September 2002 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Meeting yesterday and welcome to new members of the list
by Philip Hands 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Roger Whittaker <roger(a)suse-linux.co.uk> writes: > I've just subscribed various people to the list - please post a > message to say hello and introduce yourselves. Hi, If you were at the meeting, I was wearing a Debian t-shirt (with a red swirl logo on it) --- there's a photo at the top of this article, where I'm wearing similar stuff (except for the penguin ;-) http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/articles/issue6/lu6-Editorial-A_patently_bad_ide… I'm a Debian GNU/Linux developer, and run the UK Debian mirror, and am responsible for producing the Debian official CD images: http://www.uk.debian.org/ http://cdimage.debian.org/ I have only a peripheral interest in educational matters, in that I've been frustrated in the past in my efforts to provide free computers (which were otherwise destined for a skip), but I can certainly contribute on a technical side, and having been involved in Debian (which is completely voluntary, like OSIE is expected to be) since 1996 I may be able to make some suggestions about how to ``organise'' such a thing. For those of you who've not come across Debian before, we're a world-wide voluntary organisation (read, chaotic jumble of mailing lists) that puts together a Linux distribution (and soon a HURD distribution) and gives it away. Debian doesn't pay people to do this, and doesn't sell what it produces, and in most legal senses doesn't really exist (i.e. the machines in the mirror network mostly belong to people like me, rather than to Debian, and the bandwidth is donated rather than paid for). This probably gives a pretty good feel for what Debian is all about: http://www.uk.debian.org/social_contract which you will notice leads into the The Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG), which is where the Open Source Definition came from. My internet machine, that hosts the Debian UK mirror, may be of use to OSIE, since it has about 30GB of spare disk, and a 20Mbit/s connection at a well connected ISP. This machine could act as either a primary host or mirror site for the web site, and could do DNS secondarying etc. as well. Something I'd be interested in working on (although perhaps a SuSE list is not the right place to spend too much time discussing this ;-) would be producing Debian CD images, tuned to the needs of educational users. Debian has accumulated some funds in the UK, and have been looking for a worthwhile cause to spend them on (we never really need to pay for anything that actually makes Debian work, so don't have much use for money), so we could probably afford to have a few thousand CDs pressed, and send them out to schools that are interested. Cheers, Phil. -- Say no to software patents! http://petition.eurolinux.org/ Philip Hands. +44 (0)20 7744 6244 philip.hands(a)uk.alcove.com Alcove UK --- Liberating Software --- http://www.alcove.com/ http://www.hands.com/ phil(a)hands.com http://www.uk.debian.org/

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WINE is all we need...
by Chris Puttick 25 Oct '02

25 Oct '02

Hi Anyone interested in collaborating on WINE how-tos for UK schools software. It's the only argument left that is stopping Manchester eduation migrating to Linux. It could well involve contributions into the WINE project itself, if there are any interested coders out there... Cheers Chris Puttick IT Manager Central Manchester CLC

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] School admin: Microsoft only?
by k.williamson 20 Sep '02

20 Sep '02

>===== Original Message From Tim Pizey <timp(a)paneris.org> ===== >Grahame and all, > >I am experienced in collaborative, distributed development of software. > >I would be happy to host a CVS tree and development lists at >http://www.paneris.org/ > >I would propose writing the system using http://www.melati.org/ >(java) which is DB agnostic and works with MySQL, Postgresql and >any other JDBC compliant db which implements transactions. > >I would have to rely on somone who has access to the existing system for >requirements and data design, and I could not devote an enormous amount of >time without being paid. > >Anyone else interested? > >cheers >Tim Pizey > I think the idea is to start small. My personal prefence would be to use web based applications, but that can get messy :( > > >On Thursday 19 September 2002 14:30, Grahame Leon-Smith at Free Computers >wrote: >> If someone would like to develop a SIMS/CMIS equivalent in MySQL I would be >> happy to market it to schools. >> >> Regards, Grahame >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Grahame Leon-Smith, Principal Consultant >> Tele-School Education Consultants >> Tel 01932-874067 Fax 01932-874068 >> mailto:grahame.leon-smith@tele-school.org >> HAVE A LOOK AT OUR WEBSITE AT >> < http://www.tele-school.org> >> 30 YEARS EXPERIENCE IN EDUCATION >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tim Pizey [mailto:timp@paneris.org] >> Sent: 18 September 2002 17:54 >> To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com >> Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] School admin: Microsoft only? >> >> On Wednesday 18 September 2002 14:37, Gary Stainburn wrote: >> > On Wednesday 18 Sep 2002 3:17 pm, Christopher Dawkins wrote: >> > > > East Sussex are looking into CMIS, mainly driven by a group of >> > > > interested schools who wish to move away from SIMS. >> > > >> > > We bought CMIS last year: it is definitely by far the best system there >> > > is. >> > > >> > > (Against an extremely poor field, that is, and if you have oodles of >> > > money. I reckon we've spent twice a long trying to adapt CMIS to our >> > > needs than we would have spent writing a complete new system from >> >> scratch >> >> > > with MySQL) >> > >> > Just think how much money you could have saved if you'd used PostgreqSQL >> > then. >> > >> > (Sorry, I couldn't help it, I'm that way out today) >> >> What is the spec of this system? >> What are the chances of forming a purchasing group to fund my developing an >> OS system? >> >> <plug> >> Were I to address it I would use http://www.melati.org/, which is db >> agnostic. >> </plug> >> >> cheers >> Tim Pizey >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com >> For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com >> --- >> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) >> Version: 6.0.386 / Virus Database: 218 - Release Date: 09/09/2002 >> >> --- >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) >> Version: 6.0.386 / Virus Database: 218 - Release Date: 09/09/2002 > >-- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com >For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

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School admin: Microsoft only?
by Mark Evans 20 Sep '02

20 Sep '02

I've been having all sorts of trouble with the attitude of people at our LEA. First was that for PLASC returns they have decided to use RM Securenet which requires MSIE and associated junk. They got upset when I told them "sorry, we don't support that software". Then we have the situation of the latest replacement for the SIMS STAR module "superSTAR". For which Capita have decided to base around Microsoft .NET. (Assuming they don't change their mind yet again.) They recommend workstations with Windows XP, P4/AMD Athlon XP, 1/2G memory, 10G free hard disk, 17" monitor. To meet the kind of specs which the LEA are giving to us would mean spending up to 20 thousand pounds for little, if any, improvement. My overall feeling is that various people have completly lost the plot and really don't understand that the priorities for schools are other than having the latest and greatest toys to play with. Let alone that this spec is completly overblown for a machine to lookup data on database. Sometimes also to do some wordprocessing, email and web browsing. The only way of using something else would be if we could also persuade the majority of secondary schools in Devon to drop SIMS. What are other peoples' experiences? -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Capita SIMS - School Admin Microsoft Only?
by k.williamson 19 Sep '02

19 Sep '02

IMHO, SIMS is not so much a bad system, FMS is horribly useful, and we totally rely on it. I just wish they didnt tie themslevels down to Microsoft Products. "superSTAR" (as claimed below) is Microsoft .NET, FMS is some wierd SQL implementation, Most of our SIMS is wierd old DBASE files, and frankly its an utter mess. Yes, I'd like to see Capita driven to allow other programs to patch on to its databasing, etc. I'd also like to see Capita Compitable Alternatives. "It's a school, how many blank cheques today?" - Kyle >===== Original Message From Alan Harris <alanh(a)squaremail.co.uk> ===== >OK Guys, > >Heres the crunch - SIMS have 90-95% of market share and will only >support Microsoft and are dictating software policy to schools. Sounds >like an antitrust case to me - how about we petition / complain to our >MP's and request that the OFT look into a possible abuse of 'power' here? > >I'm up for a fight if anyone want's to join me...... > >Alan > >BTW: Secure IE? don't make me laugh - IE's secure layer is vulerable to >'man in the middle' attacks - it's been in most computer newspapers etc. > > > >-- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com >For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Capita SIMS - School Admin Microsoft Only?
by Grainge, Derek 19 Sep '02

19 Sep '02

> Even though there is no real reason to make something web-based be > anything specific. > The back end will be very specific to MS SQL server. As for the front end - that was my point - as soon as you use MS products, your user client becomes very specific as well. It's almost impossible to do development avoiding all .net components. Adding cross-platform compatibility will add to development costs and the time to market. We were all whinging about a) cost and b) development time, weren't we? I am not trying to be a Capita apologist. But they will only do what you want if there's something in it for them. I think they're embattled, blinkers on, and don't care about compatibility right now. -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of unacceptable material. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. Website: http://www.wellington-college.berks.sch.uk ********************************************************************************

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Capita SIMS - School Admin Microsoft Only?
by Grainge, Derek 19 Sep '02

19 Sep '02

> > I just wish they didnt tie themslevels down to Microsoft Products. > > "superSTAR" (as claimed below) is Microsoft .NET, FMS is some wierd SQL > > implementation, Most of our SIMS is wierd old DBASE files, and frankly its > > an utter mess. As is Capita Mentor. Many applications with lots of strings with knots in holding it together. They did that by buying up Dolphin, SIMS and so on. > Especially when there really isn't an excuse not to have it. For a company > the size of Capita, why does it take 10s of years to develop a fairly > straightforward SQL data base that is technically well-documented? Capita promise new versions of all products, SQL compatible. All their plans are MS-specific. Their stuff will be web-based, and I know they were at one time looking at Java for the client - but didn't like the GUI - insufficiently controllable. Thus the move into the MS camp. If you are developing MS-platform software now, it's almost impossible to avoid .net, unfortunately. Blame Microsoft. I think you'll find they have a high turnover of programmers and this can't help the development cycle. And where was it that Capita was in the news recently as having screwed up somebody's database? Ah yes, checking that teachers weren't paedophiles. Too many developments, too many people running around, it would seem. Scapegoat or not, it can't help.<opinion> One of the problems is their databases are not straightforward - they are providing structures which cover a wide range of tasks. > Because its only in the customers interest not theirs to do > it Too true. When you get their documentation, you get descriptions of data structures, but as seen from the user's perspective. Little about underlying tables. However most of their *current* products provide an ODBC interface and this makes it easier to delve. Even if the databases are platform-specific at least some compatibility can be provided through ODBC. However I don't expect they will ever provide 'open' documentation. Another problem is that when Capita look at requirements for future developments, they seem only to ask their current user base. If they were interested in getting it right they would be asking a lot of non-Capita users why they didn't buy the products. -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of unacceptable material. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. Website: http://www.wellington-college.berks.sch.uk ********************************************************************************

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Capita SIMS - School Admin Microsoft Only?
by Alan Harris 18 Sep '02

18 Sep '02

OK Guys, Heres the crunch - SIMS have 90-95% of market share and will only support Microsoft and are dictating software policy to schools. Sounds like an antitrust case to me - how about we petition / complain to our MP's and request that the OFT look into a possible abuse of 'power' here? I'm up for a fight if anyone want's to join me...... Alan BTW: Secure IE? don't make me laugh - IE's secure layer is vulerable to 'man in the middle' attacks - it's been in most computer newspapers etc.

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FW: Of interest?
by Chris Puttick 18 Sep '02

18 Sep '02

<<143211-2002.txt>> Surely someone could undercut any other offering for this little DfES invitation? Regards Chris Puttick IT Manager Central Manchester CLC

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] School admin: Microsoft only?
by Bill Antonia 18 Sep '02

18 Sep '02

Probably not at present unless it was tried and tested. At present the ICT team at county are testing the water to see how many schools are interested in moving to CMIS as it would affect their support and the funds they obtain for that role. Their overall timescale is around 3 years. If something came along which was better and more stable than both SIMS and CMIS I am sure they would look into it but there would have to be interest in schools around the county. Regards Bill > Would they be interested in other solutions? > > Regards > > Chris Puttick > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Antonia > To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com > Sent: 9/18/02 3:00 PM > Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] School admin: Microsoft only? > > East Sussex are looking into CMIS, mainly driven by a group of > interested > schools who wish to move away from SIMS. > > Regards > Bill > > > I've been having all sorts of trouble with the > > attitude of people at our LEA. > > > > First was that for PLASC returns they have > > decided to use RM Securenet which requires > > MSIE and associated junk. They got upset when > > I told them "sorry, we don't support that > > software". > > > > Then we have the situation of the latest > > replacement for the SIMS STAR module "superSTAR". > > For which Capita have decided to base around > > Microsoft .NET. (Assuming they don't change > > their mind yet again.) > > They recommend workstations with Windows XP, > > P4/AMD Athlon XP, 1/2G memory, 10G free hard > > disk, 17" monitor. > > To meet the kind of specs which the LEA are > > giving to us would mean spending up to 20 > > thousand pounds for little, if any, improvement. > > > > My overall feeling is that various people > > have completly lost the plot and really > > don't understand that the priorities for > > schools are other than having the latest > > and greatest toys to play with. > > > > Let alone that this spec is completly > > overblown for a machine to lookup data > > on database. Sometimes also to do some > > wordprocessing, email and web browsing. > > > > The only way of using something else would be > > if we could also persuade the majority of > > secondary schools in Devon to drop SIMS. > > > > What are other peoples' experiences? > > > > -- > > Mark Evans > > St. Peter's CofE High School > > Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 > > Fax: +44 1392 204763 > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com > > For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com > > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com > For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com >

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