April 2002 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Meeting yesterday and welcome to new members of the list
by Philip Hands 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Roger Whittaker <roger(a)suse-linux.co.uk> writes: > I've just subscribed various people to the list - please post a > message to say hello and introduce yourselves. Hi, If you were at the meeting, I was wearing a Debian t-shirt (with a red swirl logo on it) --- there's a photo at the top of this article, where I'm wearing similar stuff (except for the penguin ;-) http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/articles/issue6/lu6-Editorial-A_patently_bad_ide… I'm a Debian GNU/Linux developer, and run the UK Debian mirror, and am responsible for producing the Debian official CD images: http://www.uk.debian.org/ http://cdimage.debian.org/ I have only a peripheral interest in educational matters, in that I've been frustrated in the past in my efforts to provide free computers (which were otherwise destined for a skip), but I can certainly contribute on a technical side, and having been involved in Debian (which is completely voluntary, like OSIE is expected to be) since 1996 I may be able to make some suggestions about how to ``organise'' such a thing. For those of you who've not come across Debian before, we're a world-wide voluntary organisation (read, chaotic jumble of mailing lists) that puts together a Linux distribution (and soon a HURD distribution) and gives it away. Debian doesn't pay people to do this, and doesn't sell what it produces, and in most legal senses doesn't really exist (i.e. the machines in the mirror network mostly belong to people like me, rather than to Debian, and the bandwidth is donated rather than paid for). This probably gives a pretty good feel for what Debian is all about: http://www.uk.debian.org/social_contract which you will notice leads into the The Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG), which is where the Open Source Definition came from. My internet machine, that hosts the Debian UK mirror, may be of use to OSIE, since it has about 30GB of spare disk, and a 20Mbit/s connection at a well connected ISP. This machine could act as either a primary host or mirror site for the web site, and could do DNS secondarying etc. as well. Something I'd be interested in working on (although perhaps a SuSE list is not the right place to spend too much time discussing this ;-) would be producing Debian CD images, tuned to the needs of educational users. Debian has accumulated some funds in the UK, and have been looking for a worthwhile cause to spend them on (we never really need to pay for anything that actually makes Debian work, so don't have much use for money), so we could probably afford to have a few thousand CDs pressed, and send them out to schools that are interested. Cheers, Phil. -- Say no to software patents! http://petition.eurolinux.org/ Philip Hands. +44 (0)20 7744 6244 philip.hands(a)uk.alcove.com Alcove UK --- Liberating Software --- http://www.alcove.com/ http://www.hands.com/ phil(a)hands.com http://www.uk.debian.org/

5 4

RE NHS Meeting - Bill and Tony
by Alan Harris 18 Sep '02

18 Sep '02

Hi all thought this might be of interest to some of you :- <my email> > Subject: Microsoft and the British Government - Possible Anti-Competitive Behaviour > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:04:20 +0100 > From: alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk > To: Erkki.Liikanen(a)cec.eu.int > > Hi, > > I write regarding the current negotiations between the British > Government and Microsoft in which, to date, Microsoft have been awarded > a contract to supply the National Health Service with some 60 Million > (£)'s worth of software licenses. > > I would be grateful if you could inform me of the current state of the > anti-competition investigation being undertaken by the EU against > Microsoft, as it appears that more such deals (like that for the NHS) > are in the pipeline. As the commisioner with responsibility for the > Information Society I am sure that you are well aware of the potential > for damage being created by such actions. > > Many Thanks > > Alan </my email> <commisioners response> > Subject: RE: Microsoft and the British Government - Possible Anti-Competit ive Behaviour > Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:08:31 +0100 > From: Erkki.Liikanen(a)cec.eu.int > To: alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk > CC: Mario.Monti(a)cec.eu.int, Marc.Van-Hoof(a)cec.eu.int, Olli.Rehn(a)cec.eu.int, Per.Haugaard(a)cec.eu.int > > Dear. Mr. Harris, > > I pass your letter to my colleague Mario Monti and his cabinet. He is > responsible for this issue. > But still, during investigation I don't believe much more can be said what > has been in public. > > with best regards > > Erkki Liikanen > > ******************************** > Mr. Erkki Liikanen > Member of the Commission > tel. +32-2-295.79.57 > fax +32-2-295.85.61 > erkki.liikanen(a)cec.eu.int > secretary; kirsi.larjava(a)cec.eu.int > tel. +32-2-295.14.40 > http://europa.eu.int/comm/commissioners/liikanen/index_en.htm > </commissiones response> There may be hope for all of us then? Alan ----------------------------------------------------- Alan Harris Network Manager Bryngwyn School Tel : 01554 750661 Fax : 01554 758255 E-mail: alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk ----------------------------------------------------- Notes: 1. The contents of this email may be snooped on by interested government parties for unknown purposes! Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000. 2. The opinions expressed in this email are personal and may not be shared by Bryngwyn School. -----------------------------------------------------

4 8

NT Licences
by Derek Harding 30 Apr '02

30 Apr '02

My old school is about to ditch Novell because it can't afford the licences anymore. The organisation want to move to NT because they can get an educational deal on the licencing. I seem to recall someone pointed out a hidden "benefit" spider trap in the MS Educational licencing process but was it only about XP? I need answers really quickly, please, 'cos they make their decisions without planning! -- Best wishes, Derek

5 4

Fwd: [seul-edu] Fwd: [GKD] SchoolNet: Computers for Schools in Thailand
by paul Sutton 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

Thought this would be interesting. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [seul-edu] Fwd: [GKD] SchoolNet: Computers for Schools in Thailand Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 00:11:59 -0700 From: tom poe <tompoe(a)renonevada.net> To: "CommStudios" <community_studios(a)lists.ibiblio.org> Cc: "SuSESchools" <suse-schools-usa(a)suse.com>, seul-edu(a)seul.org ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [GKD] SchoolNet: Computers for Schools in Thailand Date: Thu, Apr 25, 2002 11:20 AM +0530 From: Frederick Noronha <fred(a)bytesforall.org> To: gkd(a)phoenix.edc.org THAI TALES: TAKING COMPUTERS TO SCHOOLS COMPUTERS FOR SCHOOLS and websites for students. That's the dream of an ambitious project being promoted in Thailand, known as SchoolNet. This project has notched up some impressive figures (some 4300 schools connected to SchoolNet, with some 1500 having their own websites). But that's only part of the story. How it worked its way to achieving its goal, including taking some bold steps like using the GNU/Linux Free Operating System to back up its plans, makes this project stand out from other ventures aimed at taking computers to schools. SchoolNet Thailand was launched by Bangkok's National Electronics and Computer Technology Centre (NECTEC) in 1995. Its goal: providing universal access to teachers and students. "Or, more specifically, schools all over the country can access the network via a dial-up modem, using access number 1509, and pay only three Bath per call," says its promoters. It all started around 1995, initially just taking a piggyback-ride on the country's university network. "In the beginning, we just called in 50 leading schools, where they understood that having access to the Internet would be beneficial. We offered schools training that would allow them to start off with an Internet server," recalls Dr Thaweesak Koanantakool of Thailand. Dr Koanantakool, the US-educated director of the Bangkok-based National Electronics and Computer Technology Centre, told this writer that most of the schools initially chosen were located in his country's capital. In its first year, SchoolNet got 20 schools connected. "When news spread out, schools outside Bangkok said they wanted to use it. But they couldn't afford even a week's cost of the telephone line. So we asked them to work with a university close by their schools. But that was not convenient. In 1998, we introduced (the King's) Golden Jubilee Network, for the citizen to access an Intranet within Thailand for a year, without charge," he adds. Soon, this was scaled up to 1500, the maximum capacity of the access infrastructure, in 1999. That year, the Cabinet okayed expanding to 5000 schools. Under this plan, all secondary schools -- except those without electricity or telephone lines -- and over 1000 primary schools too, will have access to the Internet. Currently, there are some 4300 schools that are connected to SchoolNet, with approximately 1500 having their own websites. Why SchoolNet? The idea is that Internet access for schools throughout Thailand will mean that IT, and the Internet, could help create more equal opportunities in education. This could lead to boosting the educational standards of the country. But after the network infrastructure was successfully launched, it was found that the Internet was still hardly being used as a tool for education and learning in many schools. So, the programme's scope was extended to cover content-development and human-resource development. The latter meant training of teachers and trainers. Project authorities were "not happy with the way teachers and children made limited use of computers". So they decided to try and introduce more Thai-language content in the schools. Around the same time, Thailand also created a digital-library toolkit. This allows teachers to get on their work after undergoing a short training -- say of two hours or so. After this, the teachers can put up their own website or teaching material on the web. "Once it's on the web, anyone can access it. Teachers can mark themselves as the authors, and we will protect the content for them, so that they always own it. But the content can be used and reused by anyone (for educational purposes)," says he. Today, there are hundreds of teachers using this, resulting in thousands of web-pages being generated. "Ultimately, our aim is that every school can create new knowledge from existing ones, or what we called the Complete Knowledge Cycle," says Dr Koanantakool. "We allowed every school to use this nationwide network. We pay for Internet connection and internal bandwidth. We managed to provide for a capacity of 1500 schools in all. It's a sort of free ISP, but limited to schools," says Dr Koanantakool. What has their experience been? It varies a great deal. Some 10 to 15 schools proved to be really good. These institutions threw up great teachers who created content and activity for their students. Soon, some of these teachers were awarded at SchoolNet Day functions, so that they could act as really good role-models for teachers. A couple of years back, the project got their budget expanded to cater to some 5000 schools. Each schools is allotted 400 hours of connect-time. Capacities vary. Some small schools have just a single PC, large educational institutions have 400 to 500, says Dr Koanantakool. Old PCs that "barely run Windows" but allow for TCPIP connections work fine. "Even an old 486 could be used as a server, because the line-speed is slower than the CPU anyway. Many schools, which have a greater number of computers, run really great data centres," says Dr Koanantakool. Some teachers however remain "afraid" of computers. But, good schools know how to put even just a couple of computers in the library, then bookmark examples of good sites, and let students use the PC to search for information for their projects. Along the way, Thai computer scientists developed an easy-to-administer web-controlled GNU/Linux-based schools Internet server, he told this correspondent during a recent UNDP/APDIP workshop on using ICTs for development, held in the Malaysian capital of Kuala Lumpur. SchoolNet has developed a Linux School Internet Server (Linux SIS) to be promoted and distributed to schools "as a cheaper alternative to using an expensive server software". Since its introduction, Linux-SIS has been very popular in Thailand. Project implementors say this has been due to its "excellent documentation in the Thai language, its simple-to-install CD-ROM and web-based server management" that allow one to manage it without the need to know any UNIX commands. "SIS training courses are always in constant demand from schools looking for a reliable Internet server at the lowest cost," says Dr Koanantakool, who is director of Bangkok's electronics and computing centre NECTEC. (More info on the Linux-SIS at www.nectec.or.th/linux-sis/ ) "Initially we used Windows NT on a straightforward PC. Then, we developed the Linux schools Internet server. We now have our own software, running GNU/Linux, which is managed via the Web, using the Thai language. That means, to run it the user hardly need to know anything of Unix. This runs on just a PC. Compared to it, we could not afford a Sun Microsystem box and router for each school, for example," says Koanantakool. GNU/Linux and a simple PC allows the schools to run an FTP server and "virtually everything out of one box". Says he: "It's far cheaper too. You just get a modem, and put on Linux. Even an old PC can replace a router." "We started working first with the server side (using GNU/Linux) since the desktop is more difficult. One barrier was that almost nobody knows Unix commands (among school teachers in Thailand). So we wrote out a web-based simple admin system. This means, any school can run this after a very little training. There's hardly any need to talk to the GNU/Linux console (the terminal that requires difficult and initially complex commands). But, using the web, one can delete files and carry out other commands routinely needed," he adds. Koanantakool says the Thai language web-admin tool became "some kind of a breakthrough" that helped teachers to run a school network at the lowest cost. In addition, the Thai-language extension of the project started last year. Version 4.1 was released in March 2002. "When you boot the machine, it comes to a point that makes it seem like (a user-friendly version of) Windows. Many Thai computer companies are eager to pre load the Version 4.1 onto their computers, because they're afraid of anti-piracy campaigns. Since February, the Thai Language Extension (which calls itself Thalay, meaning 'Ocean' in the Thai language) has been making it to the headlines. Almost on a day to day basis," says a proud Dr Koanantakool with a smile. Incidentally, a 'Thai Junior Encyclopedia' has also been brought out, in both CD-Rom and Net versions. This involves cultural data collecting, the use of computers and software among cultural centre network groups in that country. "If left alone in a cyberspace dominated by English content, the language barrier will discourage most teachers and students from using the Internet," as the project promoters realise.' GLOBE is an activity that allows teachers and students in SchoolNet@1509 (the four-digit number is used to access this network) to collaborate with their counterparts across the globe. Schools take part in the Internet-based global education programme called ThinkQuest (www.thinkquest.org). This provides a highly motivating opportunity for students and educators to work collaboratively in teams, and learn as they create material while sharing with one another. This challenges young learners to create high quality, innovative and content-rich websites. One of the schools -- Sri Wittaya Paknam -- has a site that draws a hit rate higher than that of the Tourism Authority of Thailand, says Koanantakool, with a hard-to-hide smile. The teacher uses this site to teach English through the web. Say the project promoters, cautiously: "There is no guarantee whether SchoolNet Thailand will succeed in the long run. However, it is undeniable that this project has already made a significant impact on many schools in Thailand." More details at http://school.net.th/library -- Frederick Noronha * Freelance Journalist * Goa * India 832.409490 / 409783 BYTESFORALL www.bytesforall.org * GNU-LINUX http://linuxinindia.pitas.com Email fred(a)bytesforall.org * SMS 9822122436(a)attcell.net * Saligao Goa India Writing with a difference... on what makes *the* difference ------------ ***GKD is solely supported by EDC, an NGO that is a GKP member*** To post a message, send it to: <gkd(a)mail.edc.org> To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message to: <majordomo(a)mail.edc.org>. In the 1st line of the message type: subscribe gkd OR type: unsubscribe gkd Archives of previous GKD messages can be found at: <http://www.edc.org/GLG/gkd/> ------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------

1 0

Re: [DMCA_Discuss] WIPOUT ANNOUNCES CONTEST WINNERS
by tom poe 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

Hi: I hope this gets widespread publicity. I mean, widespread! Required reading for CARP, RIAA, Congress, Disney. Every one of them should be required to respond to each essay. Then, we hang 'em by their toes. Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Friday 26 April 2002 09:15, Jon O. wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from Alan Story <a.c.story(a)ukc.ac.uk> ----- > > Reply-To: <a.c.story(a)ukc.ac.uk> > From: "Alan Story" <a.c.story(a)ukc.ac.uk> > Subject: WIPOUT ANNOUNCES CONTEST WINNERS > Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:34:43 +0100 > > Press release from WIPOUT contact(a)wipout.net > > 26 April 2002 www.wipout.net > > WIPOUT ANNOUNCES ITS CONTEST WINNERS > > WIPOUT, the international intellectual property counter-essay contest, > today announces its eleven winners on the day that has been tagged World > Intellectual Property Day by the World Intellectual Property Organisation > (WIPO). > > The winners, selected by an international panel of judges, live in six > countries across the globe and submitted essays in four different > languages: English, French, German, and Spanish. They are named below and > are also available on the WIPOUT web site at: www.wipout.net > > The obvious interest in the counter-essay contest and the high quality of > the entries show that a growing number of people are dissenting from WIPOs > dangerous stance that more and more extensive protection of more and more > forms of intellectual property is a good thing, the WIPOUT co-chairs > stated today. > > A total of 77 essays were submitted from 18 countries in response to the > question: WHAT DOES INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY MEAN TO YOU IN YOUR DAILY LIFE? > > Earlier in 2001, WIPO, a United Nations organisation, had set up an essay > contest that asked the same question. But WIPOUT organisers decided that a > WIPO-sponsored contest would fail to appreciate the damage that the > over-protection of intellectual property is doing to education, health > care, the environment, and economic security for millions around the globe. > > As Noam Chomsky, one of the more than 50 individuals and groups who > endorsed WIPOUT said, this counter contest reminds people that this harsh > regime [of intellectual property rights] is designed to grant multinational > corporations control over the technology of the futureit really is a > scandal. (The complete list of contest endorsers can be found at: > http://www.wipout.net/endorsers.html ). > > All of the 77 essays submitted, including the winning essays, are available > on the WIPOUT site, www.wipout.net .The essays to WIPOUT came from the USA, > UK, Republic of South Africa, Canada, Sweden, Finland, Germany, Japan, > Australia, Greece, Russian Federation, Sri Lanka, Switzerland, Netherlands, > New Zealand, France, People's Republic of China and Bulgaria. > > Among other issues, the 77 essays reveal: > > - how illiterate persons in South Africa are required to pay copyright > royalty fees if they wish to learn to readand hence dont get the > opportunity. > - how the conductor of a volunteer church choir in the United States could > not lead his choir in a proper public performance, again because of > copyright restrictions; > - how drug patents are blocking access to desperately needed anti HIV/AIDS > drugsand again, how copyright royalties are charged for anti-HIV health > materials; > - how the TRIPS agreement is turning into a cruel hoax for countries of the > South; > - how IP laws are transforming the Internet into a restrictive, user-pay > experience. > - how the patenting of plants and genes is doing great damages to the > interests of farmers and consumers. > > Among the contributions are poems, drawings, short stories, fictional IP > nightmare scenarios of coming years, calls to action, parodies, > historical explorations, and theoretical critiques of intellectual > property. > > Each of the winners will receive a small financial prize from the WIPOUT > prize fund that was created primarily through a generous donation from the > Center for the Public Domain in the United States. > > Our small group of volunteers hardly has the financial or publicity > resources of WIPO, which is housed in palatial head offices beside Lake > Geneva in Switzerland, and so we think it was a good accomplishment to get > 50% of number of essays that WIPOs contest received. WIPO is also > announcing its essay contest winners today. > > WIPOUT is an international organisation consisting of academics, artists, > musicians and other activists. Future projects and programmes are now under > discussion. > > The WIPOUT contest started on 4 September 2001 and concluded on 15 March > 2002. > > Today WIPOUT celebrates the winners, but the competitive aspect of the > contest was always secondary to the purpose of giving a platform to the > voices who disagree with the constant expansion of intellectual property > protection. > > > > NAMES OF WIPOUT CONTEST WINNERS, TITLES OF THEIR ESSAYS, AND THEIR LOCATION > (THE NAMES ARE LISTED IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER.) > > > NAMES OF WIPOUT CONTEST WINNERS, TITLES OF THEIR ESSAYS, AND THEIR LOCATION > (THE NAMES ARE LISTED IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER.) > > ENGLISH-LANGUAGE WINNERS > > John Cahir, ON CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE AND POLITICAL ACTION, London, United > Kingdom. http://www.wipout.net/essays/0113cahir.htm > > Jason Holt, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AFFECTS MY LIFE, Provo, Utah, United > States of America. http://www.wipout.net/essays/0216holt.htm > > Eddan Elizafon Katz, MY FIRST SEVEN DAYS ON THE INTERNET, Oakland, > California, United States of America. > http://www.wipout.net/essays/0315katz.htm > > Vijaya Kumar, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS AN OBSTACLE TO DEVELOPMENT?, > Dangolia, Kandy, Sri Lanka. > http://www.wipout.net/essays/0314kumar.htm > > Denise Nicholson, DOES COPYRIGHT HAVE ANY SIGNIFANCE IN THE LIVES OF > ILLITERATE OR VISUALLY-IMPAIRED PERSONS?, Johannesburg, South > Africa.http://www.wipout.net/essays/1128nicholson.htm > > Percy Schmeiser, GENETIC CONTAMINATION AND FARMERS RIGHTS, Bruno, > Saskatchewan, Canada. http://www.wipout.net/essays/0904schmeiser.htm > > Louise Szente, THE CROW AND THE OWL, Durban, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa. > http://www.wipout.net/essays/1112szente.htm > > Philip Tagg, COPYRIGHT VS. THE DEMOCRATIC RIGHT TO KNOW, Liverpool, United > Kingdom. http://www.wipout.net/essays/1112tagg.htm > > > FRENCH-LANGUAGE WINNER > > Alexandre Pirsch, ANTHROPOLOGIE ET DROITS D'AUTEUR: (D)ÉCRIRE L'AUTRE ET LE > (DÉ)POSSÉDER (ANTHROPOLOGY AND COPYRIGHT: > HOW "WRITING" CAN DEPRIVE THE OTHER OF HIS/HER RIGHTS.) Montreal, Quebec, > Canada. http://www.wipout.net/essays/0315pirsch.htm > > > GERMAN-LANGUAGE WINNER > > Alesch Staehelin, SUCHE NACH BILLIGEN AIDS-MEDIKAMENTEN (THE SEARCH FOR > CHEAP AIDS DRUGS ) Venice, California, United States. > http://www.wipout.net/essays/0310staehelin.htm > > SPANISH-LANGUAGE WINNER > Juan Mateos Garcia, DERECHOS DE PROPIEDAD INTELECTUAL Y ESPACIOS DE > INFORMACIÓN PÚBLICA (INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS AND THE INFORMATION > COMMONS ), Salamanca, Spain. http://www.wipout.net/essays/1012garcia.htm > > > NOTE TO NEWS EDITORS: > > 1. More details of the contest are available on the Wipout website at: > www.wipout.net > > 2. If you would like to arrange an interview or have further questions > about WIPOUT, here are the persons to contact: > > IN THE UNITED KINGDOM - > > Alan Story Dr Lee Marshall > Kent Law School Department of Sociology > University of Kent University College Worcester > Canterbury Henwick Grove > Kent CT2 7NS Worcester WR2 6AJ > 44 (0)1227 823316 44 (0)1905 855312 > a.c.story(a)ukc.ac.uk l.marshall(a)worc.ac.uk > > IN THE UNITED STATES : > > Debora Halbert > Associate Professor of Political Science > Otterbein College > Dept. of History and Political Science > Westerville OH 43081 > (614) 823-1559 > DHalbert(a)otterbein.edu > > IN AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND > > Brian Martin > Science, Technology & Society > University of Wollongong, NSW 2522 > Australia > phone +61-2-4221 3763 work, > fax +61-2-4221 3452 > brian_martin(a)uow.edu.au > > 3. Details of the WIPO contest can be found at: > http://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/alert/2001/ma03rev.htm > > > Press release issued by WIPOUT, The Intellectual Property Counter Essay > Contest contact(a)wipout.net > > > > > > Alan Story > WIPOUT > contact(a)wipout.net > > > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_Discuss mailing list > DMCA_Discuss(a)lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss

1 0

Growing Acorns...
by michael Parker 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

hello all, I've been speaking to a lot of schools and despite efforts of the local council to deny that they exist, there are still many, many Acron RiscOS machines in schools all over the land. ive seen in a previous post a link to www.felsted.essex.sch.uk which demonstrates the widest range of networked machines I think Ive seen, including BBC electrons, Archimedes, macs and pcs. Does anyone have anym experience of turning RiscOS machines into more useful beasts? ive seen some heartwarming displays of riscOS development still very much underway - games, educational software (lots), updated office packages, even a version 4 of riscOS - which is great, but i think they'd do better as xterminals. any thoughts? michael -- Michael Parker ----- AstariX Alternative Solutions www.astarix.co.uk _______________________________________________________________ Linux and open source solutions -- servers - desktop - security _______________________________________________________________

1 0

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] FW: [Fsfe-uk] Government to become MS's biggest biztalk customer
by Edgehill e-mail service 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

The words /glove puppet/ spring to mind. I used to make mine out of old socks. I suspect that this sock is being operated through a proxy sock somewhere in the US. Have you ever noticed that the lip-sync is out? And since when dis a REAL PM ever say "Gread ang gutter ang a gottle og gear"? Egad! What an awful thought! ---------- From: Chris Puttick <chris(a)centralmanclc.com> To: 'suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com' Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] FW: [Fsfe-uk] Government to become MS's biggest biztalk customer Date: 25 April 2002 11:23 -----Original Message----- From: Richard Smedley To: AFFS Sent: 4/24/02 6:44 PM Subject: [Fsfe-uk] Government to become MS's biggest biztalk customer See http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25003.html President Blair has set a deadline of 2005 for all gov depts and all local authorities to join the government Gatesway architecture by buying boxes running Windows 2000 Advanced Server, SQL Server 2000 and Biztalk Server. So much for consultation processes :-( - Richard -- Richard Smedley Production Editor, Linux Format Telephone +44 (0) 1225 442244 ext 5038 _______________________________________________ Fsfe-uk mailing list Fsfe-uk(a)gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-uk

2 1

Fwd: [GKD] SchoolNet: Computers for Schools in Thailand
by tom poe 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [GKD] SchoolNet: Computers for Schools in Thailand Date: Thu, Apr 25, 2002 11:20 AM +0530 From: Frederick Noronha <fred(a)bytesforall.org> To: gkd(a)phoenix.edc.org THAI TALES: TAKING COMPUTERS TO SCHOOLS COMPUTERS FOR SCHOOLS and websites for students. That's the dream of an ambitious project being promoted in Thailand, known as SchoolNet. This project has notched up some impressive figures (some 4300 schools connected to SchoolNet, with some 1500 having their own websites). But that's only part of the story. How it worked its way to achieving its goal, including taking some bold steps like using the GNU/Linux Free Operating System to back up its plans, makes this project stand out from other ventures aimed at taking computers to schools. SchoolNet Thailand was launched by Bangkok's National Electronics and Computer Technology Centre (NECTEC) in 1995. Its goal: providing universal access to teachers and students. "Or, more specifically, schools all over the country can access the network via a dial-up modem, using access number 1509, and pay only three Bath per call," says its promoters. It all started around 1995, initially just taking a piggyback-ride on the country's university network. "In the beginning, we just called in 50 leading schools, where they understood that having access to the Internet would be beneficial. We offered schools training that would allow them to start off with an Internet server," recalls Dr Thaweesak Koanantakool of Thailand. Dr Koanantakool, the US-educated director of the Bangkok-based National Electronics and Computer Technology Centre, told this writer that most of the schools initially chosen were located in his country's capital. In its first year, SchoolNet got 20 schools connected. "When news spread out, schools outside Bangkok said they wanted to use it. But they couldn't afford even a week's cost of the telephone line. So we asked them to work with a university close by their schools. But that was not convenient. In 1998, we introduced (the King's) Golden Jubilee Network, for the citizen to access an Intranet within Thailand for a year, without charge," he adds. Soon, this was scaled up to 1500, the maximum capacity of the access infrastructure, in 1999. That year, the Cabinet okayed expanding to 5000 schools. Under this plan, all secondary schools -- except those without electricity or telephone lines -- and over 1000 primary schools too, will have access to the Internet. Currently, there are some 4300 schools that are connected to SchoolNet, with approximately 1500 having their own websites. Why SchoolNet? The idea is that Internet access for schools throughout Thailand will mean that IT, and the Internet, could help create more equal opportunities in education. This could lead to boosting the educational standards of the country. But after the network infrastructure was successfully launched, it was found that the Internet was still hardly being used as a tool for education and learning in many schools. So, the programme's scope was extended to cover content-development and human-resource development. The latter meant training of teachers and trainers. Project authorities were "not happy with the way teachers and children made limited use of computers". So they decided to try and introduce more Thai-language content in the schools. Around the same time, Thailand also created a digital-library toolkit. This allows teachers to get on their work after undergoing a short training -- say of two hours or so. After this, the teachers can put up their own website or teaching material on the web. "Once it's on the web, anyone can access it. Teachers can mark themselves as the authors, and we will protect the content for them, so that they always own it. But the content can be used and reused by anyone (for educational purposes)," says he. Today, there are hundreds of teachers using this, resulting in thousands of web-pages being generated. "Ultimately, our aim is that every school can create new knowledge from existing ones, or what we called the Complete Knowledge Cycle," says Dr Koanantakool. "We allowed every school to use this nationwide network. We pay for Internet connection and internal bandwidth. We managed to provide for a capacity of 1500 schools in all. It's a sort of free ISP, but limited to schools," says Dr Koanantakool. What has their experience been? It varies a great deal. Some 10 to 15 schools proved to be really good. These institutions threw up great teachers who created content and activity for their students. Soon, some of these teachers were awarded at SchoolNet Day functions, so that they could act as really good role-models for teachers. A couple of years back, the project got their budget expanded to cater to some 5000 schools. Each schools is allotted 400 hours of connect-time. Capacities vary. Some small schools have just a single PC, large educational institutions have 400 to 500, says Dr Koanantakool. Old PCs that "barely run Windows" but allow for TCPIP connections work fine. "Even an old 486 could be used as a server, because the line-speed is slower than the CPU anyway. Many schools, which have a greater number of computers, run really great data centres," says Dr Koanantakool. Some teachers however remain "afraid" of computers. But, good schools know how to put even just a couple of computers in the library, then bookmark examples of good sites, and let students use the PC to search for information for their projects. Along the way, Thai computer scientists developed an easy-to-administer web-controlled GNU/Linux-based schools Internet server, he told this correspondent during a recent UNDP/APDIP workshop on using ICTs for development, held in the Malaysian capital of Kuala Lumpur. SchoolNet has developed a Linux School Internet Server (Linux SIS) to be promoted and distributed to schools "as a cheaper alternative to using an expensive server software". Since its introduction, Linux-SIS has been very popular in Thailand. Project implementors say this has been due to its "excellent documentation in the Thai language, its simple-to-install CD-ROM and web-based server management" that allow one to manage it without the need to know any UNIX commands. "SIS training courses are always in constant demand from schools looking for a reliable Internet server at the lowest cost," says Dr Koanantakool, who is director of Bangkok's electronics and computing centre NECTEC. (More info on the Linux-SIS at www.nectec.or.th/linux-sis/ ) "Initially we used Windows NT on a straightforward PC. Then, we developed the Linux schools Internet server. We now have our own software, running GNU/Linux, which is managed via the Web, using the Thai language. That means, to run it the user hardly need to know anything of Unix. This runs on just a PC. Compared to it, we could not afford a Sun Microsystem box and router for each school, for example," says Koanantakool. GNU/Linux and a simple PC allows the schools to run an FTP server and "virtually everything out of one box". Says he: "It's far cheaper too. You just get a modem, and put on Linux. Even an old PC can replace a router." "We started working first with the server side (using GNU/Linux) since the desktop is more difficult. One barrier was that almost nobody knows Unix commands (among school teachers in Thailand). So we wrote out a web-based simple admin system. This means, any school can run this after a very little training. There's hardly any need to talk to the GNU/Linux console (the terminal that requires difficult and initially complex commands). But, using the web, one can delete files and carry out other commands routinely needed," he adds. Koanantakool says the Thai language web-admin tool became "some kind of a breakthrough" that helped teachers to run a school network at the lowest cost. In addition, the Thai-language extension of the project started last year. Version 4.1 was released in March 2002. "When you boot the machine, it comes to a point that makes it seem like (a user-friendly version of) Windows. Many Thai computer companies are eager to pre load the Version 4.1 onto their computers, because they're afraid of anti-piracy campaigns. Since February, the Thai Language Extension (which calls itself Thalay, meaning 'Ocean' in the Thai language) has been making it to the headlines. Almost on a day to day basis," says a proud Dr Koanantakool with a smile. Incidentally, a 'Thai Junior Encyclopedia' has also been brought out, in both CD-Rom and Net versions. This involves cultural data collecting, the use of computers and software among cultural centre network groups in that country. "If left alone in a cyberspace dominated by English content, the language barrier will discourage most teachers and students from using the Internet," as the project promoters realise.' GLOBE is an activity that allows teachers and students in SchoolNet@1509 (the four-digit number is used to access this network) to collaborate with their counterparts across the globe. Schools take part in the Internet-based global education programme called ThinkQuest (www.thinkquest.org). This provides a highly motivating opportunity for students and educators to work collaboratively in teams, and learn as they create material while sharing with one another. This challenges young learners to create high quality, innovative and content-rich websites. One of the schools -- Sri Wittaya Paknam -- has a site that draws a hit rate higher than that of the Tourism Authority of Thailand, says Koanantakool, with a hard-to-hide smile. The teacher uses this site to teach English through the web. Say the project promoters, cautiously: "There is no guarantee whether SchoolNet Thailand will succeed in the long run. However, it is undeniable that this project has already made a significant impact on many schools in Thailand." More details at http://school.net.th/library -- Frederick Noronha * Freelance Journalist * Goa * India 832.409490 / 409783 BYTESFORALL www.bytesforall.org * GNU-LINUX http://linuxinindia.pitas.com Email fred(a)bytesforall.org * SMS 9822122436(a)attcell.net * Saligao Goa India Writing with a difference... on what makes *the* difference ------------ ***GKD is solely supported by EDC, an NGO that is a GKP member*** To post a message, send it to: <gkd(a)mail.edc.org> To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message to: <majordomo(a)mail.edc.org>. In the 1st line of the message type: subscribe gkd OR type: unsubscribe gkd Archives of previous GKD messages can be found at: <http://www.edc.org/GLG/gkd/> -------------------------------------------------------

1 0

Linux in Schools.
by Simon Wood 25 Apr '02

25 Apr '02

Wired is reporting that :- The poorest region of Spain has adopted Linux as the official operating system of public schools and offices, in hopes of improving the area's vast technological and economic lag. http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,51994,00.html When will our (UK) government realise that Billy isn't really their friend? Simon Wood

2 1

FW: [Fsfe-uk] Government to become MS's biggest biztalk customer
by Chris Puttick 25 Apr '02

25 Apr '02

-----Original Message----- From: Richard Smedley To: AFFS Sent: 4/24/02 6:44 PM Subject: [Fsfe-uk] Government to become MS's biggest biztalk customer See http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25003.html President Blair has set a deadline of 2005 for all gov depts and all local authorities to join the government Gatesway architecture by buying boxes running Windows 2000 Advanced Server, SQL Server 2000 and Biztalk Server. So much for consultation processes :-( - Richard -- Richard Smedley Production Editor, Linux Format Telephone +44 (0) 1225 442244 ext 5038 _______________________________________________ Fsfe-uk mailing list Fsfe-uk(a)gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-uk

1 0

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Connecting to samba from dos
by Stephen Ogden 23 Apr '02

23 Apr '02

>Has anybody got any experience of > >booting from a floppy yes >loading a tcp/ip stack no >and connecting to a samba server share? no >Thanks You're welcome > >Robin -- Azrael p.s. Sorry.. couldn't resist _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

1 0

Secondary Science software
by Chris Puttick 23 Apr '02

23 Apr '02

Hi Anyone aware of science curriculum software (like digital brain) that is (a) web-based and (b) open source? Failing that, we've got some interest in developing some on those criteria - we have manpower, internet server space and bandwidth. You bring developer skills, and/or curriculum knowledge and no summer holidays... documentation volunteers also welcome. Ian? Michael? You in? Open source thin client in secondary schools merely awaits such things... Cheers Chris

2 1

Connecting to samba from dos
by s-clarob＠st-aidans.cumbria.sch.uk 23 Apr '02

23 Apr '02

Has anybody got any experience of booting from a floppy loading a tcp/ip stack and connecting to a samba server share? Thanks Robin

3 2

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Banning internet access via netbios names
by s-clarob＠st-aidans.cumbria.sch.uk 23 Apr '02

23 Apr '02

>What's mostly needed is the ability to lockout individual pupils from the >Internet based on their 'User Login Name' and at particular times of the day >(during ICT and other lessons) rather than on the basis of locking out a >particular PC machine. I was wondering if there is any way of setting up >Internt Explorer or Netscape so that application checks for a file on the >server or a cookie (held in the user account area) that has to be present in >order for the browser to access the Internet at large? >David Bowles Use an ident server to tell squid who the user is, then use acls to block the user. For easier configuration use squidGuard Fo easier management of squidGuard use the webmin module. Rob

1 0

Banning internet access via netbios names
by N_Harris 22 Apr '02

22 Apr '02

We have squid running on a Proxy Server which works great, however we would like to be able to switch internet access off by the room. Ideally using the netbios names to identify the machines as we have come to the conclusion that using static IPs is impracticable. We would also like teachers to have access to switch this access on and off. Can anyone HELP! cheers Nathan Harris

5 4

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Banning internet access via netbios n ames
by Chris Puttick 22 Apr '02

22 Apr '02

Easy solution given you know the netbios names - add reservations on the DHCP scope for the particular machines, then block the ip addresses you've assigned. Now letting the teachers turn that on and off? Probably need to mess with Webmin. Cheers Chris -----Original Message----- From: N_Harris To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Sent: 22/04/2002 12:05 Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Banning internet access via netbios names We have squid running on a Proxy Server which works great, however we would like to be able to switch internet access off by the room. Ideally using the netbios names to identify the machines as we have come to the conclusion that using static IPs is impracticable. We would also like teachers to have access to switch this access on and off. Can anyone HELP! cheers Nathan Harris -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

1 0

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Accepting donated computers ...
by Edgehill e-mail service 22 Apr '02

22 Apr '02

---------- > From: Frank Shute <frank(a)esperance-linux.co.uk> > To: Mark Evans <mpe(a)st-peters-high.devon.sch.uk> > Cc: Schools List <suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com> > Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Accepting donated computers ... > Date: 21 April 2002 13:51 > > On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 11:44:06AM +0100, Mark wrote: > > > > > Have you seen: > > > http://www.microsoft.com/education/?id=DonatedComputers > > > > > > "If you feel it is in the best interest of your school to accept the > > > donated PCs, make sure that the hardware donation includes > > > the original operating system software. Keeping the operating > > > system with the PC is not just a great benefit - it is a legal > > > requirement." > > > > According of the way Microsoft thinks. Even if there was > > such a requirement it would be on the *doner* anyway. > > Leave kebabs out of this ;) > Weeeeel, M$ want to skewer your cash anyway! We could meat them halfway, but then, maybe not. (sorry !) > -- > > Frank > > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Boroughbridge. > Tel: 01423 323019 > --------- > PGP keyID: 0xC0B341A3 > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > > http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/ > > > Dare to be naive. > -- R. Buckminster Fuller > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com > For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com > >

2 1

RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] RM proxy server query
by Chris Puttick 22 Apr '02

22 Apr '02

Yes, several. I believe most popular is identd, see http://www.squid-cache.org/related-software.html under Ident Servers. Regards Chris -----Original Message----- From: Administrator To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Sent: 22/04/2002 09:50 Subject: RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] RM proxy server query We've got an RM Proxy too, but that isn't my question. Has anyone had any experience, or know of any way of getting Squid to log usernames? We're using Windows 95/98 (*spultter*) clients with the Squid proxy and, at the moment, its going through an NT proxy first, just so we can see exactly *who* was accessing which site. Any ideas? - I was tempted to do a lookup with the IP address and time/date, but it wouldn't really be very successful. Thanks in advance! Dug Stokes ICT Technician Gilberd School -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

1 0

RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] RM proxy server query
by Administrator 22 Apr '02

22 Apr '02

We've got an RM Proxy too, but that isn't my question. Has anyone had any experience, or know of any way of getting Squid to log usernames? We're using Windows 95/98 (*spultter*) clients with the Squid proxy and, at the moment, its going through an NT proxy first, just so we can see exactly *who* was accessing which site. Any ideas? - I was tempted to do a lookup with the IP address and time/date, but it wouldn't really be very successful. Thanks in advance! Dug Stokes ICT Technician Gilberd School

5 4

RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] RM proxy server query
by Administrator 22 Apr '02

22 Apr '02

> We've got an RM Proxy too, but that isn't my question. Has anyone had any > > experience, or know of any way of getting Squid to log usernames? We're > > using Windows 95/98 (*spultter*) clients with the Squid proxy and, at > > the moment, its going through an NT proxy first, just so we can see > > exactly *who* was accessing which site. > > > > Any ideas? - I was tempted to do a lookup with the IP address and > > time/date, but it wouldn't really be very successful. > > Install an identd server on the workstations (one which > bases what it returns on the logged in user) and enable > identd in squid. There seems to be a great one at http://identd.sourceforge.net/ - thanks very much!!! Now to pull apart the RM Proxy! Dug Stokes ICT Technician

1 0

Accepting donated computers ...
by Kevin Taylor 21 Apr '02

21 Apr '02

Have you seen: http://www.microsoft.com/education/?id=DonatedComputers "If you feel it is in the best interest of your school to accept the donated PCs, make sure that the hardware donation includes the original operating system software. Keeping the operating system with the PC is not just a great benefit - it is a legal requirement." Hmmm. Kevin.

3 2

RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Accepting donated computers ...
by Grainge, Derek 21 Apr '02

21 Apr '02

> Have you seen: > http://www.microsoft.com/education/?id=DonatedComputers > > "If you feel it is in the best interest of your school to accept the > donated PCs, make sure that the hardware donation includes > the original operating system software. Keeping the operating > system with the PC is not just a great benefit - it is a legal > requirement." Assuming the microsoft view of the world of OS, this comment makes perfect sense :-) -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of unacceptable material. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. Website: http://www.wellington-college.berks.sch.uk ********************************************************************************

1 0

Regions - where is everyone?
by mblackmore＠oxlug.org 20 Apr '02

20 Apr '02

I was just trying to get a regional sense of people hereabouts - I'm Oxford. Any other Oxonians or nearabouts folk?

3 2

Re: [suse-schools-usa] Fwd: [alg] Was in Linuxjournal now /.ed
by tom poe 19 Apr '02

19 Apr '02

On Thursday 18 April 2002 06:38, Andrew Choens wrote: If we set the boxes up so > they could tinker with, but not destroy the computers set-up, we might be > amazed what they could teach themselves. There are lots of community based > groups out there that might be interested in this sort of a plan. Hi: No problem, Andrew. They destroy, and fix, and support is available through volunteers. The malicious destruction isn't a big problem, I don't think. Could be wrong, but at the same time, I don't think there's a realistic solution that would lend itself to this issue. We'll just have to deal with it, and make sure the schools have support available. Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/

3 4

Re: [suse-schools-usa] Fwd: [alg] Was in Linuxjournal now /.ed
by tom poe 19 Apr '02

19 Apr '02

Hi, Jim: Wonderful article, and may be the most recommended reading for our entire world community, I think: http://www.worldccr.org/kids.htm Thanks, Tom Poe Reno, NV http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ On Thursday 18 April 2002 08:42, you wrote: > Sorry. Apparently me intended message failed the copy. The article concerns > what happens when a computer attached ti the internet is placed where > activity can be observed - remotely. Here is the article. I found it > interesting working with my school district on various performance seeking > projects. > > ### > > An Indian physicist puts a PC with a high speed > internet connection in a wall in the slums and watches what happens. Based > on the results, he talks about issues of digital divide, computer education > and kids, the dynamics of the third world getting online. > > New Delhi physicist Sugata Mitra has a radical > proposal for bringing his country's next generation into the Info Age > > from a Businessweek Online Daily > Briefing, March 2, 2000. > > Edited by Paul Judge > > Sugata Mitra has a PhD in physics and heads research efforts > at New Delhi's NIIT, a fast-growing software and education company with > sales of more than $200 million and a market cap over $2 billion. But > Mitra's passion is computer-based education, specifically for India's poor. > He believes that children, even terribly poor kids with little education, > can quickly teach themselves the rudiments of computer literacy. The key, > he contends, is for teachers and other adults to give them free rein, so > their natural curiosity takes over and they teach themselves. He calls the > concept "minimally invasive education." > > To test his ideas, Mitra 13 months ago launched something he > calls "the hole in the wall experiment." He took a PC connected to a > high-speed data connection and imbedded it in a concrete wall next to > NIIT's headquarters in the south end of New Delhi. The wall separates the > company's grounds from a garbage-strewn empty lot used by the poor as a > public bathroom. Mitra simply left the computer on, connected to the > Internet, and allowed any passerby to play with it. He monitored activity > on the PC using a remote computer and a video camera mounted in a nearby > tree. > > What he discovered was that the most avid users of the > machine were ghetto kids aged 6 to 12, most of whom have only the most > rudimentary education and little knowledge of English. Yet within days, the > kids had taught themselves to draw on the computer and to browse the Net. > Some of the other things they learned, Mitra says, astonished him. > > The physicist has since installed a computer in a rural > neighborhood with similar results. He's convinced that 500 million children > could achieve basic computer literacy over the next five years, if the > Indian government put 100,000 Net-connected PCs in schools and trained > teachers in some basic "noninvasive" teaching techniques for guiding > children in using them. Total investment required, he figures: Around $2 > billion. > > On Feb. 25, BW Online Contributing Editor Thane Peterson sat > down with Mitra, a stocky 48-year-old with a mustache and a mop of graying > black hair, in his tiny, triangular office at NIIT's R&D center on the > campus of the Indian Institute of Technology in the south part of New > Delhi. Here are edited excerpts of their conversation. > > Q: What gave you the idea of giving slum kids access to the > Internet? > > A: It was a social observation rather than a scientific one. > Any parent who had given his child a computer would invariably remark to me > about it. I could hardly ever find an exception. Within a very short period > of time, the parent would be claiming that the child was a genius with a > computer. When I poked a little further, I invariably found that the child > was doing things with the computer that the parent didn't understand. > > I asked myself whether the child was really doing something > exceptional or if what we were seeing was adult incomprehension. If the > adult was simply underestimating the child's ability to cope with a > computer, then that should happen with any child. And I asked myself, "Why > then would we want to use the same teaching methods for children as we use > for teaching adults?" > > At first, I tested my ideas with children who were easily > available -- children at the company here, whose parents are in our > executive group .. > > Then we tried this "hole in the wall" concept, where we put a > high-powered Pentium computer with a fast Internet connection into a wall > and let [slum] children have access to it with no explanation whatsoever. > To be very brief on what happened, the results have been uniform every time > we've done this experiment. You get base level computer literacy almost > instantly. By computer literacy, I mean what we adults define as computer > literacy: The ability to use the mouse, to point, to drag, to drop, to > copy, and to browse the Internet. > > The children create their own metaphors to do this. To give > you an idea of what I mean, a journalist came up to one of these kids and > asked him, "How do you know so much about computers?" The answer seemed > very strange to her because the kid said, "What's a computer?" The > terminology is not as important as the metaphor. If they've got the idea of > how a mouse works and that the Internet is [like a wall they can paint on], > who cares if they know that a computer is called a computer and a mouse is > called a mouse? In most of our classes here at NIIT, we spend time teaching > people the terminology and such. That seems irrelevant to me with these > children. > > But we also found that they would tend to plateau out. They > would surf the Web -- Disney.com is very popular with them because they > like games. And they would use [Microsoft] Paint. It's very, very popular > with all of them. > > Because these are deprived children who do not have easy > access to paper and paint. Every child likes to paint, so they would do it > with that program. However, that's all they could do. So I intervened, and > I played an MP3 [digital-music file] for them. They were astonished to hear > music come out of the computer for the first time. They said, "Oh, does it > work like a TV or radio?" I said, in keeping with my approach, "Well, I > know how to get there but I don't know how it works." Then I [left]. > > As I would have expected, seven days later they could have > taught me a few things about MP3. They had discovered what MP3 was, > downloaded free players, and were playing their favorite songs. As usual, > they didn't know what any of it was called. But they would say, "if you > take this little box, and you drag this file into this box, it plays > music." They had found out where all the Hindi music was on the Web and had > pulled it out. > > Q: What does it mean? What does it say for the potential of > these slum kids? After all, being able to download music isn't enough to > get them a job. > > A: I don't wish to claim that this shows anything more or > less than what it has shown, which is that curious kids in groups can train > themselves to operate a computer at a basic level. In doing so, they also > can get a generally good idea about the nature of browsing and the nature > of the Internet .... And, therefore, if they view these things as worth > learning, no formal infrastructure is needed [to teach them]. > > Now, that's a big deal, because everyone agrees that today's > children must be computer-literate. If computer literacy is defined as > turning a computer on and off and doing the basic functions, then this > method allows that kind of computer literacy to be achieved with no formal > instruction. Therefore any formal instruction for that kind of education is > a waste of time and money. You can use that time and money to have a > teacher teach something else that children cannot learn on their own. > > Q: What else have you learned? > > A: Well, I tried another experiment. I went to a middle-class > school and chose some ninth graders, two girls and two boys. I called their > physics teacher in and asked him, "What are you going to teach these > children next year at this time?" He mentioned viscosity. I asked him to > write down five possible exam questions on the subject. I then took the > four children and said, "Look here guys. I have a little problem for you." > They read the questions and said they didn't understand them, it was Greek > to them. So I said, "Here's a terminal. I'll give you two hours to find the > answers." > > Then I did my usual thing: I closed the door and went off > somewhere else. > > They answered all five questions in two hours. The physics > teacher checked the answers, and they were correct. That, of itself, > doesn't mean much. But I said to him, "Talk to the children and find out if > they really learned something about this subject." So he spent half an hour > talking to them. He came out and said, "They don't know everything about > this subject or everything I would teach them. But they do know one hell of > a lot about it. And they know a couple of things about it I didn't know." > > That's not a wow for the children, it's a wow for the > Internet. It shows you what it's capable of. The slum children don't have > physics teachers. But if I could make them curious enough, then all the > content they need is out there. The greatest expert on earth on viscosity > probably has his papers up there on the Web somewhere. Creating content is > not what's important. What is important is infrastructure and access ... > The teacher's job is very simple. It's to help the children ask the right > questions. > > Q: Are you saying that if we put computers in all the slums, > slum kids could become literate on their own? > > A: I'm saying that, in situations where we cannot intervene > very frequently, you can multiply the effectiveness of 10 teachers by 100 - > or 1,000 - fold if you give children access to the Internet. > > Q: This is your concept of minimally invasive education? > > A: Yes. It started out as a joke but I've kept using the term > ... This is a system of education where you assume that children know how > to put two and two together on their own. So you stand aside and intervene > only if you see them going in a direction that might lead into a blind > alley. That's just so that you don't waste time ... That would create > teachers who are experts at composing questions. > > Q: What are the business applications of all this? > > A: I get asked this question all the time. It's kind of > ironic that a company that makes [a big chunk of its sales from running > computer-training institutes] should invent a method where no teacher is > required. The answer is that just because a method is economically viable, > doesn't mean you shouldn't look for alternatives. A good business is one > which provides more and more for less and less. The cost of your goods and > services should spiral downwards. > > The second point is that we are going to have an e-commerce > boom. But what happens when an Indian businessman puts his shop up on the > Web? Where's he going to get customers from? If someone lets me do this > experiment for five years, with 100,000 kiosks, I reckon that I could get > 500 million children computer-literate. It would cost $2 billion. But if > you had to pay to educate the same children using traditional methods, it > would cost twice as much. > > Q: If this were to become a business, would it require > government funding? > > A: Advertisers like Coca-Cola might be interested. But it > would absolutely have to have government funding. I can't think of a > company that would put $2 billion into this. The governments will have to > realize that the problem of the haves and have-nots is about to [become] > the problem of the knows and knows-not. Do we want to create another great > big divide where the problem of illiteracy will come back in another > context? In a very short period of time, adults who do not know how to deal > with a [computer] mouse will have a very difficult time dealing with almost > everything in life. > > Q: But most of the information on the Internet is in English > and the people you're talking about don't speak English. > > A: We had some very surprising results there. We all have > great misconceptions about what these children know and don't know. At > first, I made a Hindi interface for the kids, which gave them links for > hooking up with Web sites in their own language. I thought it would be a > great hit. Guess what they did with it? They shut it down and went back to > Internet Explorer. I realized that they may not understand the dictionary > meaning of [English] words, but they have an operational understanding. > They know what that word does. They don't know how to pronounce F-I-L-E, > but they know that within it are options of saving and opening up files ... > > The fact that the Internet is in English will not stop them > from accessing it. > > They invent their own terminology for what's going on. For > example, they call the pointer of the mouse sui, which is Hindi for needle. > More interesting is the hourglass that appears when something is happening. > Most Indians have never heard of an hourglass. I asked them, "What does > that mean?" They said, "It's a damru," which is Hindi for Shiva's drum. > [The God] Shiva holds an hourglass - shaped drum in his hand that you can > shake from side to side. So they said the sui became a damru when the > "thing" [the computer] was doing something. > > Q: Of all the things the children did and learned, what did > you find the most surprising? > > A: One day there was a document file on the desktop of the > computer. It was called "untitled.doc" and it said in big colorful letters, > "I Love India." I couldn't believe it for the simple reason that there was > no keyboard on the computer [only a touch screen]. I asked my main > assistant -- a young boy, eight years old, the son of a local betel-nut > seller -- and I asked him, "How on earth did you do this?" He showed me the > character map inside [Microsoft] Word. So he had gotten into the character > map inside Word, and dragged and dropped the letters onto the screen, then > increased the point size and painted the letters. I was stunned because I > didn't know that the character map existed -- and I have a PhD. > > Q: So what you're talking about is a different sort of > literacy, a sort of functional literacy ... > > A: Yes, it's functional literacy. There are two examples I'd > like to give you from the recent past. It's already happened in cable TV in > India. There are 50 or 60 million cable-TV connections in India at this > point in time. The guys who set up the meters, splice the coaxial cables, > make the connection to the house, etc., are very similar to these kids. > They don't know what they're doing. They only know that if you do these > things, you'll get the cable channel. And they've managed to [install] 60 > million cable connections so far. > > Example No. 2 is the bicycle. I think we have the biggest > bicycle-manufacturing industry in the world. The bicycle is ubiquitous > here, and it's much the same in Malaysia, China, Africa. But you don't ask > how the population became bicycle-literate. They just use it. So what I'd > like to see is an India in which a large part [of the population] treats > the computer that way. > > The other thing is [how the Internet will change when most > Indians gain access to it]. We have the analogy of cable TV in India. > Originally, it was all in English. It took exactly four years for all the > programming to become Hindi. Star TV is now almost all in Hindi. If you go > to Bangkok, they hate it. > > Q: You're saying that a lot of Hindi content will appear as > more Indians surf the Net? > > A: Exactly. Let me go on record as saying it's not a question > of what the Internet will do to India. It's a question of what India will > do to the Internet ... If rural India goes onto the Internet, there will be > an absolute flood of Indian-language content from people trying to sell to > them. > > Q: Has the Indian or any other government expressed interest > in funding such ain Eng project? > > A: Several government agencies, several state governments, > and several world agencies have expressed an interest. Unfortunately, I > don't want to name them because I need to get the funds first. > > Q: You say that only the children used the computer, not > adults. What does this mean for adult education? > > A: I'm not even going to suggest that we use this [technique] > for adults. The only reaction we got from adults was, "What on earth is > this for? Why is there no one here to teach us something? How are we ever > going to use this?" I contend that by the time we are 16, we are taught to > want teachers, taught that we cannot learn anything without teachers. > > There are two points I'd like to make about the adults. One > is that the adults asked the children to do things for them. For example, > to read their horoscopes on the Hindi news sites. The second thing is the > reaction of the women. I would ask them why they didn't use [the computer], > and they would say, "I don't have enough brains to understand all this." I > would say, "What about your daughters?" And the answer was, "They have lots > of brains." So I said, "Do you think I should just remove this thing?" The > answer was always, "No, no, no." I asked why not. And they said, "Because > it's very good for the children." > > Now, if the mothers have realized that, I'm happy. I don't > care if they don't come [to use the computer]. Because all we have to do is > wait one generation. Not even that. In five years, a 13-year-old is going > to be 18 and be an adult. > > Q: Where do you go from here? > > A: There is one experiment that scares me. These children > don't know what e-mail is. If I gave them e-mail, I don't know what would > happen. I'll probably try it anyway. But remember the stories one used to > hear about people finding lost tribes and introducing them to Coca-Cola? > I'm really seriously scared about what would happen if suddenly the whole > wide world had access to these kids. I don't know who would talk to them > for what purpose. > > ### > > >>> tom poe <tompoe(a)renonevada.net> 04/18/2002 10:33 >>> > > Hi, Jim: Why an attachment? What is it? > Thanks, > Tom Poe > Reno, NV > http://www.studioforrecording.org/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ > http://renotahoe.pm.org/ > > On Thursday 18 April 2002 07:19, Jim Parkhurst wrote: > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Jim Parkhurst > > Systems Analyst III > > Texas Department of Transportation > > General Services Division > > Automation Support > > jparkhur(a)dot.state.tx.us > > Voice : 512-416-3219 > > FAX : 512-416-2099 > > Pager : 606-9774 > > ---------------------------------------- > Content-Type: message/rfc822; charset="US-ASCII"; name="Attachment: 1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Description: > ---------------------------------------- > > ---------------------------------------- > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="Attachment: 2" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Description: > ----------------------------------------

2 1