March 2001 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Do we have the notes about the OSE meeting online ?
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 19 Mar '01

19 Mar '01

I may have missed the announcement (the list has been a little busy :-) but are there any notes about the OSE meeting on-line anywhere ? Also, I suggested that we post to LWN and Seul/Edu once the notes are available, and no one objected - so should I assume that I am cleared by the (OSE) group to do this ? (It will be a simple announcement, linking off to the meeting results). Thanks, Kevin.

1 0

Creatusers [Phil]
by paul.munro1 19 Mar '01

19 Mar '01

Excellent tool! I'll be downloading it and giving it a try over this week sometime. This is just what the doctor ordered for central admin of a SAMBA network, and could definitely save a lot of time for the administrators of those school networks who wish to try SAMBA out. If it seems to be OK (which I'm sure it will ;-) then I'll pass the link around to friends etc. Keep up the work! Paul

1 0

Createusers for Apache, MySQL, Samba
by Phil 18 Mar '01

18 Mar '01

Hi everybody I'm pleased to announce my greatly improved version of 'createusers', a console tool which sets up users in bulk. For each new user, createusers now sets up some or all of the following facilities: - Login account and home directory - Personal webspace through the local Apache web server - MySQL database account on the local or remote MySQL server - Samba file sharing account on the local Samba server. The facilities set up for new users can be enabled selectively using the createusers configuration file. Users can be removed using the supplied 'removeusers' utility. The login, MySQL and Samba password of any user can be changed using 'updateuserpasswd'. This can be used to provide PHP and MySQL enabled personal webspace to all the pupils in a school. Users can also access their 'home directory' Samba file share, and other Samba shares, depending on the permissions in the Samba server. Createusers is a Bourne Again Shell (bash) shell script licenced under the GPL. I have tested it successfully on Red Hat 6.0, 7.0, Suse 6.2 and Turbo Linux 6.0, so I think (but am not absolutely certain) the code is now stable. I'd like to encourage everyone to download it, try it out, look at the code and let me know of any errors or problems you find. I'll very much appreciate any feedback. :-) The createusers homepage is: http://www.lfsp.org/ For the impatient, the direct download URL is: http://www.lfsp.org/tarred/createusers-1.2.tar.gz I'd like to add support for Squid user accounts, and a number of other features which I've listed in the TODO file in the distribution. Can anyone help? If so please do let me know, either through the list or directly. Best wishes Phil Jones phil(a)lfsp.org Linux for Schools Project

1 0

Anyone want to install a file server?
by Mr Miles Berry 18 Mar '01

18 Mar '01

Back to the notion of promoting Linux as the ideal file/multi-use server for the smaller school... A message posted today on another list to which I subscribe invites suggestions for firms to provide a file server for a prep school in Kent. I don't know much more about there set-up. I plan to respond and say how brilliantly and cheaply a Linux box running Samba would do the job, but it would be nice if I could point my counterpart there in the direction of a firm who could set it up and provide any necessary support in case this school didn't want, or didn't have the expertise (!), to do it themselves. What do you reckon folks? Any takers? Miles Berry Deputy Head St Ives School, Haslemere www.st-ives.surrey.sch.uk

2 1

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] education versus training: a rant about wordprocessors
by Michael Brown 18 Mar '01

18 Mar '01

On Sat, 17 Mar 2001, Damian Counsell wrote: > LaTeX forces you to organize your writing and, inevitably, your > thinking in a hierarchical way, from the largest logical blocks to the > smallest. > <snip> > Almost as depressing as the stream-of-consciousness guff some students > produce instead of real writing is the time they waste futzing around > with fonts and layouts to make their drivel "look nice". Schools > should be teaching children that good writing is a craft not an art. > Only by mastering your craft can you produce art---and just because > you've used lots of colours doesn't mean you've made a work of art. Just wanted to add that LyX is a "GUI version of LaTeX", so you get all the benefits of LaTeX while retaining the ease of use of a graphical tool. And it's very difficult to fiddle around with the fonts and layout! Michael Brown Fen Systems Ltd.

1 0

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Thinking Ahead.... Notes from a small school
by M Read 17 Mar '01

17 Mar '01

> With regards to the discussion about putting Linux on the clients and using > the free Linux software out there. My main problem Ive found is both the > students and staff all want to take their work home and do it, then either > email it or bring it in to finish off in break times. Hi I face a similar situation here. It`s slightly different in that management here see paying for software licenses as "dead money" and so it can be politically hard to get across why you need to pay 99 quid to use Office 200, 30 quid for the OS, and whatever for CALS etc. As we are moving down a terminal server/citrix route in parts of the school just to get near obsolete beige boxes usable, the only chance for linux here is as the host client on the desktop, though in effect all we`ve created is a kind of "internet appliance" as students really only crave the "quick hit buzz" of fast internet access(the awfull open access that occurs in lunch breaks here at least means they can`t download windows specific games/messaging stuff like crazy if restricted to using the linux client). But giving them a full linux client at least would allow the exploration of alternative OS`s with the sad inevitability that at some point the demands of the vast majority of only moderately IT litera! te staff will mean they`re gonna hit the logon icon to bring up a windows2000/Nt terminal session. We have Macs here too, so I see linux as part of a variety of OS "experiences/choices" (That sounds so "hippy-chic"...I guess if the macs move to OSX it`ll be almost a user friendly unix client). I`m not keen on a one size fits all approach-there are still fervant riscOs supporters here but students aren`t keen because "it`s not what I use at home".However they love the macs because it`s a different user experience and has a few killer apps, I-movie being the prime one. I guess if Linux had a killer-app (and I`m sorry, but staroffice is NOT a killer app, maybe "The Gimp", and photogenics when it`s released-both art progs!!) then it`d have a better chance of making a dent on the desktop. Kind Regards to all -- Network Admin Icknield High School Beds Mobile/Sms: 0794 1929038 ------------------------------------------------------------ This e-mail is intended for the addressee shown. It contains information that is confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons or unauthorized employees of the intended organisations is strictly prohibited. The contents of this email do not necessarily represent the views or policies of Icknield High School, it's employees or students. ___________________________________ Why do elephants 'flap' their ears? Find out at schoolmaster.net http://answers.schoolmaster.net/quiz?id=11

2 1

RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Thinking Ahead.... Notes from a small school
by Mr Miles Berry 17 Mar '01

17 Mar '01

The software we use, like many (most) schools for under 11s, falls into two groups. The first and most important is essentially cut down versions of applications software, although we do use MS Office for staff and the older girls. Much of the functionality of this software is available under Linux, although the various interfaces are, I feel, far too complex for our younger girls. The software we use at present: Clicker: Word processing/multimedia authoring using grids with words and pictures to select; writes HTML Dazzle: Bitmap editing with simple & customizable toolbars Super Logo: Logo programming My world: 'Fuzzy felt' drag and drop pictures and text Junior Pin Point: Simple database for statistics investigations; questionnaire design, data collection and analysis Geometer's Sketchpad: Interactive geometry - angles, areas, construction, transformations Text Ease: Word processing with speech and graphics; writes HTML MS Office: WP, Spreadsheet, relational database, presentation graphics MS Publisher: Easy way to produce visually stunning (if all rather similar) web pages, leaflets, etc. Corel Draw: Vector graphics Corel Photo-paint:Image manipulation I am aware that there are Open Source variants of these latter standard applications, but I will still get the argument from colleagues and parents that the Linux version isn't what the they and the girls are used to at home. Not an insurmountable argument but there would still be some resistance. The second category is the huge number of CD ROMs and older education specific programs. A lot of these are beyond the traditional drill & practice type of program and include open ended, problem solving and investigative opportunities. My colleagues all have there own favourites, but a few of those presently in use: Dorling Kindersley, I love maths: Various multimedia maths games, similarly for spelling and science Thomas the Clown: Multimedia problem solving activities - ordering, patterns etc. A variety of talking books Dorling Kindersley geography, history and science reference CD ROMS Still a fair few drill & practice programs for spelling (Star Spell) and arithmetic MS Encarta: Encyclopaedia, atlas, dictionary. An exhaustive list, even for just St Ives would be fairly lengthy. To get an idea of the vast range available see http://besd.becta.org.uk/ As to Michael's query about the market for Linux servers, whilst I'm aware that many state primaries have received NGfL funds to put an NT server solution in place, there are many more that have not (yet), and prep schools such as ourselves don't get NGfL money and have no LEAs making decisions or giving advice. According to the DfEE, the 'average' primary school has 17.8 PCs, but only 5.2 connected to any sort of network (http://www.dfee.gov.uk/statistics/DB/SBU/b0197/sb07-2000.pdf). A Linux box like the one suggested would transform existing peer-peer or stand alone hardware, and as he points out, would not be difficult to implement. It is harder to make money out of this if it's as easy as it should be, but this has never stopped RM. Miles Berry Deputy Head St Ives School, Haslemere www.st-ives.surrey.sch.uk -----Original Message----- From: Mark Evans [mailto:mpe@st-peters-high.devon.sch.uk] Sent: 16 March 2001 16:43 To: Michael Brown Cc: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Thinking Ahead.... Notes from a small school Importance: High > On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Mr Miles Berry wrote: > > > My Key Stage 1 & 2 colleagues currently expect a range of education > > specific titles to be available, which are only at present available > > for Windows - OK VMWare and WINE mean these can be run under Linux but > > that's kind of defeating the object IMHO. Given time then I'm sure the > > functionality of these programs will be available under Linux or, > > preferably, via the web. > > Could you describe the education software that you use? Titles alone will > not mean much to me, but if you can give me a description then I can start > someone searching for Linux-based or web-based equivalents. It would be useful if this kind of information compiled into a support database. i.e. software people are actually using against open source equivalents. Miles Berry Deputy Head St Ives School, Haslemere www.st-ives.surrey.sch.uk

6 7

Thinking Ahead.... A School Technicians / Network Managers point of view
by Alan Harris 17 Mar '01

17 Mar '01

So, good meeting and the debates have begun. How to push Linux & Open Source (Free software) in schools :- Firstly (I'm going to get this off my chest now) Don't antagonise school technicians - I wouldn't give a thank you for a managed service - I might as well go work for EDS as work in a school with a managed service. So you can run Linux remotely for £50 which is great I admit. However, you are reducing the technicians role to that of someone who puts cartridges in printers and cleans mice. There's a lot more to the role than you might think. The reason schools don't have technicians is that they can't pay the going rate for experienced techies because LEAS won't give them adequete budgets. I happen to be V. Lucky where I work and am paid quite well (approx. 17K p.a.). I've also built the current network, installed the servers and workstations and would like to move to Linux BUT - if you want to cost my time on a TCO basis then you can forget any hope of my using, considering or deploying Linux. Unless you've done this job don't knock it on a TCO basis - you need schools techies to make this work and threatening them with cost based analysis will just make you and Linux lots of enemies. Schools need decent techies, after all are Fen systems going to travel 250 miles to fix a malfunctioning computer system? How many schools were represented last Monday?, three of the delegates were from one LEA. Businesses can't take the lead in this - OSE needs to ask schools what they want from Linux. I can demonstrate what it can do easily enough but I have to convince teachers that it will work and that they can use it. So, we need to produce decent training materials based on what opensource has to offer, and where there appears to be no alternative we need to use the appropriate M$/Apple platform. Some examples of this software would be :- Spreadsheets: Gnumeric, Kspread, Siag, Xspread Word Processing: Gnuedit, Abiword, Maxwell Graphics: Paint, Xpaint, GIMP Databases: quicklist (www.quicklist.org - ms works / appleworks db lookalike but better of course!) Misc: Dia, Qcad (see Fen systems web site) Internet: Netscape, Mozilla etc and of course, StarOffice for the big stuff. I've tried to stay in a 'windows' like environment so teachers would not get 'scared' by the different desktop (X, as opposed to M$/MacOS). Should we really be 'teaching' pupils to use any single OS? surely it's better to use multiple OS's throughout the school, each OS in the place / subject to which it is best suited. Surely this way our children will learn what they need to know - transferable skills not packages. It's no use M$ bashing only, we need to convince all levels of education that teaching packages is not the answer to this countrys IT problems! Are you absolutly convinced that Thin client is the best way - remember, no server, no network. What is needed in school networks is redundancy, no matter what environment / OS is being used. You don't get that with thin clients and that's why I don't use and would not consider them. A mixture of thick & thin (and possibly just lean?) clients would be better. That's why managed services are not necessarily better than school techies! Anyway, that's enough for now (I've had my little rant so i'll sit back and wait for the flames!) - I apologise in advance is if unknowingly insulted anybody but I do feel that we need to operate om a much broader base than is currently being discussed. I've got more to say but I think it's better to stop here.... Alan ----------------------------------------------------- Alan Harris Network Manager Bryngwyn School Tel : 01554 750661 Fax : 01554 758255 E-mail: alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch ----------------------------------------------------- Notes: 1. The contents of this email may be snooped on by interested government parties for unknown purposes! Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000. 2. The opinions expressed in this email are personal and may not be shared by Bryngwyn School. -----------------------------------------------------

4 11

Thinking Ahead...Notes from a small school
by paul.munro1 17 Mar '01

17 Mar '01

This is a subject I often had discussions about with my network manager and head-teacher. It would appear to me anyway that it would be far better to teach students "word processing" rather than "word", since these are not synonymous. It would be better to teach students the fundamentals of programming instead of Visual C++ by a certain proprietary software house. To give students access to "base" technology and then have them fitted for adapting to new technologies building on that base and foundation would be far better than letting them think that Microsoft applications *are* office products and programming tools and IT in general. I believe this is where Linux comes into its own. Yes, of course it's a good server platform (the best?); yes it is excellent on the desktop, and fitted for schools in that purpose but to make that happen schools have got to make the jump in the end knowing that from a *technological* point-of-view, Linux will serve the students better than using a proprietary solution. The question has to be in the end- do we want Microsoft engineers or computer engineers? Do we want programmers with languages such as Python and Perl behind them, or programmers who *know* visual basic and Microsoft C++?? Is it *databases* you want to teach or Access? Is it Excel you are feeding the students, or are you teaching them *spreadsheets*?? Which model will best equip the students to adapt to a future IT job market where broad skills are needed, not just specific application skills or even knowledge of one OS. Of course, this is just my opinion :-) Paul

1 0

Under 11s (was: Thinking ahead)
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 16 Mar '01

16 Mar '01

> > Also for the under 11s, > This is a known weakness Definately a problem, as the younger years and early years are much more likely to be wanting multimedia etc which is usually only for Windows or Macs. (although linuxforkids.org.uk and debian Jr help quite a bit here ...) Having said that, nearly all of my families CDs run on win 3.11 - so must try them under Wine ... Again though - only a problem if you want to be completely Linux, and as is showing through from the discussions, this would be quite a way off yet :-) Kevin.

3 2