April 2006 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] article on GNU/Linux in schools and universities
by Ian Lynch 18 Apr '06

18 Apr '06

On Thu, 2006-04-13 at 03:02 +0100, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Ian Lynch <ian.lynch(a)zmsl.com> wrote: > > Maybe you should join then :-) SF-UK evolved from this list and its much > > more active. > > I don't think so --- my time dabbling with Linux within compulsory education > ended five years ago; that was little more than helping the ITC technician > setup squid during my lunch hours whilst in sixth form. > > I'd be a duck out of water if I joined. Curious as to why you are on this list then since its largely the same issues. You say there is nothing that can be done to get change. Things are changing, albeit slower than we might like. The changes are hard work and nothing worth having generally comes easy. Attitudes are changing - I now have regular meetings with BECTA on behalf of the OSS community, that in itself is a significant change - but there is still a long way to go. In the words of Ghandi First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. We are at different stages of this in different applications. Apache is a winner, Linux at the desktop in schools is probably spread through the ignore, laugh and fight stages. The use of Open Standards is certainly a high profile theme with BECTA these days but there is massive inertia in the system. Even with committed people now its going to take years, there never was a quick fix option. If we just give up and say its all impossible it'll just take longer. -- Ian Lynch www.theINGOTs.org www.opendocumentfellowship.org www.schoolforge.org.uk

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] article on GNU/Linux in schoolsand universities
by Adrian Wells 18 Apr '06

18 Apr '06

> When the idea of the tests was mooted several years back it was to be an > 'online' test delivered through a browser and therefore accessible to > all. Why is it now 'onscreen' and proprietary? > Here's my tuppence worth - RM want to make money, as much as possible. > The overheads of a web application (for them) are large (servers, > administration etc.). So someone at RM had the idea of hi-jacking a > school's computing facilities (and admin. etc) to save them a packet, > and as usual it's the schools themselves that suffer, and what's worse, > our pupils. > Why are they allowed to rob us like this? ***Because Schools and charities are in the main a soft touch, they tend not to have "worldly" people working for them, and use the "ten billion flies" method of choosing products and services! I see the most bizarre business practices that would never happen in the "real world"! Why are ANY PLC's allowed (let alone promoted by government) to sell to schools in a limited market? Their hearts are in their wallets! When Capita redesigned SIMS (and their other products) as SIMS.NET, they promised faithfully there would be a web front end - I remember a meeting with their then boss who said just that. What they have delivered they have very insultingly called 'thin client' - it's nothing of the sort. It is a very fat suite of client tools interacting with an MS SQL Server database. They derive the term 'thin' from the ways that have tried to minimise network traffic :-) ***During my early meetings with them, they said categorically that there would be no web front end "it's not the right way to go!" (read - don't know how to!) now they are half heartedly changing their mind but at the same time telling us what a wonderful thing it is! They claimed originally that workstation upgrade requirements were minimal, then revealed a min spec of 256 Mb memory, and (if I remember) a 300Mb processor, but my experience is that you need 512 K memory, and about 1.5 Gb processor to get reasonable speed, and a higher spec if you want to use other applications at the same time while eliminating slow-downs. Upgrades to stations have cost a packet. At least we went into this with our eyes open. ***Too true, the actual cost and the projected capita cost for us to upgrade bear no relation! And how they can drop support of a product before they've written the next is beyond me! We've just learnt that the admissions package is to be totally rewritten! One beneficial side effect is that Office application and Suites like Corel work dramatically faster - but it's always easier to demonstrate administrative need to money men :-) Only now (3 years down the road from release) are they delivering web parts which will allow some web-based data interrogation. It's unclear whether these will work on anything but IE. ***My discussions have been that ONLY IE will be supported - they are afterall "microsoft partners" [MP]! even their help desk is IE only! :-( I have heard one cynical thought on a group a while back: that Microsoft hold shares in Capita, and this is one reason why they have adopted the .NET executable approach to development. Can anyone confirm that? ***Don't know about that (un surprised though. - many MP companies go with .NET though!), but I've been complaining for years that they must have friends in powerful positions to keep getting government contracts after ballsing so many up! And low! they've been "lending" money to the government! :-(

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article on GNU/Linux in schools and universities
by Richard Smedley 18 Apr '06

18 Apr '06

Hello list, I'm writing an article on GNU/Linux in schools and universities for Linux Format (yes, I've told them it's Easter, never mind =^). I've already spoken to a few list members here privately, and seen some impressive installations (eg Skegness). I have _most_ of the info I need, but would welcome anyone contacting me with their personal experiences of getting Free Software into schools (good or bad). I'm also happy to hear more about: Free Software in primary schools; LEAs; Attitudes of non-technical teachers; Non-UK schools (and universities); More on universities; Barriers to change. Please contact me off-list at richard(a)sc.lug.org.uk or keep that address cc'd in for on-list replies. Cheers, - Richard disclaimer: this article in no way relates to the work of MOST: -- Richard Smedley, RichardS(a)bvsc.org Free Software Evangelist, Midland Open Source Technology. http://www.most.org.uk/ ``Software Freedom for the Voluntary Sector''

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] article on GNU/Linux in schools and universities
by suse-schools＠kingsteve.co.uk 13 Apr '06

13 Apr '06

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Ian Lynch wrote: Hi Ian, > Sounds like the worst possible combination of technologies. Maybe we > need to start teaching technology in schools not all this ICT capability > crap that means no-one actually understands anything. My year 7's typing is, on the whole, so bad that I'm about to teach them how to touch type for a month! (even using tuxtype as a game for them to play with their new found typing skills). Yes, we need to teach skills and ideas not just how to use the cruddy KS3 tests. I did a sample test last week and it was so utterlly crap that I feel sorry for my year9 who are taking it next term! And I don't know if I passsed or not as the client crashed while uploading my stuff to the server! It was so full of bugs and little nasties that I have no idea how I'm going to stand up with a straight face and ask them to take it! I think it was worse than the QTS ICT test, which is a joke. Steve

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] article on GNU/Linux in schools and universities
by Paul Graydon 13 Apr '06

13 Apr '06

>>> Ian Lynch <ian.lynch(a)zmsl.com> 13/04/2006 11:19:15 >>> >On Thu, 2006-04-13 at 11:03 +0100, suse-schools(a)kingsteve.co.uk wrote: > >BTW, if it is so buggy I hope that QCA are going to get their money back >via Trading Standards on the grounds of fitness for purpose ;-) But... but.... this is public sector. We don't do things like that. We claim everything was delivered on schedule, under budget and above specification, despite all evidence to the contrary, complaints from workers and the like, which are just obvious fabrications anyway. Paul Graydon, CCNA Network Technician Haywards Heath College http://www.hhc.ac.uk (01444) 456281 "Joy is not in things; it is in us." Richard Wagner This message is sent in confidence for the addressee only. It may contain legally privileged or commercially confidential information. The contents should not be disclosed to anyone other than the addressee. Any opinion expressed represents the personal views of the sender and not necessarily those of the College. Unauthorised recipients are requested to preserve this confidentiality and should please advise the sender immediately of the error in transmission. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused.

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] article on GNU/Linux in schoolsand universities
by Grainge, Derek 13 Apr '06

13 Apr '06

> When the idea of the tests was mooted several years back it was to be an > 'online' test delivered through a browser and therefore accessible to > all. Why is it now 'onscreen' and proprietary? > Here's my tuppence worth - RM want to make money, as much as possible. > The overheads of a web application (for them) are large (servers, > administration etc.). So someone at RM had the idea of hi-jacking a > school's computing facilities (and admin. etc) to save them a packet, > and as usual it's the schools themselves that suffer, and what's worse, > our pupils. > Why are they allowed to rob us like this? When Capita redesigned SIMS (and their other products) as SIMS.NET, they promised faithfully there would be a web front end - I remember a meeting with their then boss who said just that. What they have delivered they have very insultingly called 'thin client' - it's nothing of the sort. It is a very fat suite of client tools interacting with an MS SQL Server database. They derive the term 'thin' from the ways that have tried to minimise network traffic :-) They claimed originally that workstation upgrade requirements were minimal, then revealed a min spec of 256 Mb memory, and (if I remember) a 300Mb processor, but my experience is that you need 512 K memory, and about 1.5 Gb processor to get reasonable speed, and a higher spec if you want to use other applications at the same time while eliminating slow-downs. Upgrades to stations have cost a packet. At least we went into this with our eyes open. One beneficial side effect is that Office application and Suites like Corel work dramatically faster - but it's always easier to demonstrate administrative need to money men :-) Only now (3 years down the road from release) are they delivering web parts which will allow some web-based data interrogation. It's unclear whether these will work on anything but IE. I have heard one cynical thought on a group a while back: that Microsoft hold shares in Capita, and this is one reason why they have adopted the .NET executable approach to development. Can anyone confirm that? Derek Grainge Webmaster and systems integrator ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of unacceptable material. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to administrator(a)wellingtoncollege.org.uk. Website: http://www.wellingtoncollege.org.uk ********************************************************************************

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