I'm simply suggesting transparency is good in this organization.
You bring up an example -- while attacking me, personally -- where I
wanted to be public about things and *some* people did not want to be
public. And you didn't like that (apparently).
This is getting nasty and it really doesn't need to. Let's just take a
breath. I never attacked you. I never threatened you. I'll just
ignore the words you wrote below so we can move forward.
I still suggest a vote by the members to see if, going forward, it would
be beneficial to have individual Board Member votes -- on any given
topic -- be made public. If the membership of openSUSE doesn't want
that... then that's settled. If we do want that... then that's easy to
implement and shouldn't be a big deal.
On 2018-08-25 15:31, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
For anybody reading this post:
I'm posting this as a private person, see my adjusted signature, and
definitely not as an openSUSE Board Member. I've tried to post a
of content, but am aware that I'm emotianal about this, since Bryan was
Board member, though his activities were virtually zero.
Op zaterdag 25 augustus 2018 23:16:07 CEST schreef Bryan Lunduke:
On 2018-08-25 13:01, Richard Brown wrote:
>> Correct. That's how every election
-- in every industry/government
>> across the globe -- works. If someone
doesn't want to "come in
>> they don't run for office.
>> Even popular people lose. Just how it
works. That's life.
F*ck popular, that's your perception, not mine. Sorry if your's is
elected for what you do instead of popularity to me looks less
> But the Board is not 'running for
office' in a sense that can be
> considered analogous to any industry or
> openSUSE Board Members are not empowered to
create laws or sign orders
> which others are duty bound to follow
> Especially when you consider our primary
role being one of dispute
> resolution and judgement, we have more in
common with Jurors than
> company Board Members or Elected politicans
This is incorrect.
The openSUSE Board also makes budgetary
(and policies / plans), coordination with other
individuals), event planning, and even decisions
of who will (or
be allowed to be members of openSUSE (or utilize
The "jury" comparison you make is
absolutely accurate... for a very
small portion of what the openSUSE Board does.
>> I'm getting some mixed signals
here, my friend. :)
>> Just a few days ago you chastised others
for being public about Board
>> "Replying a little seriously, and
to justify my vote publicly (which
>> something I shouldn't have to do,
given the Board's rule that
>> decisions made collectively are defended
collectively, but someone
>> seems to have forgotten that... :-/
)" - Richard Brown, Tuesday
> And you are either acting intentionally
obtuse or don't notice the
> huge monumental difference between a
situation where Board members are
> required to stand up publicly as individuals
and justify their
> decision in public, and a situation where
the Board collectively owns
> both the decision "we as a group feel
X" and the dissent "but a number
> in our group also felt Y"
I'll just move past the out-of-left-field
> The Board have been elected to a position
where they are the final
> arbiters of any decision that gets to their
> If an issue gets to their desk it can be
argued that it only does so
> because no other contributor was willing or
able to make the decisions
> via our usual (very public) means.
This sort of process is not entirely unlike many
forms of government
(such as in the USA) where the higher levels
handle the items that the
lower levels either haven't, or chose not to
That said, the openSUSE Board also tackles items
that do not first
in front of the broader openSUSE membership.
no. Either way, this is fine (as the Board is
elected to handle such
things)... but it is entirely not like Juries in
any real way.
> I think it is therefore highly important
that those decisions which
> are trusted to the Board, are conducted in a
way that empowers each
> Board member to act on their conscious,
without fear of public
> reprisals after the fact.
I get it. Your position is that a person in an
be able to carry out their duties in secret --
and people who voted
them have no right to know how they vote or what
their options are.
That's weird to me. I see your point, I
simply disagree with it on a
very core level.
> If the Project wishes to fundamentally
change the role and purpose of
> the Board then I'd be willing to see
that go to a Membership vote.
Yes. I think this would be good. Simply make
the votes public.
all. Every vote taken by the openSUSE Board --
on *every* issue --
should be made public. That way, when the next
election occurs, the
openSUSE membership can make an informed decision
on who to elect (or
re-elect) to best represent us.
> But the absolute transparency you seem to
advocate for, would not get
> my vote - if such an idea is popular, I
would suggest the Board as we
> know it would be pointless - we might as
well have anyone and everyone
> making every decision in public.
That's ok. I respect your thoughts here. I
believe you would be
out-voted by the membership by a rather wide
Anyone else want the votes of Board members to be
Come on. So every board member can be attacked personally by you or the
of the world? How the f*ck are we going to have board members if they
social-media-killed after producing minutes. Dude, you're missing the
simple vote on this would seem to me to be an
easy way to settle this
(without the whole name-calling thing).
This is really crossing my lines, Bryan. Sorry to say so, and I've kept
about some things so far, only because of my own principles of decency,
you are the one asking for transparancy:
You, and no one else, were the one that threatened the other Board
go public in your youtube etc, channels, if they would not follow your
opinion. Threatened with going public on your channels. Threatened, no
word. As a Board Member at the time, you twisted our arms behind our
ready for cufs. You, as a Board Member. That was the kind of democracy
showed me, and what the 'disappointment' phrasing was for. Don't worry
me, you can kill my reputation where ever you want, I don't care.
personally like that, please,
But, do not ever retry this on me again. I'm still feeling hurt by that
from a self proclaimed free and open source person, where I thought
open source wouldn't need such tactics, and certainly you personally
>> I'm getting some mixed signals
here, my friend. :)
On a personal note: Bryan, please leave us alone. We'll do fine without
interference. The openSUSE Project is about openSUSE, not about Bryan
If you think this needs some discussion, feel free to email me, but,
think if it, rather reply to this list first, but still feel free to
Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht
openSUSE Forums Team
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