openSUSE Edu November 2003

edu@lists.opensuse.org

38 participants
44 discussions

Quick question
by Paul Taylor 22 Apr '04

22 Apr '04

How do I kill kde and return the server to just a login so that I can save on resources. I have never done this as I am a child of the gui and it is killing my web server on the net. Paul

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An Open Source National curriculum
by garry saddington 03 Dec '03

03 Dec '03

We use Open Source almost exclusively to teach ICT and I have the idea that an alternative Open Source National Curriculum would be a good thing, what do others feel? regards garry

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Open file formats and idiology
by Grainge, Derek 02 Dec '03

02 Dec '03

Sadly, programming isn't on the agenda in any part of the national curriculum in UK school - unless you do A-level Computing as opposed to ICT - which means Computing is therefore the preserve of geekdom in schools. Contrast that against India - all Indian senior schools teach programming and hardware, and few teach ICT skills (although it's creeping in now). Few pupils use ICT for coursework etc in the way the UK does. Few countries except the UK would allow as much coursework as we do. Indians have a long history in areas like Philosophy and Maths, and they value Engineers far more than we do. You then see jobs going to India from the UK. Not all parts of India, needless to say - but there is an IT industry, they have lots of very expert programmers and they have the infrastructure to support all the stuff we now outsource to them: it's not just about price. National Curriculum and GCSE ICT make me sad in many ways: the former is largely tick-list mentality (can he do bold, can he do italic?) and the latter purports to create mini software engineers: 15 year olds doing system analysis - get real. Tests like CLAIT and ECDL don't provide any guarantees that those who pass them can use IT effectively. So how do you teach IT? : set pupils tasks which require them to use various features found in certain packages. It would be nice if everyone could self-learn applications but that would apply to only a proportion of pupils in any school. Provide support for the self-learners and teaching for those who can't get their heads round it. Assess the quality of the work done: it is 'fit for purpose'? Knowing which button to press to produce bullets is irrelevant; or should be. How do you teach programming? Most schools don't. But it's easy to pick up bad habits and it's very important that students who do decide to learn by themselves get guidance. I know I give it wherever possible. Do all schools have someone with the ability to teach C++ or VB or Java? I doubt it. Teaching programming is like teaching Latin or Maths - you are teaching a methodology and the need for rigour, attention to detail. IT companies will snap up Classics graduates because they have the intellect and approach needed to do programming. Previous experience not necessary. You can do the Times crossword? Straight in. So by teaching programming are we falling into the same 'skills' trap? Unfortunately as soon as you write a syllabus it need to be seen to be 'rigorous' (ha!) and QCA get involved. Sorry if I offend anyone connected with exam boards or the QCA - but I reckon that their muddled thinking is doing real damage. That feels better. I'll go and take a tablet. Derek -----Original Message----- From: John Dean [mailto:john@rygannon.com] Sent: 27 November 2003 15:53 To: Chris Puttick Cc: Matt Johnson; SuSe Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Open file formats and idiology On Thursday 27 November 2003 14:50, Chris Puttick wrote: Am I correct in assuming that you guys actually teach kids to use a Wordprocessor. Surely, your time would be better spent teaching the rudiments of programming. Would you believe that I have never been taught a single thing about the use of any any application from the multitude of Office Suites. The Help files and tutorials have always been my friend not the class room -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of unacceptable material. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. Website: http://www.wellington-college.berks.sch.uk ********************************************************************************

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nx9005 size & orientation??
by Ron Johnson 01 Dec '03

01 Dec '03

Dear All I dont know if you can help, but I have just put Suse 9 Prof on my school laptop- compaq/hp nx9005. Display is useless I can't get it off 640x480 using the Control Centre. When I apply 600x800 or 1024x768 I get some very weird screens - unworkable. Have you any answers otherwise I will have to wipe Suse off. I did this as a prelim to putting Suse 9 on my desktop as I wish to try out some Linux eduaction programs. Now I am not so sure, although I hope it wont be a problem on the desktop as it is up to date hardware. Thanking you in advance Many of God's blessings Ron Johnson ________________________________________________________________________ Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams

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kernel bogie
by Paul Taylor 29 Nov '03

29 Nov '03

Hi all: If I can divert your energies for a moment from an excellent debate. It relates only slightly tenuously off topic (since SuSE/SUSE is now SuSELL). At my current school they are Novell-o-philes and use a Linux partition on every machine to deliver a customised M$ partition (I am, with the support of most at the school, trialling thin client to get rid of M$ completely-watch this space). However, they would like to modify the 2.4.18 kernel they use so that it can run a tftp server so that they can load some new files onto one machine locally and then push it out to all at the site. We have taken over the LEA support contract for 8 local promaries and hope to get more. All of them use OO. Since they are familiar now, they will have none of the objections cited by other writers on this list from parents. The battle needs to be started at an earlier stage and primaries I think are much more recipient to the get rid of M$ argument. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how this might be done? I know that tftp as a client sits in the sbin or bin, but we need a tftp server. I have recompilled a kernel a few times before with pretty guis but have not toyed at the command line. Paul

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Open file formats and idiology
by Matt Johnson 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

Hi all, A rallying cry for some assistance in a scary world. We're thinking of replacing MS Office here (97) with Oo.o 1.1 (to be honest, it's going to happen!). I've received a letter from a parent who is "alarmed" that we may be considering any alternatives to Microsoft, expressing how important it is for her child to be in a Microsoft environment because of the real world (I'm paraphrasing - not her words). I'm arguing along three lines... *Practicality (cost/budget/product features). *Educationally (we're teachers not trainers) *Idiologically (free thinking, open standards and specifically open file formats). Could anyone point me to some web resources for the definition of "educating" rather than "training" that would enhance my point. And also resources that support the case for "open file formats" versus proprietory (and thus I suppose opensource in general versus proprietory - although maybe this wouldn't directly help as we're at least "looking at Star Office". Hmm). The more professional the body of any report's author, the better I suppose (do Becta cover this stuff?). Any articles at all would be great. Cheers -- Matt Johnson ________________________________________________________________________ Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Open file formats and ideology
by Grainge, Derek 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

Another argument would be that whatever version of word the child currently uses will look radically different by the time he uses it in business; that the company will provide specific training; that what matters are *transferable* skills and you can pick them up from OO or Word or Wordperfect. I believe kids *should* use more than one product, and should grapple with the real world issues over software compatibility. So by letting the child use M$ at home and OO at school you are going to increase real skills in the long term. What does matter short-term is when students do work at home and at school; not if you are doing your job properly, students will know how to use 'save as' to change file format, won't they? SO that's not an issue either. Parents who focus solely on little Jim doing project work are missing the point. [actually it might matter - I know from moving files between macs and PC that although text works fairly well, there will be font incompatibilities; that embedded pictures and objects like spreadsheet charts and graphs may not make the transition cleanly, and are unlikely to be editable on the new platform.] And you can still take the high ground over education v training: sorry I'm going off a bit at a tangent. Does the parent work for Microsoft? :-> -- Derek Grainge Microtechnology Wellington College 01344 444192 dgg(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk -----Original Message----- From: Matt Johnson [mailto:johnsonmlw@yahoo.com] Sent: 27 November 2003 14:14 To: SuSe Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Open file formats and idiology Hi all, A rallying cry for some assistance in a scary world. We're thinking of replacing MS Office here (97) with Oo.o 1.1 (to be honest, it's going to happen!). I've received a letter from a parent who is "alarmed" that we may be considering any alternatives to Microsoft, -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of unacceptable material. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. Website: http://www.wellington-college.berks.sch.uk ********************************************************************************

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Re: Open file formats and idiology - some thoughts
by Alan Harris 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

Hi All, Some thoughts for you re: open file formats ; At Work I use a Mac, I also use a PC, at home I use a Mac and a PC running Linux. All three run OpenOffice 1.0. I have no problems transferring files (in fact when I can download the newer Openoffice I'll have exactly zero problems, apart from databases that is!). On both my Macs I have MS Office X and, in work we have a deputy head using office X-pletive on Windows X-pletive. I can't get his powerpoint presentations to load properly on the Mac USING powerpoint! However, they work beautifully if I import them into Keynote! OpenOffice is free, it's inclusive, it's cross platform BUT, as our Deputy Head so eloquently phrased it - "I don't want to learn OpenOffice!". As a thought, ask your parents (and teachers) how many of them have a fully legal copy of MS Office and can prove that fact - I'm sure that the answers (truthfully now..) won't surprise anyone on this list but, they will be vigerously refuted by the powers that be. If you listen to your staff and parents then nothing can possibly be changed because MS is what everybody uses - I've already proposed what you have and been shot down. So, I've made my own decision - My home is now a Microsoft Free Zone - any complaints from the school that my daughters attend will be met with the statement " Openoffice is a free download with no catches and it's cross platform - if you want to read my childrens files then DOWNLOAD THE B****Y THING , INSTALL IT AND ACTUALLY TEACH THE KIDS SOMETHING USEFUL! " I'm sick of teachers (sorry to offend anyone here but it's a fact of life), I'm sick of management and governors who have little or no understanding of I.C.T. and I'm sick of being ripped off my Microsoft. During a time of falling roles and reduced budgets those of us who have children in school should remember that each child is worth approx £3K per annum to that school. As tax payers and parents WE HAVE A RIGHT TO BE HEARD ON THESE MATTERS. Maybe we should actually be considering the transfer of our children from non-oss using schools to oss using schools wherever it is possible. They'll understand a slap in the pocket far better than they'll understand a technical or ideological argument. My final thoughts come from some comments made by Mark Rogers, Apple UK Managing Director, made in MacFormat Christmas 2003 edition (An Apple For Teacher) - "The question is: what are we trying to prepare children for? It should be about learning and giving them the skills that they really need when they go into the workplace, such as being able to find information or being creative. It's not about teaching them how to use Excel. It's not about the application but the process, and we think that can be done on any platform." Alan

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Open file formats and idiology - some thoughts
by Grainge, Derek 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

> A - level ICT syllabuses make a big point of extolling the virtues of client - > server and distributed databases but then accept coursework projects done in > Access (what is all that about?). OCR extols it in one part of one section of one module at A2. Pupil's knowledge really needs to be principles and background rather than technical, looking at exam questions. Being pragmatic, I would consider a pupil's chosen project - then point out that a 'pure database' solution will take a lot less development time than a web + SQL one. Less development time FOR HIM as an inexperienced developer. And since almost all the marks in project work come from following the development process and documenting it, and relatively few from the implementation per se, I would always want a candidate to spend as much time on paperwork as possible. Hence the minimum time necessary to a good implementation. This of course isn't education - it's mark chasing. But with UCAS points, parental attitudes, Management Team and school leagues to consider, I think we all end up doing a lot of mark chasing. My exam board may not specify Access, but all the exemplar and training material I have ever found for OCR ICT is based on Access - because that's what they know about. There's an OCR (I have had students develop database-only and others client/server stuff. It's up to them really. I will support what they want to do whether it's Access, asp, php, Mysql whatever.) -- Derek -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of unacceptable material. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. Website: http://www.wellington-college.berks.sch.uk ********************************************************************************

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Open file formats and idiology - some thoughts
by Grainge, Derek 27 Nov '03

27 Nov '03

> 2. We are running a competition for a mascot - like Tux but based on a > seagull for the OO.o Schools project the winning design will be adopted > by the project worldwide. Presumably the winning seagull will be doing what seagulls do over an effigy of Bill Gates.... No, just joking. -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of unacceptable material. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. Website: http://www.wellington-college.berks.sch.uk ********************************************************************************

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openSUSE Edu November 2003