November 2001 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Meeting yesterday and welcome to new members of the list
by Philip Hands 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Roger Whittaker <roger(a)suse-linux.co.uk> writes: > I've just subscribed various people to the list - please post a > message to say hello and introduce yourselves. Hi, If you were at the meeting, I was wearing a Debian t-shirt (with a red swirl logo on it) --- there's a photo at the top of this article, where I'm wearing similar stuff (except for the penguin ;-) http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/articles/issue6/lu6-Editorial-A_patently_bad_ide… I'm a Debian GNU/Linux developer, and run the UK Debian mirror, and am responsible for producing the Debian official CD images: http://www.uk.debian.org/ http://cdimage.debian.org/ I have only a peripheral interest in educational matters, in that I've been frustrated in the past in my efforts to provide free computers (which were otherwise destined for a skip), but I can certainly contribute on a technical side, and having been involved in Debian (which is completely voluntary, like OSIE is expected to be) since 1996 I may be able to make some suggestions about how to ``organise'' such a thing. For those of you who've not come across Debian before, we're a world-wide voluntary organisation (read, chaotic jumble of mailing lists) that puts together a Linux distribution (and soon a HURD distribution) and gives it away. Debian doesn't pay people to do this, and doesn't sell what it produces, and in most legal senses doesn't really exist (i.e. the machines in the mirror network mostly belong to people like me, rather than to Debian, and the bandwidth is donated rather than paid for). This probably gives a pretty good feel for what Debian is all about: http://www.uk.debian.org/social_contract which you will notice leads into the The Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG), which is where the Open Source Definition came from. My internet machine, that hosts the Debian UK mirror, may be of use to OSIE, since it has about 30GB of spare disk, and a 20Mbit/s connection at a well connected ISP. This machine could act as either a primary host or mirror site for the web site, and could do DNS secondarying etc. as well. Something I'd be interested in working on (although perhaps a SuSE list is not the right place to spend too much time discussing this ;-) would be producing Debian CD images, tuned to the needs of educational users. Debian has accumulated some funds in the UK, and have been looking for a worthwhile cause to spend them on (we never really need to pay for anything that actually makes Debian work, so don't have much use for money), so we could probably afford to have a few thousand CDs pressed, and send them out to schools that are interested. Cheers, Phil. -- Say no to software patents! http://petition.eurolinux.org/ Philip Hands. +44 (0)20 7744 6244 philip.hands(a)uk.alcove.com Alcove UK --- Liberating Software --- http://www.alcove.com/ http://www.hands.com/ phil(a)hands.com http://www.uk.debian.org/

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NHS Meeting, Blair and Gates
by Malcolm Herbert 01 Dec '01

01 Dec '01

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23096.html A £70m deal gets you a personal apperance from the anti-christ. Antitrust now available on video in the UK A £10 deal gets you me :-) Malc -- ------------------------------------------- Malcolm Herbert Red Hat Europe t: +44 1483 734955 m: +44 7720 079 845 -------------------------------------------

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Fwd: REQUEST FOR HELP!
by Kevin Taylor 29 Nov '01

29 Nov '01

Just got this in the post today. Thought I would pass it on (made me smile ... and who knows ... you may have some budding technical kids who may be interested ...) Kevin. Northants LUG ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: REQUEST FOR HELP! Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:24:56 +0000 From: Alex Dundas <alex(a)princess.uk.com> Dear All I am writing in the hope that you might be able to help me! I am currently producing a new day-time television show for the BBC hosted by Ruby Wax and I am looking for technically gifted children under the age of ten/eleven who might be interested in taking part. If you could spare a couple of minutes to read this email I would be extremely grateful! "Life With Ruby" is a new day-time television show hosted by Ruby Wax looking at life in the 21st century and how to survive it. At times light-hearted, at times extremely serious, "Life With Ruby" looks at the subjects that reflect the viewers¹ interests life and love, health and fitness, family and friendship, money and careers. In one of the key features of the programme, Ruby focusses on gifted children with a technical streak. Why is it these days that anyone over the age of 40 is made to feel stupid when a five year-old explains to them how to set their video to record East Enders¹ four times a week, or shows them how to surf the net in 30 seconds flat to order their shopping? "Whizz Kids" features clever children who know how to programme videos, surf the internet, build web-sites, programme mobile phones, write computer programmes etc. Each piece will feature a clued up kid explaining a new-fangled technical concept to an older relative or friend! In keeping with the overall nature of the show, this feature will be fun and light-hearted. We are looking for a wide range of children PREFERABLY UNDER THE AGE OF TEN/ELEVEN (and accompanying adults!) who might enjoy taking part in this show. I wondered whether you would be able to help me in finding children that might be interested in this through your organisation. Our dead-line on this is fairly tight as we record our first programme on Friday 14th December and finish in mid-January! If you do know of anyone please do not hesitate to contact me on the address below: alex(a)princess.uk.com -- This email, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, you are hereby notified that any disemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Princess Productions Limited unless specifically stated. Alex Dundas Assistant Producer Princess Productions email: alex(a)princess.uk.com -------------------------------------------------------

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Forced to use MS in schools?
by Grainge, Derek 28 Nov '01

28 Nov '01

In the old days when Microsoft at least pretended to use Java, it required a digital certificate before a Java app could access your local files. You had to agree to a BT certificate (of whoever was your EDI provider). This is the way things still are under Java, providing controllable access to local files We have all rehearsed the reasons why ActivX is bad technology, as iare many of the scripting services. Unfortunately it's got nothing to do with the law. You might rephrase your question: If webexchange requires activX to be given access to the local drive, what step are WebExchange taking to ensure that the door remains remains closed when they're not accessing files? The answer will of course be a proverbial lemon. And that's where you may be able to have them. However, their response will simply be that if you don't like the product, try another. This comes under the heading of 'identifying the needs of the user'. Not unfortunately 'identifying with'. *ALL* browsers support Java 2 with the correct Sun support installed. But that requires more R&D than ActivX, given Microsoft's current and still hardening attitude to Java. > > > as stated in the Requirements, WebXchange requires Internet Explorer 4 or > > > greater. The reason is explained on the Support page: > > > Q: Why can't I use the Netscape web browser? > > > A: WebXchange uses Microsoft's Active-X technology to allow the transparent > > > transfer of files from and to your computer hard drive, which Netscape > > > browsers do not natively support. > > Any thoughts? > > How about: > > "Dear Mr Moran, > > Personally, I prefer to avoid using web technologies that can > transparently transfer files from and to my computer's hard drive. Some > computers that I use hold information that is confidential, such as > medical details, and I would be violating various laws[1] if I were not to > take reasonable precautions to protect this information. -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of inappropriate attachments and certain obscenities. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. ********************************************************************************

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Forced to use MS in schools?
by Alan Harris 28 Nov '01

28 Nov '01

Hi all, thought you guys/gals might be interested in this little conversation of mine regarding the transfer of exam entry data via edi with dialnet :- -----Original Message----- From: Alan Harris [mailto:alanh@bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk] Sent: 27 November 2001 12:43 To: sales(a)dialnet.com Subject: Dialnet EDT Service Hi there, I've just tried to access your information site with netscape 4.7 which failed to download your page properly, I can access the page with Mozilla and StarOffice. The School does not run Internet Explorer. Before I commit to your edt service and download any files can you confirm that your edt service will work properly without Internet Explorer being installed.... Many Thanks Alan -----reply from dialnet----- > Subject: RE: Dialnet EDT Service > Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:06:40 -0000 > From: "Moran, Gary" <Gary.Moran(a)dialnet.co.uk> > To: "'alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk'" <alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk> > > Alan > > as stated in the Requirements, WebXchange requires Internet Explorer 4 or > greater. The reason is explained on the Support page: > > Q: Why can't I use the Netscape web browser? > A: WebXchange uses Microsoft's Active-X technology to allow the transparent > transfer of files from and to your computer hard drive, which Netscape > browsers do not natively support. > > And to expand on this, although we could achieve this using alternative > technology that would be "Netscape friendly", there is no commercial > incentive for us to pursue this. Since the service has been available (March > 2000 in beta), yours is only the third inquiry concerning Netscape > compatibility. > > The WebXchange web site's external pages lists the general requirements, and > the specific requirements of the active x component (under Downloads). In > general your browser must be running on an IBM compatible PC under a 32bit > Windows OS (95, 98, 2000, XP, NT4). Your browser must support DHTML for the > WebXchange menu, and must support Active X components. > > Regards, Gary > > Gary Moran > Technical Services > DIALnet plc > > +44 (0)121 624 5059 ---------------- Any thoughts? Any one know of a suitable alternative - BT Connect no longer offer this service and I'd rather avoid an encounter with RM if possible.... Alan ----------------------------------------------------- Alan Harris Network Manager Bryngwyn School Tel : 01554 750661 Fax : 01554 758255 E-mail: alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk ----------------------------------------------------- Notes: 1. The contents of this email may be snooped on by interested government parties for unknown purposes! Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000. 2. The opinions expressed in this email are personal and may not be shared by Bryngwyn School. -----------------------------------------------------

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Can Apache serve directories as a single archive file
by Jim Bews 28 Nov '01

28 Nov '01

We use a SUSE system here to archive spectra collected from NMR spectrometers. We therefore need to serve out the data for some of our users via the web (local users can use file sharing). BUT Each spectrum is saved as a directory contained a fair number of files. Is there a method of archiving directories on the fly, and serving the result as a single archive file (which could be decompressed by the client's web browser). The ideal would be to compress into a "sit" archive because most clients would be Macintoshes. OR Is there some other way to download a complete directory with basically a single click? Thanks for your feedback. Jim Bews - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Jim Bews, Computing Officer, School of Chemistry, Purdie Building, University of St. Andrews, St. Andrews, Fife, KY16 9ST Tel: 01334-463830 Email: j.r.bews(a)st-andrews.ac.uk Fax: 01334-463808 WWW: http://ch-www.st-andrews.ac.uk/staff/jrb/

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Fwd: [Wylug-discuss] Re: LINUX FOR SCHOOLS?
by Gary Stainburn 28 Nov '01

28 Nov '01

Hi all, appologies for those of you on both lists (I know there are a few of you), but this was posted to the WYLUG (http://www.wylug.org.uk) list by Jim Jackson. I thought there may be a few on this list that may be able to help. Gary On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Andrea Mountain wrote: > Dear Sir/Madam > > I am an undergraduate student at the University of Central Lancashire > studying Business Information Systems and Mathematics. As part of my > Honours degree, I must undertake a research project. The project concerns > the use of IT and implementation of Linux (if any) in UK schools. > > > Is anyone teaching using Linux or open source based software? > > Are there any schools, which use open source based software for > administration purposes? > > > I am also finding difficulty in locating any information within the > electronic catalogues. Can anyone help me with any pointers concerning > this project? > > Yours faithfully, > > amountain(a)uclan.ac.uk > > > Andrea Mountain > BSc BIS and Mathematics > Department of Business Information Management > University of Central Lancashire > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Gary Stainburn This email does not contain private or confidential material as it may be snooped on by interested government parties for unknown and undisclosed purposes - Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000

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resolv.conf file under suse 7.3 (a fix)
by Paul Sutton 28 Nov '01

28 Nov '01

Hi I have just installed Suse 7.3 and found that while internet dial up worked great, I got a host not found error in the web browser, anyway I managed to fix it and decided to post the fix to the group so others may benefit. The message given when clicking on internet dialer which told me I needed a /etc/resolv.conf file with the appropriate permissions. I was told to ask my system admin to do this, (this is great if the user is in a establishment where there is one, but for home users and beginners it can cause a slight problem). I created this (as root), and tried again and the problem was still there, looking at the permissions I had -rw-r--r-- with the owner as root. so I decided to change this to -rw-rw-rw or if right clicking on the file and looking at the table it now gives. Class read write exec user x x group x x others x x (this should be chmod 666 resolv.conf) this now seems to work, just by adding write permission to group and others. I am using the konquror browser, and can now look at web pages. I hope this is of help to anyone in the group who may be experiencing problems. Paul

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I fixed my graphical login...THANKS
by Matt Johnson 28 Nov '01

28 Nov '01

Um...it's like this... It's fixed, but I don't see the connection between solution and problem. I get my hostname from DHCP. I put in the name that my computer is always assigned by DHCP from NTL broadband into /etc/hosts. Luckily I am always assigned the same IP (so that's fixed information too)! Surely there's another way? Isn't there some doohicky that adds this data each boot? What if my IP changed each boot? AND what on earth does this have to do with GDM not working, and why did KDM work all the way through? Someone please muster an explanation. I'm glad it works, but I'm trying to learn about how this all slots together. Obviously a big thanks for all those who offered advice. The localhost 127.0.0.1 contribution set me a thinking! -- Matt __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

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I broke my graphical login...
by Matt Johnson 27 Nov '01

27 Nov '01

No, X -query 127.0.0.1 gives a grey screen with a big cross cursor. Then an error messagee: localhost rejected client, or similar. /etc/hosts does have the necessary loopback device listed. -- Matt __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] I broke my graphical login...
by Simon Wood 27 Nov '01

27 Nov '01

> -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Brown [SMTP:mbrown@fensystems.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 8:26 PM > To: SuSe > Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] I broke my graphical login... > > Hey, that was me and it was a useful test! :-) > > We now know that X is working and that gdm is listening for XDMCP but is > not accepting any connections. Name resolution has (just about) been > eliminated as a potential cause and this is useful because name resolution > accounts for approximately 50% of all problems. I don't know about the > internals of GDM, but it seems as though it's an access control issue. > Does GDM use xdm's configuration files or does it have its own? [Simon Wood] Has someone suggested checking /usr/X11/libb/X11/xdm/Xservers (or the gdm equivalent)? It needs a line in specifying the 'local' xserver - something like '0: local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0 vt07'. You can run xdm/gdm on a machine without a local Xserver, so that only remote machines have a graphical interface. Also has whoever had the problem tried dropping back to xdm (in /etc/rc.config). Does this have the same problem? Simon W.

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CHEST Agreements, MS Licences etc...
by Rod McCall 26 Nov '01

26 Nov '01

Hi, In light of the current Microsoft licence changes I am curious to know what experience people have had with other schemes, namely the CHEST one? Runtime is currently considering placing its cross-platform development tool Revolution on the CHEST scheme, and would appreciate any comments people have on their experiences of pricing and the overall CHEST concept. Kind regards, rod Rod McCall <rodmc(a)runrev.com> <http://www.runrev.com> Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165 FREE Download available from our website.

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] I broke my graphical login
by Michael Brown 26 Nov '01

26 Nov '01

On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Matt Johnson wrote: > > What happens when you try to start up X manually? > > Log in as root to a > > text console and type "X". If all goes well, you > > should get the horrible > > grey-diamond background pattern and an X mouse > > cursor that you can move > > around. Press Ctrl-Alt-Bksp to return to the text > > console. > I can't get to the machine until later, but when I > type startx, it starts up fine (Gnome). Then logout > takes me back to bash prompt. > I'll try just 'X' and report back, unless this answers > your question. That answers the question, thanks. Now can you tell me what happens if you try "X -query 127.0.0.1"? Make sure you have an /etc/hosts entry for localhost e.g. 127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost Michael

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I broke my graphical login
by Matt Johnson 26 Nov '01

26 Nov '01

Folks, I seem to have broken GDM! I have a RedHat 7.2 box here, and all was working fine. Until yesterday, I had a shiny graphical login (GDM). Now when I boot I get a text login. I've tried to get around this in the following ways: I've typed 'init 5'. It thinks it's already at init 5! I've typed 'init 3', and it's happy. Then typed 'init 5' - fails (with a red 'failed' by wine). Back to shell prompt. I've typed GDM after logging in, and it reports it's already running! So I killall GDM, and type GDM again. Nothing. So I try KDM - that works! BUT, I want a graphical login from the word go, not after loging in as root to start KDM (and I'd rather use GDM anyhoo). I'm not bothered about this bit, unless it's linked to the graphical login problem... When I start Gnome, it reports that it couldn't look up a hostname for itself. It says to add a line to /etc/hosts, but I have DHCP client working from a cable modem, which has been fine until now. And, I can still use the net as usual, so it's working (right?). 1) What logs do I check (where are they?) 2) Erm...what do I do to fix it? (KDM would be okay, but GDM would be better) Much thanks in advance... -- Matt __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

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RE: MS licencing
by Chris Puttick 26 Nov '01

26 Nov '01

Dear Mr Griffith While I appreciate the demands placed upon IT Managers in the public sector, creation of a super-deal with Microsoft does not solve the problem of software licencing costs. Any deal struck will be under the new Microsoft-focused annual licence scheme and will therefore require renewal in the medium term, moving yet further amounts of taxpayers money away from the provision of best value public services into the coffers of an already rich corporation. It seems to me that if SOCITM wants to assist its members and the public services they support, then it should be assisting its members in implementing any lower cost alternatives that exist, rather than perpetuating the pay per licence myth. Such a move on the part of public services en masse would result in more money being available to remunerate the IT Staff at a more realistic level, while simultaneously providing more money to be invested in the hardware infrastructure, resulting in faster, more reliable information flow both internally and from the public services to their stakeholders. Regards Chris Puttick -----Original Message----- From: Bob Griffith To: Chris Puttick Sent: 11/23/01 10:10 PM Subject: Re: MS licencing Dear Mr Puttick, Our Members are faced with a demand from Microsoft and if SOCITM takes no action then substantial sums will be paid from the public purse. SOCITM is therefore taking action to try to reduce the amounts paid to Microsoft by our members under their licensing arrangements to which they are committed. Any proposals made by SOCITM will be completely legal. Bob Griffith National Secretary www.socitm.gov.uk <http://www.socitm.gov.uk> 01604 674800 ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris <mailto:chris@centralmanclc.com> Puttick To: 'bobg(a)socitm.gov.uk' <mailto:'bobg(a)socitm.gov.uk'> Cc: 'suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com' <mailto:'suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com'> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 4:47 PM Subject: MS licencing Dear Sir With regard to the press release concerning global Microsoft licencing: any such deal would not only contravene public sector financial regulations regarding tendering for contracts, but would not be best value for UK tax and ratepayers. There are a number of effective alternatives to MS products in all areas, and many of these alternatives are available at minimal or no capital cost. Some even come with a licensing structure that allows unlimited use, which would eliminate IT administration cost associated with software audits. Further, many of the alternative products have performance and security advantages over their MS equivalents, lacking competitiveness only in the marketing departments. For a "professional association for ICT managers working in and for the public sector" to be promoting the hand-over of large amounts of taxpayers money to any company without due consideration for alternatives or the requirements of the public sector financial regulations is unacceptable. As a representative body you have a responsibility to be doing the exact opposite. I look forward to your response. Yours faithfully Chris Puttick IT Manager Central Manchester City Learning Centre

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Cygnus and all that SUSE vs RH etc
by James & Cybèle 23 Nov '01

23 Nov '01

Thanks again for all advice Followed /etc/X11/xdm/Xaccess ...nothing there finally found it under /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/Xaccess. So all I need to do is remove the #........ Is this another example of a diff between SuSE and RH or a diff between SuSE and everyone else? James Carter

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You
by ptaylor 23 Nov '01

23 Nov '01

Hi all: In response to Thomas Adams, I was using YOU to update and as I said this does work on my homemachine using 7.2 but at school I am going through a proxy. I was also using SuSE as a proxy and that would not update. The school has decommissioned the SuSE box and I am now going straight out to the RM server which is using Squid by the messages I get. I have not tried to look at the messages yet but will if I get some time next week. It is not that critical as I have not implemented the Linux machines full time but will soon and it is a nice illustration to kids of the upgradeability of Linux. I'll lookat the messagesand get back. I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced this. Paul

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FTP to Internet from win98
by James & Cybèle 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

What setting do I need to tweak to allow one of my win98 machines to FTP to the internet. Can FTP to the server but not further. James C

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MS licencing
by Chris Puttick 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

Dear Sir With regard to the press release concerning global Microsoft licencing: any such deal would not only contravene public sector financial regulations regarding tendering for contracts, but would not be best value for UK tax and ratepayers. There are a number of effective alternatives to MS products in all areas, and many of these alternatives are available at minimal or no capital cost. Some even come with a licensing structure that allows unlimited use, which would eliminate IT administration cost associated with software audits. Further, many of the alternative products have performance and security advantages over their MS equivalents, lacking competitiveness only in the marketing departments. For a "professional association for ICT managers working in and for the public sector" to be promoting the hand-over of large amounts of taxpayers money to any company without due consideration for alternatives or the requirements of the public sector financial regulations is unacceptable. As a representative body you have a responsibility to be doing the exact opposite. I look forward to your response. Yours faithfully Chris Puttick IT Manager Central Manchester City Learning Centre

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Updates
by ptaylor 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

Hi all: I have 7.1 running on some machines here but they do not seem to work on the on-line update no matter what I try and I assume it is network related as I know it works at home with a modem. Any suggestions? More information supplied on request... Paul

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Red Hat Proposals
by Paul Munro 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

A couple of people here have been passing comments about the Red Hat offer to schools in the US I first read about these two nights ago whilst surfing, and passing by the Red Hat site (as I do often). I read the article there from a speech given by Red Hat and was amazed that they had stuck their necks out like this--an excellent way of showing Microsoft's settlement agreement for what it truly is--fluff with added bonus for themselves. Yes- it would be great if SuSE would do the same here and in the US; it would also be ideal if the "big" players in hardware would step in--especially those who apparently support Open Source software, like IBM, Compaq, HP, Sun. However, I would be very surprised if this happened, given that the likes of IBM consistently fail to offer their hardware very publicly at all with Linux installed or as an option (I got their catalogue today...not a word about Linux). "Hats" off to Red Hat, and here's hoping that MS are made red over this one!! Paul

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FW: [seul-edu] (FWD) Red Hat Proposes Alternative to Microsoft se ttlement
by Chris Puttick 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

Maybe SUSE should be doing something similar in NHS/Microsoft case... -----Original Message----- From: Roger Dingledine To: seul-edu(a)seul.org Sent: 11/21/01 1:00 AM Subject: [seul-edu] (FWD) Red Hat Proposes Alternative to Microsoft settlement It's really a shame that Microsoft is going to get away with further extending its monopoly as part of its "punishment". Ah well, --Roger ----- Forwarded message from "R. A. Hettinga" <rah(a)shipwright.com> ----- Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:07:00 -0800 Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications <CYBERIA-L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM> From: Doug Masson <dmasson(a)WELL.COM> Subject: Red Hat Proposes Alternative to Microsoft settlement I thought this was a nice piece of public relations from Red Hat: Subject: Red Hat proposes Alternative to Microsoft Settlement Red Hat Proposes to Enhance Microsoft Settlement Offer By Providing Open Source Software to All U.S. School Districts RESEARCH TRIANGLE PARK, N.C., Nov 20, 2001 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Open Source leader proposes to provide software to every school district in the United States if Microsoft provides computing hardware for the 14,000 poorest school districts Red Hat, Inc. (Nasdaq:RHAT) today proposed an alternative to the settlement announced today of the class-action lawsuit against Microsoft. Red Hat offered to provide open-source software to every school district in the United States free of charge, encouraging Microsoft to redirect the money it would have spent on software into purchasing more hardware for the 14,000 poorest school districts. Under the Red Hat proposal, by removing Microsoft's higher-priced software from the settlement equation, Microsoft could provide the school districts with many more computers--greatly extending the benefits Microsoft seeks to provide school districts with their proposed settlement. Microsoft had proposed that, in settlement of class-action claims of price-gouging, the company donate computer hardware, software and support to 14,000 poor school districts throughout the United States. Under the proposed settlement, a substantial part of the value provided to schools would be in the form of Microsoft software. The Red Hat's alternative proposal includes the following: -- Microsoft redirects the value of their proposed software donation to the purchase of additional hardware for the school districts. This would increase the number of computers available under the original proposal from 200,000 to more than one million, and would increase the number of systems per school from approximately 14 to at least 70. -- Red Hat, Inc. will provide free of charge the open-source Red Hat Linux operating system, office applications and associated capabilities to any school system in the United States. -- Red Hat will provide online support for the software through the Red Hat Network. -- Unlike the Microsoft proposal, which has a five-year time limit at which point schools would have to pay Microsoft to renew their licenses and upgrade the software, the Red Hat proposal has no time limit. Red Hat will provide software upgrades through the Red Hat Network online distribution channel. A Win-Win Approach The Red Hat proposal achieves two important goals: improving the quality and accessibility of computing education in the nation's less-privileged schools, and preventing the extension of Microsoft's monopoly to the most-vulnerable users. "While we applaud Microsoft for raising the idea of helping poorer schools as part of the penalty phase of their conviction for monopolistic practices, we do not think that the remedy should be a mechanism by which Microsoft can further extend its monopoly," said Matthew Szulik, CEO of Red Hat. "Through this proposal all of the states and all of the schools can win, and Microsoft will achieve even greater success for its stated goal of helping schools. By providing schools with a software choice, Red Hat will enable Microsoft to provide many more computers to these schools. At the same time, the schools can accept this offer secure in the knowledge that they have not rewarded a monopolist by extending the monopoly. It's now up to Microsoft to demonstrate that they are truly serious about helping our schools." General information about Red Hat's support for education is available at www.redhat.com/opensourcenow/. ********************************************************************** For Listserv Instructions, see http://www.lawlists.net/cyberia Off-Topic threads: http://www.lawlists.net/mailman/listinfo/cyberia-ot Need more help? Send mail to: Cyberia-L-Request(a)listserv.aol.com ********************************************************************** --- end forwarded text

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Health Service MS deal
by Ian 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

On Tuesday 20 November 2001 07:14, you wrote: > On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Mark Evans wrote: > > > As such, the principle of solidarity (i.e. that fact that the services > > > available to a person under the NHS bear no relationship to the amount > > > (if any) contributed by that person to the NHS by way of taxes or > > > National Insurance contributions) and the fact that the body in > > > question fulfils a purely social function is central to the question as > > > to whether or not that body is an undertaking. > > > As such, whether this might involve the purchase of, say, a renal > > > dialysis machine or the necessary computer software services required > > > for the general purpose of helping to run the NHS is irrelevant if the > > > purpose in both cases is to facilitate the overall objective of the NHS > > > - the provision of free healthcare services to society as a whole." > > > > But would this principle of "solidarity" not mean that there > > is a duty on the NHS to ensure that it spends money carefully. > > So as to maximise heathcare provision. > > I think that this is more relevant to the National Audit Office than the > OFT. Investigating value for money is definitely outside the OFT's remit, > whereas it is reasonable to expect them to investigate possible > anti-competitive deals. > > Didn't someone contact the NAO on the value for money issue? What was the > result? I did and I gat a reply recently which basically said they though the procedures followed were OK but then seemed to ignore their own guidance! I sent a reply and copied the lot to the Register. If anyone wants a copy I can post it here or send it by E-mail. I'm not particularly surprised. This is a long war of attrition so we need to keep plugging away and not be satisfied with answers that don't stand up to teast against their own criteria. -- IanL Open Source - save money - employ more teachers Use Star Office the free replacement for Microsoft Office -------------------------------------------------------

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Strategies?
by tom poe 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

Hi: Yesterday, I went over to the Parks and Recreation Rec Center at one of the city parks, and introduced myself. I indicated that I wanted to place 2 donated computers in their care, and to help them start a "Computer Club". The Plan is to put the computers in the Rec Center, and eventually build a "Computer Club" using volunteers from the local groups, e.g., Perl Users' group, LUG, etc. Anyone done anything similar, and, if so, how did it go? Suggestions? Thanks, Tom

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Re: Test
by Ruben Safir 21 Nov '01

21 Nov '01

On 2001.11.21 16:13:15 -0500 Ruben Safir wrote: >>k;k;kl;hgkjhgkhggfhgdf >> >>-- >>__________________________ >> >>Brooklyn Linux Solutions >>__________________________ >>http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting >>http://www.brooklynonline.com - For the love of Brooklyn >>http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software >>http://www.nyfairuse.org - The foundation of Democracy >>http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and >>articles from around the net >>http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/mp3/annie.mp3 - Armed and Dangerous.... >>http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown >>Brooklyn.... >> >>1-718-382-5752 >> >> >> >> -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.brooklynonline.com - For the love of Brooklyn http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www.nyfairuse.org - The foundation of Democracy http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/mp3/annie.mp3 - Armed and Dangerous.... http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-5752

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