On 06/09/2018 06:52, Fraser_Bell wrote:
This thread, and the debate about votes, actually moved -- in the most part -- to some reasonable suggestions pro and con.
Some exceptions, of course, such as the person's who have taken the stance of "I have made up my mind way ahead of time, and I will go to ridiculous lengths and absurd examples to defend my position, even though I refuse to give any open-minded thought to the debate."
Which, of course, is sad, especially when some of them are my personal "openSUSE Heroes".
However, as I said, the debate is taking some actual Adult, Thoughtful, Open-Minded direction, as well.
I especially thank Jim Henderson for stepping in hear, since he has some of the most Reasonable responses and suggestions to offer.
For the past several days, I have been planning to step back in -- since the thread improved -- and compose a Very Carefully Thought Out response to some of the points raised here.
In the meantime, Jim has stepped in and made pretty much all the Reasonable points I was planning to make.
I do not say it is "do or die, all votes must be made public".
But, there really has not been one single Reasonable and Realistic point raised to negate the move to defaulting to "Votes made public unless there is a good, valid reason not to."
No, not ONE!
There are many things that absolutely *must* remain private. For a good example, the Board reporting in the Minutes that it was necessary to mediate between a couple of our valuable contributors, that was important information for us to know, but at the same time:
Not releasing the information about who voted for what, nor the details of the mediation, nor the information about Who the contributors are/were or what the issue is remained Private, as it should.
We now understand some of the difficult work our Board Members are doing for us as a result of the information as it was released, without the disruptive information being allowed to come out and cause harm.
I believe that the Board Members whom we have elected (and the appointed one, as well) can be thoroughly trusted to decide such things, and I believe most of the Community would agree we have that much Trust in our Board Members.
So, I think it is Imperative that the default should be:
- Make the Votes Public *unless there is a good, valid, reasonable
reason NOT to, and;
- If a Member of the Board decided the votes on a certain issue should
NOT be made public, they should raise their point to the other Board Members. The Board would then decide if it is a Reasonable objection, or not, and if the objection passes the "Reasonable" test, than the vote should not be made public.
Seems to me that would be an Adult, Principled, Reasonable approach.
... and, thanks again, Jim, for your well-expressed thoughts on this subject.
Ok, so we are getting somewhere here, we mostly agree, so my reason for saying exactly what you are except with private by default is one of simplicity and practicality, on the vast majority of things that the board deals with we reach a consensus without a vote which really leaves us in the position where 90% of the things we vote on and don't reach a consensus have a good valid reasonable reason to keep the votes public, if a board member can't say why they voted for something because it would require making info public then they shouldn't have to say what they voted for.