December 2003 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: FLOSSIE Conference
by Alan Harris 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

On Friday, Dec 12, 2003, at 02:01 Europe/London, MJ Ray wrote: > On 2003-12-11 10:35:26 +0000 Alan Harris > <alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk> wrote: > >> 1. I'd love to come but it's difficult to make a day trip to London >> from Llanelli / Carmarthen and get there before 11.00 a.m., >> especially if you don't have you own transport. > > Off-list: isn't this just a case of getting a train to Swansea and > catching the first GWR, or am I missing some complication? Leave Carmarthen 02:41 arrive London 06:43 or, leave Carmarthen 06:00 arrive London 10:00. Of course I could book the overnight stay but would probably end up paying for the lot out of my own pocket, getting the new regime in this place to pay for such an action is probably not going to happen. They refused to pay for two non-teaching members of staff to attend a basic MAC OS/X course in Cheltenham - cost was only £65 per person! > >> 2. Most of the people you want to influence are in school management >> and, in my experience, either not in the least bit interested in OSS >> or downright hostile. > > Maybe we should subtitle this event "Bring a Manager (get one free)"? > ;-) Not a bad idea actually.. Any comment Ian? > >> 3. Schools are going to require a mixture of operating systems and >> hardware - pushing OSS alone is not going to work BUT OSS in >> conjunction with different > > Hrm, not sure on 2 counts. I think we have to push a pure free > software platform, but mention the other possibilities as migration > and interoperability options. The non-free stuff has other people to > promote it. I'd swop to Mac OS/X & Linux on PC's tomorrow no problem. So would 75% of pupils. Teachers on the other hand..... > >> 4. You really need to host two / three of these events, one in each >> of the three major regions (England, Scotland & Wales) > > Do you know people in Scotland and Wales who could help make this > happen? AFFS is surely interested. I'll forward Ians original flossie announcement to my local lug list and see if our management would be prepared to host such an event here, I'll also forward to our LEA's 'techlist' and challenge them to see if we, as a group of technicians could try to support such an event and make it happen..... > >> 5. Push very hard the 'inclusive' aspect of OSS - you don't need the >> latest versions of software to do your work. OSS is not exclusive > > ...unless there are software patents. That's why I don't like "OSS" > alone. I suggest promoting FLOSS. Yup, you're right here - I'll start calling OSS FLOSS from now on > >> Perhaps a way forward here (prepares to be flamed out of existence) >> is that we begin to report such occurences to M$ [...] > > Would they care? Is the profit from having the software everywhere in > schools, even in ones that won't pay for it, more than the loss from > copyright infringement by those schools? Good point, my comments were born out of total frustration with silly arguments put forward by silly unknowlegable people in positions of so called importance > > -- > MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. > Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read > http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at > Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ >

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New website
by garry saddington 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

I have just started my website devoted to free software in UK schools with the emphasis at the moment on my school. It is a CMF so it is easy to post new work. On it I intend to post every file that I have made with free software along with examples of my student's work. There are a few things there now but this will increase over the next few days and especially over Xmas. Please feel free to take anything that you could use, or you may wish to join and add your own files? www.scholarpack.org regards garry

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Flossie again
by ian 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 18:28, John Dean wrote: > On Thursday 11 December 2003 18:01, ian wrote: > > On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 09:55, John Dean wrote: > > > For me London is totally out of the question. It is not a matter of > > > distance or money it is a matter of principle, being a Northerner. As far > > > as organic muck is concerned you can shove that stuff where a monkey > > > shoves his nuts > > > > I'm a Geordie by birth and Midlander by adoption. Why London? Because it > > has the best rail connections, the biggest population to recruit from > > and most importantly the Government is in London and if you want to get > > influential people from the Government to attend.... The fundamental > > question is Do we want FLOSS to succeed? If so we need to do the things > > most likely to make it happen and not get side-tracked by individual > > politics as you indicate with your monkey comment ;-) > > Sorry Hinny, there is no way I will travel to London no matter what the > reason. Like I said this is a matter of principle and it a principle that I > will not change No problem, I know a lot of people who say similar things about computer operating systems :-) -- ian <ian.lynch2(a)ntlworld.com>

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Re: FLOSSIE Conference
by John Ingleby 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

Yishay, Thanks for your feedback. Nearest thing to a brochure at the moment is the booking form, a PDF document linked from the conference page at http://www.schoolforge.org.uk/flossie/conference200402.html Best regards, John **** On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 11:43, Yishay Mor wrote: > How have you been advertising? > > I am located at the IOE. There's a Masters program in "ICT in education" > here, and I Havant seen any announcement through the institute. Do you > have any posters / flyers I can hand around? I'm also in touch with the > South Camden CLC. > > If you want, I can suggest some contacts here at the IOE. I tried > circulating the announcement, but perhaps a "formal invite", maybe with > a "special IOE price", will have better effects? > > best, > > - Yishay > > Tony Whitmore wrote: > > > John Ingleby wrote: > > > I believe there are 3 registrations so far; the conference needs 50 > > > delegates to run, so just *47 more* will make it happen. We're aiming > > > for at least 100, but there's capacity for 400. This conference is a > > > fantastic opportunity to save money across UK schools, and get more > > > *real* IT into the hands of pupils and teachers. > > > > Maybe I've not been spreading the word as much as I could be. I've just > > started posting to various places about the conference. Hopefully > > that'll get some more interest. > > > > Tony > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Schoolforge-uk mailing list > > Schoolforge-uk(a)lists.centralmanclc.com > > http://lists.centralmanclc.com/mailman/listinfo/schoolforge-uk > > -- John Ingleby ************ CoroNet Information Systems Ltd. Kings Langley, UK www.coronet.co.uk

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Help setting up SUSE box on school network please!!!
by j_low 10 Dec '03

10 Dec '03

I have to say, one of the best replies on this list so far. I'm still giggling! Still - as a very amateur linux user, I do find this list very helpful, so don't get the wrong idea. Unfortunately I use Samba the other way so can't help here. John At 16:57 08/12/03 +0000, you wrote: >On Fri 05 Dec, Thomas Adam wrote: > >> > PHASE 1 >> > * What further information do I need to get about our current win2k >> > setup >> > * What network software do I need to intall on suse >> >> Samba, without a doubt. >> >> You can then get that to authenticate against win2k machine, or whatever. >> >> -- Thomas Adam > >I love the simplicity of this answer - that disguises so many of the >problems you'll face. > >Ideally you will need a latest version of SAMBA which has better/improved >windbind support. Then you need to go away and read all the documentation. > >A course on how to write PAM authentication modules is desirable. - If you >learn how to use them - perhaps you could then write a few pages to let a few of >us normal mortals into their secrets - especially on how NOT to lock yourself >out of the linux box all together. > >Then you join your linux box to Win2K domain using samba and set up winbind and >test it - so you can see all users. > >Once you have it working - tell us how to do it. > >-- >Alan Davies >Head of Computing >Birkenhead School > > >-- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com >For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com > > > > > This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not represent those of St Mary's Hall.

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Screen Captureing
by David Selby 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

I am trying to do fools guide to the copying a CD and mounting it on our Linux CD server for my techs who do not no Linux and what to give them screen dumps of the commands and the results I would normally do this using print screen in windows but this seem not to work in Linux can any one help.

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Help setting up SUSE box on school network please!!!
by MJ Ray 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

On 2003-12-05 23:02:05 +0000 ICT Support Officer <ict(a)canonpalmer.com> wrote: > Can anyone reply to the following message please with full info.... A question was asked of a mailing list. If you're very lucky, someone will have done it already and have time to explain it to you for free. If you're lucky, someone will point you in the right direction, with the name of a software package, a key fact like "AD is basically a bodged LDAP" or a URL to a HOWTO like http://jaxen.ratisle.net/~jj/nss_ldap-AD_Integration_how-to.html If you're not lucky or can't figure it out from the pointers, then you'll have to pay an expert (internal or external) to explain or implement it for you. Chastising the list seems unreasonable to me. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Screen Captureing
by David Selby 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

Thank a lot -----Original Message----- From: Kyle Williamson [mailto:kyle@solented.co.uk] Sent: 09 December 2003 10:16 To: 'David Selby'; suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Subject: RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Screen Captureing The gimp == Kind Regards, Kyle Williamson - Solent Educational Ltd Tel: (023) 80 843189 Fax: (023) 80 848715 kyle(a)solented.co.uk / http://www.solented.co.uk ________________________________________ From: David Selby [mailto:IT@st-leonards.durham.sch.uk] Sent: 09 December 2003 10:12 To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Screen Captureing I am trying to do fools guide to the copying a CD and mounting it on our Linux CD server for my techs who do not no Linux and what to give them screen dumps of the commands and the results I would normally do this using print screen in windows but this seem not to work in Linux can any one help.

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Samba 3 RPM
by Chris Puttick 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

Are, like many really useful packages, maintained by the lovely SuSE people. Any SuSE FTP mirror should have them here: [your favourite mirror(.ac.uk ;-))]/pub/linux/suse/people/gd/9.0-i386/ If you can authenticate, mounting the network area is easy... Cheers Chris This message may contain information and/or data that is confidential and legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any use, publication, reproduction or dissemination is strictly prohibited and may violate certain laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy this and all copies of this message and/or data. The content of this message has been scanned by MailPatrol for unacceptable language and inappropriate content. European Electronique limited thanks you in anticipation of your co-operation. MailPatrol is a fully managed service that offers your organisation the ability to monitor and enforce your Acceptable Usage Policy. For further information regarding the MailPatrol services contact the European Electronique Sales Enquiry line on 0845 345 8340 (local rate) or email sales(a)euroele.com

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Re: An Open Source National curriculum
by Chris Puttick 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

MS support for open file formats: OpenOffice.org format is published and available for use - if MS can't read it now, they could *very* easily write a filter for it. MS support for XML: only if you buy the extra expensive version of Office 2003, which I assume most schools will not be. Proprietary functionality "better" or "more extensive": where? I've been in IT for 10 years now, and into Linux for 2; the only times I've had problems with Linux is due to lack of hardware manufacturer support i.e. lack of drivers, which has nothing to do with the superiority of proprietary solutions, just a lack of foresight and/or customer service on behalf of the hardware manufacturer. Persuading the UK government to spend money in sensible, creative and forward-looking ways: Start a political party? Cheers Chris -----Original Message----- From: Colin McQueen [mailto:cmcqueen@mcqueen.uk.net] Sent: 01 December 2003 08:18 To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Re: An Open Source National curriculum ian <ian.lynch2(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: > On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 22:52, Colin McQueen wrote: > > ian <ian.lynch2(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 19:36, garry saddington wrote: > > > > We use Open Source almost exclusively to teach ICT and I have > > > > the idea that an alternative Open Source National Curriculum > > > > would be a good thing, what do others feel? > > > > > > Good idea. Ideal project for SchoolforgeUK I should think. > > > > > > > I am unsure about what this means. Surely the National Curriculum > > should not be linked to any particular ICT tool provision. Freedom > > of choice and all that. > > Er quite, so let's make sure that there is at least a basic set of > support for teaching that conforms to open standards and does not > require people to buy expensive proprietary software. Are you confident that any files that were to be created would load OK into MS or other companies products? Answer is no, I suspect. So how do we address that? > > > It was sensible for the KS3 streategy materials to be produced in MS > > office format (and pdf BTW) as they are the most common format in > > use in schools AND Oo etc can read them. > > Apart from the fact that this reinforces a proprietary monopoly where > the monopolist is taking action to try and make it illegal for other > programs to open its files. PDF is no good for teaching materials > because people will want to modify them. I would say a better way to > do it would be to use the Open file format of OOo based on XML and > export to the MS format. A subtle but important difference. Isn't the Microsoft format an xml format now? > > And what about resources to support subjects that depend on things > like Macromedia Shockwave which make the use of Open Standards more > difficult? I'm not aware of, for example, a full set of presentation > slides to support the KS3 maths teaching so we have thousands of maths > teachers all writing the same things up on the board and rubbing them > out when a presentation on a data projector would be a lot more > professional. An excellent opportunity for us then. <snip> > > There are > > one or two other examples of none MS products that are suggested for > > use especially for sound/video and database work. > > Microsoft isn't the issue, open standards is. So I have now realised more fully. > > > Anyway much of the > > teaching is about K+U, content and process not application skills > > exactly because of the "What's going to be around in the future" > > argument. > > > Now if you mean produce materials and sample teaching units that use > > open source applications then fine. > > Not samples, the whole lot. The ICT units are called sample teaching units. I didn't mean "a sample". > Let's start with say maths and provide all > the support that is required for Y7-9 maths lessons for whole class > teaching using a data projector. Good idea but I'm not a maths teacher. <snip> > > > Good idea and I hope the emphasis is > > on K+U for ICT capability and not on skills in any particular Oo or > > open source application. > > Personally I think the de-emphasis on skills is the equivalent of > telling people that you don't need to be able to spell and punctuate > to write reasonable English. The fact is that you can identify skills > that are transferable. Take a look at www.theINGOTs.org. Here there is > an emphasis on skills but they can be achieved with a wide range of > software and certainly with free software. I'll have a look, > The aim should be to be > inclusive of open standards at all times. If that then allows people > to use closed and proprietary ones too OK they have that choice but > the starting point should be the open stuff not the closed stuff. The > mindset that says if it works on Windows it must be OK needs to be > challenged. > > > If anyone has info on a decent easy to use open source educational > > programming tool that can be understood by weaker visual learners > > (eg. similar to Flowol) then let me know where it is. > > Squeak? OK I'll look at that too. > > > Similiarly we also need an open source gateway/portal product that > > uses decent encryption for schools to use as their communication and > > MLE tool. I have looked at Moodle but it has to integrate with the > > normal authentication methods. One login for everything. > > Useful thing for the government to fund. After all, if they can chuck > £100m of tax payers money per year at ELCs a few thousand on paying > someone to make a few modifications to Moodle is hardly a lot to ask. > In fact for £100m we could probably develop open source alternatives > to just about every bit of useful educational software and then > everyone could just have it free, including those in developing > countries who can't afford any software. Agreed. Who can get this message across to the people that count? > > > I'm obviously not an > > expert in these things but I need information to help me consider > > the options. Part of my work is in piloting the Microsoft Learning > > Gateway for schools (Basically a combination of Sharepoint and Class > > server). I'd love to have a better, faster open source alternative > > that integrated well. > > My basic point is that if open standards are adhered to it shouldn't > matter what gateway is used but we should reject any that tie schools > into proprietary products. > But does that mean taking a (I hate to use the phrase) backward step as their are some functions not available in open source but are in proprietary form. I think it probably does and I'd be for it but its not the way the world works. -- Colin McQueen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com This message may contain information and/or data that is confidential and legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any use, publication, reproduction or dissemination is strictly prohibited and may violate certain laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy this and all copies of this message and/or data. The content of this message has been scanned by MailPatrol for unacceptable language and inappropriate content. European Electronique limited thanks you in anticipation of your co-operation. MailPatrol is a fully managed service that offers your organisation the ability to monitor and enforce your Acceptable Usage Policy. For further information regarding the MailPatrol services contact the European Electronique Sales Enquiry line on 0845 345 8340 (local rate) or email sales(a)euroele.com

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