August 2018 - openSUSE Users - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse] no Crypt Files in YaST Partitioner (Leap 15.0)
by Carlos F. Lange 25 Aug '18

25 Aug '18

I am trying to create an encrypted virtual disk in Leap 15.0, following the instructions from the Security Guide (https://goo.gl/8qSWgx) "To set up an encrypted virtual disk, launch YaST, switch to the System section, and start Partitioner. Switch to the Crypt Files section and press Add Crypt File." But my YaST Partitioner is not showing the "Crypt Files" section that used to appear under "Volume Manager". I only have the NFS and Btrfs sections. Sometimes there is a package that needs to be installed before certain sections show up in YaST, so I am asking first here, before reporting a bug. I think I installed all relevant packages, but does anyone have that section in their YaST Partitioner and do they know which package provides it? -- Carlos F Lange Gaúcho nas Pradarias https://www.google.com/+CarlosFLange -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

2 2

[opensuse] zypper search --provides --match-exact
by Richmond 25 Aug '18

25 Aug '18

I have xfconfd running on my system, so I think if I type: zypper search --provides --match-exact xfconfd It should tell me what package it is in. It is actually in package xfconf but zypper says no matches found. Is it working properly? rpm -qal xfconf /usr/bin/xfconf-query /usr/lib/xfce4 /usr/lib/xfce4/xfconf /usr/lib/xfce4/xfconf/xfconfd /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.xfce.Xfconf.service /usr/share/doc/packages/xfconf /usr/share/doc/packages/xfconf/AUTHORS /usr/share/doc/packages/xfconf/COPYING /usr/share/doc/packages/xfconf/ChangeLog /usr/share/doc/packages/xfconf/TODO /usr/share/man/man1/xfconf-query.1.gz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

1 1

[opensuse] Leap-15.0: where is perl-Getopt-Mixed package?
by Josef Wolf 25 Aug '18

25 Aug '18

Hello, for about 20 jears, I have used the perl-Getopt-Mixed package in many scripts. Now I reinstalled with Leap-15.0 and can't find this package anymore. Where do I find it? -- Josef Wolf jw(a)raven.inka.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

4 4

[opensuse] Friday quiz: top display - virtual = 0.255t ?
by Per Jessen 24 Aug '18

24 Aug '18

In this screenshot, plasmashell is reported to have "0.255t" of virtual memory: http://files.jessen.ch/0.255t.jpeg what is 0.255t ? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

3 6

[opensuse] Set host/domain-name during install?
by Josef Wolf 24 Aug '18

24 Aug '18

Hello, old opensuse versions used to have a possibility to set hostname and dns name during install. In Leap-15, there seems no longer to be such a possibility. Instead, some random host name is used. Why ist it no longer possible to set hostname during install and what is the way to set it? -- Josef Wolf jw(a)raven.inka.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

8 27

[opensuse] I can no longer join IRC (including the opensuse channel)
by Carlos E. R. 24 Aug '18

24 Aug '18

Hi, When I try to connect to IRC I get refused, with this message: [15:36] [465] robin_listas You are banned from this server- Vulnerable SSH exposed to the public - email proxyscan(a)freenode.net for help (2018/8/16 13.36) [15:36] [465] robin_listas You are banned from this server- Vulnerable SSH exposed to the public - email proxyscan(a)freenode.net for help (2018/8/16 13.36) Initially I got some response from that email, but it has dried out. > > You have been banned from freenode by our automated open proxy scanner. This > means that our proxy scanner was able to exploit software running on your > machine. Please read over http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_proxy#Disadvantages > if you're unfamiliar with the term 'open proxy' or why we don't allow connections from > open proxy hosts on freenode. This is apparently to protect from spam. > So, we've extended our normal scanning for open proxies to also check > whether the machine your connection is coming from has a vulnerable > SSH daemon running on it. ... > In the meantime, once the relatively short automatic kline expires, you > should be able to connect using SASL authentication, as detailed at: > > http://freenode.net/kb/answer/sasl > > At present, clients which have authenticated to their registered > NickServ account during connection don't get scanned for vulnerable SSH > daemons, although that may change if the nature of the spam attacks > changes and requires an amended response. The router is a Comtrend-VG-8050 suplied and managed by the ISP. <http://www.movistar.es/particulares/atencion-cliente/internet/adsl/equipami…> It does not have a setting to close the SSH service. I attempted to close the firewall on it, did not work, as shown by nmap. So I attempted to setup SASL per the instructions on <http://freenode.net/kb/answer/sasl> Connecting to the openSUSE server is impossible: I get an SSL error, "the certificate does not apply to the given host". Continue fails. 16:27] [Info] Looking for server irc.opensuse.org (port 6697)... [16:27] [Info] Server found, connecting... [16:28] [SSL Connection Error] Connection to server irc.opensuse.org (port 6697) lost while waiting for user response to an SSL error. Will automatically reconnect if error is ignored. [16:31] [SSL Connection Warning] The SSL certificate for the server irc.opensuse.org (port 6697) failed the authenticity check. [16:31] [Info] Looking for server irc.opensuse.org (port 6697)... [16:31] [Info] Server found, connecting... [16:31] [SSL Connection Error] Could not connect to irc.opensuse.org (port 6697) using SSL encryption. Either the server does not support SSL (did you use the correct port?) or you rejected the certificate. The certificate does not apply to the given host > The SSL error you got is because you're trying to connect to us via OpenSUSE's CNAME (alias) which isn't covered > by our SSL certs (thanks for bringing that to my attention, I'll look in to whether we should be adding that as > an alt name on our certs) and is correctly solved, as you did, by connecting to chat.freenode.net directly. So I try freenode directly. Error follows: [16:32] [Info] Looking for server chat.freenode.net (port 6697)... [16:32] [Info] Server found, connecting... [16:32] [Info] Negotiating capabilities with server... [16:32] [Notice] -barjavel.freenode.net- *** Looking up your hostname... [16:32] [Notice] -barjavel.freenode.net- *** Checking Ident [16:32] [Notice] -barjavel.freenode.net- *** Found your hostname [16:32] [Notice] -barjavel.freenode.net- *** No Ident response [16:32] [Info] Requesting capabilities: account-notify extended-join multi-prefix sasl [16:32] [Info] SASL capability acknowledged by server, attempting SASL PLAIN authentication... [16:32] [Error] SASL authentication attempt failed. [16:32] [Info] Closing capabilities negotiation. [16:32] [465] robin_listas You are banned from this server- Vulnerable SSH exposed to the public - email proxyscan(a)freenode.net for help (2018/8/16 13.36) [16:32] [Error] Connection to server chat.freenode.net (port 6697) lost: Unknown error. [16:32] [Info] Trying to reconnect to chat.freenode.net (port 6697) in 10 seconds. I use port 6697 because that's the one on Konversation instructions. > At present, clients which have authenticated to their registered > NickServ account during connection don't get scanned for vulnerable SSH > daemons, although that may change if the nature of the spam attacks > changes and requires an amended response. I am registered (robin_listas) and I get blocked on three chats and *was* allowed on another. To further complicate things, I also get on email (on the support ticket): <tickets(a)support.freenode.net>: connect to support.freenode.net[104.25.59.112]:25: Connection timed out ... Final-Recipient: rfc822; tickets(a)support.freenode.net Original-Recipient: rfc822;tickets(a)support.freenode.net Action: failed Status: 4.4.1 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; connect to support.freenode.net[104.25.59.112]:25: Connection timed out So I can not get help from them :-( Log: [Tuesday, August 21, 2018] [5:51:06 PM CEST] Mode You have set personal modes: +RZi (...hibernation...) [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:34 PM CEST] Error Connection to server chat.freenode.net (port 6697) lost: Unknown error. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:35 PM CEST] Info Trying to reconnect to chat.freenode.net (port 6697) in 10 seconds. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:45 PM CEST] Info Looking for server chat.freenode.net (port 6697)... [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:45 PM CEST] Info Server found, connecting... [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:46 PM CEST] Info Negotiating capabilities with server... [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:46 PM CEST] Notice -barjavel.freenode.net- *** Looking up your hostname... [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:46 PM CEST] Notice -barjavel.freenode.net- *** Checking Ident [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:46 PM CEST] Notice -barjavel.freenode.net- *** No Ident response [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:46 PM CEST] Notice -barjavel.freenode.net- *** Found your hostname [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:47 PM CEST] Info Requesting capabilities: account-notify extended-join multi-prefix sasl [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:50 PM CEST] Info SASL capability acknowledged by server, attempting SASL PLAIN authentication... [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:52 PM CEST] Error SASL authentication attempt failed. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:52 PM CEST] Info Closing capabilities negotiation. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Info SASL authentication aborted. <====================== [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Welcome Welcome to the freenode Internet Relay Chat Network robin_listas [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Welcome Your host is barjavel.freenode.net[195.154.200.232/6697], running version ircd-seven-1.1.4 [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Welcome This server was created Sat Jan 7 2017 at 03:00:47 CET [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Welcome Server barjavel.freenode.net (Version ircd-seven-1.1.4), User modes: DOQRSZaghilopswz, Channel modes: CFILMPQSbcefgijklmnopqrstvz [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Support robin_listas CHANTYPES=# EXCEPTS INVEX CHANMODES=eIbq,k,flj,CFLMPQScgimnprstz CHANLIMIT=#:120 PREFIX=(ov)@+ MAXLIST=bqeI:100 MODES=4 NETWORK=freenode STATUSMSG=@+ CALLERID=g CASEMAPPING=rfc1459 are supported by this server [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Support robin_listas CHARSET=ascii NICKLEN=16 CHANNELLEN=50 TOPICLEN=390 DEAF=D FNC TARGMAX=NAMES:1,LIST:1,KICK:1,WHOIS:1,PRIVMSG:4,NOTICE:4,ACCEPT:,MONITOR: EXTBAN=$,ajrxz CLIENTVER=3.0 WHOX ETRACE CPRIVMSG are supported by this server [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Support robin_listas CNOTICE KNOCK SAFELIST ELIST=CTU are supported by this server [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Users There are 116 users and 85951 invisible on 34 servers [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Users 30 IRC Operators online [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Users 36 unknown connection(s) [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Users 51699 channels formed [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Users I have 5556 clients and 1 servers [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Users Current users on barjavel.freenode.net: 5556, max 7620. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Users Current users on the network: 86067, max 97718 [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Users Highest connection count: 7621 (7620 clients) (5179095 connections received) [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] MOTD Message of the day: ... And on the only chat that "appears" to connect: [Tuesday, August 21, 2018] [5:51:14 PM CEST] Created This channel was created on 12/22/06 1:19 AM. (...hibernation...) [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Notice -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via ^B/msg NickServ identify <password>^B. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] CTCP Received Version request from freenode-connect. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:53 PM CEST] Notice -freenode-connect- Due to the persistent ongoing spam, all new connections are being set +R (block messages from unidentified users) and will be scanned for vulnerabilities. This will not harm your computer, and vulnerable hosts will be notified. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:59 PM CEST] Join You (~cer(a)85.red-79-147-98.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) have joined the channel #opensuse-es. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:59 PM CEST] Topic The channel topic is "Bienvenido al canal de asistencia técnica de openSUSE en castellano | Versión actual: Leap 15.0 | Versión siempre a la última: Tumbleweed | Paciencia es la única ciencia". [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:59 PM CEST] Topic The topic was set by javier!~quassel@opensuse/member/javierllorente on 5/28/18 4:41 PM. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:59 PM CEST] URL Channel URL: http://es.opensuse.org/ [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:52:59 PM CEST] Nick ^Obi-Wan^ is now known as Obi-Wan. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:53:00 PM CEST] Quit Obi-Wan (~obi-wan(a)190.red-80-59-77.staticip.rima-tde.net) has left this server (Changing host). [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:53:00 PM CEST] Join Obi-Wan (~obi-wan@unaffiliated/obi-wan) has joined this channel. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:53:01 PM CEST] Mode Channel modes: no colors allowed, no messages from outside, topic protection [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [12:53:01 PM CEST] Created This channel was created on 12/22/06 1:19 AM. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [1:46:57 PM CEST] Quit Isgleas (~fisgleas(a)89.238.178.212) has left this server (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [3:54:41 PM CEST] Join Isgleas (~fisgleas(a)137.175.78.188.dynamic.jazztel.es) has joined this channel. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [4:41:52 PM CEST] Quit Isgleas (~fisgleas(a)137.175.78.188.dynamic.jazztel.es) has left this server (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [5:07:41 PM CEST] Join Notxor (~Notxor(a)213.143.49.246) has joined this channel. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [5:50:24 PM CEST] Join gretamar (~gretamar(a)181.120.18.238) has joined this channel. [Wednesday, August 22, 2018] [5:51:02 PM CEST] Quit gretamar (~gretamar(a)181.120.18.238) has left this server (Client Quit). And I can not write, or at least, I see nobody posting in days, since I enabled SASL. As of this moment, it is even worse, I can not connect at all: [20:12] [Info] Looking for server chat.freenode.net (port 6697)... [20:12] [Info] Server found, connecting... [20:12] [Info] Negotiating capabilities with server... [20:12] [Notice] -weber.freenode.net- *** Looking up your hostname... [20:12] [Notice] -weber.freenode.net- *** Checking Ident [20:12] [Notice] -weber.freenode.net- *** No Ident response [20:12] [Notice] -weber.freenode.net- *** Found your hostname [20:12] [Info] Requesting capabilities: account-notify extended-join multi-prefix sasl [20:12] [Info] SASL capability acknowledged by server, attempting SASL PLAIN authentication... [20:13] [error] Closing Link: 85.red-79-147-98.dynamicip.rima-tde.net (Connection timed out) [20:13] [Error] Connection to server chat.freenode.net (port 6697) lost: Unknown error. [20:13] [Info] Trying to reconnect to chat.freenode.net (port 6697) in 10 seconds. [20:13] [Info] Looking for server chat.freenode.net (port 6697)... [20:13] [Info] Server found, connecting... [20:13] [Info] Negotiating capabilities with server... [20:13] [Notice] -weber.freenode.net- *** Looking up your hostname... [20:13] [Notice] -weber.freenode.net- *** Checking Ident [20:13] [Notice] -weber.freenode.net- *** Found your hostname [20:13] [Notice] -weber.freenode.net- *** No Ident response [20:13] [Info] Requesting capabilities: account-notify extended-join multi-prefix sasl [20:13] [Info] SASL capability acknowledged by server, attempting SASL PLAIN authentication... [20:14] [error] Closing Link: 85.red-79-147-98.dynamicip.rima-tde.net (Connection timed out) [20:14] [Error] Connection to server chat.freenode.net (port 6697) lost: Unknown error. [20:14] [Info] Trying to reconnect to chat.freenode.net (port 6697) in 10 seconds. and it tries and tries... no success. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

8 21

[opensuse] Short Howto Closing System (Linux or Win) Using rufus + clonezilla
by David C. Rankin 24 Aug '18

24 Aug '18

All, We have had a couple of threads on the best way to clone a system to a larger disk, whether straight dd, or some tool like clonezilla. Well, after using the windows system image, and dd, I decided to try clonezilla - I should have done that long ago... While I generally use the windows backup system image to create an image and boot disk, and then boot with the new drive in the system and the image attached via USB, this time I had the miss's computer which for all things bad about M$ (on of the rocks I have left), is Win7 Home-Premium is intentionally crippled by M$ so it will not create a system image. That just means another way around. I looked at AOMEI Backupper and EASUS Todo Backup, both have freeware standard models that will either clone or with image allowing something similar to Win system image, they are free as-in-cost, but not free as-in-from-hidden-phone-home. So after considering the options, I just went with the standard debian based clonezilla. Glad I did. Why? Pretty ingenious. Conezilla has a "Other modes of Clonezilla live" boot option which will load everything needed from the boot disk to RAM then freeing the boot media to be used as the target of the device-to-device clone. What this allows is completely eliminating the steps of creating the system image and then loading it back to the newly installed drive. Instead clonezilla installed to your new SSD will boot via USB and load everything to RAM freeing all locks on the USB connected SSD allowing it to be used as the direct target in a disk-to-disk clone. So you simply boot clonezilla, choose "Other modes of Clonezilla live", then "Clonezilla live (to RAM, Boot media can be removed)" set your Locale and change the keyboard mapping (if needed), then start clonezilla and choose "device-device" select the source (original) drive and target (new) drive, choose "disk_to_local_disk", say yest a couple of times and you are done! Your newly cloned drive is now the same drive you booted clonezilla with ready to install and boot your clones OS. If you are working from windows and need to burn the clonezilla .iso to your new USB drive, just use the GPL3 rufus package. Simple one screen chose .iso, advanced options, list USB drives, select and burn the iso to your now bootable new drive. https://rufus.akeo.ie/ Restart, and make sure you boot from that drive, clone as above and you are done. This is the process outlined at: https://clonezilla.org/show-live-doc-content.php?topic=clonezilla-live/doc/… The only addition is using rufus to put the clonezilla iso on your new drive (way easier than the methods listed -- yes, I've emailed the clonezilla devs with that info as well :) If you need to clone a system, this is a pretty slick and painless way to do it all with GPL software. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

3 9

[opensuse] where did the "encrypted home directory" option go?
by Carlos F. Lange 24 Aug '18

24 Aug '18

I just noticed now (did not need it for a couple of years) that Leap 15 does not offer to encrypt the home partition of a new user. Yast used to offer the option and create a virtual disk image, which then was mounted as the user home in /home, using the user password for decryption. Now the only options are to encrypt the whole disk, the whole home partition or to create a separate virtual disk to be mounted by the user. Does anyone know why the encrypted home directory was removed? -- Carlos F Lange Gaúcho nas Pradarias -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

3 6

[opensuse] Leap-15.0: how to switch to single user mode?
by Josef Wolf 23 Aug '18

23 Aug '18

Hello, if i give the command "telinit s" (on VT1 of course) the screen is blanked and only a cursor blinks at the top left corder. If I use CTL-ATL-F1 to switch to VT1 again, I see the last contents of that VT1. The last command I gave (the "telinit s") just hangs. I'd expect either a root shell or a prpmopt to type the root password to get a shell. What gives? How can I switch to single user mode? -- Josef Wolf jw(a)raven.inka.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

9 24

Re: Post to opensuse@opensuse.org denied: Re: [opensuse] Re: Firefox: is this a possible security problem?
by L A Walsh 23 Aug '18

23 Aug '18

opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org wrote: > Hi, this is the Mlmmj program managing the <opensuse(a)opensuse.org> mailing > list. > > The message from <suse(a)tlinx.org> with subject "Re: [opensuse] Re: Firefox: > is this a possible security problem?" was unable to be delivered to the > list because of an access rule set up by the list administrator. > > (The denied message is below.) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: [opensuse] Re: Firefox: is this a possible security problem? > From: > L A Walsh <suse(a)tlinx.org> > Date: > Wed, 22 Aug 2018 12:13:26 -0700 > To: > SuSE Linux <opensuse(a)opensuse.org>, Hagen Buliwyf > <hagen.buliwyf(a)t-online.de> > > To: > SuSE Linux <opensuse(a)opensuse.org>, Hagen Buliwyf > <hagen.buliwyf(a)t-online.de> > > > > > Hagen Buliwyf wrote: >> This here >> >> https://github.com/ghacksuserjs/ghacks-user.js/releases >> >> helped me a lot to learn about the "important" about:config-options.' > --- > Not much about "about-config" entries. I seems to tell you > to go off and find other places for what things do. > > Any source will be a bit dated after a while, but when I am > talking about definitions of the about:config options, I'm > thinking more about something like the table below. > > Of note, there are no added spaces in the actual name, but it looks > like they were added to allow a smaller column width. > > > (from > http://kb.mozillazine.org/About:config_entries#Update._and_Update_notificat….) > > > Update. and Update_notifications. > > Name Type Meaning of Values > *update. interval* Integer Determines how often to check > *extensions.update.interval* and *app.update.interval* in milliseconds. > Default value is *3600000* (1 hour). > *update. severity* Integer Used by the update system to determines > when to display the icon for pending updates. > *0* (default): Low severity update(s) available (extension/theme updates) > *1*: Medium severity update(s) available (numerous extension/theme updates) > *2*: High severity updates available (new version of Firefox/security > patch) > *update. showSlidingNotification* Boolean *True* (default): Display > the sliding alert when updates are available > *False*: Opposite of the above > *update_notifications. enabled* Boolean *True* (default): Display a > notification in the browser when updates are available > *False*: Opposite of the above > *update_notifications. provider. 0. datasource* String Determines > where to get update notifications. Value is pulled from > chrome://browser-region/locale/region.properties. > *update_notifications. provider. 0. frequency* Integer Number of days > between update checks. Default value is *7*. > Can whatever rule that disables a formatted table in HTML in an email be updated to allow simple posting of such to work? It's truely annoying that some lists have to stick with rules that usually do more harm than good. Maybe it will allow it as an image...*sigh* >

3 2