July 2007 - openSUSE Factory - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: Results of survey on use of proprietary software in openSUSE
by James Tremblay 09 Jul '07

09 Jul '07

On Sun, 2007-07-08 at 14:27 -0400, James Tremblay wrote: > On Sun, 2007-07-08 at 18:30 +0200, Alberto Passalacqua wrote: > > Il giorno dom, 08/07/2007 alle 09.14 -0400, James Tremblay ha scritto: > > > > > Gentleman, > > > I would like to point out that the teXlive\Tex\LaTex debate seems to be > > > concerned with a relatively small group(in a world domination approach > > > of distribution, which openSUSE needs) of university\scientific users. > > > > I really think it's important to keep existing users before thinking to > > the world domination, which is, however, far if it will ever happen. > > > > So you would rather hinder spreading openSUSE than to separate packages > onto alternative sources? > > > Excluding packages like LaTeX from media means excluding from the user > > base an important group of users: students, teachers, university labs. > > They won't accept to install LaTeX on each machine separately. You've to > > keep in mind that in many universities PC's are directly maintained by > > users and not by admins. > > These users don't already install MSOffice from a separate media when > they need it? Separating the OS installation media from the products is > a well established format. Ubuntu, is catching on quite well and they > use installation repositories for all but the OS. > > > > > Plus, universities and research centres are where students (future > > users) get in contact with Linux. Do you think they will choose a > > distribution which requires additional media to use LaTeX (many teachers > > and scientific papers requires it) or a distribution which allows to > > install it comfortably at the installation time? > > If they are university level users than they are smart enough to > decipher the location of an additional product media when downloading > openSUSE and choose to download the LaTex product media as well, or do > you assume they are to lazy to download an extra disk? In which case how > do they get the non-oss media? > It's a simple economics problem, how do you get the extra software to > the people that want it without it costing you extra money every time > someone who doesn't want it downloads. You provide multiple media and > installation sources in a well defined library. Just because it's free > software doesn't mean openSUSE should pay all the bills of your getting > it! > > > > > > > This program group seems to take enough space to be on it's own CD\DVD. > > > As openSUSE moves towards the idea that the base install should meet the > > > needs of a larger group, i.e Home Users, some of the current groups are > > > going to have to accept that there favorite program will need to be on > > > an "Add-On" product CD\DVD. > > > > We are not talking of creating an additional DVD or CD. We are talking > > about leaving LaTeX only on FTP. > > > > see above remark containing Ubuntu reference. > > > > > In terms of > > > sharing them, this will increase the ease in which you distribute the > > > programs to your students \ co-workers by alleviating the requirement > > > that you have to distribute and entire distro to your students \ > > > co-workers. Your schools \ departments could simply start saying > > > openSUSE X.x or SLED X.x are necessary to take part in course X \ work > > > in department X, much like they do now for other topics, and you then > > > hand out the Tex\TeXlive DVD. > > > > Right. I see the freedom in forcing someone to use OpenSUSE or SLED > > because someone else decided. The original idea was to use Linux (what > > distribution I like) and I will find the software I need because it > > works on all distributions. It's one of the principles which brought > > Linux to be what it is today. > > Now your just pissing in the wind! Schools\Universities force > homogenization on students all the time. Some Schools even force you to > buy your laptop from a list of accepted versions or even from the school > bookstore. You say it yourself "and I will find the software I need > because it works on all distributions", let them find it on > software.opensuse.org nicely package specifically for the version they > are on and easily downloaded\mirrored to the schools local > repository...and they all have one! > > > > We as community members are responsible to the distribution and it's > > > well being,(that old "the good of many" thing) and in order for openSUSE > > > to move forward it must make life easier for a much bigger group, as the > > > 1-cd install idea does. > > > > Right. Let the home users use the 1 CD install. And put what UNIX and > > Linux users want and expect to be part of the distribution on the DVD. > > No one needs to download a 4 gig DVD just for a few programs and its > download should eventually be discontinued (Bandwidth costs openSUSE > too!)and those buying the retail version should get 3 disks; > 1: OS base install (CD-1 of choice) > 2: additional products (everything on the current OSS DVD minus the OS) > 3: non-oss > > if a particular group wants something like the "Tex" it can be > constructed into an "Add-on" ISO very easily, maybe even with an on-line > tool to do so, since there is already a YaST module under construction > for this. It could even start a new business line for openSUSE like > those adverts you see for buying copies of Linux distro's, only openSUSE > could also offer any software in the build-service and any arch packed > onto an ISO and mailed for $X.00 > > > > > To win, Linux has to be accessible to everyone (another basic > > principle), also those without a fast connection, and they're a lot, for > > various reasons. That's why it's important to have at least one > > "complete" set of media. > > In that case, a library of downloadable\shipable sub-product RPM's\ISO's > makes even more sense, i.e. I can afford an hour of downloads this month > and I want the new openSUSE and the scientific tools group, I get > CD1-gnome in 15 minutes and the scientific tools in another 20, Now I > have 25 minutes to get a new game or two ;) vs I got the core dvd in 70 > minutes hope I can scrape up the extra cash somehow. > I shouldn't take from openSUSE or my co-workers\family any unnecessary > bandwidth. > > > > > With kind regards, > > A. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org > > -- James Tremblay Director of Technology Newmarket School District Newmarket,NH http://en.opensuse.org/Education "let's make a difference" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] personal checkbook apps.
by Donn Washburn 08 Jul '07

08 Jul '07

Hey Group; I have over the the years used "Checkbook Tracker" which seems to not be supported anymore. I did switch to "Kmymoney" which seems to work. There is version 8.5 (as I remember) and 9.0. It is a concern as to the development advances. By that I mean it requires several programs like koffice's libkdchart whic may get dropped in KDE 4. I would hope to export all of the files to a cvs or common data format. At that point I would like to move to a more/less KDE dependent checkbook program. Maybe something that works on postgres, mysql or sqlite. Anyone currently using a program or have recommendation. -- 73 de Donn Washburn 307 Savoy Street Email: " n5xwb(a)hal-pc.org " Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 Ham Callsign N5XWB HAMs : " n5xwb(a)arrl.net " VoIP via Gizmo: bmw_87kbike / via Skype: n5xwbg BMW MOA #: 4146 - Ambassador " http://counter.li.org " #279316 Did you know? The transistor was invented by three white men. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] MNG
by Donn Washburn 06 Jul '07

06 Jul '07

When I close KDE (runlevel 3 and startx) I get the following MNG error. I truly get pages of this error. Anyone with a solution or clue? -- 73 de Donn Washburn 307 Savoy Street Email: " n5xwb(a)hal-pc.org " Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 Ham Callsign N5XWB HAMs : " n5xwb(a)arrl.net " VoIP via Gizmo: bmw_87kbike / via Skype: n5xwbg BMW MOA #: 4146 - Ambassador " http://counter.li.org " #279316 MNG error 11: Function is invalid at this point; chunk vpAg; subcode 0:0

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[opensuse-factory] Alpha 5 and kmymoney
by Donn Washburn 06 Jul '07

06 Jul '07

Hey Group; I need to find a source or rpm that will work with Alpha 5 KDE 3.5.7 I need "libkdchart.so.#" for Kmymoney. Anyone seen a site with this KDE file? -- 73 de Donn Washburn 307 Savoy Street Email: " n5xwb(a)hal-pc.org " Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 Ham Callsign N5XWB HAMs : " n5xwb(a)arrl.net " VoIP via Gizmo: bmw_87kbike / via Skype: n5xwbg BMW MOA #: 4146 - Ambassador " http://counter.li.org " #279316 Did you know? The transistor was invented by three white men. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] Dist Meeting 2007-07-05
by Andreas Jaeger 05 Jul '07

05 Jul '07

Sorry for the late email, we plan to discuss later today the following topics in our distribution meeting: * FreeNx: use of /usr/NX FreeNX and NX use /usr/NX and this is the upstream default for NX packages by Nomachine. But /usr/NX which is not allowed by the FHS. Reworking the package is a major problem. What should be done? * Handling of dropped packages: Most update problems Thorsten run into in the last time happend, because of: We dropped packages, but nobody make sure that this package and _all_ subpackages and _all_ xxbit (meaning 32bit/64bit) packages will be removed from the installed system ("successor"). On openSUSE, this happend during Systemupdate with the YaST2 option "remove no longer available packages". But with different Add-On Products, channels and other products from Novell, this is no option for the Enterprise products, and it becomes more and more a problem for openSUSE, too. So, if a package is dropped in autobuild, we need to make sure that: - All subpackages and xxbit packages are dropped somehow by other RPMs, too. Or this package has only limited dependencies, which will NEVER change in the feature. For example it has only dependencys to libc. Dependencies for openssl for example are already bad again, because that interface will change and customer will run in update problems. - We have a successor for all main and subpackages. The same is true for package renames, package splits, and so on. With the current renameing inflation because of the library naming policy, a lot of people forget to handle all subpackages correct, and we have left overs like -devel or -xxbit packages, which breaks the solver. * Improve debuginfo packages To get a complete stack trace, we need several debuginfo packages. The simple idea would be to copy dependencies from the main package to the debuginfo package. But this would give too many dependencies since it would lead to include always the gcc-debuginfo package (currently 300 MB). Another idea is to reduce the size of debuginfo packages and mark them only for backtrace - with removing the source code. Any comments, ideas, suggestions? Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj(a)suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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[opensuse-factory] Check RPM packages required by a pattern.
by Samuel Partida 05 Jul '07

05 Jul '07

Hello everybody. I would like to make a minimal base system pattern for openSUSE, but as I try to leave the packages marked as required by the base system pattern and those listed on EXTRA_PROV, the installer always tell me that can't resolve all dependencies. Does anyone knows if there is an easy way to know all the required packages for a pattern? I wonder if there is a way to use ZyPP from command line over a pattern so it resolves all dependencies and get the full packages list. What I've done is to install a minimal openSUSE 10.2 on a VMWare machine and then get all the rpm installed. It works, but there should a better way I think. Thanks. -- Samuel Partida Amores ----------------------------------- samuel.partida(a)gmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] How to name that thing? Repository/installation source/Catalog...
by Andreas Jaeger 05 Jul '07

05 Jul '07

The discussions on the various mailing lists on how to name "that thing" have culminated in a face to face discussion in Prague yesterday where the systems management stakeholder took the input from the community and the usages in current openSUSE and Novell products in consideration. The goal was to have one technical term that we can use use in a consistent way in future new openSUSE and SUSE Linux Enterprise release - in software, documents, wiki etc. The decision was to use "repository". Other names considered where "installation source" and "catalog". So, yes we now have a management decision ;-) to name it "repository". I'm asking now the developers and documentation guys to change their texts and use it in new texts. On the other hand I ask everybody to give them some time and not file bug reports against documentation and software that uses the old names in openSUSE 10.3. Let's make it perfect for the release after - unless the teams can easily do this and tell us "file bugs" ;-) Regards, Andreas P.S. Reply-To to opensuse-doc(a)opensuse.org is set for any discussions. -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj(a)suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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[opensuse-factory] opensuse-updater: "Check for any kind updates" option?
by Rafał Miłecki 05 Jul '07

05 Jul '07

VGhlcmUgaXMgYSB3ZWxsLWRpc2N1c2VkIGJ1ZyBvbiBidWd6aWxsYToKaHR0cHM6Ly9idWd6aWxsYS5ub3ZlbGwuY29tL3Nob3dfYnVnLmNnaT9pZD0yMTYwOTcgYWJvdXQKb3BlbnN1c2UtdXBkYXRlci4KCkkgcG9zdGVkIHNvbWUgaWRlYSBvZiByZXNvbHZpbmcgdGhpcywgd2hpY2ggSSBmaW5kIHF1aXRlIGZpbmUuIFlvdSBjYW4KZmluZCB0aGlzIGluIGNvbW1lbnQgIzU3OgpodHRwczovL2J1Z3ppbGxhLm5vdmVsbC5jb20vc2hvd19idWcuY2dpP2lkPTIxNjA5NyNjNTcKQ291bGQgc29tZSBkZXZlbG9wZXIgZm9jdXMgb24gdGhpcyBidWcgYmVmb3JlIHB1Ymxpc2hpbmcgMTAuMz8KCkl0IHdvdWxkbid0IGJlIG5pY2UgdG8gcmVtb3ZlIFpNRCBhbmQgZG9uJ3QgZ2l2ZSBhbnkgYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmUgd2F5Cm9mIHdhdGNoaW5nIHJlcG9zaXRvcmllcyBmb3IgdXBkYXRlcyBvZiBfYW55XyBraW5kIChub3QgdGhlc2Ugc2VjdXJpdHkKb25lcyBvbmx5KS4KCi0tIApSYWZhxYIgTWnFgmVja2kK---------------------------------------------------------------------To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.orgFor additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] Alpha 4 and 5 MNG error 11
by Donn Washburn 04 Jul '07

04 Jul '07

Hey Group; When exiting the X server and Window Manager KDE in both Alpha 4 and 5 I am seeing pages and pages of "MNG error 11 function is invalid at this point". This has been proven to be a KDE problem on a very fresh Alpha 5 install from a DVD and on the previous Alpha 4 install. By the way Alpha 5 seems very nice during the install and first boot. What is MNG? - MNG (Multiple-image Network Graphics) Format It seems to be involved with png PNG's site calls it "covering PNG's animated and lossy cousins" -- 73 de Donn Washburn 307 Savoy Street Email: " n5xwb(a)hal-pc.org " Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 Ham Callsign N5XWB HAMs : " n5xwb(a)arrl.net " VoIP via Gizmo: bmw_87kbike / via Skype: n5xwbg BMW MOA #: 4146 - Ambassador " http://counter.li.org " #279316 Did you know? The transistor was invented by three white men. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-factory] Missing dependencies for eclipse-3.3RC3-5 and associated packages
by Grant Croker 04 Jul '07

04 Jul '07

When installing eclipse via zypper I get: Problem: eclipse-3.3RC3-5.noarch[openSUSE FACTORY 10.3] cannot be installed due to missing dependencies There are no installable providers of eclipse-archdep-gtk2 for eclipse-3.3RC3-5.noarch[openSUSE FACTORY 10.3] also eclipse-ui appears to be missing. Were we waiting on the release of 3.3, which happened last week? regards grant -- Grant Croker, grantc(a)php.net Software Engineer, Ingres - http://ingres.com tel: +44 (0)1753 559505 UK / +34 676 518209 España -- "Did you check the list?" YES. TWICE. ARE YOU SURE THAT'S ENOUGH? -- He's gonna find out... (Terry Pratchett, Hogfather) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help(a)opensuse.org

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