October 2001 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Meeting yesterday and welcome to new members of the list
by Philip Hands 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Roger Whittaker <roger(a)suse-linux.co.uk> writes: > I've just subscribed various people to the list - please post a > message to say hello and introduce yourselves. Hi, If you were at the meeting, I was wearing a Debian t-shirt (with a red swirl logo on it) --- there's a photo at the top of this article, where I'm wearing similar stuff (except for the penguin ;-) http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/articles/issue6/lu6-Editorial-A_patently_bad_ide… I'm a Debian GNU/Linux developer, and run the UK Debian mirror, and am responsible for producing the Debian official CD images: http://www.uk.debian.org/ http://cdimage.debian.org/ I have only a peripheral interest in educational matters, in that I've been frustrated in the past in my efforts to provide free computers (which were otherwise destined for a skip), but I can certainly contribute on a technical side, and having been involved in Debian (which is completely voluntary, like OSIE is expected to be) since 1996 I may be able to make some suggestions about how to ``organise'' such a thing. For those of you who've not come across Debian before, we're a world-wide voluntary organisation (read, chaotic jumble of mailing lists) that puts together a Linux distribution (and soon a HURD distribution) and gives it away. Debian doesn't pay people to do this, and doesn't sell what it produces, and in most legal senses doesn't really exist (i.e. the machines in the mirror network mostly belong to people like me, rather than to Debian, and the bandwidth is donated rather than paid for). This probably gives a pretty good feel for what Debian is all about: http://www.uk.debian.org/social_contract which you will notice leads into the The Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG), which is where the Open Source Definition came from. My internet machine, that hosts the Debian UK mirror, may be of use to OSIE, since it has about 30GB of spare disk, and a 20Mbit/s connection at a well connected ISP. This machine could act as either a primary host or mirror site for the web site, and could do DNS secondarying etc. as well. Something I'd be interested in working on (although perhaps a SuSE list is not the right place to spend too much time discussing this ;-) would be producing Debian CD images, tuned to the needs of educational users. Debian has accumulated some funds in the UK, and have been looking for a worthwhile cause to spend them on (we never really need to pay for anything that actually makes Debian work, so don't have much use for money), so we could probably afford to have a few thousand CDs pressed, and send them out to schools that are interested. Cheers, Phil. -- Say no to software patents! http://petition.eurolinux.org/ Philip Hands. +44 (0)20 7744 6244 philip.hands(a)uk.alcove.com Alcove UK --- Liberating Software --- http://www.alcove.com/ http://www.hands.com/ phil(a)hands.com http://www.uk.debian.org/

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Health Service MS deal
by Kate Hanaghan 15 Nov '01

15 Nov '01

my understanding is that because this was not a new contract - it was basically the re-wording and consiladation of many existing contracts - it didn't have to go to tender. Kate Hanaghan Silicon Media Group +44 207 761 8219 -----Original Message----- From: Mark Evans [mailto:mpe@st-peters-high.devon.sch.uk] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 4:23 PM To: Robb Bloomfield Cc: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Health Service MS deal > Is it just me, or is this turning into an anti MS list? If the NHS was > spending this cash to implement Solaris with Oracle db's then would you kick > up such a fuss? I honestly think not.... The difference is that Sun is not a monopoly, nor have they been found guilty (more than once) of breaking the law. The simple fact is that Microsoft is a quite nasty organisation, who at some time in the past appear to have become something more akin to gangsters and terrorists than an honest business. You also appear to be missing the point that tendering rules may well have been ignored or a tender may have been put together in such a way as to exclude all bar one supplier. -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

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Linux in Schools Workshop
by SILCOATSIT＠aol.com 03 Nov '01

03 Nov '01

Hi everybody We are running a workshop on using Linux at Silcoates School, Wakefield West Yorks. On 2nd of November and still have a few places left, if anybody is interested. The day is aimed mainly at people who are thinking about deploying Linux in schools and want to see it in action with maybe a short session on LTSP and the new StarOffice 6 depending on demand. Below is the text of a letter we sent to Independant Schools in the north of England. So if anyone is interested please get in touch. John WIlson Using Linux and other open source programs in schools For two years Silcoates has been running its teaching network entirely on Linux servers. The system is reliable, versatile, and powerful and has proved its worth in that period. We are now offering a one day introductory course on the use of Open Source software in place of proprietary commercial systems, open to people from any sector of education. Here is a chance to acquire first hand knowledge of open source systems within a working school environment. You will be given the opportunity to share what we have learned about Linux in practice and try our systems out for yourself. The course will pre-suppose no specialised technical knowledge, but anyone who wishes will be able to discuss technical issues with those responsible for the system. We will be focussing on Linux as a server platform (using Windows 98 clients), but we will also be offering a chance to try Open Source applications software in the form of Star Office (which can run on Linux clients as well as Windows machines). Depending on the response to this initial venture, we hope to offer more detailed courses in the near future tailored to the specific needs and requirements of those interested in moving their own installations to Linux. There are further details of the use of Open Source software at Silcoates, giving some idea of the areas we will be covering, at http://linux.lexilog.org.uk/ The course will take place on Friday, 2nd November and will start at 10am. Lunch will be provided. If you wish to attend, please fill in the form below and send to Les Brown, Silcoates School, Wrenthorpe, Wakefield WF2 OPD, enclosing £15 per person to cover costs and lunch.

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Techies
by Chris Puttick 03 Nov '01

03 Nov '01

All good reasons, but... I'm on considerably more than that, but I manage a team of 8, including developers (Delphi, SQL, PHP/DHTML), and provide support to 2500 users directly and 10,000 indirectly over 40 sites. I'm project managing a team to develop a open source school/LEA ERP system (so much more than SIMS...) in partnership with a private company. I also take care of a lot of ICT purchasing decisions - well over £0.5 million in 18 months. The team locally support 250 PCs and 200 laptops and remotely another 200 PCs and 25 laptops. In addition there are 11 servers locally and 4 remote. There is something on the order of 100 different applications, running on 8 operating systems (a combination which would never be allowed in an enterprise). There is a layer 3 switched network (about 600 ports) with gigabit fibre backbone mixed with wireless. We use enterprise level software and hardware to maintain, manage and secure the systems, for example Fluke Network Inspector/Fluke DSP2000SR, Symantec Ghost Enterprise, Norton AV Corporate, Borderware Firewall, Veritas Backup Exec, etc. The point of this mini-CV? Commercially, my experience/skillset is worth £40k+ even in the local government sector, but schools in their current mindset could never pay a non-teacher that sort of money, or anything close. Their unwillingness to pay a non-teacher more than a teacher, coupled with the lack of professional courtesy given by most teachers to other professionals in schools, leads me along with countless other school IT staff to the verge of leaving. If the team here all gave their contractual 30 day notice and moved on to better-paid, better valued, positions, the associated schools would be stuffed. Without the type of handover you would expect in the commercial sector, a new team would be at a complete standstill for 3 months. A new team made up of the people who are likely to respond to an advert for a position at £12k would probably be at a total loss to even maintain the network. A team of people recruited at more realistic salary levels, with appropriate commercial experience would almost certainly not cope with (a) the lack of respect, (b) the lack of knowledgeable users (c) the numbers of users per PC and (d) the number of users trying to circumvent security measures and vandalise equipment. Present company excepted, there are very few experienced and skilled IT professionals in schools, but a large number in industry who cut their teeth (read "broke stuff") in schools before moving on to industry, leaving patched together undocumented systems to be rebroken by the new recruits. School ICT systems cannot become truly better unless developed by knowledgeable people working to a strategy developed by the knowledgeable people in consultation with the teaching staff over long periods of time. Refusing to consider that IT professionals need to be paid reasonably if they are to stay long enough for strategies to be developed, and also treated as the professionals they are (or should be), will result in much money being wasted over and over again. Our money. Commercially I was always against out-sourcing. In education, maybe an out-sourced education ICT support service is the only way. Any takers? Chris Puttick IT Manager Central Manchester City Learning Centre @ Trinity 0161 212 1972/70 -----Original Message----- From: Robb Bloomfield To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Sent: 10/30/01 11:55 AM Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Techies > Bear in mind that this is a private school - in LEA controlled schools > you'd be lucky to get 10K for a part time, term time only position, > probably requiring you to do much of that work, manage the entire > network and run the MIS system! Just over actually, I'm on £12,000 for 42 weeks. And yes, I do it all (bar SIMS)... > So, I wonder why we do it? Well, it's experience, it pays the rent, and it was an ideal job for a school leaver, who'd already helped run the network as a student.... so a big thanks to the RLS. Robb

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Network Card for thin clients?
by Paul Munro 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

Anyone here know which network card would be best used to try out thin client networking on my home LAN running from (probably) an old P90 or similar, around 16-32MB RAM? What other software do I need to get this to run? Thanks! Paul

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Linux in Schools
by Michael Treacy 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

Here are a few links that I have: 1. http://www.slip.net/~brk/linuxedpp.htm 2. http://www.thestuph.com/litc/resources.html 3. http://www.riverdale.k12.or.us/linux/ 4. http://www.seul.org/edu/links.html I had another good one on Linux Software, but I can't find it at the mo. Mike -- http://www.iol.ie

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Techies
by Edgehill e-mail service 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

---------- .From: Robb Bloomfield <rbloomfield(a)royallatin.schoolzone.co.uk> .To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com .Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Techies .Date: 30 October 2001 11:55 . .> Bear in mind that this is a private school - in LEA controlled schools .> you'd be lucky to get 10K for a part time, term time only position, .> probably requiring you to do much of that work, manage the entire .> network and run the MIS system! . .Just over actually, I'm on £12,000 for 42 weeks. And yes, I do it all (bar .SIMS)... . I get an allowance for teaching a couple of (A-level) classes and 6 weeks (paid) leave. I do the whole lot otherwise, and am ably assisted by a small number of pupils destined fot the industry. .> So, I wonder why we do it? .Well, it's experience, it pays the rent, and it was an ideal job for a .school leaver, who'd already helped run the network as a student.... so a .big thanks to the RLS. In my case, I wanted to move to the West Couuntry, and was willing to accept a (66%) cut in pay to do it. After 20+ years in the computer industry, the other rats had begun to look like usable protein! <g> Apart from that, I get to play with computers all day! Regards, Paul Ellison .Robb

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Techies
by Michael Treacy 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

Hi, Over here in Ireland, we don't HAVE the luxury of Technicians at all!!! I have a "post of reponsibilty" in my school which makes me head of I.T. and also a techie of sorts. For this, I have to make sure that both the admin network and student network stay up and running, fix dodgy pc's (we have a contract with a company for this, but they're not always available when you need them "yesterday!"). I've also got the job of looking after the MIS system that the admin and management use. I also have to make sure things work for after-school groups that use our facilities - Adult Education and also Active Retirement Group. Plus tidy up after them when they "mess" with the machines. And all this for something like £2500 a year! Ok, it's on top of a teachers salary, but I don't get any time given to me for this job, so it's after-school, between classes and lunch times too. Mike --- There are two major products to come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. -- http://www.iol.ie

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Techies
by Robb Bloomfield 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

> Bear in mind that this is a private school - in LEA controlled schools > you'd be lucky to get 10K for a part time, term time only position, > probably requiring you to do much of that work, manage the entire > network and run the MIS system! Just over actually, I'm on £12,000 for 42 weeks. And yes, I do it all (bar SIMS)... > So, I wonder why we do it? Well, it's experience, it pays the rent, and it was an ideal job for a school leaver, who'd already helped run the network as a student.... so a big thanks to the RLS. Robb

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Techies
by Simon Davies 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

Problem being though in areas like Carmarthenshire or Pembrokeshire 10-16k is about average if not above average. Pembs council last year were looking for a part time IT bod to work 16 hours a week for 5.5k The job was taken. The average wage in these parts is about 120 squid. I totally agree about all industries forgetting to reward their support staff...... ---------------------------------- Simon Davies System Manager Queen Elizabeth Cambria School Tel : 01267 236451 Fax : 01267 238224 http://www.satproj.org.uk/~cambria ---------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Alan Harris [mailto:alanh@bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk] Sent: 30 October 2001 11:20 To: Azrael AoD Cc: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Technician needed Hi All, Welcome to the wonderful world of education! Bear in mind that this is a private school - in LEA controlled schools you'd be lucky to get 10K for a part time, term time only position, probably requiring you to do much of that work, manage the entire network and run the MIS system! Unfortunately, The government is more interested in pandering to (IMHO whinging) teachers problems / wages than that of support and admin staff - this may sound sexist but if it was not for young/middle aged mothers wanting to get back into the world of work after having children then the countries education system would fall apart - also, bear in mind that most of these would be paid less than 10K p.a. and unable to claim benefit during the holiday periods. In all probability a schools entire support and admin department probably earns less in a year than your average Headteacher and two deputies..... So, I wonder why we do it? Alan ---------------------------------- Simon Davies System Manager Queen Elizabeth Cambria School Tel : 01267 236451 Fax : 01267 238224 http://www.satproj.org.uk/~cambria ----------------------------------

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