December 2003 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Open Source pr Propriety
by Chris Puttick 02 Dec '03

02 Dec '03

There's still Tim Fletcher in the highly paid and competent department (and his team for the competent)! Back here in industry, we're banking on school's being unable/unwilling to pay the going rate to employ their own experts (and LEA's often seemingly unable but not for financial reasons... (members of the list exempted!)). The company offers a fully managed support service all the way up from individual printers to whole site; this of course costs schools (and companies, councils, NHS trusts etc.), but provides them with access to a whole team of experts, many of whom are paid more than an individual school would consider paying IT support staff (and we don't even append manager to their title!). I'm fairly certain this is the way forward for schools, particularly those unwilling to pay market rates. I'm also fairly certain that Phil's original statistic was essentially correct - high quality security can not be bought off-the-shelf; it requires expertise to implement and manage effectively. Most LEAs/councils don't have access to that level of expertise, let alone schools. Where they have, I'm sure the solution proffered to schools via their local grid is much more flexible e.g. everything closed as a norm, ports opened on and redirected on rational request. Cheers Chris -----Original Message----- From: Phil Driscoll [mailto:phil@dialsolutions.co.uk] Sent: 02 December 2003 12:46 To: ICT Support Officer Cc: SuSe Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Open Source pr Propriety On Tuesday 02 December 2003 12:25, ICT Support Officer wrote: > I can knock them all as far as I can throw them. Just a question for > you -> When you and millions of others are connecting to their > broadband service from home or office do they not have full access to > all the ports. I am in fact running my own mail and web servers from > home using my broadband connection. Why should schools be an > exception. All the ISp's are doing is providing a pipe between you and > the Internet. I think you missed the point here I don't think so. I'm sure that you have a setup like mine. My ADSL line goes into a smoothwall box which I keep fully patched and monitor the logs. All my machines behind that firewall are fully patched linux machines. I'm confident that, whilst I'm not 100% secure, I'm a much harder target than the majority of machines sat on the internet. A couple of weeks ago I installed a smoothwall machine for a neighbour because his XP machine had been hacked to bits via his NTL cable broadband connection. I even persuaded him to install SuSE instead of XP. Now he's a happy man, but in the first 10 minutes of operation, his smoothwall machine blocked over 100 hostile attempts on his network. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that you are aware of the issues and can cope with them, but if you opened all the ports to most schools, their networks would essentially be unavailable for use by the pupils and staff almost all the time. >Your statistics (almost %100) is also wrong. Almost everyone here on >this this are to some extent are proficient enough to do that. I'm sure that a good number of people on this list are to some extent proficient enough. However, even if everyone on this list was very good at network security, that would still account for a small fraction of 1% of UK schools (unless there are hundreds of lurkers on the list). And in the schools I've been in, even where the technical staff have much higher than average levels of competence, I don't believe they have time to sit down each morning, digest and act upon all the security bulletins, patch machines etc. They already have an overfull workload without this. > In any case the >security issue is for schools to worry about and not the ISP's. If >schools don't have the technical experts to run a school network then >they should invest in hiring skilled technicians but I know that they >do. It would be great if schools funded technical experts to this level, but they don't and it's not a change that is likely to happen quickly. I don't know of any well paid technical staff in any UK school - now that Chris Puttick has gone back to industry :) - and this is a situation that needs to be addressed. However, at the moment, opening the ports on the LEA firewall would essentially shut down ICT in most uk schools, and whilst that would send a useful message to all involved, I can fully understand why LEAs and ISPs don't want to do it. Cheers -- Phil Driscoll -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com This message may contain information and/or data that is confidential and legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any use, publication, reproduction or dissemination is strictly prohibited and may violate certain laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy this and all copies of this message and/or data. The content of this message has been scanned by MailPatrol for unacceptable language and inappropriate content. 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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Open Source pr Propriety
by Phil Driscoll 02 Dec '03

02 Dec '03

On Tuesday 02 December 2003 12:25, ICT Support Officer wrote: > I can knock them all as far as I can throw them. Just a question for you -> > When you and millions of others are connecting to their broadband service > from home or office do they not have full access to all the ports. I am in > fact running my own mail and web servers from home using my broadband > connection. Why should schools be an exception. All the ISp's are doing is > providing a pipe between you and the Internet. > I think you missed the point here I don't think so. I'm sure that you have a setup like mine. My ADSL line goes into a smoothwall box which I keep fully patched and monitor the logs. All my machines behind that firewall are fully patched linux machines. I'm confident that, whilst I'm not 100% secure, I'm a much harder target than the majority of machines sat on the internet. A couple of weeks ago I installed a smoothwall machine for a neighbour because his XP machine had been hacked to bits via his NTL cable broadband connection. I even persuaded him to install SuSE instead of XP. Now he's a happy man, but in the first 10 minutes of operation, his smoothwall machine blocked over 100 hostile attempts on his network. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that you are aware of the issues and can cope with them, but if you opened all the ports to most schools, their networks would essentially be unavailable for use by the pupils and staff almost all the time. >Your statistics (almost %100) is also wrong. Almost everyone here on this >this are to some extent are proficient enough to do that. I'm sure that a good number of people on this list are to some extent proficient enough. However, even if everyone on this list was very good at network security, that would still account for a small fraction of 1% of UK schools (unless there are hundreds of lurkers on the list). And in the schools I've been in, even where the technical staff have much higher than average levels of competence, I don't believe they have time to sit down each morning, digest and act upon all the security bulletins, patch machines etc. They already have an overfull workload without this. > In any case the >security issue is for schools to worry about and not the ISP's. If schools >don't have the technical experts to run a school network then they should >invest in hiring skilled technicians but I know that they do. It would be great if schools funded technical experts to this level, but they don't and it's not a change that is likely to happen quickly. I don't know of any well paid technical staff in any UK school - now that Chris Puttick has gone back to industry :) - and this is a situation that needs to be addressed. However, at the moment, opening the ports on the LEA firewall would essentially shut down ICT in most uk schools, and whilst that would send a useful message to all involved, I can fully understand why LEAs and ISPs don't want to do it. Cheers -- Phil Driscoll

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Plone and Squeak
by Colin McQueen 02 Dec '03

02 Dec '03

Having been pointed to these I am very impressed. I will be looking to incorporate their use in our school. -- Colin McQueen

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Open file formats and idiology
by Grainge, Derek 02 Dec '03

02 Dec '03

Sadly, programming isn't on the agenda in any part of the national curriculum in UK school - unless you do A-level Computing as opposed to ICT - which means Computing is therefore the preserve of geekdom in schools. Contrast that against India - all Indian senior schools teach programming and hardware, and few teach ICT skills (although it's creeping in now). Few pupils use ICT for coursework etc in the way the UK does. Few countries except the UK would allow as much coursework as we do. Indians have a long history in areas like Philosophy and Maths, and they value Engineers far more than we do. You then see jobs going to India from the UK. Not all parts of India, needless to say - but there is an IT industry, they have lots of very expert programmers and they have the infrastructure to support all the stuff we now outsource to them: it's not just about price. National Curriculum and GCSE ICT make me sad in many ways: the former is largely tick-list mentality (can he do bold, can he do italic?) and the latter purports to create mini software engineers: 15 year olds doing system analysis - get real. Tests like CLAIT and ECDL don't provide any guarantees that those who pass them can use IT effectively. So how do you teach IT? : set pupils tasks which require them to use various features found in certain packages. It would be nice if everyone could self-learn applications but that would apply to only a proportion of pupils in any school. Provide support for the self-learners and teaching for those who can't get their heads round it. Assess the quality of the work done: it is 'fit for purpose'? Knowing which button to press to produce bullets is irrelevant; or should be. How do you teach programming? Most schools don't. But it's easy to pick up bad habits and it's very important that students who do decide to learn by themselves get guidance. I know I give it wherever possible. Do all schools have someone with the ability to teach C++ or VB or Java? I doubt it. Teaching programming is like teaching Latin or Maths - you are teaching a methodology and the need for rigour, attention to detail. IT companies will snap up Classics graduates because they have the intellect and approach needed to do programming. Previous experience not necessary. You can do the Times crossword? Straight in. So by teaching programming are we falling into the same 'skills' trap? Unfortunately as soon as you write a syllabus it need to be seen to be 'rigorous' (ha!) and QCA get involved. Sorry if I offend anyone connected with exam boards or the QCA - but I reckon that their muddled thinking is doing real damage. That feels better. I'll go and take a tablet. Derek -----Original Message----- From: John Dean [mailto:john@rygannon.com] Sent: 27 November 2003 15:53 To: Chris Puttick Cc: Matt Johnson; SuSe Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Open file formats and idiology On Thursday 27 November 2003 14:50, Chris Puttick wrote: Am I correct in assuming that you guys actually teach kids to use a Wordprocessor. Surely, your time would be better spent teaching the rudiments of programming. Would you believe that I have never been taught a single thing about the use of any any application from the multitude of Office Suites. The Help files and tutorials have always been my friend not the class room -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of unacceptable material. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. Website: http://www.wellington-college.berks.sch.uk ********************************************************************************

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Re: An Open Source National curriculum
by Chris Puttick 02 Dec '03

02 Dec '03

I hope there are any number of people on this list, who, unlike myself are suitably qualified and experienced to contribute directly to this. Hopefully on SchoolForge-UK (open development as well as open source) or strongly linked. Where I can help, I'm willing to do so. Regards Chris -----Original Message----- From: David Bowles [mailto:dbowles@educationsupport.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: 02 December 2003 09:05 To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Re: An Open Source National curriculum Why...? > does [it] not give staff more freedonm as they will struggle to use > the open source applications. I agree that many teachers of ICT (and hence their students) would have considerable difficulty transferring their existing ICT skills to alternative open-source applications. But why? Is this an immutable fundamental characteristic of the learning process involved in mastering new applications? I think not. Rather the non-portability of ICT skills as taught in schools and elsewhere simply reflects the comparative immaturity of today's ICT curriculum. Let me explain why: To begin with some people (mostly those who work in commerce) do make the transfer to open-source applications with comparatively ease. Furthermore long time IT pros' like myself can usually master the basics of almost any applications that's thrown at us within just a few short minutes. Therefore in theory it must be possible to switch to alternative applications with comparative ease, if the original application has been taught in the right way. So what is it that IT pro's possess that school teachers and their students don't have? The answer is fluency in ICT as a living generic foreign language. But surely this takes years to develop, doesn't it? Well yes, at present it does... but it doesn't have to. That's because no one has bothered to prioritise the learning of basic ICT skills that have a strong commonality of function across a wide range of applications. Let me give you a concrete example. When teachers demonstrate to their students (or indeed their colleagues) how to use standard software applications, most tend to invoke functions by clicking on their icons displayed on a tool-bar or a pallet. Now on the surface this might appear to be the easiest and therefore the best option ...echoing how they themselves were taught. However tool-bars, pallets and even the images within icons tend to be unique to each individual application. Furthermore, tool-bars can be edited and pallets moved or even hidden. This serves to make common or standard functions non-transferable across applications. Independent use of a particular application may also become dependent upon how this has been configured within a particular school or even how this has been set-up on a particular PC. Teaching ICT in this restrictive way is somewhat akin to teaching what is claimed to be a modern foreign language, but in practice is no more than a miss-mash of slang, colloquialisms plus a selection of phrases from a highly localised dialect. What's a better approach? Well, almost every function within an application is readily accessible through the ubiquitous drop-down menu system. Furthermore most drop-down menu systems have an application-independent standard structure that's both consistent and highly logical -- 'File'; 'Edit'; 'Insert'; 'etc...'; '...Help'. Hence once a student has learned how to access a particular function via the drop-down menu system, this skill is immediately transferable to almost any other software application that utilises the same or a similar function. IT pros' such as myself instinctively tend to use the menu system, rather than pallets and tool-bars, when accessing anything other than the most obvious functionality. This makes perfect sense, given the menu system tends to closely reflects the functionality of the API (applications programming interface) used by the designer who constructed the application. In fact when adding functionality to an application, usually one links this first to the standard menu system. Linking to pallets, tool-bars and icons usually comes much much later. Now imagine what would happen if the writing of English prose was taught in schools without first teaching or making any reference to 'the ABC', part of speech (nouns, vowels, adjectives, etc), punctuation and sentence construction. Yet that's exactly how we currently set about teaching ICT in our schools! In conclusion; what's needed is a clear focus on teaching ICT from the perspective of a 'modern foreign language', rather that simply encouraging students to memorise and then parrot selected extracts from 'XYZ' School's '3rd-floor-ICT-suite' machine specific configuration of the 'MS-Word Phrase-Book'. ...and that's what I have been working on for some time now -- portable teaching skills that are fundamental to a far more mature future ICT curriculum. Furthermore it's also my intention to both develop and publish a sample 'ICT fundamentals' curriculum for use in schools on an open-source basis. This will feature teacher-friendly schemas, comprehensive lesson plans, teaching guides and support materials. Will this be fully compatible with the current statutory ICT National Curriculum? Yes it will. For I see no conflict whatsoever with the current NC including the standard 'Levels of Attainment'. In fact approaching ICT in manner similar to how a modern foreign language is taught will help to make the ICT NC a lot easier to implement in a meaningful way. Now if anyone on this list is interested in joining me in this venture then do please let me know. David Bowles TeacherLab / Education-Support db(a)educationsupport.fsnet.co.uk > Installing them as well as learning to > use them. Adults find it harder to transfer skills. Those that can > cope and don't mind changing (they enjoy using their free time this > way) probably will anyway. >> The present >> National Curriculum for ICT is limited in its content. > No its not. Have you been right through the KS3 Strategy materials? > Its content is not defined in the statutory documents because it needs > to be flexible enough to change with the development of ICT. Take for > example the day we discover how to store graphics in a format that has > the advantages of vector and bitmap. >> > >> > It was sensible for the KS3 streategy materials to be produced in >> > MS office format (and pdf BTW) >> Yes but is PDF open source and can you manipulate it as is required >> by the strategy? > I wasn't suggesting it was, simply making sure I wasn't just in an > anti-microsoft debate ;-). You can manipulate it if you have acrobat > or the skills to use the reader to export the data. > I am beginning to more fully understand the debate now. I think there > will be huge resistance to changing. Microsoft are so good at adding > easily accessible function to their applications that excite people. > Time is short for teachers. Having to spend too much of your free > time to adapt and work around software to come up with the excitement > is a block to changing to open source. >> >> as they are the most common format in use in >> > schools AND Oo etc can read them. As I understand it the materials >> > for special schools will use Macromedia Flash >> instead of Excel. >> >> Flash is now a spreadsheet? > Whoa there... We don't teach spreadsheets in the NC we teach > modelling. Special school pupils cannot handle spreadsheets for > modelling so people are developing flash models because of the ease of > doing this and because you can make it fun to use. >> >> There are >> > one or two other examples of none MS products that are suggested >> > for use especially for sound/video and database work. >> >> Only because there are now MS versions that are free to use >> (Audacity?) > I think you missed out the word "none"?. But OK I no realise this is > not simply an anti-MS debate. > <snip> >> > >> > Now if you mean produce materials and sample teaching units that >> > use open source applications then fine. Good idea and I hope the >> > emphasis is on K+U for ICT capability and not on skills in any >> > particular Oo or open source application. > I'd be happy to lend my time to creating an alternative set of sample > teaching units using open source file formats and applications. >> > >> > If anyone has info on a decent easy to use open source educational >> > programming tool that can be understood by weaker visual learners >> > (eg. similar to Flowol) then let me know where it is. >> > >> > Similiarly we also need an open source gateway/portal product that >> > uses decent encryption for schools to use as their communication >> > and MLE tool. I have looked at Moodle but it has to integrate >> > with the normal authentication methods. One login for everything. >> > I'm obviously not an expert in these things but I need information >> > to help me consider the options. Part of my work is in piloting >> > the Microsoft Learning Gateway for schools (Basically a combination >> > of Sharepoint and Class server). I'd love to have a better, faster >> > open source alternative that integrated well. >> >> try Plone regards garry > OK I'll have a look. > -- > Colin McQueen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com This message may contain information and/or data that is confidential and legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any use, publication, reproduction or dissemination is strictly prohibited and may violate certain laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy this and all copies of this message and/or data. The content of this message has been scanned by MailPatrol for unacceptable language and inappropriate content. European Electronique limited thanks you in anticipation of your co-operation. MailPatrol is a fully managed service that offers your organisation the ability to monitor and enforce your Acceptable Usage Policy. For further information regarding the MailPatrol services contact the European Electronique Sales Enquiry line on 0845 345 8340 (local rate) or email sales(a)euroele.com

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nx9005 size & orientation Thanks
by Ron Johnson 01 Dec '03

01 Dec '03

Dear All Can I thank you - in the end I got it working using a strange system called Yast (I never said I was clever - obviously I should have tried it before I cried help) I also disabled the dmps which may have helped. You also have sent me on a learning curve (okay bump). Internet connection next - I'm sending this on windows desktop, which I have to have as although yourselves (you lot sounds rude) seem to be brain boxes, most things I'm trying out on Linux don't work. Internet not yet, I'm stuck I think its the device that's the problem ppp0, DVDs won't play yet although played CDs. I tried Linux out about a year ago with the prospect of getting more Linux in education and the common home user (I'm as common as you can get). In the end I decided to leave it - especially as I was hoping to help with a freebie educational programs disc - but when I evaluated that - I got stuck more often than not - which made it unworkable. I'm afraid a year later, it is still harder to use out of the box than xp, although xp is usually installed so configuration of a number of things is not an issue (presumably the same would apply to Linux if it was pre-installed?). Again thanks for all the help God bless you and yours Wonald ________________________________________________________________________ Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams

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nx9005 size & orientation??
by Ron Johnson 01 Dec '03

01 Dec '03

Dear All I dont know if you can help, but I have just put Suse 9 Prof on my school laptop- compaq/hp nx9005. Display is useless I can't get it off 640x480 using the Control Centre. When I apply 600x800 or 1024x768 I get some very weird screens - unworkable. Have you any answers otherwise I will have to wipe Suse off. I did this as a prelim to putting Suse 9 on my desktop as I wish to try out some Linux eduaction programs. Now I am not so sure, although I hope it wont be a problem on the desktop as it is up to date hardware. Thanking you in advance Many of God's blessings Ron Johnson ________________________________________________________________________ Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] nx9005 size & orientation??
by Chris Puttick 01 Dec '03

01 Dec '03

IGP is funny stuff - I believe the betas of the new kernel shipped with SuSE have better support for it, so might be worth trying. When I ran into this problem with 8.2 and the same laptop 6 months ago, reinstalling and selecting 1024x768 during the install process (first menu) solved it. Not tried it with 9 as have avoided Compaq laptops ever since. Not that it helps this time, but Toshiba, IBM and Maxdata have a lot less problems with Linux (IBM and Toshiba because they support it, Maxdata because they tend to use slightly older technology) than other laptop manaufacturers I've tried. Samsung (and therefore, bizarrely, RM) should not be a problem either as Samsung are actively supporting Linux. My shiny new company laptop is a Toshiba Tecra M1 and the only thing I haven't got working so far is the infra-red - even got the Centrino wireless working! If the link below is no use, try http://www.hussar.demon.co.uk/linux/hpze4125.htm and http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/history/92295 Cheers Chris -----Original Message----- From: Robert J Gautier [mailto:rjg@ateb.co.uk] Sent: 01 December 2003 00:08 To: Ron Johnson Cc: rjg(a)ateb.co.uk; suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] nx9005 size & orientation?? A quick Google located this, which contains a pointer to some Radeon video drivers that might help: http://www.consultmatt.co.uk/nx9005.php If the instructions don't make sense and you don't get any more Suse-specific help get back to me and I'll try to help you through it. Bob Gautier Ateb Limited On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, Ron Johnson wrote: > Dear All > > I dont know if you can help, but I have just put Suse > 9 Prof on my school laptop- compaq/hp nx9005. Display > is useless I can't get it off 640x480 using the > Control Centre. When I apply 600x800 or 1024x768 I get > some very weird screens - unworkable. Have you any > answers otherwise I will have to wipe Suse off. > > I did this as a prelim to putting Suse 9 on my desktop > as I wish to try out some Linux eduaction programs. > Now I am not so sure, although I hope it wont be a > problem on the desktop as it is up to date hardware. > > Thanking you in advance > Many of God's blessings > > Ron Johnson > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams > > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com This message may contain information and/or data that is confidential and legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any use, publication, reproduction or dissemination is strictly prohibited and may violate certain laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy this and all copies of this message and/or data. The content of this message has been scanned by MailPatrol for unacceptable language and inappropriate content. European Electronique limited thanks you in anticipation of your co-operation. MailPatrol is a fully managed service that offers your organisation the ability to monitor and enforce your Acceptable Usage Policy. For further information regarding the MailPatrol services contact the European Electronique Sales Enquiry line on 0845 345 8340 (local rate) or email sales(a)euroele.com

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Re: Re: An Open Source National curriculum
by Colin McQueen 01 Dec '03

01 Dec '03

ian <ian.lynch2(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: > On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 22:52, Colin McQueen wrote: > > ian <ian.lynch2(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 19:36, garry saddington wrote: > > > > We use Open Source almost exclusively to teach ICT and I have > > > > the idea that an alternative Open Source National Curriculum > > > > would be a good thing, what do others feel? > > > > > > Good idea. Ideal project for SchoolforgeUK I should think. > > > > > > > I am unsure about what this means. Surely the National Curriculum > > should not be linked to any particular ICT tool provision. Freedom > > of choice and all that. > > Er quite, so let's make sure that there is at least a basic set of > support for teaching that conforms to open standards and does not > require people to buy expensive proprietary software. Are you confident that any files that were to be created would load OK into MS or other companies products? Answer is no, I suspect. So how do we address that? > > > It was sensible for the KS3 streategy materials to be produced in MS > > office format (and pdf BTW) as they are the most common format in > > use in schools AND Oo etc can read them. > > Apart from the fact that this reinforces a proprietary monopoly where > the monopolist is taking action to try and make it illegal for other > programs to open its files. PDF is no good for teaching materials > because people will want to modify them. I would say a better way to > do it would be to use the Open file format of OOo based on XML and > export to the MS format. A subtle but important difference. Isn't the Microsoft format an xml format now? > > And what about resources to support subjects that depend on things > like Macromedia Shockwave which make the use of Open Standards more > difficult? I'm not aware of, for example, a full set of presentation > slides to support the KS3 maths teaching so we have thousands of maths > teachers all writing the same things up on the board and rubbing them > out when a presentation on a data projector would be a lot more > professional. An excellent opportunity for us then. <snip> > > There are > > one or two other examples of none MS products that are suggested for > > use especially for sound/video and database work. > > Microsoft isn't the issue, open standards is. So I have now realised more fully. > > > Anyway much of the > > teaching is about K+U, content and process not application skills > > exactly because of the "What's going to be around in the future" > > argument. > > > Now if you mean produce materials and sample teaching units that use > > open source applications then fine. > > Not samples, the whole lot. The ICT units are called sample teaching units. I didn't mean "a sample". > Let's start with say maths and provide all > the support that is required for Y7-9 maths lessons for whole class > teaching using a data projector. Good idea but I'm not a maths teacher. <snip> > > > Good idea and I hope the emphasis is > > on K+U for ICT capability and not on skills in any particular Oo or > > open source application. > > Personally I think the de-emphasis on skills is the equivalent of > telling people that you don't need to be able to spell and punctuate > to write reasonable English. The fact is that you can identify skills > that are transferable. Take a look at www.theINGOTs.org. Here there is > an emphasis on skills but they can be achieved with a wide range of > software and certainly with free software. I'll have a look, > The aim should be to be > inclusive of open standards at all times. If that then allows people > to use closed and proprietary ones too OK they have that choice but > the starting point should be the open stuff not the closed stuff. The > mindset that says if it works on Windows it must be OK needs to be > challenged. > > > If anyone has info on a decent easy to use open source educational > > programming tool that can be understood by weaker visual learners > > (eg. similar to Flowol) then let me know where it is. > > Squeak? OK I'll look at that too. > > > Similiarly we also need an open source gateway/portal product that > > uses decent encryption for schools to use as their communication and > > MLE tool. I have looked at Moodle but it has to integrate with the > > normal authentication methods. One login for everything. > > Useful thing for the government to fund. After all, if they can chuck > £100m of tax payers money per year at ELCs a few thousand on paying > someone to make a few modifications to Moodle is hardly a lot to ask. > In fact for £100m we could probably develop open source alternatives > to just about every bit of useful educational software and then > everyone could just have it free, including those in developing > countries who can't afford any software. Agreed. Who can get this message across to the people that count? > > > I'm obviously not an > > expert in these things but I need information to help me consider > > the options. Part of my work is in piloting the Microsoft Learning > > Gateway for schools (Basically a combination of Sharepoint and Class > > server). I'd love to have a better, faster open source alternative > > that integrated well. > > My basic point is that if open standards are adhered to it shouldn't > matter what gateway is used but we should reject any that tie schools > into proprietary products. > But does that mean taking a (I hate to use the phrase) backward step as their are some functions not available in open source but are in proprietary form. I think it probably does and I'd be for it but its not the way the world works. -- Colin McQueen

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