September 2006 - openSUSE Factory - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse-factory] Proposal: Change in default fs for releases >= 10.2
by Jeff Mahoney 19 Sep '06

19 Sep '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all - We've been using ReiserFS as our default installation file system for the last 6-7 years now, and it's served us well in that time. Unfortunately, there are a number of problems with it, some purely technical, some more related to maintenance. I'll outline a few of the larger issues and offer my solution as a conclusion. ReiserFS has serious scalability problems. David Chinner's talk at OLS really underscored the problem well for a single, large, high bandwidth file system. While I realize that XFS-style scalability isn't a real goal for most users, ans isn't a target workload for reiserfs, the scalability problems are real. ReiserFS uses the BKL for synchronization everywhere, and since it's system-global lock, the problem doesn't go away when you split the file system into smaller ones. Lock contention alone is one problem, but it's made worse by cache bouncing between processors on larger systems. ReiserFS has serious performance problems with extended attributes and ACLs. (Yes, this one is my own fault, see numerous flamewars on lkml and reiserfs-list for my opinion on this.) xattrs are backed by normal files rooted in a hidden directory structure. This is bad for performance and in rare cases is deadlock prone due to lock inversions between pdflush and the xattr code. The quota code gets around this, but the fix would result in huge amounts of wasted space with ReiserFS. With increasing deployment of SLES as samba servers, and perhaps NFSv4 servers, the use of extended attributes will only increase. ReiserFS has a small and shrinking development community. Right now, the only developers really working with ReiserFS are Chris Mason, Jan Kara (internally), a rotating member of Hans Reiser's team, and myself. All of us have projects we're very much more interested in than working with ReiserFS. While Jan and I will be continuing to support ReiserFS for SUSE, Hans is increasingly (hard to believe) pushing people to use reiser4. Chris has moved on to Oracle and has expressed his opinions on leaving ReiserFS behind. ReiserFS v3 is a dead end. Hans has been pushing reiser4 for years now and declared Reiser3 in maintenance mode. Any changes that aren't bug fixes are met with violent resistance. Reiser4 is not an incremental update and requires a reformat, which is unreasonable for most people. Reiser3 lacks a number of features that other file systems either have or are adding soon, such as extents and growth beyond current limits. Since it's in maintenance mode, that's unlikely to change. I view reiser4 as an interesting research file system, but that's about as far as it goes. I've been unimpressed with its stability so far. I don't know how advanced the recovery tools are yet, but I suspect that the complexity of the format and the ability to essentially define the format on-the-fly with plugins will make a useful fsck extremely difficult. The solution for replacing an aging file system isn't to switch to a brand new unproven file system, but rather a proven one with a clear upgrade path. That file system is ext3. Ext3's performance in some situations may not be on par with Reiser3, but it scales better and Andi mentioned the other day that there is quite a bit of research going into improving the locking and general performance of ext3 going on right now, and since reiser3 is stagnant, I don't doubt they'll pass them soon. Ext3 has a much larger development community out there. Most other distributions use ext3 as their default file system, so bugs that don't end up getting reported to us and are fixed by other developers, we get for free - most Reiser3 fixes originate from Chris or I. Ext3 has a clear upgrade path. There is quite a bit of interest in the community in improving ext3, and ext4 is already under development. Like the upgrade path from ext2 to ext3, the path to ext4 is clearly defined. Existing file systems can be updated easily, and new files will be able to take advantage of the new features. Features already written and queued up include extents, a 64-bit journal, and 64-bit file sizes. Most of the institutional knowledge of reiserfs is bouncing around in my head. Jan has been getting his hands dirty a little bit, but beyond that, finding additional developers with reiserfs experience will be extremely difficult and I'd call training additional developers a wasted effort. Since reiserfs is in maintenance mode, the effort needed to continue to support it in future releases should be shrinking. To be clear, my long term goal is to use OCFS2 (or another CFS if one shows a clear adoption advantage) for the root file system. This would enable single-instance clustering at both the physical and the virtual distribution level and get us ease of management and flexibility in HA deployments. Realistically, though, desktop users are likely to continue to use ext[34] for the foreseeable future. Until we have OCFS2 (and the rest of the distribution) ready for such a deployment described above on larger servers, ext3 would be a suitable choice across the board. - -Jeff - -- Jeff Mahoney SUSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFCSu+LPWxlyuTD7IRAgJoAJ49w+Ml6/cf4HqLRoHAb7L7S3lDMQCfafIL JkIApJTPoS6sytFVaDI++KE= =mFFG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] Minutes from last dist meeting
by Andreas Jaeger 19 Sep '06

19 Sep '06

Here're the minutes from last weeks meeting. * Java for Distribution building Java 1.5 generates new byte code so that 1.5 compiled code will not run with Java 1.4. Since it's possible to have both Java 1.4 and 1.5 installed on a system, we decided to switch the default for building the distribution to 1.5 and will then evaluate how much breaks. Note: - Building packages with Java 1.4 is still possible, just request the right packages - The factory-extra tree will continue to deliver both Java versions for now. * Building distribution for i386/x86-64 with -mtune=generic The current settings are already equivalent to -mtune=generic, no change is needed. The suggestions for additional flags made on opensuse-factory are not usefull for the general case. * umask As proposed, we will - Remove the umask value from /etc/profile and store it in a config file: * Use /etc/login.defs not only for creation of home directory, but also for login * Use pam_umask.so - YaST2 will provide umask value only global User is able to set a value with chfn -m umask=XXX or can override the umask individually in their login scripts - the admin can change umask via "chfn -m umask=XXX <user>" (note: This can be done for root as well, so setting 077 for root is just "chfn -m umask=077 root"). We will not change the default values, just allow more flexibility. Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj(a)suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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[opensuse-factory] Games on openSUSE 10.2
by Stefan Dirsch 18 Sep '06

18 Sep '06

Hi On SUSE Linux 10.1 we had about 5 small game packages in our default installation + an additional Games selection used for all game packages. Should we do it similar for openSUSE 10.2? Any other proposals? The 5 game packages on SUSE Linux 10.1 were: - enigma - freeciv - frozen-bubble - supertux - xmoto (also often used as 3D test application) In Alpha4 we don't have any games packages at all. Let us know what you think. Best regards, Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Maxfeldstraße 5 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90409 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] patch + delta rpms
by Volker Kuhlmann 18 Sep '06

18 Sep '06

I assume 10.1 and the current state of 10.2 share the same package management. In particular, IIRC patch and delta rpms were supposed to be working. Now I'm testing this on a local mirror of the updates, which has full rpms exluded. I get (after installing mysql from dvd) from YOU: File ./rpm/x86_64/mysql-5.0.18-20.4.x86_64.rpm not found on media: dir:///media/src/suse/10.1/updates Obviously the file is missing - that's on purpose. Its delta and patch rpm are there. Is it a lot of programming hassle to attempt to install a .patch.rpm when the .rpm can't be found, and to only give a fatal error if neither can be found? (Well there's still the delta handling to consider.) Dito for download. This is on 10.1 with these versions (zmd not running): libzypp-1.2.0-1.27 libzypp-zmd-backend-7.1.1.0-42.46 yast2-2.13.64.2-0.2 yast2-control-center-2.13.2-13 yast2-core-2.13.22-3 yast2-online-update-2.13.43-1.3 yast2-online-update-frontend-2.13.43-1.3 yast2-packager-2.13.139-1.3 yast2-pkg-bindings-2.13.88-1.3 Shall I file a bug? Thanks, Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] Dist Meeting 2006-09-14: Proposed Agenda
by Andreas Jaeger 18 Sep '06

18 Sep '06

Here're the current agenda items. Any comments? Anything you like us to look at? * Java for Distribution building We're currently building java-1_4_2-sun and the suggestion was to switch to java-1_5_0-sun. * Building distribution for i386/x86-64 with -mtune=generic -mtune=generic is the default in the compiler. If someone uses -march=abc and no -mtune then the tune setting will be based on -march, and perhaps overriding the mtune=generic. -mtune=i686 is equivalent to -mtune=generic. Sooo, for x86-64 we should be fine (simply don't add anything), for i586 we might want to add an explicit -mtune=generic. * umask ("hard coded value in /etc/profile vs. pam_umask.so", see also "man pam_umask") Questions - Remove value from /etc/profile and store in a config file: - Use /etc/login.defs not only for creation of home directory, but also for login - Use pam_umask.so or use .profile parser solution? - Should YaST2 allow/provide umask value per user or only global? User is able to set a value with chfn -m umask=XXX Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj(a)suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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[opensuse-factory] kde4 on alpha4
by Chema Ollés 17 Sep '06

17 Sep '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, I read than I can download rpms from kde4 repository: http://software.opensuse.org/download/KDE:/KDE4/SUSE_Factory/ Well I use alpha4 and try to probe it. I use smart to do it,and this is what's happens: Upgrading packages (2): k3b kdebase3 Downgrading packages (76): 3ddiag gnome-screensaver powersave-libs MozillaFirefox gnome-vfs2 sax2 MozillaFirefox-translations gnome-web-photo sensors NetworkManager gucharmap smpppd NetworkManager-kde hal sysconfig cpufrequtils hal-gnome sysfsutils cups-backends hal-resmgr wireless-tools dbus-1 hwinfo yast2 dbus-1-glib ivman yast2-country dbus-1-mono kdebase3-SuSE yast2-dhcp-server dbus-1-python libbonoboui yast2-dns-server dbus-1-qt3 libgda yast2-firewall dbus-1-x11 libgnome yast2-hardware-detection dhcdbd libgnomedb yast2-inetd dia libgnomesu yast2-installation evolution-data-server libgnomeui yast2-ncurses evolution-webcal libgphoto2 yast2-network gaim libgpod yast2-online-update gcalctool libnotify yast2-packager gconf-editor librsvg yast2-perl-bindings gdm libzypp yast2-pkg-bindings gnome-cups-manager libzypp-zmd-backend yast2-qt gnome-desktop multipath-tools ypbind gnome-keyring-manager notification-daemon zmd gnome-menus planner gnome-power-manager powersave Installing packages (11): fontconfig-devel kdepimlibs qt-devel qt-x11 kdebase qt qt-qt3support xorg-x11-devel kdelibs qt-dbus qt-sql Removing packages (37): NetworkManager-gnome file-roller gnome-terminal OpenOffice_org-gnome gconf-sharp2 gnome-utils PolicyKit gedit gnome-volume-manager abiword gimp gtkhtml-sharp2 beagle-evolution gnome-applets kdebluetooth beagle-gui gnome-bluetooth kpowersave bluez-utils gnome-main-menu nautilus control-center2 gnome-media nautilus-cd-burner evince gnome-panel nautilus-open-terminal evolution gnome-pilot nautilus-share evolution-pilot gnome-session yelp evolution-sharp gnome-sharp2 f-spot gnome-system-monitor And at last this message: error: file /usr/include/X11 from install of xorg-x11-devel-6.9.0-48 conflicts with file from package filesystem-10.2-4 It seems than xorg-x11-devel has a symlink to /usr/X11/include/ on /usr/include/X11 and filesystem created before /usr/include/X11 dir (not a symlink like xorg do...) I suppose this problem solved in days (updating) but I see there are a lot of packages must remove and downgrade and this is a bad way to people can probe new soft.(in my opinion) regards - -- Chema Ollés Usuario Linux: #198057 Linux 2.6.18-rc5-git6-2-bigsmp #1 SMP Fri Sep 1 22:19:04 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFDCq765SpD7GhbzoRAsiFAKCuvAdiFy+1RzwotZq1R/rn348EAACfbanT KNmYyUFz4HMvyGqI2YnGTck= =JfXI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] smbfs on alpha4
by Chema Ollés 17 Sep '06

17 Sep '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, I see my kernel hasn't smbfs module to mount samba dirs. I try to compile and I can't because there are errors. Well I thing is a bug and send a message to bugszilla. This is the answer: - ------- Comment #3 from gregkh(a)novell.com 2006-09-15 16:22 MST ------- use cifs instead of smbfs. smbfs will not be supported in 10.2, as it is no longer supported by the upstream kernel either. ****** Well,I change to cifs,but is possible I lost an important mail but who decided no support smbfs,is the firts time I see it... regards - -- Chema Ollés Usuario Linux: #198057 Linux 2.6.18-rc5-git6-2-bigsmp #1 SMP Fri Sep 1 22:19:04 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFDCxk65SpD7GhbzoRAkOGAKChTtFXowcVWUCYG1y3ELbSYmFN9ACeNZQg hnLZffaLzx2ohpk1bw4AxjY= =B6Xc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] kernel-update
by Marcel Hilzinger 16 Sep '06

16 Sep '06

My 10.1 showed me a kernel-update today. Katalog is 20060802-132038 What's this? Is this a patch from august? Why is it installed only now then? -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marcel Hilzinger Linux New Media AG Süskindstr. 4 D-81929 München Tel: +49 (89) 99 34 11 0 Fax: +49 (89) 99 34 11 99 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] 10.2 Alpha 4 install fails on low end hardware
by Richard 16 Sep '06

16 Sep '06

10.2a4 cd1 & mini-iso (both checked with md5sum on file and verified by k3b burner) Very early in install, "Kernel panic - not syncing: attempted to kill init!" occurs just after "freeing unused kernel memory" message, which is followed by "SMP" alone on a line. Hardware isn't SMP... Tried default install, "safe settings" and using F4 to pre-select NFS & server - all crash in the same way. Hardware is AMD K6-2/500 with 512M RAM, ATI AGP video; runs 10.1 perfectly. I can post a picture of the screen but obviously no log files etc. This looks similar to 203466 (not posted by me) though that was 10.2 alpha 3. Has anyone had a successful install on 10.2a4 on similar low end hardware? I have raised bug 204252 for this. -- Cheers Richard. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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Fwd: [opensuse-factory] Re: Sun JVM 1.5 (was: Dist Meeting 2006-09-14: Proposed Agenda)
by Marc Collin 14 Sep '06

14 Sep '06

hope java 1.5 will be the default jvm --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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