November 2006 - openSUSE Project - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse-project] MD5SUMS of Development DVD's
by Freek de Kruijf 24 Nov '06

24 Nov '06

I have been looking for the MD5SUMS of the DVD's of the Development version openSUSE 10.2 Beta2. However I have not found these. One can only download these DVD's via Bittorrent and this may be enough to ensure that there are no errors, but I an not sure about this. So my suggestion to put these SUMS also in the page behind MDS5SUMS. -- fr.gr. Freek --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Update on the Microsoft deal - Letter to the Community by Novell
by Andreas Jaeger 22 Nov '06

22 Nov '06

We've updated the material at: http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/ There's now an letter from our CEO Ron Hovsepian, I quote it in full below, Andreas ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On November 2, Novell and Microsoft announced a significant, multi-part agreement to work together to improve the interoperability between Linux and Windows and for Microsoft to redistribute more than 350,000 subscriptions for SUSE Linux Enterprise to the Windows customer base over a five-year period. This agreement is at the heart of what IT users demand - to deploy both Linux and Windows, and to have them work well together - and many companies have spoken out in support of this new cooperation. Customers told us that they wanted Linux and Windows to work together in their data centers, and so we agreed to develop new technologies and standards in server management, virtualization and document file format compatibility. CIOs want to focus on their business, and they want their suppliers to focus on improving operating system interoperability. The Linux community will benefit from the creation and release of the open source code to improve Linux's interoperability with Windows that will result from this agreement. Our interest in signing this agreement was to secure interoperability and joint sales agreements, but Microsoft asked that we cooperate on patents as well, and so a patent cooperation agreement was included as a part of the deal. In this agreement, Novell and Microsoft each promise not to sue the other's customers for patent infringement. The intended effect of this agreement was to give our joint customers peace of mind that they have the full support of the other company for their IT activities. Novell has a significant patent portfolio, and in reflection of this fact, the agreement we signed shows the overwhelming balance of payments being from Microsoft to Novell. Since our announcement, some parties have spoken about this patent agreement in a damaging way, and with a perspective that we do not share. We strongly challenge those statements here. We disagree with the recent statements made by Microsoft on the topic of Linux and patents. Importantly, our agreement with Microsoft is in no way an acknowledgment that Linux infringes upon any Microsoft intellectual property. When we entered the patent cooperation agreement with Microsoft, Novell did not agree or admit that Linux or any other Novell offering violates Microsoft patents. Our stance on software patents is unchanged by the agreement with Microsoft. We want to remind the community of Novell's commitment to, and prior actions in support of, furthering the interests of Linux and open source, and creating an environment of free and open innovation. We have a strong patent portfolio and we have leveraged that portfolio for the benefit of the open source community. Specifically, we have taken the following actions: * We have stated our commitment to use our own software patents to protect open source technologies. http://www.novell.com/company/policies/patent/ * We have spoken out against EU legislation that would liberalize the standards for granting software patents. http://www.novell.com/company/policies/patent/european.html * We offer indemnification to our Linux customers accused of intellectual property infringement. http://www.novell.com/licensing/indemnity/ * We have teamed with the United States Patent and Trademark Office and other industry leaders to reduce the issuance of "bad patents" in the software area. http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1911979,00.asp * In 2005, we co-founded Open Invention Network (´OIN¡), ´an intellectual property company that was formed to promote Linux by using patents to create a collaborative environment.¡ Novell's substantial contributions to OIN were made to benefit not only ourselves, but also other Linux vendors, distributors and developers, and anyone else willing to commit not to assert their patents against Linux. http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/ In closing, we wish to be extremely clear that Novell is committed to protecting, preserving and promoting freedom for free and open source software. We recognize that the community of open source developers is essential to all our activities in Linux, and we welcome dialog with the community as to how we can continue to work together toward these common goals. Ron Hovsepian Chief Executive Officer Novell, Inc. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj(a)suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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Re: [opensuse-project] Update on the Microsoft deal - Letter to the Community by Novell
by Dominique Leuenberger 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

>>> Reply on 21-11-2006 13:43:41 <<< > On Tuesday 21 November 2006 12:29, Kevin Donnelly wrote: > > On Tuesday 21 November 2006 09:52, Andreas Jaeger wrote: > > > There's now an letter from our CEO Ron Hovsepian, I quote it in > full > > > below, > > > > This is a very useful development. Paragraphs 3: > > > Our interest in signing this agreement ... > > > > and 5: > > > We disagree with the recent statements made by Microsoft > > > > are particularly helpful. > > What is this? Doesn't smell right. > > http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/nov06/11-20Statement.mspx > > "We at Microsoft respect Novell's point of view on the patent issue, > even > while we respectfully take a different view. Novell is absolutely right > in > stating that it did not admit or acknowledge any patent problems as part > of > entering into the patent collaboration agreement. At Microsoft we > undertook > our own analysis of our patent portfolio and concluded that it was > necessary > and important to create a patent covenant for customers of these > products. We > are gratified that such a solution is now in place." > I would say that Microsoft checked their software and found out that they were infringing Novell Patents. For this reason they pushed to this agreement and are now happy they have their customers save. Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Date change:IRC meeting about Novell/Microsoft deal - 2006-11-27 18:00 CET (17:00 GMT)
by Martin Lasarsch 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

Hi We got a lot of response from our American friends that Thursday is not a good date because of Thanksgiving. We apologize for the inconvenience and moved the meeting to Monday 2006-11-27. Below the changed invitation, this time also with IRC server information :-) --- as promised in the last IRC meeting we will have a dedicated IRC meeting about the Novell/Microsoft deal. We already had questions in the regular IRC meeting last time, but there might be some questions which are not answered because of the short time we had, or new questions came up ... The meeting will take place at the official #opensuse-project IRC channel on freenode (irc://irc.freenode.net/openSUSE-project) Monday 2006-11-27 at 18:00 CET (17:00 GMT) Nat Friedman, Holger Dyroff and AJ are happy to answer all your questions in the chat. Please check out the information we have so far, many questions should be answered there: new: http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/community_open_letter.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/openletter.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq_opensource.html http://www.novell.com/news/press/item.jsp?id=1196 If you can't participate and have a question, please enter it on the meeting page at: http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Special_Meeting_2006-11-27 The network we use for the meeting is freenode - for more information on this, including how to find a server, visit http://freenode.net/ (not affiliated with openSUSE). -- with kind regards, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg martin.lasarsch(a)suse.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- simply change to www.suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re:[opensuse-project]Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

Let's break this down, or attempt to. With many open source projects, there are developers whom want to contribute to the open source with their code, like many people in this community. Essential, what I am gathering, is that Microsoft won't force their patents on anyone whom wants to contribute to OpenSuSE. Microsoft naturally has patents, and people are concerned that they are going to bring their patents into open source. They will not force their patents onto anyone whom is contributing their developments onto OpenSuSE. We know that with the GPL, microsoft can't assert patents on OpenSuSE the OS, the Patent Pledge is to let us know that they won't attack the individuals whom make OpenSuSE.org possible. It's more to protect MS than us it seems. Since Microsoft is going to be contributing, they will have "patents" on the software they contribute but they are letting us know that they won't impose the same patents on anyone else developing. In the end, we can all do what we've been doing. Microsoft isn't going to make us follow their patents when we do our development. Nothing has changed too much for us. onto that other thing with Novell owning what we say, taht's not it at all. What it is, what is said here, no one owns. So if Novell, or anyone else, decides to take what is said in say a forum and put it in their marketing material, they can. If I decide to write a magazine article containing information from this mailing list, I can. It's like, Open Source for words. I am not into fighting either. Part of me is content with the pact, part of me is not. I am not a fan of MS at all, I've used solely Linux for 2 years now and I am glad I haven't looked back. One thing I wish we had though was the ability to use certain Microsoft software like iTunes or TaxCut on Linux. That's why I am happy about this because of the inter operability issue. I am upset because it's Microsoft. I don't want an OS with a bunch of Microsoft's applications on it. A few, maybe, but not a lot. To a degree, Novell needed to do this in order to help make SuSE more appealing to businesses. That's what SLED and SLES are for, business. OpenSuSE is meant to be like a consumer Linux. Just for the average person. We'll see what happens. Microsoft is also trying to make their own sort of community. On Sat Nov 18 18:22 , Saill White sent: >On 11/18/2006 04:06 PM, Peter Flodin wrote: >> So I would say, yes Novell can enter in to agreements in regard to >> openSUSE.org > >Got it. I guess. So this is not true then: >On 11/18/2006 10:02 AM, susedevel(a)torchlighttech.com wrote: >> OpenSuSE has no such third party software nor does it have corporate support. If >> you have problems you have to check out the forums. It'd be REALLY hard for >> Microsoft to force their patents on OpenSuse mainly because it's open source. > >The preamble to "Microsoftâs Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org" states: >> From time to time, individual developers wish to contribute their authored code to openSUSE.org projects. It is Microsoftâs intent that this pledge be legally binding and enforceable as to such individual contributors according to the terms below. >I agree that "openSUSE.org" doesn't sound like a legal entity. Is Microsoft talking about people who send electronically transmit code to the IP address that hosts openSUSE.org? What about people who instead submit code to the slightly different Novell IP address that hosts forge.novell.com. Geez, you'd think with all those lawyers they'd be a little more thorough. > >Finally the only legal agreement I can find between Novell and independent contributors to OpenSUSE and NovellForge is as follows: > >> >> User Submissions >> >> Any material, information or other communication You transmit or post to this web site (including, but not limited to, ideas, suggestions, feedback, bug identification, content, code, copyrighted materials or materials protected by other intellectual property laws) will be considered non-confidential and non-proprietary communications. Novell will have no obligations with respect to the communications. Novell and its designees will be free to copy, disclose, distribute, incorporate and otherwise use the communications and all data, images, sounds, text and other things embodied therein for any and all commercial or non-commercial purposes. > >So anything that anyone sends to OpenSUSE or NovellForge immediately becomes the property of Novell. Novell itself has no special legal relationship with it's contributors. Therefore, I don't understand how Microsoft can purport to have such a relationship through an agreement reached with Novell. Seems like Novell's giving away something that doesn't belong to them. > >By the way, I'm not interested in fighting, quite the opposite. The way I see it, Novell has left Suse in a dark dead-end alley with a mean bully. I'm looking for unlocked doors to escape through. > >> Pflodo >> Peter Flodin >> > >Saill >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Update on the Microsoft deal - Letter to the Community by Novell
by Dominique Leuenberger 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

>>> Reply on 21-11-2006 14:03:21 <<< > On Tuesday 21 November 2006 13:44, Dominique Leuenberger wrote: > > > I would say that Microsoft checked their software and found out that > > they were infringing Novell Patents. For this reason they pushed to > this > > agreement and are now happy they have their customers save. > > Then shouldn't it have to read "At Microsoft we undertook our own > analysis of > __Novell's__ patent portfolio and concluded that it was necessary and > important to create a patent covenant for customers of these products. > We are > gratified that such a solution is now in place." > > ? This would probably have been a better way to express themself. But have you ever seen a text by Microsoft which really revealed what they wanted to say? OT: I just remember a KB entry about a bluescreen with a lot of bla bla and by the end the conclusion was: 'works as designed'. Since then I know I have to interpret all Microsoft texts. O zi buna! Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] IRC meeting about Novell/Microsoft deal - 2006-11-23 18:00 CET (17:00 GMT)
by Martin Lasarsch 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

Hi as promised in the last IRC meeting we will have a dedicated IRC meeting about the Novell/Microsoft deal. We already had questions in the regular IRC meeting last time, but there might be some questions which are not answered because of the short time we had, or new questions came up ... Nat Friedman, Holger Dyroff and AJ are happy to answer all your questions in the chat this Thursday at 18:00 CET (17:00 GMT). Please check out the information we have so far, many questions should be answered there: http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/openletter.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq_opensource.html http://www.novell.com/news/press/item.jsp?id=1196 If you can't participate and have a question, please enter it on the meeting page at: http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Special_Meeting_2006-11-23 btw: we will have a regular meeting as usual on Wednesday, announcement coming soon. -- with kind regards, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg martin.lasarsch(a)suse.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- simply change to www.suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project]Re:Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by Jay Smith 21 Nov '06

21 Nov '06

In a legal sense, MS cannot violate the GPL. Simple as that. That license thing is just to reassure us, or better yet, let us know that they know that they can't break the GPL. That's why they wrote that. Just look at the forums and mailing lists. We Linux developers are showing a genuine concern over whether Microsoft will take over or not. Really that agreement isn't for us as a contract, it's really just stating that they understand that they can't attack the GPL. I mean it's nothing new to us. Anyone whom has used Linux, they can then understand that Linux is under the GPL. So open source isn't news to us but we are showing a fear of Microsoft. They are letting us know that they can't break it. On Mon Nov 20 13:59 , "Paul C. Leopardi" sent: >On Tuesday 21 November 2006 01:05, Martin Schlander wrote: >> Mandag 20 november 2006 00:36 skrev Saill White: >> > Here is the question, more clearly this time: If Novell neither protects >> > its contributors from legal action nor requires that its contributors >> > refrain from taking legal action, how can Novell reach an agreement with >> > Microsoft that allows Microsoft to protect/restrict Novell's contributors >> > in these ways? >> >> That whole part of the deal really is smoke and imho it's pretty >> unimportant. It only has two effects.. >> >> 1) It gives an impression that MS are nice guys that don't sue innocent >> hobbyist developers (PR for the Redmond devils). >> >> 2) A purely psychological effect on people who might have been hesitant to >> contribute to openSUSE for fear of MS patent litigation - assuming any such >> person exisists. I personally doubt it. >... >> The whole deal changes just about nothing for openSUSE. >... >> Everything will be business as usual for the free software community. Stop >> worrying about all the FUD and smoke. > >Martin, >What you have said sounds nice, but it does not address any of my concerns. To >me, it sounds like, "stop worrying and sign the contract on the dotted line >here..." Well, unfortunately, I'm still at the stage of trying to understand >what the contract obliges me as a developer to do, obliges Microsoft to do, >obliges Novell to do. In this case, the contract I am talking about is not >the Novell/Microsoft deal, but the openSUSE "binding contribution agreement" >with its provision on "any licenses, covenants or any other rights under any >Microsoft intellectual property". So far I don't understand what Novell has >decided to do about this binding contribution agreement, nor do I understand >what alternative Novell would use to satisfy Microsoft that condition (ii) >has been met and at the same time satisfy free software developers that the >GPL has not been violated. > >Also, if you actually read "Microsoftâs Patent Pledge for Individual >Contributors to openSUSE.org" you will find that it is not addressed >to "innocent hobbyist developers" but to individual developers, with no >distinction between "compensated" and "uncompensated" developers. As for your >point 2) the psychological effect on me is to replace a non-existent fear >about violating Microsoft patents with a real fear about violating the GPL. > >Now, again, explain to me why "the whole deal changes just about nothing" >and "everything will be business as usual for the free software community". >Best, Paul > > >Best, Paul >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project]Re:Microsoft�s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 20 Nov '06

20 Nov '06

Thank you, someone said it. I am glad. Nothing is changing. I think we may see some MS engineers in these forums and helping develop. I don't know how much they can do though without putting patents in but I am sure they'll give us stuff that they don't care about nor want like MS Solitaire or something. That or they may release a new breed of MS open Source Software, who knows. Ultimately, it doesn't effect us in the community. I am glad that someone was able to explain cause I think I only made situations worse, LOL. I am Jay by the way for anyone whom wanted to know. On Mon Nov 20 6:05 , Martin Schlander sent: >Mandag 20 november 2006 00:36 skrev Saill White: >> Here is the question, more clearly this time: If Novell neither protects >> its contributors from legal action nor requires that its contributors >> refrain from taking legal action, how can Novell reach an agreement with >> Microsoft that allows Microsoft to protect/restrict Novell's contributors >> in these ways? > >That whole part of the deal really is smoke and imho it's pretty unimportant. >It only has two effects.. > >1) It gives an impression that MS are nice guys that don't sue innocent >hobbyist developers (PR for the Redmond devils). > >2) A purely psychological effect on people who might have been hesitant to >contribute to openSUSE for fear of MS patent litigation - assuming any such >person exisists. I personally doubt it. > >The deal does not mean that any openSUSE contributor can infringe MS patents >as he pleases.. well, he could.. but only he himself could use that software. > >Novell have clearly stated that no patented stuff will be included in neither >openSUSE nor SLE. Besides the covenant doesn't cover Novell, if MS patents >are infringed Novell would still get their asses sued. > >The whole deal changes just about nothing for openSUSE. > >- We'll have support for Office "Open" XML in OOo (but I personally expect the >patches will be accepted upstream and will be available on other distros too, >I actually think it's likely at OOo would have implemented the support >anyway.. after all they've worked their asses off reverse engineering .doc, >why wouldn't they support office "open" xml too?, after all it's less evil >than .doc). > >- MS won't sue openSUSE boxset customers and code contributors.. well, did >anybody even consider the possibility that it could happen 4 weeks ago? .. >certainly not me, nothing changed here really. > >- Stuff that's patented by MS will _not_ be implemented in openSUSE. At least >not in a way that infringes on those patents. So nothing's changed here. > >- I guess virtualization will work better, but that's not crucial to most >openSUSE users I guess, and patches to Xen etc. will be free software of >course and available for other vendors. And it will _not_ infringe MS >patents. > >Everything will be business as usual for the free software community. Stop >worrying about all the FUD and smoke. > >Martin >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Closing the Candor Gap at Novell
by susedevel＠torchlighttech.com 19 Nov '06

19 Nov '06

I agree. This might be what we needed. Perhaps soon, we'll be able to run windows apps without Wine or Cedega or CrossOver but on Linux itself. This also shows that Microsoft is falling. They are now making "open" software. Hmmmm, I read not but a month ago that Ballmer thinks that Vista may be their last Windows. Maybe this is part of that prediction coming true, or at least a start. On Sun Nov 19 9:07 , jdd sur free sent: >Ricardo Cruz a écrit : > >> being fined next week. They must comply; no deal will change a thing. > >this can help them to comply (there is a part on technology >exchange), and this is a very good thing for us... > >jdd > >-- >http://www.dodin.net >http://dodin.org/mediawiki/index.php/GPS_Lowrance_GO >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org >For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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