August 2008 - openSUSE Factory - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse-factory] factory to beta3 and other
by Putrycz, Erik 08 Oct '08

08 Oct '08

Is there a simple way to upgrade from factory to beta3 and in the future to the final release? I'm not sure I always will want to live in factory land. Erik. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] Yast improvment ide?
by Birger Kollstrand 24 Sep '08

24 Sep '08

Hi, I just want to air an idea regarding Yast. We are using SLES and openSUSE in the company as our main Linux offering.Yast is the keys to why we use those in stead of anything else. But it's no supprise that most of our newcommers have never used Linux before (We are a 90% SW company and still....) Yast is then a very good starting point for them. One thing that is an obstacle is that not all services that Yast can provide are easily visible and this is where my ide comes inn. would it be possible/nice etc. to have an extra tab in the Yast Controll Senter section that reads something like "Uninstalled servers and services". In this sectio would all uninstalled yast options be listed. I think this would greatly help newcommers to find their way around all the possibilities that are present. If there is anyone else who thinks this might be usefull, then I'll add it as an improvement suggestion. cu / birger.... Devoteam Telecom Norway AS --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] Contrib: Packages Review: "banner"
by Alexey Eremenko 14 Sep '08

14 Sep '08

Hi All, Next package, "banner" - ASCII Art text renderer Description: Banner fills an apparent hole in Linux - that is, that is does not provide a "banner" program itself, while nearly all UNIX systems seem to do so. Banner prints a "banner" on the screen that corresponds to the first 10 characters of a string entered on the command line, in a way similar to what you might see when using Solaris or AIX. There are fancier things out there, but this is nice and simple. This package is in OBS. Current maintainer: me (Alexey Eromenko "Technologov") URL http://www.cedar-solutions.com/software.html License: GPL Latest update: Wasn't updated for long time. Program is feature complete, and doesn't need updating. OBS URL: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/FenixNBK/openSUSE_11.0/ Testing: Package received testing from me 10.2/10.3/11.0 (32-bit) =============================================== What do you think of the package? -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] The KDE way for openSUSE 11.1
by Michael Loeffler 11 Sep '08

11 Sep '08

Hi, as discussed in a former project meeting we should discuss how we handle KDE in openSUSE 11.1. To avoid any misunderstanding we will offer on the DVD still KDE and Gnome. It just the question which or how many KDE's ;-) The proposal of the internal team (beineri, michl, cthiel, aj, klaas, mlasars, zonker) is trying to make KDE 4.1 as good as possible and maintain our reputation to offer the best integrated KDE. Top 3 reasons for that: - KDE 4.1 is ready for prime time - clear decision and move to the future - limited ressources KDE 4.1 is released and - no doubt - much better than 4.0. But there are still discussions that KDE 4.1 lacks some capabilities KDE 3.5.x had. If you have any issue with KDE 4.1 on openSUSE please report a bug to drive attention on it and patches are also welcome ;-) What can/should we do? a) Delivery of KDE 4.1 on media as our default KDE desktop, add some 3.5.x applications where necessary, older KDE through online repos Pros: - clear position and direction to the future - KDE 4.1 ready for the mayority of users - focus of efforts to KDE 4.1 Cons: - some users will lack certain features or habits b) We may add again both KDEs to the DVD Pros: we offer choice and may make everybody happy Cons: - space limitations on DVD may prevent this option - maintenance and integration of 2 KDE desktops needed which the internal KDE team hardly can accomplish - we're backing a desktop which anyway won't receive much attention from upstream anymore - confusion - which KDE should I choose Please bring up your opinion so that we're doing the right thing for openSUSE 11.1 Best M -- Michael Löffler, Product Management Email: michl(a)suse.de Phone: +49 911 74053-376 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] Zypper vs Yum: Lacking Features discussion
by Alexey Eremenko 08 Sep '08

08 Sep '08

Hi All, I would like to discuss a bit about zypper and yum, and perhaps, open feature-requests. Yum is old Red Hat's technology while zypper is new SUSE's thing :) More seriously: -I have heard that yum has ability to show the package changelog diff for pacakges to be updated, while zypper lacks it -yum shows the repository from which the package will be installed. (Very useful if you have many repos with duplicate packages.) What do you think ? Are those small annoyances touch you ? -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] wireless networks
by ¡ElCheVive! 06 Sep '08

06 Sep '08

Hi, Anyone knows if theres a problem with KNetworkManager or ifup in connecting to wireless networks with ESSIDs containing special characteres like º, ª, ã, and others? regards, Luiz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] opensuse-contrib mailing list
by Hans-Peter Holler 04 Sep '08

04 Sep '08

Hi subscribers of factory, what about establishing a separate $subject? These discussions might be interesting for hackers/maintainers/testers of packages like banner or putty which are of course needed for people not satisfied with factory/release. But seeing that on factory? Just my thoughts. Hans-Peter --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] Contrib: Packages Review: "putty"
by Alexey Eremenko 04 Sep '08

04 Sep '08

Hi All, Next package, "putty" - Graphical SSH/Telnet/Serial COM Client. Description: Cross-Platform Graphical SSH/Telnet/Serial COM Client. Exactly the tool Windows administrators need when migrating to Linux desktops. This package is in OBS. OBS URL: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/peternixon/openSUSE_11.0/ Current maintainer: Peter Nixon Here - we have 2 possibilities - We either need to find Peter Nixon somehow, -or- I will maintain the package (Alexey Eromenko "Technologov") URL http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html License: MIT Latest update: 2007. v0.60 NOTES: Latest putty is based on GTK1. Rumors say that there is a GTK2 version of putty in development. Testing: Package received some testing from me on 11.0 (32-bit) =============================================== What do you think of the package? -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] Contrib repository
by Pascal Bleser 02 Sep '08

02 Sep '08

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Sorry for breaking the thread, but it's on purpose: let's try to focus a bit on _one_ topic, the contrib repository (and please don't reply on minor points, we're discussing the big picture here.. one thing at a time :)). 1) Duplication and home:* is killing the cat^WOBS ================================================= To me, the biggest problem in the OBS (from an user's perspective) is that - - there are way too many home:* repositories with pointless duplication of existing packages (existing e.g. in other OBS repos, or in the Packman repo) - - home:* repositories with different goals and levels of quality: - -- some are just playgrounds to learn about packaging, - -- others are good quality and exist under "home:" because it's either - --- too tedious to get maintainer rights in one of the "real" OBS project (you might think it isn't, but people who contribute many packages in their free time can't just wait for a few hours to get access), or - --- we're lacking several "real" repositories (e.g. nowhere to put Jabber clients, command-line utilities, firewall tools, hardware related packages, ...) We _really_ have to move good packages from home:* repos into the "real" ones and have duplicates removed. 2) OBS: too many repos ====================== Clearly, the number of repositories _is_ a problem. Sorry for anyone denying this, but stuff is way too scattered into a multitude of repositories, and with every repository you add to any package manager, the likelihood of conflicts and other issues (e.g. running into package manager bugs) raises accordingly. 3) One big repository is rubbish ================================ The problem is that it is very complex to solve: having too many repositories (as of now) has a fair load of issues, at least for people who need/use many of them. But having few large repositories has its own share of drawbacks too: - - metadata is huge, takes too long to download just to upgrade a single package (Coolo mentioned that in a previous post) - - side-effects: here and then, you necessarily run into the need of providing newer "distro packages" (= packages included in openSUSE releases, or even in Factory); it's almost always a library that infects all packages that are built in that repository, hence barely giving users a chance of escaping that library package upgrade, even when not needed. Packman is a very good example of this situation (yes, some of us *are* aware of it, but it's very complex to solve and the tooling around RPM and repository metadata is extremely weak, to say the least), with the addition of two factors: - - we (=Packman) always provide the latest upstream versions of packages, which causes side-effects here and then, as described above - - we build+push both often and many packages, which causes very frequent repository metadata changes and, in turn, frequent large metadata downloads for users As said, it's very difficult to solve for Packman (and please don't tell me "just split the big repository", especially with the word "just"), but I'm explaining the above to make sure we try hard to avoid having that in the contrib repository. 4) Factory-staging is pointless =============================== Factory is Novell's kingdom. Period. Maybe that'll change in the future, but right now, Factory is where the upcoming openSUSE distros and the CODE11, CODE12, etc.. will spawn from. Adding more packages to Factory really doesn't make sense. Personally, I'd rather tend to think that the opposite is a much better idea: reduce Factory somewhat, if possible, and have more in online repositories. Note that having a stable contrib repository is clearly an enabling factor for being able to reduce Factory. Always keep in mind that packages in Factory are _very_ different from packages in any other repository, because it means that - - there _must_ be a committed maintainer (security, bugfixes) for every single one of them, currently it even has to be a Novell employee - - every package there has to be maintained for many years (for the lifetime of the corresponding SLE, actually) - - Novell provides support to SLE customers (see level1->level3) for those packages, 24/7 Packages in Factory have a much higher payload in terms of efforts than packages in other repos. More packages in Factory = more work = less time = (less overall quality + less innovation) 5) Mimicking other distros ========================== Obviously, looking at what works and what doesn't in other distros makes sense. But the grass is always greener on the other side. Alexey, are you aware of the issues Debian users are encountering with those 18000 packages ? Don't just throw some numbers into the room. And Fedora isn't openSUSE: Fedora is much more of a playground for experimenting and throwing new stuff at their users than openSUSE is, because openSUSE is the foundation of SLE releases... and because we, openSUSE users, value that relative stability (ok, arguably, GNOME has Pulseaudio in 11.0 but well.. I guess you see my point ;)) 6) Stability is the key ======================= The goal of the contrib repository must indeed be "stability", which essentially means two things: - - feature freeze: when the Factory repository is freezed, the contrib repository must be freezed too; only allow bugfix upgrades (as, clearly, I doubt we'd find enough human resources to backport fixes) and reject feature upgrades - - stable software: packages that are in there need a lot of testing and must hence be picked carefully The point is to make an "additional" type of repository, not an "always the latest". And then we should think about how to have those packages tested properly in order to gain an acceptable level of quality in there when openSUSE distro releases happen (or, rather, when they're freezed). Following the alpha/beta/RC cycles of Factory and issue the same calls for testing could be an option. cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser <pascal.bleser(a)opensuse.org> /\\ http://opensuse.org -- I took the green pill _\_v FOSDEM::23+24 Feb 2008, Brussels, http://fosdem.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIpiNzr3NMWliFcXcRAu60AJ97nnB2gFFdn9H4zjLVJ4ba/5RlFgCffVrn h5sWCiPqXCuzdyFembHaAq4= =h3hh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-offtopic] Re: [opensuse-factory] The KDE way for openSUSE 11.1
by Alexey Eremenko 01 Sep '08

01 Sep '08

Well, seriously, removing KDE 3.x means pissing on a lot of Susers. Removing it will do nothing good to the distro. Except it will leave a lot of users angry. -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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