[opensuse-doc] Refreshing the openSUSE learning experience
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hello, On behalf of our group of volunteers working with the doc team I wanted to share with you this annoucement. Cheers, Adrien - --- Join our team and help us improve the openSUSE learning experience ! --- For years openSUSE has meant more than one distribution. With the recent addition of Kubic and MicroOS to the Leap & Tumbleweed family, different package sets, release models and workflows can be difficult to keep tabs on. openSUSE's ecosystem is in full blossom, but even jungles sometimes need a clearing. This is why a group of volunteers has taken up the task of improving the learning experience for all users -- regardless of their experience and expertise. For new users, we want to make sure they can identify what best fits their needs, get the right tools and seamlessly take over from the post-installation screen. For experienced users, we want to provide them with detailed documentation that is easy to update, so that their experience and expertise can benefit others. We believe that from engineers to end-users, everyone deserves to have confidence not only in their OS, but in the way they're using it. A chain of trust like this is made of a user-friendly documentation where technical details are balanced with evidence-based good practices. It is with this goal in sight that we are calling the community for more volunteers. We are already set on course but the journey will be quicker -- and funnier -- with you. Any help is welcome, especially for: - - writing, editing and peer-reviewing: We would be delighted to benefit from more knowledgeable people to help us refresh, deepen and harmonize openSUSE's wikis and other documentation platforms - - video editing: Our video staff is looking for people interested in producing video contents and / or willing to script and record video tutorials in English - - testing: We need more people to help us test out already known work- flows and settings on new hardware, see if what used to be recommended still should be. So now you can't say you didn't know. Do reach out and come with us shape the future of the openSUSE learning experience! You can find us on the following platforms: - - Telegram group: https://t.me/opensuse_docs - - IRC bridge: https://matrix.to/#/#docs:opensuse.org - - Discord bridge: https://disboard.org/fr/server/366985425371398146 then Contributing > docs - - mailing list: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-doc/ Last but not least: this is part of a collective effort so we are happy to relay to you that get.opensuse.org -- the future entry-point to the openSUSE web platforms -- is also looking for volunteers. Their goal is to deploy by November and they are still looking for committers to the repo at https://github.com/opensuse/get-o-o as well as translators. Translation tasks can be picked up at http://l10n.opensuse.org. Everyone interested is welcome to get in touch with Stasiek Michalski for details. Looking forward to meeting you! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEU4ol/0bSQTwqpAkNMy9Aieh+wJwFAl+Ec00ACgkQMy9Aieh+ wJyydQf+MhYnipalZG/R7xGGEwCkEGJG39DdO3oaNCM6hjH70xn3GSgNRM8eExvM qcshub2cf8VjCbr37kzKWBRcCMTu0KFNrs8JR758WJKdwVcy3/fm3cAv9kT4CM7d vI+/xJNPMnTR0qfyX4Dzbf/DFUSYd5VVvj3UiRstFWKaqs4kIkNnKa0CkSmmgVDL WnNcZFCKJwaSbPMaeSFAnnTReLosAsF5D4+m03/qVI95lwBp5p/8mIzHLjf3THRO QYBkfigDOIv4pF369DVH4ApdWN/3QLbWbcYP7J7S/k2gwigV59eusuBAQKQRCBKt m5Nq4UprevG3hpawcZ/xq9B6YFbgfg== =s5dF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner@opensuse.org
Hi all, El lun, 12-10-2020 a las 17:16 +0200, Adrien Glauser escribió:
--- Join our team and help us improve the openSUSE learning experience! ---
I think it is a great idea. (I was planning to do youtube videos in Spanish with English/German/Greek subtitles for the same reason, but not only about openSUSE, also for SUSE products. There are still more people that don't know/understand the difference between openSUSE and SUSE, Leap/Tumbleweed/SLE than people not knowing what is Linux. Still sad how even less people know about GNU). I may come late to the party, since the launch seems to be next month, you may have already plan and done a lot of work in a specific direction. But, better late than never. I was my whole life surrounded by non-technical people (family, friends, etc), and while that could give only an incomplete picture of non-technical people, I feel confident enough to say that I understand non-technical people better than most of other technical people who are most of the time surrounded by technical people that just rejoice themselves in their own world vision. Also, the few technical people I was surrounded by, were using Windows or Mac, and they didn't like GNU/Linux because of the way they want/ed to use computers. So, even between technical people, there aren't the same needs. So, I would like to share my thoughts on that.
For new users, we want to make sure they can identify what best fits their needs, get the right tools and seamlessly take over from the post-installation screen.
The approach for non-technical new users and technical new users must be different. They don't have the same mindset. Non-technical people don't install their OS, they buy computers with pre-installed OS. Their entry point is telling them where to get computers with GNU/Linux pre-installed. There is no guarantee that they know a technical person who can install the OS for them. I have seen that most of the time. (That could be an opportinity to get sponsoring form the companies that sell computers with GNU/Linux pre-installed, specially openSUSE: Tuxedo, SlimBook, etc, doing also unboxing and reviews of their products) Also, remember that each time you tell them that they need to learn how to use the console or how the system internally works in order to use it, Apple wins. The server side is not an area for non-technical people, that is why the functional superiority of GNU/Linux and potential improvements have won against Microsoft and the few Apple's intents. You may have hear that Microsoft is loosing the battle against GNU/Linux in the desktop. https://www.zdnet.com/article/open-sources-eric-raymond-windows-10-will -soon-be-just-an-emulation-layer-on-linux-kernel/ And you may think that is the prove of GNU/Linux superiority. But, non- technical users don't care about superiority, they care about usability. The real reason why Microsoft has lost the Desktop is because non- technical people have left workstation and laptops to use Smartphones and tablets. (Microsoft hadn't success on that Market) and then workstation and laptops only have one type of customers that gives money: technical people, and those are splitted between Windows, Mac and GNU/Linux A, GNU/Linux B, GNU/Linux C, etc. So, they are not enough technical customers to sustain Windows desktop (this is why they are focusing on cloud services).
For experienced users, we want to provide them with detailed documentation that is easy to update, so that their experience and expertise can benefit others.
Technical people don't care if they have to install something or not, but they care about how much time they need to get started (getting started guide) and how good the documentation is for the time they want to know more (rereference documentation). I assume that you are technical people and have already suffered bad and incomplete documented software. But, there is also a problem that even technical people overlook: Too much documentation. A example of that is Open Build Service documentation (sorry ;)). There is no quick getting started for OBS, because all the needed information to getting started is spread in the vast, complete and long documention. If you are thinking on the people who were successful using that documentation, think twice. If we want to bring new people, we need to think on those that run away because the documentation didn't work for them. And they will run away if/because there are other choices that offer them what they want/need.
It is with this goal in sight that we are calling the community for more volunteers. - writing, editing and peer-reviewing: We would be delighted to benefit from more knowledgeable people to help us refresh, deepen and harmonize openSUSE's wikis and other documentation platforms
I am sure that there are people with more knowledge, more thecnical experts than me, but I would like to offer my knowledge where I can and most importantly help molding how that valuable technical knowledge can be presented in a easier way for newcomers.
- video editing: Our video staff is looking for people interested in producing video contents and / or willing to script and record video tutorials in English
I also think that the main language should be English for several reasons. I just want to mention that it is a pity how much native Spanish speakers cannot consume content in English. And there are a lot of native Spanish speaker in the world. My expectation is that producing technical content for Spanish speaker could increase the audience/users/customers dramatically. That is why my intention was to create content with Spanish as main language and, because I can, adding English, German and Greek subtitles. So, I would not like to self-record English videos, but because I plan to self-record Spanish videos, maybe they could be included in a Spanish dedicated openSUSE channel.
- testing: We need more people to help us test out already known workflows and settings on new hardware, see if what used to be recommended still should be.
As an idea, workflows can be automated using openQA, so if a workflow stop working, openQA will tell.
So now you can't say you didn't know. Do reach out and come with us shape the future of the openSUSE learning experience! You can find us on the following platforms:
So, hopefully I don't get too late for the approach of how to organize the documentation/tutorials. My proposals would be split in three parts 1. Getting started Contain just enough information to start using the software Contain just enough information to know where to look for the list of available features (reference doc) Should also contain enough information to know where to look for more information about features (reference doc) 2. Reference doc Assumes that the getting started guide was followed Contains a brief description list of features with no deep information. Also contains deep feature documentation 3. Q&A Something https://stackexchange.com/sites# alike (ideally on stackexchange, which already has SEO and is known/used by a majority), where users can get answers about corner cases and where "we" can learn about possible missing or misleading information on the documentation. Avoid ML for non-technical people. In addition to that structure, Create and entry point for non-technical newcomers - Where to get computers with GNU/Linux pre-installed - Non-technical friendly guide/docs (click&go, no terminal, no typed commands, let them decide when they are ready/want to use the terminal, don't scare them to early!)
Last but not least: this is part of a collective effort so we are happy to relay to you that get.opensuse.org -- the future entry-point to the openSUSE web platforms -- is also looking for volunteers. Their goal is to deploy by November and they are still looking for committers to the repo at https://github.com/opensuse/get-o-o as well as translators.
I suppose that would be the right place to put "getting started" guides for each distribution. docs.opensuse.org would be the place to put the reference documentation. And https://stackexchange.com/sites# for the Q&A I hope you find my thoughts helpful. Kind Regards -- Sergio Lindo Mansilla <slindomansilla@suse.com> QA Engineer SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany https://www.suse.com/ (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Dear Sergio, Thanks for reaching out! You've made many interesting points and I won't be able to reply to each of them now (see however my PS for a reply about the target audience). My takeaway from your message is that we would be super happy to benefit for your experience in terms of QA, so I am glad you found us. As you can imagine, right now we are going through the stage of welcoming new people and structuring ourselves around key priorities for refreshing the docs. I have to say this is rather a fast-paced moment of interactions, and I have to admit that the mailing list is probably going to be outpaced by a large margin. So how about you join us on Telegram or Discord or the IRC? All these platforms are bridged as far as our discussion group is concerned. Come and say Hi so that we can make the most of your help! Cheers, Adrien - -- Long post-scriptum about target audience -- - - we want to prioritize new users but questions about pre-installation are outside of the scope of our effort; this means that "new users" is closer to "Linux-aware people willing to spend 10 minutes installing their distro" to "absolute beginners who would prefer not having to pay attention to installing / configuring things to their needs"; - - we want to prioritize new users but we care about knowledge transfer over time, because that's the best way of having a genuine community rather than a giant help desk, and this is why we want the docs to be easy to maintain over time to keep up with the best practices (and not just the descriptive technical information); - - yes people near the "expert category" care mostly about not being slowed down, but thanks to the immense work of the doc team there is already ample documentation for experts; so in the short-run we probably won't have much to contribute to the expert-oriented doc. Le mardi 13 octobre 2020 à 11:47 +0200, sergio a écrit :
Hi all,
El lun, 12-10-2020 a las 17:16 +0200, Adrien Glauser escribió:
--- Join our team and help us improve the openSUSE learning experience! ---
I think it is a great idea. (I was planning to do youtube videos in Spanish with English/German/Greek subtitles for the same reason, but not only about openSUSE, also for SUSE products. There are still more people that don't know/understand the difference between openSUSE and SUSE, Leap/Tumbleweed/SLE than people not knowing what is Linux. Still sad how even less people know about GNU).
I may come late to the party, since the launch seems to be next month, you may have already plan and done a lot of work in a specific direction. But, better late than never.
I was my whole life surrounded by non-technical people (family, friends, etc), and while that could give only an incomplete picture of non-technical people, I feel confident enough to say that I understand non-technical people better than most of other technical people who are most of the time surrounded by technical people that just rejoice themselves in their own world vision. Also, the few technical people I was surrounded by, were using Windows or Mac, and they didn't like GNU/Linux because of the way they want/ed to use computers. So, even between technical people, there aren't the same needs.
So, I would like to share my thoughts on that.
For new users, we want to make sure they can identify what best fits their needs, get the right tools and seamlessly take over from the post-installation screen.
The approach for non-technical new users and technical new users must be different. They don't have the same mindset.
Non-technical people don't install their OS, they buy computers with pre-installed OS. Their entry point is telling them where to get computers with GNU/Linux pre-installed. There is no guarantee that they know a technical person who can install the OS for them. I have seen that most of the time. (That could be an opportinity to get sponsoring form the companies that sell computers with GNU/Linux pre-installed, specially openSUSE: Tuxedo, SlimBook, etc, doing also unboxing and reviews of their products) Also, remember that each time you tell them that they need to learn how to use the console or how the system internally works in order to use it, Apple wins.
The server side is not an area for non-technical people, that is why the functional superiority of GNU/Linux and potential improvements have won against Microsoft and the few Apple's intents. You may have hear that Microsoft is loosing the battle against GNU/Linux in the desktop. https://www.zdnet.com/article/open-sources-eric-raymond-windows-10-will -soon-be-just-an-emulation-layer-on-linux-kernel/ And you may think that is the prove of GNU/Linux superiority. But, non- technical users don't care about superiority, they care about usability. The real reason why Microsoft has lost the Desktop is because non- technical people have left workstation and laptops to use Smartphones and tablets. (Microsoft hadn't success on that Market) and then workstation and laptops only have one type of customers that gives money: technical people, and those are splitted between Windows, Mac and GNU/Linux A, GNU/Linux B, GNU/Linux C, etc. So, they are not enough technical customers to sustain Windows desktop (this is why they are focusing on cloud services).
For experienced users, we want to provide them with detailed documentation that is easy to update, so that their experience and expertise can benefit others.
Technical people don't care if they have to install something or not, but they care about how much time they need to get started (getting started guide) and how good the documentation is for the time they want to know more (rereference documentation). I assume that you are technical people and have already suffered bad and incomplete documented software. But, there is also a problem that even technical people overlook: Too much documentation. A example of that is Open Build Service documentation (sorry ;)). There is no quick getting started for OBS, because all the needed information to getting started is spread in the vast, complete and long documention. If you are thinking on the people who were successful using that documentation, think twice. If we want to bring new people, we need to think on those that run away because the documentation didn't work for them. And they will run away if/because there are other choices that offer them what they want/need.
It is with this goal in sight that we are calling the community for more volunteers. - writing, editing and peer-reviewing: We would be delighted to benefit from more knowledgeable people to help us refresh, deepen and harmonize openSUSE's wikis and other documentation platforms
I am sure that there are people with more knowledge, more thecnical experts than me, but I would like to offer my knowledge where I can and most importantly help molding how that valuable technical knowledge can be presented in a easier way for newcomers.
- video editing: Our video staff is looking for people interested in producing video contents and / or willing to script and record video tutorials in English
I also think that the main language should be English for several reasons.
I just want to mention that it is a pity how much native Spanish speakers cannot consume content in English. And there are a lot of native Spanish speaker in the world. My expectation is that producing technical content for Spanish speaker could increase the audience/users/customers dramatically. That is why my intention was to create content with Spanish as main language and, because I can, adding English, German and Greek subtitles. So, I would not like to self-record English videos, but because I plan to self-record Spanish videos, maybe they could be included in a Spanish dedicated openSUSE channel.
- testing: We need more people to help us test out already known workflows and settings on new hardware, see if what used to be recommended still should be.
As an idea, workflows can be automated using openQA, so if a workflow stop working, openQA will tell.
So now you can't say you didn't know. Do reach out and come with us shape the future of the openSUSE learning experience! You can find us on the following platforms:
So, hopefully I don't get too late for the approach of how to organize the documentation/tutorials.
My proposals would be split in three parts
1. Getting started Contain just enough information to start using the software Contain just enough information to know where to look for the list of available features (reference doc) Should also contain enough information to know where to look for more information about features (reference doc)
2. Reference doc Assumes that the getting started guide was followed Contains a brief description list of features with no deep information. Also contains deep feature documentation
3. Q&A Something https://stackexchange.com/sites# alike (ideally on stackexchange, which already has SEO and is known/used by a majority), where users can get answers about corner cases and where "we" can learn about possible missing or misleading information on the documentation. Avoid ML for non-technical people.
In addition to that structure,
Create and entry point for non-technical newcomers - Where to get computers with GNU/Linux pre-installed - Non-technical friendly guide/docs (click&go, no terminal, no typed commands, let them decide when they are ready/want to use the terminal, don't scare them to early!)
Last but not least: this is part of a collective effort so we are happy to relay to you that get.opensuse.org -- the future entry- point to the openSUSE web platforms -- is also looking for volunteers. Their goal is to deploy by November and they are still looking for committers to the repo at https://github.com/opensuse/get-o-o as well as translators.
I suppose that would be the right place to put "getting started" guides for each distribution.
docs.opensuse.org would be the place to put the reference documentation. And https://stackexchange.com/sites# for the Q&A
I hope you find my thoughts helpful.
Kind Regards -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEU4ol/0bSQTwqpAkNMy9Aieh+wJwFAl+Fng0ACgkQMy9Aieh+ wJwAqAgAjEA0mWRdt2GRoGYPM62DL4VgkP/DfE0MUMeO+ExxCCVV8H2lJixp/4MC B44z5bYOqTeuNOjjiPFH2DEi7DxNEIwOfmwuOO5scAaIstI56UT2K6uCRsPpN5Go /EKJHcijTOw1sLdcM9P6/BQaDL34n7p1xlkbJxKiUbmpNo+tfgWDWir818+H+RwI 9QTeiKXRW/ysBfipoEQIiUD6uvabc9PLbQ4wpRHmlSc9qoh4XlDg+qhvcrRHVD// 0Yekvm8QT+Q9R7em+6lOidBTcOyTE4VmFZW52OTujtsPNWJWpEVwZHka16XD3hZJ jRTslQMTVw8grYnB/DQcY3cO9JoIFQ== =OfGV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner@opensuse.org
participants (2)
-
Adrien Glauser -
sergio