November 2004 - openSUSE AMD64 - openSUSE Mailing Lists

A warning to anyone expecting "support" from suse.com
by Marshall Kiam-Laine 25 Nov '04

25 Nov '04

***splendid piece of WRIGGLING time-wasting Sandra ! i can see you are highly-trained in wriggling and TIME WASTING, and you think you can "speak english" ! so get your dictionary out then and look up "wriggling" and "time-wasting" please. >Hartmut Meyer and me, Sandra Wiegratz located in Bremen To Novell HQ usa. ________________ >***dear sirs, i would like to lodge a very strong > complaint about the "service / support" NOT being > given by suse.com after i bought your > Professional 9.2 version in UK. > ***the box clearly says "free installation support" > yet those guys REFUSE to help with almost everything i have asked them. > my previous ver 9.0 was running ok, > but when replaced with 9.2, it would not connect to > the internet, even tho Yast showed the onboard > ethernet (and wireless) "already configured ok". >we do not cover network configuration and configuration of wlan cards. ***basic network config should be AUTOMATIC, as it was with ver 9.0 the cable modem FIRMWARE is ALREADY programmed, and the Router Setup is ALREADY done, and WLAN is *not* being used at the moment. SO (still with me sandra ?), that ONLY leaves the signal from the Router on a RJ45 into the mobo ethernet socket. Do you call that PPP or PPPoE ? SO that should be detected automatically by DHCP ? >We regret that we can not help with this issues for free. ***and your colleague ALSO said that "even if i pay him - he cant guarantee to get it working" ! >I've already tried to explain why we can not cover everything ***nobody asks for "everything", just get the BASIC FUNCTIONS working, and it is totally basic that an OS cant control a mobo, unless the DRIVERS etc are working. i already KNOW that the NICS work, since the same machine is ok on XPro. >If you have questions on this nevertheless, please don't hesitate to ask. ***well i AM "asking" : does 9.2 support the ONBOARD ethernet of ABIT KV8PRO ? if not, that could be the problem couldnt it ? > ***some of those personnel have thick spanish accents > and can hardly be understood for one thing, but > the main problem is they think that "installation" only > means telling you how to put the CD in the slot and > switch on - are they complete idiots ? >I don't see a reason that hinders a person doesn't speaking native english, >to provide technical support in english language. ***well here is "the reason" then Sandra - are you reading carefully ? if i (or anyonelse) CANNOT understand the words that your colleagues are babbling on the phone, - then how can we respond ? Obviously many foreigners can WRITE better than they pronounce, but as far as the PHONE is concerned, you had better put people on the switchboard who have much better Accents - or else you are just WASTING TIME arent you ? do you study "Logic" in Bremen as well ? > if you buy a car and the dealer sends it round your > house, but it wont even start, what would you say ? > if he replied "ah but we only said we would show you > where to put the ignition key, but NOT that it would > work ! what would you say ? > > if you then spent HOURS on the phone trying to get some > response out of the car company - what would you say ? >This is something different, since you get a guarantee for this whole car by the dealer. >We as distributor don't offer such a functionality guarantee, ***seems to me you dont offer ANYTHING beyond "please look for the CD slot - stick it in, and dont bother calling us again" ! that is NOT called "installation" in english language sandra. if you were distributing for no charge, then ok - nothing for me to complain about, but i BOUGHT the program as a FUNCTIONAL ITEM under english "Sale of Goods Act". and dont forget, i am NOT saying it should "ALL work perfectly", only that its basic installation should be supported, and internet IS as "basic" as one can get isnt it ***so we are not dealing just with foreign "accents" but also with mis-interpretation of the words. "free installation support" MEANS (in english) that the program should AT LEAST be got "up and running", if it cant even get on the net, then it cant download Patches and fixes can it. > ***i have seen comments from other buyers on the net > saying the same thing that suse.com "support" is next > to useless. In UK that behaviour is illegal : > a product must perform as sold, and > "free installation support" means JUST THAT. >Legality has been checked, ***you are LYING. you have not checked the Sale of Good Act. >there is no problem known with our support offer. ***yes there is - you are reading one right NOW - but your EGO wont admit it. ok with that word "ego" ? >The restriction of this support offer is printed on the right hand side of the box. ***the leaflet in the box clearly says "free installation support" in BIG LETTERS. and "setup of internet access on a dsl-based PPP supported NIC So as i explained above in "topology", there *IS* a PPP ethernet stream going into Abit KV8pro and Linux - but 9.2 is not handling it properly. Maybe needs a driver ? and dont bother babbling to me about "modems and routers" again, they are ALREADY setup (by XP) and the PPPoE *is* going into the rj45. > connection to internet is FUNDAMENTAL to "installation" > and not to be regarded as anything "special" nor > "complicated" requiring "additional paid support" >If you would use a PCI card, then help to getting online would be covered by free installation support. ***there is NO functional difference between a pci chip and an onboard chip. you seem to have a big problem understanding that ? >i couldnt even get Root control over Permissions until >a "repair" install had been done, and suse.com didnt >even think that was anything to do with them ! >the mobo may need a different driver from that provided >in Suse, but they wont say how that is supposed to be loaded either. > ***please make sure they get reminded of their > obligations under UK law, and that they must at least > be able to speak english, thank you :) >I don't know of any engineers on the UK or US installation support phone line, >that doesn't know any english. ***there you go AGAIN sandra STRUGGLING to MIS-INTERPRET i didnt say they dont "know" any english, i said if they cant pronounce their words clearly enough to be understood, then they are WASTING TIME speaking arent they ? This is not a rhetorical question - answer it please. >Finally, I'd like to thank you for your feedback. ***and when am i going to be able to thank you for providing basic support ? >Yours sincerely, >Sandra Wiegratz, Assistant Manager Support Center Bremen, Germany ***since you are "sincere", then go back thru this mail and answer more accurately please :) and one day if you ever come to Oxford University, i may give you a "pass" in english ! Phone: +44 845 025 0010 +1 800 796 3700 WWW: http://www.suse.de/en/private/support/inst_support Mail: Support SUSE LINUX GmbH <support(a)suse.de> International advanced support offers available at: http://www.suse.de/en/private/support/private_support

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JVM experiences
by Aaron Macks 25 Nov '04

25 Nov '04

What are peoples experiences running 64bit JVM's under SuSE? We are getting some Opteron systems and trying to figure out what JVM to use, Sun's or one of the others thanks Aaron ____________________________________________ Aaron Macks amacks(a)techtarget.com TechTarget PGP keyid: FBE946C5 117 Kendrick St, Suite 800 Phone: (781) 657-1519 Needham, MA 02494 Fax: (781) 657-1100

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32-bit drivers?
by robin damion 25 Nov '04

25 Nov '04

This is probably a silly question but, since I'm rather a newbie in most areas involved, I feel entitled to ask a few silly questions... In the absense (as far as I'm aware) of a 64-bit driver for my graphics card (Radeon X800 Pro), can I use a 32-bit driver? Robin. --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!

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RE: [suse-amd64] A warning to anyone expecting "support" from suse.com
by Black, Alain 25 Nov '04

25 Nov '04

Link to the SUSE LINUX Hardware Database: http://cdb.suse.de/?LANG=en_UK Support Overview: http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/support/support_overvie w.html Hope this helps a little with the problems. -Alain. -----Original Message----- From: Marshall Kiam-Laine [mailto:kamanism@ntlworld.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 12:47 PM To: Suse 64 newsList Subject: [suse-amd64] A warning to anyone expecting "support" from suse.com ***splendid piece of WRIGGLING time-wasting Sandra ! i can see you are highly-trained in wriggling and TIME WASTING, and you think you can "speak english" ! so get your dictionary out then and look up "wriggling" and "time-wasting" please. >Hartmut Meyer and me, Sandra Wiegratz located in Bremen To Novell HQ usa. ________________ >***dear sirs, i would like to lodge a very strong > complaint about the "service / support" NOT being > given by suse.com after i bought your > Professional 9.2 version in UK. > ***the box clearly says "free installation support" > yet those guys REFUSE to help with almost everything i have asked them. > my previous ver 9.0 was running ok, > but when replaced with 9.2, it would not connect to > the internet, even tho Yast showed the onboard > ethernet (and wireless) "already configured ok". >we do not cover network configuration and configuration of wlan cards. ***basic network config should be AUTOMATIC, as it was with ver 9.0 the cable modem FIRMWARE is ALREADY programmed, and the Router Setup is ALREADY done, and WLAN is *not* being used at the moment. SO (still with me sandra ?), that ONLY leaves the signal from the Router on a RJ45 into the mobo ethernet socket. Do you call that PPP or PPPoE ? SO that should be detected automatically by DHCP ? >We regret that we can not help with this issues for free. ***and your colleague ALSO said that "even if i pay him - he cant guarantee to get it working" ! >I've already tried to explain why we can not cover everything ***nobody asks for "everything", just get the BASIC FUNCTIONS working, and it is totally basic that an OS cant control a mobo, unless the DRIVERS etc are working. i already KNOW that the NICS work, since the same machine is ok on XPro. >If you have questions on this nevertheless, please don't hesitate to ask. ***well i AM "asking" : does 9.2 support the ONBOARD ethernet of ABIT KV8PRO ? if not, that could be the problem couldnt it ? > ***some of those personnel have thick spanish accents > and can hardly be understood for one thing, but > the main problem is they think that "installation" only > means telling you how to put the CD in the slot and > switch on - are they complete idiots ? >I don't see a reason that hinders a person doesn't speaking native english, >to provide technical support in english language. ***well here is "the reason" then Sandra - are you reading carefully ? if i (or anyonelse) CANNOT understand the words that your colleagues are babbling on the phone, - then how can we respond ? Obviously many foreigners can WRITE better than they pronounce, but as far as the PHONE is concerned, you had better put people on the switchboard who have much better Accents - or else you are just WASTING TIME arent you ? do you study "Logic" in Bremen as well ? > if you buy a car and the dealer sends it round your > house, but it wont even start, what would you say ? > if he replied "ah but we only said we would show you > where to put the ignition key, but NOT that it would > work ! what would you say ? > > if you then spent HOURS on the phone trying to get some > response out of the car company - what would you say ? >This is something different, since you get a guarantee for this whole car by the dealer. >We as distributor don't offer such a functionality guarantee, ***seems to me you dont offer ANYTHING beyond "please look for the CD slot - stick it in, and dont bother calling us again" ! that is NOT called "installation" in english language sandra. if you were distributing for no charge, then ok - nothing for me to complain about, but i BOUGHT the program as a FUNCTIONAL ITEM under english "Sale of Goods Act". and dont forget, i am NOT saying it should "ALL work perfectly", only that its basic installation should be supported, and internet IS as "basic" as one can get isnt it ***so we are not dealing just with foreign "accents" but also with mis-interpretation of the words. "free installation support" MEANS (in english) that the program should AT LEAST be got "up and running", if it cant even get on the net, then it cant download Patches and fixes can it. > ***i have seen comments from other buyers on the net > saying the same thing that suse.com "support" is next > to useless. In UK that behaviour is illegal : > a product must perform as sold, and > "free installation support" means JUST THAT. >Legality has been checked, ***you are LYING. you have not checked the Sale of Good Act. >there is no problem known with our support offer. ***yes there is - you are reading one right NOW - but your EGO wont admit it. ok with that word "ego" ? >The restriction of this support offer is printed on the right hand side of the box. ***the leaflet in the box clearly says "free installation support" in BIG LETTERS. and "setup of internet access on a dsl-based PPP supported NIC So as i explained above in "topology", there *IS* a PPP ethernet stream going into Abit KV8pro and Linux - but 9.2 is not handling it properly. Maybe needs a driver ? and dont bother babbling to me about "modems and routers" again, they are ALREADY setup (by XP) and the PPPoE *is* going into the rj45. > connection to internet is FUNDAMENTAL to "installation" > and not to be regarded as anything "special" nor > "complicated" requiring "additional paid support" >If you would use a PCI card, then help to getting online would be covered by free installation support. ***there is NO functional difference between a pci chip and an onboard chip. you seem to have a big problem understanding that ? >i couldnt even get Root control over Permissions until >a "repair" install had been done, and suse.com didnt >even think that was anything to do with them ! >the mobo may need a different driver from that provided >in Suse, but they wont say how that is supposed to be loaded either. > ***please make sure they get reminded of their > obligations under UK law, and that they must at least > be able to speak english, thank you :) >I don't know of any engineers on the UK or US installation support phone line, >that doesn't know any english. ***there you go AGAIN sandra STRUGGLING to MIS-INTERPRET i didnt say they dont "know" any english, i said if they cant pronounce their words clearly enough to be understood, then they are WASTING TIME speaking arent they ? This is not a rhetorical question - answer it please. >Finally, I'd like to thank you for your feedback. ***and when am i going to be able to thank you for providing basic support ? >Yours sincerely, >Sandra Wiegratz, Assistant Manager Support Center Bremen, Germany ***since you are "sincere", then go back thru this mail and answer more accurately please :) and one day if you ever come to Oxford University, i may give you a "pass" in english ! Phone: +44 845 025 0010 +1 800 796 3700 WWW: http://www.suse.de/en/private/support/inst_support Mail: Support SUSE LINUX GmbH <support(a)suse.de> International advanced support offers available at: http://www.suse.de/en/private/support/private_support

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Re: Opteron Problem (Suse Mailingliste suse-amd64)
by Andreas Wahlert 25 Nov '04

25 Nov '04

Katz Martin (DS/P-EVD3) * wrote: > Hi, > > ich habe hier die gleiche Maschine stehen (allerdings Opteron 248): > Unter Suse 9.2 wird beim Installieren ein falscher Eintrag für die > Kernelparamter in die Konfiguration des bootloaders eingetragen: > > bei "failsave" wird "maxcpu = 0" gesetzt, was zum sofortigen Absturz > beim smp-kernel führt. der default-kernel ist davon nicht betroffen. > > beim "normalen" smp-kernel Eintrag hilft dann "acpi=off" > > Unter SuSE 9.1, kernel-Version 2.6.5-7.111-smp läuft die Maschine > stabil. (nvidia-Treiber build 6629) > > Ich hoffe, das hilft weiter. > > Grüße > Martin Katz > > > > > Dr. Martin Katz > DS/P-EVD3 Robert Bosch GmbH > Tel.: +49 711 8 11-3 3509 Wernerstrasse 51 > Fax : +49 711 8 11-31900 70469 Stuttgart > > Hmmm, no way. we have several maschine manufactured in april. These maschines running fine. Only the new maschine, manufactured in october, crashes. There are a new Thyan board.

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resmgr: server response code 200
by rkimber＠ntlworld.com 25 Nov '04

25 Nov '04

What does: resmgr: server response code 200 mean? -- Richard Kimber http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/

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Re: [suse-amd64] A warning to anyone expecting "support" from suse.com
by Franz Mach 25 Nov '04

25 Nov '04

just received the best and i hope last one : --- Marshall Kiam-Laine <kamanism(a)ntlworld.com> schrieb: > ***i already tried that arsehole. > since you are good at spanish, > ill put that word in spanish for you : > ARSEHOLE. > > "Be quiet idiot. go back to your house and "imbécil" isn't "idiot" in english, it defines a person that isn't acting rationally and allways needs help, nothing else ... > read the documentation > included, which contains all the information > to resolve your problem. > i am referring to your problems with linux, > whereas your problems > of education seem irresoluble" "educación" in this sentence means "upbringing", ok, never heard this but the dictionary says this > > >sorry, my english isn't good enough to tell you > that > ***well as you see, i CAN read spanish, which is a > lot more education > than you incompetent germans have to solve > linux driver problems. > > do you want me to put that in german for you ? > (never mind im too busy with "makefile" on the > other machine, bye :) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franz Mach" <franzmach(a)yahoo.de> > To: "Marshall Kiam-Laine" <kamanism(a)ntlworld.com>; > "Suse 64 newsList" > <suse-amd64(a)suse.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 8:41 AM > Subject: Re: [suse-amd64] A warning to anyone > expecting "support" > fromsuse.com > > > >i also couldn't ping my network after upgrading to > 9.2 > > but i solved this within 3 minutes : > > turn off the firewall and try pinging your router > > again ! > > as you like spanish accent some additional > > information; > > to use your own words "so get your dictionary out > then > > and look up the words please." > > > > ¡Cállate imbécil vete a tu casa y lee la > documentación > > incluida que contiene toda la información para > > resolver el problema! Me refiero a tu problema con > > Linux, tus problemas de educación me parecen > > insolubles. > > > > > --- Marshall Kiam-Laine <kamanism(a)ntlworld.com> > > schrieb: > >> ***splendid piece of WRIGGLING time-wasting > Sandra > >> ! > >> i can see you are highly-trained in wriggling > >> and TIME WASTING, > >> and you think you can "speak english" ! > >> so get your dictionary out then and look up > >> "wriggling" and "time-wasting" please. > >> > >> >Hartmut Meyer and me, Sandra Wiegratz located > in > >> Bremen > >> > >> To Novell HQ usa. > >> ________________ ___________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - Jetzt mit 100MB Speicher kostenlos - Hier anmelden: http://mail.yahoo.de

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Re: [suse-amd64] Dont expect any "support" from suse.com !
by Marshall Kiam-Laine 25 Nov '04

25 Nov '04

----- Original Message ----- From: Jac Kersing To: Marshall Kiam-Laine Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [suse-amd64] Dont expect any "support" from suse.com ! >Hmmm, I had some trouble after upgrading to 9.1 earlier this year and >found the support given by Suse employees exceptionally good. ***thats strange, they told me that "upgrading from 9.1 to 9.2" was NOT "free support" and certainly doesnt cover internet connection either. so what DO they cover then ? if you bought a car, and they delivered it with no wheels, would you complain ? >Sandra : I think you OWE her an apology. ***when she provides some of the "we will gladly help with installation", then i may consider giving her a kiss, - providing shes not one of those muscular german railway workers who eat saurkraut and spit on the tracks. . ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Marshall Kiam-Laine wrote: > >>we will not communicate on such a level with you. > ***well thats not a surprise, since so far "your company" have > refused to communicate on ANY level, so what difference has occured ? > you have spent a LOT (LOT) of time telling me what you WONT do, > but almost NO time on a few (probably simple) solutions. > So for a "manager" you have failed AGAIN, just wasting time ..... > > >Please take a course in politeness and Netiquett before contacting us again. > ***what would be the point of that ? since you would STILL refuse to be of any help ? > (dont forget i WAS as polite as anyonelse at the BEGINNING, > its only NOW that you have demonstrated your STUBBORN ignorance > that i Reflect your own covert mannerisms). you know what "covert" means ? > > AND even if i pay for your "Advanced Support", you still say > "we will take the money but NOT guarantee to be of any use" > is your "company" typical of german software support ? > > AND after experiencing the appalling low level of your general intelligences, > who would expect you to be able to solve anything anyway ? > after all youre "only a distributor" as you just told me. > > ***so you are tricking people into buying your OS on the pretence of > being helpful - when you simply are not. > Your leaflet says "we will gladly provide assistance", > so why are you not "glad" to hear from ME then sandra ? > > >If you are angry about our support conditions, it is no reason to blame me or our company. > ***you pretended to be "sincere" didnt you. > so why havent you answered the last mail PROPERLY ? > > >I don't mind about my english, since I am not a native speaker too. > ***your #written# english is perfectly good enough sandra, > but you have a big EGO problem, in that you wont admit that anyone other than you could be right. > Its the SPOKEN english of your spanish guys on the PHONE that is hopeless. > dont you know the difference between writing and speaking yet ? > "blurp it in de blobby" apparently meant "put it in the floppy". > > >We will not lay-off any of our staff, just because they are not native speakers in english. > ***you dont have to be a native speaker, but you DO have to be understandable, > and NOT full of incessant egotistic arguments. > do you know what "incessant" means ? > > >That would be very ignorant. > ***well you already are, so again whats the difference ? > > Yours sincerely, Sandra Wiegratz > ***ah, youre being "sincere" again, but STILL not being of any USE ! > you remind me of Hitler, he was "sincere" wasnt he. > > now be a good girl, and go back to the last mail and answer it PROPERLY, > sentence by sentence. thank you. > > --- Jac Kersing Technical Consultant The-Box Development j.kersing(a)the-box.com http://www.the-box.com

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RE: [suse-amd64] A warning to anyone expecting "support" from sus e.com
by James D. Parra 25 Nov '04

25 Nov '04

Can someone contact the administrator of this list to ban this clown. He obviously is clueless to the etiquette of the list. Besides, if you have a problem with SuSE, cry to them not to this list. You'll get no sympathy here. Maybe Linux is not the OS for you. Crawl back to MS and cry to them about how terrible SuSE is and how unhelpful the Open Source Community is. I am sure they'll take you back, for a price. Furthermore, stop whining. It is annoying in any language. James -----Original Message----- From: Marshall Kiam-Laine [mailto:kamanism@ntlworld.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 3:47 PM To: Suse 64 newsList; Jac Kersing Subject: Re: [suse-amd64] A warning to anyone expecting "support" from suse.com >As your rants are non-technical they are considered OT on a technical mail list. ***are you some Dutch twat that cant understand english as well ? did you not Notice i gave a LOT of "technical" details about the ABIT problem ? are you Blind ? or just *SO* intent on Adding to the USELESSNESS of this mailing list, that you didnt notice what the real ESSENCE of these "rants" are ? ok with that word "essence" Jan ?? >Would you like a future employer .... ***i am the employer jan, and MY employees do not answer simple questions with yards of gibberish like a pack of idiots. clearly the only "education" you ever got was in how to write a complete page of useless comments. >Wouldn't it be embarrasing to have to explain ***no more than it must be embarrassing for YOU claiming to be a "technical consultant" ! when you clearly know nothing about Linux. why are you on this list at all ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jac Kersing To: Marshall Kiam-Laine Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 10:42 PM Subject: Re: [suse-amd64] A warning to anyone expecting "support" from suse.com On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Marshall Kiam-Laine wrote: > ***what "multiple postings" are you talking about ? He might be refering to the TWO messages you have sent... >>As a foreigner I understand english well enough to know you are >EXTREMELY abusive on a public, technical list. >and what is an OT list ? i am not one of you "IT Professionals", >OT normally stands for Off Topic when refering to e-mail/mail lists. > merely someone who bought something expecting it to work. It must be disappointing if it does not work. I would suggest returning the product to your supplier as it does not fullfill your expectations. The problems getting it to work are no excuse for your rude behaviour on the list. You might want to consider that messages posted on the Internet will not go away for a long long time. Would you like a future employer in say 10 years time to read the messages you have been posting to the public today?? Wouldn't it be embarrasing to have to explain them??? Jac Kersing Technical Consultant The-Box Development j.kersing(a)the-box.com http://www.the-box.com

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Re: [suse-amd64] A warning to anyone expecting "support" from suse.com
by Marshall Kiam-Laine 25 Nov '04

25 Nov '04

>As your rants are non-technical they are considered OT on a technical mail list. ***are you some Dutch twat that cant understand english as well ? did you not Notice i gave a LOT of "technical" details about the ABIT problem ? are you Blind ? or just *SO* intent on Adding to the USELESSNESS of this mailing list, that you didnt notice what the real ESSENCE of these "rants" are ? ok with that word "essence" Jan ?? >Would you like a future employer .... ***i am the employer jan, and MY employees do not answer simple questions with yards of gibberish like a pack of idiots. clearly the only "education" you ever got was in how to write a complete page of useless comments. >Wouldn't it be embarrasing to have to explain ***no more than it must be embarrassing for YOU claiming to be a "technical consultant" ! when you clearly know nothing about Linux. why are you on this list at all ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jac Kersing To: Marshall Kiam-Laine Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 10:42 PM Subject: Re: [suse-amd64] A warning to anyone expecting "support" from suse.com On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Marshall Kiam-Laine wrote: > ***what "multiple postings" are you talking about ? He might be refering to the TWO messages you have sent... >>As a foreigner I understand english well enough to know you are >EXTREMELY abusive on a public, technical list. >and what is an OT list ? i am not one of you "IT Professionals", >OT normally stands for Off Topic when refering to e-mail/mail lists. > merely someone who bought something expecting it to work. It must be disappointing if it does not work. I would suggest returning the product to your supplier as it does not fullfill your expectations. The problems getting it to work are no excuse for your rude behaviour on the list. You might want to consider that messages posted on the Internet will not go away for a long long time. Would you like a future employer in say 10 years time to read the messages you have been posting to the public today?? Wouldn't it be embarrasing to have to explain them??? Jac Kersing Technical Consultant The-Box Development j.kersing(a)the-box.com http://www.the-box.com

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