Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] PostgreSQL and Linux / Windows
Many thanks... I have considered DB2 but the problem is cost (as a Lotus site DB2 would be great). Eventually I intend to have the whole thing running as a 'web based' operation to make the front end "teacher friendly". I have accessed the PostgreSQL server from another linux box using the Kpsql client without any problem so it's obviously a windows thing. I actually intend to use Perl to generate, execute and return the results from queries submitted via HTML - tests indicate that it will work here quite well. My interest in the windows clients was based on not having to teach admin staff how to use Linux! However, I don't think that such an exercise would be a bad thing. If it wasn't for the lack of CD ROM based materials for education based on Linux then I could change the entire network over to Linux 'tomorrow' so to speak. (slightly off track here but) Our school was criticised by our latest school inspection for it's lack of CD ROM use. Despite (in my judgement) potential Y2K issues with old dos based roms and despite the fact that we have school wide internet access. In fact, the Inspector concerned would'nt even speak to me about the network and wasn't interested in anything to do with non-teaching staff! How do we overcome such issues as this? What do schools already using Linux throughout do about such issues - I'd really like to know. Alan Harris Network Manager Bryngwyn School alanh@bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk Malcolm wrote:
hi Alan
But.... in the mean time, anyone know anything about linking SQL clients to backend databases via TCP/IP? (before I start some really intensive reading and research that is...)
haven't done it with PostgreSQL, but with MySQL using the MyODBC drivers from Access clients. I believe that the issues would be the same with PostgreSQL, their are the drivers. The things to watch for: security permissions, the ODBC drivers require a username/password to access the DB, so if it is to read/write/delete etc etc you have to remember its client machine, rather than user-based (?) the ODBC management tools were a bit flaky, we use the web-based tools, in particular phpMyAdmin (theres one for Postgres aswell).
we have tended to use web-base interfaces rather than ODBC clients lattertly, easy to set up and use, with JSP and PHP.
if you want any more info, contact me direct. There are a number of reasons of choosing PostgreSQL over MySQL (including the license), but there seems to be wider support for clients and tools for MySQL. Have you considered DB2 ?
Malc ------------------------------- Dr Malcolm Herbert Head of Technology R&D, Becta 02476 847126 Mob: 07801 612438 -------------------------------
Many thanks...
(slightly off track here but) Our school was criticised by our latest school inspection for it's lack of CD ROM use. Despite (in my judgement) potential Y2K issues with old dos based roms and despite the fact that we have school wide internet access. In fact, the Inspector concerned would'nt even speak to me about the network and wasn't interested in anything to do with non-teaching staff! How do we overcome such issues as this?
Much the same thing happened in our recent inspection. IIRC the only member of non teaching staff who any inspectors actually talked to was the librarian. Similarly a recent LEA survey was only especially interested in computer access for teaching staff. -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763
On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Alan Harris wrote:
Many thanks...
I have considered DB2 but the problem is cost (as a Lotus site DB2 would be great).
A fine DB from big blue - one of the heavyweights, with a price to reflect this unfortunately. I'm going to IBM tomorrow to see the rest of their offerings.
Eventually I intend to have the whole thing running as a 'web based' operation to make the front end "teacher friendly". I have accessed the PostgreSQL server from another linux box using the Kpsql client without any problem so it's obviously a windows thing.
I actually intend to use Perl to generate, execute and return the results from queries submitted via HTML - tests indicate that it will work here quite well. My interest in the windows clients was based on not having to teach admin staff how to use Linux!
This is an excellent way to develop applications. As most people with a computer have experience of a browser, the learning curve for the new application is shorter. The application is platform independant, and can be deployed across the internet ior an intranet if required. Applications are also fairly future-proof and should be low maintainence (I've lost count of code-rewrites needed for VB 'upgrades'). People who are using just one application for large volumes of work still prefer a 'hard-coded' client, but can't see this being a problem in education. I haven't tried it yet, but KSql (which is compatible with PostgreSQL via a plugin) has a further plugin to convert KSql forms to HTML using 3 lines of PHP. You may have already evaluated this and rejected it, but it does look like it could be a potential development-time saver. An advantage of this is that you can always still use Perl when you want or need to.
However, I don't think that such an exercise would be a bad thing. If it wasn't for the lack of CD ROM based materials for education based on Linux then I could change the entire network over to Linux 'tomorrow' so to speak.
It is a shame that the materials are not authored in such a way as to have an HTML front end. This would give most of the advantages outlined above. The only problem then is that the materials are easily transferred to the Internet, .. The arguement for this is not just for Linux, but also for next generation (or are they here already?) Games Consoles which have CD and a browser, and for operating systems which are not as common as Linux, such as BEOS, Macs etc. The aim should be any application for any platform, which is becoming the goal for the corporate world.
Many thanks...
I have considered DB2 but the problem is cost (as a Lotus site DB2 would be great).
Eventually I intend to have the whole thing running as a 'web based' operation to make the front end "teacher friendly". I have accessed the PostgreSQL server from another linux box using the Kpsql client without any problem so it's obviously a windows thing.
I actually intend to use Perl to generate, execute and return the results from queries submitted via HTML - tests indicate that it will work here quite well. My interest in the windows clients was based on not having to teach admin staff how to use Linux!
However, I don't think that such an exercise would be a bad thing. If it wasn't for the lack of CD ROM based materials for education based on Linux then I could change the entire network over to Linux 'tomorrow' so to speak.
(slightly off track here but) Our school was criticised by our latest school inspection for it's lack of CD ROM use. Despite (in my judgement) potential Y2K issues with old dos based roms and despite the fact that we have school wide internet access. In fact, the Inspector concerned would'nt even speak to me about the network and wasn't interested in anything to do with non-teaching staff! How do we overcome such issues as this?
What do schools already using Linux throughout do about such issues - I'd really like to know.
Alan Harris Network Manager Bryngwyn School alanh@bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk
Malcolm wrote:
hi Alan
But.... in the mean time, anyone know anything about linking SQL clients to backend databases via TCP/IP? (before I start some really intensive reading and research that is...)
haven't done it with PostgreSQL, but with MySQL using the MyODBC drivers from Access clients. I believe that the issues would be the same with PostgreSQL, their are the drivers. The things to watch for: security permissions, the ODBC drivers require a username/password to access the DB, so if it is to read/write/delete etc etc you have to remember its client machine, rather than user-based (?) the ODBC management tools were a bit flaky, we use the web-based tools, in particular phpMyAdmin (theres one for Postgres aswell).
we have tended to use web-base interfaces rather than ODBC clients lattertly, easy to set up and use, with JSP and PHP.
if you want any more info, contact me direct. There are a number of reasons of choosing PostgreSQL over MySQL (including the license), but there seems to be wider support for clients and tools for MySQL. Have you considered DB2 ?
Malc ------------------------------- Dr Malcolm Herbert Head of Technology R&D, Becta 02476 847126 Mob: 07801 612438 ------------------------------- --
Just a thought, there was a dem about databases/adminstering databases the other month at MANLUG. The package used was called IIRC Omni Studio (?) Completely platform free and a good frontend to most Dbs, especially SQL. Alan Harris wrote, On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 paul If a conjunction met a pronoun, what would his/her name be?
From my experience of Omnis, it is mainly used for producing 'cross-platform' applications produced by Mac developers.
OT: Bit more about my experience:- I spent a large sum of money (for me) for a binary-only Omnis CD application containing over 500mb of data which was a nightmare to query. Took less than 3 hours from receiving in post, and by accident finding all the data in CSV format on my hard disk :) Useful tool for administering databases may be the Perl-based Orac, although I'm not sure if this has been that widely ported to DBs other than Oracle, and unfortunately I've lost the URL. All searches have turned up far too much info. about Blakes 7 so far :) Picked up a copy of DB2 Enterprise developers edition from IBM today at the joint IBM/RH effort . It was nice to see real techies giving demos of software that they were genuinely proud of. I got the impression that they were free downloads as well for the entry editions. For those interested (anyone?) check out: Visual Age for Java Websphere Application Server ( a Java servlet Apache module). Good starting point to find the downloads would be http://www.ibm.com/linux/ Nice breakfast and lunch at IBM too :) Finally, for those to whom this applies, have a nice break! Clive. On Thu, 13 Jul 2000, you wrote:
Just a thought, there was a dem about databases/adminstering databases the other month at MANLUG. The package used was called IIRC Omni Studio (?) Completely platform free and a good frontend to most Dbs, especially SQL.
Many thans all, After a little reading and some downloading of software I have a running PostgreSQL server, access from my linux systems to the server, and access to the PostgreSQL databases on the server via PostODBC and Lotus Approach from Windows systems. The only thing I can say is that I wish I'd started this approach two years ago! I've also managed to access the databases via Perl so I feel like I'm really getting somewhere. Reasons for using PostgreSQL over MYSQL are mainly concerned with the transaction capabilities of the software. I have the IBM packages for Linux but haven't yet had time to look at them. I now (more than previously) believe that the open source is the only way forward for schools, and look forward to meeting most of you at the OSE Seminar in Coventry for a really good discussion time! Alan Harris Network Manager Bryngwyn School alanh@bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk Paul Hornshaw wrote:
Just a thought, there was a dem about databases/adminstering databases the other month at MANLUG. The package used was called IIRC Omni Studio (?) Completely platform free and a good frontend to most Dbs, especially SQL.
Many thanks...
I have considered DB2 but the problem is cost (as a Lotus site DB2 would be great).
Eventually I intend to have the whole thing running as a 'web based' operation to make the front end "teacher friendly". I have accessed the PostgreSQL server from another linux box using the Kpsql client without any problem so it's obviously a windows thing.
I actually intend to use Perl to generate, execute and return the results from queries submitted via HTML - tests indicate that it will work here quite well. My interest in the windows clients was based on not having to teach admin staff how to use Linux!
However, I don't think that such an exercise would be a bad thing. If it wasn't for the lack of CD ROM based materials for education based on Linux then I could change the entire network over to Linux 'tomorrow' so to speak.
(slightly off track here but) Our school was criticised by our latest school inspection for it's lack of CD ROM use. Despite (in my judgement) potential Y2K issues with old dos based roms and despite the fact that we have school wide internet access. In fact, the Inspector concerned would'nt even speak to me about the network and wasn't interested in anything to do with non-teaching staff! How do we overcome such issues as this?
What do schools already using Linux throughout do about such issues - I'd really like to know.
Alan Harris Network Manager Bryngwyn School alanh@bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk
Malcolm wrote:
hi Alan
But.... in the mean time, anyone know anything about linking SQL clients to backend databases via TCP/IP? (before I start some really intensive reading and research that is...)
haven't done it with PostgreSQL, but with MySQL using the MyODBC drivers from Access clients. I believe that the issues would be the same with PostgreSQL, their are the drivers. The things to watch for: security permissions, the ODBC drivers require a username/password to access the DB, so if it is to read/write/delete etc etc you have to remember its client machine, rather than user-based (?) the ODBC management tools were a bit flaky, we use the web-based tools, in particular phpMyAdmin (theres one for Postgres aswell).
we have tended to use web-base interfaces rather than ODBC clients lattertly, easy to set up and use, with JSP and PHP.
if you want any more info, contact me direct. There are a number of reasons of choosing PostgreSQL over MySQL (including the license), but there seems to be wider support for clients and tools for MySQL. Have you considered DB2 ?
Malc ------------------------------- Dr Malcolm Herbert Head of Technology R&D, Becta 02476 847126 Mob: 07801 612438 ------------------------------- --
Alan Harris wrote, On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 paul
If a conjunction met a pronoun, what would his/her name be?
participants (4)
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Alan Harris -
Clive Jones -
Mark Evans -
Paul Hornshaw