it's open source. Also, do you think the community will allow that. None of us are going to give MS the money for patents. As long as we remain open source, microsoft will be really limited. We are a community and can do what we want w or w/o microsoft. Even if Novell wanted them to, as a maintainer, they must heed to the GPL. Being such a large company, if they don't, everyone will know. On Fri Nov 17 18:44 , "Paul C. Leopardi" sent: >Hi all, >Apologies for the cross-post, but after I posted my reply on opensuse-amd64 I >realized that it would be more appropriate to post to this list. Essentially, >I am concerned that "Microsoftâs Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to >openSUSE.org" is incompatible with the GPL and that it may therefore slow >down or halt contributions to openSUSE.org. I am especially concerned about >Microsoft's suggested "provision" and want to know whether openSUSE.org will >use Microsoft's language when accepting contributions. > >See http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse-amd64/2006-11/msg00016.html >Best regards >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Closing the Candor Gap at Novell
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 17 Nov '06

17 Nov '06

lol, well it's not unusual at all for a company to give that huge of an ammount. Not only was Novell suing Microsoft but they were also assisting Europe in their lawsuit against Microsoft so that was a double attack on Microsoft. I don't know that all of the money went to that but I am guessing that some of it did. On Thu Nov 16 20:19 , Saill White sent: >On 11/16/2006 05:46 PM, susedevel(a)torchlighttech.com wrote: >> Microsoft has had a history with Novell. Novell has entered suits and helped with >> Lawsuits against microsoft. Part of that payment might have been a sort of >> settlement or apology. > >Wow, 350 million is a nice apology. > >Wait, Microsoft owes ME an apology, for subjecting me to VB6 and Access. And for that week when I spent all my spare time trying to recover a friend's corrupted Outlook data. > >I'm going to call Steve Ballmer first thing in the morning! > >Saill > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Closing the Candor Gap at Novell
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 17 Nov '06

17 Nov '06

Microsoft has had a history with Novell. Novell has entered suits and helped with Lawsuits against microsoft. Part of that payment might have been a sort of settlement or apology. On Thu Nov 16 10:22 , Saill White sent: >On 11/16/2006 06:47 AM, Martin Schlander wrote: >> >> 2) There's truth to rumours that Novell extorted MS with some patent dirt. >> (Rumour supported by Simon Phipps from Sun among others). > >I was thinking about that possibility a bit more. > >If they had uncovered Novell-patented ideas in MS code, then the obvious sweet move would be to sue the pants off everyone in Redmond. It wouldn't be such quick cash, but meanwhile they could reap the benefits of mass FUD amongst Microsoft customers who might turn to Suse out of fear that Novell would pull a reverse-SCO against them. THAT would have made them super-stars in Linux land. > >Of course if it was someone else's patented ideas they uncovered... Hmm. > >Still they should have come up with a better story to explain the cash exchange. > >> Martin > >Saill >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Closing the Candor Gap at Novell
by Saill White 16 Nov '06

16 Nov '06

I'm posting this here because I want to reach Novell/Suse developers without throwing it to the wolves on the opensuse user lists. I've been reading all there is to read about the Novell/MS deal since it happened. My company had been considering doing business with Novell, so I'd already been doing diligence. For us the deal changed everything. Definitely made us take a step back from Novell. Novell had been our favorite company because of its developers. I've had Suse on my desktop for more than two years now, and I tend to be more of a dilettante than a loyalist when it comes to OS's. Just haven't had an urge to change. And I can easily find whatever help I need in the mailing list archives. The connection between Novell/Suse engineers and users is unparalleled. There is a feeling of real openness in this community. Watching the fallout from the Deal has magnified my faith in Novell/Suse developers. I am very impressed with how publicly you are struggling with this, questioning it, and expressing opinions about on mailing lists and in on-the-record meetings. I understand that most of you are guardedly optimistic about the whole thing. The contrast between the openness in the developer community and the corporate-style disinformation coming from the Novell execs is glaring. It is much more this lack of candor at the executive level than the deal itself that makes us nervous about going forward with Novell. There is a lot of speculation about the REAL reasons Novell went into this - slipping revenues, sudden need for cash, massive internal FUD due to musical-chairs style executive turnovers... Any or all of these reasons are understandable. I would be greatly relieved to hear these reasons from Mr. Hovsepian or Mr. Jaffe, or anyone at the top level. No matter how sordid the real reasons are, I'm sure they are perfectly sensible and human and reasonable in the context of running a major corporation that has been floundering for quite a while. If the executives started behaving with the candor of the engineers, I believe that they would have a chance of regaining some of the trust of the Open Source community. Some of you guys actually sit down with the execs from time to time, right? What are the chances that you could convince them that if they started to adopt public openness into their corporate culture they would be a lot more credible as supporters of Open Source and Open Standards? I think right at this moment Novell is at a tipping point between closed-door oligarchy and real freedom and creativity. You guys are smart. I have faith you'll figure out a way to give the company a nudge. Saill White saill.white(a)openlina.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] IRC discussion on Agreement? When?
by Boyd Lynn Gerber 14 Nov '06

14 Nov '06

Hello. Last Week in the IRC meeting it was agreed to have an other meeting this week with notice to have all who wanted there to ask/answer questions. What is happening? When is it? Thanks, -- Boyd Gerber <gerberb(a)zenez.com> ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Question on openSUSE and Novell-MS collaboration
by noniko 09 Nov '06

09 Nov '06

Hi, Recently I have read about many post about Novell-MS collaboration in opensuse(a)opensuse.org ML (Though it is an ML for general support....). I'd like to how openSUSE should think about this topic. I don't think it a weird question, because the "Microsoft/Novell Collaboration" news is at the top page of opensuse.org site. For example: 1.It is a very important news to openSUSE, so the users should keep watching on this topic. 2.It is just a matter of Novell and has nothing or very little to do with openSUSE. 3.openSUSE only report the news and do not think it should make any comments. 4.Now discussing. Later there'll be some announcement from openSUSE. Either of the 4 would be all right for me. I just like to know. noniko noniko(a)netbeans.jp --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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