December 2015 - openSUSE Users - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [opensuse] Re: Moderation on mailing list
by Ruben Safir 27 Dec '15

27 Dec '15

the whole thing is stupid and details aren't important. Even a rational person who is annoyed wouldn't excersize his power like this. He might ban you for a week from the factory list, but this is over the top and blatantly facist. Very European, I might add. Take it to a commitee and make a broad sweeping abusive action. Ruben On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 06:21:18AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > On 2015-12-25 23:26, jdd wrote: > > Le 25/12/2015 22:35, Michal Hrusecky a écrit : > > > >> World where people like to listen to arguments and address > >> problems in a > > > > I could never see any post in witch Carlos have been disruptive. > > He himself say there was one and he apologies. > > Notice that Richard consider disruptive technical discussions in which > people do not agree with him on technical grounds. > > Specially on "his" lists. > > The one really bad was intended as a private mail that went public by > mistake, while I was drinking a coctail with Vodka. Not that I was > drunk even close, just "happy". > > > but may these mails where removed from archives? > > No. > > > if not, give a link, please, thanks > > Richard made a list, and I replied in another post which other people > have forwarded to the maillist, in another of these broken threads :-) > > > - -- > Cheers / Saludos, > > Carlos E. R. > > (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > iF4EAREIAAYFAlZ/dU4ACgkQja8UbcUWM1ylgAD8CjqArNOvWjMQxkA6Ckcr6CQp > Z0DxU+cH6HKGctzd7k0A+wQcH6ZlJYQz/bsi9OsZPDtbMSlDttygN9Wy6ywnyF2f > =bVj6 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse] The community demands for Richard Brown to resign Now
by Ruben Safir 27 Dec '15

27 Dec '15

The community demands for Richard Brown to resign Now for their censorship of Carlos ER and their refusal to recognize the grievous error they made. Their actions and explanations reflect the most terrible abuses that any FLOSS group can abuse its users with and therefore the must STEP DOWN NOW. Ruben -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse] On forum mods
by Ruben Safir 27 Dec '15

27 Dec '15

On 12/27/2015 12:23 AM, Xen wrote: > Carlos E. R. schreef op 27-12-2015 3:18: > >> On 2015-12-27 00:04, Xen wrote: >>> I do feel it is inappropriate forwarding the mail to the list, to >>> circumvent the ban. >> >> Sorry. >> It is also inappropriate to accuse one person of things (what RB is >> doing to me now), if I'm unable to defend myself and refute his >> points. Other people here, no matter how well meaning, don't know the >> facts and can't refute him. > > I know, but patience. Circumventing the ban will be held against you. > Sometimes you just have to 'suffer ill fortune'. > > I guess in the end everything would be revealed, but it might take a > while :(. > > Trust me, I have very unfair treatment going against my own person but > you still have to play by the rules (of human conduct, so to speak) to win. > There is no historical evidence for that, whatsoever. > The rules of the game are set. Life is about discovering them and then > not violating them ;-). If you play by the rules, you win ;-). > Eventually, at least. > > >> >> One more thing. >> Ruben and all, >> >> I appreciate your understanding. But one request: please moderate your >> language :-)) > > > But letting your feelings out can also feel very good ;-). Particularly > when another does it. > > I mean you are right and I'm still not clear on everything. And I often > land myself in a lot of trouble by using hard language. > > But I have found no alternative as of now for myself. Maybe it is > because I'm young and uncontested ;-). > > Overall I feel little regret in having used these words, but I do regret > the outcomes. > > And sometimes the same word, uttered without negative aggression, can > have a very positive impact, immediately. > > Politely insulting people, yes, heh ;-). > > People often take stabs at you and I often respond with an insult before > they leave...... > > I know it is a moment of instant rage, but thus far I agree with it more > than my behaviour of the past. I never insulted people. > > This means that today, I am more often in the situation that I cannot > count on certain people anymore. They would not help me because I have > insulted them. > > Had I held my tongue, they would still be helping me but I would suffer > for it. More. > > So for today I prefer to be alone and without help rather than be with > help but not make myself clear. > > It is also impatience, and expressing something faster, perhaps. > > > >> I understand it is your way of talking. It is, to a big extent, that >> of many of my fellow countrymen, too. (And mine. Spanish is a rich >> language in insults). Yet you say that I'm very polite. Thus you will >> understand what an effort of self restraint it is to me to not only be >> polite but appear to be so ;-) >> >> And in a different language and for an international audience! >> >> And being externally polite, but with un-polite back-meaning is, I >> learned recently, called "being passive-aggressive", something which >> I'm unable to detect. My failure. > > It's not your failure. Passive aggressive is not a flaw. It is a way to > deal with a stronger opponent. If you cannot resist or rebel in any > obvious way, you will do so with more subtle means. > > Actually it is those times when you were not passive-aggresive that they > now (also) hold against you. > > When you made visible stabs. > > In general we can say that your natural mode of behaviour is something > that works for you. > > If you change it, or follow someone else's advice, you lose the > integration of your person. You will start to act in ways that are not > congruent with who you are. > > So first advice is always: stay who you are. Don't deviate from it. > Don't follow advice from another person. Don't do it if you wouldn't > have done it yourself. > > >> My native way of talking would be the contrary: speak rough, but with >> kind meaning. We can tell someone lovingly "son of a bitch" (hijo de >> puta, hdp, hideputa), and it is not (always) an insult (a mother can >> tell that to her son, lovingly). But the same words can be a huge >> insult depending on the tone and real intent. Complicated, is it not? >> >> >> Well, I ask you to be as polite as you possibly can. Rough handling >> others will not help me. I know how difficult it can be ;-) > > Alright but I often cannot hold my tongue. It is just impossible ;-). > > >> And it might be an excuse to ban others :-( > > I am more hungry than concerned with being banned somewhere or not :-/. > > > I guess these are rather first-world problems for me. > > I usually don't even have food these days. > > So don't mind me, but I do not have patience or time for being "polite". > > Regards... > -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse] The Post that got Carlos ER Banded !!
by Ruben Safir 27 Dec '15

27 Dec '15

On 2015-11-13 11:34, Johannes Meixner wrote: If package version downgrade is sufficiently easy for the user I will think about printer driver version upgrades for Leap. Yes, but many users do not know how to do it. Ie, fire yast package manager, go to the version tab, manually select the appropriate version (which may come from the OSS repo, not from update repo), etc. I have an additional question: Is it possible to provide a package version upgrade for Leap in an optional way? Yes, updates can be marked optional. YaST online update does not mark them, but they are offered on display. However, the short description (meaning a line or two) must make clear to the user that he should not apply the update unless he has this or that problem. With my user hat on, I'd say that it is very tempting to "tick" any optional update ;-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse] LibreOffice
by John Andersen 27 Dec '15

27 Dec '15

Is there a Opensuse repository for LibreOffice 5.x (OS 13.2) anywhere? It seems the Opensuse packages are all several releases behind, stuck at version 4.3.7 which is so old that even the LibreOffice site doesn't acknowledge its existence any more. Does anyone have experience with the packages on the LO site for Version 5.0.4? -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse] On forum mods
by Ruben Safir 27 Dec '15

27 Dec '15

>> >> We call this "image management". And that is what everything comes >> down to. > > One more thing. > Ruben and all, > > I appreciate your understanding. But one request: please moderate your > language :-)) > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_dx7CkA0ck > I understand it is your way of talking. It is, to a big extent, that > of many of my fellow countrymen, too. (And mine. Spanish is a rich > language in insults). Yet you say that I'm very polite. Thus you will > understand what an effort of self restraint it is to me to not only be > polite but appear to be so ;-) > > And in a different language and for an international audience! > > And being externally polite, but with un-polite back-meaning is, I > learned recently, called "being passive-aggressive", something which > I'm unable to detect. My failure. > > My native way of talking would be the contrary: speak rough, but with > kind meaning. We can tell someone lovingly "son of a bitch" (hijo de > puta, hdp, hideputa), and it is not (always) an insult (a mother can > tell that to her son, lovingly). But the same words can be a huge > insult depending on the tone and real intent. Complicated, is it not? > > > Well, I ask you to be as polite as you possibly can. Rough handling > others will not help me. I know how difficult it can be ;-) > > And it might be an excuse to ban others :-( > > - -- > Cheers / Saludos, > > Carlos E. R. > > (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > iF4EAREIAAYFAlZ/SosACgkQja8UbcUWM1wxkgD7BSgcevTvghvw/gdoc56OXf8c > dEGYd2d+ppNfcKzs+xkA/jjSG3u6xkiIhAL0/r+vKpbWSxMf8+RXtSDo1f21NJGC > =K5Xm > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse] Re: The Post that got Carlos ER Banded !!
by Linda Walsh 27 Dec '15

27 Dec '15

Looks like this somehow ended up in my mbox, but was intended for the list... so, as one who has been wrongfully banned from groups, thought I'd pass it on. FWIW, note that many of the participants are in different countries and may have been brought up with very different views about expectations about 'correct' behavior. Really doesn't seem very tolerant for an international list to exact such penalties in such subjective & arbitrary cases. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [opensuse] The Post that got Carlos ER Banded !! Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 16:11:26 +0100 References: <20151225230454.GA14689(a)www.mrbrklyn.com> <20151225230613.GB14689(a)www.mrbrklyn.com> <20151225231732.GW3618(a)workbook.ipv6.hrusecky.net> <567DD022.1000904(a)my.liu.edu> <CAA0b23xJY=S1payYVyN04oLB8zfvJykfw9VaFXLp45TXTdNfjQ(a)mail.gmail.com> On 2015-12-26 11:08, Richard Brown wrote: > On 25 December 2015 at 23:24, Ruben Safir <> wrote: >> On 12/25/2015 06:17 PM, Michal Hrusecky wrote: >>> What about not attacking people, behaving like an adult and not lying >>> and if you really want, than pickup the right mail? Constant spreading >>> of FUD across various mailing lists was one of the reasons for Carlos >>> ban. Michael, I was never spreading FUD. In the worst case, that's a matter of opinion, thus I was banned for expressing my opinions. Like now, I can not defend myself from what I feel are public attacks by Richard and others. Perhaps someone can repost this to the mail list. >>> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-11/msg00439.html >>> >> >> in your sick mind you think that was worthy of a ban. >> >> Your nuts. >> >> Honestly. A ban is supposed to correct behaviour. Well, as I have never understood what I did wrong, I can not correct my behaviour. And three months is excesive. > > Honestly, conducting yourself in accordance with our guiding > principles ( https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Guiding_principles ) > would be a lot productive. Please calm down, review the link, and lets > discuss anything which needs to be discussed in a respectful, adult, > way, please? The guiding principles only apply to Members. Not to other users or contributors. Because members have accepted them voluntarily. Imposing the code on others is an imposition. > As both I and now Michal have explained, there was not one post or > incident that triggered Carlos' ban > > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-11/msg00439.html was > the final straw after a long string of issues on the -project, > -factory, and -translation mailinglists I apologized for that single post. The rest are false accusations. > I'll try to tackle this chronologically, but as this was a long drawn > out affair I apologise in advance with anything I get muddled > > I think the first incident of relevance to this topic is the fact that > Carlos was banned from forums.opensuse.org for repeatedly instigating > & participating in unproductive discussions and arguments, including > arguments with the admin staff of the forums. I do not have links to > share on that as I was not personally a witness, but one of our admins > posted about it here (in a thread which I will refer to more later): > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00806.html About the web forum. Many people liked me (they have a method to quantify that). I posted something like 20000 posts, although the counter there says now something like 16. Only the web staff, and perhaps a few others, thought differently. About arguing with moderators: due to my mode of access (nntp) I can not distinguish who is a moderator, and even less, when he is acting as moderator, and not as another user. After the forum ban, I decided that it was impossible to interact with the forum without angering the staff somehow (impossible to me), and I decided not to come back, and return to more tolerant waters. That I thought. > -- > > One major incident (that included a number of examples which > contributed to the ban) was the situation with translations > > This story is long and complicated, so for the sake of clarity and in > the hope of putting this topic to bed I will do my best to summarise > it here > > With the increased focused on Tumbleweed, and the fundamental changes > to how Leap was being put together, it was clear that the previous > tools, processes, and methods of our translation teams were no longer > up to the job > > Or, to put it another way, Tumbleweed and Leap wasn't being translated > at all. Carlos actually did a very good job of raising this concern > some weeks before - > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-09/msg00777.html > > Some years ago, there was an effort by a number of contributors to > implement 'Weblate' as a translation tool for openSUSE. It had some > support from some translators, and significant support from developers > across the project (as it was better aligned with the tooling and > processes they were using, eg. git - therefore making it easier for > them to contribute also). However there was vocal objection to it from > some of our existing translators, including Carlos Rather from the majority of the translators. Have a look at this post, from another person, it explains very well the issues: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2015-10/msg00057.html ie, it was not me attacking fellow contributors, as you say in my ban order. It was other contributors attacking translators, and that is fine. We are lesser contributors. We "don't do it"- > With both Tumbleweed and Leap translations paralysed by a lack of > translations, a number of contributors took it upon themselves to > implement Weblate and, as a proof of concept, went ahead and relocated > some of the files requiring translation to Weblate The non translation of TW is intentional. Many translators consider it impossible to do, no matter what technical means are provided. Translators typically prefer to translate only the stable releases, not the betas. The problem with Leap is lack of resources on some key positions. Not a translator problem/issue. And many of those files moved to weblate are still untranslated for Leap. Have a look at the Spanish release notes - and there are about half a dozen translators, so don't point at me. ... > > openSUSE is a Project that exists only because of its volunteer > contributions. Having individuals criticising and attempting to block > contributions needlessly is a toxic behaviour which dramatically > impedes the productivity of our project. So in this case, I still feel > Carlos was greatly in the wrong. I was also dreadfully concerned by > his prevalent 'us vs them' attitude, which I posted about > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2015-10/msg00131.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2015-10/msg00082.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2015-10/msg00051.html It is your doing. You can see it in this thread, too. > The whole sordid mess somewhat died down when people actually started > using Weblate to translate parts of Leap, but Carlos' mindset and > behaviour with that topic is important to keep in mind if you want to > understand the Board's collective decision making process. That's a matter of opinion. I see it as a some developers and staff destroying the work of translators. As proven. Leap is not translated. Is this open? You are shutting up by force those that dissent with you! You have proven it here. > > -- > > A separate long, ongoing issue with Carlos on the factory mailinglist > was what is now being described as the production of 'noise'. > opensuse-factory is by definition and design a 'working' mailinglist, > intended to productive discussions relevant to the development of the > openSUSE distributions. Noise (off topic posts or posts with little or > no content) ends up being junk which every developer has to sift > through in order to conduct their regular contributions to openSUSE. > Carlos has a well deserved reputation for being a huge source of such > noise. He would regularly post short responses like "Yup" "I agree" > and such - the kind of thing which might have a place in an > opensuse-chat mailinglist or perhaps even this opensuse@ support list, > but in a list where we're meant to be discussing the development of > our distributions, it was quite an annoyance. Also, even the more > substantial posts he did provide, often conveyed a very strong 'I'm > not a developer but you should do what I say' attitude..the kind of > 'us vs them' attitude which raised it's ugly head during the > translation issue. Factory list being a list for developers only list is a recent idea from you. And you have enforced it. Henne had to change the official definition very recently, a week or two ago. For decades factory mail list has the place where _users_ testing the Beta version talked. People asking such questions on the standard mail lists were told always to go away. This is a fact, which you can verify yourself. I posted one mail per issue because that's what the forum staff enforced. I thought that it would be a good idea on the mail list, too. It was never intended as any kind of agression, but as a method to make things easier for all. It is more difficult for me. A "me too" post is standard response in mail lists. It shows that more people see the issue, that it is not a single occurrence. > > In small doses, none of these issues would be worth mentioning, but > you have to consider that Carlos's prolific posting rate (one of the > reasons he clearly is so popular here) meant that he was single > handedly responsible for a huge percentage of the -factory mailinglist > traffic. An avowed non-developer, producing 10%+ of all the traffic on > the 800+ subscriber openSUSE development mailinglist is, no matter how > well meaning, a nuisance, especially when most of those posts are > easily classified as 'noise' and not helpful to the development of the > openSUSE distributions. That's your opinion. The factory mail list has always been subject to that traffic, from many people, during beta phases. > For example, Carlos regularly would post off topic, bug-report like > posts, such as http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00019.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00028.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00045.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00047.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00049.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00062.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00063.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00454.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00679.html See explanation above. > > And I'm sure there are more examples, I just don't want to spend hours > writing this mail. > > On multiple occasions Carlos was informed to file bugs in bugzilla, > where bugs are meant to be reported. > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00019.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00045.html but > the bug-like reports continued. As told to you often, this is done to ease jobs on bugzilla. First comment on issues, then report in bugzilla if it is a real issue. Or next, you will complain of noise in bugzila. > > In the end, the patience of other contributors started to fray, as > clearly visible in this post from Martin - > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00688.html > > Carlos responded in what, sadly, a typically argumentative way, > incorrectly declaring the purpose of the factory mailinglist (it is, > and will likely always be, the projects main development list) - > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00693.html False. This is true only now, because you have forced it this way. > At this point, Andrew Wafaa from the openSUSE Board provided Carlos > with a final warning, summarising the concerns we had regarding his > behaviour - http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00709.html > > He responded in an argumentative manner.. > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00723.html Because it was all false. Can I not defend myself? > > The thread bounced around a bit while people less aware of Carlos' > behaviour asked questions. This led to Jim's explanation from the > Forum admins team - > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00806.html and > Andrew from the Board - > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00745.html Web issues do not apply here. > > It also included posts much like this one from me (just a lot shorter) > citing more examples of behaviour which the Board considered - > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00776.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00781.html Proven false. > > I also tried again to reason with Carlos and better explain the scope > and scale of the Boards concerns - > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00877.html > > And despite a bit of back and forth discussion even after that point, > the end result was that everyone moved on, and Carlos continued > posting, and for a while everything actually seemed to be going well. > For the time immediately after the Boards final warning, I would > personally categorise Carlos' posts, manner, attitude, all being > dramatically improved, as if he had taken on board the feedback from > the Board. There was one or two posts which I felt might have walked > 'upto the line' of what is acceptable, but the line wasn't crossed, > and so I was quite pleased and hopeful. > > And then Carlos posted > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-11/msg00439.html which For this one I apologized. That's the only posts where I was out of line. A single post. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

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Re: [opensuse] The Post that got Carlos ER Banded !!
by Ruben Safir 26 Dec '15

26 Dec '15

On 12/26/2015 10:11 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote: > On 2015-12-26 11:08, Richard Brown wrote: >> > On 25 December 2015 at 23:24, Ruben Safir <> wrote: >>> >> On 12/25/2015 06:17 PM, Michal Hrusecky wrote: >>>> >>> What about not attacking people, behaving like an adult and not lying >>>> >>> and if you really want, than pickup the right mail? Constant spreading >>>> >>> of FUD across various mailing lists was one of the reasons for Carlos >>>> >>> ban. > Michael, I was never spreading FUD. In the worst case, that's a matter > of opinion, thus I was banned for expressing my opinions. Carlos, it is a waste of time to negotiation and discuss with individual whose moral compass is so feeble so to NOT see the OBVIOUS injustice they did. The question at this point should be, if we create a new mailing list for opensuse tech support, would you be willing to moderate the list and contribute as usual. If so, I think I can find a home for a new OpenSuSE tech support list. Ruben -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Fwd: Re: [opensuse] The Post that got Carlos ER Banded !!
by Ruben Safir 26 Dec '15

26 Dec '15

-------- Forwarded Message -------- >From the Vitim of this insane purge. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On 2015-12-26 11:08, Richard Brown wrote: > On 25 December 2015 at 23:24, Ruben Safir <> wrote: >> On 12/25/2015 06:17 PM, Michal Hrusecky wrote: >>> What about not attacking people, behaving like an adult and not lying >>> and if you really want, than pickup the right mail? Constant spreading >>> of FUD across various mailing lists was one of the reasons for Carlos >>> ban. Michael, I was never spreading FUD. In the worst case, that's a matter of opinion, thus I was banned for expressing my opinions. Like now, I can not defend myself from what I feel are public attacks by Richard and others. Perhaps someone can repost this to the mail list. >>> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-11/msg00439.html >>> >> >> in your sick mind you think that was worthy of a ban. >> >> Your nuts. >> >> Honestly. A ban is supposed to correct behaviour. Well, as I have never understood what I did wrong, I can not correct my behaviour. And three months is excesive. > > Honestly, conducting yourself in accordance with our guiding > principles ( https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Guiding_principles ) > would be a lot productive. Please calm down, review the link, and lets > discuss anything which needs to be discussed in a respectful, adult, > way, please? The guiding principles only apply to Members. Not to other users or contributors. Because members have accepted them voluntarily. Imposing the code on others is an imposition. > As both I and now Michal have explained, there was not one post or > incident that triggered Carlos' ban > > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-11/msg00439.html was > the final straw after a long string of issues on the -project, > -factory, and -translation mailinglists I apologized for that single post. The rest are false accusations. > I'll try to tackle this chronologically, but as this was a long drawn > out affair I apologise in advance with anything I get muddled > > I think the first incident of relevance to this topic is the fact that > Carlos was banned from forums.opensuse.org for repeatedly instigating > & participating in unproductive discussions and arguments, including > arguments with the admin staff of the forums. I do not have links to > share on that as I was not personally a witness, but one of our admins > posted about it here (in a thread which I will refer to more later): > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00806.html About the web forum. Many people liked me (they have a method to quantify that). I posted something like 20000 posts, although the counter there says now something like 16. Only the web staff, and perhaps a few others, thought differently. About arguing with moderators: due to my mode of access (nntp) I can not distinguish who is a moderator, and even less, when he is acting as moderator, and not as another user. After the forum ban, I decided that it was impossible to interact with the forum without angering the staff somehow (impossible to me), and I decided not to come back, and return to more tolerant waters. That I thought. > -- > > One major incident (that included a number of examples which > contributed to the ban) was the situation with translations > > This story is long and complicated, so for the sake of clarity and in > the hope of putting this topic to bed I will do my best to summarise > it here > > With the increased focused on Tumbleweed, and the fundamental changes > to how Leap was being put together, it was clear that the previous > tools, processes, and methods of our translation teams were no longer > up to the job > > Or, to put it another way, Tumbleweed and Leap wasn't being translated > at all. Carlos actually did a very good job of raising this concern > some weeks before - > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-09/msg00777.html > > Some years ago, there was an effort by a number of contributors to > implement 'Weblate' as a translation tool for openSUSE. It had some > support from some translators, and significant support from developers > across the project (as it was better aligned with the tooling and > processes they were using, eg. git - therefore making it easier for > them to contribute also). However there was vocal objection to it from > some of our existing translators, including Carlos Rather from the majority of the translators. Have a look at this post, from another person, it explains very well the issues: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2015-10/msg00057.html ie, it was not me attacking fellow contributors, as you say in my ban order. It was other contributors attacking translators, and that is fine. We are lesser contributors. We "don't do it"- > With both Tumbleweed and Leap translations paralysed by a lack of > translations, a number of contributors took it upon themselves to > implement Weblate and, as a proof of concept, went ahead and relocated > some of the files requiring translation to Weblate The non translation of TW is intentional. Many translators consider it impossible to do, no matter what technical means are provided. Translators typically prefer to translate only the stable releases, not the betas. The problem with Leap is lack of resources on some key positions. Not a translator problem/issue. And many of those files moved to weblate are still untranslated for Leap. Have a look at the Spanish release notes - and there are about half a dozen translators, so don't point at me. ... > > openSUSE is a Project that exists only because of its volunteer > contributions. Having individuals criticising and attempting to block > contributions needlessly is a toxic behaviour which dramatically > impedes the productivity of our project. So in this case, I still feel > Carlos was greatly in the wrong. I was also dreadfully concerned by > his prevalent 'us vs them' attitude, which I posted about > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2015-10/msg00131.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2015-10/msg00082.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2015-10/msg00051.html It is your doing. You can see it in this thread, too. > The whole sordid mess somewhat died down when people actually started > using Weblate to translate parts of Leap, but Carlos' mindset and > behaviour with that topic is important to keep in mind if you want to > understand the Board's collective decision making process. That's a matter of opinion. I see it as a some developers and staff destroying the work of translators. As proven. Leap is not translated. Is this open? You are shutting up by force those that dissent with you! You have proven it here. > > -- > > A separate long, ongoing issue with Carlos on the factory mailinglist > was what is now being described as the production of 'noise'. > opensuse-factory is by definition and design a 'working' mailinglist, > intended to productive discussions relevant to the development of the > openSUSE distributions. Noise (off topic posts or posts with little or > no content) ends up being junk which every developer has to sift > through in order to conduct their regular contributions to openSUSE. > Carlos has a well deserved reputation for being a huge source of such > noise. He would regularly post short responses like "Yup" "I agree" > and such - the kind of thing which might have a place in an > opensuse-chat mailinglist or perhaps even this opensuse@ support list, > but in a list where we're meant to be discussing the development of > our distributions, it was quite an annoyance. Also, even the more > substantial posts he did provide, often conveyed a very strong 'I'm > not a developer but you should do what I say' attitude..the kind of > 'us vs them' attitude which raised it's ugly head during the > translation issue. Factory list being a list for developers only list is a recent idea from you. And you have enforced it. Henne had to change the official definition very recently, a week or two ago. For decades factory mail list has the place where _users_ testing the Beta version talked. People asking such questions on the standard mail lists were told always to go away. This is a fact, which you can verify yourself. I posted one mail per issue because that's what the forum staff enforced. I thought that it would be a good idea on the mail list, too. It was never intended as any kind of agression, but as a method to make things easier for all. It is more difficult for me. A "me too" post is standard response in mail lists. It shows that more people see the issue, that it is not a single occurrence. > > In small doses, none of these issues would be worth mentioning, but > you have to consider that Carlos's prolific posting rate (one of the > reasons he clearly is so popular here) meant that he was single > handedly responsible for a huge percentage of the -factory mailinglist > traffic. An avowed non-developer, producing 10%+ of all the traffic on > the 800+ subscriber openSUSE development mailinglist is, no matter how > well meaning, a nuisance, especially when most of those posts are > easily classified as 'noise' and not helpful to the development of the > openSUSE distributions. That's your opinion. The factory mail list has always been subject to that traffic, from many people, during beta phases. > For example, Carlos regularly would post off topic, bug-report like > posts, such as http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00019.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00028.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00045.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00047.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00049.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00062.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00063.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00454.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00679.html See explanation above. > > And I'm sure there are more examples, I just don't want to spend hours > writing this mail. > > On multiple occasions Carlos was informed to file bugs in bugzilla, > where bugs are meant to be reported. > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00019.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00045.html but > the bug-like reports continued. As told to you often, this is done to ease jobs on bugzilla. First comment on issues, then report in bugzilla if it is a real issue. Or next, you will complain of noise in bugzila. > > In the end, the patience of other contributors started to fray, as > clearly visible in this post from Martin - > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00688.html > > Carlos responded in what, sadly, a typically argumentative way, > incorrectly declaring the purpose of the factory mailinglist (it is, > and will likely always be, the projects main development list) - > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00693.html False. This is true only now, because you have forced it this way. > At this point, Andrew Wafaa from the openSUSE Board provided Carlos > with a final warning, summarising the concerns we had regarding his > behaviour - http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00709.html > > He responded in an argumentative manner.. > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00723.html Because it was all false. Can I not defend myself? > > The thread bounced around a bit while people less aware of Carlos' > behaviour asked questions. This led to Jim's explanation from the > Forum admins team - > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00806.html and > Andrew from the Board - > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00745.html Web issues do not apply here. > > It also included posts much like this one from me (just a lot shorter) > citing more examples of behaviour which the Board considered - > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00776.html > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00781.html Proven false. > > I also tried again to reason with Carlos and better explain the scope > and scale of the Boards concerns - > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-10/msg00877.html > > And despite a bit of back and forth discussion even after that point, > the end result was that everyone moved on, and Carlos continued > posting, and for a while everything actually seemed to be going well. > For the time immediately after the Boards final warning, I would > personally categorise Carlos' posts, manner, attitude, all being > dramatically improved, as if he had taken on board the feedback from > the Board. There was one or two posts which I felt might have walked > 'upto the line' of what is acceptable, but the line wasn't crossed, > and so I was quite pleased and hopeful. > > And then Carlos posted > http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-11/msg00439.html which For this one I apologized. That's the only posts where I was out of line. A single post. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

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[opensuse] what is the technical difference of konqueror vs all other browsers when reproducing mp3 following java script?
by stakanov＠freenet.de 26 Dec '15

26 Dec '15

All pages calling for mp3 reproduction via javascript on my 13.2 doe not work at all (FF/chromium/Seamonkey). But Konqueror is reproducing well, (after reinstalling the gstreamer package and all codec). What is the difference between the way konqueror handles it. I would like to repair my sound output. But so far I do not understand where the problem lies. If you have any hint to point me to a solution I will be grateful. --- Alle Postfächer an einem Ort. Jetzt wechseln und E-Mail-Adresse mitnehmen! http://email.freenet.de/basic/Informationen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

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