July 2009 - openSUSE Features - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[openFATE 306488] Package Novell client as part of SLE Media
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 09 Jul '09

09 Jul '09

Feature added by: Sankar P (psankar) Feature #306488, revision 1 Title: Package Novell client as part of SLE Media Requested by: Sankar P (psankar) Description: Package Novell client as part of SLE Media. A) why should we package ? Customers with SLE deployments having OES/NetWare in their data centers need this. B) what is the customer impact if the change is not included NCL has to be separately distributed on a media different from the SLE OS media. C) is there a workaround – if there is please describe what the work around is currently. Download and install NCL, but patch updates may not be available in the patch channel If Novell Client is packaged along with SLE media, it will also help in OES getting the Novell Client by default. Various components of OES (such as Migration) need Novell Client. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306488

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[openFATE 306628] openSUSE Wubi Installation
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 09 Jul '09

09 Jul '09

Feature added by: Raúl García (bgta) Feature #306628, revision 1 Title: openSUSE Wubi Installation openSUSE-11.2: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Raúl García (bgta) Description: It would be very interesting to be able to install openSUSE through Wubi and Ubuntu. So the ambassadors of openSUSE may provide users an easy installation without the need to create partitions on the disk. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306628

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[openFATE 304879] OOo: Update of KDE integration to KDE4
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 09 Jul '09

09 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Feature #304879, revision 83 Title: OOo: Update of KDE integration to KDE4 openSUSE-11.1: Rejected by JP Rosevear (jproseve) reject date: 2008-08-15 11:47:35 reject reason: As per PM recommendation. Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Stephan Binner (beineri) Description: The current OOo KDE integration (file dialogs, addressbook, interface/icon theme,...) is based on KDE3. As openSUSE 11.1/SLED 11 will likely not include KDE3 anymore it has to be upgraded to KDE4. Use Case: I will find this is really usefull. Discussion: #1: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-06-13 09:54:23) There are far too many mandatory OOo features. Please reevaluate - it's unlikely that we won't ship KDE3 apps in SLED11 #2: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) (2008-06-13 13:25:48) (reply to #1) we will ship KDE3 libs, yes. that doesn't mean that we desire to have KDE3 app dependencies ;) #7: Rajesh Ganesan (ganesanrajesh) (2009-01-07 03:20:08) Well, an excellent idea and most expected too. But (http://kde.openoffice.org/) seems struck at March 2006 itself. Any plans(or chance) of revival? #8: Armin Moradi (amoradi) (2009-01-19 19:30:45) Excellent idea, again, this brings up the consistency issue with the rest of KDE4. #9: Ruurd Pels (rfpels) (2009-03-06 22:40:10) Seems to me now that we have 4.2 in FACTORY for 11.1 we can create and release an integration package there so we will be ready by the time SLES11 goes gold. #10: jimbo bigcreed (dimble_thricefoon) (2009-06-04 16:26:13) this would be nice for 11.2 #11: Karsten König (remur) (2009-06-15 15:23:55) Good news everybody! http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~kendy/blog/archives/monthly/2009-06.html#2… (Just for tracking, most openfate users propably have seen this by now on planetsuse) #12: jimbo bigcreed (dimble_thricefoon) (2009-06-16 18:41:27) (reply to #11) dot.kde http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3983 - KDE4 integration done by the kubuntu boys #13: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-07-01 20:17:03) (reply to #12) An early OpenOffice_org-kde4 package exists in Factory so this should be change to Candidate. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/304879

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[openFATE 306581] buildservice should be readable without login
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 09 Jul '09

09 Jul '09

Feature added by: Linux Tag (LinuxTag2009) Feature #306581, revision 1 Title: buildservice should be readable without login Buildservice: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Linux Tag (linuxtag2009) Description: buildservice should be readable without login. Use Case: wouild be helpful to upstream -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306581

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[openFATE 306407] Do not make lang packages mandatory
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 09 Jul '09

09 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Ludwig Nussel (lnussel) Feature #306407, revision 8 Title: Do not make lang packages mandatory openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Vincent Untz (vuntz) Description: Right now, packages which have a split lang package have "Requires: % {name]-lang". I think that in most cases, this requires is wrong and it should really be a Recommends. FWIW, one thing that is blocking to implement this for GNOME is that the english help files automatically end up in the lang package, while they shouldn't: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=449847 Discussion: #1: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-05-07 08:59:25) The -lang and bundle packages contain also en/C data files and/or manuals. Or you sure that every application checks correctly for their absence? #2: Vincent Untz (vuntz) (2009-05-07 13:09:28) (reply to #1) Stephan: that's more or less the bug I linked to :-) We certainly need to be careful and check for this kind of stuff. #3: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-07-09 14:32:59) Coolo, could you comment on this and evaluate it, please? #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-07-09 14:35:49) (reply to #3) meanwhile I'm convinced myself that using Requires is wrong - as we're cheating anyway in only giving it e.g. german or spanish language. #5: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-07-09 14:36:29) (reply to #4) the question though is: who will do this. We should do it consistently I guess. + #6: Ludwig Nussel (lnussel) (2009-07-09 15:04:33) (reply to #5) + Consistency can be enforced later. Officially allowing/encouraging + Recommends would be quite helpful already so packages can be changed if + they need to be touched anyways. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306407

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[openFATE 306407] Do not make lang packages mandatory
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 09 Jul '09

09 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Stephan Kulow (coolo) Feature #306407, revision 7 Title: Do not make lang packages mandatory openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Desirable + Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Vincent Untz (vuntz) Description: Right now, packages which have a split lang package have "Requires: % {name]-lang". I think that in most cases, this requires is wrong and it should really be a Recommends. FWIW, one thing that is blocking to implement this for GNOME is that the english help files automatically end up in the lang package, while they shouldn't: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=449847 Discussion: #1: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-05-07 08:59:25) The -lang and bundle packages contain also en/C data files and/or manuals. Or you sure that every application checks correctly for their absence? #2: Vincent Untz (vuntz) (2009-05-07 13:09:28) (reply to #1) Stephan: that's more or less the bug I linked to :-) We certainly need to be careful and check for this kind of stuff. #3: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-07-09 14:32:59) Coolo, could you comment on this and evaluate it, please? + #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-07-09 14:35:49) (reply to #3) + meanwhile I'm convinced myself that using Requires is wrong - as we're + cheating anyway in only giving it e.g. german or spanish language. + #5: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-07-09 14:36:29) (reply to #4) + the question though is: who will do this. We should do it consistently + I guess. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306407

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[openFATE 305586] Desktop independent global notification framework
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 09 Jul '09

09 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Will Stephenson (wstephenson) Feature #305586, revision 22 Title: Desktop independent global notification framework openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Desirable Requested by: Stefan Assmann (assmannst) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Our current desktop environments lack a good, configurable notification framework like Growl on Mac OS X. With D-BUS in place we could develop/integrate a framework that is desktop independent and could serve both KDE and GNOME applications the same way. This provides one step towards integrating both desktops more closely, thus making the user experience smoother. One such notification system is already in development. It's called mumbles (http://www.mumbles-project.org/) and provides lots of features similar to Growl. * It's customizable * Has theming support * Has plugin support * Desktop independent * Can use compiz for smooth display Using such a framework, more than just integrating desktops could be achieved: * Local notifications on hardware events * Remote notifications on login/hardware events * Easy scriptability for custom notifications Steps necessary to implement such a framework in openSUSE/SLE: * Install and configure framework by default * Integrate framework configuration in desktop environment * Make framework interactive so the user can react on events (optional) * Make applications D-Bus/Notification aware, so they send events, already available: Firefox, Thunderbird, Pidgin, several others Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: Such a framework would be a huge win for the general user experience, as it makes the desktop look more integrated and smooth. It's even a good idea for SLES, so administrators can be easily notified when events occur, without the hassle to set up syslog forwarding+parsing+notifying. Discussion: #2: Guy Lunardi (glunardi) (2008-12-18 08:32:18) I agree this is an important part of the desktop platform. How is this different from the libnotify solution which I believe we use for this purpose today? It is my PM understanding it does most everything you are describing including a CLI (notify-send). Applications such as NetworkManager, PowerManager, Pidgin and Banshee. Reading their FAQ, the reason for not using libnotify is that the author wanted to put more Python dependent software on their system :- ). Is this proposal about switching from libnotify to mumbles? (honestly asking, I have no opinion) #3: Stefan Assmann (assmannst) (2008-12-18 15:46:19) (reply to #2) Honestly I have not much insighted into libnotify myself. Talking to Alex Graf about this, we came up with the idea to teach the libnotify daemon how to forward messages to mumbles. It turns out that libnotify has support for theming, so it should be possible to create a theme that forwards all events to mumbles. Then we would not have to make a decision what we should use and could just switch and see what suits us best. This way we don't lose any functionality. In my opinion mumbles looks a lot smoother than the current libnotify messages. However I guess everything possible with mumbles could be tought to libnotify as well. Frankly said I don't want to make a decision here, what I care for is that the functionality described in this fate will be integrated into our products. #4: Stefan Assmann (assmannst) (2008-12-18 16:15:56) (reply to #3) Update: Talking to the developers I just learned that mumbles will intercept libnotify messages and handle them. There's a plugin for mumbles that does that. #5: Tejun Heo (teheo) (2008-12-22 13:28:54) I think that having the notion of what a "notification" is and how the user can take "action"s to it is quite important. There are multiple classes of notifications - some are ephemeral while others must get acknowledgement from the user. For example, download complete from firefox, new driver or codec installation suggestion and smartd reporting imminent disk failures can and probably should use the same notification mechanism but they need to be handled differently. For ephemeral notifications, I think what libnotify has been doing is fine but for anything else, we at least need a way for the user to ack or take actions accordingly and review and search unacked and acked notifications. I think having such notification mechanism will help us a lot as a distro as it will enable us to suggest things in not-too-intrusive yet friendly way. #6: M. S. (funkym) (2009-01-17 13:05:51) libnotify does all that and ontop is based on a desktop independent freedesktop specification (http://galago-project.org/specs/notification/index.php) for notifications to adopt by any desktop environment. It is written in C which is much more suitable for daemons and provides bindings for D- BUS, Mono, Python and Vala. Interactive notifications are already used widely; take PackageKit as an example. The developer of growl is also interested to improve libnotify as they are closely related and friends with the maintainer. A cross desktop friendly notifications utility in Python is the right thing to make things worse. If you want the bling just create a different theme for libnotify... What libnotify needs though is a bit of coding love to implement stuff like network notifications. Switch to Mumbles -> NO! Contribute to libnotify -> YES! $2c #7: Stefan Assmann (assmannst) (2009-01-19 09:55:39) (reply to #6) It's no longer the question whether to switch from one to the other. Mumbles is able to intercept libnotify messages so we can provide it "on top" and switch. Then it's a question of defaults and what we like this to become. #10: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-07-09 10:21:44) Ubuntu is working on a notification framework well (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD) Are those in a state that we can make a decision to go one way or the other? Initially we could add it as optional package and ask for feedback with Milestone 4 - and then decide what to do. + #11: Will Stephenson (wstephenson) (2009-07-09 14:34:30) (reply to + #10) + The discussion about notification APIs is still very active on the XDG + list. I recommend not adopting either the Ubuntu proposal or the + galago derived fdo Notification spec until a standard has been agreed. + 1) The Notification spec is not a standard. Its unilateral assumption + of the org.freedesktop.Notification namespace is controversial. A + standard spec is still under discussion. + 2) The Ubuntu design makes strong and arbitrary restrictions on what + can be shown in the notification. + The intention of the current discussion is to design a notification API + that can be a superset of the Ubuntu proposal and provides the features + required by several projects outside Ubuntu. Since a productive + discussion is still taking place, making a premature decision would + undermine the XDG standards process and cause additional work when a + final spec is agreed. + -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305586

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[openFATE 306407] Do not make lang packages mandatory
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 09 Jul '09

09 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Feature #306407, revision 6 Title: Do not make lang packages mandatory openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Desirable - Projectmanager: Important Requested by: Vincent Untz (vuntz) Description: Right now, packages which have a split lang package have "Requires: % {name]-lang". I think that in most cases, this requires is wrong and it should really be a Recommends. FWIW, one thing that is blocking to implement this for GNOME is that the english help files automatically end up in the lang package, while they shouldn't: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=449847 Discussion: #1: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-05-07 08:59:25) The -lang and bundle packages contain also en/C data files and/or manuals. Or you sure that every application checks correctly for their absence? #2: Vincent Untz (vuntz) (2009-05-07 13:09:28) (reply to #1) Stephan: that's more or less the bug I linked to :-) We certainly need to be careful and check for this kind of stuff. #3: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-07-09 14:32:59) Coolo, could you comment on this and evaluate it, please? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306407

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[openFATE 306407] Do not make lang packages mandatory
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 09 Jul '09

09 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Feature #306407, revision 5 Title: Do not make lang packages mandatory - openSUSE-11.2: Unconfirmed + openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Desirable + Projectmanager: Important Requested by: Vincent Untz (vuntz) Description: Right now, packages which have a split lang package have "Requires: % {name]-lang". I think that in most cases, this requires is wrong and it should really be a Recommends. FWIW, one thing that is blocking to implement this for GNOME is that the english help files automatically end up in the lang package, while they shouldn't: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=449847 Discussion: #1: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-05-07 08:59:25) The -lang and bundle packages contain also en/C data files and/or manuals. Or you sure that every application checks correctly for their absence? #2: Vincent Untz (vuntz) (2009-05-07 13:09:28) (reply to #1) Stephan: that's more or less the bug I linked to :-) We certainly need to be careful and check for this kind of stuff. + #3: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-07-09 14:32:59) + Coolo, could you comment on this and evaluate it, please? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306407

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[openFATE 305586] Desktop independent global notification framework
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 09 Jul '09

09 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Feature #305586, revision 21 Title: Desktop independent global notification framework openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Desirable Requested by: Stefan Assmann (assmannst) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Our current desktop environments lack a good, configurable notification framework like Growl on Mac OS X. With D-BUS in place we could develop/integrate a framework that is desktop independent and could serve both KDE and GNOME applications the same way. This provides one step towards integrating both desktops more closely, thus making the user experience smoother. One such notification system is already in development. It's called mumbles (http://www.mumbles-project.org/) and provides lots of features similar to Growl. * It's customizable * Has theming support * Has plugin support * Desktop independent * Can use compiz for smooth display Using such a framework, more than just integrating desktops could be achieved: * Local notifications on hardware events * Remote notifications on login/hardware events * Easy scriptability for custom notifications Steps necessary to implement such a framework in openSUSE/SLE: * Install and configure framework by default * Integrate framework configuration in desktop environment * Make framework interactive so the user can react on events (optional) * Make applications D-Bus/Notification aware, so they send events, already available: Firefox, Thunderbird, Pidgin, several others Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: Such a framework would be a huge win for the general user experience, as it makes the desktop look more integrated and smooth. It's even a good idea for SLES, so administrators can be easily notified when events occur, without the hassle to set up syslog forwarding+parsing+notifying. Discussion: #2: Guy Lunardi (glunardi) (2008-12-18 08:32:18) I agree this is an important part of the desktop platform. How is this different from the libnotify solution which I believe we use for this purpose today? It is my PM understanding it does most everything you are describing including a CLI (notify-send). Applications such as NetworkManager, PowerManager, Pidgin and Banshee. Reading their FAQ, the reason for not using libnotify is that the author wanted to put more Python dependent software on their system :- ). Is this proposal about switching from libnotify to mumbles? (honestly asking, I have no opinion) #3: Stefan Assmann (assmannst) (2008-12-18 15:46:19) (reply to #2) Honestly I have not much insighted into libnotify myself. Talking to Alex Graf about this, we came up with the idea to teach the libnotify daemon how to forward messages to mumbles. It turns out that libnotify has support for theming, so it should be possible to create a theme that forwards all events to mumbles. Then we would not have to make a decision what we should use and could just switch and see what suits us best. This way we don't lose any functionality. In my opinion mumbles looks a lot smoother than the current libnotify messages. However I guess everything possible with mumbles could be tought to libnotify as well. Frankly said I don't want to make a decision here, what I care for is that the functionality described in this fate will be integrated into our products. #4: Stefan Assmann (assmannst) (2008-12-18 16:15:56) (reply to #3) Update: Talking to the developers I just learned that mumbles will intercept libnotify messages and handle them. There's a plugin for mumbles that does that. #5: Tejun Heo (teheo) (2008-12-22 13:28:54) I think that having the notion of what a "notification" is and how the user can take "action"s to it is quite important. There are multiple classes of notifications - some are ephemeral while others must get acknowledgement from the user. For example, download complete from firefox, new driver or codec installation suggestion and smartd reporting imminent disk failures can and probably should use the same notification mechanism but they need to be handled differently. For ephemeral notifications, I think what libnotify has been doing is fine but for anything else, we at least need a way for the user to ack or take actions accordingly and review and search unacked and acked notifications. I think having such notification mechanism will help us a lot as a distro as it will enable us to suggest things in not-too-intrusive yet friendly way. #6: M. S. (funkym) (2009-01-17 13:05:51) libnotify does all that and ontop is based on a desktop independent freedesktop specification (http://galago-project.org/specs/notification/index.php) for notifications to adopt by any desktop environment. It is written in C which is much more suitable for daemons and provides bindings for D- BUS, Mono, Python and Vala. Interactive notifications are already used widely; take PackageKit as an example. The developer of growl is also interested to improve libnotify as they are closely related and friends with the maintainer. A cross desktop friendly notifications utility in Python is the right thing to make things worse. If you want the bling just create a different theme for libnotify... What libnotify needs though is a bit of coding love to implement stuff like network notifications. Switch to Mumbles -> NO! Contribute to libnotify -> YES! $2c #7: Stefan Assmann (assmannst) (2009-01-19 09:55:39) (reply to #6) It's no longer the question whether to switch from one to the other. Mumbles is able to intercept libnotify messages so we can provide it "on top" and switch. Then it's a question of defaults and what we like this to become. + #10: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-07-09 10:21:44) + Ubuntu is working on a notification framework well + (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD) + Are those in a state that we can make a decision to go one way or the + other? + Initially we could add it as optional package and ask for feedback with + Milestone 4 - and then decide what to do. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305586

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[openFATE 306748] video4linux stream sharing with a server daemon
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 08 Jul '09

08 Jul '09

Feature added by: Brandon Philips (philipsb) Feature #306748, revision 1 Title: video4linux stream sharing with a server daemon Hackweek IV: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Brandon Philips (philipsb) Description: Video devices currently can only be open by one process at a time. This makes it impossible to do necessary things like software auto-focus or recording video while using ekiga. A server, similar to PulseAudio, is necessary to make this possible. This HackWeek project aims to work to create a v4l server. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306748

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[openFATE 306731] robot to populate BS project home:cpan
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature added by: Juergen Weigert (jnweiger) Feature #306731, revision 1 Title: robot to populate BS project home:cpan Hackweek IV: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Juergen Weigert (jnweiger) Description: Create a robot that autocreates spec files for all perl packages found on cpan.org -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306731

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[openFATE 305296] Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Segundo Luis Martín Díaz Sotomayor (zchronos) Feature #305296, revision 96 Title: Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important Requested by: JP Rosevear (jproseve) Description: We need to either have beagle off by default and allow a user to enable it the first time they search or provide an install option to turn it off. Relations: - Better Beagle Acceptance (feature/id: 303367) - Easy way to disable beagle completely during install (novell/bugzilla/id: 282678) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=282678 Discussion: #1: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-26 20:52:46) I prefer to start with disabled, offer option to run at first search. We are proliferating checkboxes in the installer too much. #8: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-02-10 15:32:39) (reply to #1) I wholehearty agree. Having specific applications in the installer is definitely something that we shouldn't do. Have it disabled by default and make it easy to enable. #9: Manuel Bejarano (mbejaranoc) (2009-02-11 09:29:51) (reply to #1) 100% agree #11: Jean-Daniel Dodin (jdd) (2009-02-15 10:12:29) (reply to #1) +1 #2: Kevin Dupuy (kdupuy9) (2009-01-29 23:40:17) I prefer a more sane option than disabling it by default... instead, allow the user to go in and uninstall it from the installation software screen, just as they would any other app (perhaps make 'Desktop Search' pattern, installed by default?) We just need to insure that uninstalling Beagle doesn't throw up any dependency errors. #3: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-01-30 00:16:23) Every single openSUSE install I've done has resulted in beagle being removed. It slows down the computer, and the firefox extension throws lots of errors. I'm quite happy with how easy it is to remove, and I can see why it's useful -- but unless its seriously improved, I think it should be removed (by default) #26: Peter Nixon (peternixon) (2009-03-11 20:39:01) (reply to #3) +1 #29: Pedro Veloso (pedrodh) (2009-04-01 22:18:05) (reply to #26) Totally agree #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-01-30 15:22:34) Maybe pulseaudio should be too, for slightly similar reasons. :) #5: Rastislav Krupansky (ra100) (2009-01-31 13:10:36) (reply to #4) exactly right ;-) #6: Thomas Beimel (rheydtergekko) (2009-02-01 16:22:09) Yes this would be an perfect option during installation. Especially because I prefer to have a new installation that consumes as less resources as possible. I do not need indexing service and I think many others as well. #7: Andri Andreas Priyanto (turtlix) (2009-02-05 11:20:44) I haven't use beagle since I install openSUSE, and maybe wouldn't or never But I don't know other user. I always remove beagle from my gnome-session-properties. #10: Johnny Stovall (oouc) (2009-02-11 22:50:14) Beagle should be disabled by default. Everyone in the DFW Linux Users Group complained when Suse added it. It causes nothing but trouble for me. #12: Bart Otten (bartotten) (2009-02-16 01:13:58) I agree with the people voting to disable it by default. I think we have to keep focus on the 'consumer' and most of them won't use Kerry/Beagle. ps. KDE4 -and- Beagle is useless. KDE4 uses Strigi and Nepomuk. #13: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-17 12:55:11) Despite all who now have voted for this proposal, I just have to vote against it. At least in the forms discussed here. I use Beagle heavily as do some other people I got convinced to use openSUSE instead of Windows. A good Desktop search was among the arguments to move these people to change their OS (others arguments were Deskbar etc... which btw. does not necessarily need Beagle but gets some interesting advantages IF Beagle is activated). Why not simply ask at startup how to configure some basic system defaults. Among them there could be beagle. So concerning the proposals of Federico Lucifredi, Stephan Kulow and so on, I am definitively of the same mind. Beagle should be installed by default, but it should be easy to switch it "on" or "off" whenever one wants. #14: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-18 01:05:18) (reply to #13) Yes, a search is very useful. Yes, some people find beagle beneficial (as apparently you do). But the vast majority (Currently the vote is at 47:1) of people it doesn't work well with. And that's truly an amazing statistic, as it's super easy to see and use the feature it provides but much harder to see that it's beagle causing so many (resource related) problems. And if that statistic alone isn't enough to convince you it's not a sensible default, then I have absolutely no idea how to. There really should be a resemblance of QA in place, especially for default (and completely optional) packages. #15: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 12:04:23) (reply to #14) Ok, I hope that my comment did not sound as gruff or ... brusque, for I, basically, hoped to present a different opinion. What I did not intend was to, evidently, irritate somebody by not completely assenting to his opinion. See: I am working for a university in Germany. We have 45.000 students and a staff of employees of a size appropriate for this amount of students. We rely heavily on the capabilities of a search system (to be honest: in this case not beagle, but somethings similar to beagle). I am one person who posts here but, to stay in your line of argumentation, statistically I represent so many single individuals, that my vote could be multiplied by a "pretty fight factor". Now the problem is that most of these people just use a search feature but do not understand of configure it. But they will notice when it is gone . These users do not vote, they are not involved in community work, they are not programmers, not system architects, not members of an online community. But they use systems like beagle. I know, as I stated in my first post, some people, which I got to switch their OS, from Windows to openSUSE. These people will miss features, too. Especially if you are so eager so simple remove this feature despite the fact that it was part of the distribution for many years. The more I write here, the angrier I get. I mentioned that Lucifredi and Kulow are of another opinion (disable but no remove the software; make it possible to switch it on or off when needed), an opinion I agree with. Is it possible that YOU ignored that part? This is quite normale for the usual open source community. To me it is a relatively illusive concept, the more I deal with it (and I deal with it for now 9 years) the more I learn about the ignorance it contains. Too many people choose rather to ignore those who have to vote (usually called users) and instead see their opinion as the ultimate measure to decide pro and contra. Did it come to your mind that about 80-90% of those who start to create an account for a portal like openFATE, who pay the time to write some comments and skip through all these proposals in this portal, that 80-90% of these people might perhaps be programmers? Geeks and nerds as they are called nowadays. This is no real statistic representing the opinion of those who use a software, it is a statistic of those how develop a software. Make this clear to you. So to get back on a rather rational level: I recognize that you are of another opinion. That most of the people here are. But, and that was important to me, these votes in here are not a real representation of opinions. I prefer openSUSE after all these years espcially because it was bought by Novell. Because they do research in usability, which is the only real way to ask the customers/the users, how to design the software. That is why I said, that an easy startup QA for the normal user is the best to do. Do not be too ignorant. The users know what they want, even if they miss some technical versatily, they will still take note of features that are missing, of bugs in the browser, of missing parts in the system "that they know worked on a different OS" or whatever else. Perhaps they annot name the source of the problem and do not know if it is a real design issue or a real bug. But they will say that the feature is not how they expected it to be. I recently said to a colleague of mine that the times of Mac OS are nearly over. The only real advantage they have is that they can design an OS without paying too much attention to different hardware. They know exactly which hardware their OS will possible have to run on. If Linux with a nice GNOME, KDE, or-whatever-desktop would run out of the box on ANY posible hardware, with all features running without a problem (Audio, Bluetooth, 3D Graphics are still a problem as we know) it would be undeniable that Linux will be the winner. I see progress made well into that direction. I see that Linux is close to this goal, to solve these issues in nears time (most Graphic Cards now easily work, with only a few exceptions). So please do not disappoint me. I have to lead discussions about Linux/Windows and Linux/MacOSX nearly every week. I do not want to have them led in vain. Look at what Mac and Windows do, they have a search system with an index. Make ours betters, faster and less memory hungry instead of removing it. These who switch from Windows/Mac to Linux (for instance to openSUSE) want to find new and more useful features instead of fewer features. I know this post was too long. I am sorry, but it thought it necessary. #16: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-19 14:33:07) (reply to #15) I agree with everything you said, but you must realize I/we aren't arguing against search. We're arguing against beagle. I personally use google desktop search on a daily basis. And it works well. I assume that it does all its work when I'm not physically using the computer (a policy that is ideal for desktop usage). I'm not advocating its inclusion (primarily license reasons and kde integration reasons) but you should see that I'm not against a search or anything like that. Beagle on the other hand, I've tried to give it a fair shot a few times. To see if it has improved (something I will admit Banshee has done). But its *always* problematic. Something that is echoed daily on IRC and the mailing lists. The firefox extension causes huge amounts errors and slow downs. The actual search program maxs out the CPU. IO brings the computer to a crawl when I need to get work done etc. It's just not pretty. So if Beagle works well, I'd love to use it. But it doesn't and shouldn't be included. Put it this way. I would really like to see kernel initialization of graphics devices. However, until it's finished and works properly -- I think we'd both agree that it shouldn't be on our systems. I know it's not a good test for everything, but have you noticed how many other desktop distros have chosen to include beagle? #17: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:16:48) (reply to #16) Ok, I see your point. Perhaps beagle is indeed not a good solution and I was too narrow minded to realize it. (Though I haven't experienced the CPU problems anymore for about one year, I suppose you are right). Especially since the development of beagle has come to a crawl (the last release: 0.3.9 was released about four weeks ago but it needed nearly half a year to be released and contains only some mere bug fixes). I think, I am going to open a new feature request in openFate. If you (and the other guys) are not against desktop search, but instead against beagle, it could be interesting to discuss why Tracker (http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/index.html) should not become a replacement for beagle. Especially since KDE has now Strigi as a core component. So one can get rid of beagle and use some "quasi native" tools for desktop search (namely "strigi" and "tracker") on Gnome and, respectively, KDE. Anyway, thanks for your reply and the discussion. #18: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:23:53) (reply to #17) Hm, as it seems I cannot open such a request. Wonderful! So perhaps somebody has read this discussion and might be so kind to at least evaluate the request and "perhaps" might open a new feature request concerning the replacement of beagle by Tracker (which is a Gnome Desktop search, but since KDE has already its own Desktop search this should not be that problematic... I hope) And before somebody asks: no I will not file a feature request via bug tracking system. Those usually take weeks or even months before they are answered/evaluated/discussed etc... #19: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-02-19 16:52:12) (reply to #18) Hello Sebastian - I do not take the thread as being "against desktop search", which is a great feature, or against Beagle, which I personally run. The decision is only to have Beagle not be running by default out of the box, but to have it installed and ready. The first time a search is performed, we ask. Users who want desktop search select to run it, and those who are more "frugal" in terms of CPU do not. I am running a 3 year old laptop, and Beagle is running just fine for me. I suspect that's the case for a lot of people. But it is still a good idea to ask for a choice. #20: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-22 03:03:55) (reply to #17) 100% agree. I think tracker/strigi make wonderful replacements. :) #22: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-02-25 00:40:51) (reply to #20) indeed... beagle is to heavy, traker instead, is simply wonderful! #23: Barbara Hudson (barbie_h) (2009-03-04 02:22:21) (reply to #15) I was going to vote in favour of the request, because I've been bitten by beagle bringing machines to a crawl many times, but one thing I've noticed is that, as people move to dual / quad -core machines, it's no longer a big issue. I'm not saying ignore the memory and resource problems - just that even laptops nowadays can run plasma and beagle and still feel responsive. The current system, where it notifies you when it does the initial indexing, is a lot better than the computer slowing to a crawl on a fresh install and people wondering why openSUSE is soooo slow. #21: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2009-02-24 09:10:56) Coolo, I believe this should be done via patterns. #24: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:52:23) (reply to #21) having a desktop search easy to enable sounds like a good to have feature, so I wouldn't simply remove the package from install. But it doesn't make sense on a KDE4 desktop (and it's not there in 11.1 afaik) and it doesn't have to be running by default for GNOME either. But this is something for the beagle maintainers to decide. #25: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:53:33) (reply to #24) that is: it should be off by default (seeing all the votes). But if it's worth to make it easier to turn it on than it is, I leave to those that know. But the solution to enable it, should be within the desktop. #27: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-03-16 18:03:00) Less than "easy way to disable beagle completey during installation" it should even be "disable beagle by default", thank you. #28: Marcel Müller (open_assistant) (2009-03-16 20:32:45) great idea, especially to my slowly pc #30: Gabriel Stein (gabrielstein) (2009-04-03 21:15:44) Totally Agree. I just post on my blog, and I will pay 5 pints of Guinness to the great developer which will do that amazing thing. #31: john andersen (jsamyth) (2009-04-16 20:22:51) I agree Beagle should be an optional item, not installed by default.   There, I've said it.   But an alternative might be to install it and restrict it't indexing BY DEFAULT to the user's home directory, (and perhaps the user's mail spool), and hava a configuration window that allows adding additional directories. That is a feature that might make it more palletable.  But realistically, when this many people arrive at a Future Feature site begging and pleading for a package to dropped from a normal installation you should assume there are some serious flaws with that package.  This site should be about new and improved features we would all like to see, but instead this thread is focused on something that has been rammed down our throats for way too many releases, and which has historically been difficult to remove.   Side issue: Unless you are a Linux Developer there is no point in having it index the entire hard drive.  Your average user has no need of these areas, and experienced users already know where things are, so a generalized indexer that searches the entire disk is a solution looking for a problem. #32: jean-christophe baptiste (phocean) (2009-04-27 11:28:48) Ok for those who want to get an easy way to disable Beagle. But it should be activated by default. I am using Beagle intensively (on Gnome) and I have never got a problem with it. It just rocks and a huge time saver to me. Maybe my hardware is just not obsolete (Core 2 duo laptop)... I think it is the kind of killer app good to show off and that can bring more new users. #33: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-05-12 20:04:51) (reply to #32) you are luky then.. beagle on my pc make them very very slower, it should be disabled by default, if you need it, then you insta/activate it #34: Marc collin (collinm) (2009-07-04 15:03:05) Disable it by default, i use kde... and there is alreay a solution for it.... we could also disable mono... #35: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-07 11:29:54) Vincent, can you do this? As it is our highest rated feature it would be very good to have implemented rather soon then later. Thanks. #36: Vincent Untz (vuntz) (2009-07-07 12:09:24) Well, it depends on what is the decision here: * if it's something that should be done during installation, I have no idea how to implement that. * If it's just disabling beagle by default, I'll need to investigate, but it hopefully only is changing something in a .desktop file. So what's the process on taking a decision here? That being said, just disabling beagle by default might expose a usability issue: if it's disabled, it will not index files. So when the user searches for something for the first time, it will not work and users won't understand it, and will just give up on it. (It might be solvable with a nice message the first time the user does a search, though) #37: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-07 14:43:12) (reply to #36) Vincent, please see #1. What you describe is exactly what Federico suggested as well. So I'd say disable beagle by default and offer option to run at first search. #38: Karl Eichwalder (keichwa) (2009-07-07 15:08:23) (reply to #37) IIRC, the kde help center works this way and it is rather annoying. Most of the time, the desktop computer idles... I think on the Mac the desktop search (spotlight) is enabled by default. #39: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-07-07 15:16:24) (reply to #38) you're wrong. Most of the time, the desktop computer saves power. #40: Karl Eichwalder (keichwa) (2009-07-07 15:36:52) (reply to #39) Yes, you are right. Once the work is done. On my desktop at work, beagled and beagled-helper do not cause any notable load. It's different on my test machine, though. #41: Dean Hilkewich (deanjo13) (2009-07-07 16:36:55) (reply to #38) When it comes to indexing services spotlight is far ahead of beagle in usability and performance. It is also easily disabled with a system setting if desired. Even on old G4's spotlight doesn't kill performance like beagle does. + #42: Segundo Luis Martín Díaz Sotomayor (zchronos) (2009-07-07 17:47: + 18) + Beagle should be disabled by default. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305296

1 0

[openFATE 305296] Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Dean Hilkewich (deanjo13) Feature #305296, revision 95 Title: Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important Requested by: JP Rosevear (jproseve) Description: We need to either have beagle off by default and allow a user to enable it the first time they search or provide an install option to turn it off. Relations: - Better Beagle Acceptance (feature/id: 303367) - Easy way to disable beagle completely during install (novell/bugzilla/id: 282678) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=282678 Discussion: #1: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-26 20:52:46) I prefer to start with disabled, offer option to run at first search. We are proliferating checkboxes in the installer too much. #8: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-02-10 15:32:39) (reply to #1) I wholehearty agree. Having specific applications in the installer is definitely something that we shouldn't do. Have it disabled by default and make it easy to enable. #9: Manuel Bejarano (mbejaranoc) (2009-02-11 09:29:51) (reply to #1) 100% agree #11: Jean-Daniel Dodin (jdd) (2009-02-15 10:12:29) (reply to #1) +1 #2: Kevin Dupuy (kdupuy9) (2009-01-29 23:40:17) I prefer a more sane option than disabling it by default... instead, allow the user to go in and uninstall it from the installation software screen, just as they would any other app (perhaps make 'Desktop Search' pattern, installed by default?) We just need to insure that uninstalling Beagle doesn't throw up any dependency errors. #3: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-01-30 00:16:23) Every single openSUSE install I've done has resulted in beagle being removed. It slows down the computer, and the firefox extension throws lots of errors. I'm quite happy with how easy it is to remove, and I can see why it's useful -- but unless its seriously improved, I think it should be removed (by default) #26: Peter Nixon (peternixon) (2009-03-11 20:39:01) (reply to #3) +1 #29: Pedro Veloso (pedrodh) (2009-04-01 22:18:05) (reply to #26) Totally agree #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-01-30 15:22:34) Maybe pulseaudio should be too, for slightly similar reasons. :) #5: Rastislav Krupansky (ra100) (2009-01-31 13:10:36) (reply to #4) exactly right ;-) #6: Thomas Beimel (rheydtergekko) (2009-02-01 16:22:09) Yes this would be an perfect option during installation. Especially because I prefer to have a new installation that consumes as less resources as possible. I do not need indexing service and I think many others as well. #7: Andri Andreas Priyanto (turtlix) (2009-02-05 11:20:44) I haven't use beagle since I install openSUSE, and maybe wouldn't or never But I don't know other user. I always remove beagle from my gnome-session-properties. #10: Johnny Stovall (oouc) (2009-02-11 22:50:14) Beagle should be disabled by default. Everyone in the DFW Linux Users Group complained when Suse added it. It causes nothing but trouble for me. #12: Bart Otten (bartotten) (2009-02-16 01:13:58) I agree with the people voting to disable it by default. I think we have to keep focus on the 'consumer' and most of them won't use Kerry/Beagle. ps. KDE4 -and- Beagle is useless. KDE4 uses Strigi and Nepomuk. #13: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-17 12:55:11) Despite all who now have voted for this proposal, I just have to vote against it. At least in the forms discussed here. I use Beagle heavily as do some other people I got convinced to use openSUSE instead of Windows. A good Desktop search was among the arguments to move these people to change their OS (others arguments were Deskbar etc... which btw. does not necessarily need Beagle but gets some interesting advantages IF Beagle is activated). Why not simply ask at startup how to configure some basic system defaults. Among them there could be beagle. So concerning the proposals of Federico Lucifredi, Stephan Kulow and so on, I am definitively of the same mind. Beagle should be installed by default, but it should be easy to switch it "on" or "off" whenever one wants. #14: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-18 01:05:18) (reply to #13) Yes, a search is very useful. Yes, some people find beagle beneficial (as apparently you do). But the vast majority (Currently the vote is at 47:1) of people it doesn't work well with. And that's truly an amazing statistic, as it's super easy to see and use the feature it provides but much harder to see that it's beagle causing so many (resource related) problems. And if that statistic alone isn't enough to convince you it's not a sensible default, then I have absolutely no idea how to. There really should be a resemblance of QA in place, especially for default (and completely optional) packages. #15: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 12:04:23) (reply to #14) Ok, I hope that my comment did not sound as gruff or ... brusque, for I, basically, hoped to present a different opinion. What I did not intend was to, evidently, irritate somebody by not completely assenting to his opinion. See: I am working for a university in Germany. We have 45.000 students and a staff of employees of a size appropriate for this amount of students. We rely heavily on the capabilities of a search system (to be honest: in this case not beagle, but somethings similar to beagle). I am one person who posts here but, to stay in your line of argumentation, statistically I represent so many single individuals, that my vote could be multiplied by a "pretty fight factor". Now the problem is that most of these people just use a search feature but do not understand of configure it. But they will notice when it is gone . These users do not vote, they are not involved in community work, they are not programmers, not system architects, not members of an online community. But they use systems like beagle. I know, as I stated in my first post, some people, which I got to switch their OS, from Windows to openSUSE. These people will miss features, too. Especially if you are so eager so simple remove this feature despite the fact that it was part of the distribution for many years. The more I write here, the angrier I get. I mentioned that Lucifredi and Kulow are of another opinion (disable but no remove the software; make it possible to switch it on or off when needed), an opinion I agree with. Is it possible that YOU ignored that part? This is quite normale for the usual open source community. To me it is a relatively illusive concept, the more I deal with it (and I deal with it for now 9 years) the more I learn about the ignorance it contains. Too many people choose rather to ignore those who have to vote (usually called users) and instead see their opinion as the ultimate measure to decide pro and contra. Did it come to your mind that about 80-90% of those who start to create an account for a portal like openFATE, who pay the time to write some comments and skip through all these proposals in this portal, that 80-90% of these people might perhaps be programmers? Geeks and nerds as they are called nowadays. This is no real statistic representing the opinion of those who use a software, it is a statistic of those how develop a software. Make this clear to you. So to get back on a rather rational level: I recognize that you are of another opinion. That most of the people here are. But, and that was important to me, these votes in here are not a real representation of opinions. I prefer openSUSE after all these years espcially because it was bought by Novell. Because they do research in usability, which is the only real way to ask the customers/the users, how to design the software. That is why I said, that an easy startup QA for the normal user is the best to do. Do not be too ignorant. The users know what they want, even if they miss some technical versatily, they will still take note of features that are missing, of bugs in the browser, of missing parts in the system "that they know worked on a different OS" or whatever else. Perhaps they annot name the source of the problem and do not know if it is a real design issue or a real bug. But they will say that the feature is not how they expected it to be. I recently said to a colleague of mine that the times of Mac OS are nearly over. The only real advantage they have is that they can design an OS without paying too much attention to different hardware. They know exactly which hardware their OS will possible have to run on. If Linux with a nice GNOME, KDE, or-whatever-desktop would run out of the box on ANY posible hardware, with all features running without a problem (Audio, Bluetooth, 3D Graphics are still a problem as we know) it would be undeniable that Linux will be the winner. I see progress made well into that direction. I see that Linux is close to this goal, to solve these issues in nears time (most Graphic Cards now easily work, with only a few exceptions). So please do not disappoint me. I have to lead discussions about Linux/Windows and Linux/MacOSX nearly every week. I do not want to have them led in vain. Look at what Mac and Windows do, they have a search system with an index. Make ours betters, faster and less memory hungry instead of removing it. These who switch from Windows/Mac to Linux (for instance to openSUSE) want to find new and more useful features instead of fewer features. I know this post was too long. I am sorry, but it thought it necessary. #16: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-19 14:33:07) (reply to #15) I agree with everything you said, but you must realize I/we aren't arguing against search. We're arguing against beagle. I personally use google desktop search on a daily basis. And it works well. I assume that it does all its work when I'm not physically using the computer (a policy that is ideal for desktop usage). I'm not advocating its inclusion (primarily license reasons and kde integration reasons) but you should see that I'm not against a search or anything like that. Beagle on the other hand, I've tried to give it a fair shot a few times. To see if it has improved (something I will admit Banshee has done). But its *always* problematic. Something that is echoed daily on IRC and the mailing lists. The firefox extension causes huge amounts errors and slow downs. The actual search program maxs out the CPU. IO brings the computer to a crawl when I need to get work done etc. It's just not pretty. So if Beagle works well, I'd love to use it. But it doesn't and shouldn't be included. Put it this way. I would really like to see kernel initialization of graphics devices. However, until it's finished and works properly -- I think we'd both agree that it shouldn't be on our systems. I know it's not a good test for everything, but have you noticed how many other desktop distros have chosen to include beagle? #17: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:16:48) (reply to #16) Ok, I see your point. Perhaps beagle is indeed not a good solution and I was too narrow minded to realize it. (Though I haven't experienced the CPU problems anymore for about one year, I suppose you are right). Especially since the development of beagle has come to a crawl (the last release: 0.3.9 was released about four weeks ago but it needed nearly half a year to be released and contains only some mere bug fixes). I think, I am going to open a new feature request in openFate. If you (and the other guys) are not against desktop search, but instead against beagle, it could be interesting to discuss why Tracker (http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/index.html) should not become a replacement for beagle. Especially since KDE has now Strigi as a core component. So one can get rid of beagle and use some "quasi native" tools for desktop search (namely "strigi" and "tracker") on Gnome and, respectively, KDE. Anyway, thanks for your reply and the discussion. #18: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:23:53) (reply to #17) Hm, as it seems I cannot open such a request. Wonderful! So perhaps somebody has read this discussion and might be so kind to at least evaluate the request and "perhaps" might open a new feature request concerning the replacement of beagle by Tracker (which is a Gnome Desktop search, but since KDE has already its own Desktop search this should not be that problematic... I hope) And before somebody asks: no I will not file a feature request via bug tracking system. Those usually take weeks or even months before they are answered/evaluated/discussed etc... #19: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-02-19 16:52:12) (reply to #18) Hello Sebastian - I do not take the thread as being "against desktop search", which is a great feature, or against Beagle, which I personally run. The decision is only to have Beagle not be running by default out of the box, but to have it installed and ready. The first time a search is performed, we ask. Users who want desktop search select to run it, and those who are more "frugal" in terms of CPU do not. I am running a 3 year old laptop, and Beagle is running just fine for me. I suspect that's the case for a lot of people. But it is still a good idea to ask for a choice. #20: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-22 03:03:55) (reply to #17) 100% agree. I think tracker/strigi make wonderful replacements. :) #22: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-02-25 00:40:51) (reply to #20) indeed... beagle is to heavy, traker instead, is simply wonderful! #23: Barbara Hudson (barbie_h) (2009-03-04 02:22:21) (reply to #15) I was going to vote in favour of the request, because I've been bitten by beagle bringing machines to a crawl many times, but one thing I've noticed is that, as people move to dual / quad -core machines, it's no longer a big issue. I'm not saying ignore the memory and resource problems - just that even laptops nowadays can run plasma and beagle and still feel responsive. The current system, where it notifies you when it does the initial indexing, is a lot better than the computer slowing to a crawl on a fresh install and people wondering why openSUSE is soooo slow. #21: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2009-02-24 09:10:56) Coolo, I believe this should be done via patterns. #24: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:52:23) (reply to #21) having a desktop search easy to enable sounds like a good to have feature, so I wouldn't simply remove the package from install. But it doesn't make sense on a KDE4 desktop (and it's not there in 11.1 afaik) and it doesn't have to be running by default for GNOME either. But this is something for the beagle maintainers to decide. #25: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:53:33) (reply to #24) that is: it should be off by default (seeing all the votes). But if it's worth to make it easier to turn it on than it is, I leave to those that know. But the solution to enable it, should be within the desktop. #27: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-03-16 18:03:00) Less than "easy way to disable beagle completey during installation" it should even be "disable beagle by default", thank you. #28: Marcel Müller (open_assistant) (2009-03-16 20:32:45) great idea, especially to my slowly pc #30: Gabriel Stein (gabrielstein) (2009-04-03 21:15:44) Totally Agree. I just post on my blog, and I will pay 5 pints of Guinness to the great developer which will do that amazing thing. #31: john andersen (jsamyth) (2009-04-16 20:22:51) I agree Beagle should be an optional item, not installed by default.   There, I've said it.   But an alternative might be to install it and restrict it't indexing BY DEFAULT to the user's home directory, (and perhaps the user's mail spool), and hava a configuration window that allows adding additional directories. That is a feature that might make it more palletable.  But realistically, when this many people arrive at a Future Feature site begging and pleading for a package to dropped from a normal installation you should assume there are some serious flaws with that package.  This site should be about new and improved features we would all like to see, but instead this thread is focused on something that has been rammed down our throats for way too many releases, and which has historically been difficult to remove.   Side issue: Unless you are a Linux Developer there is no point in having it index the entire hard drive.  Your average user has no need of these areas, and experienced users already know where things are, so a generalized indexer that searches the entire disk is a solution looking for a problem. #32: jean-christophe baptiste (phocean) (2009-04-27 11:28:48) Ok for those who want to get an easy way to disable Beagle. But it should be activated by default. I am using Beagle intensively (on Gnome) and I have never got a problem with it. It just rocks and a huge time saver to me. Maybe my hardware is just not obsolete (Core 2 duo laptop)... I think it is the kind of killer app good to show off and that can bring more new users. #33: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-05-12 20:04:51) (reply to #32) you are luky then.. beagle on my pc make them very very slower, it should be disabled by default, if you need it, then you insta/activate it #34: Marc collin (collinm) (2009-07-04 15:03:05) Disable it by default, i use kde... and there is alreay a solution for it.... we could also disable mono... #35: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-07 11:29:54) Vincent, can you do this? As it is our highest rated feature it would be very good to have implemented rather soon then later. Thanks. #36: Vincent Untz (vuntz) (2009-07-07 12:09:24) Well, it depends on what is the decision here: * if it's something that should be done during installation, I have no idea how to implement that. * If it's just disabling beagle by default, I'll need to investigate, but it hopefully only is changing something in a .desktop file. So what's the process on taking a decision here? That being said, just disabling beagle by default might expose a usability issue: if it's disabled, it will not index files. So when the user searches for something for the first time, it will not work and users won't understand it, and will just give up on it. (It might be solvable with a nice message the first time the user does a search, though) #37: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-07 14:43:12) (reply to #36) Vincent, please see #1. What you describe is exactly what Federico suggested as well. So I'd say disable beagle by default and offer option to run at first search. #38: Karl Eichwalder (keichwa) (2009-07-07 15:08:23) (reply to #37) IIRC, the kde help center works this way and it is rather annoying. Most of the time, the desktop computer idles... I think on the Mac the desktop search (spotlight) is enabled by default. #39: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-07-07 15:16:24) (reply to #38) you're wrong. Most of the time, the desktop computer saves power. #40: Karl Eichwalder (keichwa) (2009-07-07 15:36:52) (reply to #39) Yes, you are right. Once the work is done. On my desktop at work, beagled and beagled-helper do not cause any notable load. It's different on my test machine, though. + #41: Dean Hilkewich (deanjo13) (2009-07-07 16:36:55) (reply to #38) + When it comes to indexing services spotlight is far ahead of beagle in + usability and performance. It is also easily disabled with a system + setting if desired. Even on old G4's spotlight doesn't kill + performance like beagle does. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305296

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[openFATE 305553] zypper: dist upgrade could error out if more than one repository exists
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Michael Schröder (mlschroe) Feature #305553, revision 16 Title: zypper: dist upgrade could error out if more than one repository exists openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important Requested by: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) Description: I've just learned over lunch that calling "zypper dup" is wrong if you have both buildservice repositories and a distribution repository enabled. apparently one has to call it with -r name, where name points to the distribution one wants to upgrade to, and the other repositories (e.g. buildservice addons) must not be dup'ed, but only updated via update -t package. I've verified that this indeed fixes the "reinstalling/downgrading package" issues everyone seems to be complaining about. It would be nice if zypp/zypper could detect this situation and advise the user, or alternatively do the right thing automatically. I'm not sure if channels of distributions (e.g. the factory channel, or a future openSUSE 11.0 channel) can be detected in some way.. if it does, then it could automatically add the -r argument if there is only one distribution channel enabled, and altneratively error out if more than one distribution channel is in the sources list and no -r argument was given. Relations: - make zypper dup error out if more than one repository exists (novell/bugzilla/id: 385972) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=385972 Discussion: #1: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-05-11 02:20:39) * ** Bug 388956 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** #2: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-10 15:31:24) Hm. If that is so, this feature is really important :O) Just a side question: how does installation handle this (if at all)? Currently they can't, we need to add means of such identification (as well as identification of update repos). yup, sounds good #3: Lukas Ocilka (locilka) (2008-05-12 06:17:43) Installation/Upgrade has the installation repository registered as the fist one, then Add-Ons or other repositories can be added or enabled. Upgrade doesn't handle how the packages are selected to be upgraded, it just calls solver. OK, some packages are dropped by installation by default :) See bug #300540. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-05-12 06:25:06) the main difference: it's pretty unusual to have 13 repos during distribution update with very comparable versions. While it's not to for zypper dup. BTW: another difference: installations sets YAST_IS_RUNNING=instsys, which some packages cause not to produce errors on updates. This might be good for dup, but bad for update #5: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-10 16:56:35) Note, I moved the bugzilla entry to fate, but mls claims the bug is invalid, as it is a perfect use case to do dist upgrade with various repositories. So this feature has to be evaluated with care and gathering opinions from various sources. It may be invalid. #7: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2008-12-11 07:58:04) (reply to #5) I don't think it is invalid; I happened to downgrade several packages from OSS repo via zypper dup :-( #8: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-11 10:10:32) (reply to #7) The solution of stop-with-error if there is more than one repository is invalid because prevent the valid usecase of dist-upgrading with more than one repo enabled (as mls pointed out). What is valid about the feature, is that multiple repo upgrade can be dangerous, and we may warn the user if there are repos for different products there. #9: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2008-12-11 10:53:42) (reply to #8) Sorry for not being precise in my comment: of course user must be able to override this error/warning/whatever. #6: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-10 18:34:19) Idea from mls: Use the CPE ids introduced in 11.1 to issue a warning if repositories are mixed. #10: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-06-24 09:33:26) Michael, is this still relevant? Is this related to the planned --from option? #11: Michael Schröder (mlschroe) (2009-06-24 11:33:46) (reply to #10) This has nothing to do with --from, it's about doint 'zypper dup' to update the system to the next release while still having old repositories enabled. #12: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-07 16:26:43) (reply to #11) So multiple repositories are not a problem in general, but multiple repos for different products are! OK, so now back to the solution: can you tell me or point me to some info abou these CPEs Duncan mentions in c#6? I guess they are part of the product solvable and are available as solv attribute? If so, all that's needed is to check whether there are multiple repos with a different product and write a warning if that's the case, right? + #13: Michael Schröder (mlschroe) (2009-07-07 16:34:14) (reply to #12) + ma, is there a libzypp interface? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305553

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[openFATE 305553] zypper: dist upgrade could error out if more than one repository exists
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Ján Kupec (jkupec) Feature #305553, revision 15 Title: zypper: dist upgrade could error out if more than one repository exists openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important Requested by: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) Description: I've just learned over lunch that calling "zypper dup" is wrong if you have both buildservice repositories and a distribution repository enabled. apparently one has to call it with -r name, where name points to the distribution one wants to upgrade to, and the other repositories (e.g. buildservice addons) must not be dup'ed, but only updated via update -t package. I've verified that this indeed fixes the "reinstalling/downgrading package" issues everyone seems to be complaining about. It would be nice if zypp/zypper could detect this situation and advise the user, or alternatively do the right thing automatically. I'm not sure if channels of distributions (e.g. the factory channel, or a future openSUSE 11.0 channel) can be detected in some way.. if it does, then it could automatically add the -r argument if there is only one distribution channel enabled, and altneratively error out if more than one distribution channel is in the sources list and no -r argument was given. Relations: - make zypper dup error out if more than one repository exists (novell/bugzilla/id: 385972) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=385972 Discussion: #1: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-05-11 02:20:39) * ** Bug 388956 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** #2: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-10 15:31:24) Hm. If that is so, this feature is really important :O) Just a side question: how does installation handle this (if at all)? Currently they can't, we need to add means of such identification (as well as identification of update repos). yup, sounds good #3: Lukas Ocilka (locilka) (2008-05-12 06:17:43) Installation/Upgrade has the installation repository registered as the fist one, then Add-Ons or other repositories can be added or enabled. Upgrade doesn't handle how the packages are selected to be upgraded, it just calls solver. OK, some packages are dropped by installation by default :) See bug #300540. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-05-12 06:25:06) the main difference: it's pretty unusual to have 13 repos during distribution update with very comparable versions. While it's not to for zypper dup. BTW: another difference: installations sets YAST_IS_RUNNING=instsys, which some packages cause not to produce errors on updates. This might be good for dup, but bad for update #5: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-10 16:56:35) Note, I moved the bugzilla entry to fate, but mls claims the bug is invalid, as it is a perfect use case to do dist upgrade with various repositories. So this feature has to be evaluated with care and gathering opinions from various sources. It may be invalid. #7: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2008-12-11 07:58:04) (reply to #5) I don't think it is invalid; I happened to downgrade several packages from OSS repo via zypper dup :-( #8: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-11 10:10:32) (reply to #7) The solution of stop-with-error if there is more than one repository is invalid because prevent the valid usecase of dist-upgrading with more than one repo enabled (as mls pointed out). What is valid about the feature, is that multiple repo upgrade can be dangerous, and we may warn the user if there are repos for different products there. #9: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2008-12-11 10:53:42) (reply to #8) Sorry for not being precise in my comment: of course user must be able to override this error/warning/whatever. #6: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-10 18:34:19) Idea from mls: Use the CPE ids introduced in 11.1 to issue a warning if repositories are mixed. #10: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-06-24 09:33:26) Michael, is this still relevant? Is this related to the planned --from option? #11: Michael Schröder (mlschroe) (2009-06-24 11:33:46) (reply to #10) This has nothing to do with --from, it's about doint 'zypper dup' to update the system to the next release while still having old repositories enabled. + #12: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-07 16:26:43) (reply to #11) + So multiple repositories are not a problem in general, but multiple + repos for different products are! OK, so now back to the solution: can + you tell me or point me to some info abou these CPEs Duncan mentions in + c#6? I guess they are part of the product solvable and are available as + solv attribute? + If so, all that's needed is to check whether there are multiple repos + with a different product and write a warning if that's the case, + right? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305553

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[openFATE 305503] zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Ján Kupec (jkupec) Feature #305503, revision 24 Title: zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories openSUSE-11.2: Candidate Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Description: YUM security plugin allows to filter updates showing only ones that mention certain issues. Example: yum update --security yum update --bz 410101 yum update --cve CVE-2007-5707 --advisory RHSA-2007:1082-5 As our patches contains this metadata, we could add similar functionality to zypper. Scope The scope is only for zypper. Other front ends would require some GUI concept first. Open Issues: libzypp's PoolQuery would need support for subattributes (updateinfo. xml references are stored as subarrays) User experience * Adds command line options like the ones described above. Dependencies * libzypp Contingency Plan * Feature is new, so in a bad scenario it can simple be deactivated. Relations: - updateinfo XML scheme (url: http://git.opensuse.org/?p=projects/zypp/libzypp.git;a=blob_plain;f=zypp/pa…) - Tips and tricks: yum-security (url: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) Documentation Impact: New command line options would need to be documented. Test Case: The testing of this feature can be done creating a repository (for example using enhancerepo) containing patches that reference issues, like described in http://en.opensuse.org/Maintenance/Code11/Howto , and then performing updates passing to zypper command line the issues, confirming that only those issues are shown. Use Case: Sysadmin is only interested in particular updates to solve security issues or specific bug numbers or advisories. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: Sysadmins do not update ther systems without a strict process and maximum care. Therefore it is very important to allow them to update the system to fix a single issue. It would save them the time to look that themselves package per package. Discussion: #1: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2008-12-03 14:51:14) Random notes: - CVE-XXXX-YYYY RPM provides after fixing issues? - OVAL relation? #2: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:02:46) (reply to #1) About CVE provides. Right now the CVE information is in the patch (since 11.0). I don't have anything against having it as Fix(CVE-XXX-XXX) provides, but I am not sure if having them in both makes sense. Specially in the case that one issue needs more than one package, you will need to install all packages fixing the issue, and if you have 2 repos with 2 same packages providing the issue, they will conflict. #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:08:13) (reply to #1) I don't have knowledge how OVAL works, may be you can provide some very concrete example scenarios for the feature described above. What I can say is that the reason why the repository/product compatibility and update information in SLE11/openSUSE 11.1 is supported using CPE ( that is, product can contain a CPE id, and repos can tell to which CPE they are compatible and which CPE they update with fixes ) was to enhance our ability to do semantic queries like relate upstream security issues and installed products. OVAL uses CPE as the platform descriptor AFAIK. #4: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) (2008-12-04 14:58:01) adding rpm provides was also my first idea, but that has a side effect: often enough, CVE numbers are not yet known when the package is built and ends up in QA, and editing rpm provides essentially needs a rebuild, which invalidates QA. so preferably we need a way to update the rpm provides without doing a rebuild (bad) or we need a way to add it to the meta information (which is currently generated via patchinfo and where it is also too late). an idealistic approach would be to make sure that we can update this meta information after patchinfo checkin (entering the data into swamp and autobuild fetches that information when the update is released and adds it to the meta info). #5: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-07 15:52:34) This has quite a bit of customer value. BTW, there may be a duplicate out there #6: Michael Andres (mlandres) (2009-07-01 18:33:01) libzypp-6.9.2 supports PoolQuery of subattributes. So one can e.g search for patches with updateReferenceId "CVE-2007-5707', or of updateReferenceType 'bugzilla",... (I'll provide some sample code) @Jano: I'll provide some code example, that tells how to access and iterate the matching updateReferences. So you could start working on zypper. #7: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:10:56) Thanx! I have a question about the reference types. What types do we support? in updateinfo.rnc (see references) i only see bugzilla and cve Do we want separate options for all supported types, like yum has? #9: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:57:19) (reply to #7) Also, i noticed in 11.1 updates repository, that many bugs have a CVE, but it's only in the description, not in the 'reference' metadata. Only bugzilla is in 'reference'. Do we want to address this? #10: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2009-07-03 15:59:21) (reply to #9) we are not emitting it yet. this also needs to be done :/ #8: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:20:18) Suggestion how the commands could look like: $ zypper fix --search [string] $ zypper fix --bugzilla <#> $ zypper fix --cve <#> #11: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) (2009-07-04 12:11:44) (reply to #8) Please re-think about introducing another term ( fix ), we already have * update * upgrade * patch #12: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-07 10:11:04) (reply to #11) What i try to achieve is to have a way to install the patches fixing the issues and a way to list them (issue number & patch name & (patch) description), search in them. The other alternatives i considered were: $ zypper patch [--bugzilla #] [--cve #] $ zypper list-patches --issues [string] The first command looks nice, but i don't know what to use to list/search the issues - the list-patches command does not seem right to me - looks more like it deserved a new command. $ zypper install [--bugzilla #] [--cve #] $ zypper search --issues [string] In this case, like in the 'list-patches --issues' case, the search command would either need to radically change its output, or user would need to call 'zypper patch-info the_found_patch' to get the patch description. Any other ideas? Why is having a new command a bad thing (esp. compared to having new options in the existing commands)? BTW: (We don't have 'upgrade' :O) #13: Martin Vidner (mvidner) (2009-07-07 14:33:03) (reply to #12) Why reinvent the wheel? Can we just copy yum's interface as described in the referenced yum-security article? * http://magazine.redhat.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/ (http://magazine.redhat.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) * http://linux.die.net/man/8/yum-security (http://linux.die.net/man/8/yum-security) #14: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-07 14:57:27) (reply to #13) 'zypper update' does not work with patches. 'zypper patch' looks to me like better candidate for new --bz or --cve options. yum does not make difference between these two. The yum plugin also adds a new command (list-sec), which was Klaus' objection. #15: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) (2009-07-07 15:51:26) (reply to #14) Well, my objection is the new term 'fix' besides 'update' and 'patch' and will confuse people. It should be an option to "list" or "list-patches" imho + #16: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-07 16:16:12) (reply to #15) + OK, so far the following looks like a candidate (taken yum into account + as well): + # to install a fix + $ zypper patch [--bz #] [--cve #] [--any-other #] + # to list available needed fixes (issue-number, patchname-version, + category, description) + # all + $ zypper list-patches --issues + # matching a substring ("CVE", number, or any) + $ zypper list-patches --issues foo + # only CVEs/bugzillas + $ zypper list-patches [--cve] [--bz] -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305503

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[openFATE 305503] zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) Feature #305503, revision 23 Title: zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories openSUSE-11.2: Candidate Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Description: YUM security plugin allows to filter updates showing only ones that mention certain issues. Example: yum update --security yum update --bz 410101 yum update --cve CVE-2007-5707 --advisory RHSA-2007:1082-5 As our patches contains this metadata, we could add similar functionality to zypper. Scope The scope is only for zypper. Other front ends would require some GUI concept first. Open Issues: libzypp's PoolQuery would need support for subattributes (updateinfo. xml references are stored as subarrays) User experience * Adds command line options like the ones described above. Dependencies * libzypp Contingency Plan * Feature is new, so in a bad scenario it can simple be deactivated. Relations: - updateinfo XML scheme (url: http://git.opensuse.org/?p=projects/zypp/libzypp.git;a=blob_plain;f=zypp/pa…) - Tips and tricks: yum-security (url: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) Documentation Impact: New command line options would need to be documented. Test Case: The testing of this feature can be done creating a repository (for example using enhancerepo) containing patches that reference issues, like described in http://en.opensuse.org/Maintenance/Code11/Howto , and then performing updates passing to zypper command line the issues, confirming that only those issues are shown. Use Case: Sysadmin is only interested in particular updates to solve security issues or specific bug numbers or advisories. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: Sysadmins do not update ther systems without a strict process and maximum care. Therefore it is very important to allow them to update the system to fix a single issue. It would save them the time to look that themselves package per package. Discussion: #1: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2008-12-03 14:51:14) Random notes: - CVE-XXXX-YYYY RPM provides after fixing issues? - OVAL relation? #2: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:02:46) (reply to #1) About CVE provides. Right now the CVE information is in the patch (since 11.0). I don't have anything against having it as Fix(CVE-XXX-XXX) provides, but I am not sure if having them in both makes sense. Specially in the case that one issue needs more than one package, you will need to install all packages fixing the issue, and if you have 2 repos with 2 same packages providing the issue, they will conflict. #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:08:13) (reply to #1) I don't have knowledge how OVAL works, may be you can provide some very concrete example scenarios for the feature described above. What I can say is that the reason why the repository/product compatibility and update information in SLE11/openSUSE 11.1 is supported using CPE ( that is, product can contain a CPE id, and repos can tell to which CPE they are compatible and which CPE they update with fixes ) was to enhance our ability to do semantic queries like relate upstream security issues and installed products. OVAL uses CPE as the platform descriptor AFAIK. #4: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) (2008-12-04 14:58:01) adding rpm provides was also my first idea, but that has a side effect: often enough, CVE numbers are not yet known when the package is built and ends up in QA, and editing rpm provides essentially needs a rebuild, which invalidates QA. so preferably we need a way to update the rpm provides without doing a rebuild (bad) or we need a way to add it to the meta information (which is currently generated via patchinfo and where it is also too late). an idealistic approach would be to make sure that we can update this meta information after patchinfo checkin (entering the data into swamp and autobuild fetches that information when the update is released and adds it to the meta info). #5: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-07 15:52:34) This has quite a bit of customer value. BTW, there may be a duplicate out there #6: Michael Andres (mlandres) (2009-07-01 18:33:01) libzypp-6.9.2 supports PoolQuery of subattributes. So one can e.g search for patches with updateReferenceId "CVE-2007-5707', or of updateReferenceType 'bugzilla",... (I'll provide some sample code) @Jano: I'll provide some code example, that tells how to access and iterate the matching updateReferences. So you could start working on zypper. #7: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:10:56) Thanx! I have a question about the reference types. What types do we support? in updateinfo.rnc (see references) i only see bugzilla and cve Do we want separate options for all supported types, like yum has? #9: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:57:19) (reply to #7) Also, i noticed in 11.1 updates repository, that many bugs have a CVE, but it's only in the description, not in the 'reference' metadata. Only bugzilla is in 'reference'. Do we want to address this? #10: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2009-07-03 15:59:21) (reply to #9) we are not emitting it yet. this also needs to be done :/ #8: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:20:18) Suggestion how the commands could look like: $ zypper fix --search [string] $ zypper fix --bugzilla <#> $ zypper fix --cve <#> #11: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) (2009-07-04 12:11:44) (reply to #8) Please re-think about introducing another term ( fix ), we already have * update * upgrade * patch #12: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-07 10:11:04) (reply to #11) What i try to achieve is to have a way to install the patches fixing the issues and a way to list them (issue number & patch name & (patch) description), search in them. The other alternatives i considered were: $ zypper patch [--bugzilla #] [--cve #] $ zypper list-patches --issues [string] The first command looks nice, but i don't know what to use to list/search the issues - the list-patches command does not seem right to me - looks more like it deserved a new command. $ zypper install [--bugzilla #] [--cve #] $ zypper search --issues [string] In this case, like in the 'list-patches --issues' case, the search command would either need to radically change its output, or user would need to call 'zypper patch-info the_found_patch' to get the patch description. Any other ideas? Why is having a new command a bad thing (esp. compared to having new options in the existing commands)? BTW: (We don't have 'upgrade' :O) #13: Martin Vidner (mvidner) (2009-07-07 14:33:03) (reply to #12) Why reinvent the wheel? Can we just copy yum's interface as described in the referenced yum-security article? * http://magazine.redhat.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/ (http://magazine.redhat.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) * http://linux.die.net/man/8/yum-security (http://linux.die.net/man/8/yum-security) #14: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-07 14:57:27) (reply to #13) 'zypper update' does not work with patches. 'zypper patch' looks to me like better candidate for new --bz or --cve options. yum does not make difference between these two. The yum plugin also adds a new command (list-sec), which was Klaus' objection. + #15: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) (2009-07-07 15:51:26) (reply to #14) + Well, my objection is the new term 'fix' besides 'update' and 'patch' + and will confuse people. + It should be an option to "list" or "list-patches" imho -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305503

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[openFATE 305296] Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Karl Eichwalder (keichwa) Feature #305296, revision 94 Title: Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important Requested by: JP Rosevear (jproseve) Description: We need to either have beagle off by default and allow a user to enable it the first time they search or provide an install option to turn it off. Relations: - Better Beagle Acceptance (feature/id: 303367) - Easy way to disable beagle completely during install (novell/bugzilla/id: 282678) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=282678 Discussion: #1: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-26 20:52:46) I prefer to start with disabled, offer option to run at first search. We are proliferating checkboxes in the installer too much. #8: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-02-10 15:32:39) (reply to #1) I wholehearty agree. Having specific applications in the installer is definitely something that we shouldn't do. Have it disabled by default and make it easy to enable. #9: Manuel Bejarano (mbejaranoc) (2009-02-11 09:29:51) (reply to #1) 100% agree #11: Jean-Daniel Dodin (jdd) (2009-02-15 10:12:29) (reply to #1) +1 #2: Kevin Dupuy (kdupuy9) (2009-01-29 23:40:17) I prefer a more sane option than disabling it by default... instead, allow the user to go in and uninstall it from the installation software screen, just as they would any other app (perhaps make 'Desktop Search' pattern, installed by default?) We just need to insure that uninstalling Beagle doesn't throw up any dependency errors. #3: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-01-30 00:16:23) Every single openSUSE install I've done has resulted in beagle being removed. It slows down the computer, and the firefox extension throws lots of errors. I'm quite happy with how easy it is to remove, and I can see why it's useful -- but unless its seriously improved, I think it should be removed (by default) #26: Peter Nixon (peternixon) (2009-03-11 20:39:01) (reply to #3) +1 #29: Pedro Veloso (pedrodh) (2009-04-01 22:18:05) (reply to #26) Totally agree #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-01-30 15:22:34) Maybe pulseaudio should be too, for slightly similar reasons. :) #5: Rastislav Krupansky (ra100) (2009-01-31 13:10:36) (reply to #4) exactly right ;-) #6: Thomas Beimel (rheydtergekko) (2009-02-01 16:22:09) Yes this would be an perfect option during installation. Especially because I prefer to have a new installation that consumes as less resources as possible. I do not need indexing service and I think many others as well. #7: Andri Andreas Priyanto (turtlix) (2009-02-05 11:20:44) I haven't use beagle since I install openSUSE, and maybe wouldn't or never But I don't know other user. I always remove beagle from my gnome-session-properties. #10: Johnny Stovall (oouc) (2009-02-11 22:50:14) Beagle should be disabled by default. Everyone in the DFW Linux Users Group complained when Suse added it. It causes nothing but trouble for me. #12: Bart Otten (bartotten) (2009-02-16 01:13:58) I agree with the people voting to disable it by default. I think we have to keep focus on the 'consumer' and most of them won't use Kerry/Beagle. ps. KDE4 -and- Beagle is useless. KDE4 uses Strigi and Nepomuk. #13: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-17 12:55:11) Despite all who now have voted for this proposal, I just have to vote against it. At least in the forms discussed here. I use Beagle heavily as do some other people I got convinced to use openSUSE instead of Windows. A good Desktop search was among the arguments to move these people to change their OS (others arguments were Deskbar etc... which btw. does not necessarily need Beagle but gets some interesting advantages IF Beagle is activated). Why not simply ask at startup how to configure some basic system defaults. Among them there could be beagle. So concerning the proposals of Federico Lucifredi, Stephan Kulow and so on, I am definitively of the same mind. Beagle should be installed by default, but it should be easy to switch it "on" or "off" whenever one wants. #14: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-18 01:05:18) (reply to #13) Yes, a search is very useful. Yes, some people find beagle beneficial (as apparently you do). But the vast majority (Currently the vote is at 47:1) of people it doesn't work well with. And that's truly an amazing statistic, as it's super easy to see and use the feature it provides but much harder to see that it's beagle causing so many (resource related) problems. And if that statistic alone isn't enough to convince you it's not a sensible default, then I have absolutely no idea how to. There really should be a resemblance of QA in place, especially for default (and completely optional) packages. #15: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 12:04:23) (reply to #14) Ok, I hope that my comment did not sound as gruff or ... brusque, for I, basically, hoped to present a different opinion. What I did not intend was to, evidently, irritate somebody by not completely assenting to his opinion. See: I am working for a university in Germany. We have 45.000 students and a staff of employees of a size appropriate for this amount of students. We rely heavily on the capabilities of a search system (to be honest: in this case not beagle, but somethings similar to beagle). I am one person who posts here but, to stay in your line of argumentation, statistically I represent so many single individuals, that my vote could be multiplied by a "pretty fight factor". Now the problem is that most of these people just use a search feature but do not understand of configure it. But they will notice when it is gone . These users do not vote, they are not involved in community work, they are not programmers, not system architects, not members of an online community. But they use systems like beagle. I know, as I stated in my first post, some people, which I got to switch their OS, from Windows to openSUSE. These people will miss features, too. Especially if you are so eager so simple remove this feature despite the fact that it was part of the distribution for many years. The more I write here, the angrier I get. I mentioned that Lucifredi and Kulow are of another opinion (disable but no remove the software; make it possible to switch it on or off when needed), an opinion I agree with. Is it possible that YOU ignored that part? This is quite normale for the usual open source community. To me it is a relatively illusive concept, the more I deal with it (and I deal with it for now 9 years) the more I learn about the ignorance it contains. Too many people choose rather to ignore those who have to vote (usually called users) and instead see their opinion as the ultimate measure to decide pro and contra. Did it come to your mind that about 80-90% of those who start to create an account for a portal like openFATE, who pay the time to write some comments and skip through all these proposals in this portal, that 80-90% of these people might perhaps be programmers? Geeks and nerds as they are called nowadays. This is no real statistic representing the opinion of those who use a software, it is a statistic of those how develop a software. Make this clear to you. So to get back on a rather rational level: I recognize that you are of another opinion. That most of the people here are. But, and that was important to me, these votes in here are not a real representation of opinions. I prefer openSUSE after all these years espcially because it was bought by Novell. Because they do research in usability, which is the only real way to ask the customers/the users, how to design the software. That is why I said, that an easy startup QA for the normal user is the best to do. Do not be too ignorant. The users know what they want, even if they miss some technical versatily, they will still take note of features that are missing, of bugs in the browser, of missing parts in the system "that they know worked on a different OS" or whatever else. Perhaps they annot name the source of the problem and do not know if it is a real design issue or a real bug. But they will say that the feature is not how they expected it to be. I recently said to a colleague of mine that the times of Mac OS are nearly over. The only real advantage they have is that they can design an OS without paying too much attention to different hardware. They know exactly which hardware their OS will possible have to run on. If Linux with a nice GNOME, KDE, or-whatever-desktop would run out of the box on ANY posible hardware, with all features running without a problem (Audio, Bluetooth, 3D Graphics are still a problem as we know) it would be undeniable that Linux will be the winner. I see progress made well into that direction. I see that Linux is close to this goal, to solve these issues in nears time (most Graphic Cards now easily work, with only a few exceptions). So please do not disappoint me. I have to lead discussions about Linux/Windows and Linux/MacOSX nearly every week. I do not want to have them led in vain. Look at what Mac and Windows do, they have a search system with an index. Make ours betters, faster and less memory hungry instead of removing it. These who switch from Windows/Mac to Linux (for instance to openSUSE) want to find new and more useful features instead of fewer features. I know this post was too long. I am sorry, but it thought it necessary. #16: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-19 14:33:07) (reply to #15) I agree with everything you said, but you must realize I/we aren't arguing against search. We're arguing against beagle. I personally use google desktop search on a daily basis. And it works well. I assume that it does all its work when I'm not physically using the computer (a policy that is ideal for desktop usage). I'm not advocating its inclusion (primarily license reasons and kde integration reasons) but you should see that I'm not against a search or anything like that. Beagle on the other hand, I've tried to give it a fair shot a few times. To see if it has improved (something I will admit Banshee has done). But its *always* problematic. Something that is echoed daily on IRC and the mailing lists. The firefox extension causes huge amounts errors and slow downs. The actual search program maxs out the CPU. IO brings the computer to a crawl when I need to get work done etc. It's just not pretty. So if Beagle works well, I'd love to use it. But it doesn't and shouldn't be included. Put it this way. I would really like to see kernel initialization of graphics devices. However, until it's finished and works properly -- I think we'd both agree that it shouldn't be on our systems. I know it's not a good test for everything, but have you noticed how many other desktop distros have chosen to include beagle? #17: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:16:48) (reply to #16) Ok, I see your point. Perhaps beagle is indeed not a good solution and I was too narrow minded to realize it. (Though I haven't experienced the CPU problems anymore for about one year, I suppose you are right). Especially since the development of beagle has come to a crawl (the last release: 0.3.9 was released about four weeks ago but it needed nearly half a year to be released and contains only some mere bug fixes). I think, I am going to open a new feature request in openFate. If you (and the other guys) are not against desktop search, but instead against beagle, it could be interesting to discuss why Tracker (http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/index.html) should not become a replacement for beagle. Especially since KDE has now Strigi as a core component. So one can get rid of beagle and use some "quasi native" tools for desktop search (namely "strigi" and "tracker") on Gnome and, respectively, KDE. Anyway, thanks for your reply and the discussion. #18: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:23:53) (reply to #17) Hm, as it seems I cannot open such a request. Wonderful! So perhaps somebody has read this discussion and might be so kind to at least evaluate the request and "perhaps" might open a new feature request concerning the replacement of beagle by Tracker (which is a Gnome Desktop search, but since KDE has already its own Desktop search this should not be that problematic... I hope) And before somebody asks: no I will not file a feature request via bug tracking system. Those usually take weeks or even months before they are answered/evaluated/discussed etc... #19: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-02-19 16:52:12) (reply to #18) Hello Sebastian - I do not take the thread as being "against desktop search", which is a great feature, or against Beagle, which I personally run. The decision is only to have Beagle not be running by default out of the box, but to have it installed and ready. The first time a search is performed, we ask. Users who want desktop search select to run it, and those who are more "frugal" in terms of CPU do not. I am running a 3 year old laptop, and Beagle is running just fine for me. I suspect that's the case for a lot of people. But it is still a good idea to ask for a choice. #20: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-22 03:03:55) (reply to #17) 100% agree. I think tracker/strigi make wonderful replacements. :) #22: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-02-25 00:40:51) (reply to #20) indeed... beagle is to heavy, traker instead, is simply wonderful! #23: Barbara Hudson (barbie_h) (2009-03-04 02:22:21) (reply to #15) I was going to vote in favour of the request, because I've been bitten by beagle bringing machines to a crawl many times, but one thing I've noticed is that, as people move to dual / quad -core machines, it's no longer a big issue. I'm not saying ignore the memory and resource problems - just that even laptops nowadays can run plasma and beagle and still feel responsive. The current system, where it notifies you when it does the initial indexing, is a lot better than the computer slowing to a crawl on a fresh install and people wondering why openSUSE is soooo slow. #21: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2009-02-24 09:10:56) Coolo, I believe this should be done via patterns. #24: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:52:23) (reply to #21) having a desktop search easy to enable sounds like a good to have feature, so I wouldn't simply remove the package from install. But it doesn't make sense on a KDE4 desktop (and it's not there in 11.1 afaik) and it doesn't have to be running by default for GNOME either. But this is something for the beagle maintainers to decide. #25: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:53:33) (reply to #24) that is: it should be off by default (seeing all the votes). But if it's worth to make it easier to turn it on than it is, I leave to those that know. But the solution to enable it, should be within the desktop. #27: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-03-16 18:03:00) Less than "easy way to disable beagle completey during installation" it should even be "disable beagle by default", thank you. #28: Marcel Müller (open_assistant) (2009-03-16 20:32:45) great idea, especially to my slowly pc #30: Gabriel Stein (gabrielstein) (2009-04-03 21:15:44) Totally Agree. I just post on my blog, and I will pay 5 pints of Guinness to the great developer which will do that amazing thing. #31: john andersen (jsamyth) (2009-04-16 20:22:51) I agree Beagle should be an optional item, not installed by default.   There, I've said it.   But an alternative might be to install it and restrict it't indexing BY DEFAULT to the user's home directory, (and perhaps the user's mail spool), and hava a configuration window that allows adding additional directories. That is a feature that might make it more palletable.  But realistically, when this many people arrive at a Future Feature site begging and pleading for a package to dropped from a normal installation you should assume there are some serious flaws with that package.  This site should be about new and improved features we would all like to see, but instead this thread is focused on something that has been rammed down our throats for way too many releases, and which has historically been difficult to remove.   Side issue: Unless you are a Linux Developer there is no point in having it index the entire hard drive.  Your average user has no need of these areas, and experienced users already know where things are, so a generalized indexer that searches the entire disk is a solution looking for a problem. #32: jean-christophe baptiste (phocean) (2009-04-27 11:28:48) Ok for those who want to get an easy way to disable Beagle. But it should be activated by default. I am using Beagle intensively (on Gnome) and I have never got a problem with it. It just rocks and a huge time saver to me. Maybe my hardware is just not obsolete (Core 2 duo laptop)... I think it is the kind of killer app good to show off and that can bring more new users. #33: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-05-12 20:04:51) (reply to #32) you are luky then.. beagle on my pc make them very very slower, it should be disabled by default, if you need it, then you insta/activate it #34: Marc collin (collinm) (2009-07-04 15:03:05) Disable it by default, i use kde... and there is alreay a solution for it.... we could also disable mono... #35: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-07 11:29:54) Vincent, can you do this? As it is our highest rated feature it would be very good to have implemented rather soon then later. Thanks. #36: Vincent Untz (vuntz) (2009-07-07 12:09:24) Well, it depends on what is the decision here: * if it's something that should be done during installation, I have no idea how to implement that. * If it's just disabling beagle by default, I'll need to investigate, but it hopefully only is changing something in a .desktop file. So what's the process on taking a decision here? That being said, just disabling beagle by default might expose a usability issue: if it's disabled, it will not index files. So when the user searches for something for the first time, it will not work and users won't understand it, and will just give up on it. (It might be solvable with a nice message the first time the user does a search, though) #37: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-07 14:43:12) (reply to #36) Vincent, please see #1. What you describe is exactly what Federico suggested as well. So I'd say disable beagle by default and offer option to run at first search. #38: Karl Eichwalder (keichwa) (2009-07-07 15:08:23) (reply to #37) IIRC, the kde help center works this way and it is rather annoying. Most of the time, the desktop computer idles... I think on the Mac the desktop search (spotlight) is enabled by default. #39: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-07-07 15:16:24) (reply to #38) you're wrong. Most of the time, the desktop computer saves power. + #40: Karl Eichwalder (keichwa) (2009-07-07 15:36:52) (reply to #39) + Yes, you are right. Once the work is done. + On my desktop at work, beagled and beagled-helper do not cause any + notable load. It's different on my test machine, though. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305296

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[openFATE 305296] Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Stephan Kulow (coolo) Feature #305296, revision 93 Title: Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important Requested by: JP Rosevear (jproseve) Description: We need to either have beagle off by default and allow a user to enable it the first time they search or provide an install option to turn it off. Relations: - Better Beagle Acceptance (feature/id: 303367) - Easy way to disable beagle completely during install (novell/bugzilla/id: 282678) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=282678 Discussion: #1: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-26 20:52:46) I prefer to start with disabled, offer option to run at first search. We are proliferating checkboxes in the installer too much. #8: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-02-10 15:32:39) (reply to #1) I wholehearty agree. Having specific applications in the installer is definitely something that we shouldn't do. Have it disabled by default and make it easy to enable. #9: Manuel Bejarano (mbejaranoc) (2009-02-11 09:29:51) (reply to #1) 100% agree #11: Jean-Daniel Dodin (jdd) (2009-02-15 10:12:29) (reply to #1) +1 #2: Kevin Dupuy (kdupuy9) (2009-01-29 23:40:17) I prefer a more sane option than disabling it by default... instead, allow the user to go in and uninstall it from the installation software screen, just as they would any other app (perhaps make 'Desktop Search' pattern, installed by default?) We just need to insure that uninstalling Beagle doesn't throw up any dependency errors. #3: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-01-30 00:16:23) Every single openSUSE install I've done has resulted in beagle being removed. It slows down the computer, and the firefox extension throws lots of errors. I'm quite happy with how easy it is to remove, and I can see why it's useful -- but unless its seriously improved, I think it should be removed (by default) #26: Peter Nixon (peternixon) (2009-03-11 20:39:01) (reply to #3) +1 #29: Pedro Veloso (pedrodh) (2009-04-01 22:18:05) (reply to #26) Totally agree #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-01-30 15:22:34) Maybe pulseaudio should be too, for slightly similar reasons. :) #5: Rastislav Krupansky (ra100) (2009-01-31 13:10:36) (reply to #4) exactly right ;-) #6: Thomas Beimel (rheydtergekko) (2009-02-01 16:22:09) Yes this would be an perfect option during installation. Especially because I prefer to have a new installation that consumes as less resources as possible. I do not need indexing service and I think many others as well. #7: Andri Andreas Priyanto (turtlix) (2009-02-05 11:20:44) I haven't use beagle since I install openSUSE, and maybe wouldn't or never But I don't know other user. I always remove beagle from my gnome-session-properties. #10: Johnny Stovall (oouc) (2009-02-11 22:50:14) Beagle should be disabled by default. Everyone in the DFW Linux Users Group complained when Suse added it. It causes nothing but trouble for me. #12: Bart Otten (bartotten) (2009-02-16 01:13:58) I agree with the people voting to disable it by default. I think we have to keep focus on the 'consumer' and most of them won't use Kerry/Beagle. ps. KDE4 -and- Beagle is useless. KDE4 uses Strigi and Nepomuk. #13: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-17 12:55:11) Despite all who now have voted for this proposal, I just have to vote against it. At least in the forms discussed here. I use Beagle heavily as do some other people I got convinced to use openSUSE instead of Windows. A good Desktop search was among the arguments to move these people to change their OS (others arguments were Deskbar etc... which btw. does not necessarily need Beagle but gets some interesting advantages IF Beagle is activated). Why not simply ask at startup how to configure some basic system defaults. Among them there could be beagle. So concerning the proposals of Federico Lucifredi, Stephan Kulow and so on, I am definitively of the same mind. Beagle should be installed by default, but it should be easy to switch it "on" or "off" whenever one wants. #14: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-18 01:05:18) (reply to #13) Yes, a search is very useful. Yes, some people find beagle beneficial (as apparently you do). But the vast majority (Currently the vote is at 47:1) of people it doesn't work well with. And that's truly an amazing statistic, as it's super easy to see and use the feature it provides but much harder to see that it's beagle causing so many (resource related) problems. And if that statistic alone isn't enough to convince you it's not a sensible default, then I have absolutely no idea how to. There really should be a resemblance of QA in place, especially for default (and completely optional) packages. #15: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 12:04:23) (reply to #14) Ok, I hope that my comment did not sound as gruff or ... brusque, for I, basically, hoped to present a different opinion. What I did not intend was to, evidently, irritate somebody by not completely assenting to his opinion. See: I am working for a university in Germany. We have 45.000 students and a staff of employees of a size appropriate for this amount of students. We rely heavily on the capabilities of a search system (to be honest: in this case not beagle, but somethings similar to beagle). I am one person who posts here but, to stay in your line of argumentation, statistically I represent so many single individuals, that my vote could be multiplied by a "pretty fight factor". Now the problem is that most of these people just use a search feature but do not understand of configure it. But they will notice when it is gone . These users do not vote, they are not involved in community work, they are not programmers, not system architects, not members of an online community. But they use systems like beagle. I know, as I stated in my first post, some people, which I got to switch their OS, from Windows to openSUSE. These people will miss features, too. Especially if you are so eager so simple remove this feature despite the fact that it was part of the distribution for many years. The more I write here, the angrier I get. I mentioned that Lucifredi and Kulow are of another opinion (disable but no remove the software; make it possible to switch it on or off when needed), an opinion I agree with. Is it possible that YOU ignored that part? This is quite normale for the usual open source community. To me it is a relatively illusive concept, the more I deal with it (and I deal with it for now 9 years) the more I learn about the ignorance it contains. Too many people choose rather to ignore those who have to vote (usually called users) and instead see their opinion as the ultimate measure to decide pro and contra. Did it come to your mind that about 80-90% of those who start to create an account for a portal like openFATE, who pay the time to write some comments and skip through all these proposals in this portal, that 80-90% of these people might perhaps be programmers? Geeks and nerds as they are called nowadays. This is no real statistic representing the opinion of those who use a software, it is a statistic of those how develop a software. Make this clear to you. So to get back on a rather rational level: I recognize that you are of another opinion. That most of the people here are. But, and that was important to me, these votes in here are not a real representation of opinions. I prefer openSUSE after all these years espcially because it was bought by Novell. Because they do research in usability, which is the only real way to ask the customers/the users, how to design the software. That is why I said, that an easy startup QA for the normal user is the best to do. Do not be too ignorant. The users know what they want, even if they miss some technical versatily, they will still take note of features that are missing, of bugs in the browser, of missing parts in the system "that they know worked on a different OS" or whatever else. Perhaps they annot name the source of the problem and do not know if it is a real design issue or a real bug. But they will say that the feature is not how they expected it to be. I recently said to a colleague of mine that the times of Mac OS are nearly over. The only real advantage they have is that they can design an OS without paying too much attention to different hardware. They know exactly which hardware their OS will possible have to run on. If Linux with a nice GNOME, KDE, or-whatever-desktop would run out of the box on ANY posible hardware, with all features running without a problem (Audio, Bluetooth, 3D Graphics are still a problem as we know) it would be undeniable that Linux will be the winner. I see progress made well into that direction. I see that Linux is close to this goal, to solve these issues in nears time (most Graphic Cards now easily work, with only a few exceptions). So please do not disappoint me. I have to lead discussions about Linux/Windows and Linux/MacOSX nearly every week. I do not want to have them led in vain. Look at what Mac and Windows do, they have a search system with an index. Make ours betters, faster and less memory hungry instead of removing it. These who switch from Windows/Mac to Linux (for instance to openSUSE) want to find new and more useful features instead of fewer features. I know this post was too long. I am sorry, but it thought it necessary. #16: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-19 14:33:07) (reply to #15) I agree with everything you said, but you must realize I/we aren't arguing against search. We're arguing against beagle. I personally use google desktop search on a daily basis. And it works well. I assume that it does all its work when I'm not physically using the computer (a policy that is ideal for desktop usage). I'm not advocating its inclusion (primarily license reasons and kde integration reasons) but you should see that I'm not against a search or anything like that. Beagle on the other hand, I've tried to give it a fair shot a few times. To see if it has improved (something I will admit Banshee has done). But its *always* problematic. Something that is echoed daily on IRC and the mailing lists. The firefox extension causes huge amounts errors and slow downs. The actual search program maxs out the CPU. IO brings the computer to a crawl when I need to get work done etc. It's just not pretty. So if Beagle works well, I'd love to use it. But it doesn't and shouldn't be included. Put it this way. I would really like to see kernel initialization of graphics devices. However, until it's finished and works properly -- I think we'd both agree that it shouldn't be on our systems. I know it's not a good test for everything, but have you noticed how many other desktop distros have chosen to include beagle? #17: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:16:48) (reply to #16) Ok, I see your point. Perhaps beagle is indeed not a good solution and I was too narrow minded to realize it. (Though I haven't experienced the CPU problems anymore for about one year, I suppose you are right). Especially since the development of beagle has come to a crawl (the last release: 0.3.9 was released about four weeks ago but it needed nearly half a year to be released and contains only some mere bug fixes). I think, I am going to open a new feature request in openFate. If you (and the other guys) are not against desktop search, but instead against beagle, it could be interesting to discuss why Tracker (http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/index.html) should not become a replacement for beagle. Especially since KDE has now Strigi as a core component. So one can get rid of beagle and use some "quasi native" tools for desktop search (namely "strigi" and "tracker") on Gnome and, respectively, KDE. Anyway, thanks for your reply and the discussion. #18: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:23:53) (reply to #17) Hm, as it seems I cannot open such a request. Wonderful! So perhaps somebody has read this discussion and might be so kind to at least evaluate the request and "perhaps" might open a new feature request concerning the replacement of beagle by Tracker (which is a Gnome Desktop search, but since KDE has already its own Desktop search this should not be that problematic... I hope) And before somebody asks: no I will not file a feature request via bug tracking system. Those usually take weeks or even months before they are answered/evaluated/discussed etc... #19: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-02-19 16:52:12) (reply to #18) Hello Sebastian - I do not take the thread as being "against desktop search", which is a great feature, or against Beagle, which I personally run. The decision is only to have Beagle not be running by default out of the box, but to have it installed and ready. The first time a search is performed, we ask. Users who want desktop search select to run it, and those who are more "frugal" in terms of CPU do not. I am running a 3 year old laptop, and Beagle is running just fine for me. I suspect that's the case for a lot of people. But it is still a good idea to ask for a choice. #20: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-22 03:03:55) (reply to #17) 100% agree. I think tracker/strigi make wonderful replacements. :) #22: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-02-25 00:40:51) (reply to #20) indeed... beagle is to heavy, traker instead, is simply wonderful! #23: Barbara Hudson (barbie_h) (2009-03-04 02:22:21) (reply to #15) I was going to vote in favour of the request, because I've been bitten by beagle bringing machines to a crawl many times, but one thing I've noticed is that, as people move to dual / quad -core machines, it's no longer a big issue. I'm not saying ignore the memory and resource problems - just that even laptops nowadays can run plasma and beagle and still feel responsive. The current system, where it notifies you when it does the initial indexing, is a lot better than the computer slowing to a crawl on a fresh install and people wondering why openSUSE is soooo slow. #21: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2009-02-24 09:10:56) Coolo, I believe this should be done via patterns. #24: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:52:23) (reply to #21) having a desktop search easy to enable sounds like a good to have feature, so I wouldn't simply remove the package from install. But it doesn't make sense on a KDE4 desktop (and it's not there in 11.1 afaik) and it doesn't have to be running by default for GNOME either. But this is something for the beagle maintainers to decide. #25: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:53:33) (reply to #24) that is: it should be off by default (seeing all the votes). But if it's worth to make it easier to turn it on than it is, I leave to those that know. But the solution to enable it, should be within the desktop. #27: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-03-16 18:03:00) Less than "easy way to disable beagle completey during installation" it should even be "disable beagle by default", thank you. #28: Marcel Müller (open_assistant) (2009-03-16 20:32:45) great idea, especially to my slowly pc #30: Gabriel Stein (gabrielstein) (2009-04-03 21:15:44) Totally Agree. I just post on my blog, and I will pay 5 pints of Guinness to the great developer which will do that amazing thing. #31: john andersen (jsamyth) (2009-04-16 20:22:51) I agree Beagle should be an optional item, not installed by default.   There, I've said it.   But an alternative might be to install it and restrict it't indexing BY DEFAULT to the user's home directory, (and perhaps the user's mail spool), and hava a configuration window that allows adding additional directories. That is a feature that might make it more palletable.  But realistically, when this many people arrive at a Future Feature site begging and pleading for a package to dropped from a normal installation you should assume there are some serious flaws with that package.  This site should be about new and improved features we would all like to see, but instead this thread is focused on something that has been rammed down our throats for way too many releases, and which has historically been difficult to remove.   Side issue: Unless you are a Linux Developer there is no point in having it index the entire hard drive.  Your average user has no need of these areas, and experienced users already know where things are, so a generalized indexer that searches the entire disk is a solution looking for a problem. #32: jean-christophe baptiste (phocean) (2009-04-27 11:28:48) Ok for those who want to get an easy way to disable Beagle. But it should be activated by default. I am using Beagle intensively (on Gnome) and I have never got a problem with it. It just rocks and a huge time saver to me. Maybe my hardware is just not obsolete (Core 2 duo laptop)... I think it is the kind of killer app good to show off and that can bring more new users. #33: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-05-12 20:04:51) (reply to #32) you are luky then.. beagle on my pc make them very very slower, it should be disabled by default, if you need it, then you insta/activate it #34: Marc collin (collinm) (2009-07-04 15:03:05) Disable it by default, i use kde... and there is alreay a solution for it.... we could also disable mono... #35: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-07 11:29:54) Vincent, can you do this? As it is our highest rated feature it would be very good to have implemented rather soon then later. Thanks. #36: Vincent Untz (vuntz) (2009-07-07 12:09:24) Well, it depends on what is the decision here: * if it's something that should be done during installation, I have no idea how to implement that. * If it's just disabling beagle by default, I'll need to investigate, but it hopefully only is changing something in a .desktop file. So what's the process on taking a decision here? That being said, just disabling beagle by default might expose a usability issue: if it's disabled, it will not index files. So when the user searches for something for the first time, it will not work and users won't understand it, and will just give up on it. (It might be solvable with a nice message the first time the user does a search, though) #37: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-07 14:43:12) (reply to #36) Vincent, please see #1. What you describe is exactly what Federico suggested as well. So I'd say disable beagle by default and offer option to run at first search. #38: Karl Eichwalder (keichwa) (2009-07-07 15:08:23) (reply to #37) IIRC, the kde help center works this way and it is rather annoying. - Most of the time, the desktop computer idles... I think on the Mac the desktop search (spotlight) is enabled by default. + #39: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-07-07 15:16:24) (reply to #38) + you're wrong. Most of the time, the desktop computer saves power. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305296

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[openFATE 305296] Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Karl Eichwalder (keichwa) Feature #305296, revision 92 Title: Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important Requested by: JP Rosevear (jproseve) Description: We need to either have beagle off by default and allow a user to enable it the first time they search or provide an install option to turn it off. Relations: - Better Beagle Acceptance (feature/id: 303367) - Easy way to disable beagle completely during install (novell/bugzilla/id: 282678) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=282678 Discussion: #1: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-26 20:52:46) I prefer to start with disabled, offer option to run at first search. We are proliferating checkboxes in the installer too much. #8: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-02-10 15:32:39) (reply to #1) I wholehearty agree. Having specific applications in the installer is definitely something that we shouldn't do. Have it disabled by default and make it easy to enable. #9: Manuel Bejarano (mbejaranoc) (2009-02-11 09:29:51) (reply to #1) 100% agree #11: Jean-Daniel Dodin (jdd) (2009-02-15 10:12:29) (reply to #1) +1 #2: Kevin Dupuy (kdupuy9) (2009-01-29 23:40:17) I prefer a more sane option than disabling it by default... instead, allow the user to go in and uninstall it from the installation software screen, just as they would any other app (perhaps make 'Desktop Search' pattern, installed by default?) We just need to insure that uninstalling Beagle doesn't throw up any dependency errors. #3: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-01-30 00:16:23) Every single openSUSE install I've done has resulted in beagle being removed. It slows down the computer, and the firefox extension throws lots of errors. I'm quite happy with how easy it is to remove, and I can see why it's useful -- but unless its seriously improved, I think it should be removed (by default) #26: Peter Nixon (peternixon) (2009-03-11 20:39:01) (reply to #3) +1 #29: Pedro Veloso (pedrodh) (2009-04-01 22:18:05) (reply to #26) Totally agree #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-01-30 15:22:34) Maybe pulseaudio should be too, for slightly similar reasons. :) #5: Rastislav Krupansky (ra100) (2009-01-31 13:10:36) (reply to #4) exactly right ;-) #6: Thomas Beimel (rheydtergekko) (2009-02-01 16:22:09) Yes this would be an perfect option during installation. Especially because I prefer to have a new installation that consumes as less resources as possible. I do not need indexing service and I think many others as well. #7: Andri Andreas Priyanto (turtlix) (2009-02-05 11:20:44) I haven't use beagle since I install openSUSE, and maybe wouldn't or never But I don't know other user. I always remove beagle from my gnome-session-properties. #10: Johnny Stovall (oouc) (2009-02-11 22:50:14) Beagle should be disabled by default. Everyone in the DFW Linux Users Group complained when Suse added it. It causes nothing but trouble for me. #12: Bart Otten (bartotten) (2009-02-16 01:13:58) I agree with the people voting to disable it by default. I think we have to keep focus on the 'consumer' and most of them won't use Kerry/Beagle. ps. KDE4 -and- Beagle is useless. KDE4 uses Strigi and Nepomuk. #13: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-17 12:55:11) Despite all who now have voted for this proposal, I just have to vote against it. At least in the forms discussed here. I use Beagle heavily as do some other people I got convinced to use openSUSE instead of Windows. A good Desktop search was among the arguments to move these people to change their OS (others arguments were Deskbar etc... which btw. does not necessarily need Beagle but gets some interesting advantages IF Beagle is activated). Why not simply ask at startup how to configure some basic system defaults. Among them there could be beagle. So concerning the proposals of Federico Lucifredi, Stephan Kulow and so on, I am definitively of the same mind. Beagle should be installed by default, but it should be easy to switch it "on" or "off" whenever one wants. #14: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-18 01:05:18) (reply to #13) Yes, a search is very useful. Yes, some people find beagle beneficial (as apparently you do). But the vast majority (Currently the vote is at 47:1) of people it doesn't work well with. And that's truly an amazing statistic, as it's super easy to see and use the feature it provides but much harder to see that it's beagle causing so many (resource related) problems. And if that statistic alone isn't enough to convince you it's not a sensible default, then I have absolutely no idea how to. There really should be a resemblance of QA in place, especially for default (and completely optional) packages. #15: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 12:04:23) (reply to #14) Ok, I hope that my comment did not sound as gruff or ... brusque, for I, basically, hoped to present a different opinion. What I did not intend was to, evidently, irritate somebody by not completely assenting to his opinion. See: I am working for a university in Germany. We have 45.000 students and a staff of employees of a size appropriate for this amount of students. We rely heavily on the capabilities of a search system (to be honest: in this case not beagle, but somethings similar to beagle). I am one person who posts here but, to stay in your line of argumentation, statistically I represent so many single individuals, that my vote could be multiplied by a "pretty fight factor". Now the problem is that most of these people just use a search feature but do not understand of configure it. But they will notice when it is gone . These users do not vote, they are not involved in community work, they are not programmers, not system architects, not members of an online community. But they use systems like beagle. I know, as I stated in my first post, some people, which I got to switch their OS, from Windows to openSUSE. These people will miss features, too. Especially if you are so eager so simple remove this feature despite the fact that it was part of the distribution for many years. The more I write here, the angrier I get. I mentioned that Lucifredi and Kulow are of another opinion (disable but no remove the software; make it possible to switch it on or off when needed), an opinion I agree with. Is it possible that YOU ignored that part? This is quite normale for the usual open source community. To me it is a relatively illusive concept, the more I deal with it (and I deal with it for now 9 years) the more I learn about the ignorance it contains. Too many people choose rather to ignore those who have to vote (usually called users) and instead see their opinion as the ultimate measure to decide pro and contra. Did it come to your mind that about 80-90% of those who start to create an account for a portal like openFATE, who pay the time to write some comments and skip through all these proposals in this portal, that 80-90% of these people might perhaps be programmers? Geeks and nerds as they are called nowadays. This is no real statistic representing the opinion of those who use a software, it is a statistic of those how develop a software. Make this clear to you. So to get back on a rather rational level: I recognize that you are of another opinion. That most of the people here are. But, and that was important to me, these votes in here are not a real representation of opinions. I prefer openSUSE after all these years espcially because it was bought by Novell. Because they do research in usability, which is the only real way to ask the customers/the users, how to design the software. That is why I said, that an easy startup QA for the normal user is the best to do. Do not be too ignorant. The users know what they want, even if they miss some technical versatily, they will still take note of features that are missing, of bugs in the browser, of missing parts in the system "that they know worked on a different OS" or whatever else. Perhaps they annot name the source of the problem and do not know if it is a real design issue or a real bug. But they will say that the feature is not how they expected it to be. I recently said to a colleague of mine that the times of Mac OS are nearly over. The only real advantage they have is that they can design an OS without paying too much attention to different hardware. They know exactly which hardware their OS will possible have to run on. If Linux with a nice GNOME, KDE, or-whatever-desktop would run out of the box on ANY posible hardware, with all features running without a problem (Audio, Bluetooth, 3D Graphics are still a problem as we know) it would be undeniable that Linux will be the winner. I see progress made well into that direction. I see that Linux is close to this goal, to solve these issues in nears time (most Graphic Cards now easily work, with only a few exceptions). So please do not disappoint me. I have to lead discussions about Linux/Windows and Linux/MacOSX nearly every week. I do not want to have them led in vain. Look at what Mac and Windows do, they have a search system with an index. Make ours betters, faster and less memory hungry instead of removing it. These who switch from Windows/Mac to Linux (for instance to openSUSE) want to find new and more useful features instead of fewer features. I know this post was too long. I am sorry, but it thought it necessary. #16: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-19 14:33:07) (reply to #15) I agree with everything you said, but you must realize I/we aren't arguing against search. We're arguing against beagle. I personally use google desktop search on a daily basis. And it works well. I assume that it does all its work when I'm not physically using the computer (a policy that is ideal for desktop usage). I'm not advocating its inclusion (primarily license reasons and kde integration reasons) but you should see that I'm not against a search or anything like that. Beagle on the other hand, I've tried to give it a fair shot a few times. To see if it has improved (something I will admit Banshee has done). But its *always* problematic. Something that is echoed daily on IRC and the mailing lists. The firefox extension causes huge amounts errors and slow downs. The actual search program maxs out the CPU. IO brings the computer to a crawl when I need to get work done etc. It's just not pretty. So if Beagle works well, I'd love to use it. But it doesn't and shouldn't be included. Put it this way. I would really like to see kernel initialization of graphics devices. However, until it's finished and works properly -- I think we'd both agree that it shouldn't be on our systems. I know it's not a good test for everything, but have you noticed how many other desktop distros have chosen to include beagle? #17: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:16:48) (reply to #16) Ok, I see your point. Perhaps beagle is indeed not a good solution and I was too narrow minded to realize it. (Though I haven't experienced the CPU problems anymore for about one year, I suppose you are right). Especially since the development of beagle has come to a crawl (the last release: 0.3.9 was released about four weeks ago but it needed nearly half a year to be released and contains only some mere bug fixes). I think, I am going to open a new feature request in openFate. If you (and the other guys) are not against desktop search, but instead against beagle, it could be interesting to discuss why Tracker (http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/index.html) should not become a replacement for beagle. Especially since KDE has now Strigi as a core component. So one can get rid of beagle and use some "quasi native" tools for desktop search (namely "strigi" and "tracker") on Gnome and, respectively, KDE. Anyway, thanks for your reply and the discussion. #18: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:23:53) (reply to #17) Hm, as it seems I cannot open such a request. Wonderful! So perhaps somebody has read this discussion and might be so kind to at least evaluate the request and "perhaps" might open a new feature request concerning the replacement of beagle by Tracker (which is a Gnome Desktop search, but since KDE has already its own Desktop search this should not be that problematic... I hope) And before somebody asks: no I will not file a feature request via bug tracking system. Those usually take weeks or even months before they are answered/evaluated/discussed etc... #19: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-02-19 16:52:12) (reply to #18) Hello Sebastian - I do not take the thread as being "against desktop search", which is a great feature, or against Beagle, which I personally run. The decision is only to have Beagle not be running by default out of the box, but to have it installed and ready. The first time a search is performed, we ask. Users who want desktop search select to run it, and those who are more "frugal" in terms of CPU do not. I am running a 3 year old laptop, and Beagle is running just fine for me. I suspect that's the case for a lot of people. But it is still a good idea to ask for a choice. #20: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-22 03:03:55) (reply to #17) 100% agree. I think tracker/strigi make wonderful replacements. :) #22: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-02-25 00:40:51) (reply to #20) indeed... beagle is to heavy, traker instead, is simply wonderful! #23: Barbara Hudson (barbie_h) (2009-03-04 02:22:21) (reply to #15) I was going to vote in favour of the request, because I've been bitten by beagle bringing machines to a crawl many times, but one thing I've noticed is that, as people move to dual / quad -core machines, it's no longer a big issue. I'm not saying ignore the memory and resource problems - just that even laptops nowadays can run plasma and beagle and still feel responsive. The current system, where it notifies you when it does the initial indexing, is a lot better than the computer slowing to a crawl on a fresh install and people wondering why openSUSE is soooo slow. #21: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2009-02-24 09:10:56) Coolo, I believe this should be done via patterns. #24: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:52:23) (reply to #21) having a desktop search easy to enable sounds like a good to have feature, so I wouldn't simply remove the package from install. But it doesn't make sense on a KDE4 desktop (and it's not there in 11.1 afaik) and it doesn't have to be running by default for GNOME either. But this is something for the beagle maintainers to decide. #25: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:53:33) (reply to #24) that is: it should be off by default (seeing all the votes). But if it's worth to make it easier to turn it on than it is, I leave to those that know. But the solution to enable it, should be within the desktop. #27: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-03-16 18:03:00) Less than "easy way to disable beagle completey during installation" it should even be "disable beagle by default", thank you. #28: Marcel Müller (open_assistant) (2009-03-16 20:32:45) great idea, especially to my slowly pc #30: Gabriel Stein (gabrielstein) (2009-04-03 21:15:44) Totally Agree. I just post on my blog, and I will pay 5 pints of Guinness to the great developer which will do that amazing thing. #31: john andersen (jsamyth) (2009-04-16 20:22:51) I agree Beagle should be an optional item, not installed by default.   There, I've said it.   But an alternative might be to install it and restrict it't indexing BY DEFAULT to the user's home directory, (and perhaps the user's mail spool), and hava a configuration window that allows adding additional directories. That is a feature that might make it more palletable.  But realistically, when this many people arrive at a Future Feature site begging and pleading for a package to dropped from a normal installation you should assume there are some serious flaws with that package.  This site should be about new and improved features we would all like to see, but instead this thread is focused on something that has been rammed down our throats for way too many releases, and which has historically been difficult to remove.   Side issue: Unless you are a Linux Developer there is no point in having it index the entire hard drive.  Your average user has no need of these areas, and experienced users already know where things are, so a generalized indexer that searches the entire disk is a solution looking for a problem. #32: jean-christophe baptiste (phocean) (2009-04-27 11:28:48) Ok for those who want to get an easy way to disable Beagle. But it should be activated by default. I am using Beagle intensively (on Gnome) and I have never got a problem with it. It just rocks and a huge time saver to me. Maybe my hardware is just not obsolete (Core 2 duo laptop)... I think it is the kind of killer app good to show off and that can bring more new users. #33: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-05-12 20:04:51) (reply to #32) you are luky then.. beagle on my pc make them very very slower, it should be disabled by default, if you need it, then you insta/activate it #34: Marc collin (collinm) (2009-07-04 15:03:05) Disable it by default, i use kde... and there is alreay a solution for it.... we could also disable mono... #35: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-07 11:29:54) Vincent, can you do this? As it is our highest rated feature it would be very good to have implemented rather soon then later. Thanks. #36: Vincent Untz (vuntz) (2009-07-07 12:09:24) Well, it depends on what is the decision here: * if it's something that should be done during installation, I have no idea how to implement that. * If it's just disabling beagle by default, I'll need to investigate, but it hopefully only is changing something in a .desktop file. So what's the process on taking a decision here? That being said, just disabling beagle by default might expose a usability issue: if it's disabled, it will not index files. So when the user searches for something for the first time, it will not work and users won't understand it, and will just give up on it. (It might be solvable with a nice message the first time the user does a search, though) #37: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-07 14:43:12) (reply to #36) Vincent, please see #1. What you describe is exactly what Federico suggested as well. So I'd say disable beagle by default and offer option to run at first search. + #38: Karl Eichwalder (keichwa) (2009-07-07 15:08:23) (reply to #37) + IIRC, the kde help center works this way and it is rather annoying. + + Most of the time, the desktop computer idles... I think on the Mac the + desktop search (spotlight) is enabled by default. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305296

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[openFATE 305503] zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Ján Kupec (jkupec) Feature #305503, revision 22 Title: zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories openSUSE-11.2: Candidate Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Description: YUM security plugin allows to filter updates showing only ones that mention certain issues. Example: yum update --security yum update --bz 410101 yum update --cve CVE-2007-5707 --advisory RHSA-2007:1082-5 As our patches contains this metadata, we could add similar functionality to zypper. Scope The scope is only for zypper. Other front ends would require some GUI concept first. Open Issues: libzypp's PoolQuery would need support for subattributes (updateinfo. xml references are stored as subarrays) User experience * Adds command line options like the ones described above. Dependencies * libzypp Contingency Plan * Feature is new, so in a bad scenario it can simple be deactivated. Relations: - updateinfo XML scheme (url: http://git.opensuse.org/?p=projects/zypp/libzypp.git;a=blob_plain;f=zypp/pa…) - Tips and tricks: yum-security (url: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) Documentation Impact: New command line options would need to be documented. Test Case: The testing of this feature can be done creating a repository (for example using enhancerepo) containing patches that reference issues, like described in http://en.opensuse.org/Maintenance/Code11/Howto , and then performing updates passing to zypper command line the issues, confirming that only those issues are shown. Use Case: Sysadmin is only interested in particular updates to solve security issues or specific bug numbers or advisories. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: Sysadmins do not update ther systems without a strict process and maximum care. Therefore it is very important to allow them to update the system to fix a single issue. It would save them the time to look that themselves package per package. Discussion: #1: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2008-12-03 14:51:14) Random notes: - CVE-XXXX-YYYY RPM provides after fixing issues? - OVAL relation? #2: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:02:46) (reply to #1) About CVE provides. Right now the CVE information is in the patch (since 11.0). I don't have anything against having it as Fix(CVE-XXX-XXX) provides, but I am not sure if having them in both makes sense. Specially in the case that one issue needs more than one package, you will need to install all packages fixing the issue, and if you have 2 repos with 2 same packages providing the issue, they will conflict. #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:08:13) (reply to #1) I don't have knowledge how OVAL works, may be you can provide some very concrete example scenarios for the feature described above. What I can say is that the reason why the repository/product compatibility and update information in SLE11/openSUSE 11.1 is supported using CPE ( that is, product can contain a CPE id, and repos can tell to which CPE they are compatible and which CPE they update with fixes ) was to enhance our ability to do semantic queries like relate upstream security issues and installed products. OVAL uses CPE as the platform descriptor AFAIK. #4: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) (2008-12-04 14:58:01) adding rpm provides was also my first idea, but that has a side effect: often enough, CVE numbers are not yet known when the package is built and ends up in QA, and editing rpm provides essentially needs a rebuild, which invalidates QA. so preferably we need a way to update the rpm provides without doing a rebuild (bad) or we need a way to add it to the meta information (which is currently generated via patchinfo and where it is also too late). an idealistic approach would be to make sure that we can update this meta information after patchinfo checkin (entering the data into swamp and autobuild fetches that information when the update is released and adds it to the meta info). #5: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-07 15:52:34) This has quite a bit of customer value. BTW, there may be a duplicate out there #6: Michael Andres (mlandres) (2009-07-01 18:33:01) libzypp-6.9.2 supports PoolQuery of subattributes. So one can e.g search for patches with updateReferenceId "CVE-2007-5707', or of updateReferenceType 'bugzilla",... (I'll provide some sample code) @Jano: I'll provide some code example, that tells how to access and iterate the matching updateReferences. So you could start working on zypper. #7: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:10:56) Thanx! I have a question about the reference types. What types do we support? in updateinfo.rnc (see references) i only see bugzilla and cve Do we want separate options for all supported types, like yum has? #9: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:57:19) (reply to #7) Also, i noticed in 11.1 updates repository, that many bugs have a CVE, but it's only in the description, not in the 'reference' metadata. Only bugzilla is in 'reference'. Do we want to address this? #10: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2009-07-03 15:59:21) (reply to #9) we are not emitting it yet. this also needs to be done :/ #8: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:20:18) Suggestion how the commands could look like: $ zypper fix --search [string] $ zypper fix --bugzilla <#> $ zypper fix --cve <#> #11: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) (2009-07-04 12:11:44) (reply to #8) Please re-think about introducing another term ( fix ), we already have * update * upgrade * patch #12: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-07 10:11:04) (reply to #11) What i try to achieve is to have a way to install the patches fixing the issues and a way to list them (issue number & patch name & (patch) description), search in them. The other alternatives i considered were: $ zypper patch [--bugzilla #] [--cve #] $ zypper list-patches --issues [string] The first command looks nice, but i don't know what to use to list/search the issues - the list-patches command does not seem right to me - looks more like it deserved a new command. $ zypper install [--bugzilla #] [--cve #] $ zypper search --issues [string] In this case, like in the 'list-patches --issues' case, the search command would either need to radically change its output, or user would need to call 'zypper patch-info the_found_patch' to get the patch description. Any other ideas? Why is having a new command a bad thing (esp. compared to having new options in the existing commands)? BTW: (We don't have 'upgrade' :O) #13: Martin Vidner (mvidner) (2009-07-07 14:33:03) (reply to #12) Why reinvent the wheel? Can we just copy yum's interface as described in the referenced yum-security article? * http://magazine.redhat.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/ (http://magazine.redhat.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) * http://linux.die.net/man/8/yum-security (http://linux.die.net/man/8/yum-security) + #14: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-07 14:57:27) (reply to #13) + 'zypper update' does not work with patches. 'zypper patch' looks to me + like better candidate for new --bz or --cve options. yum does not make + difference between these two. The yum plugin also adds a new command + (list-sec), which was Klaus' objection. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305503

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[openFATE 305296] Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Michael Löffler (michl19) Feature #305296, revision 91 Title: Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important Requested by: JP Rosevear (jproseve) Description: We need to either have beagle off by default and allow a user to enable it the first time they search or provide an install option to turn it off. Relations: - Better Beagle Acceptance (feature/id: 303367) - Easy way to disable beagle completely during install (novell/bugzilla/id: 282678) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=282678 Discussion: #1: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-26 20:52:46) I prefer to start with disabled, offer option to run at first search. We are proliferating checkboxes in the installer too much. #8: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-02-10 15:32:39) (reply to #1) I wholehearty agree. Having specific applications in the installer is definitely something that we shouldn't do. Have it disabled by default and make it easy to enable. #9: Manuel Bejarano (mbejaranoc) (2009-02-11 09:29:51) (reply to #1) 100% agree #11: Jean-Daniel Dodin (jdd) (2009-02-15 10:12:29) (reply to #1) +1 #2: Kevin Dupuy (kdupuy9) (2009-01-29 23:40:17) I prefer a more sane option than disabling it by default... instead, allow the user to go in and uninstall it from the installation software screen, just as they would any other app (perhaps make 'Desktop Search' pattern, installed by default?) We just need to insure that uninstalling Beagle doesn't throw up any dependency errors. #3: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-01-30 00:16:23) Every single openSUSE install I've done has resulted in beagle being removed. It slows down the computer, and the firefox extension throws lots of errors. I'm quite happy with how easy it is to remove, and I can see why it's useful -- but unless its seriously improved, I think it should be removed (by default) #26: Peter Nixon (peternixon) (2009-03-11 20:39:01) (reply to #3) +1 #29: Pedro Veloso (pedrodh) (2009-04-01 22:18:05) (reply to #26) Totally agree #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-01-30 15:22:34) Maybe pulseaudio should be too, for slightly similar reasons. :) #5: Rastislav Krupansky (ra100) (2009-01-31 13:10:36) (reply to #4) exactly right ;-) #6: Thomas Beimel (rheydtergekko) (2009-02-01 16:22:09) Yes this would be an perfect option during installation. Especially because I prefer to have a new installation that consumes as less resources as possible. I do not need indexing service and I think many others as well. #7: Andri Andreas Priyanto (turtlix) (2009-02-05 11:20:44) I haven't use beagle since I install openSUSE, and maybe wouldn't or never But I don't know other user. I always remove beagle from my gnome-session-properties. #10: Johnny Stovall (oouc) (2009-02-11 22:50:14) Beagle should be disabled by default. Everyone in the DFW Linux Users Group complained when Suse added it. It causes nothing but trouble for me. #12: Bart Otten (bartotten) (2009-02-16 01:13:58) I agree with the people voting to disable it by default. I think we have to keep focus on the 'consumer' and most of them won't use Kerry/Beagle. ps. KDE4 -and- Beagle is useless. KDE4 uses Strigi and Nepomuk. #13: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-17 12:55:11) Despite all who now have voted for this proposal, I just have to vote against it. At least in the forms discussed here. I use Beagle heavily as do some other people I got convinced to use openSUSE instead of Windows. A good Desktop search was among the arguments to move these people to change their OS (others arguments were Deskbar etc... which btw. does not necessarily need Beagle but gets some interesting advantages IF Beagle is activated). Why not simply ask at startup how to configure some basic system defaults. Among them there could be beagle. So concerning the proposals of Federico Lucifredi, Stephan Kulow and so on, I am definitively of the same mind. Beagle should be installed by default, but it should be easy to switch it "on" or "off" whenever one wants. #14: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-18 01:05:18) (reply to #13) Yes, a search is very useful. Yes, some people find beagle beneficial (as apparently you do). But the vast majority (Currently the vote is at 47:1) of people it doesn't work well with. And that's truly an amazing statistic, as it's super easy to see and use the feature it provides but much harder to see that it's beagle causing so many (resource related) problems. And if that statistic alone isn't enough to convince you it's not a sensible default, then I have absolutely no idea how to. There really should be a resemblance of QA in place, especially for default (and completely optional) packages. #15: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 12:04:23) (reply to #14) Ok, I hope that my comment did not sound as gruff or ... brusque, for I, basically, hoped to present a different opinion. What I did not intend was to, evidently, irritate somebody by not completely assenting to his opinion. See: I am working for a university in Germany. We have 45.000 students and a staff of employees of a size appropriate for this amount of students. We rely heavily on the capabilities of a search system (to be honest: in this case not beagle, but somethings similar to beagle). I am one person who posts here but, to stay in your line of argumentation, statistically I represent so many single individuals, that my vote could be multiplied by a "pretty fight factor". Now the problem is that most of these people just use a search feature but do not understand of configure it. But they will notice when it is gone . These users do not vote, they are not involved in community work, they are not programmers, not system architects, not members of an online community. But they use systems like beagle. I know, as I stated in my first post, some people, which I got to switch their OS, from Windows to openSUSE. These people will miss features, too. Especially if you are so eager so simple remove this feature despite the fact that it was part of the distribution for many years. The more I write here, the angrier I get. I mentioned that Lucifredi and Kulow are of another opinion (disable but no remove the software; make it possible to switch it on or off when needed), an opinion I agree with. Is it possible that YOU ignored that part? This is quite normale for the usual open source community. To me it is a relatively illusive concept, the more I deal with it (and I deal with it for now 9 years) the more I learn about the ignorance it contains. Too many people choose rather to ignore those who have to vote (usually called users) and instead see their opinion as the ultimate measure to decide pro and contra. Did it come to your mind that about 80-90% of those who start to create an account for a portal like openFATE, who pay the time to write some comments and skip through all these proposals in this portal, that 80-90% of these people might perhaps be programmers? Geeks and nerds as they are called nowadays. This is no real statistic representing the opinion of those who use a software, it is a statistic of those how develop a software. Make this clear to you. So to get back on a rather rational level: I recognize that you are of another opinion. That most of the people here are. But, and that was important to me, these votes in here are not a real representation of opinions. I prefer openSUSE after all these years espcially because it was bought by Novell. Because they do research in usability, which is the only real way to ask the customers/the users, how to design the software. That is why I said, that an easy startup QA for the normal user is the best to do. Do not be too ignorant. The users know what they want, even if they miss some technical versatily, they will still take note of features that are missing, of bugs in the browser, of missing parts in the system "that they know worked on a different OS" or whatever else. Perhaps they annot name the source of the problem and do not know if it is a real design issue or a real bug. But they will say that the feature is not how they expected it to be. I recently said to a colleague of mine that the times of Mac OS are nearly over. The only real advantage they have is that they can design an OS without paying too much attention to different hardware. They know exactly which hardware their OS will possible have to run on. If Linux with a nice GNOME, KDE, or-whatever-desktop would run out of the box on ANY posible hardware, with all features running without a problem (Audio, Bluetooth, 3D Graphics are still a problem as we know) it would be undeniable that Linux will be the winner. I see progress made well into that direction. I see that Linux is close to this goal, to solve these issues in nears time (most Graphic Cards now easily work, with only a few exceptions). So please do not disappoint me. I have to lead discussions about Linux/Windows and Linux/MacOSX nearly every week. I do not want to have them led in vain. Look at what Mac and Windows do, they have a search system with an index. Make ours betters, faster and less memory hungry instead of removing it. These who switch from Windows/Mac to Linux (for instance to openSUSE) want to find new and more useful features instead of fewer features. I know this post was too long. I am sorry, but it thought it necessary. #16: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-19 14:33:07) (reply to #15) I agree with everything you said, but you must realize I/we aren't arguing against search. We're arguing against beagle. I personally use google desktop search on a daily basis. And it works well. I assume that it does all its work when I'm not physically using the computer (a policy that is ideal for desktop usage). I'm not advocating its inclusion (primarily license reasons and kde integration reasons) but you should see that I'm not against a search or anything like that. Beagle on the other hand, I've tried to give it a fair shot a few times. To see if it has improved (something I will admit Banshee has done). But its *always* problematic. Something that is echoed daily on IRC and the mailing lists. The firefox extension causes huge amounts errors and slow downs. The actual search program maxs out the CPU. IO brings the computer to a crawl when I need to get work done etc. It's just not pretty. So if Beagle works well, I'd love to use it. But it doesn't and shouldn't be included. Put it this way. I would really like to see kernel initialization of graphics devices. However, until it's finished and works properly -- I think we'd both agree that it shouldn't be on our systems. I know it's not a good test for everything, but have you noticed how many other desktop distros have chosen to include beagle? #17: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:16:48) (reply to #16) Ok, I see your point. Perhaps beagle is indeed not a good solution and I was too narrow minded to realize it. (Though I haven't experienced the CPU problems anymore for about one year, I suppose you are right). Especially since the development of beagle has come to a crawl (the last release: 0.3.9 was released about four weeks ago but it needed nearly half a year to be released and contains only some mere bug fixes). I think, I am going to open a new feature request in openFate. If you (and the other guys) are not against desktop search, but instead against beagle, it could be interesting to discuss why Tracker (http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/index.html) should not become a replacement for beagle. Especially since KDE has now Strigi as a core component. So one can get rid of beagle and use some "quasi native" tools for desktop search (namely "strigi" and "tracker") on Gnome and, respectively, KDE. Anyway, thanks for your reply and the discussion. #18: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:23:53) (reply to #17) Hm, as it seems I cannot open such a request. Wonderful! So perhaps somebody has read this discussion and might be so kind to at least evaluate the request and "perhaps" might open a new feature request concerning the replacement of beagle by Tracker (which is a Gnome Desktop search, but since KDE has already its own Desktop search this should not be that problematic... I hope) And before somebody asks: no I will not file a feature request via bug tracking system. Those usually take weeks or even months before they are answered/evaluated/discussed etc... #19: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-02-19 16:52:12) (reply to #18) Hello Sebastian - I do not take the thread as being "against desktop search", which is a great feature, or against Beagle, which I personally run. The decision is only to have Beagle not be running by default out of the box, but to have it installed and ready. The first time a search is performed, we ask. Users who want desktop search select to run it, and those who are more "frugal" in terms of CPU do not. I am running a 3 year old laptop, and Beagle is running just fine for me. I suspect that's the case for a lot of people. But it is still a good idea to ask for a choice. #20: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-22 03:03:55) (reply to #17) 100% agree. I think tracker/strigi make wonderful replacements. :) #22: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-02-25 00:40:51) (reply to #20) indeed... beagle is to heavy, traker instead, is simply wonderful! #23: Barbara Hudson (barbie_h) (2009-03-04 02:22:21) (reply to #15) I was going to vote in favour of the request, because I've been bitten by beagle bringing machines to a crawl many times, but one thing I've noticed is that, as people move to dual / quad -core machines, it's no longer a big issue. I'm not saying ignore the memory and resource problems - just that even laptops nowadays can run plasma and beagle and still feel responsive. The current system, where it notifies you when it does the initial indexing, is a lot better than the computer slowing to a crawl on a fresh install and people wondering why openSUSE is soooo slow. #21: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2009-02-24 09:10:56) Coolo, I believe this should be done via patterns. #24: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:52:23) (reply to #21) having a desktop search easy to enable sounds like a good to have feature, so I wouldn't simply remove the package from install. But it doesn't make sense on a KDE4 desktop (and it's not there in 11.1 afaik) and it doesn't have to be running by default for GNOME either. But this is something for the beagle maintainers to decide. #25: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:53:33) (reply to #24) that is: it should be off by default (seeing all the votes). But if it's worth to make it easier to turn it on than it is, I leave to those that know. But the solution to enable it, should be within the desktop. #27: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-03-16 18:03:00) Less than "easy way to disable beagle completey during installation" it should even be "disable beagle by default", thank you. #28: Marcel Müller (open_assistant) (2009-03-16 20:32:45) great idea, especially to my slowly pc #30: Gabriel Stein (gabrielstein) (2009-04-03 21:15:44) Totally Agree. I just post on my blog, and I will pay 5 pints of Guinness to the great developer which will do that amazing thing. #31: john andersen (jsamyth) (2009-04-16 20:22:51) I agree Beagle should be an optional item, not installed by default.   There, I've said it.   But an alternative might be to install it and restrict it't indexing BY DEFAULT to the user's home directory, (and perhaps the user's mail spool), and hava a configuration window that allows adding additional directories. That is a feature that might make it more palletable.  But realistically, when this many people arrive at a Future Feature site begging and pleading for a package to dropped from a normal installation you should assume there are some serious flaws with that package.  This site should be about new and improved features we would all like to see, but instead this thread is focused on something that has been rammed down our throats for way too many releases, and which has historically been difficult to remove.   Side issue: Unless you are a Linux Developer there is no point in having it index the entire hard drive.  Your average user has no need of these areas, and experienced users already know where things are, so a generalized indexer that searches the entire disk is a solution looking for a problem. #32: jean-christophe baptiste (phocean) (2009-04-27 11:28:48) Ok for those who want to get an easy way to disable Beagle. But it should be activated by default. I am using Beagle intensively (on Gnome) and I have never got a problem with it. It just rocks and a huge time saver to me. Maybe my hardware is just not obsolete (Core 2 duo laptop)... I think it is the kind of killer app good to show off and that can bring more new users. #33: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-05-12 20:04:51) (reply to #32) you are luky then.. beagle on my pc make them very very slower, it should be disabled by default, if you need it, then you insta/activate it #34: Marc collin (collinm) (2009-07-04 15:03:05) Disable it by default, i use kde... and there is alreay a solution for it.... we could also disable mono... #35: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-07 11:29:54) Vincent, can you do this? As it is our highest rated feature it would be very good to have implemented rather soon then later. Thanks. #36: Vincent Untz (vuntz) (2009-07-07 12:09:24) Well, it depends on what is the decision here: * if it's something that should be done during installation, I have no idea how to implement that. * If it's just disabling beagle by default, I'll need to investigate, but it hopefully only is changing something in a .desktop file. So what's the process on taking a decision here? That being said, just disabling beagle by default might expose a usability issue: if it's disabled, it will not index files. So when the user searches for something for the first time, it will not work and users won't understand it, and will just give up on it. (It might be solvable with a nice message the first time the user does a search, though) + #37: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-07 14:43:12) (reply to #36) + Vincent, please see #1. What you describe is exactly what Federico + suggested as well. So I'd say disable beagle by default and offer + option to run at first search. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305296

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[openFATE 305503] zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Martin Vidner (mvidner) Feature #305503, revision 21 Title: zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories openSUSE-11.2: Candidate Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Description: YUM security plugin allows to filter updates showing only ones that mention certain issues. Example: yum update --security yum update --bz 410101 yum update --cve CVE-2007-5707 --advisory RHSA-2007:1082-5 As our patches contains this metadata, we could add similar functionality to zypper. Scope The scope is only for zypper. Other front ends would require some GUI concept first. Open Issues: libzypp's PoolQuery would need support for subattributes (updateinfo. xml references are stored as subarrays) User experience * Adds command line options like the ones described above. Dependencies * libzypp Contingency Plan * Feature is new, so in a bad scenario it can simple be deactivated. Relations: - updateinfo XML scheme (url: http://git.opensuse.org/?p=projects/zypp/libzypp.git;a=blob_plain;f=zypp/pa…) - Tips and tricks: yum-security (url: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) Documentation Impact: New command line options would need to be documented. Test Case: The testing of this feature can be done creating a repository (for example using enhancerepo) containing patches that reference issues, like described in http://en.opensuse.org/Maintenance/Code11/Howto , and then performing updates passing to zypper command line the issues, confirming that only those issues are shown. Use Case: Sysadmin is only interested in particular updates to solve security issues or specific bug numbers or advisories. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: Sysadmins do not update ther systems without a strict process and maximum care. Therefore it is very important to allow them to update the system to fix a single issue. It would save them the time to look that themselves package per package. Discussion: #1: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2008-12-03 14:51:14) Random notes: - CVE-XXXX-YYYY RPM provides after fixing issues? - OVAL relation? #2: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:02:46) (reply to #1) About CVE provides. Right now the CVE information is in the patch (since 11.0). I don't have anything against having it as Fix(CVE-XXX-XXX) provides, but I am not sure if having them in both makes sense. Specially in the case that one issue needs more than one package, you will need to install all packages fixing the issue, and if you have 2 repos with 2 same packages providing the issue, they will conflict. #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:08:13) (reply to #1) I don't have knowledge how OVAL works, may be you can provide some very concrete example scenarios for the feature described above. What I can say is that the reason why the repository/product compatibility and update information in SLE11/openSUSE 11.1 is supported using CPE ( that is, product can contain a CPE id, and repos can tell to which CPE they are compatible and which CPE they update with fixes ) was to enhance our ability to do semantic queries like relate upstream security issues and installed products. OVAL uses CPE as the platform descriptor AFAIK. #4: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) (2008-12-04 14:58:01) adding rpm provides was also my first idea, but that has a side effect: often enough, CVE numbers are not yet known when the package is built and ends up in QA, and editing rpm provides essentially needs a rebuild, which invalidates QA. so preferably we need a way to update the rpm provides without doing a rebuild (bad) or we need a way to add it to the meta information (which is currently generated via patchinfo and where it is also too late). an idealistic approach would be to make sure that we can update this meta information after patchinfo checkin (entering the data into swamp and autobuild fetches that information when the update is released and adds it to the meta info). #5: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-07 15:52:34) This has quite a bit of customer value. BTW, there may be a duplicate out there #6: Michael Andres (mlandres) (2009-07-01 18:33:01) libzypp-6.9.2 supports PoolQuery of subattributes. So one can e.g search for patches with updateReferenceId "CVE-2007-5707', or of updateReferenceType 'bugzilla",... (I'll provide some sample code) @Jano: I'll provide some code example, that tells how to access and iterate the matching updateReferences. So you could start working on zypper. #7: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:10:56) Thanx! I have a question about the reference types. What types do we support? in updateinfo.rnc (see references) i only see bugzilla and cve Do we want separate options for all supported types, like yum has? #9: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:57:19) (reply to #7) Also, i noticed in 11.1 updates repository, that many bugs have a CVE, but it's only in the description, not in the 'reference' metadata. Only bugzilla is in 'reference'. Do we want to address this? #10: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2009-07-03 15:59:21) (reply to #9) we are not emitting it yet. this also needs to be done :/ #8: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:20:18) Suggestion how the commands could look like: $ zypper fix --search [string] $ zypper fix --bugzilla <#> $ zypper fix --cve <#> #11: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) (2009-07-04 12:11:44) (reply to #8) Please re-think about introducing another term ( fix ), we already have * update * upgrade * patch #12: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-07 10:11:04) (reply to #11) What i try to achieve is to have a way to install the patches fixing the issues and a way to list them (issue number & patch name & (patch) description), search in them. The other alternatives i considered were: $ zypper patch [--bugzilla #] [--cve #] $ zypper list-patches --issues [string] The first command looks nice, but i don't know what to use to list/search the issues - the list-patches command does not seem right to me - looks more like it deserved a new command. $ zypper install [--bugzilla #] [--cve #] $ zypper search --issues [string] In this case, like in the 'list-patches --issues' case, the search command would either need to radically change its output, or user would need to call 'zypper patch-info the_found_patch' to get the patch description. Any other ideas? Why is having a new command a bad thing (esp. compared to having new options in the existing commands)? BTW: (We don't have 'upgrade' :O) + #13: Martin Vidner (mvidner) (2009-07-07 14:33:03) (reply to #12) + Why reinvent the wheel? Can we just copy yum's interface as described + in the referenced yum-security article? + * http://magazine.redhat.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/ + (http://magazine.redhat.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) + * + http://linux.die.net/man/8/yum-security (http://linux.die.net/man/8/yum-security) -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305503

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[openFATE 306326] mount encrypted /home before user config
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Ludwig Nussel (lnussel) Feature #306326, revision 6 Title: mount encrypted /home before user config openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important Requested by: Stefan Behlert (sbehlert) Description: Taken from bugzilla, requested by development. When installing with an encrypted /home partition I am informed during user creation that the /home partition is not mounted (see screenshot in bugzilla). What is missing here is the possibility to enter the password for the partition, mount the partiton and continue with the user configuration. Relations: - mount encrypted /home before user config (novell/bugzilla/id: 456004) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=456004 Discussion: #1: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-06-24 12:37:08) according to the bugzilla, it's a cryptsetup feature. + #2: Ludwig Nussel (lnussel) (2009-07-07 13:11:13) + The default timeout for partitions is two minutes. If some partition + should not have a timeout the option 'timeout=0' needs to be specified + in crypttab. I would not recommend to do that by default for any + partition though. I could set the timeout to 0 if + /var/lib/YaST2/runme_at_boot is present to have an exception for 2nd + stage install. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306326

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[openFATE 305296] Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Vincent Untz (vuntz) Feature #305296, revision 90 Title: Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important Requested by: JP Rosevear (jproseve) Description: We need to either have beagle off by default and allow a user to enable it the first time they search or provide an install option to turn it off. Relations: - Better Beagle Acceptance (feature/id: 303367) - Easy way to disable beagle completely during install (novell/bugzilla/id: 282678) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=282678 Discussion: #1: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-26 20:52:46) I prefer to start with disabled, offer option to run at first search. We are proliferating checkboxes in the installer too much. #8: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-02-10 15:32:39) (reply to #1) I wholehearty agree. Having specific applications in the installer is definitely something that we shouldn't do. Have it disabled by default and make it easy to enable. #9: Manuel Bejarano (mbejaranoc) (2009-02-11 09:29:51) (reply to #1) 100% agree #11: Jean-Daniel Dodin (jdd) (2009-02-15 10:12:29) (reply to #1) +1 #2: Kevin Dupuy (kdupuy9) (2009-01-29 23:40:17) I prefer a more sane option than disabling it by default... instead, allow the user to go in and uninstall it from the installation software screen, just as they would any other app (perhaps make 'Desktop Search' pattern, installed by default?) We just need to insure that uninstalling Beagle doesn't throw up any dependency errors. #3: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-01-30 00:16:23) Every single openSUSE install I've done has resulted in beagle being removed. It slows down the computer, and the firefox extension throws lots of errors. I'm quite happy with how easy it is to remove, and I can see why it's useful -- but unless its seriously improved, I think it should be removed (by default) #26: Peter Nixon (peternixon) (2009-03-11 20:39:01) (reply to #3) +1 #29: Pedro Veloso (pedrodh) (2009-04-01 22:18:05) (reply to #26) Totally agree #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-01-30 15:22:34) Maybe pulseaudio should be too, for slightly similar reasons. :) #5: Rastislav Krupansky (ra100) (2009-01-31 13:10:36) (reply to #4) exactly right ;-) #6: Thomas Beimel (rheydtergekko) (2009-02-01 16:22:09) Yes this would be an perfect option during installation. Especially because I prefer to have a new installation that consumes as less resources as possible. I do not need indexing service and I think many others as well. #7: Andri Andreas Priyanto (turtlix) (2009-02-05 11:20:44) I haven't use beagle since I install openSUSE, and maybe wouldn't or never But I don't know other user. I always remove beagle from my gnome-session-properties. #10: Johnny Stovall (oouc) (2009-02-11 22:50:14) Beagle should be disabled by default. Everyone in the DFW Linux Users Group complained when Suse added it. It causes nothing but trouble for me. #12: Bart Otten (bartotten) (2009-02-16 01:13:58) I agree with the people voting to disable it by default. I think we have to keep focus on the 'consumer' and most of them won't use Kerry/Beagle. ps. KDE4 -and- Beagle is useless. KDE4 uses Strigi and Nepomuk. #13: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-17 12:55:11) Despite all who now have voted for this proposal, I just have to vote against it. At least in the forms discussed here. I use Beagle heavily as do some other people I got convinced to use openSUSE instead of Windows. A good Desktop search was among the arguments to move these people to change their OS (others arguments were Deskbar etc... which btw. does not necessarily need Beagle but gets some interesting advantages IF Beagle is activated). Why not simply ask at startup how to configure some basic system defaults. Among them there could be beagle. So concerning the proposals of Federico Lucifredi, Stephan Kulow and so on, I am definitively of the same mind. Beagle should be installed by default, but it should be easy to switch it "on" or "off" whenever one wants. #14: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-18 01:05:18) (reply to #13) Yes, a search is very useful. Yes, some people find beagle beneficial (as apparently you do). But the vast majority (Currently the vote is at 47:1) of people it doesn't work well with. And that's truly an amazing statistic, as it's super easy to see and use the feature it provides but much harder to see that it's beagle causing so many (resource related) problems. And if that statistic alone isn't enough to convince you it's not a sensible default, then I have absolutely no idea how to. There really should be a resemblance of QA in place, especially for default (and completely optional) packages. #15: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 12:04:23) (reply to #14) Ok, I hope that my comment did not sound as gruff or ... brusque, for I, basically, hoped to present a different opinion. What I did not intend was to, evidently, irritate somebody by not completely assenting to his opinion. See: I am working for a university in Germany. We have 45.000 students and a staff of employees of a size appropriate for this amount of students. We rely heavily on the capabilities of a search system (to be honest: in this case not beagle, but somethings similar to beagle). I am one person who posts here but, to stay in your line of argumentation, statistically I represent so many single individuals, that my vote could be multiplied by a "pretty fight factor". Now the problem is that most of these people just use a search feature but do not understand of configure it. But they will notice when it is gone . These users do not vote, they are not involved in community work, they are not programmers, not system architects, not members of an online community. But they use systems like beagle. I know, as I stated in my first post, some people, which I got to switch their OS, from Windows to openSUSE. These people will miss features, too. Especially if you are so eager so simple remove this feature despite the fact that it was part of the distribution for many years. The more I write here, the angrier I get. I mentioned that Lucifredi and Kulow are of another opinion (disable but no remove the software; make it possible to switch it on or off when needed), an opinion I agree with. Is it possible that YOU ignored that part? This is quite normale for the usual open source community. To me it is a relatively illusive concept, the more I deal with it (and I deal with it for now 9 years) the more I learn about the ignorance it contains. Too many people choose rather to ignore those who have to vote (usually called users) and instead see their opinion as the ultimate measure to decide pro and contra. Did it come to your mind that about 80-90% of those who start to create an account for a portal like openFATE, who pay the time to write some comments and skip through all these proposals in this portal, that 80-90% of these people might perhaps be programmers? Geeks and nerds as they are called nowadays. This is no real statistic representing the opinion of those who use a software, it is a statistic of those how develop a software. Make this clear to you. So to get back on a rather rational level: I recognize that you are of another opinion. That most of the people here are. But, and that was important to me, these votes in here are not a real representation of opinions. I prefer openSUSE after all these years espcially because it was bought by Novell. Because they do research in usability, which is the only real way to ask the customers/the users, how to design the software. That is why I said, that an easy startup QA for the normal user is the best to do. Do not be too ignorant. The users know what they want, even if they miss some technical versatily, they will still take note of features that are missing, of bugs in the browser, of missing parts in the system "that they know worked on a different OS" or whatever else. Perhaps they annot name the source of the problem and do not know if it is a real design issue or a real bug. But they will say that the feature is not how they expected it to be. I recently said to a colleague of mine that the times of Mac OS are nearly over. The only real advantage they have is that they can design an OS without paying too much attention to different hardware. They know exactly which hardware their OS will possible have to run on. If Linux with a nice GNOME, KDE, or-whatever-desktop would run out of the box on ANY posible hardware, with all features running without a problem (Audio, Bluetooth, 3D Graphics are still a problem as we know) it would be undeniable that Linux will be the winner. I see progress made well into that direction. I see that Linux is close to this goal, to solve these issues in nears time (most Graphic Cards now easily work, with only a few exceptions). So please do not disappoint me. I have to lead discussions about Linux/Windows and Linux/MacOSX nearly every week. I do not want to have them led in vain. Look at what Mac and Windows do, they have a search system with an index. Make ours betters, faster and less memory hungry instead of removing it. These who switch from Windows/Mac to Linux (for instance to openSUSE) want to find new and more useful features instead of fewer features. I know this post was too long. I am sorry, but it thought it necessary. #16: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-19 14:33:07) (reply to #15) I agree with everything you said, but you must realize I/we aren't arguing against search. We're arguing against beagle. I personally use google desktop search on a daily basis. And it works well. I assume that it does all its work when I'm not physically using the computer (a policy that is ideal for desktop usage). I'm not advocating its inclusion (primarily license reasons and kde integration reasons) but you should see that I'm not against a search or anything like that. Beagle on the other hand, I've tried to give it a fair shot a few times. To see if it has improved (something I will admit Banshee has done). But its *always* problematic. Something that is echoed daily on IRC and the mailing lists. The firefox extension causes huge amounts errors and slow downs. The actual search program maxs out the CPU. IO brings the computer to a crawl when I need to get work done etc. It's just not pretty. So if Beagle works well, I'd love to use it. But it doesn't and shouldn't be included. Put it this way. I would really like to see kernel initialization of graphics devices. However, until it's finished and works properly -- I think we'd both agree that it shouldn't be on our systems. I know it's not a good test for everything, but have you noticed how many other desktop distros have chosen to include beagle? #17: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:16:48) (reply to #16) Ok, I see your point. Perhaps beagle is indeed not a good solution and I was too narrow minded to realize it. (Though I haven't experienced the CPU problems anymore for about one year, I suppose you are right). Especially since the development of beagle has come to a crawl (the last release: 0.3.9 was released about four weeks ago but it needed nearly half a year to be released and contains only some mere bug fixes). I think, I am going to open a new feature request in openFate. If you (and the other guys) are not against desktop search, but instead against beagle, it could be interesting to discuss why Tracker (http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/index.html) should not become a replacement for beagle. Especially since KDE has now Strigi as a core component. So one can get rid of beagle and use some "quasi native" tools for desktop search (namely "strigi" and "tracker") on Gnome and, respectively, KDE. Anyway, thanks for your reply and the discussion. #18: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:23:53) (reply to #17) Hm, as it seems I cannot open such a request. Wonderful! So perhaps somebody has read this discussion and might be so kind to at least evaluate the request and "perhaps" might open a new feature request concerning the replacement of beagle by Tracker (which is a Gnome Desktop search, but since KDE has already its own Desktop search this should not be that problematic... I hope) And before somebody asks: no I will not file a feature request via bug tracking system. Those usually take weeks or even months before they are answered/evaluated/discussed etc... #19: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-02-19 16:52:12) (reply to #18) Hello Sebastian - I do not take the thread as being "against desktop search", which is a great feature, or against Beagle, which I personally run. The decision is only to have Beagle not be running by default out of the box, but to have it installed and ready. The first time a search is performed, we ask. Users who want desktop search select to run it, and those who are more "frugal" in terms of CPU do not. I am running a 3 year old laptop, and Beagle is running just fine for me. I suspect that's the case for a lot of people. But it is still a good idea to ask for a choice. #20: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-22 03:03:55) (reply to #17) 100% agree. I think tracker/strigi make wonderful replacements. :) #22: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-02-25 00:40:51) (reply to #20) indeed... beagle is to heavy, traker instead, is simply wonderful! #23: Barbara Hudson (barbie_h) (2009-03-04 02:22:21) (reply to #15) I was going to vote in favour of the request, because I've been bitten by beagle bringing machines to a crawl many times, but one thing I've noticed is that, as people move to dual / quad -core machines, it's no longer a big issue. I'm not saying ignore the memory and resource problems - just that even laptops nowadays can run plasma and beagle and still feel responsive. The current system, where it notifies you when it does the initial indexing, is a lot better than the computer slowing to a crawl on a fresh install and people wondering why openSUSE is soooo slow. #21: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2009-02-24 09:10:56) Coolo, I believe this should be done via patterns. #24: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:52:23) (reply to #21) having a desktop search easy to enable sounds like a good to have feature, so I wouldn't simply remove the package from install. But it doesn't make sense on a KDE4 desktop (and it's not there in 11.1 afaik) and it doesn't have to be running by default for GNOME either. But this is something for the beagle maintainers to decide. #25: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:53:33) (reply to #24) that is: it should be off by default (seeing all the votes). But if it's worth to make it easier to turn it on than it is, I leave to those that know. But the solution to enable it, should be within the desktop. #27: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-03-16 18:03:00) Less than "easy way to disable beagle completey during installation" it should even be "disable beagle by default", thank you. #28: Marcel Müller (open_assistant) (2009-03-16 20:32:45) great idea, especially to my slowly pc #30: Gabriel Stein (gabrielstein) (2009-04-03 21:15:44) Totally Agree. I just post on my blog, and I will pay 5 pints of Guinness to the great developer which will do that amazing thing. #31: john andersen (jsamyth) (2009-04-16 20:22:51) I agree Beagle should be an optional item, not installed by default.   There, I've said it.   But an alternative might be to install it and restrict it't indexing BY DEFAULT to the user's home directory, (and perhaps the user's mail spool), and hava a configuration window that allows adding additional directories. That is a feature that might make it more palletable.  But realistically, when this many people arrive at a Future Feature site begging and pleading for a package to dropped from a normal installation you should assume there are some serious flaws with that package.  This site should be about new and improved features we would all like to see, but instead this thread is focused on something that has been rammed down our throats for way too many releases, and which has historically been difficult to remove.   Side issue: Unless you are a Linux Developer there is no point in having it index the entire hard drive.  Your average user has no need of these areas, and experienced users already know where things are, so a generalized indexer that searches the entire disk is a solution looking for a problem. #32: jean-christophe baptiste (phocean) (2009-04-27 11:28:48) Ok for those who want to get an easy way to disable Beagle. But it should be activated by default. I am using Beagle intensively (on Gnome) and I have never got a problem with it. It just rocks and a huge time saver to me. Maybe my hardware is just not obsolete (Core 2 duo laptop)... I think it is the kind of killer app good to show off and that can bring more new users. #33: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-05-12 20:04:51) (reply to #32) you are luky then.. beagle on my pc make them very very slower, it should be disabled by default, if you need it, then you insta/activate it #34: Marc collin (collinm) (2009-07-04 15:03:05) Disable it by default, i use kde... and there is alreay a solution for it.... we could also disable mono... #35: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-07 11:29:54) Vincent, can you do this? As it is our highest rated feature it would be very good to have implemented rather soon then later. Thanks. + #36: Vincent Untz (vuntz) (2009-07-07 12:09:24) + Well, it depends on what is the decision here: + * if it's something that should be done during installation, I have no + idea how to implement that. + * If it's just disabling beagle by default, I'll need to investigate, + but it hopefully only is changing something in a .desktop file. + So what's the process on taking a decision here? + That being said, just disabling beagle by default might expose a + usability issue: if it's disabled, it will not index files. So when the + user searches for something for the first time, it will not work and + users won't understand it, and will just give up on it. (It might be + solvable with a nice message the first time the user does a search, + though) -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305296

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[openFATE 305296] Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Michael Löffler (michl19) Feature #305296, revision 89 Title: Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important Requested by: JP Rosevear (jproseve) Description: We need to either have beagle off by default and allow a user to enable it the first time they search or provide an install option to turn it off. Relations: - Better Beagle Acceptance (feature/id: 303367) - Easy way to disable beagle completely during install (novell/bugzilla/id: 282678) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=282678 Discussion: #1: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-26 20:52:46) I prefer to start with disabled, offer option to run at first search. We are proliferating checkboxes in the installer too much. #8: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-02-10 15:32:39) (reply to #1) I wholehearty agree. Having specific applications in the installer is definitely something that we shouldn't do. Have it disabled by default and make it easy to enable. #9: Manuel Bejarano (mbejaranoc) (2009-02-11 09:29:51) (reply to #1) 100% agree #11: Jean-Daniel Dodin (jdd) (2009-02-15 10:12:29) (reply to #1) +1 #2: Kevin Dupuy (kdupuy9) (2009-01-29 23:40:17) I prefer a more sane option than disabling it by default... instead, allow the user to go in and uninstall it from the installation software screen, just as they would any other app (perhaps make 'Desktop Search' pattern, installed by default?) We just need to insure that uninstalling Beagle doesn't throw up any dependency errors. #3: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-01-30 00:16:23) Every single openSUSE install I've done has resulted in beagle being removed. It slows down the computer, and the firefox extension throws lots of errors. I'm quite happy with how easy it is to remove, and I can see why it's useful -- but unless its seriously improved, I think it should be removed (by default) #26: Peter Nixon (peternixon) (2009-03-11 20:39:01) (reply to #3) +1 #29: Pedro Veloso (pedrodh) (2009-04-01 22:18:05) (reply to #26) Totally agree #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-01-30 15:22:34) Maybe pulseaudio should be too, for slightly similar reasons. :) #5: Rastislav Krupansky (ra100) (2009-01-31 13:10:36) (reply to #4) exactly right ;-) #6: Thomas Beimel (rheydtergekko) (2009-02-01 16:22:09) Yes this would be an perfect option during installation. Especially because I prefer to have a new installation that consumes as less resources as possible. I do not need indexing service and I think many others as well. #7: Andri Andreas Priyanto (turtlix) (2009-02-05 11:20:44) I haven't use beagle since I install openSUSE, and maybe wouldn't or never But I don't know other user. I always remove beagle from my gnome-session-properties. #10: Johnny Stovall (oouc) (2009-02-11 22:50:14) Beagle should be disabled by default. Everyone in the DFW Linux Users Group complained when Suse added it. It causes nothing but trouble for me. #12: Bart Otten (bartotten) (2009-02-16 01:13:58) I agree with the people voting to disable it by default. I think we have to keep focus on the 'consumer' and most of them won't use Kerry/Beagle. ps. KDE4 -and- Beagle is useless. KDE4 uses Strigi and Nepomuk. #13: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-17 12:55:11) Despite all who now have voted for this proposal, I just have to vote against it. At least in the forms discussed here. I use Beagle heavily as do some other people I got convinced to use openSUSE instead of Windows. A good Desktop search was among the arguments to move these people to change their OS (others arguments were Deskbar etc... which btw. does not necessarily need Beagle but gets some interesting advantages IF Beagle is activated). Why not simply ask at startup how to configure some basic system defaults. Among them there could be beagle. So concerning the proposals of Federico Lucifredi, Stephan Kulow and so on, I am definitively of the same mind. Beagle should be installed by default, but it should be easy to switch it "on" or "off" whenever one wants. #14: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-18 01:05:18) (reply to #13) Yes, a search is very useful. Yes, some people find beagle beneficial (as apparently you do). But the vast majority (Currently the vote is at 47:1) of people it doesn't work well with. And that's truly an amazing statistic, as it's super easy to see and use the feature it provides but much harder to see that it's beagle causing so many (resource related) problems. And if that statistic alone isn't enough to convince you it's not a sensible default, then I have absolutely no idea how to. There really should be a resemblance of QA in place, especially for default (and completely optional) packages. #15: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 12:04:23) (reply to #14) Ok, I hope that my comment did not sound as gruff or ... brusque, for I, basically, hoped to present a different opinion. What I did not intend was to, evidently, irritate somebody by not completely assenting to his opinion. See: I am working for a university in Germany. We have 45.000 students and a staff of employees of a size appropriate for this amount of students. We rely heavily on the capabilities of a search system (to be honest: in this case not beagle, but somethings similar to beagle). I am one person who posts here but, to stay in your line of argumentation, statistically I represent so many single individuals, that my vote could be multiplied by a "pretty fight factor". Now the problem is that most of these people just use a search feature but do not understand of configure it. But they will notice when it is gone . These users do not vote, they are not involved in community work, they are not programmers, not system architects, not members of an online community. But they use systems like beagle. I know, as I stated in my first post, some people, which I got to switch their OS, from Windows to openSUSE. These people will miss features, too. Especially if you are so eager so simple remove this feature despite the fact that it was part of the distribution for many years. The more I write here, the angrier I get. I mentioned that Lucifredi and Kulow are of another opinion (disable but no remove the software; make it possible to switch it on or off when needed), an opinion I agree with. Is it possible that YOU ignored that part? This is quite normale for the usual open source community. To me it is a relatively illusive concept, the more I deal with it (and I deal with it for now 9 years) the more I learn about the ignorance it contains. Too many people choose rather to ignore those who have to vote (usually called users) and instead see their opinion as the ultimate measure to decide pro and contra. Did it come to your mind that about 80-90% of those who start to create an account for a portal like openFATE, who pay the time to write some comments and skip through all these proposals in this portal, that 80-90% of these people might perhaps be programmers? Geeks and nerds as they are called nowadays. This is no real statistic representing the opinion of those who use a software, it is a statistic of those how develop a software. Make this clear to you. So to get back on a rather rational level: I recognize that you are of another opinion. That most of the people here are. But, and that was important to me, these votes in here are not a real representation of opinions. I prefer openSUSE after all these years espcially because it was bought by Novell. Because they do research in usability, which is the only real way to ask the customers/the users, how to design the software. That is why I said, that an easy startup QA for the normal user is the best to do. Do not be too ignorant. The users know what they want, even if they miss some technical versatily, they will still take note of features that are missing, of bugs in the browser, of missing parts in the system "that they know worked on a different OS" or whatever else. Perhaps they annot name the source of the problem and do not know if it is a real design issue or a real bug. But they will say that the feature is not how they expected it to be. I recently said to a colleague of mine that the times of Mac OS are nearly over. The only real advantage they have is that they can design an OS without paying too much attention to different hardware. They know exactly which hardware their OS will possible have to run on. If Linux with a nice GNOME, KDE, or-whatever-desktop would run out of the box on ANY posible hardware, with all features running without a problem (Audio, Bluetooth, 3D Graphics are still a problem as we know) it would be undeniable that Linux will be the winner. I see progress made well into that direction. I see that Linux is close to this goal, to solve these issues in nears time (most Graphic Cards now easily work, with only a few exceptions). So please do not disappoint me. I have to lead discussions about Linux/Windows and Linux/MacOSX nearly every week. I do not want to have them led in vain. Look at what Mac and Windows do, they have a search system with an index. Make ours betters, faster and less memory hungry instead of removing it. These who switch from Windows/Mac to Linux (for instance to openSUSE) want to find new and more useful features instead of fewer features. I know this post was too long. I am sorry, but it thought it necessary. #16: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-19 14:33:07) (reply to #15) I agree with everything you said, but you must realize I/we aren't arguing against search. We're arguing against beagle. I personally use google desktop search on a daily basis. And it works well. I assume that it does all its work when I'm not physically using the computer (a policy that is ideal for desktop usage). I'm not advocating its inclusion (primarily license reasons and kde integration reasons) but you should see that I'm not against a search or anything like that. Beagle on the other hand, I've tried to give it a fair shot a few times. To see if it has improved (something I will admit Banshee has done). But its *always* problematic. Something that is echoed daily on IRC and the mailing lists. The firefox extension causes huge amounts errors and slow downs. The actual search program maxs out the CPU. IO brings the computer to a crawl when I need to get work done etc. It's just not pretty. So if Beagle works well, I'd love to use it. But it doesn't and shouldn't be included. Put it this way. I would really like to see kernel initialization of graphics devices. However, until it's finished and works properly -- I think we'd both agree that it shouldn't be on our systems. I know it's not a good test for everything, but have you noticed how many other desktop distros have chosen to include beagle? #17: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:16:48) (reply to #16) Ok, I see your point. Perhaps beagle is indeed not a good solution and I was too narrow minded to realize it. (Though I haven't experienced the CPU problems anymore for about one year, I suppose you are right). Especially since the development of beagle has come to a crawl (the last release: 0.3.9 was released about four weeks ago but it needed nearly half a year to be released and contains only some mere bug fixes). I think, I am going to open a new feature request in openFate. If you (and the other guys) are not against desktop search, but instead against beagle, it could be interesting to discuss why Tracker (http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/index.html) should not become a replacement for beagle. Especially since KDE has now Strigi as a core component. So one can get rid of beagle and use some "quasi native" tools for desktop search (namely "strigi" and "tracker") on Gnome and, respectively, KDE. Anyway, thanks for your reply and the discussion. #18: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:23:53) (reply to #17) Hm, as it seems I cannot open such a request. Wonderful! So perhaps somebody has read this discussion and might be so kind to at least evaluate the request and "perhaps" might open a new feature request concerning the replacement of beagle by Tracker (which is a Gnome Desktop search, but since KDE has already its own Desktop search this should not be that problematic... I hope) And before somebody asks: no I will not file a feature request via bug tracking system. Those usually take weeks or even months before they are answered/evaluated/discussed etc... #19: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-02-19 16:52:12) (reply to #18) Hello Sebastian - I do not take the thread as being "against desktop search", which is a great feature, or against Beagle, which I personally run. The decision is only to have Beagle not be running by default out of the box, but to have it installed and ready. The first time a search is performed, we ask. Users who want desktop search select to run it, and those who are more "frugal" in terms of CPU do not. I am running a 3 year old laptop, and Beagle is running just fine for me. I suspect that's the case for a lot of people. But it is still a good idea to ask for a choice. #20: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-22 03:03:55) (reply to #17) 100% agree. I think tracker/strigi make wonderful replacements. :) #22: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-02-25 00:40:51) (reply to #20) indeed... beagle is to heavy, traker instead, is simply wonderful! #23: Barbara Hudson (barbie_h) (2009-03-04 02:22:21) (reply to #15) I was going to vote in favour of the request, because I've been bitten by beagle bringing machines to a crawl many times, but one thing I've noticed is that, as people move to dual / quad -core machines, it's no longer a big issue. I'm not saying ignore the memory and resource problems - just that even laptops nowadays can run plasma and beagle and still feel responsive. The current system, where it notifies you when it does the initial indexing, is a lot better than the computer slowing to a crawl on a fresh install and people wondering why openSUSE is soooo slow. #21: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2009-02-24 09:10:56) Coolo, I believe this should be done via patterns. #24: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:52:23) (reply to #21) having a desktop search easy to enable sounds like a good to have feature, so I wouldn't simply remove the package from install. But it doesn't make sense on a KDE4 desktop (and it's not there in 11.1 afaik) and it doesn't have to be running by default for GNOME either. But this is something for the beagle maintainers to decide. #25: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:53:33) (reply to #24) that is: it should be off by default (seeing all the votes). But if it's worth to make it easier to turn it on than it is, I leave to those that know. But the solution to enable it, should be within the desktop. #27: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-03-16 18:03:00) Less than "easy way to disable beagle completey during installation" it should even be "disable beagle by default", thank you. #28: Marcel Müller (open_assistant) (2009-03-16 20:32:45) great idea, especially to my slowly pc #30: Gabriel Stein (gabrielstein) (2009-04-03 21:15:44) Totally Agree. I just post on my blog, and I will pay 5 pints of Guinness to the great developer which will do that amazing thing. #31: john andersen (jsamyth) (2009-04-16 20:22:51) I agree Beagle should be an optional item, not installed by default.   There, I've said it.   But an alternative might be to install it and restrict it't indexing BY DEFAULT to the user's home directory, (and perhaps the user's mail spool), and hava a configuration window that allows adding additional directories. That is a feature that might make it more palletable.  But realistically, when this many people arrive at a Future Feature site begging and pleading for a package to dropped from a normal installation you should assume there are some serious flaws with that package.  This site should be about new and improved features we would all like to see, but instead this thread is focused on something that has been rammed down our throats for way too many releases, and which has historically been difficult to remove.   Side issue: Unless you are a Linux Developer there is no point in having it index the entire hard drive.  Your average user has no need of these areas, and experienced users already know where things are, so a generalized indexer that searches the entire disk is a solution looking for a problem. #32: jean-christophe baptiste (phocean) (2009-04-27 11:28:48) Ok for those who want to get an easy way to disable Beagle. But it should be activated by default. I am using Beagle intensively (on Gnome) and I have never got a problem with it. It just rocks and a huge time saver to me. Maybe my hardware is just not obsolete (Core 2 duo laptop)... I think it is the kind of killer app good to show off and that can bring more new users. #33: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-05-12 20:04:51) (reply to #32) you are luky then.. beagle on my pc make them very very slower, it should be disabled by default, if you need it, then you insta/activate it #34: Marc collin (collinm) (2009-07-04 15:03:05) Disable it by default, i use kde... and there is alreay a solution for it.... - we could also disable mono... + #35: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-07 11:29:54) + Vincent, can you do this? As it is our highest rated feature it would + be very good to have implemented rather soon then later. Thanks. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305296

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[openFATE 305503] zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Ján Kupec (jkupec) Feature #305503, revision 20 Title: zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories openSUSE-11.2: Candidate Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Description: YUM security plugin allows to filter updates showing only ones that mention certain issues. Example: yum update --security yum update --bz 410101 yum update --cve CVE-2007-5707 --advisory RHSA-2007:1082-5 As our patches contains this metadata, we could add similar functionality to zypper. Scope The scope is only for zypper. Other front ends would require some GUI concept first. Open Issues: libzypp's PoolQuery would need support for subattributes (updateinfo. xml references are stored as subarrays) User experience * Adds command line options like the ones described above. Dependencies * libzypp Contingency Plan * Feature is new, so in a bad scenario it can simple be deactivated. Relations: - updateinfo XML scheme (url: http://git.opensuse.org/?p=projects/zypp/libzypp.git;a=blob_plain;f=zypp/pa…) - Tips and tricks: yum-security (url: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) Documentation Impact: New command line options would need to be documented. Test Case: The testing of this feature can be done creating a repository (for example using enhancerepo) containing patches that reference issues, like described in http://en.opensuse.org/Maintenance/Code11/Howto , and then performing updates passing to zypper command line the issues, confirming that only those issues are shown. Use Case: Sysadmin is only interested in particular updates to solve security issues or specific bug numbers or advisories. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: Sysadmins do not update ther systems without a strict process and maximum care. Therefore it is very important to allow them to update the system to fix a single issue. It would save them the time to look that themselves package per package. Discussion: #1: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2008-12-03 14:51:14) Random notes: - CVE-XXXX-YYYY RPM provides after fixing issues? - OVAL relation? #2: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:02:46) (reply to #1) About CVE provides. Right now the CVE information is in the patch (since 11.0). I don't have anything against having it as Fix(CVE-XXX-XXX) provides, but I am not sure if having them in both makes sense. Specially in the case that one issue needs more than one package, you will need to install all packages fixing the issue, and if you have 2 repos with 2 same packages providing the issue, they will conflict. #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:08:13) (reply to #1) I don't have knowledge how OVAL works, may be you can provide some very concrete example scenarios for the feature described above. What I can say is that the reason why the repository/product compatibility and update information in SLE11/openSUSE 11.1 is supported using CPE ( that is, product can contain a CPE id, and repos can tell to which CPE they are compatible and which CPE they update with fixes ) was to enhance our ability to do semantic queries like relate upstream security issues and installed products. OVAL uses CPE as the platform descriptor AFAIK. #4: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) (2008-12-04 14:58:01) adding rpm provides was also my first idea, but that has a side effect: often enough, CVE numbers are not yet known when the package is built and ends up in QA, and editing rpm provides essentially needs a rebuild, which invalidates QA. so preferably we need a way to update the rpm provides without doing a rebuild (bad) or we need a way to add it to the meta information (which is currently generated via patchinfo and where it is also too late). an idealistic approach would be to make sure that we can update this meta information after patchinfo checkin (entering the data into swamp and autobuild fetches that information when the update is released and adds it to the meta info). #5: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-07 15:52:34) This has quite a bit of customer value. BTW, there may be a duplicate out there #6: Michael Andres (mlandres) (2009-07-01 18:33:01) libzypp-6.9.2 supports PoolQuery of subattributes. So one can e.g search for patches with updateReferenceId "CVE-2007-5707', or of updateReferenceType 'bugzilla",... (I'll provide some sample code) @Jano: I'll provide some code example, that tells how to access and iterate the matching updateReferences. So you could start working on zypper. #7: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:10:56) Thanx! I have a question about the reference types. What types do we support? in updateinfo.rnc (see references) i only see bugzilla and cve Do we want separate options for all supported types, like yum has? #9: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:57:19) (reply to #7) Also, i noticed in 11.1 updates repository, that many bugs have a CVE, but it's only in the description, not in the 'reference' metadata. Only bugzilla is in 'reference'. Do we want to address this? #10: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2009-07-03 15:59:21) (reply to #9) we are not emitting it yet. this also needs to be done :/ #8: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:20:18) Suggestion how the commands could look like: $ zypper fix --search [string] $ zypper fix --bugzilla <#> $ zypper fix --cve <#> #11: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) (2009-07-04 12:11:44) (reply to #8) Please re-think about introducing another term ( fix ), we already have * update * upgrade * patch + #12: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-07 10:11:04) (reply to #11) + What i try to achieve is to have a way to install the patches fixing + the issues and a way to list them (issue number & patch name & (patch) + description), search in them. The other alternatives i considered were: + $ zypper patch [--bugzilla #] [--cve #] + $ zypper list-patches --issues [string] + The first command looks nice, but i don't know what to use to + list/search the issues - the list-patches command does not seem right + to me - looks more like it deserved a new command. + $ zypper install [--bugzilla #] [--cve #] + $ zypper search --issues [string] + In this case, like in the 'list-patches --issues' case, the search + command would either need to radically change its output, or user would + need to call 'zypper patch-info the_found_patch' to get the patch + description. + Any other ideas? Why is having a new command a bad thing (esp. compared + to having new options in the existing commands)? + BTW: (We don't have 'upgrade' :O) -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305503

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[openFATE 306665] KVM reaches supported status
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 06 Jul '09

06 Jul '09

Feature added by: Bruce Rogers (bfrogers) Feature #306665, revision 1 Title: KVM reaches supported status Requested by: Bruce Rogers (bfrogers) Description: KVM currently has an unsupported status in SLE 11. I propose we move it to a supported status for SP1 by taking the following actions: - incorporating the latest stable release of kvm userspace and kernel-module (kvm) which coincides with the SLE11 SP1 development cycle - ensuring that the "in-box" virtualization related tools and infrastructure which today support Xen virtualization be also made to support KVM. This would include YaST virtualization features, libvirt, virt-manager, virt-viewer, vm-install, ... - providing adequate testing early in the release cycle to verify stability, hardware compatability, and expected functionality - supporting only x86_64 host - support the following guests (list mirrors Xen supported guest list with the exception of NetWare being dropped): SLES 9 SP4, SLES 10 SP2 (SP3), SLES 11 (SP1), RHEL4, RHEL5, Windos XP, Windows Vista, Windows Server 2003 SP2, Windows Server 2008 As noted above NetWare support is not indicated. If this support is needed, a concerted effort would be required, since it does not appear to work correctly with current kvm versions. PM would need to review the list of expected guests to be supported. The above list is a starting point for discussion. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306665

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[openFATE 305623] Remove gnomesu dependancies from YaST
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 06 Jul '09

06 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Gabriel Burt (gabrielburt) Feature #305623, revision 11 Title: Remove gnomesu dependancies from YaST openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) Description: The Gnome team informs me gnomesu is obsoleted. We need to stop depending on gnomesu on YaST, ideally moving towards PolicyKit as much as possible but at a minimum matching the current mainline Gnome behavior. Discussion: #5: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2009-06-02 11:43:54) The only dependency I found is the yast2-control-center-gnome package; Jared, can you handle it? #6: Jared Allen (jpallen) (2009-07-01 17:09:54) (reply to #5) Yes, we'll need to look into an alternative. I'm not sure that PolicyKit itself is enough to replace the functionality of gnomesu. I'll ask Gabriel to look into this. + #7: Gabriel Burt (gabrielburt) (2009-07-06 22:11:34) (reply to #6) + $ sudo zypper remove libgnomesu The following packages are going to be + REMOVED: deskbar-applet gedit gedit-lang gnome-applets gnome-applets- + lang gnome-python-desktop libgnomeprintui libgnomeprintui-lang + libgnomesu libgnomesu0 libgnomesu-lang planner planner-lang tomboy + tomboy-lang yast2-control-center-gnome + + So those are the packages on a default GNOME install that depend on + libgnomesu. + + To replace this with something powered by PolicyKit, it looks like gksu + is the best option (though Rodrigo wsa working on AdminKit, but it + never got traction or a lot of work, from what I can tell). Vincent + has a related FATE feature opened, FATE #305640 - but it's more + general, deals with getting rid of gnomesu entirely. Should we keep + these boht open/separate? + + The actual usage of gnomesu is coming from a SUSE patch to libgnome- + desktop. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305623

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[openFATE 305544] Routing setup with mixed static / dynamic interfaces
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 06 Jul '09

06 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Thorsten Kukuk (kukuk) Feature #305544, revision 5 Title: Routing setup with mixed static / dynamic interfaces - openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation + openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Thorsten Kukuk (kukuk) + reject date: 2009-07-06 14:07:46 + reject reason: Can be done as research or hackweek project. Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: jo de baer (jdebaer) Description: There seem to be room for enhancements in the routing setup in netcontrol alias ifup alias the "traditional network setup", especially in cases where a static (default-)route is configured for one interface and same route gets applied dynamically (via dhcp) on another one. For dhcp, there is a config option DHCLIENT_SET_DEFAULT_ROUTE (default is "yes"), where the user can disallow to set a default route, but it seems to be not sufficient. It would make sense to review the route setup and improve it (e.g. doing some interface ranking?). Relations: - (ifup) Route not set up correctly when one interface static and second interface dhcp. (novell/bugzilla/id: 309165) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309165 Discussion: #1: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-06-05 14:52:07) I find it a bit challenging for a feature if even the requester rates it "only" desirable. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305544

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[openFATE 306650] Improve on osc
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 06 Jul '09

06 Jul '09

Feature added by: Juergen Weigert (jnweiger) Feature #306650, revision 1 Title: Improve on osc Hackweek IV: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Juergen Weigert (jnweiger) Description: a) make osc a better zypper osc search is faster than zypper search, although it searches through a larger database. If it had an option to restrict search to the repos, I am currently using (/etc/zypp/repos.d/*.repo), it would be even faster. osc install should be a shorthand to sudo zypper -p http://download.opensuse.org/repositories//repo --no-refresh install As a rough start. This would save us a lot of megabytes of primary.xml loading. It would need a way to make sure, the package is really taken from the named repo. (disable all other repos temporarily??) Zypper still prefers to silently switch to some other repo for arcane reasons (e.g. better matching version number, vendor-lock-in, simpler dependency chains). b) make osc a good replacement for autobuild tools * osc getpac [[-r] ] * where should also accept names like STABLE, sles11, ... and * osc should select the correct build service based on the given * create a branch from the corresponding devel project, or warn if an old branch exists * checkout the branch. * osc submitpac [-r ] [-a|-b|-c] -m * optionally run a local build (unless -a or -b). * checkin the package. * file a submit request against the devel project * if -c is specified, also file a submitrequest from the devel project to the * osc is_maintained * list projects where this package has been previously submitted to. (special variant of osc search ?) * osc maintainer * use the devel project of Factory/ to find the bugowners from osc meta pkg, or if none, the maintainers from osc meta prj. see also home:jnweiger:jw-settings/osc-wrapper.pl for reference. All this should be built into osc itself. Doing it as a wrapper is okay only for personal experiments, but not for public consumption. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306650

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[openFATE 306651] Improve on osc
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 06 Jul '09

06 Jul '09

Feature added by: Juergen Weigert (jnweiger) Feature #306651, revision 1 Title: Improve on osc Hackweek IV: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Juergen Weigert (jnweiger) Description: a) make osc a better zypper osc search is faster than zypper search, although it searches through a larger database. If it had an option to restrict search to the repos, I am currently using (/etc/zypp/repos.d/*.repo), it would be even faster. osc install {project} {package} should be a shorthand for sudo zypper -p http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/{project}/repo --no-refresh install {package} As a rough start. This would save us a lot of megabytes of primary.xml loading. It would need a way to make sure, the package is really taken from the named repo. (disable all other repos temporarily??) Zypper still prefers to silently switch to some other repo for arcane reasons (e.g. better matching version number, vendor-lock-in, simpler dependency chains). b) make osc a good replacement for autobuild tools * osc getpac [[-r] {project}] {package} * where {project} should also accept names like STABLE, sles11, ... and * osc should select the correct build service based on the given {project} * create a branch from the corresponding devel project, or warn if an old branch exists * checkout the branch. * osc submitpac [-r {project}] [-a|-b|-c] -m{message} * optionally run a local build (if -b). * checkin the package. * file a submit request against the devel project * if -c is specified, also file a submitrequest from the devel project to the {project} * osc is_maintained {package} * list projects where this package has been previously submitted to. (special variant of osc search ?) * osc maintainer{package} * use the devel project of Factory/{package} to find the bugowners from osc meta pkg, or if none, the maintainers from osc meta prj. see also home:jnweiger:jw-settings/osc-wrapper.pl for reference. All this should be built into osc itself. Doing it as a wrapper is okay only for personal experiments, but not for public consumption. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306651

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[openFATE 120326] Resume download
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 04 Jul '09

04 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Michal Papis (mpapis) Feature #120326, revision 71 Title: Resume download openSUSE-10.2: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) reject date: 2006-09-21 09:56:17 reject reason: Not enough resources to implement in time. Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Desirable openSUSE-10.3: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) reject date: 2007-07-25 15:20:32 reject reason: Out of time. Postponing. Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Desirable openSUSE-11.0: Rejected by Jiri Srain (jsrain) reject date: 2008-03-28 13:51:03 reject reason: Out of resources for 11.0. Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Important openSUSE-11.1: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) reject date: 2008-07-01 11:34:46 reject reason: Postponing, needs downloading refactor. Priority Requester: Desirable openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Desirable Requested by: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) Description: YaST/YOU times out too easy when downloading large packages like kde- base (14 MB) over a single ISDN connection. Please cache the half downloaded package so I don't have to start from the beginning again. See http://bugzilla.suse.de/show_bug.cgi?id=9740 (http://bugzilla.suse.de/show_bug.cgi?id=9740) http://bugzilla.suse.de/show_bug.cgi?id=278507 (http://bugzilla.suse.de/show_bug.cgi?id=9740) Discussion: #1: Gerald Pfeifer (geraldpfeifer) (2006-06-30 17:40:31) Klaus, do you now whether this is still an issue? #2: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) (2006-06-30 18:38:23) We still have very large packages (kernel, OpenOffice_org) which might not download completely in one go. #5: Milisav Radmanic (radmanic) (2006-09-08 15:25:57) (reply to #4) this applies to the media manager and Jiri already agreed to return this back to the YAST team, since Marius only helped out during CODE 10. Marius will of course help with the implementation, by sharing his knowledge. #7: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2007-11-23 10:32:46) Related to commit-refactoring. #9: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2008-06-12 20:21:33) Klaus, are you still running ISDN? just kidding :-) Stano, please your opinion on workload - is this easily achievable? if not, there are hgher priorities. #10: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2008-06-20 13:10:21) (reply to #9) Jiri, could we get estimate for this? #11: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2008-08-04 08:59:34) (reply to #10) Since curl itself does support resuming download, then this feature should not be hard to be implemented. #12: Ruchir Brahmbhatt (ruchir) (2009-01-17 12:07:25) I also vote for this feature. #13: Dmitry Mittov (michael_knight) (2009-01-19 09:01:09) It is also a great problem when you use slow mirror. download.opensuse. org redirects me to one of yandex mirrors (score 20). And I have timeout on big packages. #14: Piotrek Juzwiak (benderbendingrodriguez) (2009-01-21 18:17:13) I'd vote at least for a way to change the timeout settings for YaST or it doesn't solve the problem? #15: Alam Aby Bashit (init7) (2009-01-22 09:35:17) I'd like to vote this feature implemented in 11.2. You surely want to have resume capability if you have unreliable yet slow internet connection for say, updating KDE 4.2 :) #16: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-01-22 15:14:44) (reply to #15) Please stop this "I vote for this" or "+1" or "mee too" comments. There is no voting system in FATE yet, but following a discussion about "I want this too" makes hard to evaluate features. #17: James Mason (bear454) (2009-01-24 06:05:01) Could this be accomplished using a bittorrent backend instead of curl ? #18: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-01-30 15:31:33) (reply to #17) ISDN is already slow as it is. I would not want to spend more time downloading just because of the metadata traffic that is going to happen. Not to mention what happens if there are no peers around or they configured themselves to upload-limit themselves. Still, most download.opensuse.org downloads are faster than a torrent for me. #19: Pascal Bleser (pbleser) (2009-03-02 08:42:26) Caching is one thing. But even using retries in curl would help, see "curl --retries". #20: Piotrek Juzwiak (benderbendingrodriguez) (2009-04-23 16:38:17) It could be accomplished by using aria for downloading packages? There would be no more problems with timeouts and bad checksums ? #21: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-04-23 17:36:18) (reply to #20) Actually we are already using aria in current development branch, so this is not so urgent anymore. Still, the download can be interrupted also in other ways than connection timeout, e.g. user decision, sudden power outage, etc... Does anyone know whether aria supports resuming? (Implementing this for the curl backend is not important anymore). #22: Markus K (kamikazow) (2009-04-25 12:49:41) (reply to #21) Yes, aria supports resuming -- even better than wget (don't know about curl), because aria uses the file size to check whether the to-be- downloaded file changed. #23: Peter Poeml (poeml) (2009-04-28 09:14:12) (reply to #21) It does. See section "Resuming Download" in its man page (http://aria2.sourceforge.net/aria2c.1.html#_resuming_download) ; and also note the -c option. #24: T. J. Brumfield (enderandrew) (2009-06-12 23:35:43) Perhaps as an addendum to this feature, I'd like to see the option to set a number of automatic retries. If Yast tells me it needs to download 3 gigs worth of packages, I don't want to watch for one package to timeout, hanging the whole process up. I'd like to configure it so that it will automatically retry the package X times, then skip the package and move on. + #25: Michal Papis (mpapis) (2009-07-04 21:14:32) (reply to #24) + Good thing would be here to watch network status (maybe by ping'ing the + download server each few minutes, and resume download after it is back + again. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/120326

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[openFATE 120340] Run download and install in parallel
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 04 Jul '09

04 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Michal Papis (mpapis) Feature #120340, revision 89 Title: Run download and install in parallel openSUSE-10.2: Rejected by Klaus Kämpf (kwk) reject date: 2006-08-09 11:36:10 reject reason: Not possible in 10.2 timeframe Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-10.3: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) reject date: 2007-08-01 10:25:01 reject reason: Out of time. Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important openSUSE-11.0: Rejected by Jiri Srain (jsrain) reject date: 2008-03-28 13:56:11 reject reason: Out of resources for 11.0. Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important openSUSE-11.1: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) reject date: 2008-07-11 12:06:35 reject reason: This needs to wait. Postponing. Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Christoph Thiel (cthiel1) reject date: 2009-06-03 08:43:03 reject reason: No resources for 11.2. Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important Requested by: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) Requested by: Peter Poeml (poeml) Requested by: Reinhard Max (rmax) Description: Network installation could be improved by running package download and package installation in parallel. References: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=60844 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=209799 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=128050 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=370457 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=370054 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=385711 http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp/Failover http://metalinker.org/ Fate #300660: Download package groups before install Discussion: #2: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) (2006-08-09 11:36:42) Michael already looked at this. Should be further evaluated for 10.3 #3: Edith Parzefall (emapedl) (2007-07-31 16:56:12) Problem is: what do we do if we lost the network connection when only half the packages are installed? #7: Reinhard Max (rmax) (2008-04-10 11:42:43) (reply to #3) I think this is a general problem for network based installations. Can you elaborate if/why you see this as a special problem when download and installation are running in parallel? #8: Peter Poeml (poeml) (2008-05-19 14:49:53) (reply to #7) For reliable operation of a business critical server, it is a must that packages are downloaded first, before the installation/update is started. Otherwise a network outage can lead to a broken system which is half updated. So if parallel download/install is implemented (for desktop users, maybe...) then please make sure that it is possible to disable it. #9: Reinhard Max (rmax) (2008-05-19 16:01:15) (reply to #8) As we just sorted out on IRC, the current implementation also doesn't allow to complete download before starting installation and the feature proposed here wouldn't make this worse. But as the wish of server admins to have all packages downloaded before starting to install them is very valid, I think we should extend this feature request to contain that requirement as well, and probably rename it to "decouple download and installation". If download and installation are properly decoupled, it should just be a matter of the parameters the algorithm is called with to get one of the following behaviours: * Download and install packages one by one (as it is now) * Keep downloading subsequent packages while installing (as originally proposed here) * Use a fixed-size download cache for flow control between download an installations (in situations where download is faster than installation and disk space is limited) * Download all packages of an update or installation and install them afterwards (as requested by Peter for server admins) #10: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2008-05-20 10:22:10) (reply to #9) We already do have similar feature: #300660: Download package groups before install #4: Edith Parzefall (emapedl) (2007-07-31 16:57:22) Please reject for 10.3. #5: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-01-10 16:23:46) This is included in the ZYpp plan for 11.0, however implementation will start after beta. Will keep in evaluation, it depends on other milestones for beta1 #14: Chris Hills (chaz6) (2009-02-16 16:42:06) Is there a feature request to install using both the base and updates repo so that the latest packages available at install-time are used, thus saving bandwidth? #15: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2009-02-17 08:45:38) (reply to #14) This is how it works for quite some time. Repositories providing patches also provide the packages so that they can be installed directly from the update repositories (provided they contain newer version). #16: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-06-02 15:18:00) For 11.2 we will focus on flexibility of the download and install order (like installing after everything is downloaded), however parallel stuff should be done after we have this in place. Please reject. + #17: Michal Papis (mpapis) (2009-07-04 20:58:23) + I think great example here may be Gentoo, there You can chose the way + of getting packages, by default download and installation go in + paraler, but it is possible to get first sources and then run + build/installation. + If you are on the default and something breaks, ex. network, Yuo can + always resume the last download&installation task. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/120340

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[openFATE 306610] Package magician
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 04 Jul '09

04 Jul '09

Feature added by: Cornelius Schumacher (cschum) Feature #306610, revision 1 Title: Package magician Requested by: Cornelius Schumacher (cschum) Description: I would love to have a UI for the build service for rapidpackage creation. Ideally this would cover RPMs and Debian packages for allsupported distributions under an interface which is simple to use and hides allthe nasty packaging details an upstream developer doesn't want to know about. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306610

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[openFATE 306612] Clubwagon
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 04 Jul '09

04 Jul '09

Feature added by: Cornelius Schumacher (cschum) Feature #306612, revision 1 Title: Clubwagon Requested by: Cornelius Schumacher (cschum) Description: This is the dormant project to write a web tool for managingassociations. In Germany there are hundreds of thousands of them (e.V.), and allhave to manage members, budgets, meetings, etc. This would be straight-forwardRails programming, so in a week quite a bit could be accomplished. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306612

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[openFATE 305296] Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 04 Jul '09

04 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Marc collin (collinm) Feature #305296, revision 87 Title: Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important Requested by: JP Rosevear (jproseve) Description: We need to either have beagle off by default and allow a user to enable it the first time they search or provide an install option to turn it off. Relations: - Better Beagle Acceptance (feature/id: 303367) - Easy way to disable beagle completely during install (novell/bugzilla/id: 282678) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=282678 Discussion: #1: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-26 20:52:46) I prefer to start with disabled, offer option to run at first search. We are proliferating checkboxes in the installer too much. #8: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-02-10 15:32:39) (reply to #1) I wholehearty agree. Having specific applications in the installer is definitely something that we shouldn't do. Have it disabled by default and make it easy to enable. #9: Manuel Bejarano (mbejaranoc) (2009-02-11 09:29:51) (reply to #1) 100% agree #11: Jean-Daniel Dodin (jdd) (2009-02-15 10:12:29) (reply to #1) +1 #2: Kevin Dupuy (kdupuy9) (2009-01-29 23:40:17) I prefer a more sane option than disabling it by default... instead, allow the user to go in and uninstall it from the installation software screen, just as they would any other app (perhaps make 'Desktop Search' pattern, installed by default?) We just need to insure that uninstalling Beagle doesn't throw up any dependency errors. #3: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-01-30 00:16:23) Every single openSUSE install I've done has resulted in beagle being removed. It slows down the computer, and the firefox extension throws lots of errors. I'm quite happy with how easy it is to remove, and I can see why it's useful -- but unless its seriously improved, I think it should be removed (by default) #26: Peter Nixon (peternixon) (2009-03-11 20:39:01) (reply to #3) +1 #29: Pedro Veloso (pedrodh) (2009-04-01 22:18:05) (reply to #26) Totally agree #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-01-30 15:22:34) Maybe pulseaudio should be too, for slightly similar reasons. :) #5: Rastislav Krupansky (ra100) (2009-01-31 13:10:36) (reply to #4) exactly right ;-) #6: Thomas Beimel (rheydtergekko) (2009-02-01 16:22:09) Yes this would be an perfect option during installation. Especially because I prefer to have a new installation that consumes as less resources as possible. I do not need indexing service and I think many others as well. #7: Andri Andreas Priyanto (turtlix) (2009-02-05 11:20:44) I haven't use beagle since I install openSUSE, and maybe wouldn't or never But I don't know other user. I always remove beagle from my gnome-session-properties. #10: Johnny Stovall (oouc) (2009-02-11 22:50:14) Beagle should be disabled by default. Everyone in the DFW Linux Users Group complained when Suse added it. It causes nothing but trouble for me. #12: Bart Otten (bartotten) (2009-02-16 01:13:58) I agree with the people voting to disable it by default. I think we have to keep focus on the 'consumer' and most of them won't use Kerry/Beagle. ps. KDE4 -and- Beagle is useless. KDE4 uses Strigi and Nepomuk. #13: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-17 12:55:11) Despite all who now have voted for this proposal, I just have to vote against it. At least in the forms discussed here. I use Beagle heavily as do some other people I got convinced to use openSUSE instead of Windows. A good Desktop search was among the arguments to move these people to change their OS (others arguments were Deskbar etc... which btw. does not necessarily need Beagle but gets some interesting advantages IF Beagle is activated). Why not simply ask at startup how to configure some basic system defaults. Among them there could be beagle. So concerning the proposals of Federico Lucifredi, Stephan Kulow and so on, I am definitively of the same mind. Beagle should be installed by default, but it should be easy to switch it "on" or "off" whenever one wants. #14: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-18 01:05:18) (reply to #13) Yes, a search is very useful. Yes, some people find beagle beneficial (as apparently you do). But the vast majority (Currently the vote is at 47:1) of people it doesn't work well with. And that's truly an amazing statistic, as it's super easy to see and use the feature it provides but much harder to see that it's beagle causing so many (resource related) problems. And if that statistic alone isn't enough to convince you it's not a sensible default, then I have absolutely no idea how to. There really should be a resemblance of QA in place, especially for default (and completely optional) packages. #15: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 12:04:23) (reply to #14) Ok, I hope that my comment did not sound as gruff or ... brusque, for I, basically, hoped to present a different opinion. What I did not intend was to, evidently, irritate somebody by not completely assenting to his opinion. See: I am working for a university in Germany. We have 45.000 students and a staff of employees of a size appropriate for this amount of students. We rely heavily on the capabilities of a search system (to be honest: in this case not beagle, but somethings similar to beagle). I am one person who posts here but, to stay in your line of argumentation, statistically I represent so many single individuals, that my vote could be multiplied by a "pretty fight factor". Now the problem is that most of these people just use a search feature but do not understand of configure it. But they will notice when it is gone . These users do not vote, they are not involved in community work, they are not programmers, not system architects, not members of an online community. But they use systems like beagle. I know, as I stated in my first post, some people, which I got to switch their OS, from Windows to openSUSE. These people will miss features, too. Especially if you are so eager so simple remove this feature despite the fact that it was part of the distribution for many years. The more I write here, the angrier I get. I mentioned that Lucifredi and Kulow are of another opinion (disable but no remove the software; make it possible to switch it on or off when needed), an opinion I agree with. Is it possible that YOU ignored that part? This is quite normale for the usual open source community. To me it is a relatively illusive concept, the more I deal with it (and I deal with it for now 9 years) the more I learn about the ignorance it contains. Too many people choose rather to ignore those who have to vote (usually called users) and instead see their opinion as the ultimate measure to decide pro and contra. Did it come to your mind that about 80-90% of those who start to create an account for a portal like openFATE, who pay the time to write some comments and skip through all these proposals in this portal, that 80-90% of these people might perhaps be programmers? Geeks and nerds as they are called nowadays. This is no real statistic representing the opinion of those who use a software, it is a statistic of those how develop a software. Make this clear to you. So to get back on a rather rational level: I recognize that you are of another opinion. That most of the people here are. But, and that was important to me, these votes in here are not a real representation of opinions. I prefer openSUSE after all these years espcially because it was bought by Novell. Because they do research in usability, which is the only real way to ask the customers/the users, how to design the software. That is why I said, that an easy startup QA for the normal user is the best to do. Do not be too ignorant. The users know what they want, even if they miss some technical versatily, they will still take note of features that are missing, of bugs in the browser, of missing parts in the system "that they know worked on a different OS" or whatever else. Perhaps they annot name the source of the problem and do not know if it is a real design issue or a real bug. But they will say that the feature is not how they expected it to be. I recently said to a colleague of mine that the times of Mac OS are nearly over. The only real advantage they have is that they can design an OS without paying too much attention to different hardware. They know exactly which hardware their OS will possible have to run on. If Linux with a nice GNOME, KDE, or-whatever-desktop would run out of the box on ANY posible hardware, with all features running without a problem (Audio, Bluetooth, 3D Graphics are still a problem as we know) it would be undeniable that Linux will be the winner. I see progress made well into that direction. I see that Linux is close to this goal, to solve these issues in nears time (most Graphic Cards now easily work, with only a few exceptions). So please do not disappoint me. I have to lead discussions about Linux/Windows and Linux/MacOSX nearly every week. I do not want to have them led in vain. Look at what Mac and Windows do, they have a search system with an index. Make ours betters, faster and less memory hungry instead of removing it. These who switch from Windows/Mac to Linux (for instance to openSUSE) want to find new and more useful features instead of fewer features. I know this post was too long. I am sorry, but it thought it necessary. #16: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-19 14:33:07) (reply to #15) I agree with everything you said, but you must realize I/we aren't arguing against search. We're arguing against beagle. I personally use google desktop search on a daily basis. And it works well. I assume that it does all its work when I'm not physically using the computer (a policy that is ideal for desktop usage). I'm not advocating its inclusion (primarily license reasons and kde integration reasons) but you should see that I'm not against a search or anything like that. Beagle on the other hand, I've tried to give it a fair shot a few times. To see if it has improved (something I will admit Banshee has done). But its *always* problematic. Something that is echoed daily on IRC and the mailing lists. The firefox extension causes huge amounts errors and slow downs. The actual search program maxs out the CPU. IO brings the computer to a crawl when I need to get work done etc. It's just not pretty. So if Beagle works well, I'd love to use it. But it doesn't and shouldn't be included. Put it this way. I would really like to see kernel initialization of graphics devices. However, until it's finished and works properly -- I think we'd both agree that it shouldn't be on our systems. I know it's not a good test for everything, but have you noticed how many other desktop distros have chosen to include beagle? #17: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:16:48) (reply to #16) Ok, I see your point. Perhaps beagle is indeed not a good solution and I was too narrow minded to realize it. (Though I haven't experienced the CPU problems anymore for about one year, I suppose you are right). Especially since the development of beagle has come to a crawl (the last release: 0.3.9 was released about four weeks ago but it needed nearly half a year to be released and contains only some mere bug fixes). I think, I am going to open a new feature request in openFate. If you (and the other guys) are not against desktop search, but instead against beagle, it could be interesting to discuss why Tracker (http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/index.html) should not become a replacement for beagle. Especially since KDE has now Strigi as a core component. So one can get rid of beagle and use some "quasi native" tools for desktop search (namely "strigi" and "tracker") on Gnome and, respectively, KDE. Anyway, thanks for your reply and the discussion. #18: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 18:23:53) (reply to #17) Hm, as it seems I cannot open such a request. Wonderful! So perhaps somebody has read this discussion and might be so kind to at least evaluate the request and "perhaps" might open a new feature request concerning the replacement of beagle by Tracker (which is a Gnome Desktop search, but since KDE has already its own Desktop search this should not be that problematic... I hope) And before somebody asks: no I will not file a feature request via bug tracking system. Those usually take weeks or even months before they are answered/evaluated/discussed etc... #19: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-02-19 16:52:12) (reply to #18) Hello Sebastian - I do not take the thread as being "against desktop search", which is a great feature, or against Beagle, which I personally run. The decision is only to have Beagle not be running by default out of the box, but to have it installed and ready. The first time a search is performed, we ask. Users who want desktop search select to run it, and those who are more "frugal" in terms of CPU do not. I am running a 3 year old laptop, and Beagle is running just fine for me. I suspect that's the case for a lot of people. But it is still a good idea to ask for a choice. #20: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-22 03:03:55) (reply to #17) 100% agree. I think tracker/strigi make wonderful replacements. :) #22: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-02-25 00:40:51) (reply to #20) indeed... beagle is to heavy, traker instead, is simply wonderful! #23: Barbara Hudson (barbie_h) (2009-03-04 02:22:21) (reply to #15) I was going to vote in favour of the request, because I've been bitten by beagle bringing machines to a crawl many times, but one thing I've noticed is that, as people move to dual / quad -core machines, it's no longer a big issue. I'm not saying ignore the memory and resource problems - just that even laptops nowadays can run plasma and beagle and still feel responsive. The current system, where it notifies you when it does the initial indexing, is a lot better than the computer slowing to a crawl on a fresh install and people wondering why openSUSE is soooo slow. #21: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2009-02-24 09:10:56) Coolo, I believe this should be done via patterns. #24: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:52:23) (reply to #21) having a desktop search easy to enable sounds like a good to have feature, so I wouldn't simply remove the package from install. But it doesn't make sense on a KDE4 desktop (and it's not there in 11.1 afaik) and it doesn't have to be running by default for GNOME either. But this is something for the beagle maintainers to decide. #25: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-03-04 11:53:33) (reply to #24) that is: it should be off by default (seeing all the votes). But if it's worth to make it easier to turn it on than it is, I leave to those that know. But the solution to enable it, should be within the desktop. #27: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-03-16 18:03:00) Less than "easy way to disable beagle completey during installation" it should even be "disable beagle by default", thank you. #28: Marcel Müller (open_assistant) (2009-03-16 20:32:45) great idea, especially to my slowly pc #30: Gabriel Stein (gabrielstein) (2009-04-03 21:15:44) Totally Agree. I just post on my blog, and I will pay 5 pints of Guinness to the great developer which will do that amazing thing. #31: john andersen (jsamyth) (2009-04-16 20:22:51) I agree Beagle should be an optional item, not installed by default.   There, I've said it.   But an alternative might be to install it and restrict it't indexing BY DEFAULT to the user's home directory, (and perhaps the user's mail spool), and hava a configuration window that allows adding additional directories. That is a feature that might make it more palletable.  But realistically, when this many people arrive at a Future Feature site begging and pleading for a package to dropped from a normal installation you should assume there are some serious flaws with that package.  This site should be about new and improved features we would all like to see, but instead this thread is focused on something that has been rammed down our throats for way too many releases, and which has historically been difficult to remove.   Side issue: Unless you are a Linux Developer there is no point in having it index the entire hard drive.  Your average user has no need of these areas, and experienced users already know where things are, so a generalized indexer that searches the entire disk is a solution looking for a problem. #32: jean-christophe baptiste (phocean) (2009-04-27 11:28:48) Ok for those who want to get an easy way to disable Beagle. But it should be activated by default. I am using Beagle intensively (on Gnome) and I have never got a problem with it. It just rocks and a huge time saver to me. Maybe my hardware is just not obsolete (Core 2 duo laptop)... I think it is the kind of killer app good to show off and that can bring more new users. #33: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-05-12 20:04:51) (reply to #32) you are luky then.. beagle on my pc make them very very slower, it should be disabled by default, if you need it, then you insta/activate it + #34: Marc collin (collinm) (2009-07-04 15:03:05) + Disable it by default, i use kde... and there is alreay a solution for + it.... + + we could also disable mono... -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305296

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[openFATE 305503] zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 04 Jul '09

04 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) Feature #305503, revision 18 Title: zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories openSUSE-11.2: Candidate Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Description: YUM security plugin allows to filter updates showing only ones that mention certain issues. Example: yum update --security yum update --bz 410101 yum update --cve CVE-2007-5707 --advisory RHSA-2007:1082-5 As our patches contains this metadata, we could add similar functionality to zypper. Scope The scope is only for zypper. Other front ends would require some GUI concept first. Open Issues: libzypp's PoolQuery would need support for subattributes (updateinfo. xml references are stored as subarrays) User experience * Adds command line options like the ones described above. Dependencies * libzypp Contingency Plan * Feature is new, so in a bad scenario it can simple be deactivated. Relations: - updateinfo XML scheme (url: http://git.opensuse.org/?p=projects/zypp/libzypp.git;a=blob_plain;f=zypp/pa…) - Tips and tricks: yum-security (url: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) Documentation Impact: New command line options would need to be documented. Test Case: The testing of this feature can be done creating a repository (for example using enhancerepo) containing patches that reference issues, like described in http://en.opensuse.org/Maintenance/Code11/Howto , and then performing updates passing to zypper command line the issues, confirming that only those issues are shown. Use Case: Sysadmin is only interested in particular updates to solve security issues or specific bug numbers or advisories. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: Sysadmins do not update ther systems without a strict process and maximum care. Therefore it is very important to allow them to update the system to fix a single issue. It would save them the time to look that themselves package per package. Discussion: #1: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2008-12-03 14:51:14) Random notes: - CVE-XXXX-YYYY RPM provides after fixing issues? - OVAL relation? #2: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:02:46) (reply to #1) About CVE provides. Right now the CVE information is in the patch (since 11.0). I don't have anything against having it as Fix(CVE-XXX-XXX) provides, but I am not sure if having them in both makes sense. Specially in the case that one issue needs more than one package, you will need to install all packages fixing the issue, and if you have 2 repos with 2 same packages providing the issue, they will conflict. #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:08:13) (reply to #1) I don't have knowledge how OVAL works, may be you can provide some very concrete example scenarios for the feature described above. What I can say is that the reason why the repository/product compatibility and update information in SLE11/openSUSE 11.1 is supported using CPE ( that is, product can contain a CPE id, and repos can tell to which CPE they are compatible and which CPE they update with fixes ) was to enhance our ability to do semantic queries like relate upstream security issues and installed products. OVAL uses CPE as the platform descriptor AFAIK. #4: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) (2008-12-04 14:58:01) adding rpm provides was also my first idea, but that has a side effect: often enough, CVE numbers are not yet known when the package is built and ends up in QA, and editing rpm provides essentially needs a rebuild, which invalidates QA. so preferably we need a way to update the rpm provides without doing a rebuild (bad) or we need a way to add it to the meta information (which is currently generated via patchinfo and where it is also too late). an idealistic approach would be to make sure that we can update this meta information after patchinfo checkin (entering the data into swamp and autobuild fetches that information when the update is released and adds it to the meta info). #5: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-07 15:52:34) This has quite a bit of customer value. BTW, there may be a duplicate out there #6: Michael Andres (mlandres) (2009-07-01 18:33:01) libzypp-6.9.2 supports PoolQuery of subattributes. So one can e.g search for patches with updateReferenceId "CVE-2007-5707', or of updateReferenceType 'bugzilla",... (I'll provide some sample code) @Jano: I'll provide some code example, that tells how to access and iterate the matching updateReferences. So you could start working on zypper. #7: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:10:56) Thanx! I have a question about the reference types. What types do we support? in updateinfo.rnc (see references) i only see bugzilla and cve Do we want separate options for all supported types, like yum has? #9: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:57:19) (reply to #7) Also, i noticed in 11.1 updates repository, that many bugs have a CVE, but it's only in the description, not in the 'reference' metadata. Only bugzilla is in 'reference'. Do we want to address this? #10: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2009-07-03 15:59:21) (reply to #9) we are not emitting it yet. this also needs to be done :/ #8: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:20:18) Suggestion how the commands could look like: $ zypper fix --search [string] $ zypper fix --bugzilla <#> $ zypper fix --cve <#> + #11: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) (2009-07-04 12:11:44) (reply to #8) + Please re-think about introducing another term ( fix ), we already have + * update + * upgrade + * patch -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305503

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[openFATE 303394] arptables support
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 03 Jul '09

03 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) Feature #303394, revision 15 Title: arptables support openSUSE-11.1: Done Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Desirable Requested by: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) Description: The kernel supports ARP firewalling (firewalling based on ARP addresses and mangling of ARP addresses) for hosts and bridges since quite some time. But we don't have a package for the arptables package to configure it on the command line. ARP firewalling would be a nice feature for SLES11. I actually think we used to have one in 10.1 (http://www.novell.com/products/linuxpackages/suselinux/arptables.html) but 10.3 has it dropped. http://ebtables.sourceforge.net/ Discussion: #6: Marius Tomaschewski (mtomaschewski) (2008-09-05 16:31:51) Packaged arptables_jf 0.0.8 as arptables in BETA. Requested "undrop" in pdb. #7: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2009-07-01 19:40:55) reopened for community screening ... seems not done? + #8: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-07-03 19:24:44) (reply to #7) + Seems done wrong ;-) -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/303394

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[openFATE 305503] zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 03 Jul '09

03 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) Feature #305503, revision 17 Title: zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories openSUSE-11.2: Candidate Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Description: YUM security plugin allows to filter updates showing only ones that mention certain issues. Example: yum update --security yum update --bz 410101 yum update --cve CVE-2007-5707 --advisory RHSA-2007:1082-5 As our patches contains this metadata, we could add similar functionality to zypper. Scope The scope is only for zypper. Other front ends would require some GUI concept first. Open Issues: libzypp's PoolQuery would need support for subattributes (updateinfo. xml references are stored as subarrays) User experience * Adds command line options like the ones described above. Dependencies * libzypp Contingency Plan * Feature is new, so in a bad scenario it can simple be deactivated. Relations: - updateinfo XML scheme (url: http://git.opensuse.org/?p=projects/zypp/libzypp.git;a=blob_plain;f=zypp/pa…) - Tips and tricks: yum-security (url: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) Documentation Impact: New command line options would need to be documented. Test Case: The testing of this feature can be done creating a repository (for example using enhancerepo) containing patches that reference issues, like described in http://en.opensuse.org/Maintenance/Code11/Howto , and then performing updates passing to zypper command line the issues, confirming that only those issues are shown. Use Case: Sysadmin is only interested in particular updates to solve security issues or specific bug numbers or advisories. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: Sysadmins do not update ther systems without a strict process and maximum care. Therefore it is very important to allow them to update the system to fix a single issue. It would save them the time to look that themselves package per package. Discussion: #1: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2008-12-03 14:51:14) Random notes: - CVE-XXXX-YYYY RPM provides after fixing issues? - OVAL relation? #2: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:02:46) (reply to #1) About CVE provides. Right now the CVE information is in the patch (since 11.0). I don't have anything against having it as Fix(CVE-XXX-XXX) provides, but I am not sure if having them in both makes sense. Specially in the case that one issue needs more than one package, you will need to install all packages fixing the issue, and if you have 2 repos with 2 same packages providing the issue, they will conflict. #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:08:13) (reply to #1) I don't have knowledge how OVAL works, may be you can provide some very concrete example scenarios for the feature described above. What I can say is that the reason why the repository/product compatibility and update information in SLE11/openSUSE 11.1 is supported using CPE ( that is, product can contain a CPE id, and repos can tell to which CPE they are compatible and which CPE they update with fixes ) was to enhance our ability to do semantic queries like relate upstream security issues and installed products. OVAL uses CPE as the platform descriptor AFAIK. #4: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) (2008-12-04 14:58:01) adding rpm provides was also my first idea, but that has a side effect: often enough, CVE numbers are not yet known when the package is built and ends up in QA, and editing rpm provides essentially needs a rebuild, which invalidates QA. so preferably we need a way to update the rpm provides without doing a rebuild (bad) or we need a way to add it to the meta information (which is currently generated via patchinfo and where it is also too late). an idealistic approach would be to make sure that we can update this meta information after patchinfo checkin (entering the data into swamp and autobuild fetches that information when the update is released and adds it to the meta info). #5: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-07 15:52:34) This has quite a bit of customer value. BTW, there may be a duplicate out there #6: Michael Andres (mlandres) (2009-07-01 18:33:01) libzypp-6.9.2 supports PoolQuery of subattributes. So one can e.g search for patches with updateReferenceId "CVE-2007-5707', or of updateReferenceType 'bugzilla",... (I'll provide some sample code) @Jano: I'll provide some code example, that tells how to access and iterate the matching updateReferences. So you could start working on zypper. #7: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:10:56) Thanx! I have a question about the reference types. What types do we support? in updateinfo.rnc (see references) i only see bugzilla and cve Do we want separate options for all supported types, like yum has? #9: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:57:19) (reply to #7) Also, i noticed in 11.1 updates repository, that many bugs have a CVE, but it's only in the description, not in the 'reference' metadata. Only bugzilla is in 'reference'. Do we want to address this? + #10: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2009-07-03 15:59:21) (reply to #9) + we are not emitting it yet. this also needs to be done :/ #8: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:20:18) Suggestion how the commands could look like: $ zypper fix --search [string] $ zypper fix --bugzilla <#> $ zypper fix --cve <#> -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305503

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[openFATE 305503] zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 03 Jul '09

03 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Ján Kupec (jkupec) Feature #305503, revision 16 Title: zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories openSUSE-11.2: Candidate Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Description: YUM security plugin allows to filter updates showing only ones that mention certain issues. Example: yum update --security yum update --bz 410101 yum update --cve CVE-2007-5707 --advisory RHSA-2007:1082-5 As our patches contains this metadata, we could add similar functionality to zypper. Scope The scope is only for zypper. Other front ends would require some GUI concept first. Open Issues: libzypp's PoolQuery would need support for subattributes (updateinfo. xml references are stored as subarrays) User experience * Adds command line options like the ones described above. Dependencies * libzypp Contingency Plan * Feature is new, so in a bad scenario it can simple be deactivated. Relations: - updateinfo XML scheme (url: http://git.opensuse.org/?p=projects/zypp/libzypp.git;a=blob_plain;f=zypp/pa…) - Tips and tricks: yum-security (url: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) Documentation Impact: New command line options would need to be documented. Test Case: The testing of this feature can be done creating a repository (for example using enhancerepo) containing patches that reference issues, like described in http://en.opensuse.org/Maintenance/Code11/Howto , and then performing updates passing to zypper command line the issues, confirming that only those issues are shown. Use Case: Sysadmin is only interested in particular updates to solve security issues or specific bug numbers or advisories. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: Sysadmins do not update ther systems without a strict process and maximum care. Therefore it is very important to allow them to update the system to fix a single issue. It would save them the time to look that themselves package per package. Discussion: #1: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2008-12-03 14:51:14) Random notes: - CVE-XXXX-YYYY RPM provides after fixing issues? - OVAL relation? #2: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:02:46) (reply to #1) About CVE provides. Right now the CVE information is in the patch (since 11.0). I don't have anything against having it as Fix(CVE-XXX-XXX) provides, but I am not sure if having them in both makes sense. Specially in the case that one issue needs more than one package, you will need to install all packages fixing the issue, and if you have 2 repos with 2 same packages providing the issue, they will conflict. #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:08:13) (reply to #1) I don't have knowledge how OVAL works, may be you can provide some very concrete example scenarios for the feature described above. What I can say is that the reason why the repository/product compatibility and update information in SLE11/openSUSE 11.1 is supported using CPE ( that is, product can contain a CPE id, and repos can tell to which CPE they are compatible and which CPE they update with fixes ) was to enhance our ability to do semantic queries like relate upstream security issues and installed products. OVAL uses CPE as the platform descriptor AFAIK. #4: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) (2008-12-04 14:58:01) adding rpm provides was also my first idea, but that has a side effect: often enough, CVE numbers are not yet known when the package is built and ends up in QA, and editing rpm provides essentially needs a rebuild, which invalidates QA. so preferably we need a way to update the rpm provides without doing a rebuild (bad) or we need a way to add it to the meta information (which is currently generated via patchinfo and where it is also too late). an idealistic approach would be to make sure that we can update this meta information after patchinfo checkin (entering the data into swamp and autobuild fetches that information when the update is released and adds it to the meta info). #5: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-07 15:52:34) This has quite a bit of customer value. BTW, there may be a duplicate out there #6: Michael Andres (mlandres) (2009-07-01 18:33:01) libzypp-6.9.2 supports PoolQuery of subattributes. So one can e.g search for patches with updateReferenceId "CVE-2007-5707', or of updateReferenceType 'bugzilla",... (I'll provide some sample code) @Jano: I'll provide some code example, that tells how to access and iterate the matching updateReferences. So you could start working on zypper. #7: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:10:56) Thanx! I have a question about the reference types. What types do we support? in updateinfo.rnc (see references) i only see bugzilla and cve Do we want separate options for all supported types, like yum has? + #9: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:57:19) (reply to #7) + Also, i noticed in 11.1 updates repository, that many bugs have a CVE, + but it's only in the description, not in the 'reference' metadata. Only + bugzilla is in 'reference'. Do we want to address this? #8: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:20:18) Suggestion how the commands could look like: $ zypper fix --search [string] $ zypper fix --bugzilla <#> $ zypper fix --cve <#> -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305503

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[openFATE 305503] zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 03 Jul '09

03 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Ján Kupec (jkupec) Feature #305503, revision 15 Title: zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories openSUSE-11.2: Candidate Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Description: YUM security plugin allows to filter updates showing only ones that mention certain issues. Example: yum update --security yum update --bz 410101 yum update --cve CVE-2007-5707 --advisory RHSA-2007:1082-5 As our patches contains this metadata, we could add similar functionality to zypper. Scope The scope is only for zypper. Other front ends would require some GUI concept first. Open Issues: libzypp's PoolQuery would need support for subattributes (updateinfo. xml references are stored as subarrays) User experience * Adds command line options like the ones described above. Dependencies * libzypp Contingency Plan * Feature is new, so in a bad scenario it can simple be deactivated. Relations: - updateinfo XML scheme (url: http://git.opensuse.org/?p=projects/zypp/libzypp.git;a=blob_plain;f=zypp/pa…) - Tips and tricks: yum-security (url: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) Documentation Impact: New command line options would need to be documented. Test Case: The testing of this feature can be done creating a repository (for example using enhancerepo) containing patches that reference issues, like described in http://en.opensuse.org/Maintenance/Code11/Howto , and then performing updates passing to zypper command line the issues, confirming that only those issues are shown. Use Case: Sysadmin is only interested in particular updates to solve security issues or specific bug numbers or advisories. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: Sysadmins do not update ther systems without a strict process and maximum care. Therefore it is very important to allow them to update the system to fix a single issue. It would save them the time to look that themselves package per package. Discussion: #1: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2008-12-03 14:51:14) Random notes: - CVE-XXXX-YYYY RPM provides after fixing issues? - OVAL relation? #2: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:02:46) (reply to #1) About CVE provides. Right now the CVE information is in the patch (since 11.0). I don't have anything against having it as Fix(CVE-XXX-XXX) provides, but I am not sure if having them in both makes sense. Specially in the case that one issue needs more than one package, you will need to install all packages fixing the issue, and if you have 2 repos with 2 same packages providing the issue, they will conflict. #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:08:13) (reply to #1) I don't have knowledge how OVAL works, may be you can provide some very concrete example scenarios for the feature described above. What I can say is that the reason why the repository/product compatibility and update information in SLE11/openSUSE 11.1 is supported using CPE ( that is, product can contain a CPE id, and repos can tell to which CPE they are compatible and which CPE they update with fixes ) was to enhance our ability to do semantic queries like relate upstream security issues and installed products. OVAL uses CPE as the platform descriptor AFAIK. #4: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) (2008-12-04 14:58:01) adding rpm provides was also my first idea, but that has a side effect: often enough, CVE numbers are not yet known when the package is built and ends up in QA, and editing rpm provides essentially needs a rebuild, which invalidates QA. so preferably we need a way to update the rpm provides without doing a rebuild (bad) or we need a way to add it to the meta information (which is currently generated via patchinfo and where it is also too late). an idealistic approach would be to make sure that we can update this meta information after patchinfo checkin (entering the data into swamp and autobuild fetches that information when the update is released and adds it to the meta info). #5: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-07 15:52:34) This has quite a bit of customer value. BTW, there may be a duplicate out there #6: Michael Andres (mlandres) (2009-07-01 18:33:01) libzypp-6.9.2 supports PoolQuery of subattributes. So one can e.g search for patches with updateReferenceId "CVE-2007-5707', or of updateReferenceType 'bugzilla",... (I'll provide some sample code) @Jano: I'll provide some code example, that tells how to access and iterate the matching updateReferences. So you could start working on zypper. #7: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:10:56) Thanx! I have a question about the reference types. What types do we support? in updateinfo.rnc (see references) i only see bugzilla and cve Do we want separate options for all supported types, like yum has? + #8: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:20:18) + Suggestion how the commands could look like: + $ zypper fix --search [string] + $ zypper fix --bugzilla <#> + $ zypper fix --cve <#> -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305503

1 0

[openFATE 305503] zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 03 Jul '09

03 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Ján Kupec (jkupec) Feature #305503, revision 14 Title: zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories openSUSE-11.2: Candidate Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Description: YUM security plugin allows to filter updates showing only ones that mention certain issues. Example: yum update --security yum update --bz 410101 yum update --cve CVE-2007-5707 --advisory RHSA-2007:1082-5 As our patches contains this metadata, we could add similar functionality to zypper. Scope The scope is only for zypper. Other front ends would require some GUI concept first. Open Issues: libzypp's PoolQuery would need support for subattributes (updateinfo. xml references are stored as subarrays) User experience * Adds command line options like the ones described above. Dependencies * libzypp Contingency Plan * Feature is new, so in a bad scenario it can simple be deactivated. Relations: + - updateinfo XML scheme (url: http://git.opensuse.org/?p=projects/zypp/libzypp.git;a=blob_plain;f=zypp/pa…) - Tips and tricks: yum-security (url: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) Documentation Impact: New command line options would need to be documented. Test Case: The testing of this feature can be done creating a repository (for example using enhancerepo) containing patches that reference issues, like described in http://en.opensuse.org/Maintenance/Code11/Howto , and then performing updates passing to zypper command line the issues, confirming that only those issues are shown. Use Case: Sysadmin is only interested in particular updates to solve security issues or specific bug numbers or advisories. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: Sysadmins do not update ther systems without a strict process and maximum care. Therefore it is very important to allow them to update the system to fix a single issue. It would save them the time to look that themselves package per package. Discussion: #1: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2008-12-03 14:51:14) Random notes: - CVE-XXXX-YYYY RPM provides after fixing issues? - OVAL relation? #2: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:02:46) (reply to #1) About CVE provides. Right now the CVE information is in the patch (since 11.0). I don't have anything against having it as Fix(CVE-XXX-XXX) provides, but I am not sure if having them in both makes sense. Specially in the case that one issue needs more than one package, you will need to install all packages fixing the issue, and if you have 2 repos with 2 same packages providing the issue, they will conflict. #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:08:13) (reply to #1) I don't have knowledge how OVAL works, may be you can provide some very concrete example scenarios for the feature described above. What I can say is that the reason why the repository/product compatibility and update information in SLE11/openSUSE 11.1 is supported using CPE ( that is, product can contain a CPE id, and repos can tell to which CPE they are compatible and which CPE they update with fixes ) was to enhance our ability to do semantic queries like relate upstream security issues and installed products. OVAL uses CPE as the platform descriptor AFAIK. #4: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) (2008-12-04 14:58:01) adding rpm provides was also my first idea, but that has a side effect: often enough, CVE numbers are not yet known when the package is built and ends up in QA, and editing rpm provides essentially needs a rebuild, which invalidates QA. so preferably we need a way to update the rpm provides without doing a rebuild (bad) or we need a way to add it to the meta information (which is currently generated via patchinfo and where it is also too late). an idealistic approach would be to make sure that we can update this meta information after patchinfo checkin (entering the data into swamp and autobuild fetches that information when the update is released and adds it to the meta info). #5: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-07 15:52:34) This has quite a bit of customer value. BTW, there may be a duplicate out there #6: Michael Andres (mlandres) (2009-07-01 18:33:01) libzypp-6.9.2 supports PoolQuery of subattributes. So one can e.g search for patches with updateReferenceId "CVE-2007-5707', or of updateReferenceType 'bugzilla",... (I'll provide some sample code) @Jano: I'll provide some code example, that tells how to access and iterate the matching updateReferences. So you could start working on zypper. + #7: Ján Kupec (jkupec) (2009-07-03 15:10:56) + Thanx! I have a question about the reference types. What types do we + support? in updateinfo.rnc (see references) i only see bugzilla and + cve + Do we want separate options for all supported types, like yum has? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305503

1 0

[openFATE 306640] Enhancing po-mode (Emacs Add-On)
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 03 Jul '09

03 Jul '09

Feature added by: Karl Eichwalder (keichwa) Feature #306640, revision 1 Title: Enhancing po-mode (Emacs Add-On) Hackweek IV: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Karl Eichwalder (keichwa) Description: This is part of "Make Emacs a Better Translation Tool" started during the hack week in June 2007. For more information, see http://idea.opensuse.org/content/ideas/make-emacs-a-better-translation-tool… -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306640

1 0

[openFATE 306620] Possibility to skip filesystem check at startup
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 02 Jul '09

02 Jul '09

Feature added by: Dominik Grafenhofer (dgrafenhofer) Feature #306620, revision 1 Title: Possibility to skip filesystem check at startup openSUSE-11.2: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Dominik Grafenhofer (dgrafenhofer) Description: Periodic filesystem checks at startup are important, but take a lot of time. For desktop users it is sometimes importent to startup their computer really fast (e.g. when giving a presentation). It is a nuissance, that these filesystem checks cannot be easily skipped (and postponed for the next startup) like under Ubuntu. Analogous to Ubuntu Linux I therefore propose to have a mechanism in place to stop a (periodic) filesystem check at startup when the escape key is pressed during the check. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306620

1 1

[openFATE 305623] Remove gnomesu dependancies from YaST
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 01 Jul '09

01 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Jared Allen (jpallen) Feature #305623, revision 10 Title: Remove gnomesu dependancies from YaST openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) Description: The Gnome team informs me gnomesu is obsoleted. We need to stop depending on gnomesu on YaST, ideally moving towards PolicyKit as much as possible but at a minimum matching the current mainline Gnome behavior. Discussion: #5: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2009-06-02 11:43:54) The only dependency I found is the yast2-control-center-gnome package; Jared, can you handle it? + #6: Jared Allen (jpallen) (2009-07-01 17:09:54) (reply to #5) + Yes, we'll need to look into an alternative. I'm not sure that + PolicyKit itself is enough to replace the functionality of gnomesu. + I'll ask Gabriel to look into this. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305623

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[openFATE 305299] Port kio_fuse to KDE4
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 01 Jul '09

01 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Todd R (TheBlackCat) Feature #305299, revision 7 Title: Port kio_fuse to KDE4 openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Desirable Requested by: JP Rosevear (jproseve) Description: Enable kio mounted file systems to be exposed via fuse by getting kio_fuse to work on KDE4. Relations: - Integrate fuse based permanent mounting (feature/id: 300613) Discussion: #1: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-06-05 14:34:38) JP, what would be the benefit? Please add to the description. + #2: Todd R (theblackcat) (2009-07-01 23:31:24) + I think the main benefit would be that applications that do not support + kio (most non-KDE apps) would still be able to see the + files. Presently this is not possible. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305299

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[openFATE 304879] OOo: Update of KDE integration to KDE4
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 01 Jul '09

01 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Stephan Binner (Beineri) Feature #304879, revision 81 Title: OOo: Update of KDE integration to KDE4 openSUSE-11.1: Rejected by JP Rosevear (jproseve) reject date: 2008-08-15 11:47:35 reject reason: As per PM recommendation. Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Stephan Binner (beineri) Description: The current OOo KDE integration (file dialogs, addressbook, interface/icon theme,...) is based on KDE3. As openSUSE 11.1/SLED 11 will likely not include KDE3 anymore it has to be upgraded to KDE4. Use Case: I will find this is really usefull. Discussion: #1: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-06-13 09:54:23) There are far too many mandatory OOo features. Please reevaluate - it's unlikely that we won't ship KDE3 apps in SLED11 #2: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) (2008-06-13 13:25:48) (reply to #1) we will ship KDE3 libs, yes. that doesn't mean that we desire to have KDE3 app dependencies ;) #7: Rajesh Ganesan (ganesanrajesh) (2009-01-07 03:20:08) Well, an excellent idea and most expected too. But (http://kde.openoffice.org/) seems struck at March 2006 itself. Any plans(or chance) of revival? #8: Armin Moradi (amoradi) (2009-01-19 19:30:45) Excellent idea, again, this brings up the consistency issue with the rest of KDE4. #9: Ruurd Pels (rfpels) (2009-03-06 22:40:10) Seems to me now that we have 4.2 in FACTORY for 11.1 we can create and release an integration package there so we will be ready by the time SLES11 goes gold. #10: jimbo bigcreed (dimble_thricefoon) (2009-06-04 16:26:13) this would be nice for 11.2 #11: Karsten König (remur) (2009-06-15 15:23:55) Good news everybody! http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~kendy/blog/archives/monthly/2009-06.html#2… (Just for tracking, most openfate users propably have seen this by now on planetsuse) #12: jimbo bigcreed (dimble_thricefoon) (2009-06-16 18:41:27) (reply to #11) dot.kde http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3983 KDE4 integration done by the kubuntu boys + #13: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-07-01 20:17:03) (reply to #12) + An early OpenOffice_org-kde4 package exists in Factory so this should + be change to Candidate. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/304879

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[openFATE 303394] arptables support
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 01 Jul '09

01 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) Feature #303394, revision 14 Title: arptables support openSUSE-11.1: Done Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Desirable Requested by: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) Description: The kernel supports ARP firewalling (firewalling based on ARP addresses and mangling of ARP addresses) for hosts and bridges since quite some time. But we don't have a package for the arptables package to configure it on the command line. ARP firewalling would be a nice feature for SLES11. I actually think we used to have one in 10.1 (http://www.novell.com/products/linuxpackages/suselinux/arptables.html) but 10.3 has it dropped. http://ebtables.sourceforge.net/ Discussion: #6: Marius Tomaschewski (mtomaschewski) (2008-09-05 16:31:51) Packaged arptables_jf 0.0.8 as arptables in BETA. Requested "undrop" in pdb. + #7: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2009-07-01 19:40:55) + reopened for community screening ... seems not done? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/303394

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[openFATE 305503] zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 01 Jul '09

01 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Michael Andres (mlandres) Feature #305503, revision 13 Title: zypper: allow update by issues/bugs/advisories openSUSE-11.2: Candidate Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Description: YUM security plugin allows to filter updates showing only ones that mention certain issues. Example: yum update --security yum update --bz 410101 yum update --cve CVE-2007-5707 --advisory RHSA-2007:1082-5 As our patches contains this metadata, we could add similar functionality to zypper. Scope The scope is only for zypper. Other front ends would require some GUI concept first. Open Issues: libzypp's PoolQuery would need support for subattributes (updateinfo. xml references are stored as subarrays) User experience * Adds command line options like the ones described above. Dependencies * libzypp Contingency Plan * Feature is new, so in a bad scenario it can simple be deactivated. Relations: - Tips and tricks: yum-security (url: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/01/16/tips-and-tricks-yum-security/) Documentation Impact: New command line options would need to be documented. Test Case: The testing of this feature can be done creating a repository (for example using enhancerepo) containing patches that reference issues, like described in http://en.opensuse.org/Maintenance/Code11/Howto , and then performing updates passing to zypper command line the issues, confirming that only those issues are shown. Use Case: Sysadmin is only interested in particular updates to solve security issues or specific bug numbers or advisories. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: Sysadmins do not update ther systems without a strict process and maximum care. Therefore it is very important to allow them to update the system to fix a single issue. It would save them the time to look that themselves package per package. Discussion: #1: Marcus Meissner (msmeissn) (2008-12-03 14:51:14) Random notes: - CVE-XXXX-YYYY RPM provides after fixing issues? - OVAL relation? #2: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:02:46) (reply to #1) About CVE provides. Right now the CVE information is in the patch (since 11.0). I don't have anything against having it as Fix(CVE-XXX-XXX) provides, but I am not sure if having them in both makes sense. Specially in the case that one issue needs more than one package, you will need to install all packages fixing the issue, and if you have 2 repos with 2 same packages providing the issue, they will conflict. #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-12-03 16:08:13) (reply to #1) I don't have knowledge how OVAL works, may be you can provide some very concrete example scenarios for the feature described above. What I can say is that the reason why the repository/product compatibility and update information in SLE11/openSUSE 11.1 is supported using CPE ( that is, product can contain a CPE id, and repos can tell to which CPE they are compatible and which CPE they update with fixes ) was to enhance our ability to do semantic queries like relate upstream security issues and installed products. OVAL uses CPE as the platform descriptor AFAIK. #4: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) (2008-12-04 14:58:01) adding rpm provides was also my first idea, but that has a side effect: often enough, CVE numbers are not yet known when the package is built and ends up in QA, and editing rpm provides essentially needs a rebuild, which invalidates QA. so preferably we need a way to update the rpm provides without doing a rebuild (bad) or we need a way to add it to the meta information (which is currently generated via patchinfo and where it is also too late). an idealistic approach would be to make sure that we can update this meta information after patchinfo checkin (entering the data into swamp and autobuild fetches that information when the update is released and adds it to the meta info). #5: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-07 15:52:34) This has quite a bit of customer value. BTW, there may be a duplicate out there + #6: Michael Andres (mlandres) (2009-07-01 18:33:01) + libzypp-6.9.2 supports PoolQuery of subattributes. So one can e.g + search for patches with updateReferenceId "CVE-2007-5707', or of + updateReferenceType 'bugzilla",... (I'll provide some sample code) + @Jano: I'll provide some code example, that tells how to access and + iterate the matching updateReferences. So you could start working on + zypper. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305503

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[openFATE 306605] openSUSE Server Edition
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 01 Jul '09

01 Jul '09

Feature added by: Joe Brockmeier (jbrockmeier) Feature #306605, revision 1 Title: openSUSE Server Edition Requested by: Joe Brockmeier (jbrockmeier) Description: Define and create an openSUSE "Server Edition" that contains the necessary packages for a home / LAMP server. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306605

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[openFATE 305547] Support for ECDSA in yast2 ca_mgm
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 01 Jul '09

01 Jul '09

Feature changed by: Vit Pelcak (vpelcak) Feature #305547, revision 7 Title: Support for ECDSA in yast2 ca_mgm openSUSE-11.2: New Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: Vit Pelcak (vpelcak) Description: It would be good if yast2 ca_mgm supported ECDSA keys. This feature is necessary to support RFC 4869. Currently only RSA is supported. Discussion: #1: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-06-09 14:22:26) What is the advantage here? From the description I'm not seeing any benefit of implementing this. + #2: Vit Pelcak (vpelcak) (2009-07-01 08:24:04) (reply to #1) + This feature request came out from discussion with Marius Tomaschewski + when I was testing one feature about ipsec, IKEv2 and ECDSA in RFC + 4869. + We came to conclusion that it would be good if it would be implemented + in Yast2. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305547

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