May 2001 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Meeting yesterday and welcome to new members of the list
by Philip Hands 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Roger Whittaker <roger(a)suse-linux.co.uk> writes: > I've just subscribed various people to the list - please post a > message to say hello and introduce yourselves. Hi, If you were at the meeting, I was wearing a Debian t-shirt (with a red swirl logo on it) --- there's a photo at the top of this article, where I'm wearing similar stuff (except for the penguin ;-) http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/articles/issue6/lu6-Editorial-A_patently_bad_ide… I'm a Debian GNU/Linux developer, and run the UK Debian mirror, and am responsible for producing the Debian official CD images: http://www.uk.debian.org/ http://cdimage.debian.org/ I have only a peripheral interest in educational matters, in that I've been frustrated in the past in my efforts to provide free computers (which were otherwise destined for a skip), but I can certainly contribute on a technical side, and having been involved in Debian (which is completely voluntary, like OSIE is expected to be) since 1996 I may be able to make some suggestions about how to ``organise'' such a thing. For those of you who've not come across Debian before, we're a world-wide voluntary organisation (read, chaotic jumble of mailing lists) that puts together a Linux distribution (and soon a HURD distribution) and gives it away. Debian doesn't pay people to do this, and doesn't sell what it produces, and in most legal senses doesn't really exist (i.e. the machines in the mirror network mostly belong to people like me, rather than to Debian, and the bandwidth is donated rather than paid for). This probably gives a pretty good feel for what Debian is all about: http://www.uk.debian.org/social_contract which you will notice leads into the The Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG), which is where the Open Source Definition came from. My internet machine, that hosts the Debian UK mirror, may be of use to OSIE, since it has about 30GB of spare disk, and a 20Mbit/s connection at a well connected ISP. This machine could act as either a primary host or mirror site for the web site, and could do DNS secondarying etc. as well. Something I'd be interested in working on (although perhaps a SuSE list is not the right place to spend too much time discussing this ;-) would be producing Debian CD images, tuned to the needs of educational users. Debian has accumulated some funds in the UK, and have been looking for a worthwhile cause to spend them on (we never really need to pay for anything that actually makes Debian work, so don't have much use for money), so we could probably afford to have a few thousand CDs pressed, and send them out to schools that are interested. Cheers, Phil. -- Say no to software patents! http://petition.eurolinux.org/ Philip Hands. +44 (0)20 7744 6244 philip.hands(a)uk.alcove.com Alcove UK --- Liberating Software --- http://www.alcove.com/ http://www.hands.com/ phil(a)hands.com http://www.uk.debian.org/

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Cygwin/XFree86
by Michael Brown 01 Jun '01

01 Jun '01

As you may or may not know, XFree86 has been successfully ported to MS Windows. You can get all the necessary bits to set it up yourselves from http://xfree86.cygwin.com/. Cygwin/XFree86 represents a nice and easy way to start experimenting with Linux thin-client setups, without having to mess around with boot ROMs and all the other minor hassles of approaches such as LTSP. It's really only suitable for *experimenting*, because it is nowhere near as fast as 'native' XF86. I have put together a single Zip file containing all the bits needed to start XF86 on Windows and use it to run applications on a remote Linux/BSD server (a la thin-client). This is significantly smaller than the amount you will end up downloading if you follow the instructions on Cygwin's web site. I have also added a couple of features such as autodetection of the screen size and colour depth (which are missing from the 'raw' release), and some extra diagnostic code. If anyone would be interested in testing this, please let me know and I'll e-mail it to you. If there's enough demand, I'll put it on the web. It should currently be considered as "alpha" quality (i.e. it works for me and it should work elsewhere, but I haven't tested it on a wide variety of machines yet). Note: you will need a working Linux application server on the network, set up to answer to XDMCP broadcast requests. An out-of-the-box Linux Mandrake setup will do this - I expect that other distributions will as well. Michael Brown http://www.fensystems.co.uk/

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[Fwd: [suse-linux-uk-schools] GUI file transfer vi SSH]
by Chris Howells 31 May '01

31 May '01

Is it evreybody that goes one of these each time they post to this list? I'll probably get another one now, but nevermind Argh! -- Cheers, Chris Howells -- chris(a)chrishowells.co.uk http://www.chrishowells.co.uk

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GUI file transfer vi SSH
by Phil Driscoll 31 May '01

31 May '01

I have a situation where I need to allow a group of non-technical users to be able to browse/copy/retrieve arbitrary files to and from a reasonably secure remote server. I am trying reaaly hard not to have to put an FTP server on the machine, and SSH/SCP is my preferred technology. This is no problem for the users who will be doing the job from Windows boxes - WinSCP does the job nicely. However a couple of users need to do this from linux boxes, but I can't find a gui front end to do the job. Basically it has to be as simple as a Windows Explorer/Konquerer interface. Any ideas? -- Phil Driscoll

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Network card problems
by Edgehill E-Mail Service 25 May '01

25 May '01

Standard Via-Rhine drivers should work with this card (we get full 100Mbps out of the box) but Smoothwall has proven problematic all round. I can't be more helpful - we abandoned until Smoothwall is fully matured, and is installable by a windows-geek (like myself) <lol>. We could ping the box but not talk. Good luck. Paul Paul P. Ellison ICT Manager Edgehill College -------------------------------------------------------------- Legal Advisory: Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000. --------------------------------------------- You are warned that all electronic communications are subject to interception for regulatory, quality control and crime detection purposes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edgehill IT Department Email Service. Please check sender's address from body of Message for return address. Find us at: www.edgecoll.clara.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- > From: Gary Stainburn <gary.stainburn(a)ringways.co.uk> > To: npauli <npauli(a)st-johns.org.uk>; suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com > Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Network card problems > Date: 25 May 2001 09:19 > > I've successfully got a DFE530-TX card running on an MDK7.2 system > here. Somewhere (can't find it now, thought it was on the floppy but > it isn't) there is some documentation on installing these cards on a > Linux system. You should use a rtl8139 driver with this card. Also, > to get full-duplex and 100Mbit out of it you need to make some kernel > changes - although on MDK these settings were already on. > > Gary > > On Thursday 24 May 2001 8:30 pm, npauli wrote: > > Dear All, > > > > I'm trying to install Smoothwall-0.9.8 onto an IBM P166 that I bought > > from Morgan Computers. I'm using a D-Link DFE530-TX card that uses a > > VIA-Rhine driver and a PCI slot but I'm having no joy getting the > > card to install on the box. The mainboard is a 'Personal Computer > > 300GL System Board'. > > > > I use a boot.img floppy that comes with Smoothwall and the opening > > screen brings up a boot: _ prompt and offers me the chance of > > entering kernel parameters or just pressing RETURN. Should I be > > typing in something at this point? > > > > I get successfully through partitioning the hard disk but fall over > > at the first hurdle on the 'configure networking' stage. The screen > > starts off by telling me: 'You should now configure networking by > > first loading the correct driver for the GREEN interface.' This > > throws me a bit. Does this mean that it really hasn't detected > > anything? Autoprobing fails and when I choose the 'VIA Rhine PCI Fast > > Ethernet, etc' option from the list of drivers it immediately flashes > > back 'Error: Unable to load driver module'. > > > > The machine came with a network card already in an ISA slot and the > > diagram of the System Board shows an onboard 'Integrated Ethernet > > Controller' when I gave this a try at least its LEDs flashed. At no > > time during the power on and boot up do the LEDs on the PCI netwlrk > > card flash. Does this mean that the PCI slots are somehow disabled? > > > > In the machine's 'Configuration / Setup Utilty' under 'Advanced > > Setup' there is scope to toggle options to do with PCI Control. > > Changes here don't alter what happens at all. > > > > Has anyone any advice? > > -- > Gary Stainburn > > This email does not contain private or confidential material as it > may be snooped on by interested government parties for unknown > and undisclosed purposes - Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000 > >

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Network card problems
by Chris Howells 25 May '01

25 May '01

> From: Gary Stainburn <gary.stainburn(a)ringways.co.uk> > I've successfully got a DFE530-TX card running on an MDK7.2 system > here. Somewhere (can't find it now, thought it was on the floppy but > it isn't) there is some documentation on installing these cards on a > Linux system. You should use a rtl8139 driver with this card. Also, That's not quite right. There are two versions of the card -- one uses the via-rhine and the other the rtl8139. I use a 530-TX on my Debian box with the via-rhine. > to get full-duplex and 100Mbit out of it you need to make some kernel > changes - although on MDK these settings were already on. I don't know anything about that. -- Cheers, Chris Howells -- chrish(a)gmx.co.uk http://www.chowells.uklinux.net

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ISDN Routers
by Simon Davies 25 May '01

25 May '01

Hi folks, There is a company who are selling ISDN Routers for £30 with 12 months warranty. They are at http://www.hypertec.co.uk and click on the special offers star in the centre Check them out, for 30 squid you get a router with a built in 4 port hub running at 10mbps, at that price you cant go wrong can you ?? Simon Queen Elizabeth Cambria School

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Network card problems
by npauli 25 May '01

25 May '01

Dear All, I'm trying to install Smoothwall-0.9.8 onto an IBM P166 that I bought from Morgan Computers. I'm using a D-Link DFE530-TX card that uses a VIA-Rhine driver and a PCI slot but I'm having no joy getting the card to install on the box. The mainboard is a 'Personal Computer 300GL System Board'. I use a boot.img floppy that comes with Smoothwall and the opening screen brings up a boot: _ prompt and offers me the chance of entering kernel parameters or just pressing RETURN. Should I be typing in something at this point? I get successfully through partitioning the hard disk but fall over at the first hurdle on the 'configure networking' stage. The screen starts off by telling me: 'You should now configure networking by first loading the correct driver for the GREEN interface.' This throws me a bit. Does this mean that it really hasn't detected anything? Autoprobing fails and when I choose the 'VIA Rhine PCI Fast Ethernet, etc' option from the list of drivers it immediately flashes back 'Error: Unable to load driver module'. The machine came with a network card already in an ISA slot and the diagram of the System Board shows an onboard 'Integrated Ethernet Controller' when I gave this a try at least its LEDs flashed. At no time during the power on and boot up do the LEDs on the PCI netwlrk card flash. Does this mean that the PCI slots are somehow disabled? In the machine's 'Configuration / Setup Utilty' under 'Advanced Setup' there is scope to toggle options to do with PCI Control. Changes here don't alter what happens at all. Has anyone any advice?

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XML and Modularisation (was: SIF and UK/Linux)
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 23 May '01

23 May '01

> I was trying to suggest that, ... [snip] Ah - see what you mean :-) Re: XML Modularisation. I have not read the article you mention in detail, but it appears to be splitting XHTML up into individual bits ... so that it is possible to say which aspects of XHTML are supported on specific devices ... is that correct? If so, then presumably you could take a common XML source, process it using stylesheets to output using the range of supported XHTML modules for the device viewing the information .... if this is correct then this sounds like it would fit in with things like the apache XML projects 'cocoon' stuff pretty well ... (see xml.apache.org) ie - this is the output format, but if you wanted to support many different devices, you would need some sort of processing tool to generate the required output from a common piece of XML input source ... (this is the bit of XML that I really like ... - using XSL transformations :-) Anyway, will have a serious read sometime :-) Kevin.

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Office LAN on the web the nitty gritty
by James & Cybèle 23 May '01

23 May '01

> Both easy and very much advisable, I think, you should save them a lot of > money. > Ok, I've been playing with the networks. The office has a peer to peer (?)setup of three machines using win98 protocols. The only IP is the one installed recently for a printer/photo copier they now have. I've plugged their network into my hub (they continue operating separate from me (The linux served network). I assumed I could just point their browsers at squid but it didn't work. I even tried ALLOW ALL in SQUID. What am I missing (something simple) or is there a physical piece of equipment I need) James Carter South Lee School

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LTSP Image help.
by Derek Harding 22 May '01

22 May '01

Hi Folks, I've got a whole load of Compaq workstations which I want to boot as thin clients ala LTSP. The NICs are on the motherboard and are reported as Netelligent 10/100 but I don't know what they are generically and I want to build Rom-o-matic images. Anyone tell me what will work for them? -- Best wishes, Derek Harding, (BA MIAP) ICT & Network Manager, Warlingham School hardingd(a)warlingham.surrey.sch.uk

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] SIF and UK/Linux
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 22 May '01

22 May '01

>> When reading about XML, remember that XML is not >> a replacement for HTML > XHTML *is* a replacement for HTML. Yes - XHTML is, but XML isn't. The reason I said this was that a lot of people think that they should go off and rewrite their HTML pages in XML ... but of course if they do anything - you are correct - they should move to XHTML (eventually) as the 'next' version of 'HTML' after v4. > If everyone standardized on XHTML as a format for storing > data then the World (Wide Web) would be a wonderful place. Hang on though - XHTML is just one application of XML. The reasons XML came along were because HTML defines a single document, with no structure - it defines headings, paragraphs, etc - but nothing about chapters or sections ... SGML was about structure, but is too bulky for simple parsers to be written. XML describes structure - see DocBook for an example of an XML application that is geared up to writing structured documentation. It is easy to convert to XML and forget about the structured formatting .. in fact converting to XHTML is just that. There is nothing wrong with this, but you are missing out on one of the core benefits of XML (see next comment). > Adopting well-formed XHTML for displaying our documents > might well be a good first stage before we all go over to > storing documents as badly-formed XML. XML is about much more than just presenting information. It is about structure. Ok - you can see a nice document in XHTML ... but this is just one output - what about WAP phones? PDAs ? If you are using DocBook (say) or some other XML source, the idea is that you process it, using a stylesheet to produce an appropriate format: Browser reads it -> XML Source + Stylesheet => XHTML output WAP Phone reads it -> XML Source + different stylesheet => WML output Something else -> etc. Also, a search engine or indexing system could process the same XML source, and because it can derive some context about the structure, can extract the relavent bits of the information it needs: Indexer -> XML Source + another stylesheet => XHTML heading list (say) etc. This is why I say XML is about structure - and this is the thing that gets people interested. If you use one of these news ticker applications (eg bbc or slashdot, etc) then chances are you are using XML. News headlines are exchanged using RSS (an XML application) - you ticker/browser etc will apply a stylesheet (effectively) and format this information into a form that you can then read. Point IE5 at http://slashdot.net/slashdot.rdf for an example. > I suspect that most organizations will miss the point about XML, yet > another (probably doomed) attempt to separate MEANING from APPEARANCE. Maybe - but strict XHTML forces this anyway - you should use XHTML and CSS. > No one cares. I care :-) > One of the reasons everybody likes Word is that it's very > easy to put your memo in 15 different fonts with bold and italic headings. Fine. Thats up to them - but if they want to publish it on-line ... well again, they can fight with 'save as HTML' ... :-) Kevin.

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] SIF and UK/Linux
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 22 May '01

22 May '01

> I only ask 'cos I don't know the pros & cons of XML. XML is great for providing a context to data that computers can understand. Poeple derive context from meaning, position on the page, etc. Computers can't. XML is open, easy to process in applications, is open, has lots of existing parser support, is open, is based on text, is open, ... :-) See : http://www.w3.org/XML/1999/XML-in-10-points For a quick introduction to the key benefits of XML. When reading about XML, remember that XML is not a replacement for HTML - it is a standard way of defining things *like* HTML in a structured way. It is not really meant to be read directly by people - you write an XML source and if it is to be seen, you define a stylesheet which indicates to the viewing application how to present the information. Kevin.

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] SIF and UK/Linux
by Mr G M Locock 22 May '01

22 May '01

On Tue, 22 May, Derek Harding wrote: > On Tuesday 22 May 2001 9:14 am, you wrote: > > > Yes - it's already in this country, see > > > http://www.dfee.gov.uk/ims/cbds.shtml > > > and I hope we will be using this sort of format soon. And there was me thinking PDF was on the way to being a "universal" format. Proprietary of course... but at least not MS. Do we need yet another standard?? I only ask 'cos I don't know the pros & cons of XML. > > Hmmm. Not a particularly good start - much of the > > documentation (even the FAQs) for this appear to > > be provided in proprietory document formats! > > > >From their site there is a feedback option which I returned to them saying > just what I thought about proprietry formats. Perhaps something to ask those > fellows on the hustings in the coming weeks! > I look forward to informed, high quality answers! :-) Gary -- G M Locock, Network Manager Bablake Junior School, Coundon Road, Coventry, UK, CV1 4AU Tel: (+44) 24 7663 4052; Fax: (+44) 24 7663 3290 Web: http://www.bablakejs.co.uk Email: gml(a)bablakejs.co.uk

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] SIF and UK/Linux
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 22 May '01

22 May '01

> Yes - it's already in this country, see > http://www.dfee.gov.uk/ims/cbds.shtml > and I hope we will be using this sort of format soon. Hmmm. Not a particularly good start - much of the documentation (even the FAQs) for this appear to be provided in proprietory document formats! Kevin.

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Schools Interoperability Framework and UK/Linux
by kevin.taylor＠powerconv.alstom.com 21 May '01

21 May '01

Does anyone know what affect the Schools Interoperability Framework is going to have on UK Schools (if any) ? If there really is a push towards common data formats (XML) for tools within education, then this can only be good for open source solutions (I would say). Anyone looking into this? http://www.siia.net/sif/default.htm (Thought I would mention it - I don't recall there being any comments about this in the past ... but could be wrong). Kevin.

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Re: [Wylug-help] RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] AS ICT
by Phil Driscoll 21 May '01

21 May '01

On Monday 21 May 2001 11:41, Ben Fowler wrote: > >2). you can access a MySQL database with Access with an OBC module (I > > > > >think...). > > I believe that you can, but I have not tried it. I would be > interested in hearing reports on this as I need to access a MySQL > database with FileMaker, ideally fire off some SQL from FileMaker > and get a table back et cetera, et cetera. You can do this, and I think the instructions might even be in the MySQL manual. I haven't done it for a long time, but my first ever MySQL job involved transferring a load of records form an Access database to MySQL and I did this entirely from within the Access GUI - although I can't remember what I did :) Cheers -- Phil Driscoll

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Script for Over Night Backup
by Coulton,G 21 May '01

21 May '01

Hi, Someone in one of the mailings has talked about running a backup over night from a server to some hard disks in varying locations. Would that person (Sorry I have had to delete the mail to keep my mailbox size down), mind mailing the script, as it would be an invaluable thing to see. I could just copy and paste the user information, but the script would be good. Thanks Gary

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] AS ICT
by Simon Wood 21 May '01

21 May '01

Hi Paul, Approximately a year ago someone gave an introductory talk at my local LUG (West Yorkshire) on MySQL, unfortunately it's not on the web site (www.wylug.org.uk) but hopefully they'll respond as I've copied the wylug list. Perhaps this would be useful as a starting point.... Other thoughts I had: 1). MySQL will have the advantage that it will push forward the point that a real database is far from the pointy/clicky M$ world. Using MySQL would teach concept of databases rather than the use of a specific application. 2). you can access a MySQL database with Access with an OBC module (I think...). 3). you can show how you might use PHP/Apache to access a database in a 'real world' situation. Example project could be something like an online record store (I'm guessing this would appeal to AS level people). Good luck, Simon Wood > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Taylor [SMTP:paul.taylor@bemail.org] > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 8:46 AM > To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com > Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] AS ICT > > Hi all: > > Has anyone out there taught mysql et al to A level students? Is it possible? I am about to teach my AS students their second ICT project and was hoping I could do something interesting on Linux rather than the usual Access stuff. Databases are not my forte and my students are struggling to get D grade projects in Excel so something very accessible (no pun intended) would be nice. > > Paul > ptaylor(a)uklinux.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Free, BeOS-friendly email accounts: http://BeMail.org/ > Free Peepshow - http://twinfusion.com/comic/peep/

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RAID server
by Phil Driscoll 19 May '01

19 May '01

Over the next month or two I need to set up a server for my old secondary school to provide user storage for all the pupils. There are just over 800 kids at the school, so I guess a total of about 1Tb of storage would be sensible. Currently the school is about half Acorn and half Windows, but the Acorns are being phased out in favour of new Windows machines - although they might be new Linux machines if I can make the school see sense :-). Clearly the storage requirements for the Windows software is of a different order of magnitude to the Acorn stuff, so 1Gb per child does not seem overly generous to me. So to the question: I'm happy setting up Linux as a Samba server to do this lot, but does anyone have experience/advice on choice of hardware for the job (I'm happy to build a machine from bits). RAID is a must, but IDE gives us a lot more Mb for our money than SCSI, but maybe at the cost of performance/reliability? Nevertheless, it seems to me that even a modest hard disc can outperform the 100MHz ethernet to which the server will be connected. All advice most welcome. -- Phil Driscoll

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RE: RAID Server
by Paul Munro 19 May '01

19 May '01

1GB certainly is a huge amount, and in terms of cost this could prove a bad business decision, let alone administration nightmare. That aside, this is your call. If you think the students/staff require on average around 1GB storage space, then obviously you are right in saying that a RAID server of some sort is required. I'm not sure that SCSI *is* the best choice, and there are now some excellent hardware based RAID cards that allow the use of IDE drives (Adaptec make a RAID solution for this). SCSI (especially 1TB worth!) would be *very* expensive, and though there are excellent technical reasons for still using SCSI in situations like this, the reasons themselves are becoming less imperative as IDE technology and throughput increases exponentially every year. Software RAID won't cut the chase in your situation, though a short test using it on a Linux server may tell otherwise, but will be expensive in time and resources. A hardware based solution in your case would be better and abstract the hardware/software for more redundancy. RAID 5 is another good choice, and although you'll lose a HDD for the extra security etc., it would be worth it if you are running such a huge storage space. Maybe you should consider a RAID server--though I don't think that the pricing would be in the same region as an Adaptec card and set of drives :-) I think you also mentioned the issue of concurrent connections? 100-150 isn't *that* bad, and I've worked on a school LAN where much more than that logged on at one time and the network didn't really seem to suffer much in the way of lag afterwards. The key is segmentation- and this is where switches come in. Make sure that you haven't placed *all* your machines on one segment and connected via a hub--probably (no- IS) a bad idea, especially because of those concurrent connections. Broadcasts shoot out in examples like this, and all sorts of bottlenecks creep out of the woodwork. If you are using DHCP, this becomes more of an issue- and again, segmenting your LAN with switches will keep traffic down and increase available bandwidth. Of course, as Michael Brown said, you could always make sure that students and staff log on to the LAN as soon as they enter the class...but I've tried that one, and some teachers just don't like that idea ;-) Good luck anyway!! Paul HNC, CCNA

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USB, IDE and linux
by Marcus Birkin 18 May '01

18 May '01

Ok, don't ask why but..... We have a Mac 7200/75 running SuSE 7.1, we wish to buy a PCI->USB card USB->IDE (e.g. http://www.addonics.com/product/usb.htm ) 40gb IDE drive can anybody recommend and advise me on the PCI->USB and the, USB->IDE and there use with Linux. Thanks Marcus Birkin

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] RAID server
by Azrael Angel Of Death 18 May '01

18 May '01

>Over the next month or two I need to set up a server for my old >secondary >school to provide user storage for all the pupils. >There are just over 800 kids at the school, so I guess a total of about > >1Tb of storage would be sensible. >1Gb per child does not seem overly generous to me. Reality check?? What kind of school is this? --Azrael _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] RAID server
by Grainge, Derek 18 May '01

18 May '01

> so 1Gb per child does not seem overly generous to me. Fair 'nuf gov. We never have enough disk space :-) > RAID is a must, but IDE gives us a lot more Mb for our money than SCSI, > but maybe at the cost of performance/reliability? IDE devices, being cheaper, are certainly slower, and in some cases less reliable. These drives are going to be hammered. IDE devices are designed for home machines and don't stand up to the continuous use they get in servers. If you want a Tbyte, I think RAID/SCSI is pretty essential. Some SCSI disks are identical to their IDE equivalents except for the interface, but many are built using better technology (and last longer). > Nevertheless, it seems to me that even a modest hard > disc can outperform the 100MHz ethernet to which the server will be connected. Assume nothing. A single IDE drive would be a bottleneck. It's to do with the head seek times while possibly hundreds of files are open simultaneously, not the tranfer rate. Plainly multiple drives allow the OS to thread accesses much more efficiently (this was always a big selling point for Novell servers which handle such matters particularly efficiently). Plainly money is an issue. Please feel free to laugh: I think a 10 Mb network is insufficient for a Windows stations doing logons and accessing files from a server. I ran a network which was originally set up this way and it was SLOW. I think you need a mix of 10/100 to the stations, depending on what they're loading, and therefore you certainly need a backbone which is faster. I think a single 100 Mb net card would be a big bottleneck. Ideally you need a 1 Gb backbone with switches taking you down onto 100 Mb local segments. The server gets connected directly using a 1 Gb card. Failing which, with a lot of fiddling, you can use 2 or more 100 Mb cards in the server. You can physically subnet, or use IP subnetting to divide traffic. You are talking about lots of traffic and to plan for less might be economical but a mistake. My experience is that schools hammer networks much harder than most businesses do - schools push the envelope much harder despite the lack of budget. Prices for this kit are Mega but no longer astronomical. -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of inappropriate attachments and certain obscenities. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. ********************************************************************************

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AS ICT
by Paul Taylor 18 May '01

18 May '01

Hi all: Has anyone out there taught mysql et al to A level students? Is it possible? I am about to teach my AS students their second ICT project and was hoping I could do something interesting on Linux rather than the usual Access stuff. Databases are not my forte and my students are struggling to get D grade projects in Excel so something very accessible (no pun intended) would be nice. Paul ptaylor(a)uklinux.net ------------------------------------------------------------ Free, BeOS-friendly email accounts: http://BeMail.org/ Free Peepshow - http://twinfusion.com/comic/peep/

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FW: [suse-linux-uk-schools] AS ICT
by Grainge, Derek 18 May '01

18 May '01

You don't say which platform your students are using. I'm assuming a Windows client talking to a Linux server? Or are you going to be Linux only? - in which case my comments below are irrelevant. Good things about using SQL: You can explain primary and foreign keys so much more effectively by demonstrating them. You can construct multi-table relational databases and play with views. Good things About Access: You can do the above, simply realising that a query is a view (effectively). I await flame from SQL purists. Access allows you to manage relationships graphically - as do some professional SQL implementations like Sybase. Therefore keys and integrity can be enforces just like in SQL. Using ODBC you can talk to an SQL database (most flavours of SQL are supported). If you are constructing SQL queries, you can switch to sql mode - and indeed you can write pure SQL if you wish instead of Access's "Query By Example". Bad things about SQL: You still need a front end, because half of a database project is going to be about the user interface. *** I would be interested in what people think is the best client interface to an SQL server *** I know there are many for both Linux and Windows platforms. I use both SQL and Access. On balance, and *for AS ICT project work*, I would use Access because it encompasses all of the requirements in one package. Educationally it's narrowing the focus, but it is a balance between getting good project grades and providing an idea of what goes on in industry (which generally is not Access). PS I do the AS course half-time over two years rather than full-time in one year - because I think it's easier to prepare students for practical work that way. We don't offer the A2. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Taylor [mailto:paul.taylor@bemail.org] Sent: 18 May 2001 08:46 To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] AS ICT Hi all: Has anyone out there taught mysql et al to A level students? Is it possible? I am about to teach my AS students their second ICT project and was hoping I could do something interesting on Linux rather than the usual Access stuff. Databases are not my forte and my students are struggling to get D grade projects in Excel so something very accessible (no pun intended) would be nice. Paul ptaylor(a)uklinux.net ------------------------------------------------------------ Free, BeOS-friendly email accounts: http://BeMail.org/ Free Peepshow - http://twinfusion.com/comic/peep/ -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of inappropriate attachments and certain obscenities. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. ********************************************************************************

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] AS ICT
by Grainge, Derek 18 May '01

18 May '01

> While on the general subject, I wonder if people have thought about > teaching python - its a wonderful language for getting started with. Hmmm ... I hear lots of arguments going on about c++ v. Java v. Python as starter languages. Actually no-one seems to have heard much about Logo for a long time - it has a lot of educational value despite the jokes made about Papert and all. This probably sounds like cold water, but it's really me expressing regret over the way education is going. I think there is little scope and certainly too little time to teach any programming language effectively within the context of an examinable course. The logic is that most students need to know nothing about languages, therefore all courses are about applications. The syllabuses for ICT make depressing reading. This is very short-sighted and is one reason (cost being the other) why many companies outsource their code develpment to places like India. There courses in their schools stick like a limpet to traditional Computer Science. -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of inappropriate attachments and certain obscenities. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. ********************************************************************************

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] AS ICT
by Azrael Angel Of Death 18 May '01

18 May '01

Information and Communication Technology _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Parlez-vous?
by Derek Harding 15 May '01

15 May '01

Hi folks, A little light humour:- http://linuxanjou.free.fr/ping.html or regular reading (but in French):- http://linuxanjou.free.fr both hosted by the Unviersite d'Angers (http://www.info.univ-angers.fr/alp/) -- Best wishes, Derek Harding, (BA MIAP) ICT & Network Manager, Warlingham School hardingd(a)warlingham.surrey.sch.uk

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] squid proxy help thanks
by sparkz 15 May '01

15 May '01

thanks to everyone for help. hmmm thought it might be to do with DNS. I have the machine set up as a DNS server but not a caching DNS server (because i never heard of one LOL) so if you know how to set one up or could point me in the right direction i would be gratefull. I've looked through all the config files but can't see any options that would change things. thanks sparkz

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] MIS, databases
by richard＠tortoise.demon.co.uk 14 May '01

14 May '01

On various dates various people said: > <mbrown(a)fensystems.co.uk> > PostgreSQL is probably a better choice ........... > <rjg(a)ateb.co.uk> > I'll second the choice of PostgreSQL and so on. Now, after all this praise, I installed PostgreSQL and started mucking around with it. I created a table, put data in it and even did a query! I can't figure out how to get an ODBC connection yet to my NT box and I can't find a download source for the mpsql (?) client to run on windows. I thought I might ask those knowledgeable folks on the mailing list. Nevertheless, I really thought I was going somewhere until I discover that PostgreSQL does not support foreign keys. I find this astonishing. Isn't this the whole point of databases? I use a tlkp to prefix lookup tables. If I create a (simplified) table of ethnic groups : CREATE TABLE tlkpEthnic ( ethnic_id int NOT NULL , ethnic_descriptionl varchar (50) NULL , CONSTRAINT pk_tlkpEthnic PRIMARY KEY CLUSTERED ( ethnic_id ) ) and then go on to create a (hugely simplified) table of pupils CREATE TABLE dbo.tblPupil ( pupil_id int IDENTITY (1, 1) NOT NULL , name_first varchar (50) NULL, name_second varchar (50) NULL , ethnic_id int NOT NULL, CONSTRAINT fk_tblPupil_ethnic FOREIGN KEY ( ethnic_id) REFERENCES dbo.tlkpEthnic (ethnic_id), ) I want to require the ethnic_id for every pupil to match an entry in tlkpEthnic. To this end I use REFERENCES. Seemingly PostgreSQL only lets you enforce this through triggers. So, you would have to write triggers for virtually everything. Not to go into preventing deletion from tlkpEthnic where those records are referenced by records in tblPupil. Obviously, PostgreSQL was written by people far more knowledgeable than me, so what am I missing here? Finally, > <alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk> > After a little reading and some downloading of software > I have a running PostgreSQL server,............. > and access to the PostgreSQL databases on the > server via PostODBC and Lotus Approach > from Windows systems. Alan, what extra did you download? Is there not everything I need on the SuSE cd to get ODBC going? regards Richard richard(a)tortoise.demon.co.uk

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] MIS, databases
by Phil Driscoll 14 May '01

14 May '01

>However, I wouldn't exclude the >possibility of writing special clients if functionality required >it (and I'd write them in Tcl/Tk, for portability). I would argue strongly that special clients should not be required or provided. Once you provide them, then there is a temptation to implement functionality in them that is not available in the web clients, and I believe that in this day and age there is very little that cannot be done with cleverly designed web pages and server side software. That said, I think this implementing such a system is an excellent idea. Does anyone on the list have a handle on the value for the average cost per school x total number of UK schools for current systems? Cheers -- Phil Driscoll Dial Solutions +44 (0)113 294 5112 http://www.dialsolutions.com http://www.dtonline.org

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] squid proxy help thanks
by Azrael Angel Of Death 14 May '01

14 May '01

>From: James & Cybèle <CJC(a)stonycobbles.freeserve.co.uk> >To: "Schools List" <suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com> >Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] squid proxy help thanks >Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 16:27:46 +0100 > >Thanks for all the help with my Squid Proxying problems. Without wishing to >start a debate (!) I have to admit to finding YAST/YAST2 the sort of thing >that a place in Seattle might have come up with. Maybe its because of the >problem of different distros of Linux but I've made most progress in linux >when I've altered files directly. I know aspects of SuseConfig can be >turned >off but...... That's funny.. because this morning I was going to ask if anyone knows of a Web Administration Tool for Squid... a la SWAT for Samba. Personally I can manage editing the files myself.. but there are others in the department with little Computer knowledge let alone Linux knowledge. The head of IT is considering a switch to Microsoft Proxy.. merely because it has better management features. Thanks... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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squid proxy help thanks
by James & Cybèle 14 May '01

14 May '01

Thanks for all the help with my Squid Proxying problems. Without wishing to start a debate (!) I have to admit to finding YAST/YAST2 the sort of thing that a place in Seattle might have come up with. Maybe its because of the problem of different distros of Linux but I've made most progress in linux when I've altered files directly. I know aspects of SuseConfig can be turned off but...... Anyway, as to the squid problem. Assuming I'm running Suse6.4 and my win98 machines just look at 192.168.1.2 port 3128 what do I actually need to do to the server to get it to be useful when offline? Thanks once again James Carter

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Squid proxying when off line
by Mr G M Locock 11 May '01

11 May '01

Hi all On Thu, 10 May, =?iso-8859-1?Q?James_&_Cyb=E8le?= wrote: > > Check the nameservers. Usually your system would point to the local proxy > machine as nameserver. If you have it set up with an external machine as > primary nameserver, (which is normal for an ordinary dial-up non-proxied > connection) then nobody on your network can find a web page (even in the > local cache) without a connection to the www! > > > Thanks for the advice. I thought, though, that pointing at my machine as > name server would give me all sorts of other things to set up which I > usually leasve to my ISP to work out? > It probably depends on which proxy software you are running; I can only speak from experience of Navaho, but literally all I had to do was point the local clients to the address of the local proxy server. Navaho automagically does whatever else is needed. The proxy server /does/ need to know the addresses of the external nameservers it is meant to look up, in just the same way as a stand-alone dial-up PC needs this information. This is what makes it a "proxy"... it does all the look-ups /on behalf of/ the clients. The client PCs don't know anything about the /real/ internet, all they need to know is the address of the local proxy box and the port numbers it listens out on. I daresay this is over-simplified, but it's how IUI. HTH Gary -- G M Locock, Network Manager Bablake Junior School, Coundon Road, Coventry, UK, CV1 4AU Tel: (+44) 24 7663 4052; Fax: (+44) 24 7663 3290 Web: http://www.bablakejs.co.uk Email: gml(a)bablakejs.co.uk

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Help please!
by Mr G M Locock 11 May '01

11 May '01

Hi all Many thanks for helping out with this one. In fact Dan hit the right solution; there's a file called .wm-something-or-other in the root of /root (and every other user) containing just the name of the configured desktop for that user. It was only necessary to resave it as an empty file to fix the problem, because the system now defaults to kde. I replied to Dan, but tend to forget that on this list, replies are emailed, and only go to the whole list if I remember to put the suse- address in. (Not that that is a bad thing, as it is quite a busy list as it is. Sorry to make it busier still!) It is remarkable how you can muck about with the interface like this in Linux, while the system goes on working underneath, completely unperturbed. On Thu, 10 May, Malcolm Herbert wrote: > hi Gary, > > one solution would be to delete the .kde and .gnome subdirectories from the > /root directory, i guess, start from fresh > > Malcolm > > On Wednesday 09 May 2001 19:42, you wrote: > > Many thanks to Dan, Malcolm, and Phil for your advice, but I'm > > still stuck in Gnome and feeling slightly foolish! (It is > > Gnome without a file manager too, for some reason, which is > > a pain) > > > > I have followed your advice, (looking at files in /etc/K11, > > and /etc/sysconfig ) > > but I think in each case I have only altered the system defaults > > which new users would get on first logging on. This isn't quite > > the problem I've got. > > > > The box is a server, so it doesn't actually have anybody else > > who can get to a desktop on it except me, as a couple of different > > usernames. > > > > It is user root which has somehow lost its KDE desktop. The KDE > > data still exists (I can start KFM manually for example, and > > it takes me to the last saved filer window). I just can't > > get it to go back to autostarting KDE from the 'startx' command. > > My other users are still OK; it is not a system-wide problem. best Gary -- G M Locock, Network Manager Bablake Junior School, Coundon Road, Coventry, UK, CV1 4AU Tel: (+44) 24 7663 4052; Fax: (+44) 24 7663 3290 Web: http://www.bablakejs.co.uk Email: gml(a)bablakejs.co.uk

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Squid proxying when off line
by Mr G M Locock 11 May '01

11 May '01

On Wed, 09 May, =?iso-8859-1?Q?James_&_Cyb=E8le?= wrote: > Another question...... > I know squid is running....it's the only route that the win98 machine have > and it seems to be proxying when connected because of the speed but when the > ISDN line isn't on it doesn;t send anything to the browser.. > > Ideas? Check the nameservers. Usually your system would point to the local proxy machine as nameserver. If you have it set up with an external machine as primary nameserver, (which is normal for an ordinary dial-up non-proxied connection) then nobody on your network can find a web page (even in the local cache) without a connection to the www! ?? Gary -- G M Locock, Network Manager Bablake Junior School, Coundon Road, Coventry, UK, CV1 4AU Tel: (+44) 24 7663 4052; Fax: (+44) 24 7663 3290 Web: http://www.bablakejs.co.uk Email: gml(a)bablakejs.co.uk

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a couple of easy ones? (log on scripts)
by James & Cybèle 11 May '01

11 May '01

Hi All Hopefully a couple of easy ones.... 1. When I restart the server (not unless I have to) I have to manaully do two things: firstly do route add default gw etc to let the network find the router and I have to mount all the CD images I have. Where do I put this info to boot automatically? 2. The school office has a small windows file and print sharing network and use modems to dial out to the net. Is it possible/easy/advisable to give them access through my ISDN router seeing as this is a prepaid 24/7 line. thanks as always James Carter South Lee School

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Squid proxying when off line
by James & Cybèle 09 May '01

09 May '01

Another question...... I know squid is running....it's the only route that the win98 machine have and it seems to be proxying when connected because of the speed but when the ISDN line isn't on it doesn;t send anything to the browser.. Ideas? James Carter

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Help please!
by Mr G M Locock 09 May '01

09 May '01

Many thanks to Dan, Malcolm, and Phil for your advice, but I'm still stuck in Gnome and feeling slightly foolish! (It is Gnome without a file manager too, for some reason, which is a pain) I have followed your advice, (looking at files in /etc/K11, and /etc/sysconfig ) but I think in each case I have only altered the system defaults which new users would get on first logging on. This isn't quite the problem I've got. The box is a server, so it doesn't actually have anybody else who can get to a desktop on it except me, as a couple of different usernames. It is user root which has somehow lost its KDE desktop. The KDE data still exists (I can start KFM manually for example, and it takes me to the last saved filer window). I just can't get it to go back to autostarting KDE from the 'startx' command. My other users are still OK; it is not a system-wide problem. I'm sure it is dead easy to fix, if only I knew where to look! On Tue, 08 May, Dan Kolb wrote: > > On Tuesday 08 May 2001 2:01 pm, Mr G M Locock wrote: > > I'm sure this is a stoopid one... > > > > In RedHat 6.2 I change to Gnome using the desktop switcher > > tool... don't like it, but the switcher won't return me to > > KDE. > > > > ISTR there is a file I must delete, but which one please?? > > Have a look in /etc/X11, and see if there's a file or directory called > xinitrc there. You'd have to modify that. Under Slackware, with XFree86 > 4.0.3, it's in the directory /etc/X11/xinitrc/, and xinitrc is linked to > xinitrc.kde (for me). > > > (It is the root user, if that helps) > > You do know you shouldn't be running as root unless you absolutely have to, > don't you? Yes... but being a server, most of the tasks require the root user to do them. Gary -- G M Locock, Network Manager Bablake Junior School, Coundon Road, Coventry, UK, CV1 4AU Tel: (+44) 24 7663 4052; Fax: (+44) 24 7663 3290 Web: http://www.bablakejs.co.uk Email: gml(a)bablakejs.co.uk

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Public Access / Linux Terminal Workshop
by Malcolm Herbert 09 May '01

09 May '01

hi all following on from the 'rather successful' workshops in Sandwell, there will be another two workshops at Bryngwyn School, Llanelli, details below. Due to the facilities being freely available etc, there will be no charge for this event, but again places will be limited. i am hoping that copies of the latest K12LTSP distribution, bootable network cards and new terminal hardware will also be available. if anyone else thinks they may have 6 or more people, (from the LEA, other schools etc) interested in looking at the solution or have a lab to convert/put back on the road, let me know, hopefully its turning into the beginnings of a European tour....!, well this is already the second country :-) regards Malcolm ------------------------------------ Malcolm Herbert Red Hat Europe t:+44 1483 734955 m:+44 7720 079845 ------------------------------------ Linux Terminal Server / Public Access Terminal Workshop 5th/6th June 2001 - Bryngwyn School, Llanelli, Carmarthenshire ---------------------------------------------------------- Introduction -------------- Red Hat, Sandwell LEA and Bryngwyn School have joined together to provide a workshop on developing low cost terminals, which can developed on a range of hardware. It can make the ideal lab or public access terminal and has the benefit of using open source applications. Overview -------------- This workshop presents an effective means of providing a thin client network solution for education and community network access. It can provide both fully functional desktop environments (incl. productivity tools, browsers, graphics and multimedia etc) and bespoke solutions, such as public access terminals providing using browser-based interfaces. The approach uses a thin client-server approach, where the terminals can use both legacy hardware (early Pentiums will work) or new hardware built specifically for the purpose, starting as low as £200. The workshop will look at both strategic and practical issues of designing and implementing terminal server solutions. It will also cover the issues of using open source applications and the benefits that they bring, including being free of licensing costs, having the freedom to develop applications, integrating with existing networks, applications and platforms and versatility to deploy something you want. There will be plenty of opportunity for discussion and networking, with a fairly informal atmosphere. There will be plenty of time to look at the practical issues involved, please feel free to bring some prospective client hardware (ie nearly anything, 'run wot u brung') with you. Agenda -------------- The workshop will be run on both days, 9.30am Registration and Coffee 10.00 Introduction: Linux, open source and how it can be used 10.30 Server: the K12LTSP distribution, hardware specifications 11.30 Coffee 11.45 Clients: new and legacy hardware, configuration and deployment 12.45pm Lunch 1.45 Configuring desktops, window managers for public, labs and office users 2.45 Discussion and future developments 3.30 Tea and Close Space is limited (we've already had considerable interest), priority will be given to early respondents. Links ------------------ Linux Terminal Server Project http://www.ltsp.org K12LTSP Project http://www.riverdale.k12.or.us/linux/k12ltsp.html Venue ------------------ 5th / 6th June Bryngwyn School Llanelli Carmarthenshire Travel Arrangements ------------------- Further details will be available soon Accomodation - Please contact Malcolm Herbert if you require assistance in finding accomodation. You can find a location map on http://www.streetmap.co.uk, postcode B69 4PJ Costs. ------------------- No costs. please confirm your attendence by email to :- Malcolm Herbert mherbert(a)redhat.com <cut> ========================================================= Linux / Public Access Terminals Workshop ---------------------------------------- Name: Organisation: Address: Post Code: Telephone: Mobile: email: Preferred Date: 5th June 6th June *please indicate ==========================================================

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Wales Education 2001: ICT Conference 24th - 25th May, Cardiff International Arena
by Alan Harris 09 May '01

09 May '01

Hi All, I enclose the booking form and seminar details for the Wales Education 2001 ICT Conference as forwarded to myself by our LEA. Sorry for if the document looks odd, I've had to change the format from .doc to .rtf! Further informtion is available from Educational Exhibitions Ltd (www.educational-exhibitions.com). This could be a valuable and very important opportunity to further Open Source in Education. If OSIE want to establish a presence then, providing our Headteacher is happy, I'll be there for both days. There are some 96 Exhibitors on the list but only two computer suppliers that I recognise - RM and Viglen. Opening hours are from 9.00 a.m. to 5.00 p.m. on the Thursday and 9.00 a.m. to 4.00 p.m. on the Friday. If nothing else we have an opportunity to demonstrate to various AM's, Government Offices etc that there is a world another World out there (apart from you know m$who!) and that people are using Open Source Software. Thoose of you who are interested in the Linux Terminal Server day at Bryngwyn School please note that the day has been cancelled because of this conference but alternative dates are being arranged with Malcolm Herbett. Further details will follow, either from myself or from Malcolm. Hope to see some of you there.... Alan ----------------------------------------------------- Alan Harris Network Manager Bryngwyn School Tel : 01554 750661 Fax : 01554 758255 E-mail: alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch ----------------------------------------------------- Notes: 1. The contents of this email may be snooped on by interested government parties for unknown purposes! Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000. 2. The opinions expressed in this email are personal and may not be shared by Bryngwyn School. -----------------------------------------------------

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Help please!
by Mr G M Locock 08 May '01

08 May '01

I'm sure this is a stoopid one... In RedHat 6.2 I change to Gnome using the desktop switcher tool... don't like it, but the switcher won't return me to KDE. ISTR there is a file I must delete, but which one please?? (It is the root user, if that helps) Gary -- G M Locock, Network Manager Bablake Junior School, Coundon Road, Coventry, UK, CV1 4AU Tel: (+44) 24 7663 4052; Fax: (+44) 24 7663 3290 Web: http://www.bablakejs.co.uk Email: gml(a)bablakejs.co.uk

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] MIS, databases - suggestions
by Grainge, Derek 08 May '01

08 May '01

At my school we have been looking at some 'professional' databases (i.e. cost a lot and don't provide half the functionality required.) If all we do is emulate the sorts of things SIMS does, we are going nowhere. Yes we can start producing ER diagrams but I don't think we have really identified requirements thoroughly enough. Here's one suggestion. I have plenty more. One of the major reasons I find current products deficient is the quality of reporting they allow. I would like to see: internal reports, used to collect marks, positions in class, effort and attainment grades, and free-text comments. external reports to parents which contain all of the above. These must be written by class teachers based on set lists, but Housemasters, tutors or the like must be able to pull up a collated report for any member of his house. We must have sufficient security that you can only see (or change) what you're meant to change. Teachers can change reports up to a report deadline; an admin can change a teacher's report; a housemaster can see appropriate reports for delected pupils; teachers can review old reports. Should I go on? We have been researching this so the discussion is VERY appropriate and I'd like to contribute either to a spec or to the ER development. -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of inappropriate attachments and certain obscenities. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. ********************************************************************************

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Browser Abilities - was: GovGateway
by Azrael Angel Of Death 08 May '01

08 May '01

>I gather you are stuffed, because Netscape doesn't do >the masquerading stuff like these cunning RISC OS >programmers have provided. ISTR Opera may, though. You might want to see http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46029 [RFE] Multiple user_agent prefs (for Mozilla) like in Opera. --Azrael _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] MIS, databases
by richard＠tortoise.demon.co.uk 08 May '01

08 May '01

> <mbrown(a)fensystems.co.uk> > Create a query that looks something like: > SELECT pupils.name, fsm_status(pupils.id, today), > fsm_status(pupils.id, today+1), ... Still thinking about that. Without actually posting table definition statements here, its hard to figure out whether this solution would be possible. Do you know of any (cross-platform and free, not asking a lot!) tools for producing ER diagrams so the discussion could get more definite? I have never used any such tool, other than whats built into Access, because I have never had to discuss overall database structure with anyone other than myself. <rjg(a)ateb.co.uk> earlier mentioned the DfEE 'Common Basic Data Set' , any design should be mindful of this, but interest in a successful design with running examples might extend beyond the UK. > <mbrown(a)fensystems.co.uk> > Procedure creation and trigger creation is separate - you create the > procedure first and then you can create a trigger that calls it if you > want. You don't have to use triggers - they just seem to me to be the > most obvious way to hook the procedures in, because you can then make > almost everything invisible to the database client, giving you a 'clean' > interface to the DB. > Can you call the procedures other than via a trigger? Also, what language would you write procedures in? Looking at the postgresql pages, which I referenced earlier, it seems quite a low level task, where you connect it so some other language of your choice, C being given there as an example. My C programming does not extend a great deal further than Hello World. The time it would take to be productive on a given system is important. I have to say that I have never written a line of Interbase procedure code either. Are there visual tools for interacting with a postgresql backend, again x platform? Interbase has several. Richard richard(a)tortoise.demon.co.uk

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scsi adaptec 1540cp
by agsb 06 May '01

06 May '01

right i have a prob... am using an old 166 with isa ne2000 nic isa graphics and isa adaptec1540cp scsi borad has 3 pci as well the scsi is in the first isa which i think is port 130h the linux disk 1 boots up but then goes into maual setup i tried auto loads modules and it found the ne2000 nic but thats all i cant get any further i tried load scsi modules and select adaptec 154x it then ask for parameters ....now what? what are the parameters where in the book does it show u about manual setup etc or an eg of the parmeter or if one of u guys could help greatly apprciated i have an idea for this machine i htink i m gonna try setting it up as a firwall and change the net card to a 10/100 as this would be better yes? thanks

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] MIS, databases
by Phil Driscoll 06 May '01

06 May '01

>Once you get into Java or JavaScript you start excluding quite a few >platforms. I appreciate this - that's why I would insist on all functionality being available even on something as primitive (or leading edge :)) as a WAP interface, but you cannot deny that drag and drop will speed up a number of operations, and the richer user interface should not be denied to the overwhelming majority of users who will have access to a modern browser. Cheers -- Phil Driscoll Dial Solutions +44 (0)113 294 5112 http://www.dialsolutions.com http://www.dtonline.org

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] MIS, databases
by Phil Driscoll 06 May '01

06 May '01

I'd be interested to see the category of problem that would be difficult without stored procedures (not that I'm an expert on them, but I've never yet been in a situation where I haven't been able to do what I need for lack of them. >If the project was conducted in public, authors of the database >structure would have no control over what clients others may or >may not write. I think that if the project were to be well designed, I would hope that there would be no need whatever for anyone to even consider writing a client that provided any functionality beyond that deliverable in a browser. If someone felt the need to do that, then the design is wrong. Cheers -- Phil Driscoll Dial Solutions +44 (0)113 294 5112 http://www.dialsolutions.com http://www.dtonline.org

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] re: GovGateway
by Mr G M Locock 04 May '01

04 May '01

On Tue, 01 May, suse(???)... "mike" on the sig...wrote: > Dear all > I almost works 100% from an Acorn !Fresco browser. It /does/ work 100% in Acorn !Oregano. Just make sure you set IE5 in the "Who am I" box on Choices>Misc. If (like me) you jib at making MSIE's market share look even bigger than it is, it doesn't even need to be a permanent "saved" change. Just click "set" and reload the page. > It just stops on the javascript. A well known weakness of !Fresco. !Fresco is dead. All RISC OS users ought to get Oregano or WebsterXL. > Well I certainly fooled the dear old Gov ! :-) It shows how INCOMPETENT their web design contractors are, if anyone takes all that guff they spout about security (on the "unsupported browser" page) remotely seriously. > When I get my SuSe linux on line then I must try it again. I gather you are stuffed, because Netscape doesn't do the masquerading stuff like these cunning RISC OS programmers have provided. ISTR Opera may, though. Getting round this idiot site is not the point of course. In fact I'm not sure that every contributor has picked up on the point, because of the slightly oblique nature of the original posting. The Govt has no right at all to commission a site with these arbitrary preferential settings in the first place. It contravenes their own "open access" guidelines AFAICR (don't remember where I read it, to check). They have paid loads of your money out to a contractor for an incompetent job which discriminates against European browsers and platforms, and still isn't secure by the feeble standards they have set for themselves! Opera? Symbian? Open Source?(I know, not all European); not to mention British RISC OS and the Bush Internet TVs. Please nag your MP about it; better still, nag a newspaper. Don't let the fact that the site is a crashing bore put you off BTW. ATM you can only do registration for on-line Tax Returns from it (LOL)! It could be the thin end of yet another wedge. Gary -- G M Locock, Network Manager Bablake Junior School, Coundon Road, Coventry, UK, CV1 4AU Tel: (+44) 24 7663 4052; Fax: (+44) 24 7663 3290 Web: http://www.bablakejs.co.uk Email: gml(a)bablakejs.co.uk

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