March 2019 - openSUSE Web - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse-web] Re: [opensuse-project] Google's Season of Docs
by Sarah Julia Kriesch 11 Oct '19

11 Oct '19

> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. März 2019 um 11:53 Uhr > Von: "Simon Lees" <sflees(a)suse.de> > An: opensuse-project(a)opensuse.org > Betreff: Re: [opensuse-project] Google's Season of Docs > > > > On 14/03/2019 20:03, Sarah Julia Kriesch wrote: > > > > > >> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. März 2019 um 10:06 Uhr > >> Von: "Simon Lees" <sflees(a)suse.de> > >> An: opensuse-project(a)opensuse.org > >> Betreff: Re: [opensuse-project] Google's Season of Docs > >> > >> > >> > >> On 14/03/2019 18:32, Sarah Julia Kriesch wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. März 2019 um 03:35 Uhr > >>>> Von: "Lana Brindley" <lbrindley(a)suse.de> > >>>> An: opensuse-project(a)opensuse.org > >>>> Betreff: Re: [opensuse-project] Google's Season of Docs > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Most of openSUSE's current documentation is generated along side SUSE's so talking to SUSE's documentation team is probably the best starting point. As a result of this if you look at https://doc.opensuse.org/ it tends to cover things that are in SLE very well but doesn't tend to cover areas outside that, > >>>> > >>>> Yeah, the problem I see is that there is no community-based team for these docs, the community is just relying on a re-badging of the corporate docs. > >>>> > >>>>> for example there's a bunch of low hanging fruit in things like the Gnome User Guide could probably be extended to other desktops like KDE and there are probably a bunch of other features / things that we ship in openSUSE that aren't in SLE that could equally make there way into openSUSE's version of the documentation. > >>>> > >>>> A content audit seems like a good place to start. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Since there's no mailing list or IRC any more, it's a little hard to know how to go about building up a community around docs. Do you think this is the best list to try and kick that off, or is there a more appropriate place? > >>>> > >> > >> Given there seems to be interest you can ask the hero's nicely to create > >> a new mailing list or reactivate the old one (I don't know which is > >> easier) we only closed the old one due to inactivity. > >> > >>> Such a team exists. We had many questions on our wiki mailing list in the past how to contribute to the real documentation of openSUSE, because this documentation is only editable by the SUSE documentation team. > >>> > >>> The community is only allowed to edit the wiki and that is the documentation by the community at the moment. > >> > >> This is maybe less true now, all the documentation has been open sourced > >> and is on github, although it's currently in SUSE's github which has > >> traditionally meant that SUSE isn't really expecting external > >> contributions. But still it is technically possible to create a pull > >> request. But really it would be best to discuss the best way forward > >> with the documentation team, they maybe willing and happy to accept pull > >> requests as is they may also be completely unprepared and not have the > >> man power to review a significant number of pull requests. Maybe it > >> makes sense to do the work in some other "New openSUSE feature branch", > >> at worst its possible to fork the documentation into openSUSE's github > >> and work on new areas of the documentation there still using SUSE's > >> templates and methods for building the docs. There might be other ways > >> as well, but the best people to work that through with is SUSE's > >> documentation team. They are friendly people i've met a bunch of them > >> over breakfast at some point. > >> > > We know about the friendliness. 2 years ago we should receive 1 guy for the integration of openSUSE Contributions > > and a better cooperation between the SUSE Documentation Team and our wiki team. In addition, this guy should be allowed > > to contribute to our wiki improvement during the working time. We had a small discussion on our wiki mailing list that > > the technology behind doc.opensuse.org was difficult to understand for openSUSE newbies (without SUSE background). Therefore, > > SUSE wants to be responsible for doc.opensuse.org. > > We didn't watch any Contributions in the wiki by the special SUSE Documentation Team Member. We tried the integration, > > but that was not possible. > > Well a large amount can change in two years and it might be that the > people looking at it this time are willing to figure out the current > documentation system, especially if they have past experience in > documentation its probably what they are used to. From a quick glance > its mostly xml pretty similar to other documentation systems i've used > in the past. I'd be more then comfortable contributing a basic fix and I > haven't touched doco for years so i'm sure people who do it more > regularly will pick it up pretty easily. > > So I wouldn't say its not worth trying again just because of past > experiences especially if there are people familiar with documentation > that are willing to train other people which is the whole point of > Google's Season of Docs anyway. > > Cheers > > -- > > Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net > > Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek > SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 Then let's discuss this topic on the opensuse-web mailing list. That's the mailing list with our wiki Contributors and interested Community Members for the openSUSE Documentation at the moment. Best regards, Sarah -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-web+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-web+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-web] Re: [opensuse-project] Google's Season of Docs
by Lana Brindley 18 Mar '19

18 Mar '19

On 19/03/2019 00:32, Frank Sundermeyer wrote: > Hi, > > my name is Frank, I am the project manager for documentation in SUSE. The > whole doc team was on an offsite last week, so nobody from the team had a > chance to respond so far. > > This has become a long thread, so I hope you bear with me when I answer/ > comment in a single mail rather than replying to several posts > individually... . Thanks Frank for taking the time to reply, and apologies that this all blew up while you were at the offsite. > > ----------------- > > On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 11:44:39 CET Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote: > >> I usually read complaints about the bad state of openSUSE documentation. > Ancor, this is a rather vague and general statement, can you please provide > more details? Questions that immediately come to my mind are: > > * Does this refer to the openSUSE manuals at http://doc.opensuse.org/ or to > the openSUSE Wiki at http://en.opensuse.org/? Both? > * Where have you read these complaints and have they been passed on to the > Doc team or the Wiki team? If so, what happened to the feedback? > >> Maybe we can use Season of Docs (the Google's equivalent to Summer of >> Code) to fix some stuff. > Maybe we should first find out what needs fixing, where is this needed and > how to integrate existing resources... . I agree. Google's initiative is certainly interesting (and it's always nice to see people caring about open source docs), but it's also set up for groups and writers who have a plan in place, and processes to enable writers to contribute. At this point, we don't really have that. That said, assuming Google offer the program again next year, it could be feasible, if we have managed to get a community effort off the ground by then. > ---------------- > On Thursday, 14 March 2019 00:35:19 CET Lana Brindley wrote: > >> that even the docs mailing list got shut down a little while ago > We decided to shut it down because there was no traffic at all on this list > for one year... . If needed/wanted, we can set it up again on short notice. > Just let me know... Yes, please! > > On Thursday, 14 March 2019 03:35:25 CET Lana Brindley wrote: > >> Since there's no mailing list or IRC any more > That is not true - #opensuse-doc on Freenode exists since many years and the > SUSE doc team is present. Right now I see five people in that channel (including myself), and I've been sitting in there for close to nine months now, with no interaction. Seems like the definition of a dead channel to me. Slack has the extra added benefit of providing scrollback and threading, so it tends to work better for people in different timezones, because the conversation doesn't need to be synchronous like IRC. I also think there's value in being on the same platform as the Write the Docs community. > > On Saturday, 16 March 2019 04:32:41 CET Lana Brindley wrote: > >> Yeah, I'm very familiar with Docbook XML (less so daps), but it is very >> much a tech writer's toolchain. In my experience with upstream >> communities, switching to a markdown language can greatly improve >> contributions from non-tech writers. > I know from personal experience that many discussions in the community > (regardless of the topic) end in tools discussions. Before we open that can > of worms, I suggest to concentrate on content, collaboration and processes > first ;-D. I agree, and having been through community-based conversation projects in the past, it's important to get the team structure and processes right first. It's an important consideration, though, and I don't want it to be forgotten in all the political discussion. > ---------------- > On Thursday, 14 March 2019 09:02:22 CET Sarah Julia Kriesch wrote: > >> We had many questions on our wiki mailing list in the >> past how to contribute to the real documentation of openSUSE, because this >> documentation is only editable by the SUSE documentation team. > This is no longer true since more than 3½ years (June 2015). Since then, > _all_ SUSE product documentation is publically hosted on GitHub and licensed > under an openSource license (GFDL, Apache 2.0, Creative Commons). The SUSE > doc team happily accepts pull requests, bug reports and other help. > The openSUSE documentation that is hosted on http://doc.opensuse.org/, for > example, is hosted at https://github.com/SUSE/doc-sle (SLES, SLED, and > openSUSE documenation are generated from the same source). I suspect from this conversation thread that the invitation to make PRs to the doc team hasn't been well publicised. Another issue I see is that while the documentation is living in github, it's not being treated as docs-as-code, but rather long-form documentation, which makes it much harder to make quick patches. > > Again, we are open for cooperation and collaboration. We have NO intention > at all to exclude the community. > > BTW: The complete doc toolchain the doc team is using is also hosted on > GitHub and is used by people from outside SUSE. > The _complete_ work the SUSE doc team does is public and transparent for > everyone. This is great, and it gives us a really good starting point for a community effort. > On Thursday, 14 March 2019 10:33:46 CET Sarah Julia Kriesch wrote: > >> We know about the friendliness. 2 years ago we should receive 1 guy for >> the integration of openSUSE Contributions and a better cooperation between >> the SUSE Documentation Team and our wiki team. > [...] >> We didn't watch any Contributions in the wiki by the special SUSE >> Documentation Team Member. We tried the integration, but that was not >> possible. > I was involved in these conversations and supported the solution you > mentioned above. In hindsight, it would have been better to not make this > promise. Not because we did not want to help. Quite the opposite. We made > this promise because we really _wanted_ to help. Back then the doc team was > under heavy work load (and it still is). We had hoped to find time to > squeeze in the work for the wiki (because we wanted to). It turned out that > it did not work out. And still does not. > I should have let you know about this much earlier. I failed to do so and > you have every right to be angry about us not fulfilling our part of the > agreement. > But be rest assured that it was not done because of disrespect for the > community, but because of lack of resources. > ---------------- > On Thursday, 14 March 2019 10:06:57 CET Simon Lees wrote: > >> But still it is technically possible to create a pull >> request. > Yes! And bug reports, if you prefer that. > >> But really it would be best to discuss the best way forward >> with the documentation team, they maybe willing and happy to accept pull >> requests as is they may also be completely unprepared and not have the >> man power to review a significant number of pull requests. > Reviewing pull requests is part of our daily work and should be doable > (unless you do not attempt to rewrite everything with several hundered > requests ;-D). We may not always react within hours, but no work will be > lost or ignored. > the same is true for bug reports - they will usually take longer to get > fixed, but we will not ignore them. > >> Maybe it >> makes sense to do the work in some other "New openSUSE feature branch", > Our tool chain and DocBook XML make it possible to create parts of the > documentation that is only valid for one product flavor (openSUSE in this > case). This is true for single words, sections, chapters or even whole > guides. Therefore adding openSUSE-specific content should not be a problem. That's quite an unwieldy feature in Docbook, but it's a good beginning. >> at worst its possible to fork the documentation into openSUSE's github > I hope it will not come to this - all parties would lose in this case. I agree, and as I said in an earlier mail it only makes sense if the internal docs team is hostile to patches, which it would seem you are not. > >> There might be other ways as well, but the best people to work that >> through with is SUSE's documentation team. > That would really be appreciated. And I am volunteering to continue this > discussion with you - just let me know where (in case it is moved somewhere > else). > I think the suggestion was to move to opensuse-web, so I have added them to this mail. Lana -- Lana Brindley Technical Writer - SUSE Manager "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-web+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-web+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-web] Pls update following values at https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Build_Service
by Amey Abhyankar 14 Mar '19

14 Mar '19

Hello, I don't have access to https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Build_Service Hence, request you to update following fields = i) Update following old values with new 1's from https://build.opensuse.org/ = currently ( June 2018 ) hosts 53,219 projects, with 468,316 packages, in 79,794 ii) openSUSE:Factory project, = Replace broken link with new link i.e. https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Factory Thanks & Regards, Amey. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-web+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-web+owner(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-web] bad wiki Info| output
by Felix Miata 08 Mar '19

08 Mar '19

https://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=Template:Sandbox http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Suse/wiki20190307editInfo1.jpg What am I doing wrong to get {{{1}}} instead of the content following "{{Info|" in the editing textarea? "Here is how to use <tt>nomodeset</tt>. When the first openSUSE Installation menu appears, move the highlight to "<tt>Installation</tt>" and strike the "<tt>e</tt>" key. Then move the cursor to the end of the line (which may be wrapped) beginning with "<tt>linux</tt>" and ending with "<tt>splash=silent</tt>" and/or "<tt>quiet</tt>", and without typing any quote marks, append a space and "<tt>nomodeset</tt>", then proceed by striking <tt>F10</tt> or <tt>Ctrl-X</tt> to see if black screen and no signal are avoided. If you see a green bar moving across the bottom of the screen that's good. Strike the <tt>ESC</tt> key to see more information while the boot process proceeds." My object is to make it look like the paragraph near the bottom: inxi may not already be installed. It's in the OSS repos ready for zypper or YaST to install. Output from inxi -GxxSM is a good starting point to provide information about your computer in any video issue help request. on https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Nomodeset:_Work_Around_Graphic_Upgrade_&_Instal… -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-web+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-web+owner(a)opensuse.org

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