June 2007 - openSUSE UX - openSUSE Mailing Lists

yast-gtk package selector
by Ricardo Cruz 09 Jul '07

09 Jul '07

Hi guys, Anybody wants to comment on yast-gtk package selector? In particular the splitted pools? We got some criticism with regard to it, and are evaluating if changes should be made for 10.3. The main complains seem to be that they find it to be different and confusing. We are particularly looking for feedback of people that have been using it. Cheers, Ricardo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-ux] yast-gtk package selector
by Alberto Passalacqua 05 Jul '07

05 Jul '07

Il giorno ven, 29/06/2007 alle 19.54 +0100, Ricardo Cruz ha scritto: > Sex, 2007-06-29 às 18:39 +0200, Alberto Passalacqua escreveu: > > Hello, > Hi, > > You meant to sent this to the opensuse-ux, right? No problem, but I > will share your mail with the rest of the team, ok? Sure. Sorry, I'm not subscribed to the yast-devel list. Feel free to spread my message :-) > > I've just installed and tried it because it's not installed by default > > by alpha 5 GNOME one cd install. > > > Oh, so it is shipped in the CD, but is not installed by default? (I > don't follow the Alphas, the two Novell guys on the team take care of > that...) Well, it was the first release of 1 cd install for alpha 5. Not a problem. > > It is different if compared to the Qt version, but the general usage is > > quite simple. > > > > There are some issue however, that I think has to be addressed: > > > > * It builds the list of packages every time you switch > > visualization. > > Would require some sweat, but it's fix-able. :) Would you say this must > be fixed for 10.3? > I can see how this would bother someone that is just giving a try to > the package selector, but shouldn't bother close as much to the casual > user who will not be jumping around the modes... Yes, but it's quite annoying. I think it's common to switch from the pattern list to the category list for example. Btw, I would put the pattern list as default, like in the Qt version. > > For example switching from "Patterns" to "Plain > > list" requires some time to rebuild the lists of packages, while > > under the QT version it is immediate. > > yast-qt doesn't build the entire thing at one moment. For instance, > their "plain list" equivalent is blank, and you need to search for > something... This kind of approach would require significantly more > work to be quick, but ok, can be done. Yast-qt can show all the packages if you go to Groups -> All, without searching. However the issue which bothers me is the parsing at each switch. The way the whole list is shown is OK. > > * If a package is installed, it is shown both in the Available > > column and in the Installed column, which is confusing. Probably > > this is an alternative to the Refresh function present in the QT > > version, but it should be made explicit. > > Right... If you install some package from a repo, it wont't disappear > from it. :) But okay, we can hide it; in fact, we did, and had a popup > menu that allowed the user to re-install the package... This wasn't very > elegant... You think its better though? Well, you point of view is interesting. I didn't think that way because I was comparing to the Yast-qt installer. Now I'm in doubt. I like the idea of pools to represent repositories, and in this vision, I understand your idea of leaving the package in the "Available" pool too. However I think there should be a "Reinstall" function explicitly shown somewhere, because users accustomed to yast-qt installer might miss it. > Or, do you mean that even different versions of the package shouldn't > be listed in the available pool No. That would be too much :-) > > * There's no way to immediately understand if there's a new > > version of a package (no highlight). > > Okay, sounds useful. Some shaded red would be okay? You can use the convention you like hehe. Yast-qt has some inconsistency itself. In Yast-qt software manager: - Blue -> There's a newer version available. - Red -> The available version is older than the installed one. - Black -> The installed version is the same available. In Yast-qt online update: - Blue -> Recommended update - Red -> Security update - Black -> Additional stuff > > * There's no way to "Taboo" a package (or I didn't find it). > > You're right, there isn't. Taboo means the package won't be installed > no matter what, right? In what scenarios would you use it? To block the installation of something under every circumstance. For example, I don't want wlan-kmp on my desktop because it conflicts with my ndiswrapper driver, and without tabooing it, it's reinstalled at every kernel update. > > * There's no way to select a whole list of packages. To be honest > > it's possible to select it by using SHIFT+CLICK, but it's not > > exactly amazing. > > Tell me what selection way you have in mind. In Yast-qt you can select all the packages in a list and: * Upgrade (refresh) them unconditinally * Upgrade them if there's a new version * Taboo them (never install) * Remove them * Lock them (never change) > > * Also, a cosmetic improvement would be to show the disk space > > usage permanently, maybe removing the tabs and showing disk > > usage and sources list in two boxes at the bottom of the main > > window. But this is a minor issue. > > > I actually wrote it that way at first; the sources table is a bit too > wide though... Will check possible layouts and ask the others about > this... Hehe. Ok. But don't worry too much about that. It's just a matter of tastes. P.S. You sent the answer only to my address and not to the list. With kind regards, Alberto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help(a)opensuse.org

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UX/Partitioner
by Nayden Anguelov 29 Jun '07

29 Jun '07

Hello everyone, I just took a look at the plans for the new SUSE partitioner and I have to admit I already hate it (sorry for the strong language). I love SUSE - I am sticking with it for a 7th straight year now, but certain tendencies to over-complicate trivial tasks drive me crazy. The goal of the project is to make the new partitioner GUI simple and easy to use, but I am missing both the simplicity and ease-of-use in the following screen-shot : I know I am stupid, but this is the case with 99% of our target user-base. If we want to ignore stupid users we would end like free-BSD - an interesting project for a handful of geeks. Why don't we just use the Gparted GUI in the first window and in the second one we add advanced options (similarly to the current proposal - separated in two). We do not need to reinvent the wheel, just look at the products that are really successful in the market lately : 1. google 2. ipod 3. nintendo wii All of these have 1 common feature that makes them winners - SIMPLICITY. These 3 differentiate themselves through simplicity. In reality a normal user should not need a partitioner but this does not mean we can make it as complicated as we'd like. Simplicity is achieved through different approaches, but I think the two main are : 1. standardization 2. design improvement and simplification In the current mock-up we lack both and it really scares me personally. Best Regards, Nayden

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Fwd: [Portland] xdg-utils 1.0.2 available
by member greenarrow1 25 Jun '07

25 Jun '07

I was wondering which area of SUSE lists is handling desktops? Anyway I am sending this for all within ux if they want to peruse. I posted on top since all info is below: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bastian, Waldo <waldo.bastian(a)intel.com> Date: Jun 24, 2007 4:20 PM Subject: [Portland] xdg-utils 1.0.2 available To: portland(a)lists.freedesktop.org, xdg(a)lists.freedesktop.org, desktop_architects(a)osdl.org Thanks to a rainy Sunday afternoon, xdg-utils 1.0.2 is now available from http://portland.freedesktop.org/download/ Changes in xdg-utils 1.0.2: * SVG icons are not supported but documentation still mentioned SVG * xdg-email can now be used without any e-mail address * Do not use mktemp without arguments, it breaks on systems with certain older versions of mktemp (xdg-desktop-menu, xdg-screensaver) [BR9266] See also http://portland.freedesktop.org/wiki/XdgUtils Please give it some testing to help ensure that no regressions have been introduced. Cheers, Waldo _______________________________________________ Portland mailing list Portland(a)lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/portland George greenarrow1 InNetInvestigations-Forensic SuSe 10.2/TriStar/Apache GoBoLinux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: [opensuse-ux] Liberation fonts as default
by Bernhard Walle 22 Jun '07

22 Jun '07

* Stephan Kulow <coolo(a)novell.com> [2007-06-17 14:21]: > Am Saturday 16 June 2007 schrieb Stephan Binner: > > On Thursday 14 June 2007 06:02:29 Mohammad Bhuyan wrote: > > > I was thinking if the future distributions install them as default fonts > > > in Desktop and apps, then it will look good out of the box. > > > > What's wrong with DejaVu? Why has the default desktop to use MS metrics? I > > see sense for using it in office documents but desktop/application > > interfaces? > Because web sites are layout for these metrics. And web sites are an important > part of today's desktops. And what's the exact releationship between the desktop font and the default font in the browser? Thanks, Bernhard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help(a)opensuse.org

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Liberation fonts as default
by Mohammad Bhuyan 17 Jun '07

17 Jun '07

Hi all, Just installed Liberations Fonts (Red Hat) and changed KDE Desktop fonts to use them. I am not using sub pixel hinting and don't plan to use them due to MS patent over it. Now that there is an open replacement for MS fonts to distribute freely (I assume that is the point of Liberation fonts), I was thinking if the future distributions install them as default fonts in Desktop and apps, then it will look good out of the box. We must acknowledge the ubiquity of the proprietary Microsoft fonts. Lots of rants on the net is about people complaining how linux desktop looked ugly out of the box. gfx aside, I am sure we all know that the text in the screens is one key contribution to the user experience. Regards, -- Soyuz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-ux] Re: syntax versus semantics in UI
by Martin Schmidkunz 08 Jun '07

08 Jun '07

Am 06.06.2007, 19:48 Uhr, schrieb Juergen Weigert <jw(a)suse.de>: > This is another good example for Johannes' problem: Yes, but although we have different semantics represented by the same syntax it is obvious for the user what to do :-) This semantics/syntax thing makes sense for me, when the user is hindered to accomplish a task the most easiest way or if the user is in danger of making errors because he doesn`t know what to do. Cu, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help(a)opensuse.org

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apparmor yast redesign - updated
by David Drewelow 06 Jun '07

06 Jun '07

http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/AppArmor/UI-Redesign This is probably the final version of the reporting forms redesign. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks, -David -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: apparmor yast redesign - updated
by David Drewelow 06 Jun '07

06 Jun '07

Dominic Reynolds wrote: > Form: > > o Running Reports - Setting Filters - Profile Filters > > Whats the difference in behavior for "Select Access Type" and "Filter by > Mode"? They have the same options in the form. > > Also should we consider the present and future scope of mediation for AA? > > Currently we have: > * files (r,w,l,m,Px,px,Ux,ux,ix) > * POSIX capabilities > > Coming: > * network access controls (soonish - maybe 10.3) > * IPC controls (hopefully code11) > * rlimits (hopefully code11) > > With that scope in mind is it worth breaking the filter types into > individual tabs? Or does that make things too complex? > Hmm. Good point. That's going to be a nightmare for configuration. I was thinking of the NetDomain controls as separate, but obviously they're not. I think Tabs are the way to go here. More later. > o View Archived Reports - Choosing Reports > > This is mostly just enhancement request - in the table where we list the > file name and date time for existing reports. Would it be worthwhile to > do a little pre-processing to make the output list: > > --------------------------------------- > Report Type Date > > Audit Report 2007-05-14 13:45 > --------------------------------------- > > Not a huge deal really. > Believe it or not, not easy to do. It's a table, and you could do an ugly workaround of inserting spaces into item data, but I think that this is an issue with yast's record display. > > o Creating a Report > > For this form would it be usefull to use the tabbed UI again? Maybe > > -------------------------------------- > General/Recipients/Archiving > > General: > Name > Shcedule > > Recipients: > Email config > > Archiving: > Export type > Archive Locations > ------------------------------------ > > The QT form looks ok - but I've found the ncurses version (from previous > versions of aa) very hard to use. > Ah, I'll look into this. I didn't even think of Tabs, because it's a (relatively) simple form, but that's a good idea. More later... > Thanks for getting this redesign together - looks good. > > > -dom > Thanks, Dom. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: syntax versus semantics in UI
by Martin Schmidkunz 06 Jun '07

06 Jun '07

Hi Johannes, hi all, Please don apologize for long answers. Although it took me some time to read it and more time to answer, I found it quite interesting to read and I think, you got many good points :-) > mixing syntax with semantics I was aware of the difference between syntax and semantics, I only doubt whether this difference is also clear to the user or to be more exact: at which experience level is the user able to distinguish between syntax and semantics? I would like to give you an answer on that, but I don't know it by myself :-( "What is really interesting" should definitly not be hidden. That's totally correct :-) The point is that "what is interesting" is different for each user group. Maybe we should start thinking about different design for our different user groups? I think the syntax vs. semantics discussion and your notion of the usability test showed also that we need to take care of the workflow to clean up the semantics side of life. One word regarding the term "consistency": when I talk about consistency I want to express that it is important that items that have the same semantics must look the same to avoid user confusion. I want to work on both, the consistency and the workflow side, but up to now I don't have a mandate for this. It is on my to do list to discuss this issue, but I am afraid I won't have any resources for this before autumn :-( The light switches vs. fire alarm buttons is an excellent example. If you look closely at the fire alarms you will also notice that putting a red frame around the button is not sufficient to protect it from misuses: usually it is hidden behind glass and you have an additional explanation message. Which can be taken as a proof, that different semantics have to be explained to the user. Kind regards, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz(a)novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help(a)opensuse.org

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