ian wrote:

On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 22:52, Colin McQueen wrote:

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ian wrote:

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On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 19:36, garry saddington wrote:

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We use Open Source almost exclusively to teach ICT and I have the idea that an alternative Open Source National Curriculum would be a good thing, what do others feel?

Good idea. Ideal project for SchoolforgeUK I should think.

I am unsure about what this means. Surely the National Curriculum should not be linked to any particular ICT tool provision. Freedom of choice and all that.

Er quite, so let's make sure that there is at least a basic set of support for teaching that conforms to open standards and does not require people to buy expensive proprietary software.

Are you confident that any files that were to be created would load OK into MS or other companies products? Answer is no, I suspect. So how do we address that?

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It was sensible for the KS3 streategy materials to be produced in MS office format (and pdf BTW) as they are the most common format in use in schools AND Oo etc can read them.

Apart from the fact that this reinforces a proprietary monopoly where the monopolist is taking action to try and make it illegal for other programs to open its files. PDF is no good for teaching materials because people will want to modify them. I would say a better way to do it would be to use the Open file format of OOo based on XML and export to the MS format. A subtle but important difference.

Isn't the Microsoft format an xml format now?

And what about resources to support subjects that depend on things like Macromedia Shockwave which make the use of Open Standards more difficult? I'm not aware of, for example, a full set of presentation slides to support the KS3 maths teaching so we have thousands of maths teachers all writing the same things up on the board and rubbing them out when a presentation on a data projector would be a lot more professional.

An excellent opportunity for us then. <snip>

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There are one or two other examples of none MS products that are suggested for use especially for sound/video and database work.

Microsoft isn't the issue, open standards is.

So I have now realised more fully.

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Anyway much of the teaching is about K+U, content and process not application skills exactly because of the "What's going to be around in the future" argument.

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Now if you mean produce materials and sample teaching units that use open source applications then fine.

Not samples, the whole lot.

The ICT units are called sample teaching units. I didn't mean "a sample".

Let's start with say maths and provide all the support that is required for Y7-9 maths lessons for whole class teaching using a data projector.

Good idea but I'm not a maths teacher. <snip>

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Good idea and I hope the emphasis is on K+U for ICT capability and not on skills in any particular Oo or open source application.

Personally I think the de-emphasis on skills is the equivalent of telling people that you don't need to be able to spell and punctuate to write reasonable English. The fact is that you can identify skills that are transferable. Take a look at www.theINGOTs.org. Here there is an emphasis on skills but they can be achieved with a wide range of software and certainly with free software.

I'll have a look,

The aim should be to be inclusive of open standards at all times. If that then allows people to use closed and proprietary ones too OK they have that choice but the starting point should be the open stuff not the closed stuff. The mindset that says if it works on Windows it must be OK needs to be challenged.

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If anyone has info on a decent easy to use open source educational programming tool that can be understood by weaker visual learners (eg. similar to Flowol) then let me know where it is.

Squeak?

OK I'll look at that too.

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Similiarly we also need an open source gateway/portal product that uses decent encryption for schools to use as their communication and MLE tool. I have looked at Moodle but it has to integrate with the normal authentication methods. One login for everything.

Useful thing for the government to fund. After all, if they can chuck £100m of tax payers money per year at ELCs a few thousand on paying someone to make a few modifications to Moodle is hardly a lot to ask. In fact for £100m we could probably develop open source alternatives to just about every bit of useful educational software and then everyone could just have it free, including those in developing countries who can't afford any software.

Agreed. Who can get this message across to the people that count?

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I'm obviously not an expert in these things but I need information to help me consider the options. Part of my work is in piloting the Microsoft Learning Gateway for schools (Basically a combination of Sharepoint and Class server). I'd love to have a better, faster open source alternative that integrated well.

My basic point is that if open standards are adhered to it shouldn't matter what gateway is used but we should reject any that tie schools into proprietary products.

But does that mean taking a (I hate to use the phrase) backward step as their are some functions not available in open source but are in proprietary form. I think it probably does and I'd be for it but its not the way the world works. -- Colin McQueen