June 2004 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] XP Boot and network Logon times
by G.Harris 15 Jun '04

15 Jun '04

Aplogies for not replying earlier but BT have had us disconnected yet again for a few days - power surge at the exchange apparently!!! Ok - straight in - boot up of Unix and Linux thin clients - max. 15 seconds - boot up of XP clients - max. 45 seconds. Logon to thin client - max. 10 seconds including running of script to link local printer, check folders, etc. - Logon to XP client varies depending upon age, location and use but never more than 90 seconds. We have a central Unix server, one W2000 RAID fileserver, One Unix / SAMBA audio/ video fileserver, 1 Unix backup server, 1 IIS server for those little things that MS make so difficult otherwise, 1 printserver, 4 application servers - we don't use roaming profiles because they are a pain in the backside in a school and we use Citrix XP to deliver it all to the desktops - locked down XP desktop delivered to the XP machines, shadowing built in to Citrix XP - own intranet / extranet on the Unix server - a forum, e-mail - and shortly staff / pupil work delivery and 97 / 98% usability throughout the school. Rooms are open most of the day and break, lunchtime and after school equipment is in use most days. Security is very high - virus infestation almost nil - and administration can be from any thin client anywhere in the school. We feel that a little extra cost is offset by availability, security and many other useful features like central web based administration and shadowing (one local school which is RM and XP only locks all ICT rooms and log in is so slow that most non-ICT staff have given up - personal mailboxes - forget it). Anyone who wants to look can come and see. We don't really need Windows now - a friendlier front end to MySQL and we could do most of what we do now - the rest could be sorted with emulation, except music. We still run Windows to keep all the other staff happy because that's what they have at home and they just want to use it. If you want real support and an excellent system then we use Precedence Technologies of Cambridge - never heard of them - course not - their system works - no moaning to fill the air waves - they are usually just inside the door at BETT. > Not directly related to Linux, but hopefully the feedback you give > might help me to persuade this school I am working with to explore the > Linux server route. > > At present this school has some 200 oe so XP-Pro based workstations > that have a modest but not inadequate spec. At the server end they are > running three well speced Xenon based Raid-5 systems. The server > software is RM CC3 (Community Connect Three), which is based on > Windows Server 2000 with RM's ageing proprietary management / security > overlay. > > Now here's the problem: Workstations take about 2.5 minutes to boot up > to the Login prompt -- apparently the CC3 workstation overlay does > loads of checking with the server to implement security settings etc > before the user can log in. Now when I say 2.5 minutes to reach a > Login prompt ...well that's on a good day. On a bad day this can take > a good ten minutes or even longer. > > As for the time it takes to get from logging in to being presented > with a usable XP 'Start' menu, well this takes at least another two > minutes ...again on a good day. In practice it sometimes takes > between a quarter-of-an-hour and twenty minutes to get from 'power on' > to a usable 'Start' menu. > > OK. So the two managed service providers involved in supporting this > school's site are playing 'pass the buck'. Meanwhile the school > management is gradually waking up to the fact this level of > performance isn't actually normal! > > So what I want to know from the good members of this list is how long > in practice does it take you to boot a networked XP workstation to > Logon and thereafter to a usable menu ...talking to either a Linux > (Samba) server or a Windows 2000 / 2003 server? Note that all users > of this school network use 'roaming profiles'. > > Also if anyone on this list can get access to a RM CC3 based network, > what sort of boot / logon / Start Menu times are you commonly > achieving with this setup in practice? > > Thanks in advance. > > > David Bowles > > -- If this e-mail contains anything that the recipient takes exception to, please contact: The Headteacher, Maidenhill School GL10 2HA UK (+44) (0) 1453 822469

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] XP Boot and network Logon times
by Grainge, Derek 14 Jun '04

14 Jun '04

Just for comparison purposes, some win 2000 facts. "Typical" Win 2000 workstation, boot time = 48 seconds; login time, 12 seconds. The latter includes roaming profiles, printer configuration and a couple of 'startup' applications, but on a lightly loaded network, running at 100 mbps & 1 Gig backbone. There's an awful lot of junk in user profiles that doesn't need to be saved, and likewise a lot of stuff best stored elsewhere - stuff to do with internet explorer etc. We took some expert advice about how to change file save defaults and cache locations; as well as which bits of a profile structure matter and which don't. I know that XP has the reputation of being a bit of a pig regarding login times, and that's why our school machines run 2000 in preference; but out of the box 2000 + roaming profiles isn't too brilliant either. Derek ------------------- Ok - straight in - boot up of Unix and Linux thin clients - max. 15 seconds - boot up of XP clients - max. 45 seconds. Logon to thin client - max. 10 seconds including running of script to link local printer, check folders, etc. - Logon to XP client varies depending upon age, location and use but never more than 90 seconds. -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of unacceptable material. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. Website: http://www.wellington-college.berks.sch.uk ********************************************************************************

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Novell Made my day
by Chris Puttick 10 Jun '04

10 Jun '04

What about desktop products? -----Original Message----- From: s-clarob(a)st-aidans.cumbria.sch.uk [mailto:s-clarob@st-aidans.cumbria.sch.uk] Sent: Thu 6/10/2004 1:46 PM To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Cc: Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Novell Made my day Just got a renewal e-mail for our Novell Schools Agreement and was surprised to see that we are entitled to freely use Suse Enterprise Server 8 :) Best bit of good news I have had in weeks.. Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com This message may contain information and/or data that is confidential and legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any use, publication, reproduction or dissemination is strictly prohibited and may violate certain laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy this and all copies of this message and/or data. The content of this message has been scanned by MailPatrol for unacceptable language and inappropriate content. European Electronique limited thanks you in anticipation of your co-operation. MailPatrol is a fully managed service that offers your organisation the ability to monitor and enforce your Acceptable Usage Policy. For further information regarding the MailPatrol services contact the European Electronique Sales Enquiry line on 0845 345 8340 (local rate) or email sales(a)euroele.com

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Novell Made my day
by s-clarob＠st-aidans.cumbria.sch.uk 10 Jun '04

10 Jun '04

Just got a renewal e-mail for our Novell Schools Agreement and was surprised to see that we are entitled to freely use Suse Enterprise Server 8 :) Best bit of good news I have had in weeks.. Rob

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] School PC config tips and a feature wish lists...
by Chris Puttick 04 Jun '04

04 Jun '04

Have a look at Omniquad Surfwall: http://www.omniquad.com/surfwallenterprise.htm -----Original Message----- From: David Bowles [mailto:dbowles@educationsupport.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: Fri 6/4/2004 12:26 AM To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Cc: Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] School PC config tips and a feature wish lists... Nearly all OS's and commercial software applications are written with the business sector firmly in mind. Consequently their configuration and functionality is usually less than optimal for a school environment. So what tips / wish-list features can you recommend? For starters here's two of mine... My #1 Configuration tip; If your school runs an office suite (OpenOffice or MS-Office), then it makes sense to slightly modify the standard document templates (normal.doc?) to automatically include a student's Login name in the footer, so this gets printed on each sheet by default. Why? Because this helps avoid the inevitable scrum around the printer whenever a class of 20+ students attempts to print out their work all at the same time. Why not include page numbers in the standard template as well? I've lost count of the number of times I've witnessed a ream's worth of useless printout end up strewn across the floor, with most of the next lesson completely unnecessarily dedicated to reprinting everything over again ...and again. My #1 Wish-list item; Vast amounts of PC time gets wasted by students (in secondary schools at least) logging on to chat rooms, surfing banal on-line games and aimlessly Googling for no educational whatsoever. As one teacher put it "So much learning time is simply wasted by just 'mousing around'". This is a bit like holding a WeightWatchers meeting inside a sweet factory, with piles of 'free samples' to hand! It seems the standard solution in most schools is to block access to the offending student's network account. But of course this is usually completely counter-productive, given the bored student is left with nothing better to do but disrupt everyone else's work (why are some ICT coordinators devoid of any common sense?)! I've known many desperate subject teachers let said disruptive pupil use their own staff account out of pure desperation, which of course allows them read / write access to all sorts of confidential information!!! Now why hasn't someone come up with a simple way of disabling Internet access to an individual student's PC or group of student PCs for a fixed period of say the rest of the lesson? ...with access to a specified (approved) web-site easily enabled by the teacher. So how might this work in practice? Well in most schools the only person in the ICT suite who doesn't have exclusive access to a PC logged onto their own account is the teacher. So what's needed is a facility whereby a teacher can commandeer a student's PC for a few seconds for the purpose of setting up or releasing an Internet block. Now when a student needs access to the Internet maybe a 'Password' prompt could pop up when they enter a URL or click on a site that's not been pre-approved. Perhaps this prompt might include a unique access number the busy teacher can cross-check against a printed table of pin-codes they keep in their pocket. Furthermore, different pin codes might allow the student or a groups of students different levels or time lengths of access to the Internet. Well I'm sure this would be a doddle for someone with better programming skills than me to set up, perhaps by patching a pre-existing web- or proxy-server. Any volunteers? I know loads of teachers who would be eternally grateful. And if you've got any real mean config tips or wish-list items then do please share them... David Bowles -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com This message may contain information and/or data that is confidential and legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any use, publication, reproduction or dissemination is strictly prohibited and may violate certain laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy this and all copies of this message and/or data. The content of this message has been scanned by MailPatrol for unacceptable language and inappropriate content. European Electronique limited thanks you in anticipation of your co-operation. MailPatrol is a fully managed service that offers your organisation the ability to monitor and enforce your Acceptable Usage Policy. For further information regarding the MailPatrol services contact the European Electronique Sales Enquiry line on 0845 345 8340 (local rate) or email sales(a)euroele.com

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] RM woes...
by Chris Puttick 02 Jun '04

02 Jun '04

Good luck! For interest, there are a number of ways of getting rid of RM without it costing a lot of money... FWIW, RM already have a plan for dealing with CC3 and its approach - they bought an alternative (well, the entire company actually): http://www.rangersuite.com Cheers Chris -----Original Message----- From: David Bowles [mailto:dbowles@educationsupport.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: Wed 6/2/2004 1:20 AM To: SuSE Linux UK Schools Cc: Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] RM woes... <snip> As for me, the principal task I have ahead of me is to persuade my school's senior management they are currently wedded to a real lemon of an managed ICT services supplier ...one who needs to be given the boot ASAP, no matter how much money the school will have to write off in the process. Wish me luck. David -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com This message may contain information and/or data that is confidential and legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any use, publication, reproduction or dissemination is strictly prohibited and may violate certain laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy this and all copies of this message and/or data. The content of this message has been scanned by MailPatrol for unacceptable language and inappropriate content. European Electronique limited thanks you in anticipation of your co-operation. MailPatrol is a fully managed service that offers your organisation the ability to monitor and enforce your Acceptable Usage Policy. For further information regarding the MailPatrol services contact the European Electronique Sales Enquiry line on 0845 345 8340 (local rate) or email sales(a)euroele.com

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] XP Boot and network Logon times
by Steve Douglas 01 Jun '04

01 Jun '04

This is a common problem for those with RM connect3. I know of another CLC who is about to throw their implementation of Connect3 out. RM have visited on several occasions to try and fix this and have got the logon times down form 14min to about 5! I understand they are introducing a new service to visit schools and sort out these problems but only if you are a subscriber to their support services. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Puttick [mailto:Chris.Puttick@euroele.com] Sent: 01 June 2004 09:14 To: David Bowles; SuSE Linux UK Schools Subject: RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] XP Boot and network Logon times 30 seconds is a reasonable target - however, this assumes a high performance network with no bottlenecks (e.g. gbit backbone, 100Mbit switched, multiple subnets/VLANs to minimise collision/broadcast traffic). Introduce wireless and 2 minutes is more likely. Other things to consider - virus/worm/spyware infection, DNS issues, overly large profiles (like >2Mb), RM CC use... Not using PaintShop Pro by any chance? Cheers Chris -----Original Message----- From: David Bowles [ mailto:dbowles@educationsupport.fsnet.co.uk <mailto:dbowles@educationsupport.fsnet.co.uk> ] Sent: Tue 6/1/2004 3:12 AM To: SuSE Linux UK Schools Cc: Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] XP Boot and network Logon times Not directly related to Linux, but hopefully the feedback you give might help me to persuade this school I am working with to explore the Linux server route. At present this school has some 200 oe so XP-Pro based workstations that have a modest but not inadequate spec. At the server end they are running three well speced Xenon based Raid-5 systems. The server software is RM CC3 (Community Connect Three), which is based on Windows Server 2000 with RM's ageing proprietary management / security overlay. Now here's the problem: Workstations take about 2.5 minutes to boot up to the Login prompt -- apparently the CC3 workstation overlay does loads of checking with the server to implement security settings etc before the user can log in. Now when I say 2.5 minutes to reach a Login prompt ...well that's on a good day. On a bad day this can take a good ten minutes or even longer. As for the time it takes to get from logging in to being presented with a usable XP 'Start' menu, well this takes at least another two minutes ...again on a good day. In practice it sometimes takes between a quarter-of-an-hour and twenty minutes to get from 'power on' to a usable 'Start' menu. OK. So the two managed service providers involved in supporting this school's site are playing 'pass the buck'. Meanwhile the school management is gradually waking up to the fact this level of performance isn't actually normal! So what I want to know from the good members of this list is how long in practice does it take you to boot a networked XP workstation to Logon and thereafter to a usable menu ...talking to either a Linux (Samba) server or a Windows 2000 / 2003 server? Note that all users of this school network use 'roaming profiles'. Also if anyone on this list can get access to a RM CC3 based network, what sort of boot / logon / Start Menu times are you commonly achieving with this setup in practice? Thanks in advance. David Bowles -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com This message may contain information and/or data that is confidential and legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any use, publication, reproduction or dissemination is strictly prohibited and may violate certain laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy this and all copies of this message and/or data. The content of this message has been scanned by MailPatrol for unacceptable language and inappropriate content. European Electronique limited thanks you in anticipation of your co-operation. MailPatrol is a fully managed service that offers your organisation the ability to monitor and enforce your Acceptable Usage Policy. For further information regarding the MailPatrol services contact the European Electronique Sales Enquiry line on 0845 345 8340 (local rate) or email sales(a)euroele.com <mailto:sales@euroele.com>

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] XP Boot and network Logon times
by Ben Higginbottom 01 Jun '04

01 Jun '04

>30 seconds is a reasonable target - however, this assumes a high >performance network with no bottlenecks (e.g. gbit backbone, 100Mbit >switched, multiple subnets/VLANs to minimise collision/broadcast >traffic). Introduce wireless and 2 minutes is more likely. For boot times make sure you only have the services you need running, in theory Xp should boot in under 30 seconds, however under RM the client must obtain a license from the server so that will probably take a while. From login prompt to start menu, and again on an ideal network should be about 4 seconds. >Other things to consider - virus/worm/spyware infection, DNS issues, >overly large profiles (like >2Mb), RM CC use... Also who put your network in? I cant go into this for legal issues, but if an RM contractor such as Networx put it in, get it audited by an outside contractor such as GGR (the ones I've used) and in the meantime use ntop to give you at least an idea about the level of latency. Regards, Ben

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] XP Boot and network Logon times
by Chris Puttick 01 Jun '04

01 Jun '04

30 seconds is a reasonable target - however, this assumes a high performance network with no bottlenecks (e.g. gbit backbone, 100Mbit switched, multiple subnets/VLANs to minimise collision/broadcast traffic). Introduce wireless and 2 minutes is more likely. Other things to consider - virus/worm/spyware infection, DNS issues, overly large profiles (like >2Mb), RM CC use... Not using PaintShop Pro by any chance? Cheers Chris -----Original Message----- From: David Bowles [mailto:dbowles@educationsupport.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: Tue 6/1/2004 3:12 AM To: SuSE Linux UK Schools Cc: Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] XP Boot and network Logon times Not directly related to Linux, but hopefully the feedback you give might help me to persuade this school I am working with to explore the Linux server route. At present this school has some 200 oe so XP-Pro based workstations that have a modest but not inadequate spec. At the server end they are running three well speced Xenon based Raid-5 systems. The server software is RM CC3 (Community Connect Three), which is based on Windows Server 2000 with RM's ageing proprietary management / security overlay. Now here's the problem: Workstations take about 2.5 minutes to boot up to the Login prompt -- apparently the CC3 workstation overlay does loads of checking with the server to implement security settings etc before the user can log in. Now when I say 2.5 minutes to reach a Login prompt ...well that's on a good day. On a bad day this can take a good ten minutes or even longer. As for the time it takes to get from logging in to being presented with a usable XP 'Start' menu, well this takes at least another two minutes ...again on a good day. In practice it sometimes takes between a quarter-of-an-hour and twenty minutes to get from 'power on' to a usable 'Start' menu. OK. So the two managed service providers involved in supporting this school's site are playing 'pass the buck'. Meanwhile the school management is gradually waking up to the fact this level of performance isn't actually normal! So what I want to know from the good members of this list is how long in practice does it take you to boot a networked XP workstation to Logon and thereafter to a usable menu ...talking to either a Linux (Samba) server or a Windows 2000 / 2003 server? Note that all users of this school network use 'roaming profiles'. Also if anyone on this list can get access to a RM CC3 based network, what sort of boot / logon / Start Menu times are you commonly achieving with this setup in practice? Thanks in advance. David Bowles -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com This message may contain information and/or data that is confidential and legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any use, publication, reproduction or dissemination is strictly prohibited and may violate certain laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy this and all copies of this message and/or data. The content of this message has been scanned by MailPatrol for unacceptable language and inappropriate content. European Electronique limited thanks you in anticipation of your co-operation. MailPatrol is a fully managed service that offers your organisation the ability to monitor and enforce your Acceptable Usage Policy. For further information regarding the MailPatrol services contact the European Electronique Sales Enquiry line on 0845 345 8340 (local rate) or email sales(a)euroele.com

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