- openSUSE Foundation

Announcement: this list is closing per 13/7/2018
by per＠opensuse.org 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

Dear list users, due to the fact that this list hasn't been used for over a year, this list will be archived and closed. Please find the current mailing lists at https://lists.opensuse.org. The list will remain open until Friday 13 July 2018. Goodbye, see you on the other lists, forums, IRC or social media. Best regards the openSUSE Board, on behalf of the community -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.1°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+owner(a)opensuse.org

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Apresentadora Priscilla Alcantara
by PRIKOTA PRODU��ES 05 Sep '13

05 Sep '13

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PING: [opensuse-wiki-de] Rechtliche Probleme des deutschsprachigen Wiki (Überblick, Aufzählung)
by pistazienfresser (see profile) 20 Jun '11

20 Jun '11

Pinged per CC to - opensuse-bar(a)opensuse.org - opensuse-foundation(a)opensuse.org Old messages to [opensuse-wiki-de] Rechtliche Probleme des deutschsprachigen Wiki (Überblick, Aufzählung) could be found in the archive under: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-wiki-de/2011-05/msg00115.html Regards Martin -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Betreff: [opensuse-wiki-de] Rechtliche Probleme des deutschsprachigen Wiki (Überblick, Aufzählung) Datum: Sat, 21 May 2011 21:11:07 +0200 Von: pistazienfresser <pistazienfresser(a)gmx.de> An: wiki-de-Mailingliste <opensuse-wiki-de(a)opensuse.org> Thread: Rechtliche Probleme des deutschsprachigen Wiki (Überblick, Aufzählung der offensichtlichsten Probleme) ca. en: Juristic Problems of the German Language Wiki (Overview, Listing of the Most Obvious Problems) TO: wiki-de-Mailinglist <opensuse-wiki-de(a)opensuse.org>, URL of the orgnial thread in the openSUSE list archive: [URL missing in the original ...] For Information (Bounce, Ping) once posted also as a copy to the following Mailing-lists: ...(to be added) If interested or/and concered with this matter - please follow the thread on the German Language Wiki Mailinglist opensuse-wiki-de All the ones now working on the new wiki are from Germany and living in Germany. Nearly all the (potential) users of the are probably from Germany, Austria and Swiss. The text of the law of a country (state) and its jurisdiction is laid down in its language.[1] Also it is the case for mostly all specialist literature concerning juristic issues. The technical terms have special meanings and the meant 'things' varieate are often not existing in an other system of law. Therefore that thread is in German language and posted to a mailinglist where German is normally the used language but it is my opinion that you are welcome to post some of your opinion in any language you want there. *Rechtliche* *Probleme* Ich weiß noch nicht ganz, wie ich die ganzen Probleme in sinnvolle Gruppen zusammenfassen sollte...es sind so viele ... Aber per neudeutsch Brainstorming komme ich da auf die gleich folgenden Gruppen oder potentiellen Threads. Dabei beeinflussen sie sich gegenseitig, aber dennoch sollte meiner Meinung nach versucht werden, die Themen (zunächst/in erster Linie) in getrennten Threads (Disskussionsfäden) zu behandeln, da sonst voraussichtlich alles überhaupt nicht mehr zu überblicken sein wird... Thread: *Verantwortlicher* mit den Unterthemen * Wer ist Verantwortlicher für deutschsprachiges Wiki? ** SOLL-Zustand (gewollt bzw. so bislang geschrieben) * ??? (Bisher steht auf den Seiten wohl nur dass Novell für *nichts* verantwortlich sei bzw. sein will - wohl eher eine Art Anti-Impressum...) ** IST-Zustand (Rechtslage) *** Novell, Inc.? *** openSUSE *** das openSUSE-Wiki-Team für das deutsche Wiki? (Wenn ja - welches und wer ist Mitglied diese Teams?) *** The Attachmate Group, Inc.? * Wer könnte noch haften? * Benennung des Verantwortlichen (meist *Impressum* genannt) **->de: -> "Allgemeine Informationspflichten" = § 5 TMG (Telemediengesetz) Zu den Anforderungen siehe unter http://dejure.org/gesetze/TMG/5.html (Gesetzestext mit Hinweisen/Links zu Rechtsprechung und Aufsätzen) *** Kann der Verantwortliche auch jemanden anderen die Verantwortung übertragen, so dass dieser zweite nun im Impressum genannt wird? ** -> Normen in anderen Rechtssystemen? ** Metanormen (Was/welches Rechtssystem gilt wann?) ***Für die gesamte EU sind diese Metanormen Rom I bzw. Rom II geregelt Daraus folgt... ***sofern die Novell, Inc. die Verantwortliche ist bzw. sich zur Verantwortlichen ernennt ***sofern die openSUSE die Verantwortliche ist bzw. sich zur Verantwortlichen ernennt ***sofern das openSUSE Team Verantwortlicher ist bzw. sich zum Verantwortlichen ernennt ***sofern mehrere oder alle Verantwortlich sind -> siehe oben "Wer ist Verantwortlicher" - daher muss man wohl eigentlich alle Fälle durchspielen, um ein Paradoxon zu vermeiden... Thread: *Geltende Rechtssysteme* mit den Unterthemen * Wortlaut der derzeitigen Auslegung * Anwendung der europäischen und deutschen, ... Meta-Regeln und Normen zum anwendbaren Recht, zur Rechtswahl und zur Zulässigkeit einer Gerichtsstandsvereinbarung *** Wer betreibt die (neue, im Moment im Aufbau befindliche) deutschsprachige Wiki-Webseite? -> siehe eigener Thread (Verantwortliche[r]) ** mögliche Verstöße gegen Rechtsregeln ** mögliche Folgen der Verstöße ** wer könnte haften? Einer, mehrere oder alle vorher Genannten? Thread *Lizenz* mit den Unterthemen * Was gilt: * Befolgung der gewählten Lizenz - praktische Umsetzung und Probleme ** Bisherige Probleme, insbesondere mit der History und den darin enthaltenen bisherigen Autoren ** Was soll mit Artikeln geschehen, die per Copy-and-Paste also unter Löschung der bisherigen Autoren in das Wiki eingefügt werden? * Mögliche Probleme aus der völligen Haftungsbefreiung (auch für Vorsatz und grobe Fahrlässigkeit) ** Gesamtnichtigkeit der Haftungsbefreiung (red pencil test) ** Abmahnung und Unterlassungsklage wegen Gebrauch rechtswidriger AGB * Alternativen zur derzeitigen Lizenz ** Creative Commons (CC) ***Rechtssystem auf das CC abgestimmt wurde: CC-3.0 unported (vornehmlich auf US-Rechtssystem abgestimmt und verbindlicher Text nur auf Englisch), oder CC-3.0-de oder ... ***frei auch für kommerzielle (Weiter-)Verwendung =NC oder nicht? ***viral oder nicht-viral? Thead *Sprache für bindende Regeln (AGB)* mit den Unterthemen * Derzeiger Zustand: ** Wortlaut der jetzigen Übersetzung ist wohl eher nicht zu gebrauchen[2] wie auch: wenn man versucht US-Rechtssprache ins Deutsche zu übersetzen...teilweise gibt es gar nicht wirklich entsprechende Fachworte, weil es so etwas im anderen Rechtssystem nicht gibt ( siehe Urheberrecht != Copyright ) ** angeblich soll nur die englischsprachige Version der AGB bindend sein ** Probleme mit nationalen Rechtssystem der Leser, Autoren und Verantwortlichen (deutschen, österreichischem, Schweizer,... ...Rechtssystem) * Alternativen zum derzeitigen Zustand? Thread: *openSUSE - was ist es und was könnte es in Zukunft sein?* (sollte wohl eher auf der Liste openSUSE-project oder ähnlichen behandelt werden...) mit den Unterthemen * IST-Zustand: Offenbar Gesellschaft bürgerlichen Rechts (GbR, BGB-Gesellschaft) Siehe: Definition GbR: Gemeinsamer Zweck, agiert nach Außen, ... + Benimmt sich wie Verein (Board quasi Vorstand, Mitgliedschaft und Regeln dafür) ist aber nicht eingetragen. * Folgen von IST-Zustand: Jeder für sich haftet für Fehler aller nach außen - wenn er verklagt wird, muss er nach außen alles zahlen, und kann außerdem versuchen, sich das Geld wieder zu holen (nach Innen in Rückgriff zu gehen) - ohne dass dies für den Kläger relevant wäre... Thread: *Spezielle Probleme der Einführung der Versionskontrolle* ("gesichtete und geprüfte Versionen") * Eine Markierung als "geprüft" birgt die eine noch höhere Gefahr, für die Fehler anderer haften zu müssen. * Sollte man die Versionskontrolle zumindest für "geprüft" im dewiki abschalten oder nur begrenzen (per sozialer Regel gerichtet an Menschen, nicht an die Programme)? * Wie kann man die automatische Sichtung abschalten? -> entweder so dass 2. Klick erforderlich wäre oder gar immer nur Sichtung durch einen zweiten Sichter möglich? * Markierung als "geprüft" oder "gesichtet" (in der Regel) nur durch anderen als den Autor? Kein Anspruch auf Vollständigkeit oder auch nur Abdecken aller schlimmsten Bugs. Wem noch etwas einfällt, mag es gerne ergänzen, Regards/Grüße Martin Footnotes/Fußnoten: [1] Only most of the text of the law concerning the meta-rules about the cases in that national law may not apply are also existing in a binding form in other languages (amongst other language also in Englisch language): Regulation (EC) No 593/2008 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 17 June 2008 on the law applicable to contractual obligations (Rome I) http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2008:177:0006:01… Regulation (EC) No 864/2007 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 July 2007 on the law applicable to non-contractual obligations (Rome II) http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?val=453402:cs Also the basic rules for (de: Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen - AGB) See: Council Directive 93/13/EEC of 5 April 1993 on unfair terms in consumer contracts http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?val=294482:cs&lang=de&list=294482:cs, and following Derectives - but the nations are mostly free to use even harder rules - and Germany does so. See the original §§ 305 BGB (Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch) and following: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/BJNR001950896.html#BJNR001950896BJNG0… and the translation (not binding but you could go the them via the webside of the Bundesjustizministerium...) : http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_bgb/englisch_bgb.html#BGBengl_00… [2] * Zu: Wortlaut der jetzigen Übersetzung ist wohl eher nicht zu gebrauchen Wie auch, wenn man versucht US-Rechtssprache ins Deutsche zu übersetzen. Teilweise gibt es gar nicht wirklich entsprechende Fachworte, weil es so etwas im anderen Rechtssystem nicht gibt ( siehe Urheberrecht != Copyright ) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-de+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-de+help(a)opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help(a)opensuse.org

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Foundation Status
by Manu Gupta 04 May '11

04 May '11

Hi All I have been subscribed to this list for long enough and subscribed it again only to know that I have already subscribed to it. I would really love to know where are we at creating an openSUSE Foundation. Any status / update would be helpful. Its been so long that I have even forgotten the relevant links that were created if you can point me to it / create a foundation portal on the wiki ( Is it a good idea???) it will be great. And if at all any discussion is going on, behind closed doors is not a good idea when people who are interested in monitoring the status of the foundation are already subscribed to the list. I dont see the point of creating a list with no discussions. The last discussion was on 11th Feb, before I subscribed.. not good. -- Regards Manu Gupta -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help(a)opensuse.org

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Reboot. Lets start again, this time organized
by Henne Vogelsang 11 Feb '11

11 Feb '11

Hey, we have started off not very organized and I would like to change that now. I think we need to make this a purposeful discussion that has rules, moderation and an end. Otherwise we'll never get anywhere. So here is how I want us to do it. 0. In all of this we are trying to find compromise and consensus. This is not about getting it your way. We need to build something together! 1. Before we discuss anything we pick someone who moderates the discussions. The moderator is supposed to summarize, track progress and call an end to the discussion. We need results! 2. We discuss single aspects of the foundation. Not the whole foundation and all it's aspects at once. The list of items to discuss is tracked on the wiki at http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Foundation/Topics We need to focus! 3. We discuss these aspects by trying to make clear our intentions and by agreeing on the important points. Not by hammering out elaborated paragraphs of text. Bullet points first, formulations later. We need to keep track of the important matters! 4. The discussion is limited to arguments. That means if you agree you don't say anything. NO "I like this!" MAILS. If you disagree with something you make an argument against it. NO "I don't like this!" MAILS. We need to keep the length of the discussion to a minimum! 5. We only re-visit a previous discussed topic if the _result_ of a discussion of another topic is that we need to. When we agree on something it's the way it is. We need to be able to rely on things! Comments on those rules? Any additional rule you would want to see? Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help(a)opensuse.org

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Objective of the Foundation
by jdd 11 Feb '11

11 Feb '11

This topic is probably the most important, but hopefully we will agree pretty easily on it :-), so may be we have to discuss it now. First some details. The topic pages says: "Objective of the Foundation". May be we should say "objectives" (plural)?? The page linked: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Foundation have as title : "Charter and Purpose of a Foundation". This should be changed for "Charter and Purpose of the openSUSE Foundation" then on the most important parts. In my mind, at first think, a "Foundation" deals only with legal stuff and money, not with the day to day life of a project. So I see two options for the openSUSE foundation: * restricting the goals to that (legal and money), make it leaded by a small group of old timers, well known and interested members and let the openSUSE community at large work with the project on informal basis (like many free software projects). Then the foundation will have a board different from the openSUSE board as seen now (the present board can have a control power of some sort); * make the foundation the whole project. Looks like it's the prefered option for now. In my opinion it's a bit more complicated to deal with. I don't know for sure (and I don't know at all for german associations), but I beg to be a member of an association one have to pay some fee ("cotisation" in french) and to be identified physically (not only in electronical form). Associations with non local (country resident) members may have to be special - most states wants to control strangers activity. This is necessary and even very important because any group involving money may attract some bad interest :-(. In this option, by-laws have to be very well fitted not to have the main direction board changed too easily. Let me give an example: I beg than kde organisation do not attract many users at large, but mostly kde developpers. It's not the case for openSUSE that have to work with a large community. I remember when the ICANN wanted to have an "At large" vote, and sent reigistered mails to any people that wanted to vote (I was in them), the cost was probably hudge. I have already seen relatively small groups of motivated people take the power in association against the former board. It's not impossible than 20 motivated people could discourage others and take the power in openSUSE (how many people in openSUSE are really intersted in legal problems? right now there is little interest to do so and Novell is in control, but on a foundation with lot of money...) I personnally don't have any real taste for one or the other option :-( let's discuss it. jdd NB: If you agree, I may summarize the discussion. Given we are on a week end, may be be we can let go for 4 days, until approx tuesday? -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help(a)opensuse.org

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legal form
by jdd 09 Feb '11

09 Feb '11

* The legal form of the foundation is to be a German voluntary association (wikipedia:Eingetragener_Verein). I understand very well that this is much more handy than any other system, given where most suse fellows are located, but I'm not sure it's the better way to solve problems. among others Linux problems are legal problems (see restricted formats). It was said (I don't know if it's true) that the location of Canonical on the Man island is one of the reason ubuntu is more easy to deal with. So may be we should have a foundation in some extra place like Man island or Guernesey? could be Lichtenstein (not far from Nurnberg, I already spent vacations in Vaduz :-). This don't mean we can't work elsewhere. Probably it will cost some more cash hiring lawyers. ideas? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help(a)opensuse.org

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membership, subscribtion fee and elections
by jdd 06 Feb '11

06 Feb '11

Hello :-) new subject, I think important. we have to manage the foundation in a democratic way. That mean *real* elections, known membership etc. we *can* have several layers. from top down: * a President, secretary or chairman, that is the one people that speaks mostly for the foundation, * a board, usually around 8 people * a Commity (I don't know the exact english wording - "conseil d'administration" in french) * an active membership * a membership usually, for example in a sport association, the membership is the people that makes sport as non professional, the active members are the people that use to have interest on organisational processes and association management, often they pay a bit more than the others. All the members meet as a general assembly, sometime some members have a different weigth in votes than others. they elect the commity. Bay laws are decided from a special general assembly (Assemblée générale extraordinaire) and with a special % of the votes (3/4, 2/3...). The GA are held *in person* (physically) and procuration can only be given to one people on a limited number (not to have one people having himself a majority) The commity elects the board and the president. This system is pretty difficult to setup for us, because we can't allow votes by mail (too easy to trick), and registered mail vote is extremely expensive. Physical encounter is not possible, of course. So we may have to say that the foundation is *not* managed by it's lmembers, but by it's commity. This is perfectly fine in France. bylaws, nominations, decisions are taken by the commity. Commity members are coopted (choosen by previous members). If the initial bylaws are correctly setup, this can be a good way of life. For example we can have a 'constitution' saying that itself can't be changed by less than 80% of the commity, and internal rules modified by an ordinary majority. The constitution can state than only 1/4 of the commity can be changed at a time (all these numbers are example, not propositions), and than the initial board (or a list of people) be member of the commity for all they life and so on. so, first question: * do we want a foundation directed by it's commity or by all the members (and if the second option is to be used, how do we identify the members?) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help(a)opensuse.org

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Purpose of the Foundation; help refine the definition
by Alan Clark 28 Jan '11

28 Jan '11

Greetings to all on the Foundation ML. Posted on the wiki is a paragraph describing the purpose of the Foundation. http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Foundation It's intended to be a precise description of the Foundation. A description that we will refer back to often throughout all the discussions and in building the official documents. Please take a few minutes and review this description and comment on how it may be refined. Thanks, Alan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help(a)opensuse.org

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Just thinking out loud ...
by Per Jessen 20 Jan '11

20 Jan '11

are we talking about a foundation as such or will a society/association suffice? which jurisdiction? Are there any significant implications (tax, legal organisational)? who will do the practical work? The purpose of the organisation might influence some of those, I'm not sure. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-foundation+help(a)opensuse.org

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