March 2001 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] OSIE write-up 0.0.1 - OSIE site 0.0.0 .1(!)now on-line
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 20 Mar '01

20 Mar '01

> Sorry if I have offended you, but I do think you are over-reacting > a little Probably - but I have been 'bitten' by organisational problems in the past due to misunderstandings, when working on the lug.org.uk UK Linux User Group pages. There were cases when people were seen to be talking on behalf of all UK user groups, without any of the user group people knowing ! We were all getting 'tarred with the same brush' - and it did no favours to the people who really were the 'UK user groups' - ie the UK user group organisers and members ... I just want things to be clear from the start, that anything *anyone* says in relation to OSIE does actually come from the OSIE 'team' (whatever that means). > I have already stated that I intend to dump what little does > exist onto SourceForge and have asked people who want to > be involved to say so in order that we can start working as a group. Ok - Can I just ask then, that before you do anything with sourceforge, that we get the admin mailing list running, get the people subscribed who are interested in being an active part of osie and then lets get down to details. I proposed sourceforge in an earlier email, but there was no further comment (I think I got lost in the advocacy debates :-) - so this is something I suggest we talk about first on the new list. I would recommend that we use Rogers suse.com, seeing as it already hosts this list - anyone disagree ? I suspect this will just be a temporary list until we have decided how we want to manage the 'real' server. Can I also ask, that noone does anything on behalf of osie without checking with those same people. Until we have a more formal structure in place, the agreement of the people on the list is the next best thing we have (IMO). Right - time to get moving ... :-) Kevin.

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] OSE Discussion structure - moving forward (was: Free as in speech ?)
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 20 Mar '01

20 Mar '01

> OK - do you want to write one or shall I? (or anyone else?) Its your server so it is probably simplest if you do (if everyone else is in agreement). Hopefully it won't need to be there for long :-) It only needs some short text to say that 'things are being decided', probably with the links I suggested ? Kevin.

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] OSIE write-up 0.0.1 - OSIE site 0.0.0.1(!)now on-line
by Michael Brown 20 Mar '01

20 Mar '01

On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Miles Berry wrote: > You need to make clear somewhere the copyleft nature of material on the > site. Agreed. > Aren't you being unduly down beat about DIY solutions? I wasn't intending to - I was trying to reflect the tone of documents such as Kevin Taylor's Schools-HOWTO. Someone else can re-word it. > Do we consider RedHat, SuSE, Debian, etc., Linux Emporium(?) etc., to > be suppliers and, at least in the 1st 3 cases, supporters of this > approach? I would guess it's up to the suppliers themselves which approaches ("specialisations", in the terminology used on the temporary site to avoid any connotations of the word "products") they want to be associated with. > Support details aught to include, at least, usenet, linuxdoc.org, > distributors websites, LUGs, and the SuSE/OSiE list My *personal* opinion on this is that the Knowledge Base should be the first line of support provided by OSIE. This would help to ensure that it does become a useful resource. The KB search results page could perhaps have links to other possible sources of support on it. > You will remember to change the title tags won't you? ;-) They are changed to "OSIE" - it's just the way the website is currently hosted by UK2.net means that they never show up. > You can include St Ives on the list of schools - I'll do a write up when I > have time; the address details and low res logo are on our contact page: > http://www.st-ives.surrey.sch.uk/contact.htm - we are Linux (& Windows), > DIY. EMail me for more details if needed. Thanks - does anyone object if I add these details to the database? Michael

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Free beer! Free Michael Brown!
by Michael Brown 20 Mar '01

20 Mar '01

On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Damian Counsell wrote: > I have to agree with Malcom Herbert that occasionally Michael Brown > gets a bit over-enthusiastic, but I also think that the list would be > a great deal less interesting and informative without him. I can live with that. :-) Michael

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Free beer! Free Michael Brown!
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 20 Mar '01

20 Mar '01

Michael Brown is free (as far as I know :-) > "What have the Microsofties ever done for us?" :-) > If you want my opinion---and the gist of Kevin Taylor's letter > seemed to be that he wanted *everyone's* opinion All opinions are welcome (as far as I am concerned). Actually, I stated that there are already lots of opinions - too many to allow us to focus (IMO) - hence I would like to see the core 'admin team' for OSIE (defined as being all those who want to actually get together and do the work) starting to work together and act together - hence my request for an admin mailing list. Note there are many people who have been working towards OSE already, and we decided (I thought) at the meeting that we *did* want the group and that there are lots of other people who want to be involved. I am just asking that we are given the chance to be involved ... and proposing that since the agreement to form the OSIE organisation, then we start acting as a group - and the 'organisation' can then come into being. > I think the outline Website is a good contribution > which we could very well hash into whatever the > *official* Website becomes. Me to - as I did state in my email. The content is not the issue - and can be easily seen by looking at Michaels fensystems site - the procedure for acting on behalf of OSIE is what I would like to clarify. Kevin.

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] OSIE write-up 0.0.1 - OSIE site 0.0.0 .1(!)now on-line
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 20 Mar '01

20 Mar '01

> OSIE write-up 0.0.1 - OSIE site 0.0.0.1(!)now on-line I think I have missed an email somewhere ... could someone forward a copy of this 'announcment' to me please ? Also - where did this come from ? I don't recall seeing anyone who expressed an interest in being part of OS(I)E being asked in this agreed public forum if it was OK to put up osie.org.uk ... I thought that we had agreed that all discussion about OSIE must take place on the SuSE list until such time as we have our own mailing list ... ? We really MUST act as a group and get the groups agreement for things - there can be no actions taken (in my view) by myself, Roger, Malcolm or anyone else without the consensus of the OSE group as it stands today - this has to be the case otherwise it will not be seen as an independent organisation. Who authorised the publication of the site as osie.org.uk with this content ? As far as I can see it has not come from the interested parties present at the meeting - I remember no action to 'put up a temporary OSIE web site'. The site is good, the content is good, but we have to be acting as a group otherwise what is the point ? Also - Michael, how are you justified in using an email address of mbrown(a)osie.org.uk when this has not been discussed ? I appologise to Michael for the tone of this email - but I feel that this is all a bit premature and not involving the other people who strongly want to be involved. I myself was going to create a Virtual Schools LUG web site and Malcolm has been running ose.org.uk for sometime, but we all agreed not to do anything until we had the meeting - and now we find that suddenly, this new site has come into being without any of us being involved ! Especially when I thought it was obvious from the meeting that there are many people who *do* want to be involved. Kevin.

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Sorry, we MUST buy Microsoft.
by Mr J W Philpott 20 Mar '01

20 Mar '01

I've been sitting here looking at all the postings and have felt the stirings of an odd nostalgia, all the great arguments remind me of the Acorn lobby. Having at last been allowed to dump the old A3000 acorns I no longer have to listen to people banging on about how god they were. I've played about with LINUX a bit but can not spare the time to work out how it all works. I am a teacher who, with the current state of things, gets 2 frees out of 30 a week (which I generally use to support others using ICT). I do not have the time to learn. As a head of ICT I have 1 ex-army technician who is self taught. We could not afford anyone who is LINUX able. I've spent many hours trying to get Apache/Squid to work, only to work out eventually that it was the addressing system forced on us by the old Acorn kit that stopped Squid from working. On the other hand it took me a couple of hours to get Apache running on an WIN98 box. The nice people at Tiny came in and set up our NT server for use and answered all our questions about adding another one. All the software installs itself and runs. WINSUIT keeps the little dears out and the OS in and if anything goes wrong we Ghost it all back. If I was foolish enough to want to go my own way, I would return to the sad old Acorns because they atleast worked straight out of the box. OK you lot, fire ;-) Jamie On Sat, 17 Mar 2001 16:37:10 +0000 (GMT) "Alan Davies" <staff.asd(a)birkenhead.wirral.sch.uk> wrote: > *This message was transferred with a trial version of > CommuniGate(tm) Pro* > OK I heared the arguments... > > I largely agree with the arguments... > > But I think the arguments are not about the issues > which others....and yes, myself too...feel are the > necessary ones to consider. > > I have no problem with Star Office....neither would > others. I have no problem wih K desktop.... > I agree - we are 'Educating' not training.... > > BUT > > Pupils need to use current MS tools NOW - not just when > they leave school...in many other subject areas > than IT. > > You only need to take one look at programs like > 'crocodile physics, technology, chemistry' to be > converted. They are simply fantastic compared to > anything (are there isn't much) to satisfy CAL. > > The 'control' programs for Data logging....all require > MS OS. > > Publisher (....and I hate it....much prefer my Acorn > copy of !Style) is everywhere...integrates very nicely > with other MS packages (just as well because it > doesn't have much else going for it) but it simply > doesn't > have a convenient way of transfering material to LINUX > platform. > > I might well migrate by NT servers to LINUX... > > I might well change my Netscape proxy server to LINUX > (although I've > never managed to get the MS proxy client software > (winsock proxy) > to work with anything but MS server). > > I might change my Email server to LINUX...especially as > its the > same box as my proxy. > > I certainly run Xserver clients on my PCs to give access > to > a differen't OS....a multiuser OS.... > > I use telnet and introduce some C programming as a > change > to Visual Basic (again....nothing anywhere near as good > for LINUX.. > and yes, I'd be first to agree that VB has its problems) > > You could use CITRIX to deliver MS interface to LINUX > clients...but > I'd say that was only to be resorted too when really > necessary. Sound > and moving graphics are pretty slow, and CITRIX is > expensive. A Terminal > Server Client for LINUX would be attractive but I can't > see MS doing/Allowing > that. > > Add to that the dearth of 'cheap' (sorry) LINUX capable > technicians, > the dearth of teaching staff that have any familiarity > with LINUX (in fact > there is dearth of IT capable staff) and the > desktop battle is lost - except for niche schools and or > workstations > within a school. > > > > > -- > Alan Davies > Head of Computing > Birkenhead School > J W Philpott Head of ICT Charles Burrell High School, Thetford, Norfolk Sat, 17 Mar 2001 16:37:10 +0000 (GMT)

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Free as in speech?
by paul.munro1 20 Mar '01

20 Mar '01

Michael Brown wrote: "If you would like some free advice, with no strings attached, then please e-mail me direct or repost the question in a free [1] forum such as the Usenet newsgroup uk.education.schools-it." [1] in the sense of "free speech", not "free beer" ------- Am I to imply from this that you have been told that you cannot exercise "free speech" on this forum or only that you cannot push your particular business offerings here? Just interested. Paul

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OSIE conference pics
by Mike Robinson 19 Mar '01

19 Mar '01

I've uploaded the digital camera photos I took at the OSIE conference. Get them at: http://www.btinternet.com/~mike_r/ -- Mike Robinson

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Sorry, we MUST buy Microsoft.
by Mr G M Locock 19 Mar '01

19 Mar '01

On Mon, 19 Mar, Malcolm Herbert wrote: > hmmmm > > > > Does Apache run on Windows? I thought it was Linux only?? > > > yep, wouldn't run it on Windows. > > > Could I suggest you look at Navaho, for full Linux support. > > > completely non open source, the opposite to Apache, no benefits from > community support, although it is a fair product. Fair point. It costs; though does the same job, approx. Personally I was glad of the support when first confronted with Linux. I imagine that the learning-curve of Linux /plus/ Apache all at once would be too steep for many. Pay for Navaho, and you will get all the software set up and ready, and all the support you need. From the sound of it, the respondent needed some! You pays yer money... Gary -- G M Locock, Network Manager Bablake Junior School, Coundon Road, Coventry, UK, CV1 4AU Tel: (+44) 24 7663 4052; Fax: (+44) 24 7663 3290 Web: http://www.bablakejs.co.uk Email: gml(a)bablakejs.co.uk

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