October 2001 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Meeting yesterday and welcome to new members of the list
by Philip Hands 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Roger Whittaker <roger(a)suse-linux.co.uk> writes: > I've just subscribed various people to the list - please post a > message to say hello and introduce yourselves. Hi, If you were at the meeting, I was wearing a Debian t-shirt (with a red swirl logo on it) --- there's a photo at the top of this article, where I'm wearing similar stuff (except for the penguin ;-) http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/articles/issue6/lu6-Editorial-A_patently_bad_ide… I'm a Debian GNU/Linux developer, and run the UK Debian mirror, and am responsible for producing the Debian official CD images: http://www.uk.debian.org/ http://cdimage.debian.org/ I have only a peripheral interest in educational matters, in that I've been frustrated in the past in my efforts to provide free computers (which were otherwise destined for a skip), but I can certainly contribute on a technical side, and having been involved in Debian (which is completely voluntary, like OSIE is expected to be) since 1996 I may be able to make some suggestions about how to ``organise'' such a thing. For those of you who've not come across Debian before, we're a world-wide voluntary organisation (read, chaotic jumble of mailing lists) that puts together a Linux distribution (and soon a HURD distribution) and gives it away. Debian doesn't pay people to do this, and doesn't sell what it produces, and in most legal senses doesn't really exist (i.e. the machines in the mirror network mostly belong to people like me, rather than to Debian, and the bandwidth is donated rather than paid for). This probably gives a pretty good feel for what Debian is all about: http://www.uk.debian.org/social_contract which you will notice leads into the The Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG), which is where the Open Source Definition came from. My internet machine, that hosts the Debian UK mirror, may be of use to OSIE, since it has about 30GB of spare disk, and a 20Mbit/s connection at a well connected ISP. This machine could act as either a primary host or mirror site for the web site, and could do DNS secondarying etc. as well. Something I'd be interested in working on (although perhaps a SuSE list is not the right place to spend too much time discussing this ;-) would be producing Debian CD images, tuned to the needs of educational users. Debian has accumulated some funds in the UK, and have been looking for a worthwhile cause to spend them on (we never really need to pay for anything that actually makes Debian work, so don't have much use for money), so we could probably afford to have a few thousand CDs pressed, and send them out to schools that are interested. Cheers, Phil. -- Say no to software patents! http://petition.eurolinux.org/ Philip Hands. +44 (0)20 7744 6244 philip.hands(a)uk.alcove.com Alcove UK --- Liberating Software --- http://www.alcove.com/ http://www.hands.com/ phil(a)hands.com http://www.uk.debian.org/

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Health Service MS deal
by Kate Hanaghan 15 Nov '01

15 Nov '01

my understanding is that because this was not a new contract - it was basically the re-wording and consiladation of many existing contracts - it didn't have to go to tender. Kate Hanaghan Silicon Media Group +44 207 761 8219 -----Original Message----- From: Mark Evans [mailto:mpe@st-peters-high.devon.sch.uk] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 4:23 PM To: Robb Bloomfield Cc: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Health Service MS deal > Is it just me, or is this turning into an anti MS list? If the NHS was > spending this cash to implement Solaris with Oracle db's then would you kick > up such a fuss? I honestly think not.... The difference is that Sun is not a monopoly, nor have they been found guilty (more than once) of breaking the law. The simple fact is that Microsoft is a quite nasty organisation, who at some time in the past appear to have become something more akin to gangsters and terrorists than an honest business. You also appear to be missing the point that tendering rules may well have been ignored or a tender may have been put together in such a way as to exclude all bar one supplier. -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

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Linux in Schools Workshop
by SILCOATSIT＠aol.com 03 Nov '01

03 Nov '01

Hi everybody We are running a workshop on using Linux at Silcoates School, Wakefield West Yorks. On 2nd of November and still have a few places left, if anybody is interested. The day is aimed mainly at people who are thinking about deploying Linux in schools and want to see it in action with maybe a short session on LTSP and the new StarOffice 6 depending on demand. Below is the text of a letter we sent to Independant Schools in the north of England. So if anyone is interested please get in touch. John WIlson Using Linux and other open source programs in schools For two years Silcoates has been running its teaching network entirely on Linux servers. The system is reliable, versatile, and powerful and has proved its worth in that period. We are now offering a one day introductory course on the use of Open Source software in place of proprietary commercial systems, open to people from any sector of education. Here is a chance to acquire first hand knowledge of open source systems within a working school environment. You will be given the opportunity to share what we have learned about Linux in practice and try our systems out for yourself. The course will pre-suppose no specialised technical knowledge, but anyone who wishes will be able to discuss technical issues with those responsible for the system. We will be focussing on Linux as a server platform (using Windows 98 clients), but we will also be offering a chance to try Open Source applications software in the form of Star Office (which can run on Linux clients as well as Windows machines). Depending on the response to this initial venture, we hope to offer more detailed courses in the near future tailored to the specific needs and requirements of those interested in moving their own installations to Linux. There are further details of the use of Open Source software at Silcoates, giving some idea of the areas we will be covering, at http://linux.lexilog.org.uk/ The course will take place on Friday, 2nd November and will start at 10am. Lunch will be provided. If you wish to attend, please fill in the form below and send to Les Brown, Silcoates School, Wrenthorpe, Wakefield WF2 OPD, enclosing £15 per person to cover costs and lunch.

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Techies
by Chris Puttick 03 Nov '01

03 Nov '01

All good reasons, but... I'm on considerably more than that, but I manage a team of 8, including developers (Delphi, SQL, PHP/DHTML), and provide support to 2500 users directly and 10,000 indirectly over 40 sites. I'm project managing a team to develop a open source school/LEA ERP system (so much more than SIMS...) in partnership with a private company. I also take care of a lot of ICT purchasing decisions - well over £0.5 million in 18 months. The team locally support 250 PCs and 200 laptops and remotely another 200 PCs and 25 laptops. In addition there are 11 servers locally and 4 remote. There is something on the order of 100 different applications, running on 8 operating systems (a combination which would never be allowed in an enterprise). There is a layer 3 switched network (about 600 ports) with gigabit fibre backbone mixed with wireless. We use enterprise level software and hardware to maintain, manage and secure the systems, for example Fluke Network Inspector/Fluke DSP2000SR, Symantec Ghost Enterprise, Norton AV Corporate, Borderware Firewall, Veritas Backup Exec, etc. The point of this mini-CV? Commercially, my experience/skillset is worth £40k+ even in the local government sector, but schools in their current mindset could never pay a non-teacher that sort of money, or anything close. Their unwillingness to pay a non-teacher more than a teacher, coupled with the lack of professional courtesy given by most teachers to other professionals in schools, leads me along with countless other school IT staff to the verge of leaving. If the team here all gave their contractual 30 day notice and moved on to better-paid, better valued, positions, the associated schools would be stuffed. Without the type of handover you would expect in the commercial sector, a new team would be at a complete standstill for 3 months. A new team made up of the people who are likely to respond to an advert for a position at £12k would probably be at a total loss to even maintain the network. A team of people recruited at more realistic salary levels, with appropriate commercial experience would almost certainly not cope with (a) the lack of respect, (b) the lack of knowledgeable users (c) the numbers of users per PC and (d) the number of users trying to circumvent security measures and vandalise equipment. Present company excepted, there are very few experienced and skilled IT professionals in schools, but a large number in industry who cut their teeth (read "broke stuff") in schools before moving on to industry, leaving patched together undocumented systems to be rebroken by the new recruits. School ICT systems cannot become truly better unless developed by knowledgeable people working to a strategy developed by the knowledgeable people in consultation with the teaching staff over long periods of time. Refusing to consider that IT professionals need to be paid reasonably if they are to stay long enough for strategies to be developed, and also treated as the professionals they are (or should be), will result in much money being wasted over and over again. Our money. Commercially I was always against out-sourcing. In education, maybe an out-sourced education ICT support service is the only way. Any takers? Chris Puttick IT Manager Central Manchester City Learning Centre @ Trinity 0161 212 1972/70 -----Original Message----- From: Robb Bloomfield To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Sent: 10/30/01 11:55 AM Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Techies > Bear in mind that this is a private school - in LEA controlled schools > you'd be lucky to get 10K for a part time, term time only position, > probably requiring you to do much of that work, manage the entire > network and run the MIS system! Just over actually, I'm on £12,000 for 42 weeks. And yes, I do it all (bar SIMS)... > So, I wonder why we do it? Well, it's experience, it pays the rent, and it was an ideal job for a school leaver, who'd already helped run the network as a student.... so a big thanks to the RLS. Robb

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Network Card for thin clients?
by Paul Munro 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

Anyone here know which network card would be best used to try out thin client networking on my home LAN running from (probably) an old P90 or similar, around 16-32MB RAM? What other software do I need to get this to run? Thanks! Paul

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Linux in Schools
by Michael Treacy 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

Here are a few links that I have: 1. http://www.slip.net/~brk/linuxedpp.htm 2. http://www.thestuph.com/litc/resources.html 3. http://www.riverdale.k12.or.us/linux/ 4. http://www.seul.org/edu/links.html I had another good one on Linux Software, but I can't find it at the mo. Mike -- http://www.iol.ie

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Techies
by Edgehill e-mail service 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

---------- .From: Robb Bloomfield <rbloomfield(a)royallatin.schoolzone.co.uk> .To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com .Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Techies .Date: 30 October 2001 11:55 . .> Bear in mind that this is a private school - in LEA controlled schools .> you'd be lucky to get 10K for a part time, term time only position, .> probably requiring you to do much of that work, manage the entire .> network and run the MIS system! . .Just over actually, I'm on £12,000 for 42 weeks. And yes, I do it all (bar .SIMS)... . I get an allowance for teaching a couple of (A-level) classes and 6 weeks (paid) leave. I do the whole lot otherwise, and am ably assisted by a small number of pupils destined fot the industry. .> So, I wonder why we do it? .Well, it's experience, it pays the rent, and it was an ideal job for a .school leaver, who'd already helped run the network as a student.... so a .big thanks to the RLS. In my case, I wanted to move to the West Couuntry, and was willing to accept a (66%) cut in pay to do it. After 20+ years in the computer industry, the other rats had begun to look like usable protein! <g> Apart from that, I get to play with computers all day! Regards, Paul Ellison .Robb

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Techies
by Michael Treacy 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

Hi, Over here in Ireland, we don't HAVE the luxury of Technicians at all!!! I have a "post of reponsibilty" in my school which makes me head of I.T. and also a techie of sorts. For this, I have to make sure that both the admin network and student network stay up and running, fix dodgy pc's (we have a contract with a company for this, but they're not always available when you need them "yesterday!"). I've also got the job of looking after the MIS system that the admin and management use. I also have to make sure things work for after-school groups that use our facilities - Adult Education and also Active Retirement Group. Plus tidy up after them when they "mess" with the machines. And all this for something like £2500 a year! Ok, it's on top of a teachers salary, but I don't get any time given to me for this job, so it's after-school, between classes and lunch times too. Mike --- There are two major products to come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. -- http://www.iol.ie

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Techies
by Robb Bloomfield 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

> Bear in mind that this is a private school - in LEA controlled schools > you'd be lucky to get 10K for a part time, term time only position, > probably requiring you to do much of that work, manage the entire > network and run the MIS system! Just over actually, I'm on £12,000 for 42 weeks. And yes, I do it all (bar SIMS)... > So, I wonder why we do it? Well, it's experience, it pays the rent, and it was an ideal job for a school leaver, who'd already helped run the network as a student.... so a big thanks to the RLS. Robb

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Techies
by Simon Davies 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

Problem being though in areas like Carmarthenshire or Pembrokeshire 10-16k is about average if not above average. Pembs council last year were looking for a part time IT bod to work 16 hours a week for 5.5k The job was taken. The average wage in these parts is about 120 squid. I totally agree about all industries forgetting to reward their support staff...... ---------------------------------- Simon Davies System Manager Queen Elizabeth Cambria School Tel : 01267 236451 Fax : 01267 238224 http://www.satproj.org.uk/~cambria ---------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Alan Harris [mailto:alanh@bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk] Sent: 30 October 2001 11:20 To: Azrael AoD Cc: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Technician needed Hi All, Welcome to the wonderful world of education! Bear in mind that this is a private school - in LEA controlled schools you'd be lucky to get 10K for a part time, term time only position, probably requiring you to do much of that work, manage the entire network and run the MIS system! Unfortunately, The government is more interested in pandering to (IMHO whinging) teachers problems / wages than that of support and admin staff - this may sound sexist but if it was not for young/middle aged mothers wanting to get back into the world of work after having children then the countries education system would fall apart - also, bear in mind that most of these would be paid less than 10K p.a. and unable to claim benefit during the holiday periods. In all probability a schools entire support and admin department probably earns less in a year than your average Headteacher and two deputies..... So, I wonder why we do it? Alan ---------------------------------- Simon Davies System Manager Queen Elizabeth Cambria School Tel : 01267 236451 Fax : 01267 238224 http://www.satproj.org.uk/~cambria ----------------------------------

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Technician needed
by Azrael AoD 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

This gave us all a jolly laugh. All of those requirements and yet only offering £10-16K .. is this serious? I know someone with a similar job.. and he earns twice as much.. (while not having quite so broad a job description) ..in addition to accomodation/food etc at the school (which is also residential). -- Azrael ("\''/").___..--'''"-._ `0_ O ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' .' ((i).-'' ((i).' (((.-' Of all God's creatures there is only one that cannot be made the slave of the lash. That one is the cat. If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. ICQ#52944566 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: technician needed
by Paul Munro 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

Errrrmm...well, good luck! I too know MCSEs that wouldn't even get out of bed for that :-O Especially given the job description. Maybe you need to have a word with the boss and get a more realistic wage structure going? I could do it all, though I'm an CCNA working towards a CCNP and have an HND in Network Support, Diploma in PC Repair...except Perl maybe...but I presently work in a similar position for over 25k. Good luck anyway! Paul

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Samba and passwd
by Marcus Birkin 29 Oct '01

29 Oct '01

Hi Is it posible for samba 2.2.2 to get it's passwords from the builit linux passwords (eg /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow) and not it's own smbpasswd? Thanks Marcus Birkin

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Technician needed
by Christopher Dawkins 29 Oct '01

29 Oct '01

We need, from January, a new computer technician here. The job description for last year's appointment on http://www.felsted.org/vacancies/ict.htm remain valid, except that it mentions "two technicians" and the figure is currently three or four, largely due to the need to support an increasing number of laptops. The post could be residential, and there are no age or gender restrictions. -- Christopher Dawkins, Felsted School, Dunmow, Essex CM6 3JG 01371-820527 or 07798 636725 cchd(a)felsted.essex.sch.uk

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] "strategic comparison"
by Robb Bloomfield 25 Oct '01

25 Oct '01

I read this and thought it was very poorly written and also quite unfair in some areas. The windows solution could have been done far, far cheaper than what was suggested there, in fact the student system's price was completely ludicrous. I also think there was a lot more bias towards Unix, for example, the choice of thin client like workstations wasn't even attempted using NT Terminal server, and therefore it wasn't really a srict comparison. Regards, Robb Bloomfield

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Re: Health Service MS deal
by Richard Ibbotson 24 Oct '01

24 Oct '01

Hi > Not sure of the exact law, but its the one that requires all > purchases over 150,000 pounds sterling (200,000 ECU?) to be > advertised in the European journal. Something more exact would help a lot. How about references to EU law .. time and dates .. etc ? Or ... which journal exactly should it have been published in ... or .... is this exactly a new purchase or is it *thought* by someone to be new or a re-order ? This is the kind of question that I'm being asked and may lead to a conclusion of some sort. Thank you -- Richard

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Re: Health Service MS deal
by Richard Ibbotson 24 Oct '01

24 Oct '01

Dear All > I know several people who have all got the same reply. I doubt they > will ignore it entirely particularly if there are a lot of > complaints. Get as many people as you can to E-mail them. It just > might be difficult to do something in this particular instance. > However, we should be making it less easy to cement a monopoly that > is against the adoption of other systems so a few minutes to send > an E-mail is worth a go. Also try > > markt-info(a)cec.eu.int Had some e-mail back from this address. They want to know the exact details of the contract where it was entered into and what are the grounds for not believing that it was not advertised in the official Journal and what EU law was not complied with? Any answers to this ? Thanks -- Richard

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Small Project Starter Suggestions
by Glenn Cameron 24 Oct '01

24 Oct '01

"Giles Nunn" <giles(a)satproj.org.uk> wrote: > What sort of hardware spec are your client machines - esp RAM > and processor? They are Pentium 166 with 64Mb RAM. The server is a P133 with 96Mb of RAM so isn't terribly powerful. I guess the server based install will be best bet, stick a DVD drive in there and should be able to do everything. "Robert J Gautier" <rjg(a)ateb.co.uk> wrote: > SystemImager is very good at building and maintaining lots of identical > machines -- IMHO it solves a lot more of the problem than KickStart. > See: http://systemimager.org/ That sounds interesting, I'll have to give that a whirl. Okay, so I think my first step should be to install Linux on the old server, then try and set up a workstation I guess (to create an image). Any suggestions on data logging software? Browsing should be fulfilled by Netscape - can't see the teachers and kids going for lynx so some kind of desktop probably needed, any recommendations on that front for an easy life? -- Glenn Cameron King Henry VIII School, Coventry

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Small Project Starter Suggestions
by Glenn Cameron 24 Oct '01

24 Oct '01

I've got an old server and some machines not in use that could be useful for data-logging and internet access in a science lab. The machines don't have CD-ROMs so I'm thinking I either end up sticking a cd-rom in each machine to build it, or get the workstations to act as dumb terminals connect to the server - I have a 100mb switch and the machines have Intel pro cards in so should be acceptable speed. Any pointers on a good way to go forward, what to read and where to start? -- Glenn Cameron King Henry VIII School, Coventry

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Small Project Starter Suggestions
by Glenn Cameron 24 Oct '01

24 Oct '01

"Chris Howells" <chrish(a)gmx.co.uk> wrote: > On Tuesday 23 Oct 2001 19:20, Glenn Cameron wrote: > > I've got an old server and some machines not in use that could be useful > > for data-logging and internet access in a science lab. The machines don't > > have CD-ROMs so I'm thinking I either end up sticking a cd-rom in each > > machine to build it, or get the workstations to act as dumb terminals > > connect to the server - I have a 100mb switch and the machines have Intel > > pro cards in so should be acceptable speed. Any pointers on a good way to > > go forward, what to read and where to start? > > I don't 100% understand what you want to do with them. If it's just simple > 'net access, and perhaps word processing/whatever, I'd do an install over the > network, and just use them as standalone machines, although of course going > over the LAN for 'net access. OK, was wondering whether to go for a thin client structure but I guess we'd need to beef up the server quite a lot to make that viable. So I guess what I'd just like some pointers/advice on is how best to get started. Presumably install SuSE on the server, probably can manage that easy enough, but the issue then is how to set-up the workstations in a sensible way, in terms of installing the OS and the configuration. Is it a case of booting from a floppy and installing by nfs presumably, and then configuring each one individually or is there a better way to manage it all? Sorry, if this all sounds a bit dim to everyone but although I use linux every day for e-mail and web services, I just don't have the experience on the desktop level so just need some pointers. -- Glenn Cameron King Henry VIII School, Coventry

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Cygwin
by Alan Davies 23 Oct '01

23 Oct '01

OK I installed Cywin on a PC (Win2000) - and I installed the XFree86 and..... it works! Well - up to point anyhow. I can't persuade the local 'X' environment to accept connections from our Linux Box - or at least, not except for a round about route. Clearly I don't understand something. I start up Cygwin and do XWin and hey presto up pops an X window. I can connect locally to this in that I can run twm locally and within it I can run local apps like xeyes, xcalc, etc which are supplied with the Cygwin environment. However if I try xhost <linux IP box address> or even xhost + which I thought would allow all X connections it replies that it cannot open "". What does "" refer to and where should it be set? I also tried a Win98 installation but it cannot open/find the font "default" which seems rather strange. Anyone able to point me in the right direction? -- Alan Davies Head of Computing Birkenhead School

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Printing under Linux
by Paul Sutton 23 Oct '01

23 Oct '01

Anyone interested in setting up printing or a print server under Linux the following site looks interesting you can also check out the current ed of Linux magazine for more info on Turbo print. http://www.turboprint.de/ This is not free software, well you can down load a copy but it puts their logo on the printout, free for personal use, however the price is reasonable, and will help with further development, not sure if there are special deals for education.

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Print server?
by Dave Williams 21 Oct '01

21 Oct '01

Hi all I want to replace about 5 W95 machines which act as print servers to rooms of mixed clients (Acorn/Windows). I want the Linux replacements to provide the same services (without the instability) ie. to show the print jobs in the queue and allow the cancellation of print jobs by simple means. I'm assuming the clients will connect via Samba. Any suggestions? Dave Williams

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Health Service MS deal
by Ian Lynch 20 Oct '01

20 Oct '01

On radio 4 last night I caught a brief announcement that the Government are doing a block deal with MS of licenses for the NHS for 70m (per year?). If this is the case and they start doing this in the rest of the public sector, it will kill all competition because to the users in the service the software is then effectively free. Under EU law, deals bigger than 150k gbp have to be tendered properly and advertised in the EU journal. If this did not occur, the Government are breaking the law. If the argument is that there is only one reasonable source of supply, they are then dealing with an unregulated monopoly. If you believe as I do that this is anti-competitive practice and effectively forms a cartel between the Government and Microsoft, contact the office of fair trading. The E-mail address is enquiries.competitionact(a)oft.gov.uk Incidentally the Governement probably aren't aware that they are paying Microsoft more for their annual license for the NHS than Sun paid for the whole of Star Corp. -- IanL

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Laptops for all / half term
by Edgehill e-mail service 19 Oct '01

19 Oct '01

Just to let anyone wanting the report (or an e-mail argument on the benefits of e-Education) ... I'm being allowed out for half-term, so I won't be able to reply for the next week, but I'll answer as soon as I get back. Regards, Paul Ellison ICT Manager Edgehill College Bideford -------------------------------------------------------------- Legal Advisory: Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000. --------------------------------------------- You are warned that all electronic communications are subject to interception for regulatory, quality control and crime detection purposes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edgehill IT Department Email Service. Please check sender's address from body of Message for return address. Find us at: www.edgecoll.clara.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all
by Edgehill e-mail service 19 Oct '01

19 Oct '01

Not wireless - we don't accept the viability of wireless LAN in our environment yet - the technology is uncertain in our building complex, mainly due to architectire. (Darned new-fangled inventions, anyway, what's wrong with a good-ol' semaphor LAN? ;) Seriously, we are currently looking at conventional hub/router wired LAN over CAT5 tp. The technology is reliable, well understood and stable, and allows partially wired sections of the school to exist (much of our power circuit is too ancient to support much in the way of load without rewiring). It also ensures that covert use can be checked. Full network implementation would only (initially) cover the science labs, Humanities (new building), the library and the staff-room. The remainder of the school would only have a limited number of network (and power) outlets per room. Regards, Paul ---------- > From: Chris Puttick <chris(a)centralmanclc.com> > To: 'Edgehill e-mail service ' <edgehillit(a)edgecoll.clara.net> > Subject: RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all > Date: 19 October 2001 11:21 > Leaving you with just the wireless lan to implement... -----Original Message----- From: Edgehill e-mail service To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Sent: 10/19/01 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all GCSE and 6th form only - about 100-150 pupils and 50 staff - we were looking at about 20 spares (using the 10% rule & given the usual turn-around on repairs) - and possibly hot spares for HDD and display. The lossage through theft/damage was the main sticking point, and was the reason for not going with leased systems - staff/parental insurance would cover systems owned outright more reliably than most leasing companies who are geared for business users, not students! The question is, however, becoming academic (pun intended), since many of our students are acquiring laptops of their own. Almost all of our boarders have brought computers with them from home. ---------- From: Chris Puttick <chris(a)centralmanclc.com> To: 'Edgehill e-mail service ' <edgehillit(a)edgecoll.clara.net> Subject: RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all Date: 18 October 2001 10:42 To give you some figures, we had 5 spares to cover 80 teacher laptops. This was at the end of June. We currently have none. 1 was assigned to a member of staff not originally intended to have a laptop (the chaplain...), 1 was stolen, 2 have suffered impact damage to the screens and 1 is with the repair company. How many students would it be? -----Original Message----- From: Edgehill e-mail service To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Sent: 10/18/01 8:17 AM Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all This was our predicted nightmare - I think that the Head and I were agreed on 4x2 clue sticks (with optional nails) for general support issues <wry grin> Our idea was to have a small stock of hot spares, and to negotiate a central service contract for the hardware. By restricting the range of systems used, it would be possible to simply ghost an OS onto machines with a user-installation problem, and to loan a machine against physical damage. Pupils' systems would probably be locked down to prevent installation of unacceptable software, and to restrict tinkering with vital system settings. (Our network systems restore the system settings at every log-on, so probably something similar.) Regards, Paul (I have replied offlist with a copy of the report). ---------- From: Chris Puttick <chris(a)centralmanclc.com> To: 'Edgehill e-mail service ' <edgehillit(a)edgecoll.clara.net> Subject: RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all Date: 17 October 2001 15:35 I'd be very interested - we've just rolled out laptops to all the staff and it is an absolute nightmare to support. How would you deal with supporting students? -----Original Message----- From: Edgehill e-mail service To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Sent: 10/17/01 9:12 AM Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all The bottom line: I came down firmly on the side of "Great idea, But..." There are a number of issues to be dealt with when (if) the project goes ahead, but planning over a year ahead is vital. A straw-poll of a few interested parents and suppliers suggested that leased systems were the less popular option, and wholly-owned by the pupils was the best option. If anyone wants to see a copy of the report (typos and all), please request offlist. I can send as: Winword'97; RTF; (broken) HTML. Regards, Paul Ellison <SysAdm(a)edgecoll.clara.net> ---------- > From: Terry Cefai <terryc(a)stjamesthegreat.org> > To: SysAdm(a)edgecoll.clara.net > Subject: laptops for all > Date: 15 October 2001 17:05 > > Back in February you were asking for info re: laptops for all either wholy > owned or leased in order to present a paper to yur Head............how did > it go? > any interesting responses you could forward?? > > Terry > > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all
by Edgehill e-mail service 19 Oct '01

19 Oct '01

GCSE and 6th form only - about 100-150 pupils and 50 staff - we were looking at about 20 spares (using the 10% rule & given the usual turn-around on repairs) - and possibly hot spares for HDD and display. The lossage through theft/damage was the main sticking point, and was the reason for not going with leased systems - staff/parental insurance would cover systems owned outright more reliably than most leasing companies who are geared for business users, not students! The question is, however, becoming academic (pun intended), since many of our students are acquiring laptops of their own. Almost all of our boarders have brought computers with them from home. ---------- From: Chris Puttick <chris(a)centralmanclc.com> To: 'Edgehill e-mail service ' <edgehillit(a)edgecoll.clara.net> Subject: RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all Date: 18 October 2001 10:42 To give you some figures, we had 5 spares to cover 80 teacher laptops. This was at the end of June. We currently have none. 1 was assigned to a member of staff not originally intended to have a laptop (the chaplain...), 1 was stolen, 2 have suffered impact damage to the screens and 1 is with the repair company. How many students would it be? -----Original Message----- From: Edgehill e-mail service To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Sent: 10/18/01 8:17 AM Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all This was our predicted nightmare - I think that the Head and I were agreed on 4x2 clue sticks (with optional nails) for general support issues <wry grin> Our idea was to have a small stock of hot spares, and to negotiate a central service contract for the hardware. By restricting the range of systems used, it would be possible to simply ghost an OS onto machines with a user-installation problem, and to loan a machine against physical damage. Pupils' systems would probably be locked down to prevent installation of unacceptable software, and to restrict tinkering with vital system settings. (Our network systems restore the system settings at every log-on, so probably something similar.) Regards, Paul (I have replied offlist with a copy of the report). ---------- From: Chris Puttick <chris(a)centralmanclc.com> To: 'Edgehill e-mail service ' <edgehillit(a)edgecoll.clara.net> Subject: RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all Date: 17 October 2001 15:35 I'd be very interested - we've just rolled out laptops to all the staff and it is an absolute nightmare to support. How would you deal with supporting students? -----Original Message----- From: Edgehill e-mail service To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Sent: 10/17/01 9:12 AM Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all The bottom line: I came down firmly on the side of "Great idea, But..." There are a number of issues to be dealt with when (if) the project goes ahead, but planning over a year ahead is vital. A straw-poll of a few interested parents and suppliers suggested that leased systems were the less popular option, and wholly-owned by the pupils was the best option. If anyone wants to see a copy of the report (typos and all), please request offlist. I can send as: Winword'97; RTF; (broken) HTML. Regards, Paul Ellison <SysAdm(a)edgecoll.clara.net> ---------- > From: Terry Cefai <terryc(a)stjamesthegreat.org> > To: SysAdm(a)edgecoll.clara.net > Subject: laptops for all > Date: 15 October 2001 17:05 > > Back in February you were asking for info re: laptops for all either wholy > owned or leased in order to present a paper to yur Head............how did > it go? > any interesting responses you could forward?? > > Terry > > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

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Caching web sites
by Colin Davies 18 Oct '01

18 Oct '01

Is there any good software which will allow us to download and retain web sites (links and all) so that they are available across a network via our intranet. Several good lessons have been ruined by either the site or the Internet being unavailable. Some sites would be held semi permanent, others held for a few days. We are using Suse 7.0/Samba for network software and Smoothwall to connect to our ISP. Thanks Colin Davies __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all
by Edgehill e-mail service 18 Oct '01

18 Oct '01

This was our predicted nightmare - I think that the Head and I were agreed on 4x2 clue sticks (with optional nails) for general support issues <wry grin> Our idea was to have a small stock of hot spares, and to negotiate a central service contract for the hardware. By restricting the range of systems used, it would be possible to simply ghost an OS onto machines with a user-installation problem, and to loan a machine against physical damage. Pupils' systems would probably be locked down to prevent installation of unacceptable software, and to restrict tinkering with vital system settings. (Our network systems restore the system settings at every log-on, so probably something similar.) Regards, Paul (I have replied offlist with a copy of the report). ---------- From: Chris Puttick <chris(a)centralmanclc.com> To: 'Edgehill e-mail service ' <edgehillit(a)edgecoll.clara.net> Subject: RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all Date: 17 October 2001 15:35 I'd be very interested - we've just rolled out laptops to all the staff and it is an absolute nightmare to support. How would you deal with supporting students? -----Original Message----- From: Edgehill e-mail service To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Sent: 10/17/01 9:12 AM Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: laptops for all The bottom line: I came down firmly on the side of "Great idea, But..." There are a number of issues to be dealt with when (if) the project goes ahead, but planning over a year ahead is vital. A straw-poll of a few interested parents and suppliers suggested that leased systems were the less popular option, and wholly-owned by the pupils was the best option. If anyone wants to see a copy of the report (typos and all), please request offlist. I can send as: Winword'97; RTF; (broken) HTML. Regards, Paul Ellison <SysAdm(a)edgecoll.clara.net> ---------- > From: Terry Cefai <terryc(a)stjamesthegreat.org> > To: SysAdm(a)edgecoll.clara.net > Subject: laptops for all > Date: 15 October 2001 17:05 > > Back in February you were asking for info re: laptops for all either wholy > owned or leased in order to present a paper to yur Head............how did > it go? > any interesting responses you could forward?? > > Terry > > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

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Re: laptops for all
by Edgehill e-mail service 17 Oct '01

17 Oct '01

The bottom line: I came down firmly on the side of "Great idea, But..." There are a number of issues to be dealt with when (if) the project goes ahead, but planning over a year ahead is vital. A straw-poll of a few interested parents and suppliers suggested that leased systems were the less popular option, and wholly-owned by the pupils was the best option. If anyone wants to see a copy of the report (typos and all), please request offlist. I can send as: Winword'97; RTF; (broken) HTML. Regards, Paul Ellison <SysAdm(a)edgecoll.clara.net> ---------- > From: Terry Cefai <terryc(a)stjamesthegreat.org> > To: SysAdm(a)edgecoll.clara.net > Subject: laptops for all > Date: 15 October 2001 17:05 > > Back in February you were asking for info re: laptops for all either wholy > owned or leased in order to present a paper to yur Head............how did > it go? > any interesting responses you could forward?? > > Terry > >

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Re: UK National health deal with Microsoft
by Ian Lynch 16 Oct '01

16 Oct '01

Just for info. I have had a reply from the National Audit Office with regard to this and from the DOH. The NAO officer responsible for the health service asked for some more background and they say they will look into it. Might not do a lot of good but who knows. If anyone is interested in the reply from the DOH and what I sent back I can E-mail it but I'll not bore you all as I know some aren't interested. Apparently it isn't an exclusive agreement so each health department can use other software if they want. Rather expensive if there is no guarantee it'll get used, eh? :-). regards, -- IanL

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SuSE 7.3
by Roger Whittaker 16 Oct '01

16 Oct '01

Sorry (as usual) about the advert, but as most people probably know, 7.3 Professional will be out shortly. The RRP is £59, which means that following our 'half-price for schools' policy, we're offering it to education for £30 all-in. (OK, I know, that's 50p over, but we don't charge you for shipping ...) If you want to order, just send me a mail with an official school order number. You can also post the order to me at the address below, or fax to 020 8387 4010. Carry on having a lot of fun.... -- ------------------- Roger Whittaker SuSE Linux Ltd The Kinetic Centre Theobald Street Borehamwood Herts WD6 4PJ ------------------ 020 8387 1482 ------------------ roger(a)suse.co.uk ------------------

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Health Service MS deal
by Grainge, Derek 14 Oct '01

14 Oct '01

>The difference is that Sun is not a monopoly, nor have they been found >guilty (more than once) of breaking the law. The simple fact is that >Microsoft is a quite nasty organisation, who at some time in the >past appear to have become something more akin to gangsters and terrorists >than an honest business. >You also appear to be missing the point that tendering rules may well >have been ignored or a tender may have been put together in such a way >as to exclude all bar one supplier.> No Mark, YOU are missing the point. You are slagging off Microsoft in such an intemperate fashion that no-one in the big wide world will listen. Indeed lots of people in this group might well feel the same but be less inclined than me to chip in. Tendering rules have been broken? Slag off the Civil Service. I'm afraid that business is business and if someone in Westminster is daft enough to agree to set up a contract like this, it's a government problem, not Bill Gates'. Unless you know something about how this contract was arranged?? There is no way that ANY businessman would miss out on a contract like this, if offered. I have read a few emails here talking about gangsters, terrorists, New York ... I think the whole thread is developing into something very sad. -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of inappropriate attachments and certain obscenities. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. ********************************************************************************

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MS School Licencing Scheme
by Alan Davies 13 Oct '01

13 Oct '01

I've listened to the arguements (if thats what they are) about the NHS MS deal. I suspect that right now they represent good value for money. I would, however, have concers about locking into such an agreement - or ending up with an expensive 'buy out' scheme. I am sure that many on this list are familiar with MS deal for schools - the 40ukp deal per station for Office/Publisher/VStudio/Encarta suites. It typically represents good value for money if you intend keeping your software base up to date. However - I do strongly object to counting 'every' PC regardless or not of whether it is going to run any MS products. It may not be a big issue at the moment but it does make the cost savings of switching to linux (for some stations) a non event as I still have to count those machines in paying for the MS licence. I can't see how the Office of Fair Trading can really allow this deal - but Microsoft are certainly getting away with it. -- Alan Davies Head of Computing Birkenhead School

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: NHS MS Deal
by Grainge, Derek 13 Oct '01

13 Oct '01

I am interested in seeing the proper use of Linux in schools, and will continue to use it myself. I have enjoyed the discussions in this group, but I see little point in senseless comment from some people who have their own and very blinkered point of view. Of course the obvious retort is that my point of view is equally blinkered. I don't think so. However I have little interest in prolonging this thread any further so I am withdrawing from the list <plonk> -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of inappropriate attachments and certain obscenities. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. ********************************************************************************

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Re: NHS MS Deal
by Paul Munro 13 Oct '01

13 Oct '01

This is an interesting one indeed. Is a contract open-ended, or do you have to retender for the contract and allow for other bids, under law, for said contract? I think that one's easy enough to work out. Ian Lynch made some very good points on this, and I agree. On that note, it would appear that MS have taken advantage of the Govts. apparent distraction at this time by providing them a no-brainer: newer (cheeper?) contracts/licensing for the resumption of their license agreements under the guise of their new SA. Nice. Microsoft are not on my terrorist list, so I have no particular *gripe* with them, unless you count their antitrust behaviour and out-and-out "kill the opposition fast" business tactics as fair game? In this example (NHS contract) I think again they have shown their true business tactics, and in this respect should be opened up for all to see. Indeed, this may be in contravention of Eu law, and given the EUs interest in MS of late, should be very much in their interest to find out and investigate. If SUN had been doing this, then I think we all would be saying the same thing. Fact is, MS are a monopoloy and so need to be very careful how they conduct business; it would seem that they just don't care, because too many people believe that their practises are quite *legal* and therefore say nothing. This is no way for the software industry to continue, especially in the economic climate in which we all breathe. No. Simply, MS need to be brought to stand for this one, and the Govt need to be brought there too!! Paul

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Health Service MS deal
by mclarke＠its-linux.co.uk 12 Oct '01

12 Oct '01

Friends, I for one intend to do something about this. (if it is indeed true) Not only will I be writing to the OFT with regard to this, but I shall be seeing my MP ( Gwynneth Dunwoody) at her next available surgery. I suggest that all members of the list do likewise! NB: Any of the "what good will it do" attitude plays into the hands of both M$ and the Gov. ( as the timing of this is no accident, and this fact alone fills me with disgust. ) So put yourselves out, and put yourselves about, and if they will not hear our voice then we must learn to shout. Never loose sight of the fact that M$ considers Linux, and by association you and me, as the enemy. So they will not play fair, and they will not play by the rules. So dont be surprised............ Mat Clarke. iTS-LiNUX Ltd. 154 Mill Street Crewe Cheshire CW2 7AX Tel. +44 (0) 1270 213 829 Fax. +44 (0) 1270 213 926 *********************************************************************************************************************************** The opinions expressed in this e-mail are the senders personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or attitudes of the company. ***********************************************************************************************************************************

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Re: Health service MS Deal
by Alan Harris 12 Oct '01

12 Oct '01

Hi All, Well then, Blair gives Microsoft a 70 Million Donation - I love the concept of Best Value! Interesting news coming, as it does after an article in Computing (I think) last week stating that Cornwall C.C have just spent 1.5 Million on Microsoft Products and upgrading systems to run them (XP and Office XP)..... Perhaps it's time to stop paying our taxes? I think we should, each of us, e-mail and snail-mail the P.M. etc., directly expressing our concern about these 'dubious' dealings, at the same time as expressing our interest in what action the EU will take regarding an 'apparent' breach of it's law? After all, what else are MEP's for? Alan ----------------------------------------------------- Alan Harris Network Manager Bryngwyn School Tel : 01554 750661 Fax : 01554 758255 E-mail: alanh(a)bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk ----------------------------------------------------- Notes: 1. The contents of this email may be snooped on by interested government parties for unknown purposes! Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000. 2. The opinions expressed in this email are personal and may not be shared by Bryngwyn School. -----------------------------------------------------

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Health Service MS deal
by Kate Hanaghan 12 Oct '01

12 Oct '01

i'm currently trying to find out the answers to our questions. once again, if anyone thinks they know somehing that's relevant, do drop me a line. Kate Hanaghan Ebusiness editor Silicon Media Group +44 207 761 8219 -----Original Message----- From: Damian Counsell [mailto:counsell@icr.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 12:16 PM To: ian.lynch2(a)ntlworld.com; SuSE Schools Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Health Service MS deal Friends If this is true then it's the most shocking thing I've read since the Twin Towers collapsed. (Admittedly, this isn't a very long time, but it's not every day that 5000 people are murdered in a terrorist attack on the US mainland.) We are hardly in a position to get worked up about corruption in foreign governments if this is the kind of stitch-up we permit our own administration to be involved in. If anyone has a link to more info about this then I would be very interested to read it---I couldn't find anything about it at news.bbc.co.uk---and we should submit it to Slashdot forthwith. all the best Damian Ian Lynch wrote: > On radio 4 last night I caught a brief announcement that the Government are > doing a block deal with MS of licenses for the NHS for 70m (per year?). -- Damian COUNSELL http://www.icr.ac.uk/cmb/bioinformatics/ CMB Bioinformatics phone: +44 020 7352 8133 x5226 Institute of Cancer Research direct: +44 020 7878 3850 London SW3 6JB fax: +44 020 7351 3325 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Health Service MS deal
by Kate Hanaghan 12 Oct '01

12 Oct '01

this is really interesting .....we (silicon.com) could do something with this. anyone know anything more? Kate Hanaghan Ebusiness editor Silicon Media Group +44 207 761 8219 -----Original Message----- From: Richard Ibbotson [mailto:richard@sheflug.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 11:47 AM To: SuSE Schools Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: Health Service MS deal Ian > enquiries.competitionact(a)oft.gov.uk Wrote a long e-mail to this address but I don't expect any answers. I might also say in passing that any letter to my Member of Parliament about Linux and the cost of software to schools in the local area doesn't seem to be taken all that seriously. I've seen several invoices to local schools for MS licence for £20 000 and more. This is in northern England where we don't have money for schools. Or ... so we are told :) Thanks -- Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

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Samba
by ptaylor 11 Oct '01

11 Oct '01

Hi all: I'm sure this has been on before so apologies for the time warp. I am in my school library instaling 7.2 and need to be able to let all kids use the machine by validating with the NT server. I assume I have to add all the names to smbpasswd file? Is there an easy way to get names from the NT machine to automate the process? Also, I would like them to be able to use it for CD-ROMs but asume that Wine will not cope with windoze specific ones? I'm sure Michael will rightly chastise me for not checking the list of CDs available on his site but this is my usual 11th hour stuff and I will check later. Paul

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Help Quick
by Derek Harding 09 Oct '01

09 Oct '01

What "romomatic" NIC do I use with Compaq Netelligent (TLAN) NICs? I want to do a "diskless" workstation demo in 45 mins and have more interest than machines so need to go to another room! -- Best wishes, Derek Harding, (BA MIAP) ICT & Network Manager hardingd(a)warlingham.surrey.sch.uk

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Group calenders
by Matt Johnson 08 Oct '01

08 Oct '01

Hi folks, We already have Outlook 97 installed across our network. We don't use it at all. The management here is asking me to provide a solution for collaboration. Streamlining communication and the like. Now, I don't know an awful lot about this, but can Outlook 97 connect to a diary collaboration server other than MS Exchange? In other words, how do I (can I?) set up a Linux box to do the server side? Does StarOffice have some server with it? Can I connect Outlook to it? BTW - I just bought the Linux Cookbook, and for a newbie like me, it is superb. Just started writing some simple scripts to automate jobs. Michael Brown got me started with his 'how to copy to all home directories' doohicky. Now I understand just how flexible and simple Linux is. I've gone from: But it's all configured with text files :( to But it's all configured with text files :D Grep! And you can pipe it too? Heheheh. It suddenly all just clicks! Remember the buzz when you started to learn about pipes, and how to link commands to do flash stuff? Well that's me! Thanks, as always, for you thoughts and comments. -- Matt Johnson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

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SQL
by Marcus Birkin 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

Can any body recommend me a multi-user web based SQL front-end. I need one to store pupil information, I'll need different access levels (e.g. read/write, read, no access) Any help will be much appreciated Marcus Birkin

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