- openSUSE Documentation

[opensuse-doc] Meeting minutes 20201107
by Attila Pinter 06 Nov '20

06 Nov '20

Thank you all for your time and contribution! ========================= Present: Ivo, Tomas, Adrian, Quang, Attila What we discussed: ================== - Next steps on settling on a static page generator for docs We have the following list available for us to pick a solution from contributed by members of the doc team: - AsciiDoc/Adoc - Github Pages - Read the docs - MkDocs - Gitbook - Gatsby - VuePress - Docusaurus - Antora (uses Asciidoc/Adoc) - Dauxio - Sphinx - mdBook - BookStack - Doxgen - Hugo & Docsy We're aiming to settle on a decision within the next 1-2 weeks. If you're interested in participating in the decision making do sound your opinion and share your reasons for your preferred platform. Once we settle on this we can continue settling on a format and workflow utilized across the docs team. Just to clarify! If you're not comfortable to participate with your docs in any of the above listed option and/or you prefer to use something else and maintain your docs elsewhere, but would like your docs to make it to the unified platform just leave a link to your docs and we will include them with the source included. - Video team discussion: Ivo to establish a unique standard that would aid in differentiating/identifying our video contents. Simple, short, to-the-point materials. Ivo also offered to record our meetings for those who can't make it in a video/audio format. If you interested in listening/wathing us talking docs let us know here/Telegram/Matrix/Discord. ===================== Clarification points: ===================== - We're planning to set up an ELK instance to be able to collect issues across multiple channels of openSUSE such as Discord, Reddit, Telegram, basically the user focused channels. The purpose of the initiative is to have a better insight into reoccurring issues so we can prioritize our work and also to measure the success of the docs team. - The meetings are currently happening every two weeks at 1800UTC on Fridays. We can set meetings for 0600UTC again if needed/there is demand for it. - The "team sync mails" are happening weekly. If you don't see a mail on a given week that is because nothing happened/changed. -- Br, A. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Next meeting 2020-11-06
by Attila Pinter 05 Nov '20

05 Nov '20

Dear All, Apologies for the super late update - second week on the job and already slipping - we have a meeting on November 6, Friday 1800 UTC. The details will be available here: https://en.opensuse.org/Documentation:Meetings Jitsi link: https://meet.opensuse.org/opensuse-docs Also there has been no "sync mail" as there is nothing really changed from last week. -- Br, A. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] opensuse-docs team sync message 20201027
by Attila Pinter 27 Oct '20

27 Oct '20

This is a sync message collecting key information from the Telegram group (bridged to #docs:opensuse.org and #docs at discord.gg/opensuse) and Trello. These "sync" messages are intended to keep everyone in the Docs team informed utilizing the mailing list. The "sync" messages are going to be sent on a weekly basis or if something is important will be shared pretty much immediately. If you have something to add please feel free to do so here and will be added by me on Trello for example. ========================================================================= ========================================================================= What we've been discussing on Telegram and Trello since the last meeting: - Planning the next meeting Badr said: "I propose another 2 or 3 consecutive meeting since we have a lot to discuss. For example the website, we need to discuss my proposal and any other proposals out there. I've also added some options to discuss regarding the documentation platforms in a Trello list. etc." Adrian said: " I am all for having more meetings but I also hear those who want to start being productive. How about this: - we meet the upcoming week Thursday or Friday - we carve up our live time so that every subgroup/role (collecting support data, doc contents & platform, videos) have their fare share, perhaps 10-15 min max. - the rest of the time is for new tasks or "meta" things (i.e. adjusting how we work)" Attila said: "Maybe in the meanwhile we could get a few things rolling on Trello for instance - which I'm going to sync tomorrow to the ML -. Like populating the "Reference documentation" list which already has some really great topics/tasks listed. Would be also nice to settle internally on the platform we going to use." Infrastructure related: ======================= - Looking into acessing either the Elastic deployment on the openSUSE infrastructure (if exists) or deploying our own by myself for analysing the main openSUSE communication channels. This would aid our effort greatly in terms of prioritizing issues. If I deploy ELK acess will be provider to the Docs/Web/Heroes team as well. - Moving Trello to a Kanban deployed on openSUSE infrastructure. Maybe we can help out with this the Web/Heroes team. https://en.opensuse.org/Help:Kanban - We're looking for a documentation platform to be utilized for publishing documentations. Currently we have the following solutions on our list (do feel free and raise your opinion): - Github pages - Read the Docs - MkDocs - Gitbook.com - Gatsby - VuePress - Docusaurus - Antora - en.opensuse.org (current wiki) - Adoc (it uses asciidoc and antora and used for SUSE Manager docs as well, upstream doc: https://www.uyuni-project.org/uyuni-docs/uyuni/index.html Toolchain: https://github.com/uyuni-project/uyuni-docs. Lana said: "interestingly, since we moved the suse manager docs from docbook to adoc, we've also had a huge uptick in external contributors, too") Actual documentation work ========================= - Reference documentation list population. Currently has the following items and looking to add more: - Comparison chart for supported desktop environments? - Guide similar to GNOME guide for all supported desktops - Tumbleweed snapshots workflow vs. Tumbleweed packages workflow - Teams: You can find more here: https://en.opensuse.org/Opensuse-docs/prep-meeting-10-23#Roles Still looking for volunteers fo the Video team, Collectors of Most Pressing Issues and writers of course. If interested feel free to reach out! As a refresher from the last meeting: > "2) Continuity >Job => Make sure no one is left behind, takes minutes in meetings and tries to >keep the mailing list people in the loop, keep tabs on who does what, etc. > >3) Pressing Issues >Job => Mobilize search & data aggregation tools (oS Heroes may grant access to >Elastic Search). Consolidate data about the pressing issues. > >Attila volunteers for 2 and 3. > >4) Videos >- Ivo, Emmanuel >- They will work on a script they will share on the wiki. >Topics: >1) explain the differences between the distros & differences with Debian-based >distros >2) Yast & openSUSE specifics, especially YaST >3) Plasma "tips & tricks": power-user workflows, widgets, tiling features, >exposé-like features, mult-desktops / multi-monitors >They will get in touch with the marketing department, seeking for help and >syncing up for *promotional* contents. >They will share their exact needs. -- Br, A. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Meeting minutes of openSUSE-doc meeting 20201023
by Attila Pinter 23 Oct '20

23 Oct '20

Thank you all for joining the meeting! As a side note: in future meetings please avoid going so hard off-topic ;) -- Br, A. Minutes 23rd of October 2020 ============================ 3 rules of communication ------------------------ Agreed that: - everyone use their favorite channel of communication - every decision made are first shared to MLs & then stored on the Wiki at some point. Some reasonable delay should be tolerated. - MLs will be used on a regular basis to keep contributors & others in the loop. Ivo's proposal to add to the documentation ------------------------------------------ Need to add clear guidelines catering to professional or more generally *conservative* users -- typically corporate -- to keep their workflow afloat pre- , during and after *migrating* from SLES to Leap. Need to chart the most useful repositories for professional users. Groups ------ 1) Docs proper Every section of the docs has 1 maintainer; everyone can move throughout sections freely. - Mike - Attila - Baldr - Adrien Need to make explicit how we approve and peer-review every step along the way. Need to decide for a platform -- static doc generators seem to fit the bill. Need to have to make sure who takes responsibility of the 3 sections (before, during, after). 2) Continuity Job => Make sure no one is left behind, takes minutes in meetings and tries to keep the mailing list people in the loop, keep tabs on who does what, etc. 3) Pressing Issues Job => Mobilize search & data aggregation tools (oS Heroes may grant access to Elastic Search). Consolidate data about the pressing issues. Attila volunteers for 2 and 3. 4) Videos - Ivo, Emmanuel - They will work on a script they will share on the wiki. Topics: 1) explain the differences between the distros & differences with Debian-based distros 2) Yast & openSUSE specifics, especially YaST 3) Plasma "tips & tricks": power-user workflows, widgets, tiling features, exposé-like features, mult-desktops / multi-monitors They will get in touch with the marketing department, seeking for help and syncing up for *promotional* contents. They will share their exact needs. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[Fwd: Re: [opensuse-doc] Upcoming meeting]]
by TomasK 23 Oct '20

23 Oct '20

On Fri, 2020-10-23 at 11:23 +0200, Adrien Glauser wrote: > > > I am using these things to strike a balance between the pain of > > > turning very circumstantial texts into media wiki syntax and the > > > pain for others to have to jump between too many tools. So far > > > we've been able to work with just trello, google docs, the > > > opensuse wiki, telegram and emails -- not too bad don't you > > > think? :) . > > > > There is no need to get defensive. > > > > I am using these things to strike a balance between the pain of > > > > turning very circumstantial texts into media wiki syntax and > > > > the pain for others to have to jump between too many tools. So > > > > far we've been able to work with just trello, google docs, the > > > > opensuse wiki, telegram and emails -- not too bad don't you > > > > think? :) . > > > > > > There is no need to get defensive. local = opensuse.org > > I specifically refer to opensuse documentation on this link: > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zERjqqQrWBAoM3B25BIQ4hvTFU_Y7S8 > > L57b > > h-wb6ld4/edit?usp=sharing > > Followed by bunch of third party resources listed in your telegram > > post. > > > > These "third party resources" are websites, which don't do much > except > serve HTTP requests. I mentioned them so that we can visit them, look > around, a more forward with some baseline of an idea. Nothing else. > Pure references. > > My understanding is that you want all of us to abide by a principle > that says that there is moral requirement not to use non-FOSS > software > when there is a FOSS alternative. But I fail to understand how this > principle applies to websites in general, or to the use of them as I > was suggesting. If you meant this principle to rule out not websites > but Telegram, I don't know what to say except: > 1) that I am trying to make everything to not create a gap between > users and non-users, as you can witness from my activity on the MLs; > 2) that the entire openSUSE community is present on many of these > non- > FOSS platforms, such as Discord and Telegram (if we mean "non-FOSS" > to > cover server code and not just client code). > > On the other hand, I am trying to acknowledge the fact that you don't > feel at ease with these websites, and my assumption was that this was > the case because you felt like the normative principle stated above > made them morally wrong to use / browse. > > I think you are mistaken in you application of the moral principle (I > mean, does Richard Stallman buys his airplane tickets from Emacs?), > but > I am ready to suspend judgment and to make a step in your direction. > Hence my suggestion that you clarify which tools you think are > permitted as per your understanding of the moral principle. > > I hope this is crystal clear now. > How is all this relevant to opensuse documentation and website improvements? This is a statement with question mark - no answer or explanation needed - I have no interest in digressing from the and discussing politics I interpret your long email as - we work though the social media and do not intend to change for now. Fair enough - I will find different place/way to help. Tomas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Upcoming meeting
by Attila Pinter 23 Oct '20

23 Oct '20

Dear All, Just a heads up. The next meeting will be held on 10/23 Friday at 6pm UTC. Do check the pinned message from the Telegram group (even if you can't join) here: https://telegra.ph/pinned-2-10-15 -- A. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Re: [opensuse-project] Re: Refreshing the openSUSE learning experience
by Adrien Glauser 16 Oct '20

16 Oct '20

> I have to agree with Lars on this topic. > > "Protect" sounds to me like And that's where the discussion went bankrupt, where the topic was shifted to how someone felt about a word when instead there was a precise definition of what the word meant, and a concrete context against which that definition was illustrated. Perhaps I am the one to fault for this as I've been quite long winded on this topic. So if you read 3 minutes into the backlog you'll see that "Protect" in the context has nothing to do with dogma or exclusion or control, but on the contrary was about propagating up-to-date information and empirically tested good practices. Anyway, I have little interest in building a theory of learning in the FOSS environment, let alone defending it on this ML. Just wanted to keep people in the loop. I will continue to do so, but at the end of the day, only concrete results matter. Anyone here will have plenty of time to make constructive criticisms of every aspect and detail of the results, and I have no reason to doubt that we will try our best to honour them. See ya later the team wants to artifically limit me (as > a contributor) on which platforms I can use to engage with other > openSUSE contributors and define exactly where I must go if I wish to > provide information to openSUSE users. > > I assure you, if that is the case, then I will cease contributing to > any "official" openSUSE documentation platform and only provide > information via platforms of my own control. > > Like Lars says, we're a diverse bunch, and respecting that diversity is > a key value of the openSUSE's guiding principles. > > I do hope I have misunderstood what you mean by "Protect", but if I > have not, then I hope I make it very clear where I stand on the matter. > > > > > > Le mercredi 14 octobre 2020 à 16:22 +0200, Lars Vogdt a écrit : > > > Am 2020-10-14 15:11, schrieb Adrien Glauser: > > > > My beef with it is that it kinda assumes that we want to > > > > accept the status quo with the current level fragmentation in > > > > support > > > > material, while this "refreshing the learning experience" is > > > > about > > > > challenging the status quo. To be clear, we are talking about two > > > > strategies: > > > > > > > > (Repair) Bite the bullet about fragmentation, make or customize a > > > > search engine able to fight fragmentation after the facts, so > > > > that > > > > support material is dynamically aggregated. > > > > > > > > (Protect) Refuse to bite the bullet, prevent fragmentation in the > > > > first > > > > place by collecting information into a static (yet easy to > > > > maintain) > > > > single "source of truth & best practices", and then hope it > > > > irrigates > > > > all platforms. > > > > > > I have to admit that I really like your enthusiasm and wish your > > > project > > > all the best! > > > > > > I just fear that "Repair" is the only realistic option, especially > > > long > > > term. > > > > > > Why? We are an open source project with a lot of individuals trying > > > to > > > work on their areas of interest. Often enough these areas produce > > > very > > > interesting and useful stuff, but the results could - at least in > > > the > > > beginning - not be integrated under your "protect" umbrella > > > (mostly > > > because of resource or time restrictions). You can decide to loose > > > some > > > of these projects because of your restrictions, but I'm not sure if > > > this > > > is a good idea. > > > > > > We are diverse. Everyone has different opinions and different > > > favorite > > > tools. Trying to press everyone into the same tooling will not help > > > to > > > get more volunteers. I even tend to say that people who provided > > > content in "their" tool in the past will neither spent their > > > current > > > time to migrate their content nor will they update their parts in > > > the > > > new setup later. > > > > > > I have seen this in the past with the "wiki migration". A lot of > > > people > > > stopped their voluntary contributions once others decided that > > > they > > > *have to move* and refresh their provided content in the new wiki > > > pages. > > > Since than, for me, it's clear that forcing volunteers to re-do > > > their > > > former work is a way to push good contributors out of the system. > > > > > > And as I said before: so far I see the reason behind each tool that > > > we > > > (as openSUSE community) provide to our "customers". What I miss on > > > the > > > other side is kind of a portal (page) that helps people to > > > identify > > > these tools and ways to collaborate and contribute. And I miss - > > > like > > > you - volunteers that review the existing content. > > > > > > > > > > About your other point about the tools that the openSUSE > > > > platforms > > > > provide, is there an up-to-date list of every single tool hosted > > > > by > > > > openSUSE? Yes I am being lazy, but better being lazy than risking > > > > overlooking things. > > > > > > For projects hosted and maintained in the openSUSE universe (this > > > includes infrastructure provided by the heroes as well as SUSE > > > powered > > > stuff) I suggest to look at: > > > > > > https://status.opensuse.org/ > > > > > > ...and if you click on the icon in the upper right corner of that > > > page, > > > you should get a cool overview of all currently known openSUSE > > > related > > > stuff. > > > > > > With kind regards, > > > Lars > > > > -- > Richard Brown > Linux Distribution Engineer - Future Technology Team > > Phone +4991174053-361 > SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 > Nuernberg > (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) > Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Re: [opensuse-project] Re: Refreshing the openSUSE learning experience
by Adrien Glauser 14 Oct '20

14 Oct '20

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hey again Lars, Yes, we are not foolish, Repair and Protect should absolutely work together. For us it's definitely Protect now and Repair later. Of course we are living in a world of entropy: docs decays, code rots, volunteers marry and grow a belly. We have to live with that and the best we can do is promote *knowledge transfer* to fight the entropy, throughout all scales of proficiency between engineers and absolute newcomers. Be assured that we don't want to find the one-size-fit-them-all kind of solution. I think we are going to be very empirical about this -- start from most common and painful issues and give visibility to the most simple combination of technical details and best practices for preventing or fixing them. Anyway, all this is just words until we have something concrete to show you, so I better go back to work. Have a pleasant end of the week, Adrien Le mercredi 14 octobre 2020 à 16:22 +0200, Lars Vogdt a écrit : > Am 2020-10-14 15:11, schrieb Adrien Glauser: > > My beef with it is that it kinda assumes that we want to > > accept the status quo with the current level fragmentation in > > support > > material, while this "refreshing the learning experience" is about > > challenging the status quo. To be clear, we are talking about two > > strategies: > > > > (Repair) Bite the bullet about fragmentation, make or customize a > > search engine able to fight fragmentation after the facts, so that > > support material is dynamically aggregated. > > > > (Protect) Refuse to bite the bullet, prevent fragmentation in the > > first > > place by collecting information into a static (yet easy to > > maintain) > > single "source of truth & best practices", and then hope it > > irrigates > > all platforms. > > I have to admit that I really like your enthusiasm and wish your > project > all the best! > > I just fear that "Repair" is the only realistic option, especially > long > term. > > Why? We are an open source project with a lot of individuals trying > to > work on their areas of interest. Often enough these areas produce > very > interesting and useful stuff, but the results could - at least in > the > beginning - not be integrated under your "protect" umbrella (mostly > because of resource or time restrictions). You can decide to loose > some > of these projects because of your restrictions, but I'm not sure if > this > is a good idea. > > We are diverse. Everyone has different opinions and different > favorite > tools. Trying to press everyone into the same tooling will not help > to > get more volunteers. I even tend to say that people who provided > content in "their" tool in the past will neither spent their current > time to migrate their content nor will they update their parts in > the > new setup later. > > I have seen this in the past with the "wiki migration". A lot of > people > stopped their voluntary contributions once others decided that they > *have to move* and refresh their provided content in the new wiki > pages. > Since than, for me, it's clear that forcing volunteers to re-do > their > former work is a way to push good contributors out of the system. > > And as I said before: so far I see the reason behind each tool that > we > (as openSUSE community) provide to our "customers". What I miss on > the > other side is kind of a portal (page) that helps people to identify > these tools and ways to collaborate and contribute. And I miss - > like > you - volunteers that review the existing content. > > > > About your other point about the tools that the openSUSE platforms > > provide, is there an up-to-date list of every single tool hosted by > > openSUSE? Yes I am being lazy, but better being lazy than risking > > overlooking things. > > For projects hosted and maintained in the openSUSE universe (this > includes infrastructure provided by the heroes as well as SUSE > powered > stuff) I suggest to look at: > > https://status.opensuse.org/ > > ...and if you click on the icon in the upper right corner of that > page, > you should get a cool overview of all currently known openSUSE > related > stuff. > > With kind regards, > Lars > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEU4ol/0bSQTwqpAkNMy9Aieh+wJwFAl+HbzkACgkQMy9Aieh+ wJxHRgf7B/xaaiWvIwFzQZGLWBE+2ypVEcJhDzh+N9dOV4FPyvXcIPTgRadtK5sY HVWd68tEgdc/mD5lhtGPTClOao44aEu17PnRQtC57y9evUC4ZRgp3ufIwgi/YVfm NBk7t1dYoyn8RJZO4rEmcJTQ8NkGjW2YDKUK1dwC0HeGJE4XPcllo52IJ2PU2r/D 0hgkFsZy9HA6/EhnF1gAiMCcdlBs4huQVNHym7X1MrTwmWjRJkmQgAxZ6N8JNDn8 KViF/b7Gbbs5uGngI4QIdPbFJ7wxpJTJGVYvl0IFTBiHUA7QPJlA5ql1BuHhzdte TdHmgLgtK2Eqtgwz8DqAUtkmftP/Lg== =PJUf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Re: Refreshing the openSUSE learning experience
by sergio 14 Oct '20

14 Oct '20

Hi Lars, El mié, 14-10-2020 a las 16:22 +0200, Lars Vogdt escribió: > I suggest to look at: > https://status.opensuse.org/ > > ...and if you click on the icon in the upper right corner of that > page, you should get a cool overview of all currently known openSUSE > related stuff. I have always missed that button. Couldn't that menu be shown always as the footer? Kind Regards -- Sergio Lindo Mansilla <slindomansilla(a)suse.com> QA Engineer SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany https://www.suse.com/ (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer

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[opensuse-doc] Re: Refreshing the openSUSE learning experience
by Adrien Glauser 14 Oct '20

14 Oct '20

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hi again Lars, Your point about a general-purpose, cross-platform search engine for all things openSUSE has a lot for it, especially in view of the fact that support on instant messaging platforms is currently not discoverable. My beef with it is that it kinda assumes that we want to accept the status quo with the current level fragmentation in support material, while this "refreshing the learning experience" is about challenging the status quo. To be clear, we are talking about two strategies: (Repair) Bite the bullet about fragmentation, make or customize a search engine able to fight fragmentation after the facts, so that support material is dynamically aggregated. (Protect) Refuse to bite the bullet, prevent fragmentation in the first place by collecting information into a static (yet easy to maintain) single "source of truth & best practices", and then hope it irrigates all platforms. As I see it our "refreshing the learning experience" project is primarily trying to implement the second. If we follow this logic it is clear that if someone has a great idea that falls under the "source of truth & best practices" category, it should be fed back into whatever static doc we have so that things don't stop improving. But again, I don't think this requires a cross-platform search engine. To be sure, I agree we need a search engine, just not for fighting fragmentation; I think we need one to simply make everyone squeeze out as much juice possible from "the source of truth & best practices", and indeed it shouldn't be too difficult to avoid relying on Gooooooooooooooooogle for that. About your other point about the tools that the openSUSE platforms provide, is there an up-to-date list of every single tool hosted by openSUSE? Yes I am being lazy, but better being lazy than risking overlooking things. Cheers, Adrien > The heroes meanwhile have control over all tools, that you need for > this purpose. That means especially that they have access to the > data(bases) with the content in it. > > I think it might be a cool (SoC?) project to provide a search engine > that covers: > * forums > * wikis > * docs > * mailing lists > * matrix (and the bridged chats) > * ... (and other tools I forgot) > > That does definitively not mean that I want to stop you with your > project. I just think we could try to work on multiple areas, > keeping an overall picture in mind. > All our tools provide specific solutions for our community. All have > their meaning and a right to stay. > > But if we want to help our community to get good answers for their > specific question, I think relying on Google alone is not the b > estidea. > > Lars > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEU4ol/0bSQTwqpAkNMy9Aieh+wJwFAl+G+OoACgkQMy9Aieh+ wJxniwf/QLsFU9HD2d6AQMvIAYlNcOr+kt6NL47K2IaoZ55of0RDIGOFkz79OR8o 2BTVHI5+eySeGo8dTbusVTcsk5cNQN7O2h6c7JXSWDKt2HEfX9/WKXbKTHFrruct tU7vnuq9n8QWa0Mdmo7X0NVXf5Fn01IkA53ePg/nBRVroRtm6vAB4zxvHxcca4OL TuXFPVMolHOAc63If/Y3eML11i2BIfJBBXOisCeDIkghYH9lFZoHhk6kkVGO6jAb aCiBRXYEZG0fpUh6jWUCaJ1+4JUBnd/HCiOwYYB2j1QlVswxOfuIgQmkNXUZ3PnF HHYeRxtsK+/I3CxYwwPhyvOhdVm2Qg== =H6kQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Re: [opensuse-project] Re: Refreshing the openSUSE learning experience
by Adrien Glauser 14 Oct '20

14 Oct '20

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hey Lars, Thanks for jumping in! Moodle surely taps into my memories of college! :-P I think it has a place in an educational setting but my worry is that it might feel a bit too formal to the end user while lacking the flexibility we want to be able to make the most of both visual and textual contents. For example I doubt Moodle packs a full-text engine, right? Or more generally that it shines at allowing the end user to discover topics just as good as a wiki... So yeah, we need: - - something full-text searchable - - with good discoverability features - - easy to update - - pleasant to browse and visually enticing. The last point is perhaps where wikis fall flat the hardest (though there are exceptions), but all things considered these conditions don't really decide between a wiki or a documentation generator engine with full-text search. I think the precise platform will become obvious once we're done with our first todo list. So yeah, if you have other suggestions that tick these boxes that'll be very useful, but Doodle makes me squint a bit. Cheers, Adrien Le mercredi 14 octobre 2020 à 06:03 +0000, Lars Vogdt a écrit : > Am October 13, 2020 12:59:03 PM UTC schrieb Adrien Glauser < > adrien.glauser(a)gmail.com>: > > My only hope is that if we consolidate and update all documentation > > material *while also offering recommendations over and above mere > > descriptive material* we will be able to have a "source of truth" > > useful enough to knock down the two Problems, at least as far as > > new > > users are concerned. > > Please excuse me jumping in here, but maybe it's helpful information > for you or others that I started: > > https://moodle.opensuse.org/ > > a few weeks ago. This is not about documentation, but a learn > management system, that could - theoretic ally - help users to learn > to understand the details of some Linux or open source parts by > reading documentation or presentations, discussing in topic centric > forums/ chats or even prove their knowledge in tests - around > specific topics. > > So far, the login with your IDP account should already work. What is > obviously missing there is content and trainers/ teachers, that want > to provide course material and teach people. > > > > > > Any help is welcome, especially > > > > for: > > > > > > > > - writing, editing and peer-reviewing: We would be delighted to > > > > benefit > > > > from more knowledgeable people to help us refresh, deepen and > > > > harmonize > > > > openSUSE's wikis and other documentation platforms > > > > > > > > - video editing: Our video staff is looking for people > > > > interested > > > > in > > > > producing video contents and / or willing to script and record > > > > video > > > > tutorials in English > > JFYI: moodle would allow to summarize/ combine tutorial videos, docs, > dedicated wikis and other stuff under one umbrella. One .opensuse.org > umbrella with full control for interested community members. > > Regards, > Lars > > > -- > Lars Vogdt <Lars.Vogdt(a)suse.com> > - BuildOPS Engineering Team Lead - > SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH > (HRB 247165, AG München), GF: Felix Imendörffer -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEU4ol/0bSQTwqpAkNMy9Aieh+wJwFAl+GyFMACgkQMy9Aieh+ wJzDvwgAgv3Cxdb976JxsHkkTjKFEQXzdANw3enuYIFifWiQv8JDEUzrnqjaf3Bm 0LVkKRZp7O2GpVsd9BOYrYJypVfcv0VYgCcpFvDZh+8hp9ZSesjiRW/BdAhayIC6 mkER6awx307kHFoOvJbEkOvVDPV8Aep2lc9yHdGHsOdJ8vVeq3IDcd986rl72ytz udQtLgz3uLtNOKOU1trgJpEWifBO7KKyxcRj99ohW+3IwTUprlaq3V97Ims7qD27 Zx6CEG2Tv5jihnyZGFI/5C9CgG2gay2ET0mrzfkGLiKDJhZa2x/O1qnzibZZDcaW SqkS6r7x4JzX6+4S11xkzGE9tYHdbw== =1ALA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Re: [opensuse-project] Refreshing the openSUSE learning experience
by Adrien Glauser 13 Oct '20

13 Oct '20

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hey Lubos, Thanks, hope we won't be losing steam during the journey, but at least we're off onto something! Support for openSUSE is indeed quite fragmented: - - r/openSUSE - - https://t.me/openSUSE_group bridged with the Freenode IRC and the Discord ("chat" channel) - - "support" channel on Discord bridged with the Freenode IRC - - mailing lists - - https://forums.opensuse.org - - all the non-English forums Now even though I don't see fragmentation as a problem in itself, there are two kinds of fragmentation that do hurt: 1) The Problem of Good Answers Take Luck When a question needs more than just descriptive material, and ought to be answered by something like a recommendation or a short deliberation where pros and cons have to be weighed against each other (i.e. should I install NVIDIA proprietary drivers or openSUSE NVIDIA package or just use Nouveau?); in this case, depending where you ask you will get different answers, not all equally good 2) The Problem of Good Answers Evaporate When a question has been met by a very good answer, which unfortunately is not conveniently discoverable by web search engines. And now to your remark: I don't think that r/openSUSE is an issue because in my experience -- perhaps other experiences will tell differently -- it avoids both Problems above, and I don't see another Problem it'd run into. For me the issue is more with the instant messaging services. I use them all the time and they are super good for coordination, but run into both issues full throttle. There is no magic cure I can think of right now. My only hope is that if we consolidate and update all documentation material *while also offering recommendations over and above mere descriptive material* we will be able to have a "source of truth" useful enough to knock down the two Problems, at least as far as new users are concerned. Just my opinion though. Cheers, Adrien Le mardi 13 octobre 2020 à 07:10 +0000, Lubos Kocman a écrit : > Thank you very much for your effort Adrien, > > what I'd love to see is less question on reddit.com and more > questions > on *.opensuse.org hosted domains. Or perhaps we just need to better > integrate with reddit :-) > > On Mon, 2020-10-12 at 17:16 +0200, Adrien Glauser wrote: > > Hello, > > > > On behalf of our group of volunteers working with the doc team I > > wanted > > to share with you this annoucement. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Adrien > > > > --- Join our team and help us improve the openSUSE learning > > experience > > ! --- > > > > For years openSUSE has meant more than one distribution. With the > > recent addition of Kubic and MicroOS to the Leap & Tumbleweed > > family, > > different package sets, release models and workflows can be > > difficult > > to keep tabs on. openSUSE's ecosystem is in full blossom, but even > > jungles sometimes need a clearing. > > > > This is why a group of volunteers has taken up the task of > > improving > > the learning experience for all users -- regardless of their > > experience > > and expertise. For new users, we want to make sure they can > > identify > > what best fits their needs, get the right tools and seamlessly take > > over from the post-installation screen. For experienced users, we > > want > > to provide them with detailed documentation that is easy to update, > > so > > that their experience and expertise can benefit others. > > > > We believe that from engineers to end-users, everyone deserves to > > have > > confidence not only in their OS, but in the way they're using it. A > > chain of trust like this is made of a user-friendly documentation > > where > > technical details are balanced with evidence-based good practices. > > > > It is with this goal in sight that we are calling the community for > > more volunteers. We are already set on course but the journey will > > be > > quicker -- and funnier -- with you. Any help is welcome, especially > > for: > > > > - writing, editing and peer-reviewing: We would be delighted to > > benefit > > from more knowledgeable people to help us refresh, deepen and > > harmonize > > openSUSE's wikis and other documentation platforms > > > > - video editing: Our video staff is looking for people interested > > in > > producing video contents and / or willing to script and record > > video > > tutorials in English > > > > - testing: We need more people to help us test out already known > > work- > > flows and settings on new hardware, see if what used to be > > recommended > > still should be. > > > > So now you can't say you didn't know. Do reach out and come with us > > shape the future of the openSUSE learning experience! You can find > > us > > on the following platforms: > > > > - Telegram group: https://t.me/opensuse_docs > > > > - IRC bridge: https://matrix.to/#/#docs:opensuse.org > > > > - Discord bridge: https://disboard.org/fr/server/366985425371398146 > > then Contributing > docs > > > > - mailing list: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-doc/ > > > > Last but not least: this is part of a collective effort so we are > > happy > > to relay to you that get.opensuse.org -- the future entry-point to > > the > > openSUSE web platforms -- is also looking for volunteers. Their > > goal > > is > > to deploy by November and they are still looking for committers to > > the > > repo at https://github.com/opensuse/get-o-o as well as translators. > > Translation tasks can be picked up at http://l10n.opensuse.org. > > Everyone interested is welcome to get in touch with Stasiek > > Michalski > > for details. > > > > Looking forward to meeting you! > -- > > Best regards > > Luboš Kocman > > Release Manager openSUSE Leap > > SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH > Maxfeldstr. 5 > 90409 Nuremberg > Germany > > (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) > Managing Director: Felix Imendörffer > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEU4ol/0bSQTwqpAkNMy9Aieh+wJwFAl+FpJcACgkQMy9Aieh+ wJyn2gf9FKPPNGAnKOX5hfjwRyK0RKja3XqJVimYoegyeUMx5ZkVwbtlGgI1rxcs RniQjgoB0iKyf02tCnUU0dXvOb5BtvlW7mbMu8RI7dWhZp8jxcLASJmHtUrWszJu Iv2Pyjo2Qq0cXyhVTUV/yk+PgCo49SIQqGreNC/hFU/BF9UJgKAZ+ml1GV+QaPAs /t4KSSX4BbPNYoNnBGiZOouTYZqMXARDBFZZBRPmdEmSdZcGsqBMhH/xwT4h98Wm x3XHkR4yXZM+WmGaxg9c9sH9DnyrXlYew76KY+yt0O1bMazTq0V2s98vR9cSNFLZ 1XngFTPlaVyH5Oz+NysGmGcL7NiBuw== =ebzv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Refreshing the openSUSE learning experience
by Adrien Glauser 13 Oct '20

13 Oct '20

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hello, On behalf of our group of volunteers working with the doc team I wanted to share with you this annoucement. Cheers, Adrien - --- Join our team and help us improve the openSUSE learning experience ! --- For years openSUSE has meant more than one distribution. With the recent addition of Kubic and MicroOS to the Leap & Tumbleweed family, different package sets, release models and workflows can be difficult to keep tabs on. openSUSE's ecosystem is in full blossom, but even jungles sometimes need a clearing. This is why a group of volunteers has taken up the task of improving the learning experience for all users -- regardless of their experience and expertise. For new users, we want to make sure they can identify what best fits their needs, get the right tools and seamlessly take over from the post-installation screen. For experienced users, we want to provide them with detailed documentation that is easy to update, so that their experience and expertise can benefit others. We believe that from engineers to end-users, everyone deserves to have confidence not only in their OS, but in the way they're using it. A chain of trust like this is made of a user-friendly documentation where technical details are balanced with evidence-based good practices. It is with this goal in sight that we are calling the community for more volunteers. We are already set on course but the journey will be quicker -- and funnier -- with you. Any help is welcome, especially for: - - writing, editing and peer-reviewing: We would be delighted to benefit from more knowledgeable people to help us refresh, deepen and harmonize openSUSE's wikis and other documentation platforms - - video editing: Our video staff is looking for people interested in producing video contents and / or willing to script and record video tutorials in English - - testing: We need more people to help us test out already known work- flows and settings on new hardware, see if what used to be recommended still should be. So now you can't say you didn't know. Do reach out and come with us shape the future of the openSUSE learning experience! You can find us on the following platforms: - - Telegram group: https://t.me/opensuse_docs - - IRC bridge: https://matrix.to/#/#docs:opensuse.org - - Discord bridge: https://disboard.org/fr/server/366985425371398146 then Contributing > docs - - mailing list: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-doc/ Last but not least: this is part of a collective effort so we are happy to relay to you that get.opensuse.org -- the future entry-point to the openSUSE web platforms -- is also looking for volunteers. Their goal is to deploy by November and they are still looking for committers to the repo at https://github.com/opensuse/get-o-o as well as translators. Translation tasks can be picked up at http://l10n.opensuse.org. Everyone interested is welcome to get in touch with Stasiek Michalski for details. Looking forward to meeting you! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEU4ol/0bSQTwqpAkNMy9Aieh+wJwFAl+Ec00ACgkQMy9Aieh+ wJyydQf+MhYnipalZG/R7xGGEwCkEGJG39DdO3oaNCM6hjH70xn3GSgNRM8eExvM qcshub2cf8VjCbr37kzKWBRcCMTu0KFNrs8JR758WJKdwVcy3/fm3cAv9kT4CM7d vI+/xJNPMnTR0qfyX4Dzbf/DFUSYd5VVvj3UiRstFWKaqs4kIkNnKa0CkSmmgVDL WnNcZFCKJwaSbPMaeSFAnnTReLosAsF5D4+m03/qVI95lwBp5p/8mIzHLjf3THRO QYBkfigDOIv4pF369DVH4ApdWN/3QLbWbcYP7J7S/k2gwigV59eusuBAQKQRCBKt m5Nq4UprevG3hpawcZ/xq9B6YFbgfg== =s5dF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Meeting #3
by adathor 13 Oct '20

13 Oct '20

Please find the meeting notes below. Looking forward to the next round! A. Present: Mike, Ivo, Andres, Attila ================================== 1.) Homework check ================================== -- Martin Schlander gave his blessing to use any content from opensuse-guide.org for our work, -- Results from tests creating USB installers/Live USB from Windows are in: (TL;DR: Etcher gave the best results) Rufus: -- Ad: TW does not work either as DD or ISO; Leap not tested Balena Etcher: -- Ad: TW & Leap work ImageUSB: -- Ad: not tested SUSE Studio ImageWriter: -- Andrés: success (Leap 15.2 used in a buggy UEFI, so this one would be my go-to) Unetbootin: -- Ad: TW & Leap work but risky programs for new users, many combinations of options etc. Fedora MediaWriter: -- Ad: TW works, Leap works Mac test still pending, Attila can try and access one to test the above listed tools. >From Ivo and Andres: Do note that Live environments are can be problematic as Secureboot sometimes works sometimes doesn't on Leap at least. Ivo also mentioned issues with gparted as it only starts when booted in legacy mode. -- Ivo's requirements for the videos: A remotely accessible KVM server what Attila will provide for him to spin up and manage VMs for videos. Prioritize issues on the wiki, write those docs first and Ivo to utilize those articles as a storyboard in the videos going through step-by-step the guide. For the video team: "*IVO* I have to explain many things among which 1. obs-studio studio 2. how to make a storyboard 3. effective voice-over techniques 4. all about audio and sound tracks 5. how to record a video and use 1 - 4 point" -- Adrien drafted a letter what we did not go through during the meeting, but Andres and I went through it outside the meeting and it seems to be good. Mike and Ivo to review later too. Mike suggested not to send out the letter as of yet. Has been agreed. -- Task syncing between Trello-Telegram+bridges-ML: Looking through the automated options it is unlikely to fly within a short period of time unless we develop a bot of some sort to push tasks to Trello from Telegram. Which would be doable, but not sure who would have the time for it so we fall back to manually doing this for now. However, the concern from our previous meeting was the privacy matter with Trello. There is apparently a Kanban thing deployed on the infra which IMO we should gain access to and replace Trello with that. I'm happy to pursue this avenue if agreed to, but would be probably the best way to go. ================================== We discussed/agreed to ================================== We moved forward with the discussion in regards to where to start. Things to do: -- Short how-tos starting with setup community repos in YaST, -- Questions to consider, -- A "10 things to do after installing openSUSE" type guide, -- Mike to post a draft of the above on Telegram/ML. -- How to install applications (YaST/zypper/flatpak/snaps) , -- Documentation on OBS/opi and One-click installer from OBS for software, -- A simplified AutoYaST Documentation (Mike and Ivo), -- Above docs can be used by Ivo for creating video tutorials, -- Ivo to come up with something to identify our videos. Logo, intro, style, structure etc., -- Attila to start mapping FAQ items, ================================== More to discuss next time: ================================== -- Workflow and structure, how are we moving forward? -- Take things slow and step by step, -- Settle on structure, formats, wiki template, contribution guideline(?) -- Start curating wiki pages that require updates. Do notify here/Telegram the team which tasks you can take on! -- Br, A. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Meeting #2
by Adrien Glauser 25 Sep '20

25 Sep '20

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Please find my notes below. If you happen to come across this stuff for the first time don't think the ship has sailed already! Do jump on it if you're interested and think you can help. We are super nice, can play Pirates of the Caribbean main theme and know how to debate with you whether Telegram is good or evil. Have a pleasant weekend, Adrien Meeting #2 | 24th of September - ------------------------- Present: Ivo, Attila, Andrès, Thomas - ------------------------- Couldn't make it but we look forward to seeing you next time guys: - - Mike, Stephan, Lana - ------------------------ Discussed & accepted: - - to focus on improving the learning experience for new users coming to openSUSE distros (Leap, Tumbleed, and microOS) - - to start off with reviewing and testing guidelines for installing and deploying Live USB sessions for Windows 10 users (Rufus no longer works) - - to use videos where videos are good (demos of "how nice and easy it is to setup and use the openSUSE distros + live tutorials of how to set up desktop-level efficient workflows and best practice), and complement areas where they're not so good with text and other media (i.e. step by step precise instructions or "very important to note" issues) - - to consolidate the current non-technical documentation (i.e. wikis) with already existing contents (consider " https://github.com/cb400f/opensuse-guide.org" deployed at " https://opensuse-guide.org/") should the author be willing to help - - to get inspiration from the Arch Wiki as a quickly editable knowledge base (I am commenting now: probably as far as troubleshooting is concerned, while still focussing on what just works since all the details and technical background will be available from the Arch wiki anyway) - - to seed a "starting" workflow (see Homework below) - ------------------------ Homework: - - Ivo will get back to the group with specific requirements for the video guides - - Andrès and Adrien will start testing creation of Live USB environments from the Windows 10 platform, Tomas will peer-review if necessary - - Attila will reach out to the author of "opensuse-guide.org" - - Attila will cook up a nice workflow for the group to use, so that all tasks can be taken up, synced up and shared with minimal overhead or duplication - - Adrien will draft a letter / message to the community (to sync up with the other tasks above) to get more help where needed - ------------------------ Things to discuss between now and the next meeting: - - When is next meeting happening? - ------------------------ Things to discuss in the next meeting: 1 Check homework This may take the entire session. Other possible subjects to touch on: 2 Decide which tasks could be done for improving the learning experience in the following departments: - -- Charting new territories: Making an easy-to-look-at, 10'000 feet birdview of the openSUSE community to give new users a taste of the openSUSE community and ecosystem - -- Pre-install guide: Helping users see where their use-case fits in the world of openSUSE distros, and think ahead important in-install choices - -- Installer helper: Structure the info given by identifying clear turning points in the installer to help people understand the consequences (partially overlaps with Pre-install guide obviously) - -- Post-install guide: Best practices, workflows, and post-install tips & tricks 3 Structure workflow around these tasks -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEU4ol/0bSQTwqpAkNMy9Aieh+wJwFAl9tpcAACgkQMy9Aieh+ wJy36gf8CEYMQUGy24umdLg+CkzGePUP1i2/wW77WwphUXXTiiApaL55G5+h/AVF G4+3Cnbc0EVbvSd8b01erfYcP4Mqq2mnOOZZHfa2JyMtFaBxKYI9+aw4q3rMcBbE kZRClsvhm/DaV4O7vYoeyJiLY0THj2/W5e3ai0nA+vYqgbdueQITzYJFnkwUbupp cOJLDrXBPbd9kSDC3LGgAou0QKA72hvXpS0GBOePdPxOZGNXorGn9tsaAxoOHOcP 2ijflrV0KlQ0mfGZp0j5fBjIO/FcBydFSs1fB4rk/strbzo8kgq9h7htmYqDmzu2 mhbdZeGD7XRG5892JaYJKpYintKfow== =dA/L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Docs Meeting - Thursday 24 Sep, 1800 UTC
by Lana Brindley 23 Sep '20

23 Sep '20

Hi everyone, A second meeting is now scheduled at a twelve-hour offset from the first, on Thursday 24 Sept at 1800 UTC at https://meet.opensuse.org/opensuse-docs. To make offset meetings like this work without too much of a disconnect between them, I've successfully used a rolling agenda in the past, so let's give it a try. With that in mind, I have seeded the agenda at https://en.opensuse.org/Documentation:Meetings with the same agenda we used last time. Feel free to add items that you want to discuss, which will then be picked up in the next 0600 meeting, next week. I won't be attending the 1800 meeting, as it's at 4am for me, so if someone can take notes and distribute, that would be great. In the meantime, feel free to come along to the Telegram group: https://t.me/opensuse_docs Lana -- Lana Brindley @Loquacities Technical Writer - SUSE Manager "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Re: Meeting 1 moving on to 2
by Lana Brindley 23 Sep '20

23 Sep '20

Hi Adrien, Thanks for these notes! Responses inline ... On 17/09/2020 17:46, Adrien Glauser wrote: > Heya folks, > > was nice discussing face to face! Eager for more though, as I think we have barely scratched the surface of what there is to do :) > > About that, I dig Frank's brainstorming idea. Perhaps each of us could write on the wiki page (first meeting, talk section) the main priorities from their opinion? For example, is it refreshing the wiki in particular? Or making key issues from the official doc easier to access and in a form that is more pleasant to newcomers? Or making non-just-textual guides for people interested in openSUSE? Or something else? Yes, I think we can do this on the wiki. I've just put the minutes up from the meeting, with a link to the discussion page: https://en.opensuse.org/Talk:Documentation:Meetings#Brainstorming > > Not I am going to be brutally honest: I know I am much more efficient if meetings try to do one of these things: > > 1) explaining a technical or complex issue that demands quite a bit of attention to details > 2) debating a specific question, i.e. should we do X? > 3) planning something, i.e. who's gonna do X and how? > > In other words I dig meetings that try to address a specific matter, either by zooming in on it or by breaking it down into several closed questions. > > Of course it's just a first meeting, no big deal and no pressure, I think there is a good mindset and I am pretty sure we can make something very good out of it. But it would be delightful if we could try to work stuff a bit ahead of meetings so that we can build on it when we meet :P Absolutely agree, and it's the reason we need to ensure we let people know that meetings are coming up, and to call for agenda items. Another thing I was thinking was that if we're going to have alternating timezone meetings, we will need to ensure the agenda rolls with the meetings: so it's one agenda across two meetings. This will help prevent us from having people in one tz working on one set of things, and people in the other tz working on something different. I'll sort this out when I arrange the upcoming meetings. > > Also I sense there are two perspectives on what we are trying to do: the "insider's" perspective on the doc / wiki / platform ("How to make the best out of the stuff we already have?"). This is a totally valid perspective. You guys have years of experience, while I've been using openSUSE for a couple of months only. > > But there is also another perspective, which is more like the one I was feeling from Attila's and Ivo's messages, which is: "Imagine you're about to install an openSUSE distro for the first time in your life. What can the tech and doc guys from the distro make life easy for you?" > > There will be some point where the two perspectives will meet, obviously. Still they are different paths, with different questions and tools. I really think we should clarify what path people want to go. Practically this means we can organize ourselves in smaller teams (1 for each path) or all prioritize one path over the other temporarily. I don't see these two things as being opposed in any way, we really shouldn't have one without the other. After all, it's no good having a great set of beginner resources without having a platform to host them on. I also think that while this needs to be a community effort primarily, it's super important that we have representation within SUSE, too, because we need to be able to interface with their work, processes, and resources. > > It's just my 2 cents. I am not trying to frame the whole project within my own subjective perspective, just trying to see how we can sync up on this. > > Best and see you soon, > > Adrien > > PS: Mail owner, can you please let this message through? I had to modify it twice to avoid triggering some unknown rule. If this third attempt fails I will need your assistance... I got the message directly, and I'm hoping that replying to the list will send it through. I can't see any way of editing permissions in the mailing list, though, so I'm not sure what rules there might be. I'll see if I can email someone and find out how to administer this list better. Lana -- Lana Brindley @Loquacities Technical Writer - SUSE Manager "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Kickoff Meeting
by Lana Brindley 20 Sep '20

20 Sep '20

Hi everyone, After some discussion here and on Telegram, we have scheduled a kickoff meeting for next Thursday 17 Sept at 0600 UTC at https://meet.opensuse.org/opensuse-docs. Please have a think about what you would like to see in the openSUSE docs and add agenda items to the wiki here: https://en.opensuse.org/Documentation:Meetings In the meantime, feel free to come along to our new Telegram group: https://t.me/opensuse_docs Thanks for the great discussion, can't wait to chat more next week! Lana -- Lana Brindley @Loquacities Technical Writer - SUSE Manager "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-doc] Re: Meeting 1 moving on to 2
by Adrien Glauser 18 Sep '20

18 Sep '20

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Erratum: I meant 1800 UTC as a proposal for the next meeting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEU4ol/0bSQTwqpAkNMy9Aieh+wJwFAl9k4q0ACgkQMy9Aieh+ wJxqvggAujjVFw1rmzqTAGhWa1KCGBaGPEeDkYmlJMbNjQarsmNtY6UsJQn5q37v jrDBZA5bDdzHEa2hhOGPRD9D3OfioPAGYuz7HUwMb52CQRssb2DEVGty3K3AWYeB iBDFsdOkf6Rd57UjphOBqifTF3JZskIUVux9ROFD47b7ar/uJEz3onpyn8cf1nbH EUVTiebe1EvMIy55Jw8aPGpKSIMXbJJkO0EVc54snbTgauMwve7BGFWr6yZIKUo4 u9/avqRj063Y9V1KFswBQOBPG5zp88+9qGFt19vFwUdIAeE/YYtYRFixxrJEsB/D lnYl0tMm2SGYMiBKyrLAEaQkKMU7mg== =b8Ef -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-doc] Would like to contribute
by Adrien Glauser 10 Sep '20

10 Sep '20

Hello, Sorry for jumping on a running train. I participate in the Telegram group Attila mentioned in his first message below. I too think it would be awesome to get future and current openSUSE's users the best doc available. However before anything else perhaps we should clarify something. As I understand it, Attila's main point in his original message was to lower the entry-barrier for new openSUSE users, not to necessarily have the wiki removed and the doc rewritten. If this is correct, then I think I share his goal, as I think the easily accessible yet outdated wiki might intercept or delay users who actually need to get the docs, while not necessarily creating a very enticing experience. Of course every open source project needs active volunteers, and a wiki makes this clear, But I think that the best way to motivate new users is to first offer them information that is relevant to their issues (and we know what issues new users are most likely to run into), and to present it in an enjoyable way. Which leads me to believe that: 1) a first layer of information catering to new users, anticipating their needs and guiding them to better understand their issues, is very valuable 2) the previous condition cannot be met only with static doc (i.e. a manual or handbook in the sense of docs.opensuse.org) because a manual is not enticing to everybody and does not unwrap information in layers relevantly connected to common issues (being linear and not interactive) 3) the current doc is awesome and I think it can stay the way it is because it still performs an important role (i.e. a basic "source of truth" for users who most need it) Do we all agree on this? If so, and if I am understanding Attila's initiative correctly, we'll need more than punctual, spontaneous amendments to the docs. We need to discuss and coordinate to get contents presented in a more perspicuous way. We need a "contents redesign".. What do you think? Best, Adrien ------------------------------------ Hi Lana, Thank you for your help, much appreciated. The repo you linked to seem to create content for doc.opensuse.org instead of the openSUSE wiki (https://en.opensuse.org/Main_Page) or the wiki is being phased out and things are being moved over to doc.opensuse.org? To be honest I much prefer the format of doc.opensuse.org. Removing the wiki might be a good idea or forwarding it to the docs. Definitely missing content, the opening page would require some tuning and an easier way to find it maybe? Hopefully can assist with the work in the very near future after got the technicalities out of the way. Chances are that I'm going to take you up on your offer and disturb you with my questions ;) Attila ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 7:40 AM, Lana Brindley <lbrindley@xxxxxxx> wrote: Hi Attila, This is a common refrain! It is possible to contribute directly to the openSUSE documentation, the repo is here: https://github.com/SUSE/doc-sle Personally, I think it is more valuable to contribute to the docs directly, rather than having great content tucked away on an unused wiki, but I also appreciate that contributing directly to a repo like this can be a little daunting if you are not a trained technical writer. With that in mind, I'm absolutely happy to help you out if you have questions :) Lana On 08/09/2020 23:51, adathor wrote: Hi openSUSE-Doc Team, My name is Attila (adathor). We had a fairly long and interesting conversation yesterday on the official Telegram group in regards to the openSUSE wiki and the potential problems around it due to the lack of contributors. Me and probably a few of us from that group would be able to put in some time and help improving the wiki. Checked the Wiki Team page, but considering that it hasn't been updated since 2018 thought it's best to reach out and educate myself about the current status of the Wiki and where is it that you guys would require the most help. Was also thinking a little about how we could help changing up the opening page of the Wiki with guides for - installing openSUSE [$distro] to help first time users - this could also include a YouTube video -, - adding information on tools like Snapper, Opi, transactional-updates, rebootmgr, helth-checker etc. - Distribution overview, that would include the differences compared to other distros and the benefits of using oS, - Clear contribution options and guide, - FAQ - Links to international communities. Any guidance on how to contribute, what are your priorities and the current status of the Wiki would be much appreciated. A. -- Lana Brindley @Loquacities Technical Writer - SUSE Manager "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxx To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner@xxxxxxxxxxxx -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Would like to contribute
by adathor 09 Sep '20

09 Sep '20

Hi openSUSE-Doc Team, My name is Attila (adathor). We had a fairly long and interesting conversation yesterday on the official Telegram group in regards to the openSUSE wiki and the potential problems around it due to the lack of contributors. Me and probably a few of us from that group would be able to put in some time and help improving the wiki. Checked the Wiki Team page, but considering that it hasn't been updated since 2018 thought it's best to reach out and educate myself about the current status of the Wiki and where is it that you guys would require the most help. Was also thinking a little about how we could help changing up the opening page of the Wiki with guides for - installing openSUSE [$distro] to help first time users - this could also include a YouTube video -, - adding information on tools like Snapper, Opi, transactional-updates, rebootmgr, helth-checker etc. - Distribution overview, that would include the differences compared to other distros and the benefits of using oS, - Clear contribution options and guide, - FAQ - Links to international communities. Any guidance on how to contribute, what are your priorities and the current status of the Wiki would be much appreciated. A. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Any help needed with documentation for the upcoming openSuSE 15.2 release?
by tomas.kuchta.lists＠gmail.com 01 Mar '20

01 Mar '20

Hi, I was browsing openSuSE.org news couple of weeks ago - someone mentioned documentation as priority/deficiency for the project - Maybe, I COULD HELP. I would be happy to help with anything what is needed for/by the community regardless of my personal bias. Quick Introduction: ------------------- I am using and administering SLE, openSuSE for years, since v. 6.x/7.0. I used to run small data center professionally for about 10 years, mainly SES/SLED hosting engineering big data analytic and bunch of (<100) interactive enginners/CAD users. I am: * KDE user at home, GNOME at work * use ansible to configure hosts * use NextCloud/OwnCloud - as a replacement for personal data sinks in Anrdoid * practical, minimalist when it comes to DEs - I do not "enjoy" configuring things I cannot automate+deploy - any DEs, web-browsers, email clients. My interests are in distributed computing - these days it is called cloud native infrastructure/application, engineering data collection, parsing and analysis. I can consistently give 5+ hours a week, more when/as needed. Communication - currently living in EST time zone, home is in PST. To meet in person, I attend LFNW every year, some years SCALE. This year maybe different - depending on covid-19. Please let me know if I can help? Tomas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Re: [opensuse-project] doc.opensuse.org
by Lana Brindley 15 Oct '19

15 Oct '19

(Adding the opensuse docs ML to cc) On 15/10/2019 22:46, Jason Evans wrote: >> if we're building up on the existing documentation contributed by >> SUSE >> folks. > Actually I'm talking about creating new documents and not just putting > in pull requests for the existing docs. For example, besides the quick > start guide that I wrote last spring there isn't much for Kubic. I > think we need a new document build from scratch on how to use it. The repo is open, so if you think a new document is required, then go right ahead. >> I've been looking at Docbook the past few days in order to contribute >> somehow on Container documentation. I think Docbook's fine, >> especially >> >> >> Having part of the documentation written in Docbook and another part >> in >> AsciiDoc leads to the same as having doc.o.o vs wiki.o.o. > Actually the SUSE docs team does that now. Daps natively handles both. > Some people only write in Docbook and some only write in asciidoc. You > can't tell the difference because Daps produces the same output for > both. That is true. If you're editing existing docbook content, then use docbook. Of course, if you want to create a new document, feel free to use asciidoc. The use of asciidoc is still fairly new within the team, so there are fewer guidelines, etc, written down, but that is improving. I have used both languages extensively, so I'm always here to help if you have questions on syntax or usage. > > I think the goal would be to encourage community participation. Docbook > creates an artificial roadblock to that because of it's significantly > higher learning curve. We should want people spending their valuable > time submitting pull requests to help build something not spending > hours trying to find out why their xml isn't working. I agree with you on this. I've worked on a few community docs teams that switched from heavier languages like docbook to markup languages, and there's always a corresponding increase in outside contributions after the change. Thanks for your interest :) Lana -- Lana Brindley @Loquacities Technical Writer - SUSE Manager "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Re: [opensuse-project] openSUSE documentation
by Lana Brindley 11 Oct '19

11 Oct '19

On 07/10/2019 06:43, Mike McCallister wrote: > Ish, > > Back in March, Lana Brindley offered to work on revising/updating the openSUSE docs (https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2019-03/msg00033.html) I also offered to help at that time. She ran into some issues opening communication with the SUSE Docs Team. I don't know where that initiative stands right now, but it's good to know there are others who want to help with openSUSE docs. > Yes, I'm still here, and still interested in getting a group together to work on openSUSE docs. As Frank pointed out, the best place to do that is the doc-sle repo: https://github.com/SUSE/doc-sle While I think it would be ideal to have the opensuse docs in their own repo, it's not technically feasible at this stage. I would definitely advocate for contributing to the docs in the repo rather than the wiki, though, just to avoid silos. The whole point of open source is to give back, and we can't do that if we're contributing in our own sandbox. Happy to help anyone who might like some pointers on using github or docbook. Also, the docs mailing list has been reactivated, so feel free to chat further there (it's in cc). Lana > Another thread on this is on the opensuse-web list. I can't find that link, but it's around the same time. > > Mike McCallister > > On 10/6/2019 5:47 AM, Ish Sookun wrote: >> Folks, >> >> During the openSUSE Asia Summit's community meeting we discussed things >> that should be & can be done. One of those was about the openSUSE >> documentation. >> >> I checked doc.opensuse.org. >> >> I notice that all the documentation are currently copyrighted [1] by >> SUSE. Although the docs are granted GNU Free Documentation License it >> sounds proper to have the content ownership under openSUSE. Such a thing >> should not wait for the creation of a foundation. >> >> It also appears that the documentation workload is currently on the >> shoulders of the SUSE documentation team (only). I would like to help, >> more specifically collaborating with Kubic/MicroOS team to have a >> Container documentation. How should I proceed? >> >> Regards, >> >> Ish Sookun >> >> [1] >> https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/virtualization/book.virt_color_… -- Lana Brindley @Loquacities Technical Writer - SUSE Manager "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-doc] Greetings
by Robin Shepheard 09 Oct '19

09 Oct '19

Hi everyone Just a wish intro. I am looking at helping with documentation for the project if I can. I have been using Linux since the late 90's and used many different flavours for various purposes over the years. I haven't had much chance to contribute during that time but due to my work commitments I shall have more time to do so. I will just be a lurker for a little while as I will need to familiarise myself with docbook and github but hope to be able to help contributing soon. As this is my first venture in a project like this any pointers would be very gratefully received although I am happy to figure stuff out by myself where I can. Oh and if it makes any difference to anyone, I live in the south or the UK and work 4 on 4 off nightshifts so will be around at all sorts of random times Cheers Robin Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

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