openSUSE Factory February 2008

factory@lists.opensuse.org

103 participants
98 discussions

[opensuse-factory] modules gobble disk space with built kernel
by Felix Miata 14 Jul '08

14 Jul '08

/lib/modules/(stock2.6.21kernel)# du -s 60804 . /lib/modules/(my2.6.21kernel)# du -s 538292 . That's a 785% increase in space consumed by my modules over stock modules. Does that happen for anyone building their own Factory kernel? Can a more normal space consumption be made to happen by a mere mortal kernel building novice like myself? What I did was: 1-apply the patch from http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7513 2-zcat /proc/config.gz > .config 3-make menuconfig to add smbfs and change the CONFIG_LOCALVERSION 4-make 5-make modules_install 6-INSTALL_PATH=/boot make install 7-fix the resulting broken /boot/grub/menu.lst -- "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!" 2 Corinthians 5:17 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] AIGLX
by Francis Giannaros 30 May '08

30 May '08

Users tend to ask about AIGLX quite a bit. Why do we not have this enabled by default, where possible? Xgl is nice and a lot of people prefer it (including myself), but a lot of people prefer using AIGLX too. Having it enabled by default where possible of course also provides the possibility of switching between compiz/kwin/metacity easier too. If not setting it up by default, perhaps we could consider having a script similar to gnome-xgl-switch for setting it up a little more easily for users. Any thoughts? Regards, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] FYI: Freetype is broken in FACTORY
by Andreas Jaeger 30 May '08

30 May '08

FYI: Current freetype in FACTORY is broken, use the version from Alpha4 instead of updating, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj(a)suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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[opensuse-factory] Latest Factory Installation YAST observations:
by Bryen 09 Apr '08

09 Apr '08

(Using Factory boot.iso dated 01/18/08) 1. I noticed that during installation, pop-up dialog boxes requiring user action show up in the upper left corner. Took me a while to notice it, as I kept clicking "Next" with no results. Wouldn't it be better to have this pop up in the center of the screen? 2. During partition operations, I would go into fstab options. When done, it would not go back to the primary partition window. I finally realized I needed to alt+tab to get to that window to click done before returning to the main installer window. 3. When all is said and done, I log into my new system just fine with no problems. However, when rebooting, the system goes to the second phase of Installer and says the last installation attempt had failed. I've found that if I ignore this, it will still boot into the system normally and I can log in there. Subsequent reboots do not present this error again. If I do not ignore the message and proceed to re-answer the questions (which strangely enough are already populated with my previous answers) then the error is repeated upon each reboot until I ignore the error. Then it goes away. -- ---Bryen--- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] Experience of switching to Factory from Ubuntu
by Alberto Passalacqua 22 Mar '08

22 Mar '08

I read this interesting wiki http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Projects/Lived_in_Project/Ubuntu#Experience_of… There are some interesting points I share, and some points that imho are what characterize SUSE since the beginning, so I think it would be interesting to discuss them a bit to hear what users think. Vincent, the author of the page, asked me to clarify that what he wrote are his opinions. Of course it's the same for what I write. :-) I will comment point-to-point, hoping not to forget any. Quoted text is from the page. Let's start: >Note that some of the items here are simply caused by the fact that >openSUSE tries to be everything at the same time (distro for server, >desktop, etc.). It might make sense to have an install CD for server, >and another one for desktop. I like the full-featured DVD, which can do everything. And I think that having everything in one place just adds value and simplifies things both for the final users and for the maintainers. I mean: 1 medium allows you to do what you need to, and it's easier to keep under control its quality, at least in the general aspects (more people use it). >Also, there's something wrong with factory if we want people to use it >(especially developers). Ubuntu is doing a much better job here. >the installer is way too complex, with too many things to do, even with >the current simplification work going on in Factory. Yes, it does a lot of things and it takes longer than ubuntu, that's sure. But on the contrary it leaves you with a fully configured system, with the software selection you want, with network properly configured even if you have various interfaces, with a firewall properly set-up and with running printing services. So I vote for keeping it long. >sudo should be used by default for a desktop install. It doesn't make >any sense to have the root account. There's an option "Use the same >password for root as the one used for the user" in the installer, but >it's not about sudo, I believe. Thanks for pointing this out. I was myself a sudo supporter, but someone with more technical experience than me explained to me that sudo is not the right way to follow for various security/conceptual reasons, and I agree. In the end, UNIX has root, and the users should learn to manage it. It doesn't add complexity if properly explained. About the "Use the same password for root", I think it's plain wrong. Using the same password for root and the user reduces security. >in openSUSE, there are two radeon drivers: the old one and the >randr1.2-enabled one (new one), probably because the new one is still >in beta. Still, it doesn't make much sense to have both and the new one >works fine. Only this one should be used. I agree. If the one selected is really working in all the cases. If not, better two than a complaining user. >on startup, there's a 10 seconds delay in grub. Ubuntu only uses 1 or 2 >seconds. It helps with the feeling of booting faster. >Ubuntu seems to boot faster. There might be less services, some >services are started after GDM is shown, etc. upstart might help too. Ten seconds in grub are a reasonable time to allow the user to select the operating system. And I think it's a basic requirement also for accessibility. Not all users are young, fast and without issues. >Ubuntu uses brown as the color for the root window when starting GDM >(it's a gdm config option, I believe). It helps with the transition >from the brown gdm theme to the brown default background on the user >desktop. In openSUSE, we still use the greyish blue. It should be some >green. Hehe I love green, so I agree. But green is not much appreciated by various users, who switched back to blue or personalised backgrounds. >the menu bar is completely unusable in openSUSE: icons are too big >(distro patch), and there are tons of submenus (because we use the same >menu config as KDE?) I think it's related to the idea of offering a comparable choice of applications to the users on both DE. The real, not addressed, point is that the menu (main-menu) is not well implemented and it's probably one of the most buggy piece of software we have (read never solved leaks). I would love to see a kickoff-like implementation in place of the app-browser. >with only a very short look, I saw many >not-updated-to-the-latest-versions packages: yelp, totem, epiphany, >rhythmbox for example. This is SUSE policy. The released version is not upgraded until the next release. I usually agree with it, because it's thought to grant stability, but I think it was used in the wrong way sometime, not providing updates when features were lacking (for 10.3, read: anjuta, gedit with python support, ...). >Ubuntu is quite good at uploading new packages as soon as upstream >releases (at least, for GNOME). This is really great for a developer >like me. I agree. But I don't want to think to continuous updates to the released version ;-) >when I update openSUSE with "zypper dup", I have to download nearly 1GB >of packages. I seriously doubt that all of them were updated. It takes >me hours to get all updates... (slow DSL line) This is because dependency issues in the gnome side at opensuse are historical. One package usually brings half of gnome with itself. I don't know if it's necessary, but it's a common complaining we get. >the Ubuntu development version is nearly never broken. Factory is >always broken in some way (still usable, but either no network, or >uninstallable updates, or impossible to mount a usb key, etc.). Another historical issue. I always read/experienced these issues. >I had to manually install the firmwares for my intel wireless card >when I don't have a gstreamer plugin, totem shows a dialog proposing me >to install it. It just opens a webpage. Ubuntu actually installs the >right package (and adds the repository if needed) Well, ubuntu violates a bunch of laws doing that :-) The intel firmware is provided on a non-OSS support and on the DVD, and should be installed by default. Online there's the non-OSS repository, which can be added at installation time. Keeping OSS and non-OSS separated is one of the long discussed key decision openSUSE made. >I couldn't find all gstreamer plugins for factory... So no multimedia >experience for me. This depends on the fact that those plugins can't be hosted in -factory for the same legal reasons they're not provided with the distribution. Moreover they're packaged by non-Novell related guys. >it's actually confusing to have so many repositories on >software.opensuse.org. If possible, everything should go to the main >factory repository. I agree. But for codecs, drivers and others things, there are legal issues. >there are tons of installed packages by default that don't make any >sense. Some graphical ones (gftp? skencil?), some non-graphical (tcsh, >ksh, zsh: do we really need all shells by default?) Well, except gftp (the only decent FTP client for GNOME), the rest should be removed. It's ages we get the complaint of suse having this issue. >Ubuntu doesn't use a firewall by default because the default services >are secure and trusted (ssh, avahi, eg). With openSUSE, I have to >choose what I want to do with the firewall. Ubuntu does wrong on this side. Services are secure until you don't prove the contrary, and this happens often, considering that SSH is regularly patched, for example. A firewall is necessary imho, but its configuration should be easier. For example, while it's easy to open SSH port, it's a mess to have a properly working samba because of closed highports (hehe I know I said this too many times). >too many unneeded yast stuff. Users don't need to know about apparmor. Why not? A user can happily ignore that. Who does decide that the user doesn't need to know? That's not the UNIX philosophy. The user should LEARN to use his system, and the system should provide sensible defaults, of course (as a proper AppArmor configuration). >A tool to config the mouse model in X shouldn't be needed. The model of the mouse is selected in SaX, where the whole X is configured, and I think it's there because it might be necessary to set things in a fine way in certain cases. >There are 8 >launchers in the Software category and I don't understand >what they >are... etc. Perfectly agree on this! >seahorse/gnome-keyring integration: in Ubuntu, when I ssh somewhere, a >dialog pops up. In openSUSE, I need to use the standard ssh-agent, it >seems. I agree on this one too :) >in the middle of the afternoon, I see beagle-build-index and the man db >rebuild happening. Lots of hard disk use. Middle of the afternoon is >when I use my computer. It should be done during the night if possible. Hmm. This looks like a cron-job issue. It's usually done around late evening here. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] Firefox (mozilla) plans for 11.0
by Wolfgang Rosenauer 18 Mar '08

18 Mar '08

Hi, I want to discuss some planning for Firefox on 11.0 as JPR suggested on IRC. Version for 11.0: ----------------- First thing is that Firefox 3.0 final will most likely not be ready for 11.0beta1 or even 11.0beta1+ according to http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap/11.0 . I've found no detailed roadmap for Firefox but people think it won't be ready at that time. So we(*) are planning to ship a current Beta Version of Firefox 3.0 at this time and so hopefully will be able to update to the final version when it comes (probably with the first security round). One thing to mention for that case is that we need to update NSPR and NSS to support Firefox 3.0 whose versions are also not final yet (but possibly will be in time). (*) afaik JPR and MAW and myself agree with that. Other opinions to come here. A current testpackage for FF 3.0 is available through the buildservice in mozilla:beta. Feel free to give it a try. Packages are also available for 10.2 and 10.3. Older distributions are not supported by Firefox 3 anymore because of the minimal required GTK version 2.10. Shipping "vehicle" for Firefox ------------------------------ If you follow RedHat/Fedora development a bit, you might have noticed that they are not shipping a "big" Firefox package but only a small one containing Firefox specific compoments and UI. The core components are used from xulrunner what we shipped in the past as gecko embedding engine as well. I wonder if we want to do the same? Comments please! Wolfgang --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] 11.0 default filesystems again
by Sid Boyce 05 Mar '08

05 Mar '08

Not wishing to reopen old flames and wounds, but in the last 2 days I have had problems with ext3. On this 11.0 Alpha2 box I have /dev/sdb1 as / (JFS) 500G SATA /dev/sdb2 /boot (reiserfs) /dev/sda1 /ftp (ext3) 320G SATA Suddenly there was a system freeze that needed a hard reset and when booting, after the grub selection, a black screen appeared. I had to boot from 11.0 Alpha2 CD and run fsck. The ext3 partition was the one with the problem and it took ages to get through. The fsck for the reiserfs and JFS were all clean. Last night on a box belonging to a relative on which I did a fresh 10.3 install to a new HD /dev/sda1 (160G PATA ext3), with the old 10.0 HD as /dev/sdb2 (80G PATA reiserfs), I inadvertently pulled the wrong plug and powered the box off. The ext3 drive drive took over an hour to fix, the reiserfs drive took minutes, complaining of 3 errors, quickly fixed with --fix-fixable. Is there any chance we could have JFS as an install choice for 11.0? Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] YaST Installer proposal
by Bryen 03 Mar '08

03 Mar '08

Yesterday I had a call from a colleague who was installing SLES 10 to a server with 1.9TB partition. She was a bit freaked out because this is a relatively new thing for her to do and after the first phase of Installer, "it is hanging on the splash screen for a very long time doing nothing!" I knew she had a very large partition and so I told her to hit ESC to see what is going on in the background, as I had my suspicions. Sure enough, it had that message "Drive hasn't been checked in 47829 days" (or whatever the specific line is.) I told her to just be patient and let it run its course because she's on a large partition. I've already been seeing this on my machines that have 750GB drives. She had actually tried this on two other similar servers that they had just bought and was starting to think it was some kind of driver issue with that particular model. Obviously, that wasn't the case. In this day and age of larger drives everywhere from the data center to the home user, wouldn't it be a good idea if we had some kind of message between 1st phase and 2nd phase where it says something like "Depending on the size of your hard drive, this may take a while." before going into the second phase of installation? Or maybe this has already been discussed and shot down, in which case, I'll shut up. Bryen --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-factory] YaST Installer proposal
by Will Stephenson 03 Mar '08

03 Mar '08

(resending to list because Bryen has Reply-To: set... On Friday 29 February 2008 18:53:31 Bryen wrote: > Or maybe this has already been discussed and shot down, in which case, > I'll shut up. Not in the installer, but see bnc:344271 for the ext3 fsck on bootup, and bnc:309074 for another nasty installer filesystem mount gotcha. Will -- Will Stephenson Desktop Engineer KDE Team --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] Java and flash plugins on 64 bit systems
by Alberto Passalacqua 29 Feb '08

29 Feb '08

I would like to re-open a quite debated question about Java and Flash plugins on 64-bit systems. It was already discussed in the recent past ( http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2007-09/msg00413.html ), but no real and effective solution was found. Considering that 64 bit systems are becoming widely adopted as notebooks and desktops, I don't see the point of removing what was, in my opinion, one of the advantages of using openSUSE 64 bit in comparison with other distributions. It was the only one offering java and flash working out of the box. At the moment, flash plugin is supported through a plugin, which adds a degree of complexity and doesn't reliably work (some sites just show a white rectangle, and the plugin often freezes using a lot of CPU). Java is not working at all. The solution of installing firefox at 32 bit manually is just unfriendly, for various reasons, already discussed in the previous thread. To those, GNOME users face the difficulty of not being able to change architecture to packages thanks to the bad designed YaST software management interface. I see only one reason not to ship 32 bit ffox, and it is a space limitation on the 1 cd media, but certainly convincing SUN of releasing a 64 bit plugin is not a task for openSUSE or Novell and it's not a price to be paid by openSUSE users. If there's no effective alternative to the adoption of 32-bit firefox in 11, I would really like to see it back as default. Regards, Alberto --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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openSUSE Factory February 2008