July 2000 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Get together date
by Derek Harding 02 Aug '00

02 Aug '00

Hi folks, I haven't yet managed to sort out the "programme" but the best date would seem to be 17th August. I hope to have a display from BECTA, demo/promotion from Applix and, I hope, VMWare and Corel. Roger, do you have any Corel/VMWare contacts? Can SuSE make copies of the version 6 glibc available (needed for Corel Office 2000) to save folk having to download it? Any other goodies? I'll draft out the topics Monday and, of course, I'll need volunteers to deliver the workshop information. Do people want to bring their own boxes to build the software in the presence of so much gathered wisdom? If so, let me know. -- Best wishes, Derek Harding derek(a)lagham.zetnet.co.uk

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Re: Fw:
by Simon Rainey 01 Aug '00

01 Aug '00

Dear All, To clear up the speculation concerning RM and Linux: - The RM Internet business (IFL) has run Linux since day one, i.e. over 5 years. - All the core services run under Linux with the exception of RM EasyMail and virtual web servers where users wish to use FrontPage extensions, which for commercial reasons run under NT. SMTP: Sendmail and Exim POP3: Qpopper HTTP: Apache FTP: wu-ftpd NNTP: INN DNS: BIND SQL: PostgreSQL and MySQL NTP: xntpd filtered web access: Squid - The server owl.rmplc.co.uk runs some majordomo mailing lists and a few virtual web servers. It is open for SMTP, HTTP, FTP and telnet access. It has been in service for some time (Pentium 133) and we have never felt the need to upgrade the kernel from 2.0.33. If it ain't broke don't fix it. - We never bothered to change the default web site on owl from the Apache intro page. It's no big deal. The virtual web servers use host headers to index the correct document root. - Owl is the only server on the IFL network that is open to telnet. It is required by a small number of developers who have a virtual web server on the machine and need more than FTP access. They are too mobile for us to restrict access using lists based on client IP address. Regular checks are made to ensure that owl has not been compromised and firewalls are in place to prevent it from being used to attack other hosts in the event that it is. Regards, Simon. ------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Rainey E-mail: srainey(a)rmplc.net Principal Internet Consultant RM IFL Engineering Internet for Learning, Research Machines plc, New Mill House, 183 Milton Park, Abingdon, Oxfordshire, OX14 4SE, England.

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Time
by David Willmor 28 Jul '00

28 Jul '00

what is the command to change the time on the system from the command line? thanks for any help David Willmor IT Services Hayes School

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Printing with Samba
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 28 Jul '00

28 Jul '00

> I assume this allows you to place spool data > into a directory. My question is how do > you print this data once it is there? Normally, the usual linux 'lpr' subsystem takes over, once it is in the spool (this is configured using the 'printer capabilities database' - /etc/printcap - I think) I think lpq lists the printer queue - there is also a general 'control' command that lets you obtain the status of printers, etc - but I can't remember what it is (it is probably listed on the man page for lpr and lpq). There are generally 2 ways of printing via samba : 1. Drivers are on the Linux box, and clients just print using basic drivers and let Linux do the formatting (eg ghostscript, etc for ps jobs, etc) 2. Linux box treats printer as a 'raw device' - ie it has effectively no driver for the printer. In this case, the normal windows drivers are installed on the clients, and Linux just passes on the received data direct to the printer. In the latter case, Linux could not print to the device (without an additional local printer configuration being setup). Kevin.

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Printing with Samba
by David Willmor 28 Jul '00

28 Jul '00

I was examining a sample smb.conf file and noticed the following: - [myprinter] comment = My Printer valid users = me path = /home/me printer = my_printer public = no printable = yes I assume this allows you to place spool data into a directory. My question is how do you print this data once it is there? I would appreciate any thoughts that anyone has on this subject. David Willmor IT Services Hayes School

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Anyone looked at galeon yet?
by Paul Hornshaw 28 Jul '00

28 Jul '00

Hi All (again) Has anyone looked at the galeon web browser yet? It's a gnome/mozilla based browser. The screenshot looks very impressive, and I believe it's not so heavy on the resources. It's still in alpha development though. I'm not so keen on Netscape because of a serious lock up problem that I had: (hdd thrashing)swap file overload/cpu load hitting 100% and the only way I could exit was to switch off. Not a pleasant experience. I don't like Mozilla much and Iynx is a bit fuddy duddy (for me). Anyone know of any other browsers around? Is there a linux version of Opera? Anyway, here's the link for galeon: http://galeon.sourceforge.net/ cheers, -- paul I've tried to give them up. But I'm back on the sigs again.

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Fw:
by adrian.wells 27 Jul '00

27 Jul '00

By the way... Someone in RM support told me a little while ago that they were 'shipping LINUX' - The chap eventually found what he was looking for and the conversation was dropped! Adrian

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Fw:
by nick-drage＠gmx.ch 27 Jul '00

27 Jul '00

Hi, > On 27-Jul-2000 adrian.wells wrote: > > Got this from RM this morning, do you think that they may be > > playing with LINUX? > > Yep. Netcraft says it's a Linux box. On the offchance I tried a > telnet, an the telnet prompt reports kernel 2.0.33. They're running > Apache on it as well. 2.0.33? Hopefully they've changed the prompt, when was 2.0.33 out? Then again, hopefully your telnet connection went to a completely different box that's sitting there waiting to catch potential hackers. > I won't probe further, but I rather think someone there needs a > meaty application of the clue stick; an obviously unused web server > is running with the default pages, and telnet is open. Betcha other > stuff is open that shouldn't be.... OK, two courses of action: ONE - considering that RM is a target for all those disgrunted students of yours struggling with puberty / being a teenager / etc someone with access to RM support phone numbers and email addresses should have a word with RM *real soon*. TWO - Roger puts up a promise of a copy of SuSE 6.5 as the prize, first list subscriber to change the telnet prompt to "This host has been annexed by the SuSE Linux schools mailing list" wins :) -- f�rchten Sie den blauen Bildschirm des Todes Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net

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Fw:
by adrian.wells 27 Jul '00

27 Jul '00

Got this from RM this morning, do you think that they may be playing with LINUX? ---------- > From: root(a)owl.rmplc.co.uk > To: > Subject: > Date: 26 July 2000 16:56 > > > _________________________________________________________ > > RM Networks Mail List http://support.rm.com/connect/forums/ > _________________________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe send a message to majordomo(a)rmplc.co.uk with the body text : > UNSUBSCRIBE RM-NETWORKS youraddress > > For help please contact : rm-list-help(a)rmplc.co.uk

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Print Server
by David Willmor 27 Jul '00

27 Jul '00

We are currently implementing a new Learning Resources Centre with 100 new PC's running Windows 98. We are looking for a way for all machines to send their printouts to a single machine which a member of staff can use to send to a specific non-networked printer. Does anyone have any ideas? David Willmor IT Services Hayes School

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COSE
by suse 26 Jul '00

26 Jul '00

Hi all Yes it was a good conference and I hope to email to the list the notes I am prepairing for the UKUKUUG news letter. One thing is for sure some companies who applied presure to BECTA appear to be very worried about Open Source hitting them badly. Who? Guess! Regards mike -- minkl(a)dircon.co.uk mike.clinch(a)ukuug.org School Focus responsibility

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] OSE Seminar / Conference
by Alan Harris 26 Jul '00

26 Jul '00

Hi Richard, I'm just going home from work at the moment, and will then be on two weeks leave. I will try and get some information to you from my home E-mail account ASAP. Alan richard(a)tortoise.demon.co.uk wrote: > > As a side result of this event, it would be apprieciated if those of you > > interested in developing Open Source School Administration systems would > > get in contact with myself so that we can exchange ideas and > > experiences. I'm quite prepared to make the results of my investigations > > in this area available to anyone who is interested. > > > > Alan, > > I have done quite a lot of work in this area and would like to > collaborate with others. > > I have currently written Delphi clients with MS SQL server. > > What have you been up to? > > regards > Richard > richard(a)tortoise.demon.co.uk

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] OSE Seminar / Conference
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 26 Jul '00

26 Jul '00

Hi, I was really disappointed that I had to miss the event, but I look forward to some sort of summary on ose.org.uk. I notice that there was an interesting mix of delegates ... > For those of you who missed the event, don't knock Becta, > they're treading a very fine and difficult line here. Absolutely - agreed. > Malcom and company need > support, not flames, for thier work and support of Open Source. I think the next big thing has got to be a statement of 'where can we go from here'. Did the conference cover any sort of future path, with any comments on what can be done to help - and perhaps more importantly, what 'sort' of people need to be involved. I would be interested to know what the future of the ose.org.uk website is too. I hope this conference will give it a boost, as a central point for information. It is interesting to note that discussions about ose/Becta and policies are happening here on the SuSE list - and not on the mailing list provided by OSE - I think this is a real shame, but - well, if a forum works, and people read it and respond, then I guess it doesn't matter ... Are people aware of the ose list ? Do you subscribe there too ? Should we leave Rogers mailing list for SuSE support issues, and continue OSE issues elsewhere (do you mind either way Roger :-) ? Kevin. Northants LUG

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OSE Seminar / Conference
by Alan Harris 26 Jul '00

26 Jul '00

Many thanks to Malcom Herbet, Becta et al for an excellent day. It was well worth attending. While there is obviously a lot of distrust and anxiety coming from 'those in authority' concerning Open Source, it is also obvious that the future is also Open Source. Well done Malcom for treading the fine line - a difficult task concerning Becta's position! Thanks also to Martin and Damien for some excellent presentations. For those of you who missed the event, don't knock Becta, they're treading a very fine and difficult line here. Malcom and company need support, not flames, for thier work and support of Open Source. As a side result of this event, it would be apprieciated if those of you interested in developing Open Source School Administration systems would get in contact with myself so that we can exchange ideas and experiences. I'm quite prepared to make the results of my investigations in this area available to anyone who is interested. Alan Harris Network Manager Bryngwyn School alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk

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Quotas
by Dave Williams 25 Jul '00

25 Jul '00

I've decided to set up a SuSE based file server. All I want is Samba so I did a minimal install (SuSE 6.4) and added Samba 2.0.7 I now realise that quotas are not added by default. I've added "quota" but it warns me that the kernel must support them. How do I find out if my kernel does and then how do I activate them? I assume a change must be made to fstab but what? I've also seen reference to user and group quota templates but they are also a mystery - where do they go and what do they consist of? Dave Williams

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UPS
by Miles Berry 25 Jul '00

25 Jul '00

Do any list members have experience of running a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) under Linux? Which UPS do you use? How do I configure the Linux server to do a proper shutdown when the UPS trips in? Thanks in anticipation. Miles Berry, CCCS, Oxford and St Ives, Haslemere

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VNC - Virtual Network Computing
by adrian.wells 24 Jul '00

24 Jul '00

David, You may already have these... VNC http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/ Versions available - as pasted from VNC Site LINUX 2.x for x86 (3.3.3 is glibc only) Solaris 2.5 (SPARC) Windows 9x/2000/NT(Intel Win32) Macintosh Beta - 68K processor (Beta viewer) NB: Stuffit 5.5 needed to unpack! - PPC processor (Beta) NB: Stuffit 5.5 needed to unpack! DEC Alpha OSF1 3.2 Windows CE 2.x Beta viewer (50K) - SH3 processor - MIPS processor VNC 'manager' & a "user unfriendly" server for windows http://www.chronetal.co.uk/ Adrian wells ---------- > From: David Willmor <jd99(a)hayes.kent.sch.uk> > To: SuSE Mail List <suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com> > Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Print Server > Date: 22 July 2000 10:33 > > We are currently implementing a new Learning Resources Centre with 100 new > PC's running Windows 98. We are looking for a way for all machines to send > their printouts to a single machine which a member of staff can use to send to > a specific non-networked printer.

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Masquerading
by Dave Williams 17 Jul '00

17 Jul '00

I need to extend my school's network beyond the 254 IP numbers I'm using - based on 172.19.50.x This network includes a router which links through an ISDN line to an LEA proxy server. Is the best way to achieve this to split the network into 2 segment and use a Linux machine and Masquerading to link them together. ie.- leave the bulk of the machines on 172.19.50.x use 192.168.0.x for the others use two NICs in the Linux machine, 1 for each subnet Install masquerading Will this allow the machines on 192.168.0.x to access *all* the services on the main network? Dave Williams

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Website filtering using Squid
by Purbeck School Network Support 14 Jul '00

14 Jul '00

Hi Could anyone tell me if it is possible to filter websites based on the site URL. We use RM's IFL internet connection so most of the nasties are taken out at source but it would be useful to add our own filtering if possible. Thanks in advance Dave Turnbull ICT Technician The Purbeck School www.purbeck.dorset.sch.uk

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XDM and X terminal mini howto in the making ...
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 14 Jul '00

14 Jul '00

Hi, I have been playing around with a 486 as an X terminal, and have been setting up XDM to manage it. I have started a 'mini howto' document that I will be submitting to the LDP. As there has been some interest here in the past about this topic (and several of you have done the same) - I thought that some of you would be interested in commenting on my draft document. Any comments or additions would be most welcome. This is aimed at configuring XDM really - I do not cover setting up diskless X terminals themselves (as this is covered in the existing 'thin-client' howto document). The draft is on my LUG project pages : http://www.northants.lug.org.uk/projects/ Ta, Kevin. Northants LUG

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] PostgreSQL and Linux / Windows
by Alan Harris 14 Jul '00

14 Jul '00

Many thanks... I have considered DB2 but the problem is cost (as a Lotus site DB2 would be great). Eventually I intend to have the whole thing running as a 'web based' operation to make the front end "teacher friendly". I have accessed the PostgreSQL server from another linux box using the Kpsql client without any problem so it's obviously a windows thing. I actually intend to use Perl to generate, execute and return the results from queries submitted via HTML - tests indicate that it will work here quite well. My interest in the windows clients was based on not having to teach admin staff how to use Linux! However, I don't think that such an exercise would be a bad thing. If it wasn't for the lack of CD ROM based materials for education based on Linux then I could change the entire network over to Linux 'tomorrow' so to speak. (slightly off track here but) Our school was criticised by our latest school inspection for it's lack of CD ROM use. Despite (in my judgement) potential Y2K issues with old dos based roms and despite the fact that we have school wide internet access. In fact, the Inspector concerned would'nt even speak to me about the network and wasn't interested in anything to do with non-teaching staff! How do we overcome such issues as this? What do schools already using Linux throughout do about such issues - I'd really like to know. Alan Harris Network Manager Bryngwyn School alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk Malcolm wrote: > hi Alan > > >But.... in the mean time, anyone know anything about linking SQL clients > >to backend databases via TCP/IP? (before I start some really intensive > >reading and research that is...) > > haven't done it with PostgreSQL, but with MySQL using the MyODBC drivers > from Access clients. I believe that the issues would be the same with > PostgreSQL, their are the drivers. The things to watch for: > security permissions, the ODBC drivers require a username/password to > access the DB, so if it is to read/write/delete etc etc you have to remember > its client machine, rather than user-based (?) > the ODBC management tools were a bit flaky, we use the web-based tools, in > particular phpMyAdmin (theres one for Postgres aswell). > > we have tended to use web-base interfaces rather than ODBC clients > lattertly, easy to set up and use, with JSP and PHP. > > if you want any more info, contact me direct. There are a number of reasons > of choosing PostgreSQL over MySQL (including the license), but there seems > to be wider support for clients and tools for MySQL. Have you considered DB2 > ? > > Malc > ------------------------------- > Dr Malcolm Herbert > Head of Technology R&D, Becta > 02476 847126 Mob: 07801 612438 > -------------------------------

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backing up
by David Woollard-Kingston 13 Jul '00

13 Jul '00

I wonder if anyone can help. I'm having problems backing up to tape. There's nothing physically wrong as the previous (Redhat) incarnation allowed me to backup and restore successfully, but using KDat in Suse 6.3 only reports a missing tape. On startup the system acknowledges the tape drive as /dev/st01 but try as I might I cannot mount it. Any ideas anyone. p.s. I should add that my system was installed by a super bright ex-student who has since moved on - I'm busy learning more about Linux but I would be very grateful if any technical that is offered be in fairly newbie terms. Thanks, David Flegg High School, Norfolk

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Macromedia etc
by Giles Nunn 13 Jul '00

13 Jul '00

I asked my colleague (not a Linux devotee) who uses macromedia to comment on the ideas which have been coming up on this topic. I am forwarding his reply verbatim. _____________________________________ Giles Nunn - Network Manager Carms Schools ICT Development Centre Tel: +44 01239 710662 Fax: 710985 ____________________________________ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:52:51 +0100 From: Lloyd Walters <lwalters(a)satproj.org.uk> To: Giles Nunn <giles(a)satproj.org.uk> Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Mutilmedia (was: PostgreSQL and Linux / Windows) (fwd) Giles, There is a free Flash Player for Linux available from Macromedia : http://sdc.shockwave.com/shockwave/download/alternates/ That doesn't cover Shockwave - but I'm not clear on the distinction between Flash and Shockwave. Corel seem (or plan) to "bring Macromedia Flash technology to Corel LINUX" - see 9th Feb 2000 press release : http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/proom/pr/2000/mm_corel.html Macromedia do seem to be slowly dipping their toes into Linux. Their latest flagship product, for large scale web site development, is being made available for SunOs and Linux. But I'd be surprised if they're putting any effort into putting their whole product line onto Linux, if only because they're not making any noises about any such development. Meanwhile, they are rending towards a more open approach. They've long since published the Flash file format, Dreamweaver is totally open and extensible - at least to those with expertise in Javascript and/or XML. I also believe that a C source code API library for creating Flash files is available for free. Lloyd Giles wrote: > > You might like to comment on this thread which has just started on the > suse linux schools mailing list. > > _____________________________________ > Giles Nunn - Network Manager > Carms Schools ICT Development Centre > Tel: +44 01239 710662 Fax: 710985 > ____________________________________ > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:36:17 +0100 > From: Mr Murdoch <j.murdoch(a)rgc.aberdeen.sch.uk> > To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com > Subject: RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Mutilmedia (was: PostgreSQL and Linux / > Windows) > > Macromedia is the company that produces the software used to the CDs - the > package used is probably Director. The latest version of Director uses the > Shockwave player to play back the completed files, although the company > doesn't supply a Linux version as far as I know. > > John > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Mr J. Murdoch Email : j.murdoch(a)rgc.aberdeen.sch.uk > Network Manager Tel. : +44 1224 646346 (switchboard) > Robert Gordon's College > Aberdeen AB10 1FE Fax : +44 1224 630301 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: kevin.taylor(a)powerconv.alstom.com > > [SMTP:kevin.taylor@powerconv.alstom.com] > > Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 9:39 AM > > To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com > > Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Mutilmedia (was: PostgreSQL and > > Linux / Windows) > > > > > > > > > The aim should be any application for any platform, which > > > is becoming the goal for the corporate world. > > > > Many CD Rom titles that my kids use, support Windows 3.1, 95, NT > > and Macs. They tend to use Macromedia - so I would guess that > > there would not be a large investment in their time to provide the > > "viewing software" for Linux too - after all the same data is already > > used for various flavours of Windows and Macs - but I have asked > > various people (DK, Tivola, etc) about Linux support and always > > draw a blank. > > > > Again, this sort of thing could do with a bit more muscle to > > show that this could be a useful way for the publishers to > > go - could Becta do this too ? > > > > I do not know anything about how 'Macromedia' works, > > but presumably if they started to support Linux, then Linux > > versions of the popular CDs would follow. > > > > Kevin. > > > >

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Mutilmedia (was: PostgreSQL and Linux / Windows)
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 13 Jul '00

13 Jul '00

> The aim should be any application for any platform, which > is becoming the goal for the corporate world. Many CD Rom titles that my kids use, support Windows 3.1, 95, NT and Macs. They tend to use Macromedia - so I would guess that there would not be a large investment in their time to provide the "viewing software" for Linux too - after all the same data is already used for various flavours of Windows and Macs - but I have asked various people (DK, Tivola, etc) about Linux support and always draw a blank. Again, this sort of thing could do with a bit more muscle to show that this could be a useful way for the publishers to go - could Becta do this too ? I do not know anything about how 'Macromedia' works, but presumably if they started to support Linux, then Linux versions of the popular CDs would follow. Kevin.

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Mutilmedia (was: PostgreSQL and Linux / Windows)
by Mr Murdoch 13 Jul '00

13 Jul '00

Macromedia is the company that produces the software used to the CDs - the package used is probably Director. The latest version of Director uses the Shockwave player to play back the completed files, although the company doesn't supply a Linux version as far as I know. John ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr J. Murdoch Email : j.murdoch(a)rgc.aberdeen.sch.uk Network Manager Tel. : +44 1224 646346 (switchboard) Robert Gordon's College Aberdeen AB10 1FE Fax : +44 1224 630301 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: kevin.taylor(a)powerconv.alstom.com > [SMTP:kevin.taylor@powerconv.alstom.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 9:39 AM > To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com > Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Mutilmedia (was: PostgreSQL and > Linux / Windows) > > > > > The aim should be any application for any platform, which > > is becoming the goal for the corporate world. > > Many CD Rom titles that my kids use, support Windows 3.1, 95, NT > and Macs. They tend to use Macromedia - so I would guess that > there would not be a large investment in their time to provide the > "viewing software" for Linux too - after all the same data is already > used for various flavours of Windows and Macs - but I have asked > various people (DK, Tivola, etc) about Linux support and always > draw a blank. > > Again, this sort of thing could do with a bit more muscle to > show that this could be a useful way for the publishers to > go - could Becta do this too ? > > I do not know anything about how 'Macromedia' works, > but presumably if they started to support Linux, then Linux > versions of the popular CDs would follow. > > Kevin. > >

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PostgreSQL and Linux / Windows
by Alan Harris 13 Jul '00

13 Jul '00

Hi guys, Anyone out there with experience of using PostgreSQL? I could really do with some help in linking Windows '95 systems to the PostgreSQL server running on a Linux box. PostgreSQL is running just fine and I can use the KPSQL client to access the database tables on both of my Linux based machines. Can't get Interactive PSQL for Windows to talk to either though. Even after altering the pg_hba.conf file as suggested in the PostgreSQL users manual. The whole point of this is to create a school 'data warehouse' for pupil grades, targets, sats and exam results etc, with an aim to progress monitoring. I already have it running under Lotus Approach via an NT network. I'm also the network manager for a state school - we buy from whom we like and run what we like - at the moment we have an IBM / Elonex hardware base running NT Server 4, Win '95 & '98. We also have a Linux Intranet & Samba Server running (hosting file services for some 600 users). With regard to the ongoing debate, you have to be prepared to try things out. I've managed RM based systems before and hated every minute of it. I'm not a teacher but a full time techie (we have some forward thinking state schools in Wales you know). No formal training in ANY operating system whatsoever! The only way that anybody is going to bring Linux into schools is to sit down and incorporate it into the school network - start with an intranet server, then introduce file and print services, email and proxy servers. set up and play with a Samba server and then bite the bullet and try one (on the lower school pupils in the first instance). My aim is to have an e-commerce type system set up within the school relying on Linux / Perl / Apachce / ProgresSQL. When it's done (and if it works!) it's yours if you want it! But.... in the mean time, anyone know anything about linking SQL clients to backend databases via TCP/IP? (before I start some really intensive reading and research that is...) Alan Harris Network Manager Bryngwyn School alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk

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Getting together
by Derek Harding 12 Jul '00

12 Jul '00

Hi folks, I had an encouraging response to my e-mail about a summer get together and I have permission to use the school premises here in Warlingham. What I need now are some responses (probably by e-mail directly to me at the school rather than to SuSE since those messages go to my home e-mail address). I would appreciate the following information:- What dates you CAN'T make. If you plan to travel by rail (we can keep you inside London, it's cheaper!) What you would like to get out of the day. I would expect to start about 10 am and finish about 4 pm. Are there any business/organisations (e.g. SuSE, BECTA) on this list who would like the opportunity to have some input (not a sales push, though!)? Would people like to see VMWARE on demo? Corel Office? etc. I'm away until next Tuesday night so if you can inundate me with replies between now and then, I'll sort things out for the end of next week or the beginning of the week after. The school is in Tithe Pit Shaw Lane, Warlingham, Surrey CR6 9YB ( {HYPERLINK "http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?P2M?P=cr69yb&Z=1"}http: //www.streetmap.co.uk /streetmap.dll?P2M?P=cr69yb&Z=1 ) Purley is the "best" British Rail station (Connex) and attracts London fares. Buses aren't a lot of good unless you know the services. By road, though, things are much better, with easy access to the M25 (J6). O.K. - let the replies flow! -- Best wishes, Derek Harding (hardingd(a)warlingham.surrey.sch.uk)

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It may already be too late (was OSE conference)
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 12 Jul '00

12 Jul '00

Hi, Here follows a long summary of my experiences trying to push open source software. I really don't know where to go from here - but I certainly intend to keep trying. Any thoughts from anywhere are welcome. I was very pleased to see details of my LEAs plans for ITC over the next few years. They are planning the 'Northants Network for Learning' (NNL) with a view to getting all schools connected to a local WAN or somesuch by 2003 (I think) ... There was a name on the white paper I found describing all this, and I emailed him, asking about their views on open source software. I explained my interest (my local user group and my growing young family) and asked if open source software had been considered for the NNL. Unfortunately, he said that although he knows of several individual schools that do use Linux, open source software would probably not be appearing in the NNL infrastructure (this is my interepretation so I may have got this slightly wrong, but this is how I read it) - but thanks for the interest, and he would pass my comments on to his engineers. I am thus in the very frustrating situation of slowing seeing ITC in education take a leap in my area but having the centrally supported system tied around proprietory software ! I know that Linux would have so much to offer them (remote admin, etc) but unless they put up some resources to work out the benefits themselves, I cannot see it happening. It looks like they have already performed the studies and open source has missed the boat ! I have seen this problem so many times locally. I personally would like to support my daughters school getting connected - I could *give* them machines that run Linux and would manage their connection - but with their central LEA/ITC strategy based around something else, they would not be able to afford to support doing things 'on their own'. If we are to get open source software recognised for its worth, then the advocacy has to be directed at the LEAs/ICT support centres (in my opinion). Unfortunatly, this is the point at which people like me have no influence what-so-ever. When I found the Becta site - I was really pleased - at last there appeared to be a central body that would recomment and provide real data for things like the NNL - but I don't know if they were consulted - and I don't know what recommendations where provided (obviously) - but either way, NNL will go ahead without open source software, as far as I can see. Does Becta send out reports on their findings to LEA - how much promoting of open source is actually done to schools ? I think the ose.org.uk site is very valuable - but it must be maintained. I point everyone I know who is interested in this area to this site, but it has not been updated for quite a while, the forums are not very active and the mailing list has seen approx 6 or 8 posts in the last few months ... This is all my personally experiences obviously, and I hope some other people have better luck than me, but I am really disappointed that I cannot get the NNL designers to consider open source software and that Becta are not persuing a more active role in promoting open source software (well done by the way, Malcolm et al for your continued support). Oh well, we will keep going I guess ... ! Ta, Kevin. Northants LUG

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Fw: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Adrian Wells, Misspelling Microsoft
by adrian.wells 12 Jul '00

12 Jul '00

> "Nullum est iam dictum quod non dictum sit prius............" Surly not the point. Or are you showing off your ability to program in OCCAM ? :-) - whatever happened to the transputer? Now, transputers running LINUX, there's a thing! I've suddenly become power hungry, tonight we take over the world pinky! Adrian

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Message formats
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 12 Jul '00

12 Jul '00

Just catching up on email ... > If others have the same approach, perhaps we > need to agree not to use html in this group? The basic problem, is that the default settings for things like Outlook are to send in HTML, and read in HTML when appropriate, so often people don't even know it is happening - ie they don't see the HTML as an attachment and thus don't know it is there. If you are not sure if you are sending HTML or not ... see http://www.northants.lug.org.uk/maillist.htm for instructions on how to check and turn it off (see the note for Outlook/Netscape users). Kevin. Northants LUG

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Posting advice - was (Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools]OSE Conference)
by adrian.wells 12 Jul '00

12 Jul '00

> From: Mark Evans <mpe(a)st-peters-high.devon.sch.uk> > To: Nick Drage <nick-drage(a)gmx.ch> > Cc: Schools List <suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com> > Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Posting advice - was (Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools]OSE Conference) > Date: 12 July 2000 09:44 > > > Hi, > > > > I think this has mentioned before but not specifically highlighted ( > > apologies if I'm mistaken ), due the number of schools on the list and > > their censorship software it is unadvisable for posts to contained > > Actually the problem appears to be one specific piece of broken software > run by RM. Which given this history of such software (and the cowboys > who typically produce it) may well be objecting to any mention of RM > which is not "worship". > > More specifically it is a very bad idea to censor by content anything > directed to someone in a system admin role. How then can users complain > about being sent abusive email? > > [snip the rest which explains how to deliberately attempt to circumvent > such software] True (the bit about admin staff). Since I'm the one to blame I suppose I should apologize - but I wont, your all big enough and ugly enough to make your own judgments (is this offensive?) about the meaning of the offending administrative rear. My software ALWAYS used human intervention to check the context. e.g. telling some one to FO (for the benefit of those who have electronic grannies) is one thing, to talk about reported speech in an English assignment is yet another.

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] OSE Conference
by adrian.wells 12 Jul '00

12 Jul '00

I've been watching this tread with interest and wondering if we (those speaking) are preaching to the converted or are we just shouting in the wind. Which government/interested bodies other than Becta are reading this list? Roger, can you tell us please? Adrian Wells

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Promote LINUX
by adrian.wells 11 Jul '00

11 Jul '00

On Mon 10 Jul, Bob Harding wrote: > I'd like to use Linux (Navaho?) for our email/web proxy in September but I > don't believe that anyone can actually deliver and support so will probably > plump for back office/exchange server on our existing NT server. I find it interesting that the best advice that Bob has been offered during this debate to promote LINUX has been RTFM! Kind Regards Adrian Wells _______________________________________ Systems Manager Sidcot School Oakridge Lane, Winscombe, Somerset BS25 1PD. Please reply to adrian.wells(a)sidcot.org.uk admin(a)sidcot.org.uk for general enquiries

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Re: Adrian Wells, Misspelling Microsoft
by Graham Spratt 11 Jul '00

11 Jul '00

"Nullum est iam dictum quod non dictum sit prius............" Graham.

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] OSE Conference
by S Keene 11 Jul '00

11 Jul '00

Hear, hear! Stephen Keene ICT Co-ordinator Bury Grammar School (Girls) Bridge Road Bury Lancs BL9 1YH 0161 797 2808 I'm sorry I can't let that slip past me.... 1st: Any pupil leaving school today should have had some 'Windows' experience. However, I don't believe that ALL their experience should be MS Windows. To get on my band box 'We are educational institutions, not training institutions' Why don't Colleges and Universtities teach MCSE skills rather than GNVQ and degrees? (Cost of course would be considerably more....due to the cost of MCSE trainers...) Those who know me, will realise that I am not a blind supporter of Acorn, and I have been pretty fierce with my criticism of them going back many years... However, I could teach 'Computing' and quite a lot of 'IT skills' today using ZX81, or BBC B computers. No, there would be some tasks that would be better done with more modern machines - and some that would be impossible - but not many! The basics of programming - modular code, variables, loops, conditions etc are no more easily taught and learnt on an Acorn, PC or Linux. The appearance of Windows311 with different icons in different positions is completely different from W95 interface. Are you saying that schools that used W311 from 1990 to 1995 were up the wrong tree (because the tree hadn't yet been invented)? IT is very poor in many schools (read the inspection reports) and the MS/RM marketing machine made this an Acorn/MS issue. In fact the issue has always been one of the lack of expertise and staff. There are still some schools today (not ours - for what we believe are good reasons) that use entirely Acorn machines - and the IT is simply exemplary in every way - and their results prove it. With the potential break up of MS I suspect we will see a number of different 'desktops' appearing common as LINUX run MS applications using WINE, Acorn using Citrix, Litestep and BeOS etc. MS Office is a great product - but whether or not Star Office couldn't do everything that's required and save a great deal of money is one which BECTA should be actively investigating and promoting. I am particularly concerned about the MS licencing scheme which demands ALL computers in the school to be licenced for every qualifying MS application regardless or not of whether Linux or BEOS or any future OS will run on them - as this 'locks' schools into MS products in a rather different way that schools were 'locked' into Acorn products. -- Alan Davies Head of Computing Birkenhead School

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Promote LINUX
by adrian.wells 11 Jul '00

11 Jul '00

> From: paul <smartart(a)cableinet.co.uk> > Cheers, Adrian. If you're going to the seminar, I'll look forward to > discussing "tactics" with you - I think there's a lot an older and wiser > Tux can teach this downy fledgling. You smoothie! Less of the old! Aren't penguins mainly grey... err white? Like you, I have only been playing (at home, much to my sons annoyance, as he is my Guinea pig!) for the same time as you. Why, because I don't have the time here at work. Despite what I have said, I am all in favour of LINUX in schools, and sure, with time and effort (= cost!) it can be done. We are a private, fee paying school and so tend to attract a (hopefully) more informed parent who wants to know what they are getting for their money, they like to tell us what we should be using because of their (limited) experience. Odd schools running with the banner, each doing his/her own thing does not give confidence in the age of globalisum. What is needed is a system (as mentioned before) (like) the RM system (but one that works and does what it say's on the tin!), I would suggest a consortium made up of this group rather than (say) RM (despite my withering views of "software for teachers by teachers" - e.g. sims et al) SuSE does appear to be the best flavour that I have seen, and so may be a good starting point. We should not be trying to find a set-up that works or even the de facto set-up, we should be defining it. Maybe look at three or four types of software as a group, WP/SS/drawing/e-Mail etc. Pick the bones and go back to the writer of the best and tell/ask them how we want it improved for our use within the school environment, maybe incorporating the best bits of the rest. There is nothing worse than having to use three apps. when one ought to do the job. I don't know what happens in state schools, how budgets are controlled with regard to suppliers, i.e. the role of the LEA. for instance do PE departments have to purchase trampolines form specific outlets? Is I.T. a special case, other than being new and so able to be controlled? Is it that difficult to break away? Do we actually need BECTA? Sounds like another quango to me! We at the sharp end should be dictating requirements and policy. Kind Regards Adrian Wells _______________________________________ Systems Manager Sidcot School Oakridge Lane, Winscombe, Somerset BS25 1PD. Please reply to adrian.wells(a)sidcot.org.uk admin(a)sidcot.org.uk for general enquiries

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] OSE Conference
by adrian.wells 11 Jul '00

11 Jul '00

> We may be making a bit of progress, I've been slapped down by educational users > of M$ Office 2K for saying I didn't like it. Suppose M$ must be like toothache, > so long as you don't realize its there, it doesn't hurt. :-) Nothing personal, but I'm not sure that M$ and all the other misspellings help our camp much, it just makes us look petty. > I've managed to get 2 other teachers to try. 1 is just about over the worst > hump now, he's got his modem and display sorted out. He's using Mandrake 7.0. > I'm working on converting him to SuSE ;-) And the other's gone strangely > silent - guess he hasn't managed to get his modem working yet. Still, we'll > get there. eventually. above is the problem in a nutshell! I was forced by my clients to use a PC as they wanted me to support theirs. Windows 2 had just come out, I build a PC, shoved in the (5 1/4") disks and it worked. Win3 and all the variants arrived, I put in the disks and they worked. I held back on WIN95 but eventually put in the CD and it worked, the same with WIN98 - The only time that I contact Microsoft is when digging down into the Help system, API etc. (when they tend to be of little help to be truthful!). One can always learn more about an OS as time goes on, no-one can know all there is to know, but it ought to work (as announced) from the box. Once, when in desperation with MS, I asked IBM for a copy of OS2/warp. It arrived on floppies, I spent a day trying to get it to install (!) once it did, it was so slow and resource hungry that I threw it in the bin. The hassle didn't out-weigh the gains. At the time I moved to PCs I was running my business on Atari's, so-called games machines, that ran circles around PCs for quite some time. > We just have to keep plugging away. This makes it seem like a contest, do what I do, sneak bits in through the back door, and when ready and all is peaceful and running smoothly, announce your coup d'état! Kind Regards Adrian Wells _______________________________________ Systems Manager Sidcot School Oakridge Lane, Winscombe, Somerset BS25 1PD. Please reply to adrian.wells(a)sidcot.org.uk admin(a)sidcot.org.uk for general enquiries

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Summer Hols
by Derek Harding 10 Jul '00

10 Jul '00

With the summer break approaching, anyone think a day together somewhere would be useful? I think I can get us accomodation for the day at my school 'cos there'll only be me, the admin officer and, perhaps, one site-staff member in the place most of the holiday. I could set up an empty server and loads'a ports if anyone was after a practical "workshop" kind of thing. We have a reasonable hostelry (expensive food, though) an easy stroll away and I can use the minibus to meet trains at the local station, which is easily accessible from East Croydon (southern edge of London). We're in Warlingham, Surrey which is the north-east corner of the county. -- Best wishes, Derek Harding hardingd(a)warlingham.surrey.sch.uk derek(a)lagham.zetnet.co.uk

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Linux in use in Education
by Brent Murray 10 Jul '00

10 Jul '00

I am not involved in any way with education. But this information might be of interest to you. In the March 2000 issue of the Linux Journal there was an article about the use of linux in British Columbia, Canada for account administration for the K-12 school system. The web site for information is http://k12admin.cmsd.bc.ca also you might find the following site of use Linux for Kids http://www.linuxforkids.com -- -- ________________________________________________________ | Fight Spam! Join EuroCAUCE: http://www.euro.cauce.org/ | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Brent Murray=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | Webmaster of | | The Unofficial British Armed Forces ICQlist | | | | Website: http://come.to/brents | | ICQ: 2942935 | | Our county is called Lancashire, not Cumbria, | | Greater Manchester, or part of Cheshire. | =-=-=-=-=-=-brent.murray(a)newhey.org.uk=-=-=-=-=-=

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general thanks for card info
by James H. Carter & Cybèle de Jong 07 Jul '00

07 Jul '00

Thanks all round to those who passed on advice regarding Netgear ethernet cards Cheers james carter south lee school

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compatible ethernetcards
by James H. Carter & Cybèle de Jong 07 Jul '00

07 Jul '00

I'm just about to order some ethernet cards The Netgear ones looked a good buy Anybody know if they're a good much to Linux....etc james carter

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Squid problem
by Purbeck School Network Support 06 Jul '00

06 Jul '00

Hi I am a real Linux newbie so please be gentle with me. We have just installed SuSe Linux on a spare file server that we have. I am hoping to use it as a Proxy server. I have Squid running and it is working up to a point. We use RM IFL for our Internet access. I have a public IP address on the Linux server and it can get on the Internet without a problem. The problem is that we have to connect through a proxy server at RM (isdncache.rmplc.co.uk:8080). I can't figure out where this setting is in the Squid configuration file. What is happening at the moment is that I am getting pages that are hosted with RM and nobody else. So Squid is doing something it just can't get to the outside world. Any ideas welcome. TIA Dave Turnbull ICT Technician The Purbeck School www.purbeck.dorset.sch.uk

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Message formats
by adrian.wells 06 Jul '00

06 Jul '00

> Just a general plea, I don't know about others, but I rarely use a browser > to read my email, so html formats take a lot of deciphering! If others have > the same approach, perhaps we need to agree not to use html in this group? Good point, I always suggest that users send in plain format unless they ( need to use and ) know that the other party can read HTML - what's that saying about educating pork or flogging dead horses? - Animal themes today! Adrian

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Not you, Them!
by adrian.wells 06 Jul '00

06 Jul '00

Don't wish to offend, MY (animalistic) email comments were not aimed at the list - I can (and do) read HTML but nearly always sent in plain text. Kind Regards Adrian Wells _______________________________________ Systems Manager Sidcot School Oakridge Lane, Winscombe, Somerset BS25 1PD. Please reply to adrian.wells(a)sidcot.org.uk admin(a)sidcot.org.uk for general enquiries

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Summer Hols
by adrian.wells 06 Jul '00

06 Jul '00

I may be interested, but it will depend upon the dates mooted so pencil me in please - You don't own the pub next door do you? :-) off topic.... More animal stuff from >Dr Malcolm Herbert >Head of Technology R&D >Becta, Science Park, Coventry CV4 7JJ >Tel: 02476 847126 Fax: 02476 847120 >-------------------------------------- >"To err is human, but to really foul > things up you need a computer" > Farmers Weekly, 1977 __________________________________________________________________ > With the summer break approaching, anyone think a day together somewhere > would be useful? I think I can get us accomodation for the day at my school > 'cos there'll only be me, the admin officer and, perhaps, one site-staff > member in the place most of the holiday. I could set up an empty server and > loads'a ports if anyone was after a practical "workshop" kind of thing. We > have a reasonable hostelry (expensive food, though) an easy stroll away and > I can use the minibus to meet trains at the local station, which is easily > accessible from East Croydon (southern edge of London). We're in Warlingham, > Surrey which is the north-east corner of the county. > -- > Best wishes, Derek Harding > hardingd(a)warlingham.surrey.sch.uk > derek(a)lagham.zetnet.co.uk

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Message formats
by Derek Harding 06 Jul '00

06 Jul '00

Hi folks, Just a general plea, I don't know about others, but I rarely use a browser to read my email, so html formats take a lot of deciphering! If others have the same approach, perhaps we need to agree not to use html in this group? -- Best wishes, Derek Harding derek(a)lagham.zetnet.co.uk

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] compatible ethernetcards
by Edgehill E-Mail Service 05 Jul '00

05 Jul '00

Hi, I tried a Netgear (PCI) card with Linux some time ago - a little finnicky to set up, but O.K. We have settled on D-Link DFE-530TX (PCI, Twisted-Pair only, 10/100Mbps auto negotiation) - they slide in sweet and true, and are recognised by both Windows (3.1 & 9x) and Linux (Via-Rhine). - Cost about £14.00 from Action (less in quantity). At the end of two years in service, they've not (so far) fallen over, broken down or otherwise turned pear-shaped. Hope this helps, Regards, Paul Ellison <SysAdm(a)edgecoll.clara.net> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edgehill IT Department Email Service. Please check sender's address from body of Message for return address. Find us at: www.edgecoll.clara.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- From: James H. Carter & Cybèle de Jong <CJC(a)stonycobbles.freeserve.co.uk> To: Schools List <suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com> Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] compatible ethernetcards Date: 05 July 2000 00:14 I'm just about to order some ethernet cards The Netgear ones looked a good buy Anybody know if they're a good much to Linux....etc james carter

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Installing Apache
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 03 Jul '00

03 Jul '00

> [crit] (98)Address already in use: make_sock: could not bind to port 80 This means that something else is already listening to the TCP port that a web server would normally use - so, are you already running apache (or even another web server) on the box ? If you do # netstat -na | more This will list all currently running (and listening) network servers. Look for something like the following : tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:80 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN If you see this you are certainly running a program already listening to port 80. If you try # ps -aux | more you can look for something that could be a web server (apache is always listed as httpd). If it is not this, then the only other thing I can think of, is - is it possible you are trying to start apache twice - ie the first one starts, but the second one gives the error ? As a test, you could try specifing another port (is this in httpd.conf or it may be a command line option) eg 8080 and see if it starts up ok on this port (you would have to connect to the URL http://you.machine:8080/ in order to view its home page though). Hope this helps, Kevin.

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Installing Apache
by Dave Williams 02 Jul '00

02 Jul '00

I have attempted to install apache_1/3/12 but without much success. I'm not sure if any options need changing either at the configure stage or in httpd.conf. The error log shows [crit] (98)Address already in use: make_sock: could not bind to port 80 Any help much appreciated Dave Williams

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