December 2003 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] That naughty mr gates & Becta!
by Paul Taylor 06 Dec '03

06 Dec '03

On Friday 05 Dec 2003 9:09 pm, Paul Hornshaw wrote: > On Friday 05 December 2003 17:26, ian wrote: > > On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 15:05, Chris Puttick wrote: > > > So a big, successful (high ICT deployment) school would have it's MS > > > licencing costs cut from £35k to £27k p.a.? Gosh, how generous ;-). > > > > Don't forget MS software is already considerably discounted to > > schools. Do you think they would agree to further discounts if they > > were not terrified of FLOSS? I think this is great news, it means MS > > are feeling the heat. Office is about £80 a seat to schools so even if > > discounted to £50 its £50 more expensive than OO.o and OEM XP at > > around £85 is still £85 more expensive than GNU/Linux. I bet they > > don't discount the OEM OS price. > > What I still don't understand is why the national press doesn't casue > such a stink about this. I would have thought that this waste of public > funds would have been right up the Daily Mail or Daily Telegraph's > alleys, bearing in mind their "lurve" for Tony Blair. > > > For instance, if the NHS pissed away as much money buying cotton wool > balls instead of packs of cotton woll, the press would be screaming. There's the rub I think. As this debate we have had over the last few days has shown, the level of understanding of these issues is held by few people. If the NHS is pissing away millions on the wrong cotton wool balls then it is relatively easy to sell the story and get the general voters incensed. The issue of people pissing away millions on "free" software is less easy to describe in such a way that it makes sense. It could also be a political issue. The people that benefit from back-handers in government circles and "pork belly legislation" (to borrow from the yanks) are the same people that own and therefore dictate the editorials of newspapers. > I shudder at the way this nation just accepts these things nowadays. > <sigh> double sigh. I lived in the US for several years, teaching at a University, and saw first hand the menal immisseration of people by the media in order to keep a docile and ill-informed (therefore innactive) public. We are now fast-tracking that way. > -- > Best regards, > > Paul paul

1 0

RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] That naughty mr gates & Becta!
by Chris Puttick 05 Dec '03

05 Dec '03

So a big, successful (high ICT deployment) school would have it's MS licencing costs cut from £35k to £27k p.a.? Gosh, how generous ;-). -----Original Message----- From: adrian.wells [mailto:adrian.wells@sidcot.org.uk] Sent: 05 December 2003 14:54 To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] That naughty mr gates & Becta! This is causing elation elsewhere! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3291279.stm Later Adrian -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com This message may contain information and/or data that is confidential and legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any use, publication, reproduction or dissemination is strictly prohibited and may violate certain laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy this and all copies of this message and/or data. The content of this message has been scanned by MailPatrol for unacceptable language and inappropriate content. European Electronique limited thanks you in anticipation of your co-operation. MailPatrol is a fully managed service that offers your organisation the ability to monitor and enforce your Acceptable Usage Policy. For further information regarding the MailPatrol services contact the European Electronique Sales Enquiry line on 0845 345 8340 (local rate) or email sales(a)euroele.com

3 2

RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Crashes and reserve servers for schools...
by francis stanbridge 05 Dec '03

05 Dec '03

I can't comment about other schools - but many that I know in my LEA don't have this sort of redundancy. We do - duplicate servers for authentication, dns, dhcp, intranet, file / print + multiple load balanced terminal servers - I learned this one the hard way ! The only thing we haven't doubled is our BSD proxy server - however I sense the need for another box - can't have too many toys. Francis Francis Stanbridge Community College Bishop's Castle Shropshire SY9 5AY tel: 01588 638257 fax: 01588 630034

3 2

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Open Source pr Propriety]
by ian 04 Dec '03

04 Dec '03

-- ian <ian.lynch2(a)ntlworld.com>

1 0

RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Open Source pr Propriety
by Ben Higginbottom 04 Dec '03

04 Dec '03

Tim Fletcher Wrote: >Now now Ben he's saying nice things about me atm :) Atm being the operative acronym, once he finds out whose getting the blame for every linux error and problem (well both of them) the language is bound to change :-)

1 0

RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Open Source pr Propriety
by Ben Higginbottom 04 Dec '03

04 Dec '03

>There's still Tim Fletcher in the highly paid and competent department >(and his team for the competent)! Back here in industry, we're banking >on school's being unable/unwilling to pay the going rate to employ their >own experts (and LEA's often seemingly unable but not for financial >reasons... (members of the list exempted!)). Such a pity that European's service department has suddenly gone downhill then :) (returns to fixing several dozen 'puttick specials')

2 1

An Open Source National curriculum
by garry saddington 03 Dec '03

03 Dec '03

We use Open Source almost exclusively to teach ICT and I have the idea that an alternative Open Source National Curriculum would be a good thing, what do others feel? regards garry

11 28

Re: An Open Source National curriculum
by Colin McQueen 02 Dec '03

02 Dec '03

John Dean <john(a)rygannon.com> wrote: > On Tuesday 02 December 2003 08:44, Colin McQueen wrote: > > <snip> > > > > > > > > I see your point but I am not convinced that its a terrible > > > > > > waste of money. How does open source get created.? > > > > > > With a computer, compiler, linker, set of function libraries and a > > > lot of time and effort, that's how it gets created > > > > > > > > > Where do these people get the time? > > > > > > We make time. Three years of my life have gone into my project, > > > Rekall > > > > > > > > If you don't know the answer to that question then you should > > > > > be on this list > > > > > > > > I am on this list ;-) I still don't know the answer. i'd love > > > > to have the time to support open source by creating but work, > > > > other causes and family take up too much time (not in that order > > > > of priority) and do come first > > > > > > Your attitude suggests to me that you would never make it in the > > > OS movement. We give up our spare time because we believe in what > > > we are doing is for the common good. > > > > That's a little condemming. > > May be so, but look again at what you have written I have and I don't see what you are getting at? > > > What attitude is that then? > > negative and dismissive I have only posed counter arguments. Many of them are actually positive but not necessarily towards open source. I challenge you to point out a single dismissive comment? > > > What's wrong with asking questions. Is that not allowed here? > > There is no at all wrong with asking questions, but you have to be > prepared to take some flak if your questions, comments are some what > annoying ditto. I suppose you're right but I am not on this list to try and annoy people. I have never intentionally written to annoy. I would like open source to become the norm. But I work in schools as teacher and adviser, I also have children in both primary and secondary. If anything I find the comments from some on this list very dismissive about the hard work and good intentions of pupils, teachers, parents, governors and advisors. If some of it were to believed, only those that evangelise open source are worthy the rest of us are stupid. > > > > > > You would do well to read Richard M. Stallman's book, "The > > > Cathedral and the Bazzar" then you will know a little bit about > > > what motivates the Open Scourse Movement. > > > > I didn't ask about the motivation I asked about the time. > > Movation and time are inextricably linked together. If you had the > motivation then you would find the time Not true. Its quite common for people to be misled or pushed away from their own motivational interests. I have motivation in too many areas. For me its about priorities. I've already listed some of my geater ones. > > > I spend a lot of time on things I believe in. > > There you go. You have replied to my comment regarding motivation. It > is obvious from what you head said that you don't believe in the Open > Source Movement. If you did we would wouldn't be having this > conversation. Oh but I do. Its just not my religion, nor high enough priority above feeding my family with love, food and shelter and supporting others around me. Anyway I am confident I am contibuting, but perhaps I'll never convince you. Tough! <snip> > The book is by Eric Raymond not Richard Stallman and it can be found > at www.catb.org/~esr Thanks, I'll look it up. <snip> -- Colin McQueen

1 0

RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Re: An Open Source National curriculum
by Chris Puttick 02 Dec '03

02 Dec '03

Surely you mean superior? And it's worst among ex-teachers who've achieved LEA status To be honest, as anyone who's worked with me will tell you, I have an opinion on pretty much everything, and can normally argue a case for or against it! I believe however that any such curriculum development will have to be seen as emanating from teachers (if nothing else because otherwise the unions will never back it), regardless of who else is involved. And in some way I was trying to diplomatically avoid saying that since my return to the commercial sector I was too busy (at the moment, at least) to do much to help, because that opens up a whole different argument... -----Original Message----- From: David Bowles [mailto:dbowles@educationsupport.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: 02 December 2003 10:03 To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Re: An Open Source National curriculum Why do you assume you are not suitably qualified or experienced to contribute directly to this, Chris? On reason why educators have gotten themselves in such a mess over the sensible teaching of ICT is their professional arrogance. Indeed I've come across far too many educators who possess an unshakable conviction that anyone who possesses QTS (Qualified Teacher Status) must by definition be infinitely inferior in every way to everyone else who resides outside of 'Fortress Education' -- it's a cultural thing. What's needed to make a success of a project such as this are contributions from across the widest possible spectrum ICT interest and use. Even novice users of ICT can make a highly significant contribution. Indeed, back when I used to run a computer services support department we found comparatively new users of software often made far better trainers compared with others who had a lot more experience. Why? Because they were a lot closer to the experience of the new users they were training and therefore tended not to gloss over the basics. So you are not only welcome to join in Chris, I'm also certain you are well capable of making a valuable contribution. David Bowles TeacherLab / Education-Support > I hope there are any number of people on this list, who, unlike myself > are suitably qualified and experienced to contribute directly to this. > Hopefully on SchoolForge-UK (open development as well as open source) > or strongly linked. Where I can help, I'm willing to do so. > Regards > Chris -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com This message may contain information and/or data that is confidential and legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any use, publication, reproduction or dissemination is strictly prohibited and may violate certain laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy this and all copies of this message and/or data. The content of this message has been scanned by MailPatrol for unacceptable language and inappropriate content. European Electronique limited thanks you in anticipation of your co-operation. MailPatrol is a fully managed service that offers your organisation the ability to monitor and enforce your Acceptable Usage Policy. For further information regarding the MailPatrol services contact the European Electronique Sales Enquiry line on 0845 345 8340 (local rate) or email sales(a)euroele.com

5 4

Double emails
by Colin McQueen 02 Dec '03

02 Dec '03

Many people are ccing the posts. Is this normal practise? i am getting loads of double posts and as my filter uses the subject as well as the mailing list header its getting confusing. Any suggestions how I can sort this at my end? Well I guess I know actually, use a deleting filter for cc's email.... -- Colin McQueen

2 1