July 2002 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Quota
by Dave Williams 22 Jul '02

22 Jul '02

Hi all I'm determined to keep this group going with an endless stream of fascinating questions............. I'm using Suse 8.0 and ReiserFS but I can't get quota to work. I've read the quota mini Howto and I understand that quota on 7.3 was flawed but I can't seem to get a working version. The error I get is quotaon: using //aquota.user on /dev/sda3 [/]: invalid argument Has anyone got quota to work on this combination of Suse/Reiser? Any help much appreciated. Dave Williams

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Samba & permissions
by Matt Johnson 21 Jul '02

21 Jul '02

Some advice needed please: Is is generally better to (1) try to mainly use native linux permissions to retrict access to a samba server by windows clients, or (2) leave native permissions reasonably slack, using instead smb.conf to restrict access, or (3) a combination of both? Also, is there somewhere that documents what native permissions and actual directory structures an administrator should setup on a samba server to be used as a PDC. i.e. Is there a standard place to put netlogon? I bet I have it in the wrong place on the linux box, but it's worked fine. I have it at /netlogon, but should it be further down a path somewhere. I have similar questions: I can find the howto's but I'm looking for a documented directory stucture and native permissions, along with the relevant smb.conf. Thanks for any pointers. -- Matt Johnson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

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1 Billion for IT
by Richard Ibbotson 18 Jul '02

18 Jul '02

Dear all As there have been many times on this when the issue of the cost of software has been raised and the other things to do with Linux in schools are also discussed I thought that this would be the place to send some mail about Government spending on IT projects... from today's Computing trade paper.. " Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown has earmarked an extra £1bn for Government IT projects in the Comprehensive Spending Review. The biggest increase in public spending in 30 years sees technology at the heart of plans to modernise the public sector and bring service levels in line with European rivals. Issues singled out for IT budget increases include, education, benefits payments, local government, customs and excise and small business services. The biggest single winner is the criminal justice system - an extra £650m over three years to streamline case management takes the project's total budget to nearly £1bn. .... it goes on to say... These figures do not include the extra £1bn for NHS IT announced in April's budget. Extra commitment to technology investment is positive, but effectiveness may suffer without a clear strategic framework says CBI head of ebusiness Jeremy Beale." Pages 4 and 5 say more. Seems to me that only the word Microsoft has been mentioned ? Perhaps someone should explain something about Linux to our Jeremy ? Or, is he just the kind of Jeremy that people take him to be ? Thanks -- Richard www.sheflug.co.uk

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Starting the revolution?
by Damian Sweeney 16 Jul '02

16 Jul '02

An amusing anecdote: A Microsoft representative phoned a school in our area to discuss agreements, et al. The network administrator, when asked for a response to the offers given said, 'Well I've got an answer for you, StarOffice and Linux.' To which our friendly Microsoft rep. replied, rather unexpectedly, 'Yeah, good choice.' Decay from within has begun? -----Original Message----- From: Alan Harris <alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk> To: techlist(a)satproj.org.uk, suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:32:56 +0100 Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Starting the revolution? Interesting article in the register :- Microsoft 'hoovers millions' from UK Schools - MP http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/26124.html Follow up on http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/News/NewsStory.asp?Brand=EDPONLINE&Category=… Time to 'Inform' our MP's of just what is going on then? BTW: Anyone here concerned over SIMS 'upgrade to microsoft or else' type policy? I have a meeting with them tomorrow to discuss thier so called upgrade path - i'd value any comments you may have. Alan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

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Boot ROMs
by Michael Brown 16 Jul '02

16 Jul '02

Just remembered that some people on this list have expressed an interest in buying ready-to-run network cards with BootROMs (using Etherboot software, suitable for use with LTSP or Fen Systems' own terminal-server setup[*]). There are two options available: 1. If you want a large quantity (>10) to be used in an actual installation, then contact me by e-mail. 2. If you want one or two just to play with then I'll do a special deal: 4 pounds per BootROM incl P&P. Restricted to "a few" per customer; this is "favour for a friend" pricing rather than "comercially realistic" pricing. BootROMs will fit in a D-Link DFE-538TX card, available for around 11 pounds IIRC, and I'll supply a floppy disc image that contains the software necessary to enable the D-Link's BootROM socket. [*] which will be part of the next Mandrake release. :-) Michael Brown http://www.fensystems.co.uk -- Fen Systems: Linux made easy for schools

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Starting the revolution?
by Ian Lynch 16 Jul '02

16 Jul '02

> >IanL > > True. Applemore has a mix of (mostly) Windows 2000 boxes, and 2 Unix based > servers, one being our proxy server, which (against my better judgement) is > being replaced from the ever-reliable squid to Microsoft's ISA due to a > lack of knowledge on the part of the remaining two ICT technicial blokeys. Tell Frank Callaghan, if it ain't broke don't fix it ;-) > We have around 350 machines (including 120 laptops), and we're using PARS. > It seems right now that we're using so many systems, sometimes it would be > nice for someone to come along and sell us an entire solution, one system > for everything. Not sure such a beast exists. Its certainly possible to set up a manageable system with integration of Windows and Linux that is pretty well seamless as far as the user is concerned and does not rely on a lot of expensive systems management software. > We also invested a large amount of money in a 24-Hour School in the last > year, this is an Apache based system (in-house) on a Win2k Server. I fear > we have scarficed stablity and reability for lack of knowledge. Seems starnge to run Apache on Win2000 not Linux? What is the advantage? > Which is a real shame. > - Kyle > > == > > Kyle M. Williamson > 24-Hour School Development > Applemore College, Roman Road, Dibden Purlieu, Southampton, Hampshire, SO45 > 4RQ > > Tel: (023) 80 848804 Ext: 216 > Fax: (023) 80 848715 > > ********************************************************************** > This email and any files transmitted with it are private and > intended solely for the use of the addressee. > > If you are not the intended recipient, the E-mail and associated > files have been transmitted to you in error: any copying, distribution > or other use of the information contained in them is strictly > prohibited. > > Nothing in this E-mail may be interpreted as a contractual or other > legal commitment on the part of Applemore College unless confirmed > by a communication signed by or on behalf of the Principal. > > If you are of the opinion that have received this email in error, > please contact admin(a)applemore.hants.sch.uk > **********************************************************************

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Starting the revolution?
by Chris Puttick 16 Jul '02

16 Jul '02

Is anyone out there seriously considering the alternatives? -----Original Message----- From: Alan Harris To: techlist(a)satproj.org.uk; suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Sent: 7/11/02 9:32 AM Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Starting the revolution? Interesting article in the register :- Microsoft 'hoovers millions' from UK Schools - MP http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/26124.html Follow up on http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/News/NewsStory.asp?Brand=EDPONLINE&Catego ry=NEWS&ItemId=NOED10+Jul+2002+00%3A28%3A57%3A447 Time to 'Inform' our MP's of just what is going on then? BTW: Anyone here concerned over SIMS 'upgrade to microsoft or else' type policy? I have a meeting with them tomorrow to discuss thier so called upgrade path - i'd value any comments you may have. Alan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] SendMail Relays
by Chris Puttick 15 Jul '02

15 Jul '02

Seems odd - anyone who believes Linux is more stress than MS products has only considered the very short term. As a MS trained IT professional, Linux has been a revelation - available to work out of the box or customised to your needs. On the staffing side, I'll get blunter: knowing how to use MS at home, or even in a business context does not qualify or even prepare you for implementing MS solutions in a school environment. Believing that it does is the biggest source of problems for moving IT forwards in schools. Schools collectively need to accept that an ICT environment with 300+ PCs and 1200 users need to be supported by professionals and that those professionals will need to be paid 2 or 3 times what is currently offered. At these more realistic salaries, recruiting replacements will not be so difficult. Teachers (current company excepted) are not the right people to make IT decisions as they do not have the depth of knowledge required. IT management is not a part-time occupation, and your IT manager needs to be involved in school strategy for the best, most cost-effective and education-effective IT strategies. And don't get me wrong, this isn't personal; I'm one of the lucky ones :-) For compatibility problems elimination, see StarOffice 6. Not just because of its MS file read/write ability, but because you can supply copies to the pupils and staff! Regards Chris -----Original Message----- From: Colin McQueen To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Sent: 7/14/02 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] SendMail Relays In message <20020710164100.EJNR19225.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@there> Ian Lynch <ian.lynch2(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: > On Tuesday 09 July 2002 21:36, you wrote: > > > This really needs to be done. Schools have got > > to see the benefits. I'm about to spend £10 000 on mickeysoft licences. > > Why? You can get round this largely with what we are doing. In East Hull CLC > we installed 120 wireless thin clients and saved about 30k in software ==20 > licensing and more in hardware and management time. The kids using it don't > seem at all bothered. Also we can manage their servers for them remotely so > its very inexpensive to get very expert support. My view is that if you have > say lots of Windows 95 machines and they run your curriculum software why > change? Very few apps are going to only run on XP so if it ain't broke why > fix it? If you use thin client to run your office, graphics, web etc software > from servers you then just upgrade your servers every few years and the whole > network is upgraded and the software for all that aspect is free and will > remain so. We can make your local Windows proof against hacking and viruses > at no extra cost. In the longer term as more develops you will be able to > dump local windows altogether because everything will go web based. > > > no choice I'm afraid. > > There's always a choice ;-) Well depends obviously on people above you. We > tend to deal with some innovative people who want to be at the cutting edge > and tend to be prepared to take what others see as a risk. But then the only > risk in business is to take no risk. I don't want to take risks with the limited amount of time we have for ICT in schools. To start running another system (we are just removing the last 3 RISC OS suites) instead of consolidating the system most people have will cause a drop in teaching efficiency for a while at least. It would lots of planning time to try and avoid this. I have too many inexperienced and insecure staff teaching the odd ICT lesson. if they have to cope with something too different to what they use at home they get too stressed. Now I have heard all the arguemts about compatability but on the ground there are still too many problems. We have a need for a pupil to be able to work at home or at any station in school and be able to transfer files about with as few problems as possible. I have worked for 15 years trying to get pupils and staff to understand the ways around filer transfers between different applications and platforms. Its is not something the majority of people have time for. you only end up annouing them because you don't give them the answer they need for a quick fix. "I don't want to understand - I just want it to work!" We have a thin client system. We have been at the forefront. We have struggled to cope, and to relieve the stress on Network Manager, technicains, staff and some pupils, we need consistency. Windows got its foot in because Linux wasn't ready for the desktop in schools. I'd love it to have been different. The most used application after Word in school is Powerpoint, simply because its easy and fun. I realise that the future is the web and MickeySoft's web output is awful for anything but MickeySoft infested clients. But what seems to be at the forefront of the NC in ICT is what the pupils do not what they understand. PowerPoint get's them doing and actually I have been amazed at the innovative work some of them have done. Can I tell the pupils that they can use this Linux box to do the same sort of stuff, so easily AND that it will work at home sp they can continue there? > > > But it should be about the last until we need to > > upgrade, We're reaching saturation with 1:5 computer to pupil ratio. > > With thin clients the upgrades are much cheaper so if you use a mixture you > can demote older machines to thin client and save enough to buy more thick > clients without killing the environment. We may well have done this but the governors came up with £90 000 grand. Coping with NT thin clients and W98 desktops making sure the policies for all the Office products match up on both platforms and work in the same way isn't exactly easy, for schools. > > On my model saturation isn't reached until 1:1 - its affordable and long term > sustainable and we can plan the space management needed. > I'd love to see the planning for space AND electrical power sockets, that doesn't invade some of our class rooms with noise and heat. Then you will also have to persuade our ISP to give us a bigger chunk of IP addreses for their Intranet. We've been given 508 and half of those are on the admin side of the router. > > Good luck. All I can do really is to remind the head and the bods at > > Hampshire that open source is out there. I'm afraid I can't change our > > school to it in any form for at least 3 years now. > > Well get a toe in the water because it doesn't have to be all one thing or > another and if you do change in 3 years, experience will make it a lot ==20 > easier. We've got experience but that may disappear. What happens when I or the Network Manager move on? And at the end of the day I just don't have enough time. My family need me and I'd rather spend more time on planning my lessons when it comes to work. I used to relish the technical stuff ... :( > We have a lot of interest, more than enough to keep us busy so its > best if everyone doesn't all decide to try and change at once from my point > of view. Its going to take years but I think that change is inevitable. Change is but few can predict what will happen ;-) -- Colin McQueen : Using an Acorn StrongARM Risc PC Web Domain : http://www.mcqueen.uk.net/ BSc Zoology + Oceanography : PGCE : MSc in CBL/T -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

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NT Vs Linux Vs Navaho (Was: SendMail relays)
by Colin McQueen 15 Jul '02

15 Jul '02

In message <20020710164100.EJNR19225.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@there> Ian Lynch <ian.lynch2(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: > On Tuesday 09 July 2002 21:36, you wrote: <snip> > > What will be vital is the support. We use navaho for web/email and > > the support is second to none. > > Theoreticaly we are a reseller of the Navaho system, but in practice we can > implement far more comprehensive network management using vanilla Linux and > its less expensive to schools. <snip> Yes Vanill;a Linux is cheaper BUT the Navaho we use is not a Network Management solution, we use NT for that. Its a mail, web proxy and caledaring system with comprehensive monitoring. We don't use the the local filing system side. Vanilla Linux is never going to be as fast because of the single binary that is Navaho. An exciting new adjunct is a webfiler to re-export the users NT file area through a web front end. One of the problems I've found with Linux is the permissions. You **seem** to get far more control using NT permissions. But please tell **me I'm wrong because I'd love to be able to argue losing NT for filing. -- Colin McQueen : Using an Acorn StrongARM Risc PC Web Domain : http://www.mcqueen.uk.net/ BSc Zoology + Oceanography : PGCE : MSc in CBL/T

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] SendMail Relays
by Colin McQueen 14 Jul '02

14 Jul '02

In message <20020710164100.EJNR19225.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@there> Ian Lynch <ian.lynch2(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: > On Tuesday 09 July 2002 21:36, you wrote: > > > This really needs to be done. Schools have got > > to see the benefits. I'm about to spend £10 000 on mickeysoft licences. > > Why? You can get round this largely with what we are doing. In East Hull CLC > we installed 120 wireless thin clients and saved about 30k in software =20 > licensing and more in hardware and management time. The kids using it don't > seem at all bothered. Also we can manage their servers for them remotely so > its very inexpensive to get very expert support. My view is that if you have > say lots of Windows 95 machines and they run your curriculum software why > change? Very few apps are going to only run on XP so if it ain't broke why > fix it? If you use thin client to run your office, graphics, web etc software > from servers you then just upgrade your servers every few years and the whole > network is upgraded and the software for all that aspect is free and will > remain so. We can make your local Windows proof against hacking and viruses > at no extra cost. In the longer term as more develops you will be able to > dump local windows altogether because everything will go web based. > > > no choice I'm afraid. > > There's always a choice ;-) Well depends obviously on people above you. We > tend to deal with some innovative people who want to be at the cutting edge > and tend to be prepared to take what others see as a risk. But then the only > risk in business is to take no risk. I don't want to take risks with the limited amount of time we have for ICT in schools. To start running another system (we are just removing the last 3 RISC OS suites) instead of consolidating the system most people have will cause a drop in teaching efficiency for a while at least. It would lots of planning time to try and avoid this. I have too many inexperienced and insecure staff teaching the odd ICT lesson. if they have to cope with something too different to what they use at home they get too stressed. Now I have heard all the arguemts about compatability but on the ground there are still too many problems. We have a need for a pupil to be able to work at home or at any station in school and be able to transfer files about with as few problems as possible. I have worked for 15 years trying to get pupils and staff to understand the ways around filer transfers between different applications and platforms. Its is not something the majority of people have time for. you only end up annouing them because you don't give them the answer they need for a quick fix. "I don't want to understand - I just want it to work!" We have a thin client system. We have been at the forefront. We have struggled to cope, and to relieve the stress on Network Manager, technicains, staff and some pupils, we need consistency. Windows got its foot in because Linux wasn't ready for the desktop in schools. I'd love it to have been different. The most used application after Word in school is Powerpoint, simply because its easy and fun. I realise that the future is the web and MickeySoft's web output is awful for anything but MickeySoft infested clients. But what seems to be at the forefront of the NC in ICT is what the pupils do not what they understand. PowerPoint get's them doing and actually I have been amazed at the innovative work some of them have done. Can I tell the pupils that they can use this Linux box to do the same sort of stuff, so easily AND that it will work at home sp they can continue there? > > > But it should be about the last until we need to > > upgrade, We're reaching saturation with 1:5 computer to pupil ratio. > > With thin clients the upgrades are much cheaper so if you use a mixture you > can demote older machines to thin client and save enough to buy more thick > clients without killing the environment. We may well have done this but the governors came up with £90 000 grand. Coping with NT thin clients and W98 desktops making sure the policies for all the Office products match up on both platforms and work in the same way isn't exactly easy, for schools. > > On my model saturation isn't reached until 1:1 - its affordable and long term > sustainable and we can plan the space management needed. > I'd love to see the planning for space AND electrical power sockets, that doesn't invade some of our class rooms with noise and heat. Then you will also have to persuade our ISP to give us a bigger chunk of IP addreses for their Intranet. We've been given 508 and half of those are on the admin side of the router. > > Good luck. All I can do really is to remind the head and the bods at > > Hampshire that open source is out there. I'm afraid I can't change our > > school to it in any form for at least 3 years now. > > Well get a toe in the water because it doesn't have to be all one thing or > another and if you do change in 3 years, experience will make it a lot =20 > easier. We've got experience but that may disappear. What happens when I or the Network Manager move on? And at the end of the day I just don't have enough time. My family need me and I'd rather spend more time on planning my lessons when it comes to work. I used to relish the technical stuff ... :( > We have a lot of interest, more than enough to keep us busy so its > best if everyone doesn't all decide to try and change at once from my point > of view. Its going to take years but I think that change is inevitable. Change is but few can predict what will happen ;-) -- Colin McQueen : Using an Acorn StrongARM Risc PC Web Domain : http://www.mcqueen.uk.net/ BSc Zoology + Oceanography : PGCE : MSc in CBL/T

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