For anybody reading this post:
I'm posting this as a private person, see my adjusted signature, and definitely not as an openSUSE Board Member. I've tried to post a neutral piece of content, but am aware that I'm emotianal about this, since Bryan was a Board member, though his activities were virtually zero.
Op zaterdag 25 augustus 2018 23:16:07 CEST schreef Bryan Lunduke:
On 2018-08-25 13:01, Richard Brown wrote:
Correct. That's how every election -- in every industry/government
across the globe -- works. If someone doesn't want to "come in
they don't run for office.
Even popular people lose. Just how it works. That's life.
F*ck popular, that's your perception, not mine. Sorry if your's is such, being elected for what you do instead of popularity to me looks less stressful
But the Board is not 'running for office' in a sense that can be
considered analogous to any industry or government.
openSUSE Board Members are not empowered to create laws or sign orders
which others are duty bound to follow
Especially when you consider our primary role being one of dispute
resolution and judgement, we have more in common with Jurors than
company Board Members or Elected politicans
This is incorrect.
The openSUSE Board also makes budgetary decisions, endorsement decisions
(and policies / plans), coordination with other organizations (and
individuals), event planning, and even decisions of who will (or won't)
be allowed to be members of openSUSE (or utilize openSUSE resources).
The "jury" comparison you make is absolutely accurate... for a very
small portion of what the openSUSE Board does.
I'm getting some mixed signals here, my friend. :)
Just a few days ago you chastised others for being public about Board
"Replying a little seriously, and to justify my vote publicly (which
something I shouldn't have to do, given the Board's rule that
decisions made collectively are defended collectively, but someone
seems to have forgotten that... :-/ )" - Richard Brown, Tuesday
And you are either acting intentionally obtuse or don't notice the
huge monumental difference between a situation where Board members are
required to stand up publicly as individuals and justify their
decision in public, and a situation where the Board collectively owns
both the decision "we as a group feel X" and the dissent "but a number
in our group also felt Y"
I'll just move past the out-of-left-field personal attacks...
The Board have been elected to a position where they are the final
arbiters of any decision that gets to their desk.
If an issue gets to their desk it can be argued that it only does so
because no other contributor was willing or able to make the decisions
via our usual (very public) means.
This sort of process is not entirely unlike many forms of government
(such as in the USA) where the higher levels handle the items that the
lower levels either haven't, or chose not to tackle themselves
That said, the openSUSE Board also tackles items that do not first come
in front of the broader openSUSE membership. Sometimes yes. Sometimes
no. Either way, this is fine (as the Board is elected to handle such
things)... but it is entirely not like Juries in any real way.
I think it is therefore highly important that those decisions which
are trusted to the Board, are conducted in a way that empowers each
Board member to act on their conscious, without fear of public
reprisals after the fact.
I get it. Your position is that a person in an elected position should
be able to carry out their duties in secret -- and people who voted for
them have no right to know how they vote or what their options are.
That's weird to me. I see your point, I simply disagree with it on a
very core level.
If the Project wishes to fundamentally change the role and purpose of
the Board then I'd be willing to see that go to a Membership vote.
Yes. I think this would be good. Simply make the votes public.
all. Every vote taken by the openSUSE Board -- on *every* issue --
should be made public. That way, when the next election occurs, the
openSUSE membership can make an informed decision on who to elect (or
re-elect) to best represent us.
But the absolute transparency you seem to advocate for, would not get
my vote - if such an idea is popular, I would suggest the Board as we
know it would be pointless - we might as well have anyone and everyone
making every decision in public.
That's ok. I respect your thoughts here. I believe you would be
out-voted by the membership by a rather wide margin.
Anyone else want the votes of Board members to be public?
Come on. So every board member can be attacked personally by you or the rest of the world? How the f*ck are we going to have board members if they can be social-media-killed after producing minutes. Dude, you're missing the point here completely.
simple vote on this would seem to me to be an easy way to settle this
(without the whole name-calling thing).
This is really crossing my lines, Bryan. Sorry to say so, and I've kept quiet about some things so far, only because of my own principles of decency, But you are the one asking for transparancy:
You, and no one else, were the one that threatened the other Board members to go public in your youtube etc, channels, if they would not follow your opinion. Threatened with going public on your channels. Threatened, no other word. As a Board Member at the time, you twisted our arms behind our backs, ready for cufs. You, as a Board Member. That was the kind of democracy you showed me, and what the 'disappointment' phrasing was for. Don't worry about me, you can kill my reputation where ever you want, I don't care. Threaten me personally like that, please,
But, do not ever retry this on me again. I'm still feeling hurt by that coming from a self proclaimed free and open source person, where I thought free and open source wouldn't need such tactics, and certainly you personally wouldn't.
I'm getting some mixed signals here, my friend. :)
On a personal note: Bryan, please leave us alone. We'll do fine without your interference. The openSUSE Project is about openSUSE, not about Bryan Lunduke.
If you think this needs some discussion, feel free to email me, but, come to think if it, rather reply to this list first, but still feel free to contact me.