Re: [opensuse-project] My comments regarding the landing page
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05/08/15 12:56, Carlos E. R. wrote: [...]
The naming of the language as "castellano" is a relatively recent political decision (pushed by Catalunya and others) that has never caught with the masses, valid only for Spain, and is of course not followed by the rest of the Spanish speaking countries. It is akin to calling French Provençal.
So, does openSUSE wants to enter a political nightmare by calling Spanish Castilian?
Why would it be a political nightmare? As you know, there are different Spanish variants. Some Latin-American countries use "castellano" or "español" indifferently. Furthermore, Spain's constitution states that castellano is the official language. Castilian is the most spoken Spanish language ;-) Greetings, - -- Javier Llorente -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlXDlboACgkQdV3zWWOPFxTaKQCbB7WD766k2iplo/QFD/fLvx+3 jaQAnA5/QFmSzW30kKITssCbWxicWg9M =oqhb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-08-06 19:13, Javier Llorente wrote:
On 05/08/15 12:56, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Why would it be a political nightmare? As you know, there are different Spanish variants.
Yes, but then the norm is to differentiate by saying "Spanish (Spain)" or "Spanish (Argentina)", for instance; some say "Spanish (Castilian)". But not "Castilian". However, the Spanish translation team at openSUSE aims to use a Spanish acceptable to all Spanish countries, not to Spain alone, or to Mexico alone, or to Argentina alone, because we don't have the volunteers to target all of them. Do not center in Spain. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlXDoccACgkQtTMYHG2NR9V4aQCggqcVHj+WA9f3ZRVmJmNZxcph I+oAn0rTPUDiDEO2NRzB7MwybHetxyST =YX4Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/08/15 20:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2015-08-06 19:13, Javier Llorente wrote:
On 05/08/15 12:56, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Why would it be a political nightmare? As you know, there are different Spanish variants.
Yes, but then the norm is to differentiate by saying "Spanish (Spain)" or "Spanish (Argentina)", for instance; some say "Spanish (Castilian)". But not "Castilian".
Right. It's strange to find just "Castilian" in English, but just "castellano" is normal in Spanish (ie: "castellano" translated as "Spanish" ).
However, the Spanish translation team at openSUSE aims to use a Spanish acceptable to all Spanish countries, not to Spain alone, or to Mexico alone, or to Argentina alone, because we don't have the volunteers to target all of them.
Sounds nice in theory, but in reality we all speak our variant and sometimes end up "correcting" others' translation. This has happened to me more than once with the distribution, artwork materials (once my translation was almost complete overwritten because of that), wiki pages. What may sound broken for me, might be completely acceptable for other person. It's a matter of preposition usage, expressions, same word used differently, different words for same object, and so on. Here, in Spain, 99% of foreign films, documentaries, etc are dubbed into Castilian Spanish... Anyways, I think the closer you are to the language spoken in some particular country, the better. It's a sign of quality. There are already translations in English and Portuguese variants, so why don't we do the same for Spanish? :) We could have two teams (one for Castilian Spanish and another one for Latin American Spanish). Greetings, - -- Javier Llorente -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlXDvt8ACgkQdV3zWWOPFxStKgCfffJ0kPzkFRjpOpbzG35KCmzD u54AnAnPd1ebA+jwSbXqEe27rI0f+kn9 =S7vj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-06 22:09, Javier Llorente wrote:
On 06/08/15 20:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
There are already translations in English and Portuguese variants, so why don't we do the same for Spanish? :)
We could have two teams (one for Castilian Spanish and another one for Latin American Spanish).
Actually, the current team has more people from *-America than from Spain :-) I did the translation because I happened to notice that it was not done, before others did. It might have been translated by any one on the team, using his particular flavour. And it is completely possible that the next time the file needs translating it is done by somebody else, and not in Castilian Spanish. On the other hand, you can not say "Latin American Spanish", because there are many variants there. You would need one variant per country. We simply do not have the manpower to do that. So the current team translates to Spanish. Whatever that is. At least we try. It is our agreed and written policy since we started :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXDzOIACgkQja8UbcUWM1xVqQD+MgN0hxpLvY3rr4a7xqzy2gqo jMG55WfckikG5SRXEy0A/RQVbNDOPuACq+kP796PowVlpnb6isN1i97sb8x640jd =Npt3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/08/15 23:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2015-08-06 22:09, Javier Llorente wrote:
On 06/08/15 20:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
There are already translations in English and Portuguese variants, so why don't we do the same for Spanish? :)
We could have two teams (one for Castilian Spanish and another one for Latin American Spanish).
Actually, the current team has more people from *-America than from Spain :-)
I did the translation because I happened to notice that it was not done, before others did. It might have been translated by any one on the team, using his particular flavour. And it is completely possible that the next time the file needs translating it is done by somebody else, and not in Castilian Spanish.
That's another reason for having two Spanish teams.
On the other hand, you can not say "Latin American Spanish", because there are many variants there. You would need one variant per country.
Latin American Spanish variants have more in common between them than between Castilian Spanish. The current "es" translation is a mixture of Spanish variants with "es_ES" as the default locale for the installer.
We simply do not have the manpower to do that.
I don't want to repeat myself, but I think we are enough people* to have at least two variants (es_ES, es_LAT).
So the current team translates to Spanish. Whatever that is. At least we try. It is our agreed and written policy since we started :-)
We were few people back then. * https://www.vertaal.tk/teams/opensuse/es/ Greetings, - -- Javier Llorente -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlXF/b8ACgkQdV3zWWOPFxQfUgCcDieth6fqHyV7amZGhobZCJGZ GSQAnitToqLJqoMUtmUJiP2Fmir9u9Au =9i4e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-08 15:01, Javier Llorente wrote:
On 06/08/15 23:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:
We simply do not have the manpower to do that.
I don't want to repeat myself, but I think we are enough people* to have at least two variants (es_ES, es_LAT).
I believe Linux does not support 3 letter country codes. See man locale, LANG definition. Reference: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap08.html All language codes I can see in "/usr/lib/locale/" are two letter, none has three (ie: xx_YY). Linux may be following ISO 639-1 for the first group of letters (language). The second group I think represents country, I believe following ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 (which is two letter): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1_alpha-2 Three letter country codes (which I don't know if Linux supports) can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1_alpha-3 But "LAT" is not listed there. The official source is here: https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#search But "LAT" doesn't find anything. If someone knows something else, please say.
So the current team translates to Spanish. Whatever that is. At least we try. It is our agreed and written policy since we started :-)
We were few people back then.
We started in 2007, before vertaal was created, and we were very active. I have archived about 4500 emails with our discussions. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXF/7QACgkQja8UbcUWM1zctgEAnTsOm4kScaIyZF4jWcIWp/Jg EVa9UF9YMsKU8GzMp8oA/ilz6PhyUCHzMISy+rL5ALleywfRtEd8kTCRH4hL1FAz =PrQq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
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Carlos E. R. -
Javier Llorente