May 2009 - openSUSE Features - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[openFATE 305888] Disable PulseAudio by default
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 06 Oct '09

06 Oct '09

Feature added by: Stephan Kulow (coolo) Feature #305888, revision 1, last change by Title: Disable PulseAudio by default openSUSE-11.2: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: Alberto Passalacqua (albertop) Description: PulseAudio has been one of the major sources of complaints and of problems for both the 11.0 and 11.1 release, with significant annoyances for openSUSE users, as reported on IRC and on local forums. As a consequence it is worth to consider the possibility to disable it by default on freshly installed systems for openSUSE 11.2. This enhancement request aims to collect the votes of those who agree with this. According to a discussion in IRC with coolo, if there are enough requests, this might be done. So, please, if you want to see PA disabled by default, in favour of a working audio system out of the box for many more users, just comment here. Relations: - Disable PulseAudio by default (novell/bugzilla/id: 478511) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=478511 Discussion: #1: Criss Peress (pieris) (2009-02-22 12:52:19) +1 #2: Jakub Rusinek (liviopl) (2009-02-22 13:31:25) You should have a look at what Lennart says on pulseaudio-discuss list [1], 'cause this might be important for openSUSE. 1| https://tango.0pointer.de/pipermail/pulseaudio-discuss/2009-February/003150… #3: Luigi Bettin (gigi888) (2009-02-22 13:55:58) +1 #4: Alberto Passalacqua (albertop) (2009-02-22 14:23:28) On comment #2: that has nothing to do with this discussion. Please keep it on topic! Fedora, cited in the link as the distribution doing something in the suggested direction, has similar complaints to those we had for openSUSE 11.0 and 11.1. Bye, A. #5: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-02-22 16:57:39) +1 for me #6: andrea martin (il_cjargnel) (2009-02-22 23:54:03) +1 for me (no pulse audio of default in 11.2) #7: Takashi Iwai (tiwai) (2009-02-23 01:07:08) Guys, the bugzilla is no place for voting or discussions, and it's no user forum. It's the place to report a bug and fix the bug. Please vote/discuss on ML at first. Then report back the result to bugzilla as the consensus of the whole community. Thanks. #8: Sven Burmeister (rabauke) (2009-02-23 04:28:01) I do not see any discussion here. Enabling pa by default can be regarded as a bug and not doing so as an enhancement people vote on. Bugzilla is about bugs/enhancements (not features) and voting. #9: Alberto Passalacqua (albertop) (2009-02-23 07:22:54) In answer to comment #7: This is an enhancement request, and bugzilla is exactly the place where this kind of discussion, to collect votes for it. Further discussion happened in the IRC anyway, and this bug report was opened as a consequence of it to collect user's feedback in a clean and organized manner, so that the decisionmaker can decide without reading an endless discussion in a mailing-list. As a consequence I reopen it. Regards, A. #10: Alberto Passalacqua (albertop) (2009-02-23 07:26:33) @Takashi Iwai: You might want to take part to the IRC life of openSUSE and discuss with us. Any suggestion/help is welcome! :-) #11: Takashi Iwai (tiwai) (2009-02-23 07:43:54) Could you give the exact voting result here? (And, no I'm not going to join IRC just for this purpose.) The vote must be done in an open way, and needs to take from a wide range of voters (users) without bias. Voting in bugzilla doesn't make sense for this kind of issue because the bugzilla (a specific bug entry) isn't the place where every user takes a look. It's the place where the people with the same problems take a look. Thus, of course, it will result in votes just by haters. Also, the endless discussion in ML is the result you have to respect. If there is no clear sign in the discussions in ML, it means there is no clear way to go, too. The rest is the political decision, and not about technical ones (remember KDE vs GNOME). So, please give more concrete technical issues rather than emotional +1/-1 votes. #12: Michael Skiba (mirrakor) (2009-02-23 10:03:31) > So, please give more concrete technical issues rather than emotional +1/-1 votes. There's nothing emotional about it. > It's the place where the people with the same problems take a look. Thus, of course, it will result in votes just by haters. Which is exactly the point - this isn't an open "opinion poll" it's about messuring how big the disturbances/problems (->bug) with PA really is, and if it affects enough people it's worth thinking about disabling it by default. #13: Alberto Passalacqua (albertop) (2009-02-23 10:07:28) Hi Takashi, the result of the voting, done with the usual procedure to vote bugs and requests, can be read at the top of the page. Currently this request has 27 votes. Each user can give a maximum of five votes. I probably wasn't clear in the initial post. We discussed to disable PA on IRC, and coolo suggested that is can be done if there is a sufficient number of requests. I don't know what "sufficient" means, but I thought it would have been easier to collect the votes in a quantitative manner here, using bugzilla features. I think it is important to notice that I'm not asking to remove PulseAudio, but to simply disable it by default, so that users don't meet the problems it is causing to them. PulseAudio can be already be disabled with one click in YaST, and the same can done to enable it again. My idea is that we should not activate it by default, because for 11.0 and 11.1 releases we had quite a lot of complaints due to it. Users who want it will be able to enable it with a simple click, but the new unexperienced user won't have to fight to make it work to listen to his music, which will result in a better image of the distribution that "works out of the box" and at the same time provides "the latest stack" for those who want/need it. The concrete technical issues are the following (I sum up what reported): - PA audio glitches often. - It gives troubles with Flash and other players, which capture the server, making other applications unable to work correctly. - It crashes, leaving you without controls on the audio system (Connection refused). - It doesn't work properly with some player and sound tool (someone reported issues with audacity, skype (I know it's skype problem but people wants to use it) gives problems too). Anyway, if you prefer, we can post the link on the ML to make it available to a wider public. I simply fear it will become noisy. I already spread it on IRC when I opened the request. P.S. My invitation on IRC was friendly. If you don't like it, there is no problem. But I'm serious when I say that suggestions are welcome. After all we are here to improve things, and not to fight between us :-) Regards, Alberto #14: Daniele Tombolini (kailed) (2009-02-23 11:47:18) +1 at least, under kde is unuseful. #15: Takashi Iwai (tiwai) (2009-02-23 12:11:37) OK, then I reassign this bug to coolo. Please reassign back after the decision is made. My position is neutral about this. I myself don't use PA, and I won't. But I do understand that some (other) people want PA as default, too. #16: alberto rossi (al9000) (2009-02-23 12:13:09) no to pulseaudio by default in opensuse 11.2 #17: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2009-02-23 13:17:47) This is discussion about this enhancement request: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2009-02/msg00208.html #18: Alberto Passalacqua (albertop) (2009-02-23 13:21:34) FYI, opened a discussion here so the interested people can say their opinion and we can collect more feedback: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2009-02/msg00208.html A. #19: Vincent Untz (vuntz) (2009-02-23 14:47:36) Stupid question, if people think that the votes on this bug can be taken into account for the decision: how can people vote to keep pulseaudio? IMHO, bugzilla is not the right place for this -- this is not an enhancement request, this is a technical decision. Starting a thread on opensuse-factory was a good thing, though :-) #20: Andras Barna (sartek) (2009-02-23 19:59:13) for me alsa worked perfectly, so why change it.. so +1 #21: Jigish Gohil (cyberorg) (2009-02-23 22:45:22) Can we get kernel people look into the points raised in link posted on comment #2? https://tango.0pointer.de/pipermail/pulseaudio-discuss/2009-February/003150… Quoting relevant parts from that post for everyone's benefit here. "Apparently OpenSUSE ships a kernel (2.6.27.7-9-pae) that causes scheduling latencies of > 210ms. That is a lot. That is really really really a lot." "Fedora-kernels that easily give latencies of 5ms or so." "1) For fucks sakes: get your bloody kernels fixed. Enable preempt, set HZ to 1000. Get rid of low-quality drivers that block the CPU. Latencies of 210ms is *REALLY NOT NECESSARY*. 2) If you want to stick with your crap kernel, then either disable g-f entirely or adjust the #defines at the top of src/modules/alsa-sink.c and src/modules/alsa-source.c." So why do our kernel suck so bad? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305888

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[openFATE 306364] Live-CD: Start of Installer Without Desktop
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 01 Oct '09

01 Oct '09

Feature added by: Stephan Binner (Beineri) Feature #306364, revision 1, last change by Title: Live-CD: Start of Installer Without Desktop openSUSE-11.2: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Stephan Binner (beineri) Description: It should be possible to start the Live-CD installer directly from boot menu on low-memory systems without having to load a complete desktop. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306364

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[openFATE 305845] YaST - keyword search for modules
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 30 Sep '09

30 Sep '09

Feature added by: Pavol Rusnak (prusnak) Feature #305845, revision 1, last change by Title: YaST - keyword search for modules openSUSE-11.2: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Pavol Rusnak (prusnak) Description: System Preferences in Mac OS X (YaST equivalent from Apple :)) has a group of keywords associated with each module. It would be nice if YaST had the same. Example: * module: Hardware -> Graphics Card and Monitor * keywords: graphics, monitor, screen, resolution, ... When user wants to change the resolution, he/she starts YaST, type "resolution" in search box and "Graphics Card and Monitor" module will show up. This is not possible now, because YaST only searches in descriptions of modules. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305845

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[openFATE 306305] iFolder for openSUSE 11.2
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 28 Sep '09

28 Sep '09

Feature added by: Michael Löffler (michl19) Feature #306305, revision 1, last change by Title: iFolder for openSUSE 11.2 openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Michael Löffler (michl19) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Getting iFolder in a state where we first can get it into Factory and then add it to openSUSE 11.2. iFolder is a simple and secure storage solution that increases productivity by enabling to back up, access and manage personal files-from anywhere, at any time. Once installed, it simply saves files locally and iFolder automatically updates the files on a network server and delivers them to a different machines in usage. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: Different people at different locations can work jointly on the same file. They always can find on the server the most current version of the file as iFolder keeps it up to date. iFolder allows more efficient collaboration -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306305

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[openFate 305343] Partitioner: Support RAID10
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 25 Sep '09

25 Sep '09

Feature added by: Arvin Schnell <aschnell(a)novell.com> Feature #305343, revision 1, last change by Title: Partitioner: Support RAID10 openSUSE-11.2: New Priority Requester: Important SLES-12: New Priority Requester: Important Requested by: V K <truckk(a)inbox.lv> Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: There is interesting raid-10 config on 2 disks witch can be created like that: mdadm --create /dev/md1 --bitmap=internal --metadata=1.0 --level=raid10 --raid-devices=2 --layout=f2 /dev/sda2 /dev/sdb2 such configuration gives about 2x sequential read performance in comparison with plain raid-1 partitioner shows only RAID Type: RAID_UNKNOWN. Discussion: #1: Arvin Schnell <aschnell(a)novell.com> (2008-10-17 04:05:48) I know, same is true for RAID6. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=305343

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[openFate 305631] vlan support in initrd
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 15 Sep '09

15 Sep '09

Feature added by: Bernhard Walle <bwalle(a)novell.com> Feature #305631, revision 1, last change by Title: vlan support in initrd openSUSE-11.2: New Requested by: Bernhard Walle (bwalle) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Quoting from Bugzilla 415389 (because external reporters are not able to create a FATE entry): It would be very useful to be able to create vlan network interfaces in initrd via kernel command line parameters. This makes network support in initrd more complete. In our case we need vlan support because all servers have two physical network interfaces. eth0 is connected to the default vlan, which is internet in our case. eth1 is a trunk interface connected to several internal vlans. We need the vlans to seperate traffic from different virtual machines. Only one vlan supports nfs, other vlans are more restricted or private to a customer owning a virtual machine. Because a xen dom0 server doesn't need much diskspace, we boot them from the network. This requires the initrd to login to the nfs server, which requires vlan support. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: I don't see any business case here. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=305631

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[openFate 305594] Logging support for osc meta and others ...
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 14 Sep '09

14 Sep '09

Feature added by: Pavol Rusnak <prusnak(a)novell.com> Feature #305594, revision 1, last change by Title: Logging support for osc meta and others ... Buildservice: New Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Pavol Rusnak <prusnak(a)novell.com> Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: * The logging support missing for osc meta and other potentially dangerous ctions. When anyone changes a project conf for example, there's no information who changed what. So the current commit logs support should be extended to all other changes in package/project. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=305594

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[openFATE 306307] Include Gwibber in GNOME 11.2
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Sep '09

07 Sep '09

Feature added by: Kevin Dupuy (kdupuy9) Feature #306307, revision 1, last change by Title: Include Gwibber in GNOME 11.2 openSUSE-11.2: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Kevin Dupuy (kdupuy9) Description: With the explosion in use of microblogging in everything from Facebook to Twitter, more and more people are looking for a way to view all their friends and followers messages, as well as get their messages out quickly. I propose openSUSE includes Gwibber in the default install of openSUSE GNOME. Gwibber is a microblogging client written in GTK and supports Twitter, Facebook, Jaiku, Laconi.ca servers, Flickr, and more. More info at https://launchpad.net/gwibber -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306307

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[openFate 305731] Remove scrollkeeper
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Sep '09

07 Sep '09

Feature added by: Vincent Untz (vuntz) Feature #305731, revision 1, last change by Title: Remove scrollkeeper openSUSE-11.2: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Vincent Untz (vuntz) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: We should remove scrollkeeper from the distribution and only use a rarian-based solution. This implies working upstream on migrating the modules. Also, we could make packages install their help in /usr/share/datatir/gnome-panel/help (eg), instead of /usr/share/gnome/help which is difficult to handle from a package ownership point of view. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=305731

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[openFate 305345] Replace cups-autoconfig with hal-cups-utils
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 07 Sep '09

07 Sep '09

Feature added by: Vincent Untz <vuntz(a)novell.com> Feature #305345, revision 1, last change by Title: Replace cups-autoconfig with hal-cups-utils openSUSE-11.2: New Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Vincent Untz <vuntz(a)novell.com> Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: In openSUSE, we use cups-autoconfig to automatically configure new printers detected by HAL. However, no other distro uses this, and hal-cups-utils seems to be the long-term solution. Switching to hal-cups-utils means easier maintenance for us. hal-cups-utils also ships the hal backend for cups that we have in cups-backends. I've packaged a new cups-backends package (without the hal backend) and a hal-cups-utils package (with the hal backend, patched like what we had in cups-backends) in home:vuntz:factory-playground. So it's all ready for testing. Note: yast2-printer makes it possible to edit /etc/cups-autoconfig.conf. We might want to keep the configuration option of /etc/cups-autoconfig.conf in hal-cups-utils. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=305345

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