March 2016 - openSUSE Users - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse] leap install messed up mint
by Dave Howorth 03 Apr '16

03 Apr '16

I had Mint installed on a machine, which also has W10, and it was all working fine. I installed Leap and that is working fine. When I reboot I get taken to openSUSE's boot menu, which is fine, and it reboots either Leap or W10 fine, but if I select the line for Mint it says error: vmlinuz.... has invalid signature. error: you need to load the kernel first. The machine has UEFI and is in secure mode and Mint was booting just fine using its own (well, Ubuntu's) grub so presumably has a good signature, so I'm currently thinking of this as an openSUSE problem. Anybody got any ideas? Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

9 50

[opensuse] gparted, btrfs, and xfs
by Tom Kacvinsky 01 Apr '16

01 Apr '16

I made the fundamental mistake of not giving enough space to the / partition, and now I find I cannot install further updates because I am out of disk space. gparted was recommended to me, and I have taken the live ISO and “burned” it onto a USB memory stick. I’m having problems booting my laptop with it (endless cycle of “rebooting in 30s”), but I think I can get around that with the latest pre-release of the ISO. In any case, what I would like to do is think /home (on an XFS partition) and use the extra space to grow the / file systems (btrfs). IS this even possible. I did not find any documentation on who to do this, but that’s probably because my search terms were not refined enough. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, TomN��r��y隊Z)z{.�ﮞ˛��m�)z{.��+�:�{Zr�az�'z��j)h��Ǿ� ޮ�^�ˬz��

15 100

[opensuse] [opensuse-factory] Conflicts to update R-core-libs
by Edwin Aponte 01 Apr '16

01 Apr '16

Hi, When I try to update R-core-libs on openSUSE TW, zypper finds the following conflicts: Checking for file conflicts: ...............................................................................................................................................................................[error] Detected 3 file conflicts: File /usr/lib64/R/lib/libR.so from install of R-core-libs-3.2.4.1-33.6.x86_64 (R core components, supplements (like rkward), and CRAN packages (openSUSE_Tumbleweed)) conflicts with file from package R-base-libs-3.2.3-1.3.x86_64 (@System) File /usr/lib64/R/lib/libRblas.so from install of R-core-libs-3.2.4.1-33.6.x86_64 (R core components, supplements (like rkward), and CRAN packages (openSUSE_Tumbleweed)) conflicts with file from package R-base-libs-3.2.3-1.3.x86_64 (@System) File /usr/lib64/R/lib/libRlapack.so from install of R-core-libs-3.2.4.1-33.6.x86_64 (R core components, supplements (like rkward), and CRAN packages (openSUSE_Tumbleweed)) conflicts with file from package R-base-libs-3.2.3-1.3.x86_64 (@System) ============ So these are basically conflicts between the updated package and the installed package. I am able to continue the update but this should not be regarded as conflict. I am able to update other packages without conflict. Could this be due to some misconfiguration on my system or a packaging error? Thanks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

4 4

[opensuse] My huawei ascend y221 only seen as mass storage after win xp in vbox has seen it.
by Dave Plater 01 Apr '16

01 Apr '16

Hi, I'm running Leap:42.1 Kde plasma5 and the device notifier only picks up my phone as mass storage after I've enabled and disabled the phone in a vbox win xp on my computer. If I connect as an mtp(media) device or a ptp(camera) it works fine. Here's a journalctl output when I go through this process : > Connect phone and select "turn on usb storage" on the phone. > > Mar 29 15:05:20 arbuthnot kernel: usb 2-1.3: new high-speed USB device number 7 using ehci-pci > Mar 29 15:05:21 arbuthnot kernel: usb 2-1.3: New USB device found, idVendor=12d1, idProduct=2350 > Mar 29 15:05:21 arbuthnot kernel: usb 2-1.3: New USB device strings: Mfr=2, Product=3, SerialNumber=4 > Mar 29 15:05:21 arbuthnot kernel: usb 2-1.3: Product: HUAWEI Y221 PHONE > Mar 29 15:05:21 arbuthnot kernel: usb 2-1.3: Manufacturer: MediaTek > Mar 29 15:05:21 arbuthnot kernel: usb 2-1.3: SerialNumber: RGTKVSZST46TIVWK > Mar 29 15:05:21 arbuthnot kernel: usb-storage 2-1.3:1.0: USB Mass Storage device detected > Mar 29 15:05:21 arbuthnot kernel: scsi host13: usb-storage 2-1.3:1.0 > Mar 29 15:05:21 arbuthnot mtp-probe[5665]: checking bus 2, device 7: "/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.0/usb2/2-1/2-1.3" > Mar 29 15:05:21 arbuthnot mtp-probe[5665]: bus: 2, device: 7 was not an MTP device > Mar 29 15:05:21 arbuthnot usb_modeswitch[5689]: switch device 12d1:2350 on 002/007 > > Phone doesn't show in kde device notifier > Start vbox win xp and connect then disconnect phone in vbox > > Mar 29 15:06:33 arbuthnot kernel: vboxdrv: ffffffffa08c0020 VMMR0.r0 > Mar 29 15:06:33 arbuthnot kernel: vboxdrv: ffffffffa09ba020 VBoxDDR0.r0 > Mar 29 15:06:34 arbuthnot kernel: vboxdrv: ffffffffa0015020 VBoxDD2R0.r0 > Mar 29 15:06:34 arbuthnot kernel: vboxdrv: ffffffffa0029020 VBoxEhciR0.r0 > > On disconnecting the phone in vbox xp the phone is picked up and appears in device notifier. > sdg1 is the sd card and sdh is the phone > > > Mar 29 15:07:34 arbuthnot kernel: usb 2-1.3: reset high-speed USB device number 7 using ehci-pci > Mar 29 15:07:34 arbuthnot kernel: usb-storage 2-1.3:1.0: USB Mass Storage device detected > Mar 29 15:07:34 arbuthnot kernel: scsi host14: usb-storage 2-1.3:1.0 > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: scsi 14:0:0:0: Direct-Access Linux File-CD Gadget 0000 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: sd 14:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg8 type 0 > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: scsi 14:0:0:1: Direct-Access Linux File-CD Gadget 0000 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: sd 14:0:0:1: Attached scsi generic sg9 type 0 > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: sd 14:0:0:0: [sdg] 7747584 512-byte logical blocks: (3.96 GB/3.69 GiB) > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: sd 14:0:0:0: [sdg] Write Protect is off > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: sd 14:0:0:0: [sdg] Mode Sense: 0f 00 00 00 > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: sd 14:0:0:1: [sdh] 2235904 512-byte logical blocks: (1.14 GB/1.06 GiB) > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: sd 14:0:0:0: [sdg] Write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: sd 14:0:0:1: [sdh] Write Protect is off > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: sd 14:0:0:1: [sdh] Mode Sense: 0f 00 00 00 > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: sd 14:0:0:1: [sdh] Write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: sdg: sdg1 > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: sdh: > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: sd 14:0:0:0: [sdg] Attached SCSI removable disk > Mar 29 15:07:35 arbuthnot kernel: sd 14:0:0:1: [sdh] Attached SCSI removable disk > Mar 29 15:07:48 arbuthnot kernel: FAT-fs (sdg1): Volume was not properly unmounted. Some data may be corrupt. Please run fsck. > Mar 29 15:07:48 arbuthnot org.gtk.Private.UDisks2VolumeMonitor[1752]: disc.c:332: error opening file BDMV/index.bdmv > Mar 29 15:07:48 arbuthnot org.gtk.Private.UDisks2VolumeMonitor[1752]: disc.c:332: error opening file BDMV/BACKUP/index.bdmv > Mar 29 15:07:48 arbuthnot udisksd[1815]: Mounted /dev/sdg1 at /run/media/davepl/2A86-17E6 on behalf of uid 1000 > Mar 29 15:07:51 arbuthnot kernel: FAT-fs (sdh): Volume was not properly unmounted. Some data may be corrupt. Please run fsck. > Mar 29 15:07:51 arbuthnot udisksd[1815]: Mounted /dev/sdh at /run/media/davepl/B4E0-0FE0 on behalf of uid 1000 > Mar 29 15:07:51 arbuthnot org.gtk.Private.UDisks2VolumeMonitor[1752]: disc.c:332: error opening file BDMV/index.bdmv > Mar 29 15:07:51 arbuthnot org.gtk.Private.UDisks2VolumeMonitor[1752]: disc.c:332: error opening file BDMV/BACKUP/index.bdmv Can anyone shed any light on this problem? Thanks Dave P. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

5 12

[opensuse] suse/open suse maintainers for Ring
by Nicolas Jäger 31 Mar '16

31 Mar '16

Hi, My name is Nicolas Jager, I'm working on the Ring project (https://ring.cx/) at Savoir Faire Linux. Ring is a secure and distributed voice, video and chat communication platform that requires no centralized server and leaves the power of privacy in the hands of the user. We want to make ring much more visible to all linux users. We are currently trying to find maintainers who can, and want, to make ring available to the official repository of suse/open suse. If you are interested, I would be happy to answer any of your questions. regards, Nicolas Jager -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

3 2

[opensuse] disappearing KDE start menu
by John Young 31 Mar '16

31 Mar '16

I have an odd KDE problem. I am running openSUSE Leap 42.1 with KDE and, on my main desktop, when I click on the start menu to run a new application, the menu flashes briefly and then disappears. If I switch to the second desktop, the start menu works fine. There has to be something hosed with my settings somewhere, but I'm not sure where it is. Has anyone seen this? Any ideas where to look? -- 'All ideas and opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author alone and do not necessarily reflect the ideas and opinions of anyone else.' -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

1 0

[opensuse] ancient hardware strikes again ...
by Per Jessen 31 Mar '16

31 Mar '16

<frustration vent> You might remember my postings about my new Zotac Nano CI323 and how I couldn't get it to play HDTV from mythtv. It's quad-core 1.6GHz celeron wasn't fast enough for the preferred software decoder setup, but getting video acceleration to work wasn't going anywhere. It looks like it _could_ work, but I'm still seeing e.g.: [drm:intel_cpu_fifo_underrun_irq_handler [i915]] *ERROR* CPU pipe C FIFO underrun All of this playing the video acceleration made me wonder if my current mythtv frontend box might just benefit from it. Et voila! a single change in the setup, and my ancient IBM Thinkcentre M52 now plays HDTV. Its single Celeron and 1Gb of memory is pretty much maxed out, and it is getting a little noisy, but it works. For sale: new Zotac Nano CI323 with 4Gb memory, in original packaging. 4K Ultra HD capable ... </frustration vent> -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.3°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

3 5

Re: Fwd: Re: [opensuse] Where Is Wayland?
by Xen 30 Mar '16

30 Mar '16

Per Jessen schreef op 30-03-16 11:25: > Xen wrote: > >> People are not talking about the server world and about Android. And >> all you have to say about the desktop is "and we have multiple desktop >> environments to choose from". That is not the hallmark of success. >> That is the hallmark of poverty, because the only thing you can attest >> to is a bit of choice, but not any form of quality. If there were, you >> would have mentioned it. > That I've been able to use Linux+KDE for running my business for ten > years or more is somewhat of a testament to the quality, I think. I do > think quality has suffered with recent KDE releases, but KDE3 is great. Per, you do realize that if your case in mind is not representative of at least some or perhaps a great many users, that giving a counter example doesn't suddenly obviate or "undo" the example that the other has given right? When I say I like apples, and you say you like oranges, that doesn't suddenly mean that I no longer like apples. Also when I say "I like apples because they grow in the Netherlands" and you say "well, I live in Germany and I have an orange tree grove in an enclosed dome" that doesn't suddenly take away from the fact that ordinarily apples grow much better in our climate than oranges do. Your counter example doesn't take away from my example, and especially so if your case is rather nich-y or pertaining only to a small number of users, that doesn't suddenly mean that what I was saying was wrong, or is wrong, you know? And any single one user is going to be an example of that user or those type of people existing. I did not say, and I did not ever say, that your type of person does not exist. But you seem to be trying to convince me that my type of person doesn't exist, by using your type of person as a counter example immediately against my type of person. >> "Today you have little reason for staying with Windows if you don't >> want or have to." >> >> That's what you think. That's not what the world agrees on. > Actually, that is what I know for a fact. But as I also added - "There > are exceptions, but they are few and far between. (I'm ignoring > games).". So you are saying that I am an exception right. I have big reasons to not use LibreOffice to begin with. Then you say (or might say) "there is no reason not to use it". Well, according to you, but you are not representative of the crowd. You are representative of a very small number of people, and that is what Linux advocates usually don't understand -- that they don't understand the ordinary person. I am seeing it here again today, with you. You are explaining your appraisal of the situation as fact. You think you know for a fact, and that it is a fact, that for most people (the "you" you mention) there is no reason to stay with Windows 'if you don't want or have to'. Obviously wanting to stay with Windows is going to be based on reasons. So you have an escape hatch right there. I can be wanting to stay with Windows because it is pretty, but according to you I would still not really have a reason to. But wanting IS a reason and it is COMPRISED of reasons. I want to stay with Windows (or often choose to use Windows) because of various reasons, that I stated. - pretty - easy - everything works without much ado (except for current day problems that didn't exist in Windows 7) - all games work - all programs work - there is a binary compatibility that has lasted for at least 15 years now - I can still use any software I want from the days of yore. Yes, these are REASONS. You say they are not there. Well, they are there. I can go on: - I prefer individually installable files instead of package systems - I prefer individually updated programs (actually I usually detest updates) instead of programs updated by a package system. Yes this is what I want. Do you think reasons exist that do not coincide with what people want? What your statement comes down to is the following: "There is no reason to stay with Windows if you have no reason to stay with Windows". That is pretty much of a DUH statement and it is meaningless. That does not take away from the fact that there ARE (or can be) reasons to stay with Windows if you DO have them. That idea of universally objective reasons pertaining to all people equally, that you have, is not true. There can be many reasons for staying with Windows and people have them as well, based on what they want and need, yes. I'm not saying you have to. I am saying there are reasons, depending on who you are, and what your situation is, for making that choice. On many an occasion for many users. Probably so. Life teaches you that this is true, most likely and most probably, if you look at the evidence (mostly statistics and opinions being shared everywhere). > To any ordinary home or office user, the Linux desktop and the plethora > of applications is more than plenty. Sure, some proprietary > applications are not available for Linux (Acrobat Reader, iTunes come > to mind), if those are critical to you, you obviously can't choose > Linux. I guess I should just explain my appraisal of this infliction. Since in general Linux people, or people who use Linux a lot, are okay with an ugly and hideous system, it is also very likely that they don't care a lot about creating or crafting beautiful products either. Then this affliction will lead them to assume that there is not actually any reason to create anything beautiful or attractive. This is what I called "visual poverty". Then, this leads me to assume that you are one of those people that does not put a high standard onto himself for visually appealing productions or creative works. Furthermore, this leads me to contend that you are probably okay with shabby applications like LibreOffice and GIMP, since creating anything truly beautiful with it is hardly possible. This also leads me to assume that you have a rather estranged view of the ordinary home or office user. Personally I deal with and interact with youngsters who use smartphone apps. I can tell you that not one of them would really Like Linux. These kiddos use a number of simple apps to create beautiful things without any effort. There are features that are available to any smartphone user that you will never find on any Linux distro or desktop. They embellish pictures like there is no end to it. For me, doing something similar in GIMP is just downright impossible. Even the average commercial websites is 20 orders of magnitude more attractive than your average desktop application in KDE or Gnome. Recently there was some initiative that was announced on kde.org. It linked to some kind of spammy promotional thing on the web that looked reasonably good. But it linked through to a very very very ugly and ill-designed wiki. That is not attractive to anyone, anyone, ANYONE outside of the Linux domain itself. Acrobat, iTunes, Photoshop, CorelDraw, Cubase, InDesign, Premiere, there are just MANY MANY productivity suites that don't work or exist on Linux. You want to compare that to the meagre offering supplied only and pretty much only by LibreOffice? That if you don't have any special needs, or don't need to do anything really outstanding, that you can be okay with LibreOffice? Really? Each of these apps I look up on the Google web, there will be only hits about "alternative". "Cubase alternative". "Premiere alternative". Those apps don't exist, and not anything like it either. People make their livelihoods creating those programs. There is no livelihood to be made doing that for Linux. How can you ever ever consider that anything done by a small team of volunteers will be even remotely up to par with an offering used by millions of professionals on a daily basis? You're saying "If you don't need any of that, you can come to Linux". But there is more of course. Linux is just much harder to use, and I have been using it since about 1997. If I were to go out there among regular people, and visit offices, or schools, it would not be hard to find scores and scores of people who agree with me. A regular user prefers and favours Windows (or OS X). STRONGLY. Some years ago in my student's association (sorority, you could say) the computer team decided to turn all computers into Linux. They had to revert it because the members were not happy at all. That situation hasn't really changed, maybe it has changed 5% in favour of Linux these days. But not by much. REAL PEOPLE DISAGREE. You can go up with your theoretical assertions or non-sequitors all you want, but if you ask a real person, he will say what I'm saying (if she even knows about Linux to begin with). >> It is not what I think. The only reason I came to Linux today is >> because of Calligra. >> >> Yes at this moment I have Kubuntu 16.04 installed here as the only OS. >> >> Things I have lost: >> - pretty environment >> - ability to play some games >> - usually no worries about permissions with whatever I do in my own >> system - superior ability to encrypt using TrueCrypt >> - overall comfort in being able to do whatever I want >> - some favourite tools (Irfanview) >> - problem free existence with regards to the common operation of the >> OS > Let me try to think of what I "lost" when I switched to a Linux-only > environment, back in 2005 or 2006 - > > - the Windows environment > - BSOD > - my favourite email client > - games > - daily frustration > - Microsoft Office (which caused much of the above) Sure you can counterpose what you think immediately with what I have said, but that was not the point of this thread, was it? Of the 6 things you mention, the only real thing seems to be Microsoft Office, which you may have hated. I can't say I have ever liked it myself. Losing the Windows environment is pretty obvious. What have you lost by stopping to grow apples? Growing apples. The average amount of BSODs I have had per year in my home systems must have been about 1. Not saying you couldn't have had them. But unless your hardware is faulty, this thing must be grossly overrated. I don't think I have ever ever had a BSOD on this system in either Windows 7 or Windows 8. I have one laptop which may have bad hardware that caused BSODs --- an earlier examplar of the same type never had them. I mean, you could qualify that Windows environment and what is not likeable about it. You could. But you didn't. So you're saying you didn't lose much (good things) for you, but it doesn't sound like you used anything special or useful? You make it sound like you lost living in a culture where you never felt at home to begin with. Like, you are a foreigner in India and you hate the country and you don't know anyone there. And then you leave the country, and ask "what have I lost?" Well obviously, not much. But this is not the general appraisal or perception or feeling of the average Windows user (or Mac user). See, the whole point of the statement you make is that you feel that I don't actually need those things (I say I need). You feel that I am overrating my needs, and that I might do just as well with lesser applications. You are actually not only speaking of the average person, you are also directly speaking of me when you say "There is no need to stay in Windows". You are basically saying that my needs as a person can be met by Linux. And you're wrong. At least, not completely, and not for the most part, and currently, not at all times. I think I have a better idea of what my needs are than you, okay? And anything about Linux really proves it. I can go on into infite detail if I'd have to. But that list that was posted by SDM was remarkably clear about it (http://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.curre…). > I no longer play that many games, but on Linux it's things like > Transport Tycoon on Master of Magic (the latter in dosemu). > Occasionally Kpatience when I'm waiting for a database to load. Well okay that is fine but maybe you have just accepted that you cannot anyway. That doesn't mean you wouldn't want to if the situation was different. I just spent countless hours trying and debugging Guild Wars 2 in PlayOnLinux/wine. My performance is too rotten to actually play the game, but I was just interested in seeing how well it would run. There were two huge errors and I now have them mostly solved, although the game does crash after a while (but only after a while) and it may be related to using the 32-bit version now, not sure. It can feel like an acceptance of "I would wish I could, but I just can't". And then you forget about it. But not because you really have no taste for it. At least not for me. I consider it a sad thing. As well.... you might start doing it again the moment it became available again. Yes, perhaps even you yourself as well. Perhaps you too. Sometimes we don't even know how great something is unless we have access to it, and can experience it. Lack of context makes everything seem true. But the moment we have the real experience we actually crave, we know it wasn't so. Lots of people content themselves with a mediocre life. One of the five biggest regrets of old people right before they die, is having settled for a mediocre life by not expressing their true feelings. One of the other four regrets is having pretended to be happy, when they were not. It's a book, see here: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-five-regrets-of-the… I'm saying you can start to believe anything if you don't have any experiences from outside your frame of reference. With a lack of some outside perspective, you can't really know who you are. Jung wrote about his visit to the Pueblo indians in New Mexico: "We always require an outside point to stand on, in order to apply the lever of criticism." I'm sorry, I used to have this text on my hard drive, but some ...people stole it from my house and now I have to take it from the internet, and I don't like it. I'm just saying that if you are entrenched in Linux, you may lose awareness of what it was like being outside of Linux. > TBH, it's been a long time since I've wondered about the advantages, > it's a non-topic for me. Like I said earlier, I don't think there's > much point in comparing. That sounds like being depleted. >> - Dolphin kept crashing when I opened its settings, and when it did >> open, the settings I needed were no longer there, but are now KDE wide >> apparently -- or at least located there, which I had to find out by >> way of IRC >> - it is easier to use IRC on Linux >> - it took me at least 20 minutes to get my sound working >> - the operating system doesn't play any sounds when you log in or >> exit, which is disconcerting to me and makes me feel alienated and >> isolated - I have spent at least a day setting this system up and it >> will take much longer >> - Linux in general requires much more investment in getting the system >> you want. Investing seems to be what you do on Linux. > Well, that is one major advantage of Linux over Windows - with Linux you > _can_ have "the system you want". With Windows and MacOS, you get "the > system we want you to have". Microsoft has never really had a mindset of forcing stuff upon users if that stuff was not really what users wanted. I can say Apple has that mindset. I can say Microsoft has attained that mindset with Windows 8 and beyond. Microsoft has started doing things that users clearly don't want, apparently because it wants to enforce a new model of software. And a new way to gain revenue. I think it is the moral and even social bankrupt of Microsoft in that sense, but it is also rather clear they are struggling to stay relevant. Sure they have been hated on and employed nasty business practices, but their software in general was not at odds with what people actually wanted from it. If the system of Windows is already what I want, because I agree with it or it agrees with me, then there is obviously no way for me to improve on that by going elsewhere (which would be to go away from myself). You know, actually producing something that your users will like, IS a real possibility. If I write a song and people like it, those people don't have to write that song themselves. And in general if it is impossible in Linux to get the system you want (which is true for me) then no, you can NOT have the system you want in Linux. Because it requires too much stuff to be changed. Linux may be diverse but at the same time it is all the same thing. Every type of Linux is still linux. And if the choices presented to you do not cut it (and there is actually not really a great dimension to it) then no, you cannot have the system you want because all of it is the same thing. I am a tinkerer. I have not really achieved the system I want at all. For one, I cannot change the applications just like that. Any person in this world that wants to use anything even moderately complex, will have to be depending on other people also wanting that same thing, and because of that, already having made it, or be wanting to make it. Microsoft did not have a superior attitude about software. They didn't need to, because their software was already the most popular. They had a very down to earth attitude: it needs to work for the customer. Linux people do not have that attitude at all, not by a close margin. So Linux is filled with people who do not make what the user or the customer wants. And if you have 1000 people not making what the customer wants, those 1000 people will all create something slightly different and the customer will still not be served. And if you have a million people doing that, the customer will STILL not have been served. You have to look at the customer and take serious what he says he needs. But your position in this thread now is precisely that you shouldn't take the user seriously. Your position has been that you shouldn't listen to him or her. Your position has been that you are in a better position to judge his or her needs, and this attitude defeats you. And it defeats Linux, in that sense. That is not a customer-oriented attitude. That is a creator-oriented attitude that says "I know better what the customer wants, than the customer knows himself". There can be good and bad parts to that. But it is no coincidence that this is really Apple's attitude as well. And Apple IS arrogant. But in a general sense, not nearly as arrogant as Linux developers completely disregarding the wishes of their users. https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/ " OK, so devs don’t care anymore about users, even in KDE." Just a single silly quote from that long article of quotes. If no one cares about the end user, no one will make what the end user wants. Not even if there are a billion of them. However, even a SINGLE person listening to what the user wants, can MAKE what that user wants. That's the magic of it. Linux's "choice" is useless if you can only choose between unsatisfying options. And Microsoft did listen to users because users paid their bills. It is what happens in a normal capitalist situation. It's normally what the market does if the actual users are also paying customers. It's the beauty of a free market, in that sense. You get what you want, because you are paying for it. So there is not really, or there does not have to be, a difference between "what we want you to have" and "what I want". If "what I want to create for you" and "what I want to have" is the same thing (AND IT CAN VERY WELL BE) then the whole imagined conflict resolves itself. Just because someone else made that choice doesn't mean it is bad for me. Depending on what reason they had for it (and making money is a good reason). (Selling stuff is a good reason). >> - The only reason samba (eventually) works better on Linux is because >> of a bug in Windows. >> (and I kinda like the places in Dolphin). [[ It is now possible in my >> KDE to "add a network folder" but it doesn't seem to add it anywhere >> persistent. I do not see it in my mounts. It is not possible to >> user-mount something in a user-tree, like you can (ostensibly) do in >> Windows without it asking for administrative rights ]]. >> >> But after you've set it up in fstab ---- not something you can expect >> an ordinary user to do ---- it is very pleasant and always available. > A truly ordinary user, my mum for instance, will need an admin person to > help with doing unordinary things in Windows and Linux both. The number of persons of providing that admin help is much greater on Windows, not just because of more users, but also because it is easier and the level of expertise in software and computing required, is much lower. You can be an admin in Windows with an IQ of 5 so to speak, but to be an admin in Linux you need an IQ of 10, so to speak. You catch my drift? Simply because "Browse network" "Choose domain" "View available computers" "Connect to the computer" "View the shares" "Right click the share" "Map network drive" is something that is just very easy to accomplish if you have the least amount of expertise in doing stuff, and with the least amount of tutorial, it really becomes children's work. I could tell my sister to do that and she would be able to do it easily and also understand what it meant. She would start crying if I told her to do the same thing in Linux. That "admin help" you mention would amount to nothing more than a short email or a short phone call. Doing the same in Linux would amount to a detailed and lengthy explanation. And needing me to go there to buy her chocolate and comfort her for making her do something this terrible. Been there, done that, you know. > I do all of my officework (every day, 8 to 18) on Linux. My typical > tools are: Firefox, Tbird, knode, gimp, libreoffice, console, okular, > vi, man, kaffeine, ssh, Dolphin/Konqueror, skanlite. My livingroom TV > client runs Linux, even the TV set runs Linux. My satellite receiver > system runs Linux, the office telephone system runs Linux. My outdoor > Xmas decorations are controlled by a Linux system. And these 30 minutes > right now is probably the most time I've spent talking/writing about it > in a very long time. Do you remember using IrfanView and how easy and extremely fast it is to do some common image operations in it? The mere idea of having to do it each time in GIMP saddens me and frightens me too. For example, Irfanview will automatically detect the real file from an image file and see if the extension might not be wrong, and offer to rename it. Irfanview has a very pleasant resize dialog. It has a very pleasant rotate dialog. And by far the most used feature for me is the ability to select and then immediately crop to that selection. First, GIMP takes much longer to start. Its various windows have always been annoying unless you take pains to put it on its own desktop. Now I'm in KDE and KSnapshot has not been bound yet to a shortcut. Now I can copy the screenshot I just made, and paste it into GIMP. But it is not clear what action I should use, either Paste or Paste as New Image, but both do the same thing in this case. Now I have to find the toolbox window that has become hidden somewhere, so I have to find it on the taskbar. Now I can select, and then look for the crop feature. Strangely enough, it is in the "image" menu and not in the "edit" menu even though cutting and cropping are really similar operations. But one changes the image, and the other changes the ...no that's not true. Cutting also changes the image. So the whole program doesn't make sense to me. And if I have to use this program for this regular task, my productivity is severly hindered. So, in general you do not mention any special or amazing tools. Would I be able to do all of my work using that toolset you mention? Absolutely not. Absolutely astoundingly not. Also, appliances running Linux is not at all the same thing as a desktop Linux PC. My router uses Linux. My NAS uses Linux. I do not consider that any form of an equivalent thing. >> Linux is a great waste of time for me if it doesn't amount to anything >> tangible. > Okay. Sounds like you ought to just give it up? When you don't have a > need. I mentioned that it does amount to something tangible for me. But really the reason I have it installed at this point is because Windows 8 had become so dysfunctional (this current installation) so fast that I couldn't even use it to enlarge my partition and upgrade to 10. And I got fed up and Installing Linux was easier. I would have done so anyway probably, I just wanted to perhaps test Windows 10 on this PC as well, I don't know. Right now I seem to be spending most or all of my time DISCUSSING LINUX which is what always happens the moment I use it. And if it's not that, I might be trying to improve it with bash scripts or whatever. Other than that I am still doing regular stuff like email and YouTube, but less so. In general the fun stuff begins to fade away the moment I enter a Linux environment. It is just not very stimulating to actually do something that is rich and sexy. Instead I look at this ugly screen and don't feel like doing anything. But I was not worried about my own choice. I'm not concerned about my own choice. I was only seeking for you people to understand it, or to understand the choices of real people. Instead of what you think their reasons are.... :-/. Today I am mostly in Linux due to my quest for writing apps and also currently conveniently because Windows 8 was getting corrupt big time. Other than that it is pleasant to be around some bash scripts now and again. There is also the benefit of being able to upload some stuff to Github or Bitbucket that I haven't come around to yet. Some things are easier to do in Linux or something you will easier start doing because the environment is more amenable to it. Things that are easier to do in Linux are: - command line work (as with Git) - command line work (as with shellscripting) - command line work (as with quickly editing various files) - installing lots of programs and games For some reason in Linux I try to install everything that I can. The more games I have available, for instance, the more likely I am to play any one of them when I feel like it. In Windows I don't really need that, it's easy enough. If I do need it, I can do it at a moment's notice. In Linux you need to do it ahead of time. - editing PHP files. For some reason I only ever edit PHP files using Vi from a shell. Apart from that, I really have to think what else. It basically comes down to development work. The type that you need a console for. There are no advantages really to the actual desktop environment. Apart maybe from being able to set up network resources in a better way (Dolphin places, fixed mounts points, etc.). >> Windows is bliss except for the current day problems. > Okay - it's your choice you know. Well, I am certainly not trying to > talk you into switching to Linux. It wasn't a choice. I was stating some facts. The choice to prefer Windows for many things is not a choice, it is a preference. >> So it is not about Windows vs. Linux for me. > Hmm, you might want to re-read what you've written here, to me it sounds > like it is _exactly_ about that for you. After all of what I've explained, you still think that. That's what it is for YOU. I care about the individual things I can benefit from. Not the entire whole of any one operating system. This is not some kind of disjunct, non-overlapping "choice" we have to make. Apart from the fact that you usually have to "collapse" your preferences into making a hard choice of which OS to install. But that is just the end result. That is not what I start out with. >> If it is not about programming (or system design) to ME there is >> little benefit to Linux for the average user. > But we're not comparing. Just make a choice. Why would I need to? And for whom? For you? You want me to be either in the Windows or in the Linux camp. It doesn't work that way. You still don't understand what it means to take from something what you like, and throw away the rest. I don't think you know what being eclectic means, for instance. That's more or about the exact word that describes it. It is the opposite of being religious about something. I do not have to choose anything for you. I will choose whatever I want, and I am already doing so. Just the fact that you are telling me to make a choice, makes it obvious you don't care about real practical choices. You want someone to make an ideological choice. >> And you can say that's not true but regular folk just don't become >> interested out of their own appraisal just like that. > I agree. Just like they don't become "interested" in Windows or Mac > either. They generally have a need to satisfy, that's all. Then > they'll go to Mediamarkt and buy themselves a computer. That's not true. That's again like saing that those needs are not real needs. Or that those wants are not real wants. As if wanting something and becoming interested in something are opposite concepts. This is called "reduction". You are trying to reduce actual wants and desires into something that doesn't mean anything other than some mechanical need. People DO become interested in a Mac. Usually they have no reason to become interested in Windows because it is all around. Same as you can become interested in either an iPhone or a Samsung. And this is not some cold, rational, economical need that you imply it is. You are describing it as something sterile. I am saying and telling you it can be very much an alive thing. A vivid thing. Actual love for something. You are trying to imply that it is devoid of love, that it is some sterile mechanical thing. They have some need, they meet it, but they don't care about it either way. No. People love their phones. And some people do become interested in Linux (usually Ubuntu). It happens. Out of their own, yes. Because they recognise it can help them fulfil that need, yes. It is the same as love. Because people recognise it can give them something, help them ahead on their life journey. It's a recognition. But most people are just content with Windows, that's just the way it is. That is not due to some evil marketing scheme. It is not due to people spreading lies about Linux. It is not even due to Linux not being exposed or visible enough. For the largest part it is simply because it holds no appeal. Conversely, if the situation was reversed. And Windows had 5% market share. It would probably not take more than 10 years for them to reach 50%, unless something else came about that in that void would have a chance to succeed. It would be a curious but rather terrible situation. I guess. >>>> Why are you trying to disrupt what he does, or rather, why are you >>>> trying to place doubt in it, why are you questioning his motives, >>>> why are you assuming bad motives here? >>> I'm doing neither, I just think measuring Linux against Windows >>> belongs in the past. >> And this is then reason to obstruct what he is trying to do by not >> helping but instead raising questions and criticism as to what he is >> doing. >> >> That's like saying "Hey, can I get a burger?" and then someone that >> sells the burgers says "Why do you even want a burger? I don't get it. >> Get something else." > To stick to your terminology - I don't sell burgers, I just eat them. > If you want a burger or discuss the ingredients, go to McDonalds :-) That's again like saying: I'm fine with what you want, as long as you don't want it in the planet I'm living in. And again, you're shoving someone off (in this language you just used). If you had any decency, you would listen to a person coming explicitly to you, instead of telling them to go somewhere else. >> If I am to use Linux, I will take everything I can from other sources >> to enhance it. >> If I am to use Windows, I will take everything I can from other >> sources to enhance it. >> If I am to use OS X, I will take everything I can from other sources >> to enhance it. > It seems to me that you only have a real chance with item#1 on that > list. That might be true. Although there is cygwin and gnuwin32, and no Windows user ever complains about that. It is clear changing Windows is a no-go, because it is their product. OS X can use Wine though. And, OS X has a terminal. Guild Wars 2 runs in OS X by way of some Wine derivative. You can use Bash in Windows but it doesn't work so well. The whole reason to incorporate stuff into Linux is because you can (and because it's needed) (Don't forget that). Any employee in Microsoft or Apple might advocate internally to steal stuff from Linux, though. So you know, the principle still stands. >> So I don't even agree that it would be off-topic. General Linux >> discussions in that sense are not off-topic here. Right? >> Agree? > Sure, to some extent. It's probably best to be constructive though, > otherwise it's just rambling, and that is better done on > opensuse-offtopic, I suggest. You wouldn't be a Linux user if you didn't tell me to go elsewhere, in conclusion. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

4 3

[opensuse] Where Is Wayland?
by sdm 30 Mar '16

30 Mar '16

KDE's Smart window placement always annoying me where it randomly scatters windows you open where it thinks you want it, which always it NOT where I want the window. IIRC X doesn't support remembering the positioning of where windows were after closing them, as does Microsoft Windows since probably what, Windows 95 or 98? I always set it to centered (Window Actions and Behavior > Advances) which works for the most part, but I'm assuming Wayland will solve most or all of these issues. But Wayland looks to be severely delayed; what is going on with that project and when can we expect it? I thought it was supposed to be shipping already a long time ago, but every time they say "it's coming" it never happens, and the current Wayland beta on openSUSE is a total disaster and barely runs on any GPU I've tried it on. The fact that Wayland barely works and X is a hodge-podge disaster based on code from 1983, just further prooves that Linux (and this includes openSUSE) on the desktop, when we're comparing graphics and GUI's, is behind Windows and has a LONG way to go until it's "feature complete" on on par with Windows. How much longer are we all going to have to wait, and by that time how much further ahead will Windows be? Don't be a fanboy, be a realist. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

10 47

[opensuse] who was saying openSUSE and microsoft where evil?
by jdd 30 Mar '16

30 Mar '16

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-and-canonical-partner-to-bring-ubunt… or may be this is some days too early? jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org

4 4