May 2006 - openSUSE Factory - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Package Management Design and Experience
by Andreas Jaeger 12 Jul '06

12 Jul '06

As discussed last week, I wanted to continue the discussion about the package management changes - but not concentrating on the real bugs we're fixing now but on general issues: With SUSE Linux 10.1 we have redesigned the way we handle software. We are proud to be able to announce our new software management backend which is based on the so-called library "libzypp" and which also integrates Novell's ZENworks technology. Also we decided to follow the repomd standard (sometimes known as "YUM repository") for our new software repositories. In fact we are now able to manage more than packages only. We have integrated flavors like patches, patterns and even products all of which are defined and handled equivalently to packages. This new framework allows for new ways to define system dependencies and to build more complex application stacks also considering certain patch levels, patterns or even products to depend on. Also we were able to fix the well known issue where one could compromise a system installation by installing outdated packages after already having applied patches. Using the new technology the system is now able to detect these kinds of package-patch dependency violations. By integrating Novell's ZENworks technology we enriched our distribution by a new command line tool called 'rug' and a daemon called 'zmd' which are able to keep your system up-to-date. Also we invented a new easy-to-use patch management user interface which is called 'zen-updater'. These new tools are also able to tie into a ZENworks Linux Management infrastructure in order to allow for centralized remote management. As these changes are also impacting the user experience regarding package and patch management we'd very welcome to start a discussion thread whether and how we still can further improve the current toolchain. One question we have is how the new tools rug, zen-updater and zmd compare to what we had before with YaST Online Update and suseWatcher. We are interested in every feedback ranging from architecture, design or used standards and their enhancements. As this topic is not a very easy one I guess we'll need several iterations for this discussion. Therefore I'll try to summarize the first discussion outcomes on http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp/Design. After a couple of weeks we can then continue the discussion after everybody had the chance to work with - and love/hate - the new toolchain, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj(a)suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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Suse 10.1 and ZENworks Linux Management compatibility
by Jan Steinkuehler (AC/EDD) 29 Jun '06

29 Jun '06

Hi, With the supplied ZMD tools I was unable to connect to a ZENworks 7 server: host1-eth0:~ # rug sa https://server Waking up ZMD...Done ERROR: Could not add 'https://server': No suitable service types could be found I suppose this happens because Suse 10.1 RC3 isn't listed in https://server/zenworks-registration/ostargets.xml (and not supported at all) As the ZMD tools are now part of the default install of Suse 10.1 I suppose it's planned to support 10.1 in later releases of Zenworks? Can anyone confirm this? -- Jan Steinkuehler Ericsson Research, Corporate Unit Ericsson GmbH, Eurolab EDD/XR/N Ericsson Allee 1 D-52134 Herzogenrath jan.steinkuehler(a)ericsson.com

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Problem with Sound and Suspend
by Marcel Hilzinger 08 Jun '06

08 Jun '06

Shuttle XPC, SB Audigy LS If I make a Suspend-to-* and Resume, I have no sound as user, only as root. After little work, I found out, that before Suspend permissions under /dev/snd are set to crw------ 1 marcel audio 116 After resume they are set to crw-rw--- 1 root audio 116 Driver issue? Powersave problem? Another problem is, that the output is alwasy set to the digital out. How to tell the system, to use the analog output per default? -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marcel Hilzinger Linux New Media AG Süskindstr. 4 D-81929 München Tel: +49 (89) 99 34 11 0 Fax: +49 (89) 99 34 11 99

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Bug handling
by Andras Mantia 02 Jun '06

02 Jun '06

Hi, Can someone from SUSE tell me how bug handling is done there? I mean, if there is a bug reported for some version and is not fixed in that version, is it taken in account for upcoming versions or it is just forgotten? An example: - a bug (like #176249 and previously #148638) is reported for 10.0 - it was closed with WONTFIX as the change cannot be made to a released product - the bug is still present in 10.1 (somebody reports again) - the bug is closed again as "it's too late and risky to do it" - the bug is still present and will be possibly present in 10.2 (unless it's "fixed" upstream) (The upcoming possible scenario is: - somebody reports "still present in 10.2" in a new bug - it get's closed as "too late now for 10.2, maybe 10.3) The problem I have is not the fact that is not fixed, but the fact that the bug report is closed even if it is present (and gets forgotten). In KDE we do the following: if a bug is reported for version X it is considered to be present in all versions > X unless somebody says otherwise, but in case of SUSE this doesn't seem to be the case. Please enlighten me. ;-) Andras -- Quanta Plus developer - http://quanta.kdewebdev.org K Desktop Environment - http://www.kde.org

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Update stack test build
by Graham Anderson 02 Jun '06

02 Jun '06

Morning folks, Would this list be the best place to post feedback regarding the test build of the update stack packages you posted yesterday Andreas? Or is it better moved to bugzilla...? If so I can move all this to bugzilla with logs etc. Here are my observations so far anyway. 1. The 10.1 release update stack successfully installed the test builds after I added the URL as a YUM service via zen-updater. However the whole upgrade took an extremely long time ( 15 minutes approx ). I was unable to determine why it was taking so long, i dont *think* it was the downloading... 2. Adding services via rug is just fine, and as per the 10.1 release builds ZYPP services are synced with YaST, YUM services are not. Adding services via zen-updater, same as rug, it works and the synching is the same. 2. Adding a larger service such as main online installation from mirror( inst-sources ) is much smoother. The service itself was added to the list in yast inst_sources almost instantaneously and unlilke the 10.1 release the catalog was not immediately downloaded but was only fetched when the finish button was pressed. At a rough guess I would say the whole process of adding the main installation source is 50% quicker now. 3. ZMD scheduling seems to be a bit broken now. It appears that the service refresh happens at the same time as the hourly maintenance, even though it is scheduled for the next day. Once the full service refresh and maintenance has run ( hourly by default it seems ) the schedule is reset with an updated time for the service refresh 24 hours later and 1 hour later for the maintenance. Of course the service refresh still happens one hour later and another new time i scheduled for it. This has the side effect of a full service refresh will run if my system is booted outside of the hourly maintenance window, parse-metadata and update-status hogging 100% CPU for a few minutes on boot. If i reboot my system inside the hourly maintenance window this does not happen.

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my XML project
by houghi 01 Jun '06

01 Jun '06

As some will remember, I had a talk about an xml project. I have decided to drop this due two two reasons. Partly because of my limited knowledge of XML. but mostly because of the great work and better solution that was given with download.suse.com and download.opensuse.org. I believe the solution as it is now is much better and will only improve an there is no need to re-invent a tool that already exists and is made people who actually know what they are doing (thanks for that) I will (probably today) test what 10.1 sources can be added and which ones still give problems from the external repo's from http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_YaST_Package_Repositories -- houghi http://houghi.org http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/ http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > > Today I went outside. My pupils have never been tinier...

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entering repoview (fwd)
by Christoph Thiel 31 May '06

31 May '06

Forwarding to openSUSE(a)openSUSE.org and openSUSE-factory(a)openSUSE.org, as this might be interesting for this forum as well ;) However, let's try to have any kind of discussion on openSUSE-buildservice(a)openSUSE.org concerning this. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 20:45:13 +0200 (CEST) From: Christoph Thiel <cthiel(a)suse.de> Reply-To: <opensuse-buildservice(a)opensuse.org> To: <opensuse-buildservice(a)opensuse.org> Subject: [opensuse-buildservice] entering repoview Hi everyone, we have enabled repoview to make browsing the repositories more useable. This also introduces RSS feeds for all repos. (Some repos might not have the repoview browsing + rss feeds yet, as they are getting those once they are pushed into software.openSUSE.org and it's mirrors.) To get an idea of how it looks like, refer to [1] for the browsing part and to [2] for the RSS feed. I would like to theme the repoview pages a bit more openSUSE-like, but I'm currently busy with other stuff. So, if there is anyone who would like to work on the repoview template, please speak up now! The openSUSE.org wiki or the brand-new build.openSUSE.org theming offer all the stuff that you need, in terms of colors. The repoview package is available from my home project in the openSUSE Build Service (at [3]). Regards Christoph [1] http://software.opensuse.org/download/repositories/home:/cthiel1/Factory/re… [2] http://software.opensuse.org/download/repositories/home:/cthiel1/Factory/re… [3] http://software.opensuse.org/download/repositories/home:/cthiel1/

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bugs or not bugs
by jdd 31 May '06

31 May '06

I'm sorry if i was perturbating this other thread with my bugs remarks, but I'm very confused on this subject, and -visibly- I'm not alone, so this must be addressed soon. In short, what is really buggy in the update SUSE 10.1 sytem and what is not? reading opensuse list and suse-linux-e list, it seems that nothing works on many hardware. The "I hate SUSE" game is full of players. the "most annoying bugs" http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs_10.1#SUSE_Linux_10.1_.28Fina… is itself buggy :-) say not very clear. what can an ordinary user know about "zen-updater" (I myself don't really understand what it's for); "will crash YaST." is specially frightening. all this makes me think "yast is not reliable" so my reaction. all the threads about rug, zmd, smart... are also very disturbing. SO. we need a wiki page linked to "most annoying bugs" with a clear statement like "In most situation you can safely use YaST online update. More, you should use it for _all_ your software work unless you are experienced with others utilities." and more. And written with the normal user in mind, not the debugger... a page we could give as reference for any related question. thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

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Re: [suse-sles-e] Re: [opensuse-factory] SUSE on Woodcrest processors
by Rafa Grimán 31 May '06

31 May '06

Hi :) El Martes, 30 de Mayo de 2006 20:09, Alexei_Roudnev escribió: > It is transparent for the user's processes, so why do you expect any > changes in gcc? Well, if Woodcrest is a new type of processor (even though it's based on Xeon), it might have new registers, ... that have to be implemented in gcc. If it's not implemented in gcc, you might not get all the performance you might be looking for/expecting. Just as you can, for example, specify: gcc -mtune=pentium4 gcc -mtune=prescott gcc -mtune=nocona http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.1.1/gcc/i386-and-x86_002d64-Options.htm… pentium4, pentium4m Intel Pentium4 CPU with MMX, SSE and SSE2 instruction set support. prescott Improved version of Intel Pentium4 CPU with MMX, SSE, SSE2 and SSE3 instruction set support. nocona Improved version of Intel Pentium4 CPU with 64-bit extensions, MMX, SSE, SSE2 and SSE3 instruction set support. Maybe there's a: gcc -mtune=woodcrest The question would be: is there a -mtune=woodcrest? TIA Rafa > ----- Original Message ----- > Hi :) > > El Lunes, 29 de Mayo de 2006 11:59, Eberhard Moenkeberg escribió: > > Hi, > > > > On Mon, 29 May 2006, Rafa [iso-8859-15] Grimn wrote: > > > Does anybody know whether Intel's Woodcrest processors will be > > supported? > > > > It's a dual core Xeon processor. > > > > > > Would it be a x86-64? > > > > > > Any glitches, gotchas, advice regarding: kernel, glibc, gcc, ...? > > > > I have some new Dell PE1850 with dual core Xeon CPUs (2 sockets, showing > > 8 CPUs with HT enabled): > > > > zim01:0 11:56:09 ~ # cat /etc/SuSE-release > > SUSE LINUX 10.0 (X86-64) > > VERSION = 10.0 > > zim01:0 11:56:26 ~ # uname -a > > Linux zim01 2.6.13-15.8-smp #1 SMP Tue Feb 7 11:07:24 UTC 2006 x86_64 > > x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux > > zim01:0 11:56:50 ~ # > > > > /proc/cpuinfo says: > > [...] > > Thanks, but do you know if there would be any modifications to glibc, gcc, > kernel, ... ? I guess some registers have changed/been added to the CPU > (chip) but haven't found any info regarding support by gcc. > > TIA > > Rafa -- 50% of all statistics are inaccurate. OpenWengo: rgriman

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Re: [opensuse-factory] bugs or not bugs
by Danilo Jonas 30 May '06

30 May '06

So I guess people are supposed to dig their way through opensuse.org before they install SuSE (or SUSE or whatsoever)? C'mon...please. > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: opensuse-factory(a)opensuse.org > Gesendet: 30.05.06 21:59:39 > An: suse(a)linuxin.dk > Betreff: Re: [opensuse-factory] bugs or not bugs > On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 09:43:17PM +0200, Martin Schlander wrote: > > Check it out here: > > http://en.opensuse.org/Using_10.1 > > > > I, or rather the wiki page, needs some information on the best way to disable > > the beagle indexing stuff. And I also need some input on howto best recompile > > the kernel module in case of kernel update when installing nvidia driver with > > tiny-nvidia-installer. I think perhaps a paragraph on Updating > > (configuration, ~suse/update/10.1, zen updater, YOU etc.) in 10.1 could be a > > good idea. > > Nice. Perhaps also some ndiswrapper info and how to get your wireless > online if you don't have any other connection. > -- > houghi http://houghi.org http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/ > http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > > > > Today I went outside. My pupils have never been tinier... > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org > For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help(a)opensuse.org > -- Danilo Jonas Stoltenstraße 13 Haus 23-D-06 22119 Hamburg ePost: DaniloJonas(a)eMail.de Telephon: 00491705328945 Telefax: 00491212617051981

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